NIGHT BELOW - Help !
Martin Ripa
I'm planning begin DMing Night Below - An Underdark Campaign soon.
Any tips or advices how to handle this adventure ?
Are there any realistic chances for PC's to survive ? (the Bad Boys
are powerful and INTELLIGENT) :-)
Thanks
Martin
Red Rat of Ovirvirlan
E. Filson
ar...@serverpha.czcom.cz (Martin Ripa) writes:
>I'm planning begin DMing Night Below - An Underdark Campaign soon.
>
>Any tips or advices how to handle this adventure ?
>Are there any realistic chances for PC's to survive ? (the Bad Boys
>are powerful and INTELLIGENT) :-)
Well, I must confess that I haven't been able to DM it but since I plan
to, I've tried to listen very carefully to what others have had to say
about it. Here's a brief summary:
1.) It really is a campaign. Like the Temple of Elemental Evil, it's hard
to get the PCs away from it once you've started. This can be good and
bad.
2.) There is a lot of treasure in this adventure! Some have speculated
that it is for the DMs who use the 1gp=1xp rule so that characters advance
enough to face the deadly challenges. I don't use that rule, so its
purpose will have to be filled some other way. On the other hand, you may
have to handle the glut it will cause. There are two methods:
a.) High inflation from the dramatic increase of coinage in
Haranshire.
b.) (My fav) Enforce encumbrance rules! Imagine trying to run
away from a horde of horrible humanoids with 110 lbs. of gold.
So long PC!
3.) This is a *thinking* adventure. PCs who do not use diplomacy (which
is why Sargent harps on it) and strategy (especially at the end) will die
horrible, unspeakable deaths.
Hope this helps,
dek
Gen Dorsey
First, read it in detail. There are a few errors (I don't have it anymore so I
can't tell what they are). I do know that there are a few AC errors (-3
should be 3, etc.). Although they are typos, some DMs may not catch them
until it is too late for the party (almost happened to my group).
Also, there are some things that don't make sense and should be changed to keep
things consistant with the world. I am speaking specifically of a part where
the inhabitants of one cavern are able to move at their full MV although it is
pitch black and they do not have infravision. If the party can't do it,
neither should the NPCs.
Basically, check for typos and understanding of events. My wife was confused
on some things and it took some time for her to get back on track (only a few
minutes, but it does eat up time).
Overall, it is a fun adventure although we never finished it.
General Dorsey
-Force is never more operative when it is implied and not brandished.
shaman
E. Filson (efi...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu) wrote:
: ar...@serverpha.czcom.cz (Martin Ripa) writes:
: Hope this helps,
: dek
Actually, I'm running it right now and it's been fun for the most part but
I cannot stress one thing enough.
IF your players are not used to campaigns, especially potentially long
ones do NOT run this game. It'll take a couple of years at least
depending on how often you play. We've been playing over a year now, a
little over once every two weeks, about 5-9 hours a session and they are
just now starting to complete the second book and they've finally learned
the value of making alliances.
The thing that has kept them alive is the fact that the current pary
consists of 9 PC's and 2 NPC's.
The treasure is placed to help boost the XP award and allow the characters
the power they need to continue on. I've added a couple of things into
the loop that keeps the treasure down, though I do give an xp award for it
but split amongst 11 people it still keeps it down somewhat.
I have an adventuring tax which is a base 15% of all wealth recovered
including magic recovered, the rulers also charge the party for assessing
the items for their worth. Then, the treasure goes to pay for needed
equipment, supplies, wages to hired soldiers (they have waystations in the
tunnels below guarded by mid-level NPCs) and other assorted necessities.
I charge for training for new spell levels, getting new spells from
various NPC mages, and proficiencies. The party also, further spent money
rebuilding the "Keep in the Woods" to use as their own base of operations
because of that they pay a land tax as well and at the end of the year
they pay an income tax on any remaining funds left over to support the
kingdom. This has kept the treasure (using encumbrance rules as well) way
down ... the party is about 10th level at the moment and has about 15 to
30 thousand gold apiece stored up, though most will be spent shortly on
various things.
They also paid sages to research the monsters they encountered to have
better ideas on how to fight them so over all its worked rather well. As
for the magic items, they have been traded at times for necessary training
or payment for services rendered as well as destroyed from various
castings of spells.
I'm a firm believer that just because you make a saving throw doesn't mean
your items do. Also, the disjunction spells later on should help remove
any excess magic.
IF you do not wish to use the GP to XP rule which I normally don't
increase the story awards for completing a certain section and that should
work as well.
Hope that helps...PS if they don't learn stealth and negotiation they will
die..<period>. Let me know how it goes...
Shaman.
shaman
Gen Dorsey (gend...@aol.com) wrote:
: First, read it in detail. There are a few errors (I don't have it anymore so I
: can't tell what they are). I do know that there are a few AC errors (-3
: should be 3, etc.). Although they are typos, some DMs may not catch them
: until it is too late for the party (almost happened to my group).
: Also, there are some things that don't make sense and should be changed to keep
: things consistant with the world. I am speaking specifically of a part where
: the inhabitants of one cavern are able to move at their full MV although it is
: pitch black and they do not have infravision. If the party can't do it,
: neither should the NPCs.
If its the cavern that I'm thinking about, that particular monster
uses sound and a form of sonar to get about. It's in the first book is it
not?
: Basically, check for typos and understanding of events. My wife was confused
: on some things and it took some time for her to get back on track (only a few
: minutes, but it does eat up time).
: Overall, it is a fun adventure although we never finished it.
Otherwise I firmly agree with everything, take the time to read it, read
it again, and above all else make notes...take notes...some of the battles
can be huge!!!
Shaman
Gen Dorsey
> If its the cavern that I'm thinking about, that particular monster
>uses sound and a form of sonar to get about. It's in the first book is it
>not?
>
>
Unless my wife made a mistake, it was a halfling (hairfoot I think). It was
clear to those using infravision that he did not possess any. Again, she may
have misunderstood the encounter, but everyone we met in the cavern was
unhindered by the darkness.
Alan Randall
In article <343c00d9...@news.felk.cvut.cz>, Martin Ripa
<ar...@serverpha.czcom.cz> writes
>I'm planning begin DMing Night Below - An Underdark Campaign soon.
>Any tips or advices how to handle this adventure ?
>Are there any realistic chances for PC's to survive ? (the Bad Boys
>are powerful and INTELLIGENT) :-)
>Martin
>Red Rat of Ovirvirlan
I've been running it for about a year now and they are about to make
their third assalt on the final city.
I have the following characters in the party.
13th Human Paladin
14th Drow Mage
3 14th Dwarven Fighters
14 Elven Mage
13th Drow Ranger
16th halfelf Bard
14th OrgeMagi Mage
14th Deep Gnome spec.priest of Grumbar (Forgotten Realms)
14th Human spec.priest of Azuth (Forgotten Realms)
These characters all started off at first level. There was a pixie
thief in the party but he got assimilated by the borg collective on a
quick side adventure and hasn't been seen since.
Because of the amount of characters I increased the amount of monsters
or their strength by about 50 percent on average.
They have managed so far with their worst battle being the Shadow Dragon
which I made a Great Wyrm. Nine of them died in that battle.
You do need the money as it is about 60 percent of the experience the
players gain. I also had to throw in some side adventures to get the
levels up.
Another thing that I had to change was the magical weapons as none of
the three dwarves uses them. Two use 2-handed battle axes and the other
used a 2-handed long spear.
I also don't think it is essisential for the PC's to make alliances as
mine didn't. They made 'friends' with the Rockseers and the Deep Gnomes
but killed the Illithids, Derro and Tanari. That's what I get for
having a Paladin in the party.
Also, make sure that the bad guys retreat if needed as I got my players
a good few times with counter attacks after a two minute retreat, as
they didn't expect it. ;-}
Any specific questions that you have I would be glad to answer.
See ya.
Alan Randall
--
Alan D Kohler
In article <51ZXSAAy...@maidstone.gov.uk>, al...@maidstone.gov.uk says...
>
>In article <343c00d9...@news.felk.cvut.cz>, Martin Ripa
><ar...@serverpha.czcom.cz> writes
>>I'm planning begin DMing Night Below - An Underdark Campaign soon.
>>Any tips or advices how to handle this adventure ?
>>Are there any realistic chances for PC's to survive ? (the Bad Boys
>>are powerful and INTELLIGENT) :-)
I ran the campaign; it is very difficult to run any kind of side adventures and
without side adventures, it's hard to get them to the level you need them to be
by the last book if you don't give out XP for treasure (I most resoundingly
don't.) I basically split the adventure in two. I ran the first half lat year,
and combined the second half (from the Derro warrens on) with the rod of seven
parts adventure.
The second book has some problems. There are MANY hack-n-slash encounters that
one has to go through to get to your goal; I found it hard to keep PCs
attention without sprucing book 2 up a little. The one section of the book that
I couldn't wait to throw at my PCs, they short circuited handily--the Kuo-Toa
city.
The third book was more flexible as to the PC's course of action. There are
many side adventures built in, but getting PCs to take time off from heading
straight towards the city is difficult.
I must admit, once PCs reach the final encounter, it proved to be quite
challenging (I thought their goose was cooked! But somehow, they pulled
through.)
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Ernest Mueller
Martin Ripa wrote:
>
> I'm planning begin DMing Night Below - An Underdark Campaign soon.
>
> Any tips or advices how to handle this adventure ?
> Are there any realistic chances for PC's to survive ? (the Bad Boys
> are powerful and INTELLIGENT) :-)
I've been running the Night Below for a year and a half and am just finishing
off the first book. The players will all be mostly 5th level by that time.
I advise adding in lots of other subplots that will give the PCs something to
do. This gives them needed experience and can be used to keep them interested
in the plot - as written, it's not very compelling for any but the most
danger-seeking adventurers - my PCs have been (rightfully) reluctant to pursue
the more heavy-duty bad guys over a couple of missing persons.
I've been planning for Book Two, and it seems like there could be some more
interesting things added in than what is there - massive cave combats with
little point to them.
Because the eventual bad guys are so powerful, you can add in a quest for an
artifact that will help in books 2/3. Also having the friendly underground
races do more than sit around is good - have them request PC aid for things
(they can pay richly of course). I *don't* mean have them help more directly -
though some of them are strangely powerful. I intend to change much of Book 2
around.
I don't want to discuss many spoilers in the clear here, but I have found these
tactics to be useful so far (even the opponents in the first book, if played
correctly, are horribly dangerous).
1. Encourage the players (indirectly) to not be afraid of fleeing or devising
decent tactics.
2. Impress upon them the importance of gathering information and preparation.
3. Be flexible and guide the plot as time passes. I got a lot of great ideas
for valuable subplots as the campaign progressed from the characters and events
going on.
4. Give them little tastes of what's to come so they don't become too
overconfident and change right into <insert lair here>. All the major combats
so far have proven to be intense, highly challenging exercises for a normally
powered low-level party. It's easy for something to go wrong. I've
incorporated a "Luck points" rules addition into my campaign that has saved some
bacon already.
5. Don't be afraid to give XP not "by-the-book." I don't give GP=XP awards and
if I just tallied up monster XP the party would still be about 2nd level. Give
story awards for completing parts of the adventure that keep them going at a
decent rate.
So far I've only had one party death, but they are all scared out of their minds
(you also have to keep PC motivations up) - the whole party has been
occasionally tempted to leave town and never come back. The bad guys are really
intense, and if the PC's don't realize that and prepare adequately, there is the
possibility of a bloodbath. Try to capture or maim instead of kill when
feasible.
Ernest
--
Ernest C. Mueller ern...@towery.com
Webmaster Phone: (901) 251-7000
Towery Publishing http://www.towery.com
Asberdies
I'm also planning to run Night Below soon and was wondering if anyone has set
it in Greyhawk. I was going to set it down in the Yeomanry (modify it a
little) and run it in connection with GDQ when the time got right.
1) Is setting it in the Yeomanry in Greyhawk dumb?
2) The maps make it seem that GDQ and NightBelow can be fit together (or so
I'm told) has anyone run it this way. Specifcally NB and D1-3.
Thanx
Ernest Mueller
I set it in Greyhawk as well. I placed it in the crook of the Javan river right
east of the Yeomanry, on the southern border of Keoland right north of the
marshes separating it from the Sea Princes. This was before I heard about the
GDQ/Night Below connection, or I might have set it a little further west -
though I was thinking about a U1-3 connection with Saltmarsh being due east on
the coast from my Haranshire.
It's worked out great. It's in the sticks so the players haven't had all the
resources of a big city to fall back on. Even Keolish soldiers seldom get down
there, what with the forests and swamps and all - a real sleepy little
backwater. The perfect place for all this to happen.
Of course, I'm doing it with more of a Lovecraft theme to it, hence the U1-3
(deep ones) connection, so a sleepier, more degenerate back-woods town was what
I was looking for. And the caves in GDQ1-7 just neeed a little more stretching
to make them span the length of Keoland and meet the SUnless Sea over under the
marshes (a logical place for it, anyway).
Good luck, I've found it to be a great campaign especially when given a Greyhawk
flavor.