Deadly Sins of GMing
Bill Seurer
I was at a game convention this past weekend and I played in an RPG event
that had a lot of potential. Well, it was fun but the GM did something
that really irked me and after thinking about it a while I decided that it
was probably one of the Deadly Sins of GMing.
Deadly Sin #1: Don't send one of your own reely kool characters with the
PCs. Avoid the temptation! Yes, yes, I know the PCs will sit in awe of
the astounding skill levels and powers your totally kickbutt character
has and that they will be thrilled by all the stories of the world shaking
events the character has been involved with and they will be stunned
by the astoundingly powerful array of magical artifacts the character
has collected. But give the PCs a chance to use their own pitiful skills,
pathetic powers, and mundane equipment!
(...add your own here, NOTHING GAME SYSTEM/GENRE SEPCIFIC please...)
--
- Bill Seurer ID Tools and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
Business: BillS...@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillS...@aol.com
WWW: http://members.aol.com/BillSeurer
Dr Kromm
Deadly Sin #2: Forcing the players to follow your plot, no matter what.
Even when the players hate it. Even when the PCs lack all the skills to
deal with it. Even when they take actions that -- by rights -- ought to
relegate the plot to irrelevancy.
Don't do this! Ever. When the players kill a plot, let it die. No
plot is holy.
-- Kromm
--
Sean M. Punch o E-mail: o 4122 rue Rivard
(a.k.a. Dr Kromm) | At SJG: kr...@io.com | Montreal, Quebec
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=o Local POP: kr...@cam.org o Canada H2L 4H9
GURPS Line Editor | WWW: | Home: (514) 288-9600
and Net Guru o http://www.io.com/~kromm o Work: (514) 288-9615
Mormegil of Ket (C. Walker)
Deadly Sin #3: Remember that the GM has the right to have as much fun as
the players. I've seen too many games where the task of the GM is a chore
rather than fun. While I will be the first to admit that game mastering
is work, it should not be a burden. If some aspect of the game is making
the GM unhappy, he should change it. Problems I have seen include,
frustration with poor players, never getting a chance to play a character,
or boredom with the current game. If a GM has any of these problems the
only solution is to change it and change it quick. Find new players,
coerce a player into being the GM for a while, or try a new game. If you
don't correct the problem the whole playing experience will be a real
bummer.
--
The old grey donkey, Eeyore, stood by himself...sometimes he thought sadly to himself, "Why?" and sometimes he thought, "Wherefore?" and sometimes he didn't quite know what he was thinking about.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some fun to be had for gaming nerds at http://users.deltanet.com/~mormegil
Gabriel Knight
seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) wrote:
>Deadly Sin #1: Don't send one of your own reely kool characters with the
>PCs. Avoid the temptation! Yes, yes, I know the PCs will sit in awe of
Yup, I know a GM who did that all the time. Really annoying business.
He would go to great lengths to try and impress us with detailed
descriptions of his wonderful NPC's presence, bearing, equipment, etc
etc etc. Of course this had the effect of putting everyone to sleep.
I didn't play for very long.
Here's another deadly sin for ya: Don't coddle the players. Don't
make them believe that nobody will ever die in your adventures. It
takes away a lot of the fun, drama, and tension if it becomes known
that you can't be killed no matter what.
This was another of the faults of the above mentioned GM. After
awhile everyone caught on and started to do stupid things because they
knew they could get away with it. Because it was so essential to the
plot that they all live, no one was ever allowed to die (even through
suicide).
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hyong Kim al...@lava.net http://www.lava.net/~alpha/
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Some people say I'm apathetic--but I don't really give a damn."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Colin Cashman
In article <54fto8$t...@news.rchland.ibm.com> seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) writes:
>I was at a game convention this past weekend and I played in an RPG event
>that had a lot of potential. Well, it was fun but the GM did something
>that really irked me and after thinking about it a while I decided that it
>was probably one of the Deadly Sins of GMing.
>
>PCs. Avoid the temptation! Yes, yes, I know the PCs will sit in awe of
>has and that they will be thrilled by all the stories of the world shaking
>events the character has been involved with and they will be stunned
>by the astoundingly powerful array of magical artifacts the character
>has collected. But give the PCs a chance to use their own pitiful skills,
>pathetic powers, and mundane equipment!
Corallary #1: Never *ever* give the players that ever-so-cool magical
item you created that has all those super powers and abilities and its
intelligent and can kill dieties in one stroke. Regardless of who you give it
to, it is going to get hideously abused at some point. Give magic to match
the characters.
Deadly Sin #2:
Never *ever* forget to make notes on your campaign. The worst thing
a campaign/game can suffer from is lack of continuity. Things like your
favorite NPC suddenly popping back to life, almost (rather suspiciously) like
he never was killed at all, people who have interacted heavily with the
characters not remembering them, "on-going plot lines" suddently disappearing
("Hey, whatever happened between the Frick'll Kingdom and the Baryn Dutchy? I
mean, weren't they at war?" "Oh yeah... when was that? Three, four years ago?"
"Must've been four - we were drafted in xxxx RLA."), "used" potions and charged
magical items having a seemingly infinite amount of uses, etc. Also, along
these lines, think about changes in the setting (not necessarily notes on
what the PCs do, but what is happening in the *dynamic* campaign world). Have
kings been ousted? Wars fought? Dragons slain? World upheavels occured?
--
#include <disclaim.h> // disclaimers, etc.
#include <iostream.h> // input/output
#include <stdlib.h> // general utilities
#include <asbestos.h> // flame retardant
Hamilton Meyer
Deadly Sin #4a: Don't let the characters forget about their real world conections. The little
stuff helps make the players 3D. Checked voice-mail lately, there's a missed clue. How're the
relatives, there's a missed plot or two. Are they up-to-date on their spaceship payments? They
can't _all_ be motivated by just gread.
Deadly Sin #4b: Don't get bogged down in the details. Who cares if the PCs haven't visited the
John in weeks? Who cares about the effects of wind resistance on Mars vs Earth? If the players
don't, and its not real important to the plot, drop it.
Deadly Sin #5: Don't let players get away with unfeeling characters unless they're built that way.
What's the law have to say about privacy and mind reading? How do the PC feel about the super
stud/babe their cruzin with? How about all the inocents on the planet they just nuked from orbit?
Or the thousands of Kobald babies they killed just for the experience? Don't laugh! You've been
there.
Deadly Sin #6: Don't surprise players with as yet undisclosed rulings without letting them
reconsider their actions. Bad GMs do this all the time. As a GM myself, I unwittingly think others
will rule as I would. I run my characters accordingly and expect the GM to let me know when there's
an important difference. I don't have to agree with the GM, I just want a chance to act according
to their rules BEFORE they kill me/hit someone "in the line of fire"/critically fail.
Deadly Sin #7: Don't let the minority rule. Agressive players that run roughshod over the others
should be delt with. Others will expect to be catered to to the exclusion of all others. Deal with
these problem players in a firm but fair way. Insist on the public suport of unhappy players, its
their game to.
Enough from me.
Terry Austin
kr...@io.com (Dr Kromm) wrote:
Deadly Sin #3: When people start asking, "Do you want some popcorn?
I'll make a soda run," you've probably over detailed your GM notes.
---------------------------------
Terry Austin, Companion of Loyal Order of Chivalry & Sorcery
Hyperbooks Online Bookstore
Coming soon: Guns, Guns, Guns by BTRC in Acrobat® format, with an Excel spreadsheet to make it easy!
http://www.hyperbooks.com/
---------------------------------
Carl Perkins
In article <54g8jc$d...@nntp-3.io.com>, kr...@io.com (Dr Kromm) writes...
}Deadly Sin #2: Forcing the players to follow your plot, no matter what.
}Even when the players hate it. Even when the PCs lack all the skills to
}deal with it. Even when they take actions that -- by rights -- ought to
}relegate the plot to irrelevancy.
}
} Don't do this! Ever. When the players kill a plot, let it die. No
}plot is holy.
} -- Kromm
Unless you are playing in a Christian RPG where the plot is preparing for
the second coming of you-know-who. Or some other-religion equivalent.
--- Carl
M Panthera
Deadly Sin #4)
The GM who go on and on about esentually nothing. I know guy who does
exactley this, he can get to be really boring.
Deadly Sin #5)
Same GM abouve it what me and the other players refurred to as the "God
Squad". Simply put all of the major NPCs, and most of the PCs had very
powerfull abilities so much so that we were able to go stomping throgh
what ever encounters that he through at us with ver little in the way of a
challenge.
Deadly Sin #6) Killing off the campaign just as it getting interesting.
Same GM as above but he abruptly changed from RQ to Cyberpunk 20.20, to
Star Trek (In this one we saw what was coming a mile away and the players
killed that one off in one session), to Stormbringer (In that one he sent
us on a demension hopping campaign. It got to be chore for me, and I just
stopped playing in it. He was my roommate at the time but that's another
horror story......), to Call of Cthulhu, well you get the idea............
That's it for now
M Panthera
Peter Hentges
Deadly Sin #4: Do not create unique creatures/technology/magical
items simply so you can describe them to the players when their
characters encounter them...especially if those characters would
have no reasonable way of knowing what these things are.
I'm reminded of a Gen Con game in which the GM told us: "And behind
this door is a diamond dragon...but it's not like the ones you may
have seen in Dragon magazine, this one has a special weakness which
is...."
[O] Peter Hentges
[O] These tern, Peg
[O] JBRU
Frederic Bush
Deadly Sin #i: Tardiness. Nothing pisses off players more than having to
wait for their GM to show up, or watching him read something or write
something at the last minute.
Fred Bush
fbu...@cc.swarthmore.edu Dream. Imagine. Wonder.
Swarthmore, PA
Mike Bigskank
seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) wrote:
>Deadly Sin #1: Don't send one of your own reely kool characters with the
>PCs. Avoid the temptation! Yes, yes, I know the PCs will sit in awe of
>the astounding skill levels and powers your totally kickbutt character
>has and that they will be thrilled by all the stories of the world shaking
>events the character has been involved with and they will be stunned
>by the astoundingly powerful array of magical artifacts the character
>has collected.
This is true. As a GM in a small community, I only have two players.
I will often run a character in the adventures. But, they tend to be
background, an extra Intelligence check, or just another guy to go
along. I play them with character, but never allow him to make
decisions that will affect the PC's. This only happens when the PC's
dont see a clue that is smack DAB in their faces. Also, if i am
playing a character, he is always last to get the new equipment.
Mike
ONLY THE INSANE HAVE STRENGTH ENOUGH TO PROSPER,
ONLY THOSE THAT PROSPER TRULY JUDGE WHAT IS SANE
WileyC
Dr Kromm (kr...@io.com) wrote:
> Deadly Sin #2: Forcing the players to follow your plot, no matter what.
> Even when the players hate it. Even when the PCs lack all the skills to
> deal with it. Even when they take actions that -- by rights -- ought to
> relegate the plot to irrelevancy.
>
> Don't do this! Ever. When the players kill a plot, let it die. No
> plot is holy.
> -- Kromm
Hallelujia, Brother Kromm! One of the most frustrating
gaming experiences of my life was when our group managed to take
down a very powerful vampire; have the GM decide that was too
'quick'; have the GM up the power level of the vampire by a
factor of 10 and send him back after us.
Barely half of us survived after that. And _that_ was
only with the help of an NPC that 'conveniently' happened by.
-john 'keeper of the FAQ' karakash-
Shig the Unmentionable
In article <54h588$p...@mochi.lava.net>, al...@lava.net (Gabriel Knight) wrote:
* seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) wrote:
*
* >Deadly Sin #1: Don't send one of your own reely kool characters with the
* >PCs. Avoid the temptation! Yes, yes, I know the PCs will sit in awe of
*
* Yup, I know a GM who did that all the time. Really annoying business.
* He would go to great lengths to try and impress us with detailed
* descriptions of his wonderful NPC's presence, bearing, equipment, etc
* etc etc. Of course this had the effect of putting everyone to sleep.
Even worse than that: I once played in a D&D game run by someone who
didn't normally GM (er, sorry, DM). He hadn't read the adventure module
thoroughly, *and* he was running his own character. We would kill
whatever menace was in a given room and then look for the treasure,
whereupon the DM would read the treasure list silently to himself and then
say, "Cool! My guy takes that..."
This same player inspires the next sin of GMing: Be flexible, listen to
your players' suggestions, but when it comes down to it, DO NOT buckle
under to player pressure when they want something unreasonable. We had
been playing D&D for a while and then switched to a GURPS game. The
player mentioned above decided he wanted to keep playing his magic-user
D&D character, despite the fact that we were playing in a post-apocolyptic
"Mad Max" type world. The GM made the expected explaination of "Well,
that wouldn't really be appropriate here," but the player kept whining and
moaning until the GM gave in. (Of course, the Unusual Background he
charged made the character too weak to be useful. The player eventually
dropped out, having decided GURPS was just too hard on the players.)
Unfortunately I've had the misfortune to play in--and GM, much to my
shame--a number of other games where the whiney players got pandered to,
and the situations didn't always work themselves out so neatly. As a GM,
my attitude has always been, if you have a story to tell, tell it! It may
not always work out quite the way you had originally conceived, which only
makes things interesting for you (and I agree completely with the earlier
poster, about not trying to keep a plot alive after the players have
killed it). But if a player's request (or demand!) is completely beyond
the scope of the scenario you're running, giving in will ruin the game.
****************************************************************************
*
Shig the Unmentionable, * http://www.pd.net/shig
Three Time Olympic Medalist, *
Men's Sliding-Down-The-Banister * Remember when 1 MB seemed like a lot?
*
****************************************************************************
Pete Darby
Hmm.. related to that one is;
Deadly Sin Number 0 (I put it above 1);
Never allowing player actions to screw up a good
story.
In a way, showing off how way cool your old
character is is just an aspect of ignoring your
players and their characters; if you didn't want to
see how they would deal with a situation, why the
fnord did you start the adventure?
Sauron
Bill Seurer wrote:
>
> I was at a game convention this past weekend and I played in an RPG event
> that had a lot of potential. Well, it was fun but the GM did something
> that really irked me and after thinking about it a while I decided that it
> was probably one of the Deadly Sins of GMing.
>
> has and that they will be thrilled by all the stories of the world shaking
> events the character has been involved with and they will be stunned
> by the astoundingly powerful array of magical artifacts the character
> pathetic powers, and mundane equipment!
>
> --
>
> - Bill Seurer ID Tools and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
> Business: BillS...@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillS...@aol.com
> WWW: http://members.aol.com/BillSeurer
Three words: parsimony, parsimony, parsimony.
I've never run an FRPG, so I can just imagine the "mountain of gold"
problems refs must encounter as the PCs run amuk with their newly-gotten
riches after slaying Smaug or whomever. Having always run modern-day or
dark-future stuff, money is really no easier to manage.
I beleive the biggest problem with rewards in RPGs (and managing them)
is that every game seems to inevitably degenerate into a gang war
between the ref and the players. Unless you have REALLY enlightened
characters who are in it for more than personal gains, I find myself as
a ref constantly trying to outdo the players in the dirty tricks and
rules lawering department. This is fine during the course of a game, but
I shouldn't have to do this in order to keep their bank balances in
line! It's a shame that the clever little netrunner who INSISTS his
icebreaker can establish an infinite cash transfer link into the Bank of
Zurich has to have his brains blown out by a Firestarter, but this is
the sort of thing players try every day.
On the same track, I'm starting to believe that all those nifty
equipment manuals should be kept from the PCs. Yes, they have every
right to view those books as you do, but there's got to be a better way
to make them accessible to the players without the usual "spending
spree" effect which occurs whenever the ref or a player shows up
at the game one night with a new manual. Arguing in the middle of the
game about why the player cannot buy a military-grade powered armor suit
just because he can front hard cash is not beneficial to good GMing.
To be fair, however, let the players receive what they have earned
(that's got SO many different connotations). Seriously, the whole "your
employer double-crosses you" thing is also getting a bit worn out. As
one of my players put it, "when you get that much money, you never get
*that much money*."
Alicia Smith
Deadly Sin #5 Never kill any player character too early in the piece.
Even if they do something stupid. Fudge the rolls if you
have to.
--
- Leece
"You should dream more Mr Wormald. Reality in our
century is not something to be faced."- Dr Hasselbacher
Niels Ull Jacobsen
seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) writes:
>I was at a game convention this past weekend and I played in an RPG event
>that had a lot of potential. Well, it was fun but the GM did something
>that really irked me and after thinking about it a while I decided that it
>was probably one of the Deadly Sins of GMing.
>Deadly Sin #1: Don't send one of your own reely kool characters with the
>PCs. Avoid the temptation! Yes, yes, I know the PCs will sit in awe of
>the astounding skill levels and powers your totally kickbutt character
>has and that they will be thrilled by all the stories of the world shaking
>events the character has been involved with and they will be stunned
>by the astoundingly powerful array of magical artifacts the character
>has collected. But give the PCs a chance to use their own pitiful skills,
>pathetic powers, and mundane equipment!
#2: When your players are at a total loss at what to do, fumbling in
the dark, and have been so for an hour (real time), give them a clue,
a helpful NPC or some such. Even if you think it's totally obvious
what they should do. It might not be very realistic, but it's much
more fun to actually *do* something than just to sit around. Let them
sweat for a while, but if they have given up, nudge them in the right
direction.
#3: Don't expect players to interrupt you. Some of us don't think it's
very polite to interrupt people when they're talking, so don't
describe the gruesome ritual of the cultists until the gory end
without giving the players a chance to act. Some GM's will expect the
players to shout "I'll shoot the high priest!" in the middle of a
sentence.
Corollary (can you have corollaries to deadly sins?):
Players: Don't interrupt your GM. "You see a deserted hallway full of
cobwebs and dust. A heavy staircase leads to the upper floor. There
are two other doors at the far end of the hall, one slightly ajar,
apparently leading to..." "I go up the stairs!"
>- Bill Seurer
--
Niels Ull Jacobsen [MVP], Dep. of CS, U of Copenhagen (nu...@diku.dk)
Roenne Alle 3 st.th, 2860 Soeborg, Denmark, tel. +45 39 66 39 86
Bill Seurer
Keep them coming! I am logging them and will repost the whole list.
jean richard
Bill Seurer (seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com) wrote:
> Keep them coming! I am logging them and will repost the whole list.
Don't be afraid to fudge a die roll.
"My 15th level fighter will get on my horse. oh, I rolled a one"
"Ok, he falls off and breaks his neck.. I guess that's the end of the
campaign... build another char and we'll try it again"
%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\% ##### %\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%
Jean Richard (aka- "Fozzy") |0 0| "It does not do to leave a live
2nd Yr. Computer Science (^ ^) dragon out of your equations"
at Carleton University v-v
%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%\%<jjri...@chat.carleton.ca>%\%\%
Henry Vogel
seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) wrote:
>I was at a game convention this past weekend and I played in an RPG event
>that had a lot of potential. Well, it was fun but the GM did something
>that really irked me and after thinking about it a while I decided that it
>was probably one of the Deadly Sins of GMing.
<snip>
Deadly Sin # whatever: This applies to both GM and players. Do NOT
begin talking about other adventures/campaigns in which you've played!
I played in one game at a con where one of the players and GM spent
most of the time talking about various cool magic stuff they had
created for their weekend campaigns. Eventually, I just gave up and
left the game.
Deadly Sin # whatever +1: Never, ever tell the players how their
characters would react -- even if you DID write the adventure. A
friend of mine played in a game run by the author of the adventure.
Every time a player tried to do something the author decided was out
of characters (not GROSSLY out of character, not even out of line with
the character write up -- but not what the author wanted the character
to do, either) -- the author/GM would say "Your character would never
do that." Advice to people like this -- write short stories, that way
you can control every nuance of the story and all character reactions.
Speaking as a GM who has run adventures he wrote, I always felt a lot
of the fun in that was seeing where players would go with the
characters provided...
Henry
Lea Crowe
In article <326D87...@earthlink.net> andr...@earthlink.net "Sauron" writes:
> Three words: parsimony, parsimony, parsimony. ...
>
> I beleive the biggest problem with rewards in RPGs (and managing them)
> is that every game seems to inevitably degenerate into a gang war
> between the ref and the players.
Nope. Never had that. Never, not once, not even back in my "AD&D" days.
Had characters that were in it for personal gain, had Monty Haul games,
had hack-n-slash fests, but never had an arms race.
In the last ten years, I don't think I've been in a game where greed and
power were the main motivating factors. That is, I haven't GMed a game
where the players have been out for maximum money and grossness, and
I haven't had a character or been in a party whose objective has been
to "beat the GM." (I have been in a "Shadowrun" game which could be
characterised as being motivated by greed, but (a) such is the nature
of "Shadowrun" and (b) the characters had many other motives, interests
and quirks as well.)
Meanwhile, three cheers to the Chaos Puppy for ticking off players
who arrive late.
Deadly Sin of GMing #whatever: Stopping dead and dithering for several
minutes rather than improvising and getting on with it. I remember
one game where the GM was so unprepared and knew the rules so
badly that any action would take literally minutes to resolve
while the GM went, "er... ah... er... ah..." and tried to figure
out how her world worked or what the system was. (The cure, by the way,
was a few years of experience and a more suitable world/system: the
culprit is now a very fine all-round GM.)
--
l...@hestia.demon.co.uk Ka ao, ka ao, ka awatea!
JANET FARACE
session. He was
horrible. He told me to play a thief. Then he told me that no, the
thief can't
be neutral, she must be good. Then he said she worships the Chaotic god
of war.
Er. Okay, sure. A Good thief that worships a Chaotic war god. Uh huh.
So much for my character concept I had planned out in my head, mr. GM.
I attempt to properly roleplay the high elven NG thief he's practically
forced me
to play, by saying nay to all my other ideas. Then he introduces the
party to his
favorite spiffy NPC with tons of levels, magic items, etc. A Drow elf.
Ah. As if
my character, an elf, would happily team up with a Drow? I say, "My
character
screams 'A drow! get him!'". GM says "No you don't. You listen to his
offer and
accept it."
The party ends up going on this horrid mission for the drow my character
wanted to
shoot on sight, so that we can retrieve a powerful magic item for the
GM's treasured
NPC. We finally, after a couple of deaths in the party, retrieve the
item. The
party is forced by the GM to hand the item over to his NPC in exchange
for a meal
and a small amount of gold. Uh. Sure. The GM decides that all the
female characters
in the party fall madly in love with the drow NPC, who has a charisma in
the
upper 20s, and sleep with him. All at once. I almost laugh as I say
"You mean to tell me that a high elf falls in love with the Drow she's
despised and wanted to kill since
she met him?" GM: "Yes, and (rolls percentile dice) she's pregnant."
I say "My character retires from adventuring in shame and goes home to
mother."
I never returned to his game.
>
> Henry
Bridget
Hamilton Meyer
Deadly Sin #8: Don't be afraid to let characters die. Occasional character death retains a sense
of mortality.
Deadly Sin #9: Don't be afraid of party friction, even when it might mean character death.
Players need to learn to deal with the consequences of their actions. If they never have to fear
death, they're less likely to care about alternatives to hack and slash. If they never have to
fear death at the hands of there own party members, they're less likely to respect the other
characters property and basic rites. PC interaction can be the biggest part of roleplaying in some
games. Don't limit that avenue by insisting that everyone get along.
Paul Henrichsen
Sauron wrote:
> Three words: parsimony, parsimony, parsimony.
>
> problems refs must encounter as the PCs run amuk with their newly-gotten
> riches after slaying Smaug or whomever. Having always run modern-day or
> dark-future stuff, money is really no easier to manage.
>
> is that every game seems to inevitably degenerate into a gang war
> characters who are in it for more than personal gains, I find myself as
> a ref constantly trying to outdo the players in the dirty tricks and
> rules lawering department. This is fine during the course of a game, but
> I shouldn't have to do this in order to keep their bank balances in
> line! It's a shame that the clever little netrunner who INSISTS his
> icebreaker can establish an infinite cash transfer link into the Bank of
> Zurich has to have his brains blown out by a Firestarter, but this is
> the sort of thing players try every day.
Non monetary rewards work well. Especially ones that are at least as
much
inconvience as they are a benefit. You have been knighted. You must
spend
at least 2 months a year in court as an honor guard. You must also
supply,
on demand 20 trained, armed, and armored men at arms. Your attendance
at certain fetes, feasts, and festivals (5 per year). You should expect
to spend in the neighborhood of $15,000 each year on proper sttire for
these
events.
Then there's the tax man. Property taxes can be killer, especially when
combined with a truthsayer spell....
--
Paul D Henrichsen henr...@ix.netcom.com
woef...@io.com phenr...@cc.weber.edu
homepage http://www.io.com/~woefulhc/
Student
I once had a player who tried to dominate the group by
playing a charakter that was useful but had so many bad
traits (we played Traveller) that the group would either
do what he wants to keep him calm or risk to get some of its
members killed. I consider it my fault to allow that player
to describe his charakter that way. So another deadly sin is
Never allow a player a charakter that has big problems interacting
with the rest of the group. Exspecially if the player is a *real*
roleplayer who doesn't know when to stop. Always keep the group
at least marginally balanced.
As a side node, during one session the group forgot to inform the
charakter, that the re--located the ship. When he didn't show up
(his charakter didn't know) the went on a mission without him. Soon
thereafter the player quitted.
Michael Brinkhues
Fred Wagener
DSGM # X:
Don't make your mysteries/puzzles/plots so convuluted that no one but you
(the GM) can follow them. I failed to follow this rule and killed one of
the best campaigns I've ever run. As Aaron Allston put it, "...clues fly
like clouds of bats and pretty soon the players wander off to play video
games..." Since then, my players will give me "cloud of bats"-sign if they
think things are getting too byzantine.
For people who really care about this stuff, Allston's "10 Sure Fire Ways
To Kill A Campaign" article (originally published in one of the HERO
magazines) really says it all. Reading his article made me a better GM.
If Aaron is on this newsgroup, maybe we can talk him into reposting it.
It's copyrighted so I don't think I can post it myself.
Fredrick
Terry Austin
Sauron <andr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Arguing in the middle of the
>game about why the player cannot buy a military-grade powered armor suit
>just because he can front hard cash is not beneficial to good GMing.
We call it The Butter Knife Rule. During a Top Secret game, I was
trying to buy a flare pistol, the kind you see in old movies, because
I'd never shot someone with one (Don't ask. It was the character's
hobby to try to kill someone with a new kind of weapon every mission.)
The GM didn't want to deal with it, so he said I couldn't find one.
When another player pointed out, several times, that he'd seen onee in
a boat shop a week before, the GM replied, "It's my game, and if I say
you can't find a butter knife, you can't find a butter knife."
Period. haven't had an argument since, either.
Earl A Kwallek
In article <326ECF...@popalex1.linknet.net>, jan...@popalex1.linknet.net
says...
>
>> Deadly Sin # whatever +1: Never, ever tell the players how their
>> characters would react -- even if you DID write the adventure. A
(SNIP)
My only question was why you BOTHERED to stick around for the rest of the
adventure after being subjected to the character creation railroading. I might
have done so if I was REALLY in need of a gaming fix. But at the point where
the GM introduced the Drow and told me I can't do what my character WOULD do, I
would have said (to the other players): "Hey, I run a REAL game - if anyone is
interested here's my number" and walked out.
I've actually done this twice- both times the players took me up on it....
a power-tripping player can (barely) be tolerated, It is inexcusable in a GM.
Matt Hyra
Deadly Sin #44 "Rewarding Pushy Players"
I played in a Horror game recently where most of the party were
scholarly types who were collegues at Miskatonic U.
We were at a creepy house at night.
Two of the characters were examining the door.
The other three PCs were still in the car "on the lookout"
Suddenly, one of the players who's PC was in the car stated, "I get out
of the car, go up to the front door, go inside and look around."
I (being one of the PCs at the door) barely has time to say "Uhh, but"
before the GM was already describing the cool stuff the pushy person
found.
---
There are several problems with the above. Below are solutions.
1. If a GM doesn't want the PCs to be methodical and "slow," don't give them
non-action characters.
2. If you don't want people to examine doors, LEAVE THEM OPEN.
3. Give players a chance to react to other PC actions, especially when
they would be in close quarters. (I should have been able to stop the
pushy PC)
4. Remind players that there are other PCs in the area who are watching
them or at least in speaking range. The 3 PCs were in the car. One
suddenly got out and walked away without saying a word. Yeah, right!
The other PCs would have AT LEAST said, "Going somewhere?"
5. Don't reward a pushy player with treasure/info because he "took action
and got the game going" (this is what the GM later said). It will only
alienate the players who are roleplaying their characters.
6. If you want "the game to get going", simply compress time and don't ask
the players for detailed actions. Say things like, "You don't find
anything" and "After searching several different areas you have come to
the following conclusion..."
Thanks, Matt Hyra Seattle, WA
Peter Hentges
Bill Seurer wrote:
>
> Keep them coming! I am logging them and will repost the whole list.
Never begin a scenario by apologizing to the players. "Sorry I
didn't write out character sheets for you..." or "Sorry I didn't
get all the NPC stats worked out..." Either do this stuff before
the game or learn to wing it during play.
[O] Peter Hentges
[O] Sheep get rent
[O] JBRU
Bryce
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Deadly Sin of GM'ing: Being unprepared. Or more precisely,
letting your players _know_ that you are unprepared. Either be
ready, or be ready to pretend you were ready!
Regards,
Zooko
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2
Comment: www.c2.net/~bryce -- 'BAP' Easy-PGP v1.1b2
iQCVAwUBMm+Q0fWZSllhfG25AQE6zQP/aSoc4Zd/gQSEBiQpOLR6ssgAp+wqrvyW
kcEyvyu7I997tHrejI53scFhMW3W/pGNSyuFQf2g5XVi+V+VXlslBFDF/J6faNpt
sJPPD1roPjdg+B3ZKPzWFfxik8vO9VrMfTPfq+AXwwjiW22cxOANTAeWHBcGwJug
cplfEI1TKmo=
=m2IW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Paul Beakley
Pete Darby <p.j....@cant.ac.uk> wrote:
>Hmm.. related to that one is;
>Deadly Sin Number 0 (I put it above 1);
>Never allowing player actions to screw up a good
>story.
And don't forget its corrollary:
Deadly Sin Number 0b:
Never let your precious, inflexible storyline screw up good
characters. Nobody likes to be railroaded.
Paul
Paul Beakley
Pa...@Z-com.com
Z-Com/Susan Z Communications
Media Consulting & Design
602.839.1300
http://www.z-com.com/z-com
Frederic Bush
In article <54luvr$d...@vulcan.netdepot.com>, vog...@dstm.com (Henry Vogel)
wrote:
> Deadly Sin # whatever +1: Never, ever tell the players how their
> characters would react -- even if you DID write the adventure. A
> friend of mine played in a game run by the author of the adventure.
> Every time a player tried to do something the author decided was out
> of characters (not GROSSLY out of character, not even out of line with
> the character write up -- but not what the author wanted the character
> to do, either) -- the author/GM would say "Your character would never
> do that." Advice to people like this -- write short stories, that way
> you can control every nuance of the story and all character reactions.
> Speaking as a GM who has run adventures he wrote, I always felt a lot
> of the fun in that was seeing where players would go with the
> characters provided...
I disagree. ESPECIALLY in a convention situation, the GM is there to
enforce roleplaying. While the GM probably shouldn't say things like "your
character wouldn't do that," the GM is perfectly within his/her rights to
demand an in-character explanation for questionable acts, and then refuse
the action if there is no justification. The whole point of a character is
that you play _in character_; you can't just act randomly and arbitrarily
(Toon excepted).
In an ongoing campaign, though, that is best enforced through mechanisms
like alignment change in *D&D, where the character changes as his actions
dictate. However, at a con, you can't do that.
Bill Seurer
In article <54luvr$d...@vulcan.netdepot.com>, vog...@dstm.com (Henry Vogel) writes:
|> Deadly Sin # whatever: This applies to both GM and players. Do NOT
|> begin talking about other adventures/campaigns in which you've played!
|> I played in one game at a con where one of the players and GM spent
|> most of the time talking about various cool magic stuff they had
|> created for their weekend campaigns. Eventually, I just gave up and
|> left the game.
That's at conventions only. Heck, I think half the people at in my
normal group just show up for the chatting. Sometimes we actually
get some gaming in!
Now other people may feel differently, but it's been my experience that
a lot of groups are this way.
Mary K. Kuhner
>I disagree. ESPECIALLY in a convention situation, the GM is there to
>enforce roleplaying. While the GM probably shouldn't say things like "your
>character wouldn't do that," the GM is perfectly within his/her rights to
>demand an in-character explanation for questionable acts, and then refuse
>the action if there is no justification. The whole point of a character is
>that you play _in character_; you can't just act randomly and arbitrarily
>(Toon excepted).
It really depends on your opinion of your players. Convention players
may be bad enough that the GM feels he needs to do this to preserve the
other players' fun (I've seen it happen a few times). But I think if
the GM is needing to continually change PC decisions in an established
game, or even in a con game with good players, something has gone
drastically wrong--probably with the GM's approach to the game.
I played Jezriel, a wicked young servant of He Who Must Not Be Named,
in a convention run once. The GM told me during the coffee break
midway that he was docking Jezriel EXP because she hadn't buried the
bodies of the people the party had killed. He was surprised to get
an impassioned in-character response along the lines of "They were
enemies of mine, therefore they were enemies of my god, and it is
just and fitting that the ravens eat their eyes and the unfeeling
winds pick over their bones and their souls wail in the outer darkness
forever. --No. I'm not going to bury them. You can keep your bloody
EXP."
People who roleplay primarily because they enjoy developing and
depicting characters will tend to quit if you take that ability away,
just like people who play to solve puzzles and challenges will quit
if the GM starts in with, "No, you attack the tower by the *front*
entrance." (Don't laugh. I've seen it happen.)
Mary Kuhner mkku...@genetics.washington.edu
Archangel Beth
>seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) writes:
>
>>I was at a game convention this past weekend and I played in an RPG event
>>that had a lot of potential. Well, it was fun but the GM did something
>>that really irked me and after thinking about it a while I decided that it
>>was probably one of the Deadly Sins of GMing.
>
>>PCs. Avoid the temptation! Yes, yes, I know the PCs will sit in awe of
>>the astounding skill levels and powers your totally kickbutt character
>>has and that they will be thrilled by all the stories of the world shaking
>>events the character has been involved with and they will be stunned
>>by the astoundingly powerful array of magical artifacts the character
>>has collected. But give the PCs a chance to use their own pitiful skills,
>>pathetic powers, and mundane equipment!
Deadly Sin #x: When a character has amassed enough skill/power/
whatever in some area, enough to be a world-class expert and
maybe enough to gloat a little -- do *not* instantly create an NPC
(using more points/dice/assiging higher numbers/whatever) who
is better than the PC in the PC's specialty and whose main goal
in life appears to be to rub the PC's nose in that fact. Especially
do not create such an NPC as a "goad" to force the PC to follow
the railroad tracks of the plotline (please keep hands and feet
inside the car until the plot has come to a complete stop).
If a PC's earned the obscene skill, let him keep it. Trickier
mobs of almost-as-good NPCs will do better anyway.
--emc...@nh.ultranet.com // arca...@io.com // emc...@jade.mv.net
GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/
Lee Gold
In article <54objb$14...@news.rchland.ibm.com>,
Bill Seurer <seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com> wrote:
>Heck, I think half the people at in my
>normal group just show up for the chatting. Sometimes we actually
>get some gaming in!
>
>Now other people may feel differently, but it's been my experience that
>a lot of groups are this way.
and chatter on for some time until the cry goes up of "Back to
Japan!" (or to the ASteroids, or whatever).
Philip Masters
In article: <54loo2$m...@moon.htc.honeywell.com>
> For people who really care about this stuff, Allston's "10 Sure Fire
> Ways To Kill A Campaign" article (originally published in one of the
> HERO magazines) really says it all. Reading his article made me a
> better GM. If Aaron is on this newsgroup, maybe we can talk him into
> reposting it. It's copyrighted so I don't think I can post it myself.
It's also included in the Champions rulebook (p.265). So I assume that
Hero have the copyright, and will want to protect it.
--
Phil Masters
Old Home Page:
http://www.taynet.co.uk/~gdx/users/masters/index.htm
New Home Page:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Phil_Masters
Doug Lampert
In article <54lcp9$o...@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca>,
jean richard <jjri...@chat.carleton.ca> wrote:
>
>Don't be afraid to fudge a die roll.
>"My 15th level fighter will get on my horse. oh, I rolled a one"
>"Ok, he falls off and breaks his neck.. I guess that's the end of the
>campaign... build another char and we'll try it again"
Any time I need to fudge a die roll, what I actually need to do is change
systems. If you are not willing to put up with all outcomes from a die
then do not roll it. I would
never roll dice to mount a horse unless there were extraordinary
circumstances.
DougL
Hamilton Meyer
Mary K. Kuhner wrote:
>
> In article <fred-24109...@news.cc.swarthmore.edu> fr...@sccs.swarthmore.edu (Frederic Bush) writes:
>
> >I disagree. ESPECIALLY in a convention situation, the GM is there to
> >enforce roleplaying. While the GM probably shouldn't say things like "your
> >character wouldn't do that," the GM is perfectly within his/her rights to
> >demand an in-character explanation for questionable acts, and then refuse
> >the action if there is no justification. The whole point of a character is
> >that you play _in character_; you can't just act randomly and arbitrarily
> >(Toon excepted).
>
> It really depends on your opinion of your players. Convention players
> may be bad enough that the GM feels he needs to do this to preserve the
> other players' fun (I've seen it happen a few times). But I think if
> the GM is needing to continually change PC decisions in an established
> game, or even in a con game with good players, something has gone
> drastically wrong--probably with the GM's approach to the game.
>
I disagree _some_. I've been playing with some of the same players for over 10 years, very
experienced and good roleplayers, but even they do something out of character once in a blue moon.
The originally posted DSGM said not to _tell_ your players what their characters should do. I
agree with that, but the GM does have to _ask_ the players "would so and so really do that?" Its
their character so what they say is fine, but I've had a few times where the player said "now that
you mention it..." Everyone slips once in a while.
This kinda goes along with the players _asking_ the GM "would NPC so and so really do that?" Not a
problem as long as the person owning the character/monster/NPC has the final say (GM gets final
say on anything not a PC).
David Crowe
Fred Wagener <fwag...@src.honeywell.com> wrote:
: For people who really care about this stuff, Allston's "10 Sure Fire Ways
: To Kill A Campaign" article (originally published in one of the HERO
: magazines) really says it all. Reading his article made me a better GM.
: If Aaron is on this newsgroup, maybe we can talk him into reposting it.
: It's copyrighted so I don't think I can post it myself.
Allston has a web page at (roughly) http://www.io.com/~allston Or maybe
there wasn't a tilde.
--
David "No Nickname" Crowe No generalization is true
-not even this one.
Daniel Arnold Hopping
heres one- dont let one person kill the entire party and the campaign by
one stupid action! the middle earth game i was in ended abruptly when
one one idiot tried to kill a dragon (who was on good relations with
party- he was going to let us have all the trasure except 1 piece) and
another idiot who got everyone killed by not droppiing his weapons when
the dragon offered surender for the 12th time.
also applies to players who go so tottaly chaotic nuetral that they
suicide and take half the party with them
Scott A. H. Ruggels
Deadly Sin #10
Prepare your information in advance.
GM: ..travelling for three days by horse, and you're all a little tired
of bad trail food, but at the end of the trail lies the little village
of... <rustle of papers> ...Haddonfield! Yes, that's it. Haddonfield.
Player 1 : So what's it like?
GM: Oh it's a small village at the edge of the Hamarian Empire, but it
used to be a Bucyrean farm toen, so there are bits, like the gate posts
and stuff, and the way the houses are oriemnted that reminds you of
other Bucyrean towns.
Player 2: Let's go to the Inn.
Gm: ...um...< shuffles through papers> ...Hmmm.... <shuffles more
papers as a stall, as he has not generated the details of the Inn> Okay
you go to the Inn of the Ruptured Duck?
Player 1: Ruptured Duck?
GM: Uh Yeah.. The ruptured duck
Player 2: Is the barmaid cute?
GM: Yeah Sure..
Player 1: Ruptured Duck?
GM: <Stage whisper> Just be quiet, it what I could think of on the spur
of the moment.
Later....
GM: Okay you turn the corner, and there is a Mokahg Anru there. It sees
you and charges.
Player 1: Shit onna Stick! Marcellus! Get over here! We got a problem!
Player 2: Coming!
GM: It charges you. <clatter of dice> Hmmm... Hold it, I have to find
it's chance to hit.... <rustle of papers>
Player 1: This one ain't on the book, is it?
GM: Ah no...
Player 1: Okaaaay, where did you last have the paper.
Player 2: Did you check your car?
GM: Guess I'll have to now, I'm not seeing it...
Players 1 to 4 all break out magazines and comicbooks as the GM turns
his car inside out looking for the notebook withj the custom monster
Several Minutes later GM returns empty hannded...
GM: Okay , I guess I must have lef it at work. Sorry Guys. Okay
Marcellus and you were in the cellar and you spotted a Wolf.
Player 1: So it's not a Mokahg Anru?
GM: Ah... no
Player 1 : Okay, I hit it.
GM: Go to it.
Player one <clatter of dice, counting> I hit it by three. Damage is...
a whole bunch.
GM: Don't bother counting it's dead..
Player 2: Marcellus comes over, 'what happened? You hurt?'
player 1: Naw Marcellus, just a wolf...
Scott
Scott A. H. Ruggels
jean richard wrote:
>
> Bill Seurer (seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com) wrote:
> > Keep them coming! I am logging them and will repost the whole list.
>
> Don't be afraid to fudge a die roll.
> "My 15th level fighter will get on my horse. oh, I rolled a one"
> "Ok, he falls off and breaks his neck.. I guess that's the end of the
> campaign... build another char and we'll try it again"
>
Scott
Lea Crowe
In article <54loo2$m...@moon.htc.honeywell.com>
fwag...@src.honeywell.com "Fred Wagener" writes:
> For people who really care about this stuff, Allston's "10 Sure Fire Ways
> To Kill A Campaign" article (originally published in one of the HERO
> magazines) really says it all.
This would be very interesting and useful to me. I'm desperately trying to
kill my current campaign right no-- oh, that isn't what you meant?
Tony Cruickshank
Bill Seurer wrote:
>
> I was at a game convention this past weekend and I played in an RPG event
> that had a lot of potential. Well, it was fun but the GM did something
> that really irked me and after thinking about it a while I decided that it
> was probably one of the Deadly Sins of GMing.
>
> Deadly Sin #1: Don't send one of your own reely kool characters with the
> PCs. Avoid the temptation! Yes, yes, I know the PCs will sit in awe of
> the astounding skill levels and powers your totally kickbutt character
> has and that they will be thrilled by all the stories of the world shaking
> events the character has been involved with and they will be stunned
> by the astoundingly powerful array of magical artifacts the character
> has collected. But give the PCs a chance to use their own pitiful skills,
> pathetic powers, and mundane equipment!
Not really a seperate Deadly Sin, but sort of a corollary so lets call it
Deadly Sin #1a: Don't give a party member a "reely kool" magic item with
kick butt powers and which also happens to be self aware and intelligent.
This is from experience. A GM I used to play with liked to put in super
hard monsters 'cos he liked to roll lots of dice I suspect. However, he
also liked the players not rolling lots of dice, so to redress the game
balance he gave all the low level characters powerful, intelligent magic
items. It got to the point where the players didn't do anything and the
characters became simply platforms for the GM's toys. Of course, he was
happy as he got to roll lots of dice twice over - for his monsters and
magic items!
Tony.
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|email: to...@perihelion.co.uk | Real Programmers don't write in FORTRAN.|
|phone: [+44](0) 1749 344345 | FORTRAN is for pipe-stress freaks and |
|fax : [+44](0) 1749 344977 | crystallography weenies. |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Brenton Johnson
Deadly Sin #google : Don't overpower the characters. Twice now in an
AD&D game I've accidentally stomped the PCs with ill-chosen
adversaries. The reason is that I've never played in, or run a game
that lasted this long. The PCs all have characters of a power level
I'm not used to. Be careful and test the strengths and weaknesses of
the players so you don't slaughter them by accident.
Deadly Sins of PCing #1: Don't be uncooperative. What I mean by this
is if you're playing a game where the characters are supposed to be a
group of heroes it's okay to bend the character a tiny bit. This
happened in an Earthdawn game where I'm a player. Another PC played a
beastmaster who for a great deal of the first adventure wouldn't have
anything to do with the rest of the characters. I know he was
roleplaying, but it doesn't help the game, or the other players (and
GMs) enjoyment. In another setting it may be acceptable, even good,
but not in this one.
Alicia Smith
#X This is hard, but try to give each player *at some stage* every session
your complete,full and undivided attention. This way, the quiet, polite
and unassuming players get some good gaming in, and it can work wonders
for the plot too.
#X+1 This should be credited to Steven Dedman (Gurps Dinosaurs and Space Atlas
etc) because I've heard him say it so often. If the players are going
completely the wrong way, don't be afraid to turn the map around.
"You see in the distance a dark brooding castle"
"Hey, that isn't on the map!"
Innocent look. " No. It's not, is it?"
#X+2 Don't be inflexible. I heard of a AD+D game where the DM/GM devised
a cunning maze full of pressure traps and (gasp!) No Monsters.
The Players decide to fly in.
The DM says : "Okay, you get this, this and this."
Quick adventure!
--
- Leece
"You should dream more Mr Wormald. Reality in our
century is not something to be faced."- Dr Hasselbacher
Mary K. Kuhner
Sure, I'm happy with "would your character really do that?" We
ask that kind of question all the time, both of PCs and NPCs.
But if the player says "Yes, my character would really do that"
I don't think the GM is well advised to argue any further.
I was involved in an interesting style of PBeM for a while in which it
was understood that the player could write NPC dialog and reactions,
and the GM could write PC thoguhts, dialog, and reactions, as long
as s/he felt s/he knew what to say--but the GM (for NPCs) or
player (for PCs) always had the right to refuse material that
seemed wrong. This is tricky, and takes a lot of trust, but it
can work. However, the right of refusal is *essential*.
I recall one stunning scene in which the PC was seducing someone,
and I got the next bit of email from the GM and it said "And then
you slit her throat with your sharp fingernails and drink the
flowing blood." And I stopped short, thought about it carefully,
and sent my next turn--going on from there. Absolutely unexpected
but perfectly correct, and not an effect we could have gotten with
more conventional methods of play.
If you have to refuse very often the whole thing falls apart,
so GM and player(s) had better be on the same wavelength.
I doubt you could start a campaign this way: it takes some
time to develop.
Mary Kuhner mkku...@genetics.washington.edu
Matt Korth
In article <54pf1s$c...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>,
David Crowe <jet...@primenet.com> wrote:
>Fred Wagener <fwag...@src.honeywell.com> wrote:
>: For people who really care about this stuff, Allston's "10 Sure Fire Ways
>: To Kill A Campaign" article (originally published in one of the HERO
>: If Aaron is on this newsgroup, maybe we can talk him into reposting it.
>: It's copyrighted so I don't think I can post it myself.
>Allston has a web page at (roughly) http://www.io.com/~allston Or maybe
>there wasn't a tilde.
The material in question was incorporated into 4th ed. Champions, and was
also included in Allston's _Strike Force_ supplement. Which, incidentally,
is up for a second edition...
--
kort...@cps.msu.edu | http://www.cps.msu.edu/~korthmat
Jihaddi & Usenet Cabal (TINC!) member
"Please, Captain. Not in front of the Klingons."
--Captain Spock, _Star Trek V_
Paul Henrichsen
Fred Wagener wrote:
> For people who really care about this stuff, Allston's "10 Sure Fire Ways
> To Kill A Campaign" article (originally published in one of the HERO
> magazines) really says it all. Reading his article made me a better GM.
> If Aaron is on this newsgroup, maybe we can talk him into reposting it.
> It's copyrighted so I don't think I can post it myself.
>
Its now online at
http://www.io.com/~allston/gaming/art-ruin.html
He makes very good points.
--
Paul D Henrichsen henr...@ix.netcom.com
woef...@io.com phenr...@cc.weber.edu
homepage http://www.io.com/~woefulhc/
Michael Jung
Alicia Smith (le...@metapro.com.au) wrote:
: #X+1 This should be credited to Steven Dedman (Gurps Dinosaurs and Space
: are going completely the wrong way, don't be afraid to turn the map
: around. "You see in the distance a dark brooding castle"
: "Hey, that isn't on the map!"
: Innocent look. " No. It's not, is it?"
I consider that railroading. Subtle hints to tell them they're headed the wrong
way are okay, but the above is rather a sin than a virtue.
Michael
Michael Jung
Scott A. H. Ruggels (scott....@3do.com) wrote:
: Deadly Sin #10
: Prepare your information in advance.
Now, I wouldn't consider that a deadly sin :-)
: GM: ..travelling for three days by horse, and you're all a little tired
: of bad trail food, but at the end of the trail lies the little village
: of... <rustle of papers> ...Haddonfield! Yes, that's it. Haddonfield.
: Player 1 : So what's it like?
: GM: Oh it's a small village at the edge of the Hamarian Empire, but it
: used to be a Bucyrean farm toen, so there are bits, like the gate posts
: and stuff, and the way the houses are oriemnted that reminds you of
: other Bucyrean towns.
: Player 2: Let's go to the Inn.
: Gm: ...um...< shuffles through papers> ...Hmmm.... <shuffles more
: papers as a stall, as he has not generated the details of the Inn> Okay
: you go to the Inn of the Ruptured Duck?
: Player 1: Ruptured Duck?
: GM: Uh Yeah.. The ruptured duck
: Player 2: Is the barmaid cute?
: GM: Yeah Sure..
: Player 1: Ruptured Duck?
: GM: <Stage whisper> Just be quiet, it what I could think of on the spur
: of the moment.
From this description alone, I cannot perceive a fault on part of the GM. In
fact, if the town has recently been taken over by the Hamarian Empire and was
previously Bucyrean, the Ruptured Duck might be a signal for the rebels - a
symbol for the rupture that ocurred.
Moreover, there are times, when I as GM like to shuffle paper even when I am
prepared, to make it look otherwise (not going to the extremes described below,
though). There are times when players wander off of the prepared path, but I do
not want to let them know (or vice versa). So to avoid that such is being
sensed by observant players, I randomly determine when to shuffle paper a
bit. Just as rolling dice for no reason at all is a measure against characters
being alert when the players see the GM take dice into his hands.
[...]
: Players 1 to 4 all break out magazines and comicbooks as the GM turns
: his car inside out looking for the notebook withj the custom monster
Michael
Rook
In <32700A...@3do.com> "Scott A. H. Ruggels"
Not for all of us though. I for one almost never write down
more than a paragraph of info for a given session.
Plot, bad guys, desired solution, where/when, major obstacles.
When it comes time to encounter any one detail I make it up on the
fly. If that detail could prove useful later on, I write it down.
NPC/Monster stats? I write em as I use em and stick to those
numbers in the future.
Major NPC's will get a basic write-up ahead of time. As will
expected super villians in a super hero game.
Basically, I improvise. And I remember what I've done.
When things get stuck in a dead point, I throw something wild off
the top of my head. I let the players go with it and act like it was
meant to happen.
I learned this from being in to many games with creative players
who would take any pre-written plot thrown at them and go in a
completly diferent direction. Weather they meant to or not.
Like any good street performer, you have to go with your audience.
For me a deadly sin would be to have prepared to much. Thereby
losing my ability to go with the flow.
A sample way I might do a fantasy game:
Name: Save the dragon
Plot: rescue dragon from evil princess.
Where: kingdom of "Thornberry", village and castle stuff.
Starts in village of "goodham".
How: Pc's travelling through see little Jackie Paper crying in street.
Jackie asks most heroic looking pc to find his friend Puff living
in local cave.
Notes: Dragon was captured by evil princess in nearby castle to use in
some horrific spell.
Major NPC's : Jackie (Child, normal), Puff (Dragon, Powerful), Princess
Magdalyne (Sorceress, V. Powerful).
Hooks: senile king who thinks daughter is 'little angel'. Make it
silly...
Any more detail than this and I start to feel restricted.
Everything else happens as the PC's do their best...
Rook
Matt Korth
In article <54o3ee$5...@lace.colorado.edu>,
wil...@cs.colorado.edu (Bryce) wrote:
>Deadly Sin of GM'ing: Being unprepared. Or more precisely,
>letting your players _know_ that you are unprepared. Either be
>ready, or be ready to pretend you were ready!
Corollary: Unless you're playing _Paranoia_, where the GM spends most of his
time improvising anyway, thus making preparation irrelevant. :)
Henry Vogel
>In article <fred-24109...@news.cc.swarthmore.edu> fr...@sccs.swarthmore.edu (Frederic Bush) writes:
>>I disagree. ESPECIALLY in a convention situation, the GM is there to
>>enforce roleplaying. While the GM probably shouldn't say things like "your
>>character wouldn't do that," the GM is perfectly within his/her rights to
>>demand an in-character explanation for questionable acts, and then refuse
>>the action if there is no justification. The whole point of a character is
>>that you play _in character_; you can't just act randomly and arbitrarily
>>(Toon excepted).
You're certainly free to disagree but I maintain that you have to
accept the risk that a player will interpret the character differently
(not necessarily wrong, just differently) when running role playing
games -- even in a convention situation.
Further, I stand by my other statement -- if you want such total
control over the characters then write short stories or novels and
skip the role playing scene entirely. I've written fiction and role
playing adventures. Both have their own rewards. However, when
you're writing role playing adventures you're allowing others to help
create the story. Those people will not always do things the way you
want them to.
Henry
Bart Gerardi
Frederic Bush wrote:
[Stuff about GMs forcing characters to do something/not to do something
snipped]
> In an ongoing campaign, though, that is best enforced through mechanisms
> like alignment change in *D&D, where the character changes as his actions
> dictate. However, at a con, you can't do that.
>
A better enforcement mechanism is experience points/legend points/ or
whatever
the reward for the system is. Award role-playing rewards (or penalties)
or skills
or something to the character. Or have NPCs who get wronged by them get
*really* angry, or the ones that they do good by be *really*
appreciative...
Bart
--
=======================================================
Bart Gerardi ger...@mail.dec.com
Finance IS 508 493 0845
Digital Equipment Trustno1
=======================================================
Matt Hyra
Paul Beakley (Pa...@z-com.com) wrote:
: Deadly Sin Number 0b:
: Never let your precious, inflexible storyline screw up good
: characters. Nobody likes to be railroaded.
: Paul Beakley
Railroading has gotten a bad name. There are many games out there
that advertise themselves as "storytelling" that often demand that the
characters don't screw things up. Killing the main bad guy in the first
session is bad. GMs just need to fudge things a little to "naturally"
keep the plot on track. Here is a trick I used in a recent
adventure to keep things on track:
The bad guys grabbed the girl and drove off. The PCs all ran out to
their car to give chase. I didn't want the PCs to catch them at this
point. I rolled dice behind my screen and told the player with the worst
driving score that he got to the car first. His action?? "I jump in and
start the car." The player then proceeded to miss 3 out of 4 driving
rolls.
Railroading???
Thanks, Matt Hyra Seattle, WA
Shig the Unmentionable
In article <54objb$14...@news.rchland.ibm.com>,
seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) wrote:
* That's at conventions only. Heck, I think half the people at in my
* normal group just show up for the chatting. Sometimes we actually
* get some gaming in!
*
* Now other people may feel differently, but it's been my experience that
* a lot of groups are this way.
Definitely. Sure, we've got characters to get into and stories to tell,
but don't let's forget that our primary goal in playing a game is to have
fun. :)
(Uh... that *is* our primary goal, isn't it? Guys..?)
****************************************************************************
*
Shig the Unmentionable, * http://www.pd.net/shig
Three Time Olympic Medalist, *
Men's Sliding-Down-The-Banister * Remember when 1 MB seemed like a lot?
*
****************************************************************************
Brenton Johnson
>driving score that he got to the car first. His action?? "I jump in
and
>start the car." The player then proceeded to miss 3 out of 4 driving
>rolls.
Let me get this straight. You made a player make a driving roll to
start a car? Almost believable if it's a stick, or has a complicated
startup, but if it's an automatic? What do you do, make players check
thier Dex to pick up a book?
Mike Bigskank
JANET FARACE <jan...@popalex1.linknet.net> wrote:
>I never returned to his game.
>>
>> Henry
>Bridget
Im just curious...was this all in one gaming session? If not, why did
you play?
Mike
ONLY THE INSANE HAVE STRENGTH ENOUGH TO PROSPER,
ONLY THOSE THAT PROSPER TRULY JUDGE WHAT IS SANE
Bill Seurer
In article <54p12d$s...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>, bren...@ix.netcom.com(Brenton Johnson) writes:
|> Deadly Sins of PCing #1: Don't be uncooperative. What I mean by this
|> is if you're playing a game where the characters are supposed to be a
|> group of heroes it's okay to bend the character a tiny bit. This
|> happened in an Earthdawn game where I'm a player. Another PC played a
|> beastmaster who for a great deal of the first adventure wouldn't have
|> anything to do with the rest of the characters. I know he was
|> roleplaying, but it doesn't help the game, or the other players (and
|> GMs) enjoyment. In another setting it may be acceptable, even good,
|> but not in this one.
Hey now! None of that. This deserves it's own topic.
--
- Bill Seurer ID Tools and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
Business: BillS...@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillS...@aol.com
WWW: http://members.aol.com/BillSeurer
rosalyn rice
In article <54q4ut$p...@goliat.eik.bme.hu>,
Michael Jung <ju...@vma.bme.hu> wrote:
>From this description alone, I cannot perceive a fault on part of the GM. In
>fact, if the town has recently been taken over by the Hamarian Empire and was
>previously Bucyrean, the Ruptured Duck might be a signal for the rebels - a
>symbol for the rupture that ocurred.
The GM's fault here is that a GM should never allow anything into
his campaign that he doesn't want there. In this case, he made a mistake
by giving the inn a comical name when he was trying to keep a serious
tone to the game. The players can't be faulted if they take the hint of
comedy on the GM's part as a sign that he's expecting them to be humorous.
Little things like town names or inn names can be useful bits of
foreshadowing if you are slick enough to think that far ahead. Which town
sounds like the better setting for a Horror game, Eureka Junction or
Hazlett's Acre?
Thomas Barnes
jru...@ix.netcom.com
The n'th deadly sin:
Always pick out one member of the party and make the campaign center
tightly around that person. Ignore any efforts on the part of other
players to carve out a niche for themselves in the campaign. It is
much easier to only keep track of how one of the characters affects
all the NPC's than it is to worry about everyone. If anyone complains
throw it back at them, "Well you never do anything anyway...."
Don't worry about it if some of the players get mad and quit - you
will still have your special player. Maybe you can whittle it down to
just the two of you.....
Special corollary: The above takes on critical importance if the
player in question is of the opposite sex and you find them
attractive.....
Corollary to the corollary: Exercise extreme caution if the player's
significant other is also in the party.....
Rusty
Hamilton Meyer
Bart Gerardi wrote:
>
> Frederic Bush wrote:
>
> [Stuff about GMs forcing characters to do something/not to do something
> snipped]
>
> > In an ongoing campaign, though, that is best enforced through mechanisms
> > like alignment change in *D&D, where the character changes as his actions
> > dictate. However, at a con, you can't do that.
> >
>
> A better enforcement mechanism is experience points/legend points/ or
> whatever
> the reward for the system is. Award role-playing rewards (or penalties)
> or skills
> or something to the character. Or have NPCs who get wronged by them get
> *really* angry, or the ones that they do good by be *really*
> appreciative...
>
and can be spent to influence one die roll. Players can spend 1fp for a +/-1 if they call it
before the die is rolled or 5fp after the die is rolled. Several games have something similar to
this. Very useful if you want to reward the players often but don't want everyone getting god like
fast and permanent like.
rosalyn rice
In article <54pnr7$q...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>,
Rook <ro...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> For me a deadly sin would be to have prepared to much. Thereby
>losing my ability to go with the flow.
I agree but I go one step closer to serious planning. I've got a
plot summary on a sheet of paper (plus any maps and handouts the
characters might need) and I've got the creatures and situations they
"might" encounter on handy index cards, so I have stats for important
information right at hand.
If things get really weird, it's perfectly acceptable for a GM to
ask for a 15 minute break (anything more than that and the energy goes
away) while he feverishly rolls dice and brainstorms to get the adventure
back on track or moving in a different direction.
A useful brainstorming trick that I do is "the random roll". If
I'm stuck, I'll start answering myself "Yes/No" or "Degree" questions.
e.g. "What direction will the characters travel in for the next
adventure?", "Will the king react to them favorably?", etc.
I also like lists of random keywords and other randomizers with
symbolic meanings like a deck of tarot cards. After a few suitably odd
random rolls to get my curiousity piqued, I find that the creative juices
flow pretty well and adventure design is a snap.
Thomas Barnes
David Conner
Matt Korth (kort...@cps.msu.edu) wrote:
: In article <54o3ee$5...@lace.colorado.edu>,
: wil...@cs.colorado.edu (Bryce) wrote:
: >Deadly Sin of GM'ing: Being unprepared. Or more precisely,
: >letting your players _know_ that you are unprepared. Either be
: >ready, or be ready to pretend you were ready!
:
: Corollary: Unless you're playing _Paranoia_, where the GM spends most of his
: time improvising anyway, thus making preparation irrelevant. :)
I think PARANOIA might be an exception to many of these rules....
Robbie Westmoreland
In article <54qrt7$3...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>,
Brenton Johnson <bren...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
$In <Dztx4...@eskimo.com> cit...@eskimo.com (Matt Hyra) writes:
$
$>driving score that he got to the car first. His action?? "I jump in
$and
$>start the car." The player then proceeded to miss 3 out of 4 driving
$>rolls.
$
$Let me get this straight. You made a player make a driving roll to
$start a car? Almost believable if it's a stick, or has a complicated
$startup, but if it's an automatic? What do you do, make players check
$thier Dex to pick up a book?
No no no. It's clear from his story that he made the player roll to
open the door of the car and insert the key in the ignition.
The same way it's clear from your typing that you're over 6 feet tall.
You've got to learn to really read between the lines if you're going
to criticize people on Usenet.
And all you Armenian terrorists out there, just lay off, okay?!
--
Robbie Westmoreland, Star-bellied Geek rob...@phoenix.net
http://www.phoenix.net/~robbiew/ rob...@txs.uscourts.gov
"Nattering Nabob of Negativity"
"The term liberal lies bloodied on the floor" William F Buckley Jr
Simon Smith
Deadly Sin #6
Trust the rules. If the rules say it, it must be right. Always
follow them to the letter; the game was designed that way. Even if
it seems odd at the time, the designers are sure to have taken into account
all possible factors. Even the house rules that you added three years after
the game was published.
[Crossing the road. Oh, that's a Trivial task. Right, make a skill roll.
Oh you failed. You get run over and die. Sorry, even Trivial tasks have a
2% failure chance. Says so right here.]
--
Simon Smith
Caffeine *is too* a substitute for sleep.
Scott A. H. Ruggels
Earl A Kwallek wrote:
>
> In article <326ECF...@popalex1.linknet.net>, jan...@popalex1.linknet.net
> says...
> >
> >> Deadly Sin # whatever +1: Never, ever tell the players how their
> >> characters would react -- even if you DID write the adventure. A
>
> (SNIP)
>
> >Yep. A GM once managed to commit several of these sins in a single
> >session. He was
> >horrible. He told me to play a thief. Then he told me that no, the
> >thief can't
> >be neutral, she must be good. Then he said she worships the Chaotic god
> >of war.
> >Er. Okay, sure. A Good thief that worships a Chaotic war god. Uh huh.
> >So much for my character concept I had planned out in my head, mr. GM.
> >I attempt to properly roleplay the high elven NG thief he's practically
> >forced me
> >to play, by saying nay to all my other ideas. Then he introduces the
> >party to his
> >favorite spiffy NPC with tons of levels, magic items, etc. A Drow elf.
> >Ah. As if
> >my character, an elf, would happily team up with a Drow? I say, "My
> >character
> >screams 'A drow! get him!'". GM says "No you don't. You listen to his
> >offer and
> >accept it."
> >The party ends up going on this horrid mission for the drow my character
> >wanted to
> >shoot on sight, so that we can retrieve a powerful magic item for the
> >GM's treasured
> >NPC. We finally, after a couple of deaths in the party, retrieve the
> >item. The
> >party is forced by the GM to hand the item over to his NPC in exchange
> >for a meal
> >and a small amount of gold. Uh. Sure. The GM decides that all the
> >female characters
> >in the party fall madly in love with the drow NPC, who has a charisma in
> >the
> >upper 20s, and sleep with him. All at once. I almost laugh as I say
> >"You mean to tell me that a high elf falls in love with the Drow she's
> >despised and wanted to kill since
> >she met him?" GM: "Yes, and (rolls percentile dice) she's pregnant."
> >I say "My character retires from adventuring in shame and goes home to
> >mother."
> >I never returned to his game.
>
> adventure after being subjected to the character creation railroading. I might
> have done so if I was REALLY in need of a gaming fix. But at the point where
> the GM introduced the Drow and told me I can't do what my character WOULD do, I
> would have said (to the other players): "Hey, I run a REAL game - if anyone is
> interested here's my number" and walked out.
> I've actually done this twice- both times the players took me up on it....
> a power-tripping player can (barely) be tolerated, It is inexcusable in a GM.
Ho ho ho... This is rich. This is one of those times where I just have
to laugh. This is exactly the sort of thing I had to put up with as a
player for a time, because it was the >only< game in town. However when
I found a new group, I didn't even shut the door behind me :-) Now you
know from whence my ardent simulationism comes from.
Scott
Marshall Ryan Maresca
Matt Hyra (cit...@eskimo.com) wrote:
: Paul Beakley (Pa...@z-com.com) wrote:
: : Deadly Sin Number 0b:
: : Never let your precious, inflexible storyline screw up good
: : characters. Nobody likes to be railroaded.
: : Paul Beakley
:
: Railroading has gotten a bad name. There are many games out there
: that advertise themselves as "storytelling" that often demand that the
: characters don't screw things up. Killing the main bad guy in the first
: session is bad. GMs just need to fudge things a little to "naturally"
: keep the plot on track. Here is a trick I used in a recent
: adventure to keep things on track:
:
(Trick deleted...)
Also, sometimes players are quick to cry that they are being
railroaded. I'll admit, the story told a few posts back about the
forced liking of and then sleeping with the drow was railroading beyond
a doubt. But once I got accused of it simply because the villians were
succeeding. The player knew that there was a killer out there who knew
who he was, so he was walking around the streets "carefully" (his
specific words). When he got hit by a surprise attack, he flipped out,
"I said I was being careful! You're just trying to force it the way
you want it!"
Oh, I didn't realize being careful made Hide in Shadows obselete.
-Marshall Ryan Maresca
David Conner
jfos...@strange.qualcomm.com (JohnFosgett) wrote:
:
: BTW, I prohibit the use of dice by players as a general rule of
: thumb. I find that players who are obsessed with die roll success are no
: fun. Instead of trying something, anything, they are too worried about
: that 7- they need to roll to pick that lock instead of being happy in the
: knowledge that that particular lock looks very difficult to open! I mean
: seriously, whenever you try something in real life, do you *really* know
: *exactly* what your chances are?
:
: Didn't think so.
I think that's a good idea, though it might be a hard sell. I experienced
a similar situation when my fantasy baseball league moved from a
dice-based tabletop game to a computer version of the same game. Before,
it was easy (albeit irrational) to get mad at *yourself* for bad rolls,
etc. It could lead to genuine feelings of frustration. But with the
computer doing the rolling, I noticed much more good-natured
disappointment with the fictional players as opposed to getting mad at
one's self. (e.g. "Damn that Bonds, he never hits in the clutch for me!")
Hamilton Meyer
Simon Smith wrote:
>
> Deadly Sin #6
>
> Trust the rules. If the rules say it, it must be right. Always
> follow them to the letter; the game was designed that way. Even if
> it seems odd at the time, the designers are sure to have taken into account
> all possible factors. Even the house rules that you added three years after
> the game was published.
>
> [Crossing the road. Oh, that's a Trivial task. Right, make a skill roll.
> Oh you failed. You get run over and die. Sorry, even Trivial tasks have a
> 2% failure chance. Says so right here.]
>
that most games state somewhere that the rules are meant as GUIDELINES. Even if they don't say this,
NO GAME DESIGNER knows my group, and how they like to play, better then we do. Players and GMs
should ALWAYS feel free to discuss and agree on changes to ANY rule. Generally speaking, it can't
unbalance things to bad if the opposition plays by the same rules. The best you can hope for is a
game that comes close to providing ALL the rules you agree with.
I'd love to here how more people feel about this one.
John D Sgammato
On Thu, 24 Oct 1996, Archangel Beth wrote:
> Deadly Sin #x: When a character has amassed enough skill/power/
> whatever in some area, enough to be a world-class expert and
> maybe enough to gloat a little -- do *not* instantly create an NPC
> (using more points/dice/assiging higher numbers/whatever) who
> is better than the PC in the PC's specialty and whose main goal
>SNIP<
One of the reasons I like GURPS is because my players _can_ create
characters who are the best in the world at something. There are plenty of
challenges in a good campaign - let the player feel like his character is
Somebody. I had a campaign where the PCs were a trio of black jazz
musicians in 1931 America. They were undoubtedly some of the finest
musicians on the planet, and they met Duke Ellington, Stephane Grappelli,
Jack Teagarden, and a host of others. They loved it! But they still had
to go into the Cotton Club by the service entrance, and ride on the back
of the bus. And being a great Bassist does nothing to stop a bullet.
I say let the players develop the character that they will enjoy playing -
and you as GM develop a plot that will bring out their best.
john
Earl A Kwallek
In article <54pnr7$q...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, ro...@ix.netcom.co says...
>
>A sample way I might do a fantasy game:
>Name: Save the dragon
>Plot: rescue dragon from evil princess.
>Where: kingdom of "Thornberry", village and castle stuff.
>Starts in village of "goodham".
>How: Pc's travelling through see little Jackie Paper crying in street.
> Jackie asks most heroic looking pc to find his friend Puff living
>in local cave.
>Notes: Dragon was captured by evil princess in nearby castle to use in
>some horrific spell.
>Major NPC's : Jackie (Child, normal), Puff (Dragon, Powerful), Princess
>Magdalyne (Sorceress, V. Powerful).
>Hooks: senile king who thinks daughter is 'little angel'. Make it
>silly...
> Any more detail than this and I start to feel restricted.
> Everything else happens as the PC's do their best...
This has got to be the most disgusting plot I have ever seen - mind if I
steal it? :)
jru...@ix.netcom.com
The n'th + 1 deadly sin:
Tell everyone that the next game is on a certain night. Then when
everyone arrives and is all settled in and ready to go, announce that,
"I really don't have anything ready for tonight. Someone else want to
GM? How about a movie?"
Alternatively: "You mean it is my turn to GM? Uh-oh. I don't have
anything ready...."
Rusty
Mormegil of Ket (C. Walker)
Deadly Sins of PCing: 2. Players who constantly interrupt play.
Particularly loud or easily excited players should make a good effort to
sit back and let the GM do his job and to let other players have a day in
the sun. Players who are disruptive might find that the games will go
much better if they sit quiet every once in a while. Nothing ruins a game
faster than an irritated GM out to punish irritatting players!
--
The old grey donkey, Eeyore, stood by himself...sometimes he thought sadly to himself, "Why?" and sometimes he thought, "Wherefore?" and sometimes he didn't quite know what he was thinking about.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some fun to be had for gaming nerds at http://users.deltanet.com/~mormegil
>
ror...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (rosalyn rice) says:
>Rook <ro...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> <Multiple random snips>
>> For me a deadly sin would be to have prepared to much. Thereby
>>losing my ability to go with the flow.
>
> I agree but I go one step closer to serious planning.
> A useful brainstorming trick that I do is "the random roll". If
>I'm stuck, I'll start answering myself "Yes/No" or "Degree" questions.
>e.g. "What direction will the characters travel in for the next
>adventure?", "Will the king react to them favorably?", etc.
> I also like lists of random keywords and other randomizers with
>symbolic meanings like a deck of tarot cards. After a few suitably odd
>random rolls to get my curiousity piqued, I find that the creative juices
>flow pretty well and adventure design is a snap.
>
> Thomas Barnes
I also agree.
Preparation is a bore. Not to mention a general waste of time.
Players will generally take off in any direction that they so choose. I
have always considered the job of the GM to *BE* the game world, not to
create a specific adventure and carefully guide the characters through it.
Not since my munchkinesque days(daze) have I bothered to go into
any lengthy preparation. I have found that the players themselves are
my very best source for adventure ideas. Simply by asking them to answer
several unrelated questions with one word answers I can create an Arch-
villian, goal and plotline for an adventure in under five minutes.
Best of all, the whole thing is extremely flexible and if the
players take off on some subplot that they find more interesting, I can
easily go with the flow without being put out that they didn't like my
original idea. The main thrust of the endeavor is to have *fun* after all.
BTW, I prohibit the use of dice by players as a general rule of
thumb. I find that players who are obsessed with die roll success are no
fun. Instead of trying something, anything, they are too worried about
that 7- they need to roll to pick that lock instead of being happy in the
knowledge that that particular lock looks very difficult to open! I mean
seriously, whenever you try something in real life, do you *really* know
*exactly* what your chances are?
Didn't think so.
John Fosgett
All men are created equal...
after that, all bets are off.
Michael T. Richter
Deadly Sin of GMing #n
When you have a disruptive player who, in the face of repeated warnings,
goes out of his way to make completely anti-social characters who go off
and do their own thing, do not invite this player back to the game. What
you will find happening, nine times out of ten, is that your good,
fun-to-game-with players will leave for greener pastures and you will wind
up with the dysfunctional players.
Deadly Sin of GMing #n+1
Do not let your games break up friendships. If two people who get along
well in ordinary circumstances constantly bicker in game sessions, separate
the two. If you want to game with both of them, run two campaigns and keep
the antagonists in separate campaigns. If you haven't got time for that,
talk things over with the antagonists (individually!) and explain why
you're dropping one of them from the game. If you fail to heed this
advice, you will be responsible for a broken friendship and a completely
unenjoyable campaign.
Deadly Sin of GMing #n+2
Don't ever invite newbies to your campaigns and then leave them high and
dry. If you bring in a newbie, shower him with attention. He's already
feeling the odd man out because he doesn't have the gaming history that his
fellow players have. If you want to keep him, you're going to have to
ensure that he feels welcome and worthwhile.
Deadly Sin of GMing #n+3
Whatever you do, don't ever display favoritism to anyone in your game! I
don't care if this is your girl/boyfriend, husband/wife, best friend from
waaaay back JUST DON'T DO IT! Nothing ticks off players more than a
perceived bias on the GM's part for (or even against, if unjustified!)
another player. If you can't be impartial, for political reasons or
otherwise, in your treatment of a specific player, don't invite that player
to games involving other players. If you can't leave out the player (by
virtue, say, of being married to him or her), don't run games. You'll lose
your players in the end anyway, so what's the point?
Deadly Sin of GMing #n+4
Don't constantly squash your players' dreams and ambitions in your
campaigns. While adversity is a Good Thing in a role-playing environment,
hopelessness, except in some VERY rare circumstances, isn't. If a player
wants his character to save the nation from a great scourge, if this is
even remotely within genre conventions allow the player the opportunity.
(Whether he succeeds or fails should be based on his/his character's
merits, but the opportunity should be provided.) If a player wants his
character to be the greatest gunslinger in the Wild West, allow him the
opportunity to develop the requisite skills. Do not EVER constantly
introduce NPCs who are superior "just to get his goat."
Deadly Sin of GMing #n+5
Never use players' real-life "psych lims" against them. If one of your
friends has a real problem with homosexuality, the game is not a good venue
for forcing him to confront that problem (unless you're a REALLY talented
GM *and* EXTREMELY good friends). If one of your players doesn't like
romantic entanglements, this is the wrong player to force into an
in-character romance. If one of your players has real problems with
racism, this is not a good theme to throw into the game.
--
Michael T. Richter
m...@igs.net
http://www.igs.net/~mtr/
Mike Bigskank
bren...@ix.netcom.com(Brenton Johnson) wrote:
>Let me get this straight. You made a player make a driving roll to
>start a car? Almost believable if it's a stick, or has a complicated
>startup, but if it's an automatic? What do you do, make players check
>thier Dex to pick up a book?
I think what he was referring to was the fact that the worst player
got to the car first, and therefore was going to drive. There was
prolly no roll to start, but during the chase the character had to
make driving rolls to keep up with the pursuit. Most likely, missing
3 out of 4 rolls would mean the bad guys got away...of course, Im only
assuming this...and you know what they say about the word assume...
Hamilton Meyer
Rook wrote:
>
> In <32700A...@3do.com> "Scott A. H. Ruggels"
> <scott....@3do.com> writes:
> >
> >Deadly Sin #10
> >
> >Prepare your information in advance.
> >
>
> Not for all of us though. I for one almost never write down
> more than a paragraph of info for a given session.
> Plot, bad guys, desired solution, where/when, major obstacles.
>
> When it comes time to encounter any one detail I make it up on the
> fly. If that detail could prove useful later on, I write it down.
> NPC/Monster stats? I write em as I use em and stick to those
> numbers in the future.
> Major NPC's will get a basic write-up ahead of time. As will
> expected super villians in a super hero game.
> Basically, I improvise. And I remember what I've done.
>
> When things get stuck in a dead point, I throw something wild off
> the top of my head. I let the players go with it and act like it was
> meant to happen.
> I learned this from being in to many games with creative players
> who would take any pre-written plot thrown at them and go in a
> completly diferent direction. Weather they meant to or not.
>
> Like any good street performer, you have to go with your audience.
>
> For me a deadly sin would be to have prepared to much. Thereby
> losing my ability to go with the flow.
>
>
I can't agree with you more! Are we the only people that run this way? I almost never write
anything down except stats for the climactic battle, and even these are subject to change at a
moments notice if its just not working. I spend some time each day (usually in the car) thinking
about plot twists, NPCs, setting, special power combinations, traps, and unusual items. Mostly in
that order of importance, some things get highlighted in a particular adventure. When history
starts to pile up, I spend a couple of hours adding all the stuff that's happened to a campaign
log for future reference. So far I've never had to refer to it in about 4 years, but have passed
it out to new players. Believe it or not, I tend to remember what the characters have done better
than their own players. Once in a while I'll forget some obscure name but that's not a big deal.
Players love having the option to determine their own destinies, and I insist that they do so.
This goes with Krom's point about not leading them with a dead plot. Nobody likes to get
railroaded for long. To your comment about creative players, I hate modules for this reason.
There is no way an author can anticipate every possible power combination and its effect at every
point in a game. Roleplaying is just to dynamic. Modules can have some cool ideas that I'll
borrow so they're not a complete waste, I'd just never run one again.
I prefer to think up major plot elements and let the players get to them however they want. Most
elements can be dropped in at any point during an adventure. Bar fights can happen in any
bar/inn, forest encounters in any forest, town adventure in any town, space stuff just about
anywhere in space. Much less trouble than trying to steer your players to a particular bar in
town blah-blah on December 4th.
I guess the bottom line for me is being prepared, not having it written down (not the same thing
at all).
Archangel Beth
Michael Jung wrote:
>Alicia Smith (le...@metapro.com.au) wrote:
>:#X+1 This should be credited to Steven Dedman (Gurps Dinosaurs and
>: Space Atlas etc) because I've heard him say it so often. If
>: the players are going completely the wrong way, don't be afraid
>: to turn the map around.
>: "You see in the distance a dark brooding castle"
>: "Hey, that isn't on the map!"
>: Innocent look. " No. It's not, is it?"
>
>I consider that railroading. Subtle hints to tell them they're headed
>the wrong way are okay, but the above is rather a sin than a virtue.
Nah -- so long as they never knew if the castle was there
before or not. (I.e., if the castle just *appeared* somewhere,
the GM had better have a good reason why it wasn't there
the last time the PCs went by...) And if they turn around
and ignore the castle, it needs to stay put. (Schrodringering a
plot point is fine -- if, once the box is opened, the cat
remains a calico.) Heck, though -- I'd just think about where
the blank places on the map were and plop the castle down at
the earliest opportunity no matter what, if I had to
have a castle.
But if they avoid it, then they avoid it, and all the GM can
do is look at the PCs with big sad puppy eyes and ask what
they want to do now?
(Though I agree -- if the GM does the above a *lot*, it can be
a symptom of a railroad mentality, and should be eyed with
dubiosity...)
--emc...@nh.ultranet.com // arca...@io.com // emc...@jade.mv.net
GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/
Dr Kromm
jfos...@strange.qualcomm.com (JohnFosgett) wrote:
> Preparation is a bore. Not to mention a general waste of time. Players
> will generally take off in any direction that they so choose. I
> have always considered the job of the GM to *BE* the game world, not
> to create a specific adventure and carefully guide the characters
> interesting, I can easily go with the flow without being put out that
> they didn't like my original idea. The main thrust of the endeavor is
> to have *fun* after all.
I couldn't agree more! My campaigns all consist of worlds within
which there are bunches of weird threads to be discovered, lost and re-
discovered at the players' whims, in no particular order. I don't find
that "set piece" scenarios with maps, zillions of NPCs with character
sheets and so on are particularly worthwhile, as they basically lead
to an incredibly low-resolution world with a few very obvious patches
of high resolution that indicate The Plot, thus destroying everyone's
willingness to suspend disbelief and get into the life of a character
in the game world.
-- Kromm
--
Sean M. Punch o E-mail: o 4122 rue Rivard
(a.k.a. Dr Kromm) | At SJG: kr...@io.com | Montreal, Quebec
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=o Local POP: kr...@cam.org o Canada H2L 4H9
GURPS Line Editor | WWW: | Home: (514) 288-9600
and Net Guru o http://www.io.com/~kromm o Work: (514) 288-9615
Lee Gold
As a sometime game designer, I'll agree that the rules
are just guidelines and should make that clear. Then again,
they have to be clear enough guidelines that GM and players
can agree what they mean in standard cases, not spend
valuable game time bickering about how to interpret the
rohrschach blobs.
On the third tentacle, every game designer should have a playing
group with ONE player willing to rave and rant about stupid rules so
they don't make it into print. (One way I handled this was to
write the rules but have them playtested by my husband while I
participated as one of the players -- with a second player
enjoying spotting loopholes and a third enjoying catching me in
errors.
My own rules for GMing include taking a nap before a game
so I have enough energy to be able to wing it when the group
loks over the carefully prepped up plotlines I've laid out
and walks elsewhere. Of course, they then only have themselves to
blame if there's an occasional pause of ahalf a minute here and
there while my subconscious churns out what's happening. (I
hope they take it as suspense rat her than as boring.)
Marco S Subias
>Deadly Sins #?
I had a great GM who would get incredibly inspired to run a new type of
campaign, plan it out in detail, run 1d3 great sessions, then get fired
up about _another_ great idea, drop the unfinished story, and start
over. And over. And over. Etc.
I know a GM who is very good in most respects, but who used to give
NPCs terrible names that took away from the mood of the game. In one
stone age fantasy campaign the leader of our (human) tribe was named
"Larry," and the king of the nearby elf tribe was named "Bob."
Thankfully, he is better now, after some gentle criticism. Now he gets
odd-sounding or exotic names out of the phone book. Its an improvement.
Marco
rosalyn rice
I'd be inclined to cut the GM some slack in "railroading" players
by forcing a character to make a skill roll to start a car. In a crisis
situation people do stupid things, especially if they're working with
slightly unfamiliar equipment.
The GM might have been a bit slicker in his handling of the
situation, but his basic idea is sound. e.g.
GM: "As you run from the house, you see the gansters getting into
a car about 100 feet from the house. What are you going to do?"
Party: "We run for our car!"
GM: "Alright, Clyde is closest to the car, so he jumps into the
driver's seat, right?"
Party: "Right!"
GM: "Alright, it takes you all about five seconds to run to the
car and get in. You see that the gangsters have started their car and are
peeling out of the driveway and down the dirt road leading to the main
road. What are you going to do, Clyde?"
Clyde: "I start the car and start to chase them!"
GM: "Where are your keys?"
Cylde: "In my pocket...."
GM: "It takes you five seconds to wriggle around, get the keys
from your pants pocket, fit them into the ignition, and start the car. By
this time the gangsters have reached the main road and are zooming away.
You're going to have to do some crazy driving to have even a hope of
catching them..."
Party: "Aw, Rats! Everyone knows you shouldn't let Clyde
drive...we get out of the car."
If the GM was doing his job right, he was quietly railroading the
characters without them ever realizing that they were railroaded. That's
the trick to successful railroadin: preserving the illusion of free will
when there actually is none.
Thomas Barnes
KyRaden
In article <54pnr7$q...@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>,
ro...@ix.netcom.com(Rook) writes:
> Not for all of us though. I for one almost never write down
>more than a paragraph of info for a given session.
> Plot, bad guys, desired solution, where/when, major obstacles.
>
>
Two comments...
#1 Hear, Hear, Rook! This is the way I run things as well. I've found that
the more you detail out, the more chances you have of the players going in
a different direction and voiding all of your work. I had a very detailed
dungeon design once, and when I ran it the players happened to go in the
exact safest path. If I'd been more experienced at the time, I'd have
juggled things around a bit. At the time, I felt that if they got lucky,
they got lucky. They did dodge some SERIOUS bullets, though.
#2 This is far and away the best discussion I've seen on the Internet so
far. It has plenty of excellent information, and hasn't devolved into a
sniping argument. Give yourselves a round of applause. These deserve to be
logged and sorted, and re-posted. Kudos to the people who are planning on
this, and I look forward to it...
KyR...@aol.com
Portland, OR
B)
Remember:
That last night on the Titanic
there were people who skipped desert...
JKnight112
In article <54ok6h$2...@nyx10.cs.du.edu>, lg...@nyx10.cs.du.edu (Lee Gold)
writes:
>Sounds a lot like our group. We'll drift off onto a side-topic
>and chatter on for some time until the cry goes up of "Back to
>Japan!" (or to the ASteroids, or whatever).
>
>
Ain't that the truth! As GM I've learned to keep the player's goals for a
particular gaming session simple, so as to allow time to be able to
chatter on about something or other.
And I don't really mind it one bit (and neither, I suppose do the
players). We're there to have fun, (the first cardinal virtue of GMing),
and that's what we do.
Jeff.
David G. Bell
In article <54qrt7$3...@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>
bren...@ix.netcom.com(Brenton "Brenton Johnson" writes:
> In <Dztx4...@eskimo.com> cit...@eskimo.com (Matt Hyra) writes:
>
> >driving score that he got to the car first. His action?? "I jump in
> and
> >start the car." The player then proceeded to miss 3 out of 4 driving
> >rolls.
>
> Let me get this straight. You made a player make a driving roll to
> start a car? Almost believable if it's a stick, or has a complicated
> startup, but if it's an automatic? What do you do, make players check
> thier Dex to pick up a book?
A couple of weeks ago I had to start a diesel Land Rover, in a bit of a
hurry. My father had left it with the fuel cut-off knob pulled out, so
it didn't start. It isn't very visible, but I did realise my mistake.
Something like that could easily lose half a minute in a time-critical
situation.
--
David G. Bell -- Farmer, SF Fan, Filker, Furry, and Punslinger..
Erik Starck
>I had a great GM who would get incredibly inspired to run a new type of
>campaign, plan it out in detail, run 1d3 great sessions, then get fired
>up about _another_ great idea, drop the unfinished story, and start
>over. And over. And over. Etc.
Kind of recognize myself in that.
I know one GM who just can't stand it when the PCs get cocky and foul
around with for example villagers. The result is that when playing
with him you can be sure that the innkeeper is an old, extremely
experienced warrior who just settled down and the local librarian
turns out to be a powerful wizard etc.
/Erik
alwhipp
Bill Seurer wrote:
>
>
> That's at conventions only. Heck, I think half the people at in my
> normal group just show up for the chatting. Sometimes we actually
> get some gaming in!
>
> Now other people may feel differently, but it's been my experience that
> a lot of groups are this way.
> --
Yes. The groups I'm in show up mostly for gabbing. It is a bit annoying
at conventions, but I can't be bothered with conventions anymore anyway.
(not enough useless talking).
Al
Rook
wab...@execpc.com (Earl A Kwallek) writes:
ro...@ix.netcom.co says...
>>
>>A sample way I might do a fantasy game:
>>Plot: rescue dragon from evil princess.
>>Where: kingdom of "Thornberry", village and castle stuff.
>>Starts in village of "goodham".
>>How: Pc's travelling through see little Jackie Paper crying in
street.
>> Jackie asks most heroic looking pc to find his friend Puff living
>>in local cave.
>>Notes: Dragon was captured by evil princess in nearby castle to use
in
>>some horrific spell.
>>Major NPC's : Jackie (Child, normal), Puff (Dragon, Powerful),
Princess
>>Magdalyne (Sorceress, V. Powerful).
>>Hooks: senile king who thinks daughter is 'little angel'. Make it
>>silly...
>> Everything else happens as the PC's do their best...
> This has got to be the most disgusting plot I have ever seen - mind
if I
>steal it? :)
>
Have at it, just don't forget the gay prince,the singing frog
paladin, or the hippie demon familiar with shades and a joint...
Not to mention the Fairy godmother in 'leather' who looks
suspiciously like Rupaul...
Plots like that came from the late night games...
Rook
Ryan Secan
Here's how I feel: Hasn't anyone ever heard of SARCASM? I know it is a
little more difficult to detect when it is written rather than spoken,
but come on! It should be obvious that in Deadly Sin #6 the poster was
being sarcastic and really saying that obeying the rules to the letter
regardless of the situation is the "Deadly Sin"
Ryan
Ben K. Krauskopf
Lee Gold wrote:
> Sounds a lot like our group. We'll drift off onto a side-topic
> and chatter on for some time until the cry goes up of "Back to
> Japan!" (or to the ASteroids, or whatever).
Back to Reality! That's what our group says when we want to get back
to the game.
--
Ben Krauskopf
Anyone in College Station, TX interested in an ongoing AD&D campaign
where the emphasis is on roleplay rather than combat? If so, please
mail: bkk...@tamaix.tamu.edu
rosalyn rice
In article <327217fd...@asterix.rby.hk-r.se>,
>I know one GM who just can't stand it when the PCs get cocky and foul
>around with for example villagers. The result is that when playing
>with him you can be sure that the innkeeper is an old, extremely
>experienced warrior who just settled down and the local librarian
>turns out to be a powerful wizard etc.
I occasionally like to pull this trick. A perfectly ordinary
person who has remarkable powers is fun.
My favorite was a random encounter that turned into a major NPC.
The PCs were skulking around the countryside at night, one of them failed
a Stealth roll very badly, so I had them run into a "random encounter". I
did my usual "random dice" thing. I asked myself how threatening the
encounter was, and I rolled very low. I came up with the idea of an aging
farmer out in his fields before dawn. I then rolled reaction for the
farmer and they came out high. The party surprised him, but he wasn't
afraid, nor was he hostile.
Since the party needed a guide, they asked him for help. Reaction
roll was excellent. I suddenly needed to create an NPC. I rolled 3d6 with
3 being bad, and 18 being incredible. I rolled an 18. Suddenly, the aging,
perfectly ordinary farmer turned into a retired NCO with a list of combat
decorations as long as your arm and a flair for reconnaissance and
commando raids.
Thomas Barnes
Hamilton Meyer
Erik Starck wrote:
>
> >I had a great GM who would get incredibly inspired to run a new type of
> >campaign, plan it out in detail, run 1d3 great sessions, then get fired
> >up about _another_ great idea, drop the unfinished story, and start
> >over. And over. And over. Etc.
>
> Kind of recognize myself in that.
>
> around with for example villagers. The result is that when playing
> with him you can be sure that the innkeeper is an old, extremely
> experienced warrior who just settled down and the local librarian
> turns out to be a powerful wizard etc.
>
Sort of a running gag in my group; most bars have a big nasty weapon behind the bar (often in
plane view) labeled "Piece Maker." In one game, it was a magic baseball bat, in another it was a
2H-Sword, in another a plasmatic repeater. Just a reminder to the PCs that bar brawls aren't going
to be easy.
Rook
Archangel Beth <emc...@nh.ultranet.com> writes:
>>Alicia Smith (le...@metapro.com.au) wrote:
>>: "You see in the distance a dark brooding castle"
>>: "Hey, that isn't on the map!"
>>: Innocent look. " No. It's not, is it?"
>
>before or not. (I.e., if the castle just *appeared* somewhere,
>the GM had better have a good reason why it wasn't there
>the last time the PCs went by...) And if they turn around
>and ignore the castle, it needs to stay put.
>the blank places on the map were and plop the castle down at
>the earliest opportunity no matter what, if I had to
>have a castle.
>
This all reminds me of a fantasy game years back. The GM had a very
intresting way of getting us to realize that he really wanted to
investigate the dungeon off in the distance. He had the Monster's Union
local #401 outside with picket signs protesting low wages and harsh
working conditions from the "evil neferious wizard" who owned the
place.
I don't think that particular GM was capable of doing a serious
game...
Rook
Terry Austin
Archangel Beth <emc...@nh.ultranet.com> wrote:
>Schrodringering
Blast you! I won't be able to sleep tonight until I can actually
pronouce this!
>dubiosity...)
At least this one doesn't make my tongue hurt.
---------------------------------
Terry Austin, Companion of Loyal Order of Chivalry & Sorcery
Hyperbooks Online Bookstore
Coming soon: Guns, Guns, Guns by BTRC in Acrobat®
format, with an Excel spreadsheet to make it easy!
http://www.hyperbooks.com/
---------------------------------
Hamilton Meyer
little comment in parrens would have helped.