Unsure about Shields
Djoran Keil
If one has a shield and uses the sheild skill then how is this more advantageous than simply parrying? The shield and
parry scores would be the same yes? Or does the PD of the shield bump up their total defense score? With the sheild
skill, is one supposed to roll against their skill everytime they use it?
As I understand the rules to be I find that they make shields all but useless. Could someone please explain to me so
that my simple mind can understand?
Thanks in advance
DDK
--
aka
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Geoffrey Brent
<37119CEB...@ihug.com.au>...
> I do not quite understand the nature of sheild usage in the GURPS system.
>
> If one has a shield and uses the sheild skill then how is this more
advantageous than simply parrying? The shield and
> parry scores would be the same yes? Or does the PD of the shield bump up
their total defense score? With the sheild
> skill, is one supposed to roll against their skill everytime they use it?
>
> As I understand the rules to be I find that they make shields all but
useless. Could someone please explain to me so
> that my simple mind can understand?
Shields give you two things: a passive defence and an active
defence.
The PD depends on the size of the shield, and you get that
bonus no matter _what_ defence you're using. The Block
defence (1/2 Shield skill) can be used as an alternative to
Dodge or Parry.
If your weapon of choice is something like a broadsword,
there's not much reason to buy up the Shield skill; you can
parry just as well as you can block, and you only have to
buy up one skill rather than two. But using a shield is still
handy, since it adds to your PD and that also improves
your parry.
For instance, Joe Smith has Broadsword-12, Shield-10,
and a Large Shield (PD +4.) His basic Parry is 6 (1/2
Broadsword skill), which is pretty miserable, but the +4
from his shield raises that to 10 - much more useful.
His Block would only be 9, so Parry is preferable, but
even if he doesn't Block the shield comes in handy.
Where a shield is really useful, in GURPS terms, is
if you have an unbalanced weapon. If you parry with
an axe, it becomes unready, and you have to miss
an action to ready it again; but if you have a shield
on your other arm, you can block the attack without
unreadying your axe. Shields can also be useful if
you're using the weapon breakage rules and don't
want to risk your sword.
Geoffrey Brent
William Allman
>
> If your weapon of choice is something like a broadsword,
> there's not much reason to buy up the Shield skill; you can
> parry just as well as you can block, and you only have to
> buy up one skill rather than two.
Another good reason to buy up Shield even if you have a balanced
weapon: you can normally only Parry once per round. And even Shield-10
is probably better than your Dodge if you're wearing good armor.
-Will
Andrew Priestley
Geoffrey Brent wrote:
> Djoran Keil <it...@ihug.com.au> wrote in article
> <37119CEB...@ihug.com.au>...
> > I do not quite understand the nature of sheild usage in the GURPS system.
> >
> > If one has a shield and uses the sheild skill then how is this more
> advantageous than simply parrying? The shield and
> > parry scores would be the same yes? Or does the PD of the shield bump up
> their total defense score? With the sheild
> > skill, is one supposed to roll against their skill everytime they use it?
> >
> > As I understand the rules to be I find that they make shields all but
> useless. Could someone please explain to me so
> > that my simple mind can understand?
>
> Shields give you two things: a passive defence and an active
> defence.
>
> The PD depends on the size of the shield, and you get that
> bonus no matter _what_ defence you're using. The Block
> defence (1/2 Shield skill) can be used as an alternative to
> Dodge or Parry.
>
> If your weapon of choice is something like a broadsword,
> there's not much reason to buy up the Shield skill; you can
> parry just as well as you can block, and you only have to
> buy up one skill rather than two. But using a shield is still
> handy, since it adds to your PD and that also improves
> your parry.
Accurate in effect, but inaccurate in expression (though its only a matter of
semantics)
The PD of the Shield adds to your total defense roll which is an aggregate of
your Active Defense (Parry, Block or Dodge) and your Passive Defenses (Armor,
Shield and Toughness) which are added together in whatever combination is used,
to yield a single number. Having a Shield adds its PD to your defense roll,
not specifically to your ability to Parry, Block or Dodge.
The effects of all below are accurate though, just change the term Parry where
the aggregate of the Shield PD and the Parry score are added together to yield
a single number, into Defense, and you are clear as a bell. Accurate and
consistent use of terms helps to keep things clear, especially for beginners.
>
>
> For instance, Joe Smith has Broadsword-12, Shield-10,
> and a Large Shield (PD +4.) His basic Parry is 6 (1/2
> Broadsword skill), which is pretty miserable, but the +4
> from his shield raises that to 10 - much more useful.
> His Block would only be 9, so Parry is preferable, but
> even if he doesn't Block the shield comes in handy.
>
> Where a shield is really useful, in GURPS terms, is
> if you have an unbalanced weapon. If you parry with
> an axe, it becomes unready, and you have to miss
> an action to ready it again; but if you have a shield
> on your other arm, you can block the attack without
> unreadying your axe. Shields can also be useful if
> you're using the weapon breakage rules and don't
> want to risk your sword.
>
Historically, the shield was a critical part of any soldiers kit from the Stone
Age until the early Rennaissance when plate armors reached practical
development. The shield provided a layer of solid protection from enemy weapons
that mail and other flexible armors did not provide, preventing many bruises,
broken bones and other wounds. Plate armor served the same purpose with less
weight and greater tactical flexibility than the shield allowed, thus the
shield gradually grew smaller and then eventually was left solely to heavy
cavalry lance use and tournament use, as plate armors developed. So for
practical purposes, if you are attempting any semblance of realism in your
medieval/fantasy characters, any warrior not armed in full plate should have a
shield when expecting or being prepared for combat. A knight walking through
his home town and not on military duty, would probably not carry a shield,
though he would probably carry a sword and dagger, and his armor would be
limited. If he's at all expecting trouble, probably the first thing he would
reach for would be his sword, then his shield, after that a helmet, and if he's
got time, he would take the time to be armored.
Practically speaking, a sword doesn't really like parrying other weapons. It
may be relatively good at it because of its relative agility and balance, but
its construction isn't particularly suited to it. The way the blade is
oriented in the hand for offensive striking, indexes the edge forward, so when
parrying, you are naturally going to present the edge of the weapon to receive
the blow from the other weapon, destroying the edge at the point of impact,
typically placing a significant notch in it. Also, you are typically going to
receive strokes in the same region of the blade all the time, out of habit, so
that section is ging to get pretty beat up over the course of a battle, and
over several battles, may become deeply eroded. All it takes then is one good
hit from a heavy weapon, and the sword might shear through ending its utility.
Adding into consideration the comparitive expense of a sword, which was made at
the absolute leading edge of metallurgy in whatever time it is used, and
allowing the sword to be damaged un-necessarily becomes about as intelligent as
using a Mercedes in a demolition derby. Later on, as swords became lighter and
steel became more durable, it became more practical to use the sword as your
primary defensive weapon, but through most of the medieval period, where sword
steel was only barely classifiable as steel per se, it just was more practical
to let your shield take most of the defensive damage as was practical.
So while the GURPS numbers may not represent the importance of the shield as
accurately as some would like (me), the system does provide the shield with
utility by allowing it to add to PD, thus representing some of its general
utility over a sword only combat style. For a player seeking to really
represent a more historically realistic character, a shield is almost a must.
Munchkins may see the added point or two of defensive capability as being
offset by the weight of the things and the reduction in other gear that can be
carried, but the fact that seasoned warriors carried shields as a critical part
of the gear until the full adoption of plate, is a clear indicator of their
real utility.
Iceman
Claus Rasmussen
Gurps differentiates between two types of defence: Passive and active
Passive defence is derived from armour and shields - they have PD ratings.
Active defences - Parry, Block and Dodge - are derived from combat skills -
such as Broadsword and Shield - and the Basic Speed of the character in the
case of Dodge.
Passive defence is always in place to protect you. If you didn't see it
coming, and the location hit has PD, you have a chance that the attack will
glance off the armour/shield: Roll PD - or 4 (whichever is higher) - or less
on 3d6. Your PD is the *total* of Armour and Shield PD (if attacked from the
front or left side, otherwise it's just armour PD).
Active defence comes in when you *did* see it coming. Then you want to
actively try to avoid being hit (unless you're truly macho ;-)). This can be
done with the aforementioned Parry, Block or Dodge Active defences. Parry
and Block are calculated by the formula: 1/2*Skill (Broadsword, Shield,
Axe/Mace, Buckler, etc.), round down (some weapons will use the formula:
Parry=2/3*skill)
The number you get from this formula is *added* to the passive defence the
location already has. The final total is your defence score. To sum up:
Block = PD armour + PD shield + Shield Skill (or Buckler) * 1/2
Parry = PD armour + PD shield + Weapon Skill * 1/2 (or *2/3 in some cases)
Dodge = PD armour + PD Shield + Dodge score
You may Parry and Block only once pr. turn each, unless you're all-out
defending. You can Dodge all you want.
Hope this was clear enough
Wrath
Thomas Ackermann
> Munchkins may see the added point or two of defensive capability as being
> offset by the weight of the things and the reduction in other gear that can
> be carried, but the fact that seasoned warriors carried shields as a critical
> part of the gear until the full adoption of plate, is a clear indicator of
> their real utility.
> Iceman
The Munchkins i know would *always* use a shield of course!
Two lowly thugs can get you down easily when you can only Parry one attack
and dodge the other. The ability to defend against two attacks while still
be able to attack is *very* usefull and an argument for shields without
any other reason needed ...
Byebye,
--
Thomas Ackermann | Tel. +49-(0)228/631369|73-7773 | <t...@math.uni-bonn.de>
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Arne Jamtgaard
> Accurate in effect, but inaccurate in expression (though its only a
> matter of semantics)
> The PD of the Shield adds to your total defense roll which is an
> aggregate of your Active Defense (Parry, Block or Dodge) and your
> Passive Defenses (Armor, Shield and Toughness) which are added
> together in whatever combination is used, to yield a single number.
Mostly accurate - Toughness doesn't add to Passive Defenses. It adds
to Damage Resistance.
Arne
Michael Cule
defend is simple but easily overlooked.
Shield is a Physical/Easy skill, the skills for the weapon you're attacking
with are mostly Physical/Average or harder. This makes a difference mostly
at low point levels I admit but still provides a slight edge to the shield
user above the guy who is using his weapon to parry with.
And you have to have a shield anyway to get the PD from it.
--
Michael Cule
Actor And Genius
AKA Theophilus Prince Archbishop Of The Far Isles Medieval Society
Arms Purpure An Open Book Proper: On the Dexter Page an Alpha Or
On the Sinister an Omega Or. Motto Nulla Spes Sit in Resistendo
(Resistance is Useless). Ask me about the Far Isles:
Better Living through Pan-Medieval Anachronisms.
Bryan J. Maloney
> I do not quite understand the nature of sheild usage in the GURPS system.
>
> If one has a shield and uses the sheild skill then how is this more
> advantageous than simply parrying? The shield and
Shield use:
Parry with shield equals half of shield skill PLUS PD of the shield.
Thus, unskilled shield use counts for far less than does skilled shield
use. Using a shield requires using it to parry. It is not automatic.
--
To women contemplating marriage: The question you should ask is not
"How much do I love him?" The real question is "How much can I
tolerate him?"
http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/bjm10/
Bryan J. Maloney
<t...@math.uni-bonn.de> wrote:
> The Munchkins i know would *always* use a shield of course!
> Two lowly thugs can get you down easily when you can only Parry one attack
> and dodge the other. The ability to defend against two attacks while still
> be able to attack is *very* usefull and an argument for shields without
> any other reason needed ...
Of course, in the real world, street thugs used to regularly carry some
sort of shield--very often a buckler. This was replaced by the parrying
dagger in the mid to late 16th century.
Rob
Djoran Keil wrote:
> I do not quite understand the nature of sheild usage in the GURPS system.
>
> If one has a shield and uses the sheild skill then how is this more advantageous than simply parrying?
First, shields give you their passive defense. However, just carrying a shield, with out any skill does that also. The
most important part is it gives you another defense roll. In a turn you are allowed as many dodges as you need. You are
only allowed (normaly) one parry! Having shield skill allows a block roll in addition to the parry. True, this is
useless, if you are fighting one on one as you can normally defend only once per attack (except for all out defense).
Shield skill is a lifesaver if you face multiple opponents, or have a slow weapon such as an axe.
> The shield and parry scores would be the same yes? Or does the PD of the shield bump up their total defense score?
Shield PD adds to defense roll for parry, block, or dodge.
> With the sheild skill, is one supposed to roll against their skill everytime they use it?
Only if you choose to block an attack. And then its just a defense roll (Skill/2 + PD from shield and armor)
>
>
> As I understand the rules to be I find that they make shields all but useless. Could someone please explain to me so
> that my simple mind can understand?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> DDK
>
Hope this helps
Rob
Rob Kelk
>
> I do not quite understand the nature of sheild usage in the GURPS
> system.
>
> If one has a shield and uses the sheild skill then how is this more
> parry scores would be the same yes? Or does the PD of the shield bump
> skill, is one supposed to roll against their skill everytime they use
> it?
>
> useless. Could someone please explain to me so
> that my simple mind can understand?
In GURPS, the Block score is half of the character's Shield skill, plus
the PD of the shield itself. The higher your Shield skill, the higher
your Block score. You don't get to roll against your Shield skill to
defend yourself.
You _do_ get to roll against your Shield skill when you use a shield
offensively. If you wanted to punch someone while you have a shield in
your hand (perhaps because that's the only weapon you have), you'd roll
against the Shield skill. Unfortunately, I can't find any rules for
attacking with a shield in the Basic Set or the Compendium volumes. (I
vaugely recall seeing something in GURPS Vikings, but I'm not sure about
that...)
> Thanks in advance
>
> DDK
--
Rob Kelk
rob...@ottawa.com
Aaron Pound
>
> >I do not quite understand the nature of sheild usage in the GURPS system.
Note that it is also more economical to spend points on Shield than it
is to spend it on a weapon skill and try to parry. Shield is P/E, the
only muscle powered weapon skills that are P/E are Spear Throwing,
Knife, Axe Throwing, Blackjack and Crossbow none of which are very good
for parrying.
Therefore you can spend sixteen points and have:
(a) Broadsword at DX+3; or
(b) Broadsword at DX+2 and Shield at DX+3
The warrior with the shield is likely to be more effective overall,
because he can block more attacks per round and block missile attacks
while the parry-only warrior is limited to one parry per round and then
he's dodging.
Aaron J. Pound, Esq.
Geoffrey Brent
to
>defend is simple but easily overlooked.
>
>Shield is a Physical/Easy skill, the skills for the weapon you're
attacking
>with are mostly Physical/Average or harder. This makes a difference mostly
>at low point levels I admit but still provides a slight edge to the shield
>user above the guy who is using his weapon to parry with.
Not a lot. What you gain by improving a P/E skill rather than a
P/A one, you generally lose again because you're splitting
your points over two skills rather than one. Average Joe with
Dx 10 can buy Broadsword-10 for 2 points, or Broadsword-9
and Shield-10 for 2 points. Either gives him a defence of 5,
plus PD, but the first one also gives him a better attack roll.
Broadsword-11 costs 4 points, so does Broadsword-10 and
Shield-11.
Andrew Priestley made some good points on why shields
are desirable IRL and why parrying with a broadsword is
not a good option IRL; unfortunately the rules don't go a
long way to reflect this. I might fix this by using the Weapon
Damage rules and applying the attacker's normal damage
roll to any weapon that successfully parries a swinging
edged weapon.
>And you have to have a shield anyway to get the PD from it.
This is true, but you don't need any shield skill to get the PD.
Geoffrey Brent
Matthew J Wilson
>Andrew Priestley made some good points on why shields
>are desirable IRL and why parrying with a broadsword is
>not a good option IRL; unfortunately the rules don't go a
>long way to reflect this. I might fix this by using the Weapon
>Damage rules and applying the attacker's normal damage
>roll to any weapon that successfully parries a swinging
>edged weapon.
I've always gotten the feeling that the idea behind a parry is to deflect,
rather than block, though, specifically to minimise weapon breakages.
Perhaps divide the rolled damage (going to the weapon on a successful
parry) by the success margin of the parry? That would happen after taking
effects of PD, armour damage and shield damage, though.
That also brings in the difference between an attack aimed at the weapon,
and a normal attack that's been parried.
--
Matt.
BOINK!
<g.b...@NOS.PAM.student.unsw.edu.au> wrote:
>Djoran Keil <it...@ihug.com.au> wrote in article
><37119CEB...@ihug.com.au>...
>> I do not quite understand the nature of sheild usage in the GURPS system.
>>
>> If one has a shield and uses the sheild skill then how is this more
>advantageous than simply parrying? The shield and
>> parry scores would be the same yes? Or does the PD of the shield bump up
>their total defense score? With the sheild
>> skill, is one supposed to roll against their skill everytime they use it?
>>
>> As I understand the rules to be I find that they make shields all but
>useless. Could someone please explain to me so
>> that my simple mind can understand?
>
>Shields give you two things: a passive defence and an active
>defence.
>
>The PD depends on the size of the shield, and you get that
>bonus no matter _what_ defence you're using. The Block
>defence (1/2 Shield skill) can be used as an alternative to
>Dodge or Parry.
>
>If your weapon of choice is something like a broadsword,
>there's not much reason to buy up the Shield skill;
I don't know about that. Shield is PE and Broadsword is PA. You can
buy up that shield a lot faster.
Sakura
Geoffrey Brent <g.b...@NOS.PAM.student.unsw.edu.au> wrote:
>>
>>Shield is a Physical/Easy skill, the skills for the weapon you're
>attacking
>>with are mostly Physical/Average or harder. This makes a difference mostly
>>at low point levels I admit but still provides a slight edge to the shield
>>user above the guy who is using his weapon to parry with.
>
>Not a lot. What you gain by improving a P/E skill rather than a
>P/A one, you generally lose again because you're splitting
>your points over two skills rather than one. Average Joe with
>Dx 10 can buy Broadsword-10 for 2 points, or Broadsword-9
>and Shield-10 for 2 points. Either gives him a defence of 5,
>plus PD, but the first one also gives him a better attack roll.
>Broadsword-11 costs 4 points, so does Broadsword-10 and
>Shield-11.
So...for 4 points you can have:
Broadsword - 11 Broadsword - 11 Broadsword - 10
No Shield Shield - default Shield - 11
* One attack at 11 * One attack at 11 * One attack at 10
* One parry at 5 + PD * One parry at 5 + PD * One parry at 5 + PD
* One block at 3 + PD * One block at 6 + PD
* Defense vs. missiles * Defense vs. missiles
* Shield bash, shield
rush
So: even if you don't have Shield skill, it's much better to carry a
shield than not to - especially if the enemy has bows, spears, javelins,
slings, house pets, or other thrown weapons. Spending points on Shield
/greatly/ increases your second defense (important if you fight multiple
opponents) and also increases your tactical options - don't underestimate
the power of a good shield rush!
J
--
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Peter Janik
Rob Kelk wrote:
[ snip ]
> In GURPS, the Block score is half of the character's Shield skill, plus
> the PD of the shield itself. The higher your Shield skill, the higher
> your Block score. You don't get to roll against your Shield skill to
> defend yourself.
>
> You _do_ get to roll against your Shield skill when you use a shield
> offensively. If you wanted to punch someone while you have a shield in
> your hand (perhaps because that's the only weapon you have), you'd roll
> against the Shield skill. Unfortunately, I can't find any rules for
> attacking with a shield in the Basic Set or the Compendium volumes. (I
> vaugely recall seeing something in GURPS Vikings, but I'm not sure about
> that...)
Index anyone?
p.123 in my Basic at least. "Shield bashes" and "Shield rushes".
And there is the ability to block missiles to consider also.
Tried parrying arrows lately? Me neither.
Greetings
Peter
-------------------------------------------------
"DEATH TO ALL FANATICS"
"The only skills I have the patience to learn are those that have no
real application in life" - Calvin
Rob Kelk
<snip>
> > Unfortunately, I can't find any rules for
> > attacking with a shield in the Basic Set or the Compendium volumes. (I
> > vaugely recall seeing something in GURPS Vikings, but I'm not sure about
> > that...)
>
> Index anyone?
> p.123 in my Basic at least. "Shield bashes" and "Shield rushes".
D'oh!
> And there is the ability to block missiles to consider also.
> Tried parrying arrows lately? Me neither.
Good point...
> Greetings
>
> Peter
--
Rob Kelk
rob...@ottawa.com
MaGnUs
I pretty much agree with you , i played some LARPs and even if weapons
are all extremly light ( and can be seen as balanced ) , gamers whith a
shield were winning most of the fightings .
MaGnUs
Geoffrey Brent
>p.123 in my Basic at least. "Shield bashes" and "Shield rushes".
>
>Tried parrying arrows lately? Me neither.
It can be done (both IRL and under GURPS rules, see
"Parry Missile Weapon"), although it's by no means
easy.
One disadvantage with using a shield IRL is that it
obscures _your_ vision too. If you pop your head out
from behind the shield to see what's going on just
in time to take an arrow, it makes you look really bad :-)
One of the reasons why dodging should be more
popular than it is.
Geoffrey Brent
Geoffrey Brent
system.
>
>is to spend it on a weapon skill and try to parry. Shield is P/E, the
>only muscle powered weapon skills that are P/E are Spear Throwing,
>Knife, Axe Throwing, Blackjack and Crossbow none of which are very good
>for parrying.
>
>Therefore you can spend sixteen points and have:
>
>(a) Broadsword at DX+3; or
>(b) Broadsword at DX+2 and Shield at DX+3
>
>The warrior with the shield is likely to be more effective overall,
>because he can block more attacks per round
Only if he's All-Out Defending. And if he's in a situation
where he's being attacked twice per round and he's not
getting a chance to attack his opponents, then his
chances don't look good to me. You can't win a fight
without striking blows, and if you defend for long enough
someone'll hit you eventually. Or chop through your
shield, if you're using those rules.
Of course, if you're just trying to avoid getting hit,
with no plans to counter-attack, you might be better
off ditching the shield entirely and running away :-)
>and block missile attacks
True. If you really don't like shields you _can_ learn
Parry Missile, but that's more expensive point-wise.
Geoffrey Brent
Sakura
Geoffrey Brent <g.b...@NOS.PAM.student.unsw.edu.au> wrote:
>>The warrior with the shield is likely to be more effective overall,
>>because he can block more attacks per round
>
>Only if he's All-Out Defending.
Not really true - having the shield there gives you 1 extra active defense
per round.
No Shield Shield
* 1 parry * 1 parry
* 1 block
* Unlimited dodges * Unlimited dodges
Of course, you don't /need/ Shield skill to get that block, since you can
use it at default - but your chance to Block goes /way/ up if you spend
even a couple of points on Shield.
>>and block missile attacks
>
>True. If you really don't like shields you _can_ learn
>Parry Missile, but that's more expensive point-wise.
*Much* more expensive. Parry Missiles is P/H, isn't it? And your chance
to parry a missile is a lot lower than your chance to Block it...
Geoffrey Brent
<7f25sk$o98$1...@hiram.io.com>...
> Not really true - having the shield there gives you 1 extra active
defense
> per round.
>
> No Shield Shield
> * 1 parry * 1 parry
> * 1 block
> * Unlimited dodges * Unlimited dodges
Does it? I thought you only got two defences if you all-out-
defended; I'll have to check the rules again.
> >>and block missile attacks
> >
> >True. If you really don't like shields you _can_ learn
> >Parry Missile, but that's more expensive point-wise.
>
> *Much* more expensive. Parry Missiles is P/H, isn't it? And your chance
> to parry a missile is a lot lower than your chance to Block it...
P/A, and your chance to parry is half skill, same as with
a shield. The advantages of using a weapon to parry are
(1) you don't risk getting the shield nailed to your arm
(a possibility if you're using the optional rules for penetrating
shields), (2) you're not blocking your own view, and (3)
shields are heavy. OTOH, the PD bonus is always nice.
Geoffrey Brent
|MAniC|
Saying that a person wearing a shield gets the PD bonus of the shield
at all times is ridiculous. A shield is an extraneous piece of
equipment, it does not cover the body like armour does and therefore
should not grant its PD bonus at all times.
For instance, if you are parrying then you have your sword arm closer
to the enemy and will also have your body facing the enemy as well.
Consequently your shield will be AWAY from the enemy and will not be
protecting you at all. So to fix all these problems I say don't add
the PD bonus when Parrying. That would make far more sense and also
make shields practical rather than just another annoyance.
MAniC
--
Anarchy is just another word for social self-control in the absence of
a policing force. Govern yourself and you don't need someone to govern you.
Matthew J Wilson
>Shields usage needs adjusting.
>Saying that a person wearing a shield gets the PD bonus of the shield
>at all times is ridiculous. A shield is an extraneous piece of
>equipment, it does not cover the body like armour does and therefore
>should not grant its PD bonus at all times.
It doesn't. A shield provides PD only against attacks from the front or
the shield side, in general.
>For instance, if you are parrying then you have your sword arm closer
>to the enemy and will also have your body facing the enemy as well.
>Consequently your shield will be AWAY from the enemy and will not be
>protecting you at all. So to fix all these problems I say don't add
>the PD bonus when Parrying. That would make far more sense and also
>make shields practical rather than just another annoyance.
What stops you from using a shield to help parry? It's not like your
shield arm is strapped to your body - it can move around. Assuming you
are, indeed, side-on to the weapon you're parrying.
--
Matt.
Andy Staples
> house pets, or other thrown weapons.
You're a sick man, Jeff. I like it.
So what kind of range are we going to get out of (for instance) a
housecat, and how much damage will it do when it hits?
It should also be possible to use a cat as a melee weapon, provided
you've enough room to swing it.
Can someone reality check this? I'm afraid I no longer have access to a
cat. Look, it was Schrodinger's idea, not mine...
--
Andy Staples (andy.s...@minarsas.demon.co.uk)
That very night in Max's room a forest grew, and grew, and grew, until his
ceiling hung with vines, and the walls became the world all around.
- Maurice Sendak, "Where the Wild Things Are".
|MAniC|
Well now, it very much depends on whether the cat is alive or dead. If
the cat were alive then you would have to add some type of speed
penalty for picking it up in the first place (fast-draw: cats,
alive?), cats tend not to like being picked up you see.
Now if it were swung like a mace I would suppose that you would use
mace statistics minus a few points because of their softness. However,
cats also tend to extend their claws when afraid or angry and seeing
as the cat would most likely be distressed in such a situation you can
assume that they have their claws extended and can therefore add a
point or two for scratching damage.
Throwing the cat would be a slightly different ball game. The first
hit one could assume, maybe, club damage and claw damage as above but
in subsequent turns the cat would have to use its own attack forms.
Any parry successful parry could be considered as a grab and although
the cat would then gain automatic claw damage the victim should be
able to throw the cat away, maybe even back to his opponent. This is
of course assuming the cat was not a trained commando familiar...
Gregory L. Hansen
|MAniC| <manicp...@excite.com> wrote:
>Andy Staples wrote:
>>
>> Sakura <je...@schultz-2.io.com> writes
>> > house pets, or other thrown weapons.
>>
>> You're a sick man, Jeff. I like it.
>>
>> So what kind of range are we going to get out of (for instance) a
>> housecat, and how much damage will it do when it hits?
>>
>> It should also be possible to use a cat as a melee weapon, provided
>> you've enough room to swing it.
>>
>> Can someone reality check this? I'm afraid I no longer have access to a
>> cat. Look, it was Schrodinger's idea, not mine...
>> --
>> Andy Staples (andy.s...@minarsas.demon.co.uk)
>>
>> That very night in Max's room a forest grew, and grew, and grew, until his
>> ceiling hung with vines, and the walls became the world all around.
>> - Maurice Sendak, "Where the Wild Things Are".
>
>Well now, it very much depends on whether the cat is alive or dead. If
>the cat were alive then you would have to add some type of speed
>penalty for picking it up in the first place (fast-draw: cats,
>alive?), cats tend not to like being picked up you see.
You must not treat your cats well. Mine loves to be picked up.
>Now if it were swung like a mace I would suppose that you would use
>mace statistics minus a few points because of their softness. However,
>cats also tend to extend their claws when afraid or angry and seeing
>as the cat would most likely be distressed in such a situation you can
>assume that they have their claws extended and can therefore add a
>point or two for scratching damage.
I'd say no damage. Hitting someone with a cat is like hitting someone
with a pillow, except for the claws. The cat would need to make a
seperate hit roll.
>Throwing the cat would be a slightly different ball game. The first
>hit one could assume, maybe, club damage and claw damage as above but
>in subsequent turns the cat would have to use its own attack forms.
When a cat's thrown at you, it's soft and fluffy on impact and only uses
its claws to avoid falling down. So it could hurt, but I wouldn't think
that ranks for damage. Not unless the cat is really pissed off at you and
decides to do something about it while its hanging there. If the cat hits
you hard enough to do blunt damage, it'll probably just fall to the ground
stunned or dead.
--
The above opinions are licensed from Microsoft Corporation.
|MAniC|
But, but, if it is thrown REALLY hard then strength damage would
surely count...
Sakura
|MAniC| <manicp...@excite.com> wrote:
>
>Saying that a person wearing a shield gets the PD bonus of the shield
>at all times is ridiculous. A shield is an extraneous piece of
>equipment, it does not cover the body like armour does and therefore
>should not grant its PD bonus at all times.
If you're using the Advanced combat system, then it doesn't protect from
rear attacks or attacks from the non-shiueld side. In Basic Combat, it
protects when the GM says it does.
>For instance, if you are parrying then you have your sword arm closer
>to the enemy and will also have your body facing the enemy as well.
>Consequently your shield will be AWAY from the enemy and will not be
>protecting you at all.
Ummm. I'm not sure where you got this impression. I can still parry an
attack with my shield in front of me.
Stand up, with your left side facing the computer - your shield is forward
and your sword arm is back. You'd have trouble parrying directly in front
of you, sure, but if someone does a swing attack to your right side, you
can parry that with a sword...and if someone does a swing attack to the
left side if your head, you could parry that with a sword (arm over your
head, blade down).
Sakura
Geoffrey Brent <g.b...@NOS.PAM.student.unsw.edu.au> wrote:
>Sakura <je...@schultz-2.io.com> wrote in article
><7f25sk$o98$1...@hiram.io.com>...
>
>> Not really true - having the shield there gives you 1 extra active
>defense
>> per round.
>>
>> No Shield Shield
>> * 1 parry * 1 parry
>> * 1 block
>> * Unlimited dodges * Unlimited dodges
>
>Does it? I thought you only got two defences if you all-out-
>defended; I'll have to check the rules again.
AOD gives you two defenses *per attack*. I'm not claiming you'd get
another defense for a single attack...just another defense that round. Not
as useful if you're fighting one-on-one, but very nice if there are
multiple people attacking you.
>> >>and block missile attacks
>> >
>> >True. If you really don't like shields you _can_ learn
>> >Parry Missile, but that's more expensive point-wise.
>>
>> *Much* more expensive. Parry Missiles is P/H, isn't it? And your chance
>> to parry a missile is a lot lower than your chance to Block it...
>
>P/A,
Hmm...Kromm's page lists it as P/H...
> and your chance to parry is half skill, same as with
>a shield.
Well, if you learned PM because you didn't like using a shield, you're not
going to get the PD of a shield, so the person who spent the same points
on Block and is using a shield will have a /much/ better defense.
>The advantages of using a weapon to parry are
>(1) you don't risk getting the shield nailed to your arm
>(a possibility if you're using the optional rules for penetrating
>shields), (2) you're not blocking your own view, and (3)
>shields are heavy. OTOH, the PD bonus is always nice.
On the other hand, if you are disarmed or drop your weapon then you lose
your defense. The PD is also a /big/ help - I was surprised just /how/
helpful when I finally ran a character with a shield! As for the weight,
well, the extra defense more than offsets any loss to your Dodge from
Armor & Shield, and your warrior-types should have a nice high ST anyway.
8)
Sakura
Andy Staples <andy.s...@minarsas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Sakura <je...@schultz-2.io.com> writes
>> house pets, or other thrown weapons.
>
>You're a sick man, Jeff. I like it.
<bows> Domo arigato.
>So what kind of range are we going to get out of (for instance) a
>housecat, and how much damage will it do when it hits?
Um...range should be easily done on the Throwing table, no? It also
depends on the pet...you can get a lot more range out of a kitten then you
could a 22-lb monstrosity. Personally, I think poodles would be easier
(and more fun) to throw ...
>It should also be possible to use a cat as a melee weapon, provided
>you've enough room to swing it.
Sure, but then you could just parry it with a sword...if you use it as a
missile weapon the person needs Parry Missiles (probably at a bonus to
parry a cat, even bigger bonus to parry a Weimareiner or other large dog)
or have a shield (which was the original point, after all)
Coo...@yahoo.com
This brings to mind a campaign I ran (Fantasy/Supers, IIRC). One of the
characters threw cows at people. She also wore studded leather armour
inside out. I forget her name, but I think she became a nun in the
service of the god of Life.
Dr Kromm
> Sakura <je...@schultz-2.io.com> wrote in article
> <7f25sk$o98$1...@hiram.io.com>...
>> Not really true - having the shield there gives you 1 extra active
>> defense per round.
> Does it? I thought you only got two defences if you all-out-
> defended; I'll have to check the rules again.
On any given turn, you are entitled to one active defense per hand
-- either a parry (if you have a weapon) or a block (if you have a
buckler, cloak or shield) -- and any number of dodges. You may only
attempt one active defense vs. a given attack, however. What All-
Out Defense gives you is *two* active defenses per hand, as well as
the right to attempt a second, different active defense against an
attack should your first one fail. The usual source of confusion is
the number of defenses allowed in a turn vs. the number of defenses
allowed vs. one attack.
Kromm.
--
Sean M. Punch o E-mail: o 4122 rue Rivard
(a.k.a. Dr Kromm) | At SJG: kr...@io.com | Montreal, Quebec
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=o Local POP: kr...@cam.org o Canada H2L 4H9
GURPS Line Editor | WWW: | Home: (514) 288-9600
and Net Guru o http://www.io.com/~kromm o Work: (514) 288-9615
Andrew Priestley
Geoffrey Brent wrote:
> Sakura <je...@schultz-2.io.com> wrote in article
> <7f25sk$o98$1...@hiram.io.com>...
>
> > Not really true - having the shield there gives you 1 extra active
> defense
> > per round.
> >
> > No Shield Shield
> > * 1 parry * 1 parry
> > * 1 block
> > * Unlimited dodges * Unlimited dodges
>
> Does it? I thought you only got two defences if you all-out-
> defended; I'll have to check the rules again.
>
> > >>and block missile attacks
> > >
> > >True. If you really don't like shields you _can_ learn
> > >Parry Missile, but that's more expensive point-wise.
> >
> > *Much* more expensive. Parry Missiles is P/H, isn't it? And your chance
> > to parry a missile is a lot lower than your chance to Block it...
>
> P/A, and your chance to parry is half skill, same as with
> a shield. The advantages of using a weapon to parry are
> (1) you don't risk getting the shield nailed to your arm
> (a possibility if you're using the optional rules for penetrating
> shields), (2) you're not blocking your own view, and (3)
> shields are heavy. OTOH, the PD bonus is always nice.
It's PH in Compendium I, on page 135. The actual Parry is 1/2 of skill.
Keep in mind that learning how to parry missile weapons at skill 10 is going to
cost a Dex 10 man 4 points and yield a Parry score of 5, Blocking missile
weapons at skill level 10, will cost 1 point, for the same amount of character
points spent, the fighter can learn to block at skill level 12, with a Block
score of 6 against missiles or regular melee weapons, plus he gains the PD of
the shield.
The Basic Rules are sort of ambiguous in regards to how many active defenses
you may choose in a turn and retain the ability to attack. The rules state
that you may Parry once with a ready weapon and still attack in that turn so
long as the weapon does not become unready when used to parry. Likewise, it
states that you may Block once per turn with a ready shield and retain
attacking ability. It states that you may parry once with each weapon if you
have two weapons, without losing your attack. No specific mention is made as to
whether you can Parry and Block in a turn and still attack, I would assume so
since it allows you to parry and attack once each with two weapons in hand.
However...in All-out-Defense, you are allowed to Parry the same attack twice
with different weapons, or to parry and block an attack. The rules state that
you may parry twice and block twice in a single combat turn, but seems to
indicate that you cannot parry the same attack twice with the same weapon, so
it looks like for any individual attack you can parry it once and block it
once, and can address 2 seperate attack in a turn in this way.
Using the most liberal interpretation of these rules (as I understand them), in
a normal combat turn, a combatant can:
With balanced weapon and shield:
Parry once
Block once
attack once
Dodge unlimited
With two balanced weapons:
Parry once with each weapon (at minuses with the off-hand)
Attack once with each weapon (at minuses for the off-hand)
Dodge unlimited
All in all, the offensive advantage goes to the two-weapon combination, but doe
to the off-hand penalties for the second weapon, the defensive advantage goes
to the Shield user who blocks at full skill with his or her shield, plus gains
the PD advantage of the shield.
Iceman
Andrew Priestley
|MAniC| wrote:
> Shields usage needs adjusting.
>
> Saying that a person wearing a shield gets the PD bonus of the shield
> at all times is ridiculous. A shield is an extraneous piece of
> equipment, it does not cover the body like armour does and therefore
> should not grant its PD bonus at all times.
>
> For instance, if you are parrying then you have your sword arm closer
> to the enemy and will also have your body facing the enemy as well.
> Consequently your shield will be AWAY from the enemy and will not be
> protecting you at all. So to fix all these problems I say don't add
> the PD bonus when Parrying. That would make far more sense and also
> make shields practical rather than just another annoyance.
>
> MAniC
You may want to talk to some SCAers about that. Combat is not a static
situation where a person takes up a stance and flails away. Footing changes
constantly, as does facing. Mounting the shield on a flexible arm also allows
it to be moved to where the main threat is likely to come from...as best as is
possible without limiting other options too much.
Actually, I would suggest going back and reading the GURPS combat rules again,
then rereading them. Shield PD only protects the bearer to attacks coming from
the front hex and the shield-side hex. It doesn't protect from attacks to the
weapon-side or the rear. So if you are using the advanced combat rules and
tracking combat closely, you can track this well, if you don;t track combat in
this detail, you may choose to make adjustments, but should keep in mind that a
shield user is always going to do his or her best to keep their shield in play,
using the shield is part of their combat style, and they will know how to get
the most from it. A default user isn't going to be so good at this.
Iceman
Andy Luker
--
Andy Luker
an...@apjluker.freeserve.co.uk
>
>Using the most liberal interpretation of these rules (as I understand
them), in
>a normal combat turn, a combatant can:
>
>With balanced weapon and shield:
>Parry once
>Block once
>attack once
>Dodge unlimited
>
>With two balanced weapons:
>Parry once with each weapon (at minuses with the off-hand)
>Attack once with each weapon (at minuses for the off-hand)
>Dodge unlimited
>
Attack once with each weapon at -4 plus off hand penalty. "Dual weapon
attack" from Compendium 1pg 167 (and martial arts & swashbucklers).
Otherwise only 1 attack is allowed per turn unless all out attacking or
using various option combat rules (see the difference between Attack &
all-out-attack pg 96 basic book)
Kitarak
>Well now, it very much depends on whether the cat is alive or dead. If
>the cat were alive then you would have to add some type of speed
>penalty for picking it up in the first place (fast-draw: cats,
>alive?), cats tend not to like being picked up you see.
Ah. But as schrodinger (apparently) sugested the idea the cat is neither alive
nor dead, but a superposition of the two states. So what happens then?
--------------------------------------
Kitarak
Get rid of Spam to E-mail me.
What is easy becomes What is done.
What is done becomes Tradition
Traditions become Obsessive Compulsive Disorders
Obsessive Compulsive Disorders become Religions
Sakura
>Sakura <je...@schultz-2.io.com> wrote:
>
>>Sure, but then you could just parry it with a sword...if you use
>>it as a missile weapon the person needs Parry Missiles (probably
>>at a bonus to parry a cat, even bigger bonus to parry a
>>Weimareiner or other large dog) or have a shield (which was the
>>original point, after all)
>
>anything it's touching is considered being touched by the mage
>for the purposes of spell-casting.
>
>It might be a good idea to get a turtle or something else
>reasonably robust if you plan on doing this a lot.
"Bob, I told you that shrew was a lousy idea for a familiar."
As for winging a turtle at the opposition...shades of the Great God Om!
John Rowat
> Andy Staples <andy.s...@minarsas.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>It should also be possible to use a cat as a melee weapon, provided
>>you've enough room to swing it.
> Sure, but then you could just parry it with a sword...if you use it as a
> missile weapon the person needs Parry Missiles (probably at a bonus to
> parry a cat, even bigger bonus to parry a Weimareiner or other large dog)
> or have a shield (which was the original point, after all)
And what skill would you use? Feline Artillery, defaulting to Two-Handed
Axe-Mage -4?
-John
--
"Looking at the world / Through your innocent eyes
You're seeing the promises / No, they're only lies
And broken dreams"
-Black Sabbath, "Time Machine"
Andy Staples
>Ah. But as schrodinger (apparently) sugested the idea the cat is neither alive
>nor dead, but a superposition of the two states. So what happens then?
I don't know. If I open the box, I could kill the cat. And I couldn't do
that, now, could I?
Andy Staples
>As for winging a turtle at the opposition...shades of the Great God Om!
"Stand back! I've got a loaded tortoise, and I'm not afraid to use it."
"Just put the turtle down, son. Nobody has to get hurt."
Xiphias Gladius
>Um...range should be easily done on the Throwing table, no? It also
>depends on the pet...you can get a lot more range out of a kitten then you
>could a 22-lb monstrosity. Personally, I think poodles would be easier
>(and more fun) to throw ...
Toy or full-size?
I only know a couple people who could throw a full-size poodle.
And, once you're into THAT size range, you mught as well just start
hurling Volkswagens.
- Ian
--
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ian
SSBB Diplomatic Corps; Boston, Massachusetts
Matthew Henrichsen
> >> Not really true - having the shield there gives you 1 extra active
> >> defense per round.
>
> > defended; I'll have to check the rules again.
>
> -- either a parry (if you have a weapon) or a block (if you have a
> buckler, cloak or shield) -- and any number of dodges.
Unless both hands are used on the same weapon. i.e. a staff gets
only one parry per turn.
Matthew
Paul T.
Andy Staples <andy.s...@minarsas.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:F0lRONAi...@minarsas.demon.co.uk...
> Sakura <je...@schultz-2.io.com> writes
> >As for winging a turtle at the opposition...shades of the Great God Om!
>
> "Stand back! I've got a loaded tortoise, and I'm not afraid to use it."
>
> "Just put the turtle down, son. Nobody has to get hurt."
>
I can see the headlines.
"Two Men Killed Last Night."
-The weapon has been identified a slightly off-brownish
snapping turtle.
"Intern Says Some Hobo Mage Stole Her Pet Turtle"
"Group of Mage Wanna-be's Raid Pet Shop"
P.
Paul T.
Dr Kromm <kr...@dillinger.io.com> wrote in message
news:7f5458$rbs$1...@hiram.io.com...
> Geoffrey Brent <g.b...@NOS.PAM.student.unsw.edu.au> wrote:
> > Sakura <je...@schultz-2.io.com> wrote in article
> > <7f25sk$o98$1...@hiram.io.com>...
> >> Not really true - having the shield there gives you 1 extra active
> >> defense per round.
>
> > Does it? I thought you only got two defences if you all-out-
> > defended; I'll have to check the rules again.
>
> On any given turn, you are entitled to one active defense per hand
> -- either a parry (if you have a weapon) or a block (if you have a
> attempt one active defense vs. a given attack, however. What All-
> Out Defense gives you is *two* active defenses per hand, as well as
> the right to attempt a second, different active defense against an
> attack should your first one fail. The usual source of confusion is
> the number of defenses allowed in a turn vs. the number of defenses
> allowed vs. one attack.
Thanks, Kromm.
Uh... Just out of curiosity, where does that name come from?
Is it...a...a...you know... *ahem*... Illuminati thing?
P.
Paul T.
> > When a cat's thrown at you, it's soft and fluffy on impact and only uses
> > its claws to avoid falling down. So it could hurt, but I wouldn't think
> > that ranks for damage. Not unless the cat is really pissed off at you
and
> > decides to do something about it while its hanging there. If the cat
hits
> > you hard enough to do blunt damage, it'll probably just fall to the
ground
> > stunned or dead.
> > --
> > The above opinions are licensed from Microsoft Corporation.
>
> But, but, if it is thrown REALLY hard then strength damage would
> surely count...
Besides, there are some pretty fat cats out there.
Definitely some shock penalties for the next round, if not
some knockback.
Damage I'm having trouble seeing, though.
P.
Paul T.
|MAniC| <manicp...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:371559B4...@excite.com...
> Shields usage needs adjusting.
>
> Saying that a person wearing a shield gets the PD bonus of the shield
> at all times is ridiculous. A shield is an extraneous piece of
> equipment, it does not cover the body like armour does and therefore
> should not grant its PD bonus at all times.
>
> For instance, if you are parrying then you have your sword arm closer
> to the enemy and will also have your body facing the enemy as well.
> Consequently your shield will be AWAY from the enemy and will not be
> protecting you at all. So to fix all these problems I say don't add
> the PD bonus when Parrying. That would make far more sense and also
> make shields practical rather than just another annoyance.
Well, if you want to be really realistic...
Instead of using PD, just treat the shield as cover for the appropriate
areas. The opponent can now only hit the left (or right) side of the torso,
and probably with a big shield some other parts of the body, like
the shield arm and the head and legs would be harder to hit without
going through the shield.
That is, if you want that much complexity.
P.
Peter Erwin
>
>
> > > When a cat's thrown at you, it's soft and fluffy on impact and only uses
> > > its claws to avoid falling down. So it could hurt, but I wouldn't think
> > > that ranks for damage. Not unless the cat is really pissed off at you
>
> Damage I'm having trouble seeing, though.
Unless your opponent is severely allergic to cats, yes...
Of course, there was that old _What's New_ cartoon (Phil Foglio's strip
that ran in _The Dragon_ long ago), where it was explained that you should
take a cat into the dungeon with you. When the giant Rat Monster attacks,
throw the cat at it, and then run away while the monster's distracted!
-- Peter
Geoffrey Brent
<jjvR2.259$L66....@news1.giganews.com>...
> Well, if you want to be really realistic...
>
> Instead of using PD, just treat the shield as cover for the appropriate
> areas. The opponent can now only hit the left (or right) side of the
torso,
> and probably with a big shield some other parts of the body, like
> the shield arm and the head and legs would be harder to hit without
> going through the shield.
That's not bad against missile attacks you can't see (e.g.
bullets), but against anything you can see coming in a
shield is more effective than the same area of immovable
cover - because you can _move_ the shield to intercept
a blow. Someone who knows how to use a shield can
use a very small shield to catch blows just about anywhere
on their body. Standing with your knees slightly bent, wave
your left arm around - you should be able to get your
imaginary small shield covering anywhere from your knees
or lower to the top of your head. Bring it across your body
and you can catch a swing coming in from your right-hand
side, before it hits your body.
I've been told by SCA fighters that the better fighters tend
to use smaller shields - if you have the skill needed to put
the shield in the way of the attack, a small shield will block
just as well as a large one, and they're lighter and less tiring
to use. If you want protection against attacks you _don't_
notice in time (missiles, general chaos of battle rather than
a one-on-one fight, etc.) a big shield gets more useful, so
people tend to use much bigger shields in "war" scenarios
than they do in one-on-one.
Geoffrey Brent
Geoffrey Brent
> >> Not really true - having the shield there gives you 1 extra active
> >defense
> >> per round.
> >>
> >> No Shield Shield
> >> * 1 parry * 1 parry
> >> * 1 block
> >> * Unlimited dodges * Unlimited dodges
> >
> >Does it? I thought you only got two defences if you all-out-
> >defended; I'll have to check the rules again.
>
> AOD gives you two defenses *per attack*. I'm not claiming you'd get
> another defense for a single attack...just another defense that round.
Not
> as useful if you're fighting one-on-one, but very nice if there are
> multiple people attacking you.
I have to admit, I don't find AOD very useful. Every round you
AOD is one round where you have no chance of harming your
enemies (unless they do something really stupid like crit-
failing) and they still have _some_ chance of hurting you.
Unless you have some good reason to stall for time, what's
the point?
> >> *Much* more expensive. Parry Missiles is P/H, isn't it? And your
chance
> >> to parry a missile is a lot lower than your chance to Block it...
> >
> >P/A,
>
> Hmm...Kromm's page lists it as P/H...
I may be wrong then. My brain's been very fuzzy this week.
Geoffrey Brent
Dr Kromm
> Thanks, Kromm.
> Uh... Just out of curiosity, where does that name come from?
> Is it...a...a...you know... *ahem*... Illuminati thing?
No, no. Not the Illuminati. The OTHER ones.
|MAniC|
>
> In article <3715DC09...@excite.com>, |MAniC| <manicp...@excite.com>
> writes:
>
> >Well now, it very much depends on whether the cat is alive or dead. If
> >the cat were alive then you would have to add some type of speed
> >penalty for picking it up in the first place (fast-draw: cats,
> >alive?), cats tend not to like being picked up you see.
>
> nor dead, but a superposition of the two states. So what happens then?
>
Bad Kitty, bad, bad kitty...
MAniC
Kitarak
<andy.s...@minarsas.demon.co.uk> writes:
>I don't know. If I open the box, I could kill the cat. And I couldn't do
>that, now, could I?
So do you throw the box at them then?
John Rowat
>>Well now, it very much depends on whether the cat is alive or dead. If
>>the cat were alive then you would have to add some type of speed
>>penalty for picking it up in the first place (fast-draw: cats,
>>alive?), cats tend not to like being picked up you see.
> Ah. But as schrodinger (apparently) sugested the idea the cat is
> neither alive nor dead, but a superposition of the two states. So what
> happens then?
But Schrodinger's theorem only applies if the cat is in a box, and if
you've got a penalty for picking up a box, then it's either a damn big cat
in under there or a small cat and a damn big box.
Either way, it's just a bad scene.
Andy Staples
>In article <b0OW+LAOPlF3Ew8$@minarsas.demon.co.uk>, Andy Staples
><andy.s...@minarsas.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>>I don't know. If I open the box, I could kill the cat. And I couldn't do
>>that, now, could I?
>
>So do you throw the box at them then?
"This box contains a potentially angry small tabby tom. It could scratch
your face quite nastily. Now, I know what you're thinking, punk. Is it a
live cat or a dead cat? Well, in all the excitement of quantum thought
experiments, I just don't know myself. Do you feel lucky, punk?
"Go ahead. Make my day."
Sakura
Xiphias Gladius <i...@schultz.io.com> wrote:
>je...@schultz-2.io.com (Sakura) writes:
>
>>Um...range should be easily done on the Throwing table, no? It also
>>depends on the pet...you can get a lot more range out of a kitten then you
>>could a 22-lb monstrosity. Personally, I think poodles would be easier
>>(and more fun) to throw ...
>
>Toy or full-size?
Toys, or teacups, or miniatures, or whatever the little buggers are
called. I actually respect standard poodles to some degree...
Eric Smith
news:01be87a5$12388480$4e58...@GB-078.gsbme.unsw.edu.au...
> > another defense for a single attack...just another defense that round.
> Not
> > as useful if you're fighting one-on-one, but very nice if there are
> > multiple people attacking you.
>
> I have to admit, I don't find AOD very useful. Every round you
> AOD is one round where you have no chance of harming your
> enemies (unless they do something really stupid like crit-
> failing) and they still have _some_ chance of hurting you.
> Unless you have some good reason to stall for time, what's
> the point?
As the Basic Set points out, AoD is particularly useful on the turn after you've
taken a big hit (and are thus at a minus to your attack rolls). Thanks to the
hit your chances of hurting your opponent are very small, so you're better off
AoDing with the increased chance of not getting hit again.
It's also useful in any situation where you are being attacked at a range and
don't have a ranged weapon yourself (getting shot at, for instance). And, of
course, if you want to buy some time, say when you're being attacked by 2-3
thugs but you see your friends coming to your aid and actually want to live long
enough for your friends to actually help.
--
EricBSmith
@earthlink.net
Organize for anarchy!
Paul T.
Dr Kromm <kr...@schultz.io.com> wrote in message
news:7f6562$kjs$1...@hiram.io.com...
> Paul T. <mac...@olypen.com> wrote:
> > Thanks, Kromm.
> > Uh... Just out of curiosity, where does that name come from?
> > Is it...a...a...you know... *ahem*... Illuminati thing?
>
> No, no. Not the Illuminati. The OTHER ones.
Oh, I see...
>
> Kromm.
It's just a _f_n_o_r_d_ equivalent.
P.