Israeli Army: Dungeons and Dragons Players Are Losers
Zot !
could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html
Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons
IDF says players are detached from reality and automatically given a
low security clearance
By Hanan Greenberg
Does the Israel Defense Forces believe incoming recruits and soldiers
who play Dungeons and Dragons are unfit for elite units? Ynetnews has
learned that 18-year-olds who tell recruiters they play the popular
fantasy game are automatically given low security clearance.
"They're detached from reality and suscepitble to influence," the army
says.
Fans of the popular role-playing game had spoken of rumors of this
strange policy by the IDF, but now the army has confirmed that it has
a negative image of teens who play the game and labels them as
problematic in regard to their draft status.
So if you like fantasy games, go see the military psychologist.
Dungeons and Dragons (also known as "D and D") has been a popular
role-playing game for decades and is based on a fantasy world.
One player assumes the role of "Dungeon Master" which entails
directing the game and controlling the labyrinth, while the others
select from a large selection of characters that includes warriors,
magicians, dwarfs and thieves.
The game focuses on the results of decisions made by the players as
determined by the roll of the dice.
In a more "active" version of the game, players leave the table and go
out, dressed as the characters they assume for the game, along with
the requisite equipment of swords (not real) to play outside, usually
in the forest or woods.
'Simply detached from reality'
Thousands of youth and teens in Israel play "D and D", fighting
dragons and demons using their rich imaginations. The game has also
increased in popularity due to the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy.
However the IDF does not approve of this unusual hobby and prevents "D
and D" players from being considered for sensitive army positions by
labeling them with low security clearance.
"We have discovered that some of them are simply detached from
reality," a security source told Ynetnews.
Game enthusiasts are aware of their problematic image in the army and
prefer to maintain their anonymity. Many of them are from the former
Soviet Union where the game is very popular.
In Israel there are thousands of players, between the ages 16 to 35,
and include lawyers, high-tech workers and businessmen. Matan, 22, and
Igor, a 21-year-old IDF soldier, organize activities for groups of
players. Soon hundreds of fans are expected to meet in a forest in the
southern part of Israel for a two-day game of pure fantasy.
"It's not a game of winners and losers," Matan says,
"but rather entry into another world with stories and plot changes."
He is aware of the game's problematic reputation, especially in the
IDF. The army is not indifferent to the unique hobby and is trying to
locate soldiers who in their free time dress up as witches and play in
forests.
'The game indicates a weak personality'
A security official tells Ynetnews there are specific criteria for
deciding the level of a soldier's security clearance.
"One of the tests we do, either by asking soldiers directly or through
information provided us, is to ask whether they take part in the
game," he says. "If a soldier answers in the affirmative, he is sent
to a professional for an evaluation, usually a psychologist."
More than half of the soldiers sent for evaluation receive low
security clearances, thus preventing them from serving in sensitive
IDF positions, he says.
Igor says exposing soldiers who play the game could result in the
soldiers being sent to a military psychologist or even being kicked
out of the army.
"Exposing them could also harm their chances at being accepted to
other military courses," he says.
Matan says he has personally met soldiers whose military career was
harmed due to their connection to the game. Most soldiers who play
Dungeons and Dragons simply do not admit to it while they are in teh
army, he says.
Why does the IDF believe the game is so dangerous?
"These people have a tendency to be influenced by external factors
which could cloud their judgment, a military official says. "They may
be detached from reality or have a weak personality – elements
which lower a person's security clearance, allowing them to serve in
the army, but not in sensitive positions."
Unsurprisingly, Igor, Matan and thier friends do not approve of this
IDF policy. They say the game is only a colorful, non-violent hobby.
"Many people who play served in the most classified units," David
says. "They are intelligent and any attempt to label them as 'weird'
is incorrect and unfair."
But in the struggle between the Lord of the Rings and the Minister of
Defense, the latter wins, or at least this is the case in the real
world of the IDF.
Rivercat
"Zot !" <zotti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5e3c8206.05030...@posting.google.com...
> Interesting. Does anyone knows what is policy of the others side -
> could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
>
>
> http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html
>
> Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons
>
>
> IDF says players are detached from reality and automatically given a
> low security clearance
>
I think that the IDF's policy tells us more about the IDF than it does about
D&D players.
One of the strengths of D&D is that it teaches players to look at a wide
range of options when solving the problems that arise in the game. That
particularly applies when running a character of any complexity.
I guess that would teach people to think for themselves, and not blindly
accept whatever their superiors tell them.
That could be what the IDF is really concerned about.
Peter Knutsen
>>could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
>>
>>http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html
>>
>>Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons
>>
>>IDF says players are detached from reality and automatically given a
>>low security clearance
>
> snip
>
> I think that the IDF's policy tells us more about the IDF than it does about
> D&D players.
>
> One of the strengths of D&D is that it teaches players to look at a wide
> range of options when solving the problems that arise in the game. That
> particularly applies when running a character of any complexity.
It is true that roleplaying gaming attracts the creative
fraction of the population.
But on the other hand, D&D in particular is quite detached
from reality, with experienced heroes tending to have a ton
of hit points, so that they are guaranteed to not be taken
down by any single hit. There is also a tendency among many
GMs (although perhaps less so with D&D3 than with other
systems) to simply not let PCs die, no matter what.
A system with more realistic combat rules, and ran by a GM
with a "sometimes shit shappen" attitude, would much better
serve the needs of a military force, by encouraging caution
and stealth, rather than just mindless Conan-style bravery.
On the third hand, the IDF is kinda a dangerous organization
to be in (more so than just living in Israel, which is
plenty dangerous in itself), so it is very possible that
some people, who wanted to escape the draft (there's 3 years
compulsory military service in Israel, for both men and
women) have exagarrated the degree of reality disconnect
that usually occurs among D&D players.
In fact, that's often how rumours get started. Somebody
wants to be percieved as very weird (for whatever reason),
and so he will claim (possibly 100% truthfully) to be
involved in a wide range of unusual activities, some
harmless such as roleplaying gaming and others more or less
edgy. People who were exposed to that one weird individual
will, from then on, associate the playing of D&D with all
those (more or less) edgy activities (ritual sacrifice of
puppies, drug use, group sex, or whatever).
> I guess that would teach people to think for themselves, and not blindly
> accept whatever their superiors tell them.
>
> That could be what the IDF is really concerned about.
There's a limit to how much regular armed forces soldiers
*should* think for themselvew. And Israel *is* a threatened
nation. It needs to defend itself.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Rivercat
"Peter Knutsen" <pe...@sagatafl.invalid> wrote in message
news:394pp6F...@individual.net...
You've made some interesting observations.
Aside from a very small percentage of players who are not so much detached
from reality as entirely divorced - easily recognised because they dress up
as their characters and parade around the country side waving objects at
passersby - I would argue that most D&D players are pretty much sane, and
acutely aware of the real vulnerability of their characters in properly run
adventures. I would also be prepared to argue that there is a world of
difference between deciding the fate of a character by rolling dice on a
table, and lying in a muddy or dusty fold in the ground, hoping to get even
lower, while being shot at by some bastard with an RPG or a AK47.
As for your argument that some draftees have tried to dodge the draft by
claiming to be D&D victims, it is a bit more original than fleeing to
Canada. As for the 'edgy activities (ritual sacrifice of puppies, drug
use, group sex, or whatever)' I have to admit that none of these events have
ever come up at a game I have attended - and to be fair, the guys in my
gaming group have never caused me to want to engage in group sex with them.
Now, if there were more female players...
And finally, on the limits of how much regular soldiers 'should' think for
themselves - I would point out that soldiers are most dangerous when they
stop thinking for themselves - obeying orders is not a defence for war
crimes. The last bunch to try that defence wound up being tried at
Nuremburg.
T. Koivula
Rivercat <u...@ftc.com> typed:
> And finally, on the limits of how much regular soldiers 'should'
> think for themselves - I would point out that soldiers are most
> dangerous when they stop thinking for themselves - obeying orders is
> not a defence for war crimes. The last bunch to try that defence
> wound up being tried at Nuremburg.
You're talking about what the soldiers should do since they're human beings.
The others are talking about what an army wants its soldiers to do and (not)
think...
--
T. Koivula
Rivercat
"T. Koivula" <pli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d0k1b0$lss$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
Yes, that's right.
Michael Grosberg
Zot ! wrote:
> Interesting. Does anyone knows what is policy of the others side -
> could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
>
>
> http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html
>
> Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons
>
Actually, the article is a bit misleading. It's Rd&d, not normal d&d,
that the IDF has a problem with.
Clangador
And what's the diff?
gig...@netscape.net
RD&D, AD&D, D&D which one do -you- consider "normal"?
bd4u
Lorenz Lang
They are all pretty unnormal, absurd roll-playing games (not normal roleplaying games
like, say, monopoly).
gig...@netscape.net
I don't like the way people become obsessed with the game.
As if life doesn't matter to them, just the game.
I used to play the game, and then I grew up. IDF
rightfully lowers their security clasification
IMHO in order to match their level of maturity.
That of a 10 year old..
bd4u
Lorenz Lang
>
> Lorenz Lang wrote:
>> On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 07:48:50 -0800, gigo44 wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Michael Grosberg wrote:
>> >> Zot ! wrote:
>> >> > Interesting. Does anyone knows what is policy of the others side
> -
>> >> > could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html
>> >> >
>> >> > Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Actually, the article is a bit misleading. It's Rd&d, not normal
> d&d,
>> >> that the IDF has a problem with.
>> >
>> > RD&D, AD&D, D&D which one do -you- consider "normal"?
>> >
>> > bd4u
>>
>> They are all pretty unnormal, absurd roll-playing games (not normal
> roleplaying games
>> like, say, monopoly).
>
> I don't like the way people become obsessed with the game.
> As if life doesn't matter to them, just the game.
Life, what's that?
My wizard enspelled this post with Explosive Runes.
*Now*, you're blasted.
> I used to play the game, and then I grew up. IDF
> rightfully lowers their security clasification
> IMHO in order to match their level of maturity.
Yes, it's their club, they can put the bar as high as they want.
> That of a 10 year old..
Must go back to my homework, mommy's calling.
LL
Malachias Invictus
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110298599....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> I don't like the way people become obsessed with the game.
I don't like the way people get obsessed with sports. Or partying. Or
getting laid.
> As if life doesn't matter to them, just the game.
Some people have that problem, no matter what their obsession is. For
example, look at drug addicts who become "clean & sober" religious fanatics.
> I used to play the game, and then I grew up.
Same here. Of course, I still play.
> IDF rightfully lowers their security clasification
That may or may not be true.
> IMHO in order to match their level of maturity.
> That of a 10 year old..
Let me guess: no one wants to play with you.
--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.
from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Michael Grosberg
Rd&d is the version where you play outside, in costume, using foam
covered weapons.
So these are people who are into strategy and decision making, like to
spend time outside, and enjoy physical efort that includes running
around in rugged terrain while lugging weapons.
Why on earth would the IDF want such people? They are clearly unfit for
the military lifestyle.
Eudaemonic Plague
: I don't like the way people become obsessed with the game.
: As if life doesn't matter to them, just the game.
: I used to play the game, and then I grew up. IDF
: rightfully lowers their security clasification
: IMHO in order to match their level of maturity.
: That of a 10 year old..
Child, get off your high horse, you haven't matured. What's it to
you, if people become obsessed with the game? Are you claiming to not
have any obsessions? You used to play the game, but it was too
difficult for your imagination-impoverished little brain, eh? Ya
revolting little shit, you're clearly unaware that the game originally
was intended for adults. Now, stop chewing on that crayon, and clean
up your room!
just...@gmail.com
Zot ! wrote:
> In a more "active" version of the game, players leave the table and
go
> out, dressed as the characters they assume for the game, along with
> the requisite equipment of swords (not real) to play outside, usually
> in the forest or woods.
>
What the hell this has to do with D&D I don't know. Sounds more like a
sport *spit*.
- Justisaur.
Eudaemonic Plague
news:pan.2005.03.08....@netlife.invalid...
: On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 07:48:50 -0800, gigo44 wrote:
[snip]
: > RD&D, AD&D, D&D which one do -you- consider "normal"?
: >
: > bd4u
:
: They are all pretty unnormal, absurd roll-playing games (not normal
roleplaying games
: like, say, monopoly).
Lorenz, you really need help...did you realize that "role-playing" and
"roll-playing" are not equivilent? Monopoly is a _boardgame_, not a
role-playing game.
R?ain - ריעין
high school, who face the high probability of being killed before they
turn 21.
And most D&D players I know are 18 or older.
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110298599....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
:
:
Ubiquitous
zotti...@hotmail.com wrote:
>Interesting. Does anyone knows what is policy of the others side -
>could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
Troll O Meter
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
___________________________________________________
| | | | | | | | | | |
---------------------------------------------------
^
|
Don't quit your dayjob.
Werebat
David Alex Lamb
Lorenz knows all that. rec.games.frp.dnd had a recent flamewar about "real
roleplaying" to which he is alluding.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
gig...@netscape.net
mental midgets, who play Roleplaying games.
Listen to them jabber and talk. It sounds
like a Star Trek convention all the sudden.
Oh well..
gig...@netscape.net
R?ain - øéòéï wrote:
> You are forgetting that we are talking about 18-year-olds right out
of
> high school, who face the high probability of being killed before
they
> turn 21.
Precisely the point of arguement with the IDF. I got nothing
against D&D, it can be alot of fun escaping reality. That's
what daydreams are made of. But unfortunately bullets and
warfare are for *real*, and I wouldn't want a *kid* handling
classified information. I don't think the IDF does either.
>
> And most D&D players I know are 18 or older.
>
Yeah i know, some are even 40 and over. Most are single,
and many more have NO serious obligations.
Hadsil
Lorenz Lang wrote:
> >>
> >> Actually, the article is a bit misleading. It's Rd&d, not normal
d&d,
> >> that the IDF has a problem with.
> >
> > RD&D, AD&D, D&D which one do -you- consider "normal"?
> >
> > bd4u
>
> They are all pretty unnormal, absurd roll-playing games (not normal
roleplaying games
> like, say, monopoly).
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Gerald Katz
Hadsil
You missed the joke.
Gerald Katz
Jeff Goslin
news:1110326404.1...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > : They are all pretty unnormal, absurd roll-playing games (not normal
> > roleplaying games
> > : like, say, monopoly).
> >
> > Lorenz, you really need help...did you realize that "role-playing"
> and
> > "roll-playing" are not equivilent? Monopoly is a _boardgame_, not a
> > role-playing game.
>
> You missed the joke.
Yeah, that's kind of a rgfd insider thing. Being the cause of it, I
appreciated the joke! ;)
--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
Werebat
gig...@netscape.net wrote:
> Hehh, I figured I would incur the wrath of a bunch of
> mental midgets, who play Roleplaying games.
Oh, but that's where you're wrong! Why, Michael Scott Brown alone knows
more about anything than just about anyone! Just ask him!
> Listen to them jabber and talk. It sounds
> like a Star Trek convention all the sudden.
"Listen to them jabber and talk"?
I think the "and talk" there is a bit superfluous, at best. At worst it
overshadows the derogatory thrust of your missive.
> Oh well..
And what, precisely, is your great contribution to society, Mr. Dicky Bird?
- Ron ^*^
Werebat
gig...@netscape.net wrote:
> R?ain - ריעין wrote:
>
>>You are forgetting that we are talking about 18-year-olds right out
>
> of
>
>>high school, who face the high probability of being killed before
>
> they
>
>>turn 21.
>
>
> Precisely the point of arguement with the IDF. I got nothing
> against D&D, it can be alot of fun escaping reality. That's
> what daydreams are made of. But unfortunately bullets and
> warfare are for *real*, and I wouldn't want a *kid* handling
> classified information. I don't think the IDF does either.
So... Anyone interested in anything involving a temporary escape from
reality should be restricted from handling classified information? You
mean people who read narrative fiction, and people who dress up for
Halloween, and people who go to the theatre? That's an... interesting
viewpoint.
I'm not at all surprised by any of this, really -- most militaries are
very much SJ organizations, and as such have little ability or desire to
incorporate more flexible and intuitive types. Nothing new there.
Anyway, the US basically owns Israel, and when we tell them to jump
they'd damn well better ask "how high?". If we felt like changing their
internal policies all we'd have to do is make the demand. Personally I
don't really care. let them forbid Palestinian-blooded folks from
entering their military too, or whatever it is they do in that backward,
desert, camel-kissing region of the world. Give it a few more decades
and the oil will run out and then they can all blow each other to
Kingdom Come for all the US is going to care -- we'll cluck our tongues
"tsk tsk tsk" and shake our heads like we do every time some ignorant
dirt-eating African tribe butchers some other ignorant dirt-eating
African tribe, and then go back to watching the Superbowl. Way it is.
- Ron ^*^
Ophidian
> You are forgetting that we are talking about 18-year-olds right out of
> high school, who face the high probability of being killed before they
> turn 21.
>
> And most D&D players I know are 18 or older.
Then I assume most _people_ you know are 18 or older.
Uri Bruck
Eh, WHAT?
my city:
http://www.haifa.muni.il
and some photos from its tourist board:
http://www.tour-haifa.co.il/heb/gallery/index.phtml
desert? camels? where?
I guess everything else you KNOW is just as accurate.
Ophidian
>
> Precisely the point of arguement with the IDF. I got nothing
> against D&D, it can be alot of fun escaping reality. That's
> what daydreams are made of. But unfortunately bullets and
> warfare are for *real*, and I wouldn't want a *kid* handling
> classified information. I don't think the IDF does either.
Then raise the recruitment age to 25.
Anything below that IS a kid to us over 30.
(Yeah, I know I felt otherwise when I was under 30...)
>>And most D&D players I know are 18 or older.
>
> Yeah i know, some are even 40 and over.
Gasp!
> Most are single,
Most _people_ are single these days.
> and many more have NO serious obligations.
And many do.
That's a wash.
But watch this:
"... most golfers I know are 18 or older."
gig...@netscape.net
Werebat wrote:
> gig...@netscape.net wrote:
>
> > R?ain - øéòéï wrote:
> >
> >>You are forgetting that we are talking about 18-year-olds right out
> >
> > of
> >
> >>high school, who face the high probability of being killed before
> >
> > they
> >
> >>turn 21.
> >
> >
> > Precisely the point of arguement with the IDF. I got nothing
> > against D&D, it can be alot of fun escaping reality. That's
> > what daydreams are made of. But unfortunately bullets and
> > warfare are for *real*, and I wouldn't want a *kid* handling
> > classified information. I don't think the IDF does either.
>
> So... Anyone interested in anything involving a temporary escape
from
> reality should be restricted from handling classified information?
You
> mean people who read narrative fiction, and people who dress up for
> Halloween, and people who go to the theatre? That's an...
interesting
> viewpoint.
You are stretching the point and proping up strawmen. Nothing
new really for somebody with a wild imagination.
>
> I'm not at all surprised by any of this, really -- most militaries
are
> very much SJ organizations, and as such have little ability or desire
to
> incorporate more flexible and intuitive types. Nothing new there.
They can't afford to, live at at risk believe it or not.
>
> Anyway, the US basically owns Israel, and when we tell them to jump
> they'd damn well better ask "how high?". If we felt like changing
their
> internal policies all we'd have to do is make the demand. Personally
I
> don't really care. let them forbid Palestinian-blooded folks from
> entering their military too, or whatever it is they do in that
backward,
> desert, camel-kissing region of the world. Give it a few more
decades
> and the oil will run out and then they can all blow each other to
> Kingdom Come for all the US is going to care -- we'll cluck our
tongues
> "tsk tsk tsk" and shake our heads like we do every time some ignorant
> dirt-eating African tribe butchers some other ignorant dirt-eating
> African tribe, and then go back to watching the Superbowl. Way it
is.
>
> - Ron ^*^
More strawmen. In the meantime I wouldn't want any "dope puffing
socialist" determining who is gonna live or die in the end, any
more than I would want a D&D player thinking he was King Arthur
commanding the troops in Battle, on Bunker Hill no less.
Leave the toys at home.. ..you want R&R, have a beer, and hit
the showers. Read a book or somethin.. ..they might call it
"wargames", but war ain't no game.
bd4u
Dirk Collins
> Interesting. Does anyone knows what is policy of the others side -
> could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
Islam at least frowns on D&D, at least for practicing muslims. I
would say no, offhand.
> http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html
>
> Israeli Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons
>
> IDF says players are detached from reality and automatically given a
> low security clearance
>
> By Hanan Greenberg...
>
> Does the Israel Defense Forces believe incoming recruits and soldiers
> who play Dungeons and Dragons are unfit for elite units? Ynetnews has
> learned that 18-year-olds who tell recruiters they play the popular
> fantasy game are automatically given low security clearance.
>
> "They're detached from reality and susceptible to influence," the army
> says.
Most D&D players are highly resistant to common brainwashing
techniques, and other obsolete peer pressure techniques [insert
your favorite political organization, or religious fanatical
organization, cult, or agenda here] in favor of objectively
examining all the facets of any given dispute or simulation to
better understand (...and therefore master..) the dispute or
simulation.
The Israeli army simply doesn't like D&D players becuase they are
too independent and unpredictable to suit the all too often
morally questionable or highly demanding mission requirements of
the IDF, that's all.
You can also check out an old movie about an Israeli soldier. It's
called "The Sword of Gideon.", and will bring to light a family
(and soldier) that is not detached from the reality of what life
is like and the requirements for those folks in the minority that
live in the middle east.
As for D&D players being detached from reality, witch hunts like
these are what keeps the tards in the IDF, you know, the stupid
folk that insist on committing atrocities under Miers old
"Eye-for-an-eye" policy, A policy that keeps fanning the flames of
hatred against Israel. Fortunately, there are more moderate folks
also in charge there, to balance things a bit, unfortunately, it
seems not to be the case for the IDF.
The following quote is from "Monty Python & The Holy Grail" and is
applicable...
CROWD: A witch! A witch! A witch! We've got a witch! A witch!
VILLAGER #1: We have found a witch, might we burn her?
CROWD: Burn her! Burn!
BEDEVERE: How do you know she is a witch?
VILLAGER #2: She looks like one.
BEDEVERE: Bring her forward.
WITCH: I'm not a witch. I'm not a witch.
BEDEVERE: But you are dressed as one.
WITCH: They dressed me up like this.
CROWD: No, we didn't -- no.
WITCH: And this isn't my nose, it's a false one.
BEDEVERE: Well?
VILLAGER #1: Well, we did do the nose.
BEDEVERE: The nose?
VILLAGER #1: And the hat -- but she is a witch!
CROWD: Burn her! Witch! Witch! Burn her!
BEDEVERE: Did you dress her up like this?
CROWD: No, no... no ... yes. Yes, yes, a bit, a bit.
VILLAGER #1: She has got a wart.
BEDEVERE: What makes you think she is a witch?
VILLAGER #3: Well, she turned me into a newt.
BEDEVERE: A newt?
VILLAGER #3: I got better.
VILLAGER #2: Burn her anyway!
CROWD: Burn! Burn her!
BEDEVERE: Quiet, quiet. Quiet! There are ways of telling whether
she is a witch.
CROWD: Are there? What are they?
BEDEVERE: Tell me, what do you do with witches?
VILLAGER #2: Burn!
CROWD: Burn, burn them up!
BEDEVERE: And what do you burn apart from witches?
VILLAGER #1: More witches!
VILLAGER #2: Wood!
BEDEVERE: So, why do witches burn?
[pause]
VILLAGER #3: B--... 'cause they're made of wood...?
BEDEVERE: Good!
CROWD: Oh yeah, yeah...
BEDEVERE: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEVERE: Aah, but can you not also build bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #2: Oh, yeah.
BEDEVERE: Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1: No, no.
VILLAGER #2: It floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond!
CROWD: The pond!
BEDEVERE: What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1: Bread!
VILLAGER #2: Apples!
VILLAGER #3: Very small rocks!
VILLAGER #1: Cider!
VILLAGER #2: Great gravy!
VILLAGER #1: Cherries!
VILLAGER #2: Mud!
VILLAGER #3: Churches -- churches!
VILLAGER #2: Lead -- lead!
ARTHUR: A duck.
CROWD: Oooh.
BEDEVERE: Exactly! So, logically...,
VILLAGER #1: If... she.. weighs the same as a duck, she's made of
wood.
BEDEVERE: And therefore--?
VILLAGER #1: A witch!
CROWD: A witch!
BEDEVERE: We shall use my largest scales!
[yelling]
BEDEVERE: Right, remove the supports!
[whop]
[creak]
CROWD: A witch! A witch!
WITCH: It's a fair cop.
CROWD: Burn her! Burn!
[yelling]
BEDEVERE: Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?
ARTHUR: I am Arthur, King of the Britons.
BEDEVERE: My liege!
ARTHUR: Good Sir knight, will you come with me to Camelot,
and join us at the Round Table?
BEDEVERE: My liege! I would be honored.
ARTHUR: What is your name?
BEDEVERE: Bedevere, my leige.
ARTHUR: Then I dub you Sir Bedevere, Knight of the Round Table.
[Narrative Interlude]
NARRATOR: The wise Sir Bedevere was the first to join King
Arthur's knights, but other illustrious names were soon to follow:
Sir Launcelot the Brave; Sir Galahad the Pure; and Sir Robin the
Not-quite-so-brave-as-Sir-Launcelot who had nearly fought the
Dragon of Agnor, who had nearly stood up to the vicious Chicken of
Bristol and who had personally wet himself at the Battle of Badon
Hill; and the aptly named Sir Not-appearing-in-this-film. Together
they formed a band whose names and deeds were to be retold
throughout the centuries, the Knights of the Round Table.
Re,
Dirk
Dirk Collins
> "Zot !" <zotti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5e3c8206.05030...@posting.google.com...
>
>>Interesting. Does anyone knows what is policy of the others side -
>>could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
>>
>>
>>http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html
>>
>>Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons
>>
>>
>>IDF says players are detached from reality and automatically given a
>>low security clearance
>>
>
> snip
>
> I think that the IDF's policy tells us more about the IDF than it does about
> D&D players.
>
> One of the strengths of D&D is that it teaches players to look at a wide
> range of options when solving the problems that arise in the game. That
> particularly applies when running a character of any complexity.
>
> I guess that would teach people to think for themselves, and not blindly
> accept whatever their superiors tell them.
>
> That could be what the IDF is really concerned about.
Agreed.
Ophidian
Lorenz just got all the help he needed!
Lorenz IS Ron!
Dirk Collins
> There's a limit to how much regular armed forces soldiers *should* think
> for themselves.
Dude. The Iranians, The Libyans, the Syrians, uhhh... Hitler,
Ghenghis Khan, Mao Tze-Tung, Kim Jong-Il, and King Fahd, to name a
few... agree.
Clangador
RD&D was.
Dirk Collins
> Michael Grosberg wrote:
>
>>Zot ! wrote:
>>
>>>Interesting. Does anyone knows what is policy of the others side -
>>>could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html
>>>
>>>Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons
>>>
>>
>>Actually, the article is a bit misleading. It's Rd&d, not normal d&d,
>>that the IDF has a problem with.
>
>
> And what's the diff?
I hope you have enjoyed crossposting to a good chunk of the
Internet, for the conclusion of this thread, I have omitted the
other newsgroups this troll message was intended for.
RD&D is where the folks dress up in costume and go out on Mt.
Sinai and roleplay in person. We here in the U.S. have the SCA and
LARPS for that. In the middle east, they take their religion
seriously, and find such activities slightly profane.
Re,
Dirk
Dirk Collins
It is, it's called Trolling. Got a rise out of a few
troll-o-meters this did...
NYC XYZ
Werebat wrote:
>
>
>
> <SNIP>
>
> Anyway, the US basically owns Israel, and when we tell them to jump
> they'd damn well better ask "how high?". If we felt like changing
their
> internal policies all we'd have to do is make the demand. Personally
I
> don't really care. let them forbid Palestinian-blooded folks from
> entering their military too, or whatever it is they do in that
backward,
> desert, camel-kissing region of the world. Give it a few more
decades
> and the oil will run out and then they can all blow each other to
> Kingdom Come for all the US is going to care -- we'll cluck our
tongues
> "tsk tsk tsk" and shake our heads like we do every time some ignorant
> dirt-eating African tribe butchers some other ignorant dirt-eating
> African tribe, and then go back to watching the Superbowl. Way it
is.
>
> - Ron ^*^
LOL -- I agree...except that that's precisely GWB's attitude at first,
and now look where we are....
Hate to say it, but all these cavemen make themselves our problem....
And I don't think America owns Israel so much as Israel owns the US.
Didn't Sharon himself boast so of AIPAC?
Susan Cohen
"Werebat" <ranpo...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:bYtXd.56194$7z6.24149@lakeread04...
>
> Anyway, the US basically owns Israel, and when we tell them to jump they'd
> damn well better ask "how high?".
Oh, please.
If we felt like changing their
> internal policies all we'd have to do is make the demand.
You really need to get some facts, here.
We give a whopping 2% to their national budget.
If we "cut off aid" to Israel, we'd lose valuable clients for our military
wares (yes, most of the "aid" we give them is in the form of "vouchers" for
American goods), to say nothing of invaluable intelligence - even if we
disregard it.
Susan
Susan Cohen
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110339679.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> I wouldn't want any "dope puffing
socialist" determining who is gonna live or die in the end, any
more than I would want a D&D player thinking he was King Arthur
commanding the troops in Battle, on Bunker Hill no less.
None of us gamers is like that, thank you.
Susan
Susan Cohen
"NYC XYZ" <jack_fo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110343207.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> LOL -- I agree...except that that's precisely GWB's attitude at first,
> and now look where we are....
>
> Hate to say it, but all these cavemen make themselves our problem....
>
> And I don't think America owns Israel so much as Israel owns the US.
Oh, good grief - one is even more ignorant than the other.
> Didn't Sharon himself boast so of AIPAC?
Stop reading PLO propaganda.
Susan
>
gig...@netscape.net
Susan Cohen wrote:
> <gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:1110339679.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I wouldn't want any "dope puffing
> socialist" determining who is gonna live or die in the end, any
> more than I would want a D&D player thinking he was King Arthur
> commanding the troops in Battle, on Bunker Hill no less.
>
> None of us gamers is like that, thank you.
>
> Susan
Are you saying you play *roleplaying* games, like
Dungeons and Dragons? I'm inclined to ask how old
you are, and whether or not -you- have Children.
Where do -you- find the time for it, and why
would -you-?
bd4u
Susan Cohen
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110349095.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Susan Cohen wrote:
>> <gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>> news:1110339679.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > I wouldn't want any "dope puffing
>> socialist" determining who is gonna live or die in the end, any
>> more than I would want a D&D player thinking he was King Arthur
>> commanding the troops in Battle, on Bunker Hill no less.
>>
>> None of us gamers is like that, thank you.
>>
>> Susan
>
> Are you saying you play *roleplaying* games, like
> Dungeons and Dragons? I'm inclined to ask how old
> you are, and whether or not -you- have Children.
> Where do -you- find the time for it, and why
> would -you-?
I am actually a LARPer - "Live Action Role Player" - I do not play
"hack-n-slash".
In fact I very much dislike "live combat" as it's called on the East Coast
(that I know of). Even tho' they take care that no one actually gets hurt,
the physical limitations on the imaginary irritate me, but, more
importantly, the minute someone even looks like they want to hit me, I sort
of *don't* have fun, IYKWIM.
I don't do it as often as I used to because of the baby, of course, but
there are lots of reasons I do it.
When I was younger, I wanted to be an actress - but now I get to be one
*without* having to take off my clothes & suck face with someone not my
husband.
I am also a student of historical costume, and LARPing gives me great scope
for costuming.
I also helped write a game with my husband (before we were married) - I love
the creative aspect of that, too.
Susan
gig...@netscape.net
Renesaince fairs and all. I also remember
my days in the Military, and those that
had the most difficulty getting with the program.
It was all a *game* to them.
bd4u
R?ain - ריעין
"Michael Grosberg" <preac...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110305960.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
:
: Clangador wrote:
: > Michael Grosberg wrote:
: > > Zot ! wrote:
: > > > Interesting. Does anyone knows what is policy of the others side
: -
: > > > could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
: > > >
: > > >
: > > > http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html
: > > >
: > > > Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons
: > > >
: > >
: > > Actually, the article is a bit misleading. It's Rd&d, not normal
: d&d,
: > > that the IDF has a problem with.
: >
: > And what's the diff?
:
: Rd&d is the version where you play outside, in costume, using foam
: covered weapons.
: So these are people who are into strategy and decision making, like to
: spend time outside, and enjoy physical efort that includes running
: around in rugged terrain while lugging weapons.
:
: Why on earth would the IDF want such people? They are clearly unfit
for
: the military lifestyle.
:
R?ain - ריעין
"NYC XYZ" <jack_fo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110343207.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
:
:
Malachias Invictus
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110324233....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hehh, I figured I would incur the wrath of a bunch of
> mental midgets,
Wrath?!? Bitch, you almost made me laugh.
> who play Roleplaying games.
Ooooh. Scary.
> Listen to them jabber and talk.
Take your meds, mate.
> It sounds like a Star Trek convention all the sudden.
I have met some of the folks from Warp 11. Kiki Stockhammer is pretty hot
in real life too.
> Oh well..
Are you going to cry now?
--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.
from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
John Phillips
<gigo448 wrote
Ren faires and the SCA?
Ok, that explains a lot then..
John
gig...@netscape.net
Only in relationship to the other poster.
Otherwise it means little in the discussion
of RD&D. *roleplaying*, is fantasy, and fantasy
I'm afraid just ain't *reality*, and anybody who
thinks otherwise, aughta jump into a *live*
firefight some time.
>
>
> John
End of discussion..
Malachias Invictus
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110349095.8...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Are you saying you play *roleplaying* games, like
> Dungeons and Dragons? I'm inclined to ask how old
> you are, and whether or not -you- have Children.
Tons of gamers have children, dumbass.
> Where do -you- find the time for it,
I find time for it because I barely work. I make enough money not to have
to as often as most folks. The majority of the free time goes to the kids,
of course, but D&D, Esperanto, piano, the occasional computer game, and
other pursuits have their time.
> and why would -you-?
Interactive entertainment, simpleton.
Malachias Invictus
"Susan Cohen" <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:OIwXd.81869$wc.37864@trnddc07...
> When I was younger, I wanted to be an actress - but now I get to be one
> *without* having to take off my clothes & suck face with someone not my
> husband.
Face? Methinks you may be a bit naive on this point.
Malachias Invictus
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110350746.0...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Yeah, I remember my days in SCA, and the
> Renesaince fairs and all.
So, you are a bitter ex-geek. That explains a few things.
> I also remember
> my days in the Military, and those that
> had the most difficulty getting with the program.
>
> It was all a *game* to them.
Some people can get the job done, others cannot hack it. Their choice of
hobby is no clear indicator.
gig...@netscape.net
Malachias Invictus wrote:
> "Susan Cohen" <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:OIwXd.81869$wc.37864@trnddc07...
>
> > When I was younger, I wanted to be an actress - but now I get to be
one
> > *without* having to take off my clothes & suck face with someone
not my
> > husband.
>
> Face? Methinks you may be a bit naive on this point.
LOL, naive about what? Sounds honest enuff.
gig...@netscape.net
Malachias Invictus wrote:
> <gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:1110350746.0...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Yeah, I remember my days in SCA, and the
> > Renesaince fairs and all.
>
> So, you are a bitter ex-geek. That explains a few things.
Hehh, me Bitter? You just see my web side sarcasm.
You don't even know me. An from your previous statement
it looks like *you* are the one that NEVER got through Puberty.
>
> > I also remember
> > my days in the Military, and those that
> > had the most difficulty getting with the program.
> >
> > It was all a *game* to them.
>
> Some people can get the job done, others cannot hack it. Their
choice of
> hobby is no clear indicator.
While others live in a fantasy land, and can't seem to
connect with reality. Obviously NOT everybody that plays D&D
are *lifers* at it. Some people got better things to do with
their time, when it boils down to it.
gig...@netscape.net
as well. Nothing quite like having a REAL Navy Colt
in your hands. I'll tell ya one thing, it ain't NO *toy*.
Lorenz Lang
> Werebat <ranpo...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>Anyway, the US basically owns Israel, and when we tell them to jump
>>they'd damn well better ask "how high?". If we felt like changing their
>>internal policies all we'd have to do is make the demand. Personally I
>>don't really care. let them forbid Palestinian-blooded folks from
>>entering their military too, or whatever it is they do in that backward,
>>desert, camel-kissing region of the world.
> Eh, WHAT?
> my city:
> http://www.haifa.muni.il
> and some photos from its tourist board:
> http://www.tour-haifa.co.il/heb/gallery/index.phtml
>
> desert? camels? where?
Photoshop.
1. Yellow made blue.
2. Stamp surfers over the camels.
We are too smart to be fooled by your tourist propaganda.
> I guess everything else you KNOW is just as accurate.
Well, Ron knows something, but MSB knows everything.
With these two on our side, we're always the winners.
LL
Werebat
Uri Bruck wrote:
> Werebat <ranpo...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>gig...@netscape.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>>R?ain - ריעין wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>You are forgetting that we are talking about 18-year-olds right out
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>high school, who face the high probability of being killed before
>>>
>>>they
>>>
>>>
>>>>turn 21.
>>>
>>>
>>>Precisely the point of arguement with the IDF. I got nothing
>>>against D&D, it can be alot of fun escaping reality. That's
>>>what daydreams are made of. But unfortunately bullets and
>>>warfare are for *real*, and I wouldn't want a *kid* handling
>>>classified information. I don't think the IDF does either.
>>
>>So... Anyone interested in anything involving a temporary escape from
>>reality should be restricted from handling classified information? You
>>mean people who read narrative fiction, and people who dress up for
>>Halloween, and people who go to the theatre? That's an... interesting
>>viewpoint.
>>
>>I'm not at all surprised by any of this, really -- most militaries are
>>very much SJ organizations, and as such have little ability or desire to
>>incorporate more flexible and intuitive types. Nothing new there.
>>
>>Anyway, the US basically owns Israel, and when we tell them to jump
>>they'd damn well better ask "how high?". If we felt like changing their
>>internal policies all we'd have to do is make the demand. Personally I
>>don't really care. let them forbid Palestinian-blooded folks from
>>entering their military too, or whatever it is they do in that backward,
>>desert, camel-kissing region of the world.
>
> Eh, WHAT?
> my city:
> http://www.haifa.muni.il
> and some photos from its tourist board:
> http://www.tour-haifa.co.il/heb/gallery/index.phtml
>
> desert? camels? where?
>
> I guess everything else you KNOW is just as accurate.
You forgot to say, "Thank you, American Citizen -- Thank you, a thousand
times thank you!
I pay taxes so you get to live, ingrate.
- Ron ^*^
Werebat
gig...@netscape.net wrote:
> Werebat wrote:
>
>>gig...@netscape.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>>R?ain - ריעין wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>You are forgetting that we are talking about 18-year-olds right out
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>high school, who face the high probability of being killed before
>>>
>>>they
>>>
>>>
>>>>turn 21.
>>>
>>>
>>>Precisely the point of arguement with the IDF. I got nothing
>>>against D&D, it can be alot of fun escaping reality. That's
>>>what daydreams are made of. But unfortunately bullets and
>>>warfare are for *real*, and I wouldn't want a *kid* handling
>>>classified information. I don't think the IDF does either.
>>
>>So... Anyone interested in anything involving a temporary escape
>
> from
>
>>reality should be restricted from handling classified information?
>
> You
>
>>mean people who read narrative fiction, and people who dress up for
>>Halloween, and people who go to the theatre? That's an...
>
> interesting
>
>>viewpoint.
>
>
> You are stretching the point and proping up strawmen. Nothing
> new really for somebody with a wild imagination.
I'm not really "proping" up strawmen or anything else. I'm just
following your argument to its logical conclusion.
If you don't like where it goes, you tell me -- where is the line where
you think recreational escape from reality is "OK"? Why?
If you can't answer these questions, I'm afraid my statements are going
to have to stand.
>>I'm not at all surprised by any of this, really -- most militaries
>
> are
>
>>very much SJ organizations, and as such have little ability or desire
>
> to
>
>>incorporate more flexible and intuitive types. Nothing new there.
>
>
> They can't afford to, live at at risk believe it or not.
<Shrug> SJs (do you know what I am talking about?) are the most
organization-minded of people, but organizations comprised solely of SJs
have some rather gaping flaws that expose them to many threats. Not the
least of which is that the SJs typically can't see those flaws until
they have been exploited.
>>Anyway, the US basically owns Israel, and when we tell them to jump
>>they'd damn well better ask "how high?". If we felt like changing
>
> their
>
>>internal policies all we'd have to do is make the demand. Personally
>
> I
>
>>don't really care. let them forbid Palestinian-blooded folks from
>>entering their military too, or whatever it is they do in that
>
> backward,
>
>>desert, camel-kissing region of the world. Give it a few more
>
> decades
>
>>and the oil will run out and then they can all blow each other to
>>Kingdom Come for all the US is going to care -- we'll cluck our
>
> tongues
>
>>"tsk tsk tsk" and shake our heads like we do every time some ignorant
>
>
>>dirt-eating African tribe butchers some other ignorant dirt-eating
>>African tribe, and then go back to watching the Superbowl. Way it
>
> is.
>
>> - Ron ^*^
>
>
> More strawmen.
How was anything I said an argument I "set up" so I could "knock it
down"? I don't think you know what a strawman IS.
> In the meantime I wouldn't want any "dope puffing
> socialist" determining who is gonna live or die in the end, any
> more than I would want a D&D player thinking he was King Arthur
> commanding the troops in Battle, on Bunker Hill no less.
You know, I was about to point out that you have a very warped view of
D&D players in general, but I just realized that you live in Isreal. It
might be that your average Isreali really *IS* the kind of mentally
deranged sot that shouldn't be let near the game. After all, some of
you people still think you're something other than a tool of the USA, a
tool that will be discarded as it loses its utility. Heh. Imagine that.
> Leave the toys at home.. ..you want R&R, have a beer, and hit
> the showers. Read a book or somethin.. ..they might call it
> "wargames", but war ain't no game.
Neither is blowing up Palestinian kids, you sadistic Nazi bastard.
I have a 40th level Warlock who will summon a Pit Fiend on your ass.
- Ron ^*^
Michael Grosberg
R?ain - øéòéï wrote:
> Is that what they told you, when they rejected you?
>
clearance) and ocasionally call on me for reserve duty.
I have never played d&d in my life, due to the fact that I didn't find
it particularly interesting.
Oh, and one more thing...
Troll O Meter
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
___________________________________________________
| | | | | | | | | | |
---------------------------------------------------
^
|
Don't quit your dayjob.
Werebat
gig...@netscape.net wrote:
Yeah, maybe they "aughta".
You were into SCA? That lameass thing where people automatically lose
and arm or a leg every time they get hit with a piece of padded PCV
pipe? Man, that DOES explain a lot.
- Ron ^*^
Werebat
gig...@netscape.net wrote:
> While others live in a fantasy land, and can't seem to
> connect with reality. Obviously NOT everybody that plays D&D
> are *lifers* at it. Some people got better things to do with
> their time,
Like troll newsgroups? :^)
- Ron ^*^
Werebat
Susan Cohen wrote:
> "NYC XYZ" <jack_fo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1110343207.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
>>LOL -- I agree...except that that's precisely GWB's attitude at first,
>>and now look where we are....
>>
>>Hate to say it, but all these cavemen make themselves our problem....
>>
>>And I don't think America owns Israel so much as Israel owns the US.
>
>
> Oh, good grief - one is even more ignorant than the other.
I agree that both Israel and the USA are ignorant.
However, Israel is the tool of the US, and not the other way 'round.
For now I can see why many would think it was that way, but just wait
and see what happens when the oil runs out. Then even American Jews
won't give a flying rat's ass about their distanced cousins who were
stupid enough to go try to scrabble out a living in that godforsaken
wasteland. The proof is in the pudding.
- Ron ^*^
gig...@netscape.net
LOL, man if -you- can't figure it out. Do you think I could tell you?!?
>
> If you can't answer these questions, I'm afraid my statements are
going
> to have to stand.
>
They can stand all -you- want, on solid ground that is.
>
> >>I'm not at all surprised by any of this, really -- most militaries
> >
> > are
> >
> >>very much SJ organizations, and as such have little ability or
desire
> >
> > to
> >
> >>incorporate more flexible and intuitive types. Nothing new there.
> >
> >
> > They can't afford to, live at at risk believe it or not.
>
> <Shrug> SJs (do you know what I am talking about?) are the most
> organization-minded of people, but organizations comprised solely of
SJs
> have some rather gaping flaws that expose them to many threats. Not
the
> least of which is that the SJs typically can't see those flaws until
> they have been exploited.
>
Any good chess player can play chess.
Werebat
Dirk Collins wrote:
> just...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Zot ! wrote:
>>
>>> In a more "active" version of the game, players leave the table and
>>
>>
>> go
>>
>>> out, dressed as the characters they assume for the game, along with
>>> the requisite equipment of swords (not real) to play outside, usually
>>> in the forest or woods.
>>>
>>
>>
>> What the hell this has to do with D&D I don't know. Sounds more like a
>> sport *spit*.
>
>
> It is, it's called Trolling. Got a rise out of a few troll-o-meters this
> did...
I think he's kinda cute, really. So young and wet behind the ears... I
couldn't help but feed the cute little fella.
- Ron ^*^
gig...@netscape.net
Werebat wrote:
> Susan Cohen wrote:
>
> > "NYC XYZ" <jack_fo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1110343207.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >>
> >>LOL -- I agree...except that that's precisely GWB's attitude at
first,
> >>and now look where we are....
> >>
> >>Hate to say it, but all these cavemen make themselves our
problem....
> >>
> >>And I don't think America owns Israel so much as Israel owns the
US.
> >
> >
> > Oh, good grief - one is even more ignorant than the other.
>
> I agree that both Israel and the USA are ignorant.
>
> However, Israel is the tool of the US, and not the other way 'round.
Israel ain't ANYbodies fool. It's an Independant State.
An has been since i believe 1948. It ain't anybodies mouthpiece
however it does co-operate with the other Nations, it's NOT
out to "get anybody" if that's what -you- are meaning.
> For now I can see why many would think it was that way, but just wait
> and see what happens when the oil runs out. Then even American Jews
> won't give a flying rat's ass about their distanced cousins who were
> stupid enough to go try to scrabble out a living in that godforsaken
> wasteland. The proof is in the pudding.
Oil does not an oasis make.
>
> - Ron ^*^
Susan Cohen
"Malachias Invictus" <capt_ma...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:24mdnfIVtNC...@comcast.com...
>
> "Susan Cohen" <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:OIwXd.81869$wc.37864@trnddc07...
>
>> When I was younger, I wanted to be an actress - but now I get to be one
>> *without* having to take off my clothes & suck face with someone not my
>> husband.
>
> Face? Methinks you may be a bit naive on this point.
You're discussing x-rated movies - I'm talking about more usual ones.
Susan
Susan Cohen
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110365058.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>I used to do Civil War re-enactments at one time
> as well. Nothing quite like having a REAL Navy Colt
> in your hands. I'll tell ya one thing, it ain't NO *toy*.
I had to give it up because most of the people doing it back then were pigs.
And yes, I had an1851 Sheriff's Colt (repro).
I suppose I should get rid of my clothes from then, because after 25 years,
they no longer fit.
Susan
Susan Cohen
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110358417.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Malachias Invictus wrote:
>> "Susan Cohen" <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:OIwXd.81869$wc.37864@trnddc07...
>>
>> > When I was younger, I wanted to be an actress - but now I get to be
> one
>> > *without* having to take off my clothes & suck face with someone
> not my
>> > husband.
>>
>> Face? Methinks you may be a bit naive on this point.
>
> LOL, naive about what? Sounds honest enuff.
I suspect he means the casting couch.
Susan
Hong Ooi
>
>Werebat wrote:
>> Susan Cohen wrote:
>>
>> > "NYC XYZ" <jack_fo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1110343207.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> >>
>> >>LOL -- I agree...except that that's precisely GWB's attitude at
>first,
>> >>and now look where we are....
>> >>
>> >>Hate to say it, but all these cavemen make themselves our
>problem....
>> >>
>> >>And I don't think America owns Israel so much as Israel owns the
>US.
>> >
>> >
>> > Oh, good grief - one is even more ignorant than the other.
>>
>> I agree that both Israel and the USA are ignorant.
>>
>> However, Israel is the tool of the US, and not the other way 'round.
>
>Israel ain't ANYbodies fool. It's an Independant State.
>An has been since i believe 1948.
Sorry, you're out by one year. It was in 1949 that the Communists marched
into Tel Aviv, proclaiming the modern-day People's Republic of Israel, NOT
1948. In the same year the Palestinians fled to Taiwan, and Palestine and
Israel have both claimed sovereignty over the other since.
>It ain't anybodies mouthpiece
>however it does co-operate with the other Nations, it's NOT
>out to "get anybody" if that's what -you- are meaning.
Explain Taiwan, then.
--
Hong Ooi | "COUNTERSRTIKE IS AN REAL-TIME
ho...@zipworld.com.au | STRATEGY GAME!!!"
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | -- RR
Sydney, Australia |
Susan Cohen
"Werebat" <ranpo...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:9NBXd.56253$7z6.27911@lakeread04...
>
>
> Uri Bruck wrote:
>>
>>
>> Eh, WHAT?
>> my city:
>> http://www.haifa.muni.il
>> and some photos from its tourist board:
>> http://www.tour-haifa.co.il/heb/gallery/index.phtml
>>
>> desert? camels? where?
>>
>> I guess everything else you KNOW is just as accurate.
>
> You forgot to say, "Thank you, American Citizen -- Thank you, a thousand
> times thank you!
>
> I pay taxes so you get to live, ingrate.
You have absolutely no clue, moron.
Susan
>
> - Ron ^*^
>
Susan Cohen
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110372865.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Werebat wrote:
>> Susan Cohen wrote:
>>
>> > "NYC XYZ" <jack_fo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1110343207.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> >>
>> >>LOL -- I agree...except that that's precisely GWB's attitude at
> first,
>> >>and now look where we are....
>> >>
>> >>Hate to say it, but all these cavemen make themselves our
> problem....
>> >>
>> >>And I don't think America owns Israel so much as Israel owns the
> US.
>> >
>> >
>> > Oh, good grief - one is even more ignorant than the other.
>>
>> I agree that both Israel and the USA are ignorant.
VROOOOOM!
>>
>> However, Israel is the tool of the US, and not the other way 'round.
>
> Israel ain't ANYbodies fool. It's an Independant State.
> An has been since i believe 1948. It ain't anybodies mouthpiece
> however it does co-operate with the other Nations, it's NOT
> out to "get anybody" if that's what -you- are meaning.
>
>
>> For now I can see why many would think it was that way, but just wait
>
>> and see what happens when the oil runs out. Then even American Jews
>> won't give a flying rat's ass about their distanced cousins who were
>> stupid enough to go try to scrabble out a living in that godforsaken
>> wasteland. The proof is in the pudding.
>
> Oil does not an oasis make.
And it's not like Israel really has any.
The real problem is also not the oil.
It's the terrorists.
Israe is our only stopgap over there.
If anything, the oil running out would be a god send, because then the US
will have NO reason to suck up to the Saudis (the prime force behind the
terrorists).
Susan
gig...@netscape.net
Let's hope so, but I don't recall it coming up in what you said.
Being a man and a geek at that, i was never on the casting
couch to begin with. So whatdo i know about it, except what my
many girlfriends told me.
>
> Susan
Now we are off topic.
Oh well..
Lorenz Lang
>
> "Malachias Invictus" <capt_ma...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:24mdnfIVtNC...@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Susan Cohen" <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:OIwXd.81869$wc.37864@trnddc07...
>>
>>> When I was younger, I wanted to be an actress - but now I get to be one
>>> *without* having to take off my clothes & suck face with someone not my
>>> husband.
>>
>> Face? Methinks you may be a bit naive on this point.
>
> You're discussing x-rated movies - I'm talking about more usual ones.
>
X-rated like in X-mas? I don't get the joke.
Hong Ooi
wrote:
>
><gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>news:1110372865.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Werebat wrote:
>>> For now I can see why many would think it was that way, but just wait
>>> and see what happens when the oil runs out. Then even American Jews
>>> won't give a flying rat's ass about their distanced cousins who were
>>> stupid enough to go try to scrabble out a living in that godforsaken
>>> wasteland. The proof is in the pudding.
>>
>> Oil does not an oasis make.
>
>And it's not like Israel really has any.
Well, of course not, since the US has taken it all. Why d'you think Israel
invaded Iraq? "Regime change"? Hah!
gig...@netscape.net
Don't know, never played it. Are -you- basing reality on
some computer game? Well it looks like -you- came to the *right*
place!
bd4u
gig...@netscape.net
of the US oil supply from the middle east.
Oh well, your ignorance not mine. But thanks for reminding me.
Susan had already touched upon it. Personally I don't really
wanna discuss it. It's not like the Jews built that thing
to begin with.
bd4u
Susan Cohen
"Hong Ooi" <ho...@zipworld.com.au> wrote in message
news:pbtt21t7nak22pe6q...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 13:05:21 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <flav...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>><gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>news:1110372865.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> Werebat wrote:
>>>> For now I can see why many would think it was that way, but just wait
>>>> and see what happens when the oil runs out. Then even American Jews
>>>> won't give a flying rat's ass about their distanced cousins who were
>>>> stupid enough to go try to scrabble out a living in that godforsaken
>>>> wasteland. The proof is in the pudding.
>>>
>>> Oil does not an oasis make.
>>
>>And it's not like Israel really has any.
>
> Well, of course not, since the US has taken it all.
Uh, it *never* had much.
Where are you getting this tuff?
Why d'you think Israel
> invaded Iraq? "Regime change"? Hah!
Oh, I think we're being trolled.
Susan
Susan Cohen
"Lorenz Lang" <la...@netlife.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.03.09...@netlife.invalid...
Oh, you must be too young to remember what the rating was before "NC-17".
Now run along & finish getting ready for school.
Susan
gig...@netscape.net
Susan Cohen wrote:
> <gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:1110365058.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >I used to do Civil War re-enactments at one time
> > as well. Nothing quite like having a REAL Navy Colt
> > in your hands. I'll tell ya one thing, it ain't NO *toy*.
>
> I had to give it up because most of the people doing it back then
were pigs.
> And yes, I had an1851 Sheriff's Colt (repro).
Cool..
Was that a .44 or a .45, the Navy is a .44 colt. An -you- could often
tell
which side the fella was on because of it.
> I suppose I should get rid of my clothes from then, because after 25
years,
> they no longer fit.
>
It's an expensive hobby to get into to begin with. I couldn't
afford the pieces that I had *borrowed*. I was too busy seeing
the world.
> Susan
Lorenz Lang
At 2:48 pm? Ready for school? Nice try.
You don't get rid of me so easy.
I just came home from school and have plenty of time to discuss
important matters on this web-board.
LL
Susan Cohen
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110376028.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Susan Cohen wrote:
>> <gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
>> news:1110365058.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> >I used to do Civil War re-enactments at one time
>> > as well. Nothing quite like having a REAL Navy Colt
>> > in your hands. I'll tell ya one thing, it ain't NO *toy*.
>>
>> I had to give it up because most of the people doing it back then
> were pigs.
>> And yes, I had an1851 Sheriff's Colt (repro).
>
> Cool..
>
> Was that a .44 or a .45, the Navy is a .44 colt.
I honestly forget.
It got stolen, so I no longer have it.
An -you- could often
> tell
> which side the fella was on because of it.
>
>> I suppose I should get rid of my clothes from then, because after 25
> years,
>> they no longer fit.
>>
>
> It's an expensive hobby to get into to begin with. I couldn't
> afford the pieces that I had *borrowed*. I was too busy seeing
> the world.
It's a shame I didn't realize how well I could sew back then (I was just a
kid) - I could have saved a fortune.
Susan
>
>
>> Susan
>
NYC XYZ
Sufferin' samurais -- it's Susan Cohen, X-tian convert!
> Stop reading PLO propaganda.
So Sharon didn't say that?
Will you also deny that Abba Eban said that "there's no business like
Shoah business"??
> Susan
NYC XYZ
Werebat wrote:
>
>
>
>
> I agree that both Israel and the USA are ignorant.
>
> However, Israel is the tool of the US, and not the other way 'round.
> For now I can see why many would think it was that way, but just wait
> and see what happens when the oil runs out.
I agree about oil being the main concern, and I was being facetious
about AIPAC controlling the US. They do have undue influence, however,
and so my comment was only half-jest. After all, it'd be easier for
the US to align with the Arabs due to oil than have to antagonize them
'cause of Israel.
Truly, if Israel weren't on the map, do you think the oil would stop
flowing? It'd be business as usual. So Israel being an ally,
blah-blah-blah, is only a result of AIPAC and the Millennial X-tians'
support, not 'cause of any rational geopolitical advantage.
But anyway, that's another topic. And I haven't anything against
Israel -- they can go on conquering those ignorant Arabs for all I
care. It's like orcs and goblins fighting one another in the world of
D&D...why should humans and elves get involved??
> Then even American Jews
> won't give a flying rat's ass about their distanced cousins who were
> stupid enough to go try to scrabble out a living in that godforsaken
> wasteland.
Actually, most of those folks wanted to go to America after WWII.
Ben-Gurion and the Zionists deliberately engineered matters to force
them into then-Palestine. It's a real shame.
Beware the flag-wavers! They are the first ones to sell you down the
river.
NYC XYZ
R?ain - øéòéï wrote:
> Yet another Jew-Hating cunt
My! Are you the SCJ Chief Rabbi or something, deciding who's
anti-Semitic??
Rabid, rabid...what a Nazi! Or are you from Betar?
Malachias Invictus
Indeed, although it was more of a wise crack than anything.
gig...@netscape.net
NYC XYZ wrote:
> Werebat wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I agree that both Israel and the USA are ignorant.
> >
> > However, Israel is the tool of the US, and not the other way
'round.
> > For now I can see why many would think it was that way, but just
wait
>
> > and see what happens when the oil runs out.
>
> I agree about oil being the main concern, and I was being facetious
> about AIPAC controlling the US. They do have undue influence,
however,
> and so my comment was only half-jest. After all, it'd be easier for
> the US to align with the Arabs due to oil than have to antagonize
them
> 'cause of Israel.
More like the PNAC Platoon, along with Moon.
But who's controlling Moon?
http://www.americanpolitics.com/20030728Baker.html
Malachias Invictus
> You were into SCA? That lameass thing where people automatically lose
> and arm or a leg every time they get hit with a piece of padded PCV
> pipe?
To be fair, it *is* a pretty fun sport. Plus, we are talking manly
*RATTAN*, not that wimply pipe stuff.
gig...@netscape.net
Malachias Invictus wrote:
> "Werebat" <ranpo...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:e_BXd.56256$7z6.27656@lakeread04...
>
> > You were into SCA? That lameass thing where people automatically
lose
> > and arm or a leg every time they get hit with a piece of padded PCV
> > pipe?
>
> To be fair, it *is* a pretty fun sport. Plus, we are talking manly
> *RATTAN*, not that wimply pipe stuff.
I used to work in a Prosthetic department. Made my own
weapons and sheild thank *you*. I couldn't understand why
they wore Armor to begin with. clumsiest mess I ever did see.
I could topple a man before he even got his shield up
Three strikes an he was outa there. Of course i wasn't allowed
to compete in any tourney that way.
bd4u
Malachias Invictus
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110358847....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...> > news:1110350746.0...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > > Yeah, I remember my days in SCA, and the
> > > Renesaince fairs and all.
> >
> > So, you are a bitter ex-geek. That explains a few things.
>
> Hehh, me Bitter? You just see my web side sarcasm.
Keep telling yourself that, mate.
> You don't even know me.
So? That doesn't stop *you* from talking a load of pants out of your arse,
does it?
> An from your previous statement
> it looks like *you* are the one that NEVER got through Puberty.
It was really hard on you when your Peter Pan Syndrome was brutally ripped
from your life, wasn't it?
> > > I also remember
> > > my days in the Military, and those that
> > > had the most difficulty getting with the program.
> > >
> > > It was all a *game* to them.
> >
> > Some people can get the job done, others cannot hack it. Their
> choice of
> > hobby is no clear indicator.
>
> While others live in a fantasy land, and can't seem to
> connect with reality.
That goes for just about anybody.
> Obviously NOT everybody that plays D&D
> are *lifers* at it.
...and of those that are, most have well-adjusted lives. Most that I
personally know do, at least.
> Some people got better things to do with
> their time, when it boils down to it.
You mean like drinking beer, as you previously suggested? Some of us can
multitask that, mate.
Malachias Invictus
>
> "Malachias Invictus" <capt_ma...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:24mdnfIVtNC...@comcast.com...
> >
> > "Susan Cohen" <flav...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:OIwXd.81869$wc.37864@trnddc07...
> >
> >> When I was younger, I wanted to be an actress - but now I get to be one
> >> *without* having to take off my clothes & suck face with someone not my
> >> husband.
> >
> > Face? Methinks you may be a bit naive on this point.
>
> You're discussing x-rated movies - I'm talking about more usual ones.
I am talking about getting cast for the role.
gig...@netscape.net
Multitask what? A beer is a beer. Don't make reality more complicated
than it is, when someone pulls a trigger, somebody else winds up
DEAD depending on whow good a shot, what they are aiming at,
and whether they hit it! No multitasking to it, if -you- think
to long on it you're dead instead!
>
> --
> ^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^
>
> It matters not how strait the gate,
> How charged with punishment the scroll,
> I am the Master of my fate:
> I am the Captain of my soul.
You just go ahead and do that, and see how
well it stops a bullet from killing -you- dead!
>
> from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
I don't care who the hell it is..
bd4u
Malachias Invictus
<gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:1110387312....@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Thanks for making my point.
> A beer is a beer.
WRONG.
> Don't make reality more complicated than it is
Impossible, really.
> when someone pulls a trigger, somebody else winds up
> DEAD depending on whow good a shot, what they are aiming at,
> and whether they hit it!
I think you are having one of those 'Nam flashbacks again, mang.
> No multitasking to it, if -you- think
> to long on it you're dead instead!
Get those meds. Stat.
> > It matters not how strait the gate,
> > How charged with punishment the scroll,
> > I am the Master of my fate:
> > I am the Captain of my soul.
>
> You just go ahead and do that,
Do what?
> and see how well it stops a bullet from killing -you- dead!
Thus far, my powers have stopped that from happening.
> > from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
> I don't care who the hell it is..
No one asked you.
--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.
from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Rump Ranger
Rivercat wrote:
> "Peter Knutsen" <pe...@sagatafl.invalid> wrote in message
> news:394pp6F...@individual.net...
> >
> > Rivercat wrote:
> >> "Zot !" <zotti...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>Interesting. Does anyone knows what is policy of the others side -
> >>>could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
> >>>
> >>>http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html
> >>>
> >>>Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons
> >>>
> >>>IDF says players are detached from reality and automatically given
a
> >>>low security clearance
> >>
> >> snip
> >>
> >> I think that the IDF's policy tells us more about the IDF than it
does
> >> about D&D players.
> >>
> >> One of the strengths of D&D is that it teaches players to look at
a wide
> >> range of options when solving the problems that arise in the game.
That
> >> particularly applies when running a character of any complexity.
> >
> > It is true that roleplaying gaming attracts the creative fraction
of the
> > population.
> >
> > But on the other hand, D&D in particular is quite detached from
reality,
> > with experienced heroes tending to have a ton of hit points, so
that they
> > are guaranteed to not be taken down by any single hit. There is
also a
> > tendency among many GMs (although perhaps less so with D&D3 than
with
> > other systems) to simply not let PCs die, no matter what.
> >
> > A system with more realistic combat rules, and ran by a GM with a
> > "sometimes shit shappen" attitude, would much better serve the
needs of a
> > military force, by encouraging caution and stealth, rather than
just
> > mindless Conan-style bravery.
> >
> > On the third hand, the IDF is kinda a dangerous organization to be
in
> > (more so than just living in Israel, which is plenty dangerous in
itself),
> > so it is very possible that some people, who wanted to escape the
draft
> > (there's 3 years compulsory military service in Israel, for both
men and
> > women) have exagarrated the degree of reality disconnect that
usually
> > occurs among D&D players.
> >
> > In fact, that's often how rumours get started. Somebody wants to be
> > percieved as very weird (for whatever reason), and so he will claim
> > (possibly 100% truthfully) to be involved in a wide range of
unusual
> > activities, some harmless such as roleplaying gaming and others
more or
> > less edgy. People who were exposed to that one weird individual
will, from
> > then on, associate the playing of D&D with all those (more or less)
edgy
> > activities (ritual sacrifice of puppies, drug use, group sex, or
> > whatever).
> >
> >> I guess that would teach people to think for themselves, and not
blindly
> >> accept whatever their superiors tell them.
> >>
> >> That could be what the IDF is really concerned about.
> >
> > There's a limit to how much regular armed forces soldiers *should*
think
> > for themselvew. And Israel *is* a threatened nation. It needs to
defend
> > itself.
> >
> > --
> > Peter Knutsen
> > sagatafl.org
>
> You've made some interesting observations.
>
> Aside from a very small percentage of players who are not so much
detached
> from reality as entirely divorced - easily recognised because they
dress up
> as their characters and parade around the country side waving objects
at
> passersby - I would argue that most D&D players are pretty much sane,
and
> acutely aware of the real vulnerability of their characters in
properly run
> adventures. I would also be prepared to argue that there is a world
of
> difference between deciding the fate of a character by rolling dice
on a
> table, and lying in a muddy or dusty fold in the ground, hoping to
get even
> lower, while being shot at by some bastard with an RPG or a AK47.
>
> As for your argument that some draftees have tried to dodge the draft
by
> claiming to be D&D victims, it is a bit more original than fleeing to
> Canada.
Maybe so, but to get out of the IDF's draft all you need to do is
become a religious fanatic. I'm talking about a hardcore Shepardim.
>As for the 'edgy activities (ritual sacrifice of puppies, drug
> use, group sex, or whatever)' I have to admit that none of these
events have
> ever come up at a game I have attended - and to be fair, the guys in
my
> gaming group have never caused me to want to engage in group sex with
them.
> Now, if there were more female players...
>
> And finally, on the limits of how much regular soldiers 'should'
think for
> themselves - I would point out that soldiers are most dangerous when
they
> stop thinking for themselves - obeying orders is not a defence for
war
> crimes. The last bunch to try that defence wound up being tried at
> Nuremburg.
I'd say you're wrong. The last bunch who used that defense
are.......pretty much *every* soldier or cop who's commited an atrocity
in the name of the State they're hired thugs for. I used to be a US
soldier, and while it is technically true that you can challenge an
"illegal order" (usually defined less on law than what makes the
military look bad PR wise), soldiers are certainly *not taught* how to
challenge authority. It's the basic point of BCT (i.e. boot camp).
You keep your mouth shut and do what you're told. The police use a
variant of the Nurembourg Defense: what they're doing is "enforcing"
the "law" so they can never be held accountable for commiting violence
in the State's name against people who aren't hurting anyone (such as a
pothead busted in America's bullshit War on (Some) Drugs).
I think it was Goering who said the only reason the Nazis (and imperial
Japanese) were put on war crime trials was because they lost the war.
In some respects, the bastard was right. You won't see America putting
it's own soldiers or government officials up for trial for war crimes
unless the American public raises such a stink that they have no
choice. Which is why My Lai was prosecuted even though American
officials' support for Indonesian genocide in East Timor wasn't,
despite US support for Suharto being far worse.
gig...@netscape.net
Yeah, I'm *used* to people stealing my ideas. it figures
that -you- would, not having any of your own!
>
> > A beer is a beer.
>
> WRONG.
Are you suggesting a Beer isn't a beer?
Gee that's kind of delluded of -you-.
>
> > Don't make reality more complicated than it is
>
> Impossible, really.
Then -you- must do the impossible quite often.
>
> > when someone pulls a trigger, somebody else winds up
> > DEAD depending on whow good a shot, what they are aiming at,
> > and whether they hit it!
>
> I think you are having one of those 'Nam flashbacks again, mang.
No don't think so, see cause i was never in Nam. Glad I wasn't
too, but the boys in Iraq have it even worse than the guys in
Nam EVER did.
It's like the Tet Offensive everyday there. You never know
who is gonna pop out from where. And they ALL look the same
to *americans*. The only thing obvious ARE the americans.
They stick out like a sore thumb.
>
> > No multitasking to it, if -you- think
> > to long on it you're dead instead!
>
> Get those meds. Stat.
Alot of boys are gonna need them before Bush is done.
An it ain't no laughing matter to the wives, husbands,
sons, and daughters either. Asswipe, give some respect to
the dead before -you- become one.
>
> > > It matters not how strait the gate,
> > > How charged with punishment the scroll,
> > > I am the Master of my fate:
> > > I am the Captain of my soul.
> >
> > You just go ahead and do that,
>
> Do what?
>
> > and see how well it stops a bullet from killing -you- dead!
>
> Thus far, my powers have stopped that from happening.
>
> > > from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
>
> > I don't care who the hell it is..
>
> No one asked you.
You did, remember? come back anytime if -you-
ever think you -you- didn't.
bd4u
Rump Ranger
Michael Grosberg wrote:
> Clangador wrote:
> > Michael Grosberg wrote:
> > > Zot ! wrote:
> > > > Interesting. Does anyone knows what is policy of the others
side
> -
> > > > could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html
> > > >
> > > > Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons
> > > >
> > >
> d&d,
> > > that the IDF has a problem with.
> >
> > And what's the diff?
>
> Rd&d is the version where you play outside, in costume, using foam
> covered weapons.
> So these are people who are into strategy and decision making, like
to
> spend time outside, and enjoy physical efort that includes running
> around in rugged terrain while lugging weapons.
>
> Why on earth would the IDF want such people? They are clearly unfit
for
> the military lifestyle.
Your sarcasm is appropriate. Much of military life in garrison *is*
like a Live Action Roleplaying Game. You get to wear uniforms and
pretend your ribbons and medals actually mean something and that war is
"glorious", "honorable", and that civilians are "weak losers." It's
all make believe, but there are hardcore phony macho assholes in the
military who believe all that nonsense and that anyone who dares
criticize the military (which of course never lies and every NCO is
always living up to the "Army Values" *wink*) is just a "loser" who
couldn't make it. Fact is, the military is a bureaucracy and is just
as stupid and inefficient as any other government agency. If your
criticism rings true, they'll then reply "Well, you were just a Private
and anything below E-4 should shut their mouth because they don't know
'real military things' like the politics that goes on in front of the
promotion board." Maybe if the assholes who got "rank" didn't try to
make life unpleasant for the junior enlisted because they didn't "pay
their dues", the US Armed Forces might actually have a higher retention
rate and be far more professional than it is.
Those of us in the Army who didn't let the bullshit get to our head had
a nickname for those types. The "Hooah" cult. They believed the word
"Hooah" was the magical answer for everything and that running a six
minute mile was more important than humping 10 kilos with an 80 pound
ruck in battle gear without getting sore feet. Those who were in know
what I'm talking about: "jackrabbits" that get all the special notice
because they did great on the APFT but couldn't do shit in the field.
Rump Ranger
gig...@netscape.net wrote:
> R?ain - øéòéï wrote:
> > You are forgetting that we are talking about 18-year-olds right out
> of
> > high school, who face the high probability of being killed before
> they
> > turn 21.
>
> Precisely the point of arguement with the IDF. I got nothing
> against D&D, it can be alot of fun escaping reality. That's
> what daydreams are made of. But unfortunately bullets and
> warfare are for *real*, and I wouldn't want a *kid* handling
> classified information. I don't think the IDF does either.
>
Chances are you don't know shit from sugar when it comes down to what
is classified and what is not in a military unit. If you're going to
put kids (which is what those 18 year olds are, mostly) in the
military, they're going to deal with information which is classified
from the general public. Period.
> >
> > And most D&D players I know are 18 or older.
> >
>
> Yeah i know, some are even 40 and over. Most are single,
> and many more have NO serious obligations.
>
Don't blame D&D players because you're a 40 year old obese virgin
living in your mommy's basement.
> >
> >
> >
> > <gig...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> > news:1110298599....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > :
> > : Lorenz Lang wrote:
> > : > On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 07:48:50 -0800, gigo44 wrote:
> > : >
> > : > >
> > : > > Michael Grosberg wrote:
> > : > >> Zot ! wrote:
> > : > >> > Interesting. Does anyone knows what is policy of the
others
> > side
> > : -
> > : > >> > could a D&D player become a suicide bomber?
> > : > >> >
> > : > >> >
> > : > >> > http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3052074,00.html
> > : > >> >
> > : > >> > Army frowns on Dungeons and Dragons
> > : > >> >
> > : > >>
> > : > >> Actually, the article is a bit misleading. It's Rd&d, not
> normal
> > : d&d,
> > : > >> that the IDF has a problem with.
> > : > >
> > : > > RD&D, AD&D, D&D which one do -you- consider "normal"?
> > : > >
> > : > > bd4u
> > : >
> > : > They are all pretty unnormal, absurd roll-playing games (not
> normal
> > : roleplaying games
> > : > like, say, monopoly).
> > :
> > : I don't like the way people become obsessed with the game.
> > : As if life doesn't matter to them, just the game.
> > : I used to play the game, and then I grew up. IDF
> > : rightfully lowers their security clasification
> > : IMHO in order to match their level of maturity.
> > : That of a 10 year old..
> > :
> > : bd4u
> > :
Rump Ranger
Werebat wrote:
> gig...@netscape.net wrote:
>
> > R?ain - øéòéï wrote:
> >
> >>You are forgetting that we are talking about 18-year-olds right out
> >
> > of
> >
> >>high school, who face the high probability of being killed before
> >
> > they
> >
> >>turn 21.
> >
> >
> > Precisely the point of arguement with the IDF. I got nothing
> > against D&D, it can be alot of fun escaping reality. That's
> > what daydreams are made of. But unfortunately bullets and
> > warfare are for *real*, and I wouldn't want a *kid* handling
> > classified information. I don't think the IDF does either.
>
from
> reality should be restricted from handling classified information?
You
> mean people who read narrative fiction, and people who dress up for
> Halloween, and people who go to the theatre? That's an...
interesting
> viewpoint.
>
> I'm not at all surprised by any of this, really -- most militaries
are
> very much SJ organizations, and as such have little ability or desire
to
> incorporate more flexible and intuitive types. Nothing new there.
>
> Anyway, the US basically owns Israel, and when we tell them to jump
> they'd damn well better ask "how high?".
In your dreams. It's more like Israel's *lobby* in Washington owns the
US government. When AIPAC says something (like, oh, maybe giving
Israel another couple billion in military aid to drive poor Palestinian
Arabs from their own land), the Republocrats listen. They've got
Christian fundies in the US, who are more pro-Zionist than most
Israelis are, to keep happy.
Seriously. George W. is probably the only head of state in the world
who can call Ariel Sharon a "man of peace" and actually believe it.
Not even Sharon's Likud party members believe that nonsense.
Rump Ranger
gig...@netscape.net wrote:
> Werebat wrote:
> > gig...@netscape.net wrote:
> >
> > > R?ain - øéòéï wrote:
> > >
> > >>You are forgetting that we are talking about 18-year-olds right
out
> > >
> > > of
> > >
> > >>high school, who face the high probability of being killed before
> > >
> > > they
> > >
> > >>turn 21.
> > >
> > >
> > > Precisely the point of arguement with the IDF. I got nothing
> > > against D&D, it can be alot of fun escaping reality. That's
> > > what daydreams are made of. But unfortunately bullets and
> > > warfare are for *real*, and I wouldn't want a *kid* handling
> > > classified information. I don't think the IDF does either.
> >
> > So... Anyone interested in anything involving a temporary escape
> from
> > reality should be restricted from handling classified information?
> You
> > mean people who read narrative fiction, and people who dress up for
> > Halloween, and people who go to the theatre? That's an...
> interesting
> > viewpoint.
>
> new really for somebody with a wild imagination.
>
YHBT.
> >
> > I'm not at all surprised by any of this, really -- most militaries
> are
> > very much SJ organizations, and as such have little ability or
desire
> to
> > incorporate more flexible and intuitive types. Nothing new there.
>
> They can't afford to, live at at risk believe it or not.
>
For some in the IDF, perhaps. But for most US military personel that's
just nonsense. Lots of them sit in Okinawa, Kosovo, and South Korea
and face *no threat* whatsoever. Soldiers still got to blow off steam
once in a while, even in a warzone. It's not all serious and it's
obvious you never served. If you did, you'd know soldiers can have a
real dark sense of humor and most will do anything to keep themselves
occupied during downtime. Lots of guys will play cards or craps while
on an FTX. Are they also "losers" because they enjoy it?
>
> >
> > Anyway, the US basically owns Israel, and when we tell them to jump
> > they'd damn well better ask "how high?". If we felt like changing
> their
> > internal policies all we'd have to do is make the demand.
Personally
> I
> > don't really care. let them forbid Palestinian-blooded folks from
> > entering their military too, or whatever it is they do in that
> backward,
> > desert, camel-kissing region of the world. Give it a few more
> decades
> > and the oil will run out and then they can all blow each other to
> > Kingdom Come for all the US is going to care -- we'll cluck our
> tongues
> > "tsk tsk tsk" and shake our heads like we do every time some
ignorant
>
> > dirt-eating African tribe butchers some other ignorant dirt-eating
> > African tribe, and then go back to watching the Superbowl. Way it
> is.
> >
> > - Ron ^*^
>
> More strawmen. In the meantime I wouldn't want any "dope puffing
> socialist" determining who is gonna live or die in the end, any
> more than I would want a D&D player thinking he was King Arthur
> commanding the troops in Battle, on Bunker Hill no less.
>
Irony, thy name is Usenet. You're a lame troll compared to Ron (unless
you are Ron, but then we are all Ron so it doesn't matter). This is a
strawman.
> Leave the toys at home.. ..you want R&R, have a beer,
A waste of time if there ever was one. Quick: who's more of a loser?
A group of people playing D&D or a bunch of guys getting shitfaced on
liquor and making asses out of themselves? I've done really dumb shit
I regretted while on booze. Can't say the same thing about D&D.
> and hit
> the showers. Read a book or somethin..
You have to read books to play D&D, dipshit.
>..they might call it
> "wargames", but war ain't no game.
>
Funny. The US Army released a game called "America's Army" for free
over the internet. It's a wargame and it's so grossly dishonest in
it's antiseptic treatment of what Army life is like. The kills let out
small spurts of blood and drop.
Dumbass troll. You make it so easy.