"Slave" disadvantage?
Lewis W Beard
What slave-oriented disadvantages are appropriate?
Duty, all the time, not but not usually risky?
A low social status?
What high-tech and low-tech technology is out there
that could help enforce the status, and what disads
would that create?
Recommendations?
Lewis
--
Lewis W Beard, #1369, Connoisseur Of The GDS, http://lwb.org, le...@lwb.org
'The chief problem about death, incidentally, is the fear that there may
be no afterlife -- a depressing thought, particularly for those who have
bothered to shave.' - Woody Allen
Dr Nuncheon
Generally, Social Stigma: Property (-15 pts IIRC) would cover almost
everything: the lack of legal rights, etc. A Duty isn't generally
appropriate because, as you point out, a slave's life is usually not that
risky, and there's no disad points given for "normal" jobs.
Negative Status is also a good idea.
>What high-tech and low-tech technology is out there
>that could help enforce the status, and what disads
>would that create?
Slave-owning societies might mark their slaves in much the same way that
people mark other posessions. This could range from a brand somewhere on
the body to an implanted microchip.
I generally wouldn't give extra points for this, because Social Stigma
assumes that the cause of the stigma is obvious (and when the cause is not
obvious, a Secret is generally more appropriate, as for a woman
masquerading as a man in a time where being female was a Social Stigma).
Magical or high-tech societies might also mess with the slave's minds,
creating "willing" servants - this could be any number of disadvantages,
from Sense of Duty to a full-blown Slave Mentality.
J
--
"Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation" Jeff Johnston
yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation. jeffj @ io.com
StevenA201
>creating "willing" servants - this could be any number of disadvantages,
>from Sense of Duty to a full-blown Slave Mentality.
In actual history, frequent beating was all it took.
Peter Knutsen
Lewis W Beard wrote:
>
> What slave-oriented disadvantages are appropriate?
>
> Duty, all the time, not but not usually risky?
In some societies, slaves are extremely cheap, and the owners can
do whatever they wish. So if the slave makes a single, small mistake,
he or she gets killed, either swiftly or slowly. How is that not
risky?
> Lewis
--
Peter Knutsen
Lord Bradmont
subjugation.
On Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:31:11 GMT, Lewis W Beard <le...@lwb.org> wrote:
>All,
>
>What slave-oriented disadvantages are appropriate?
>
>Duty, all the time, not but not usually risky?
>A low social status?
>What high-tech and low-tech technology is out there
>that could help enforce the status, and what disads
>would that create?
>
>Recommendations?
>
>Lewis
>
>--
>Lewis W Beard, #1369, Connoisseur Of The GDS, http://lwb.org, le...@lwb.org
> 'The chief problem about death, incidentally, is the fear that there may
> be no afterlife -- a depressing thought, particularly for those who have
> bothered to shave.' - Woody Allen
Lord Bradmont
brad...@earthling.net
Dr Nuncheon
To produce a disadvantage on the level of the GURPS Slave Mentality? I'd
have to see a source to believe that. Also note the word "willing"...
PJS
>
>
>Lewis W Beard wrote:
>>
>> What slave-oriented disadvantages are appropriate?
>>
>> Duty, all the time, not but not usually risky?
>
>do whatever they wish. So if the slave makes a single, small mistake,
>he or she gets killed, either swiftly or slowly. How is that not
>risky?
Bah. For "some societies" read "some films and novels".
---
Puritanism - the haunting fear that someone, somewhere
may be happy.
- H.L. Mencken
WHUTAGUY
>do whatever they wish. So if the slave makes a single, small mistake,
>he or she gets killed, either swiftly or slowly. How is that not
>risky?
--------------
Which societies? Locations, dates, references. And bear in mind that a
reference that a King killed some slaves for petty mistakes doesn't mean it was
ok in that society.
Of course I'm crazy, but that doesn't make me wrong
http://members.aol.com/WHUTAGUY/index.html updated 25 February 99.
Also http://www.geocities.com/area51/comet/5234 updated 25 February 99.
New!! http://members.about.com/whutaguy
Ryan Williams
groups had the disadvantage, though the cost could be modified for how
obvious it is you are of the enslaved class (using the recognition modifiers
from reputation).
Is this an attempt by SJG to avoid a delicate issue?
Lord Bradmont <b@e.n> wrote in message news:380d489...@news.ark.com...
WHUTAGUY
>Anyone know why subjugation is a racial disadvantage.
I think this disadvantage was presented in Aliens and/or fantasy folk, and does
not refer to negro versus caucasion, or other races of humans. It refers
instead to things like Wookies being slaves to the empire.
Some historical
>groups had the disadvantage, though the cost could be modified for how
>obvious it is you are of the enslaved class (using the recognition modifiers
>from reputation).
There is a social stigma of "property" and for a real stigma, it should be
obvious to all in that culture.
>
>Is this an attempt by SJG to avoid a delicate issue?
>
I dont think so, but why drag out delicates if you do not have to.
Whut
Ryan Patrick Crisp
>
> >In some societies, slaves are extremely cheap, and the owners can
> >do whatever they wish. So if the slave makes a single, small mistake,
> >he or she gets killed, either swiftly or slowly. How is that not
> >risky?
> --------------
>
> Which societies? Locations, dates, references. And bear in mind that a
> reference that a King killed some slaves for petty mistakes doesn't mean it was
> ok in that society.
I think in some areas of Latin America in the sixteenth, seventeenth,
and eighteenth centuries you had a situation which may have come close
to this. Those sugar plantations in the caribbean were not fun places,
and slaves weren't that expensive. I'm not saying that slaves were
killed all the time at the whim of their owners - makes for a bad
business - but I'm not sure there were many restrictions on what you
could do with your slaves, or if there were they were not well enforced.
--
Ryan Patrick Crisp "Ius esse belli ut
Graduate Associate qui vicissent iis
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230 W. 17th Ave -- Ariovistus
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prei...@my-deja.com
> What slave-oriented disadvantages are appropriate?
These will vary widely depending on the situation.
IMHO, Involuntary Duty is probably the only one that's always
appropriate - a slave is only kept so by force (of some sort) or threat
of force.
The specifics will vary - it may be all the time (personal attendant),
hazardous (gladiator), infrequent (chess tutor for a child - any other
time is mostly free), and so on.
Social Stigma will often be appropriate, but certainly not always -
slaves need not be recognizeable as such, and need not be looked down
upon (IIRC, a class of soldier-beaurocrat-slaves in Persia or
thereabouts ran the government for some time around the middle ages).
Be careful about what a Social Stigma means - anything like "Personal
Property" requires that that be immediately obvious and cause
significant dislike, but is a strictly social disadvantage - it says
nothing about your duties, for example.
Low status may be appropriate, but need not be - a scholar-slave may
have quite a high status.
Poverty again may or may not be appropriate.
Disadvantages like Weak Will may come from some conditioning processes,
if such are used.
Some owners could be Patrons.
General methods for making slaves obey probably focussed around making
the alternative less pleasant, whether by increasing the appeal of
obeying or by decreasing the appeal of not obeying. There's lots of
ways to do each.
-P
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dr Kromm
> Anyone know why subjugation is a racial disadvantage. Some historical
> groups had the disadvantage, though the cost could be modified for how
> obvious it is you are of the enslaved class (using the recognition modifiers
> from reputation).
If a species is enslaved, Subjugation goes on the racial template. If an
ethnic group smaller than a species is enslaved, Social Stigma goes on the
character sheet of people from that ethnic group. Subjugation defines a
(negative) relationship between two biologically distinct species; Social
Stigma defines an admittedly similar relationship between members of the
same species. The distinction is required because of the way many social
ads, disads, and skills -- especially those that give reaction modifiers
-- work differently across species lines than they do among members of the
same species. (It's one thing to enslave your brother man, another to
enslave the three-eyed, red amphibids of Zorgon-4 who you aren't even sure
are sentient and who emit pheromones that make humans aggressive. This
makes things quite different for the slaves in question as well.)
> Is this an attempt by SJG to avoid a delicate issue?
No. We probably wouldn't list Eunuch, Intolerance, Megalomania, Social
Stigma, etc., if we felt that way.
Kromm.
--
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch, GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
[POST] 4122 rue Rivard, Montreal, Quebec, CANADA, H2L 4H9
[PHONE] 514.288.9600 / [VOICE MAIL & FAX] 514.288.9615
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Amber, Dan, DARE, or Julie
>
> Anyone know why subjugation is a racial disadvantage. Some historical
> groups had the disadvantage, though the cost could be modified for how
> obvious it is you are of the enslaved class (using the recognition modifiers
> from reputation).
What they meant by racial disad is that it's not an individual disad.
Subjugation means that you're a member of a group that is subjugated,
rather than personally happening to be a slave(cf this very thread for
ways to represent that in GURPS :).
- DARE, GURPSist extraordinaire and plenipotentiary
* 4 out of 5 people think the 5th person is an idiot.
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Phillip Ames
wrote:
>Peter Knutsen wrote in message <380D0BC4...@knutsen.dk>...
>>
>>
>>Lewis W Beard wrote:
>>>
>>> What slave-oriented disadvantages are appropriate?
>>>
>>> Duty, all the time, not but not usually risky?
>>
>>In some societies, slaves are extremely cheap, and the owners can
>>do whatever they wish. So if the slave makes a single, small mistake,
>>he or she gets killed, either swiftly or slowly. How is that not
>>risky?
>--------------
>Bah. For "some societies" read "some films and novels".
>
>---
I recall a reference...can't remember a source, to the effect that
identured servants tended to get more of the shit jobs than slaves, on
the basis that they weren't going to be around for long, so you might
as well get as much use as you can. Not to say that slaves were
treated WELL, but...
Phil
Jessie
etc.
Patron: Owner for a liberal kind of slavery with a kind owner.
Lord Bradmont <b@e.n> wrote in message news:380d489...@news.ark.com...
> If you're a member of a slave race, you probibally would just take
> subjugation.
>
> >
> >Duty, all the time, not but not usually risky?