Jesus's AD&D Stats
Sarah and Mike Strutz
Anyway, I'm kinda curious about how other DM's organize their gaming
material. You see, it's time for Sarah's Great Tri-Annual Compleat Super
Reorganization and Cleaning O' the House Ritual. All these stacks of
papers, scribbled notes, NPC's on torn slips of paper, mutilated
notebooks, and Mike's collection of ancient character sheets that have
cat pee-pee on them* have got to go.
In a organization frenzy, I have scoured the 'Net looking for proggies
(freeware 'cuz I'm cheap) that will help me organize all this crap. I
have a nice collection now that will have me cleaning out my poor
cluttered hard drive as the Great Ritual nears it's compleation**.
WinSpell and the assorted Scribes are the spiffiest thus far. I'm about
to snatch me up a copy of AD&D CR2 to help, but I hear it won't quite
give me what I want as far as a spell database.
How do you guys organize your material, gaming notes, ect...etc...?
Can anyone teach me how to build a database using Windows in 10 EZ
steps? I have MSOffice but I fear Excell's and Access's Evil Tutorials
of Confusion.
(can, uh, anyone who responds to this post puh-leaze change the subject
to something else?)
--
Sarah
The Grrl without a sig. file
*long story
**only kewl people spell "Complete" as "Compleat"
Niilo Paasivirta
>Hah! Made you look.
Hah yourself. I wrote 'em years ago. In fact I made the Christian Mythos
in L&L2ndEd format, or, well, started it. It isn't very great...
Jesus ChristŽ (cleric 20)
Str 10 Dex 11 Con 13
Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 18
MV 12 SZ 6' MR None
AC 10 HD 9 HP 83
Special Att/Def: The MessiahŽ is a level 20 cleric
favoring healing spells. He was the first real
priest of God.
New spells:
Turn Water to WineŽ, level 2. Turns water to a very
fine wine, up to 1/4 gallon per caster level.
Special (Quest) spell: Multiply FoodŽ, level 5.
Multiplies foodstuff by (2 * caster level) times.
Those Ž's are things that are likely to become TSR's trademarks when
they publish the Christian Mythos. (If there is any interest, I can
post the whole Christian Mythos - it isn't anything spectacular, though...)
--
<a href="http://www.jyu.fi/%7Enp/index.html"> Niilo Paasivirta </a>
Driftin J
>Jesus ChristŽ (cleric 20)
>
>Str 10 Dex 11 Con 13
>Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 18
>MV 12 SZ 6' MR None
>AC 10 HD 9 HP 83
I would change a few things here....Wis and Cha should both be 20+..according
to the Christian mythos .he had divine wisdom and leadership..beyond the human
scale. I would also bump the Con up...40 days and 40 nights wandering the
wilderness without food requires a pretty good Constitution... and how long did
he hang on the cross before he died?
-Jack
**Old threads never die they just degenerate into flame wars**
Check out my campaign world at http://members.aol.com/Rothlarien--Contains
house rules for: Character Generation, Spell memorization, wild magic, priestly
magic, and paladins.
Henry Link
-Henry Link
Sarah and Mike Strutz
Driftin J wrote:
> >Jesus Christ® (cleric 20)
Oh, look what I started. I'm a baaaaaaaaaaaad girl.
ps.
I just found out that Winspell has a 6.2 version that lets you create and edit
spells and psionics. Who says wishes don't come true? Limited wishes anyway. :)
Christian or Denise Walker
Niilo Paasivirta <n...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi> wrote in article
<6v30h3$o...@tukki.cc.jyu.fi>...
> Sarah and Mike Strutz <str...@one.net> wrote:
> >Hah! Made you look.
>
> Hah yourself. I wrote 'em years ago. In fact I made the Christian Mythos
> in L&L2ndEd format, or, well, started it. It isn't very great...
>
>
> Jesus Christ® (cleric 20)
>
> Str 10 Dex 11 Con 13
> Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 18
> MV 12 SZ 6' MR None
> AC 10 HD 9 HP 83
>
> Special Att/Def: The Messiah® is a level 20 cleric
> favoring healing spells. He was the first real
> priest of God.
>
> New spells:
> Turn Water to Wine®, level 2. Turns water to a very
> fine wine, up to 1/4 gallon per caster level.
> Special (Quest) spell: Multiply Food®, level 5.
> Multiplies foodstuff by (2 * caster level) times.
>
>
> Those ®'s are things that are likely to become TSR's trademarks when
> they publish the Christian Mythos. (If there is any interest, I can
> post the whole Christian Mythos - it isn't anything spectacular,
though...)
>
You're right. It isn't very good. Maybe I'm missing you're humor, but do
you seriously think TSR would publish a Christian Mythos, complete with a
trademark of the Christ's attributes?!
--
Remove the 'nospam' to reply via e-mail
********************************************
"Hmmmm...I've never eaten Hobbit before. What the hell,
I say we kill him and fry him up!!"
- Dave from Knights of the Dinner Table #16
*******************************************
gaming fun at http://users.deltanet.com/~antissa
dfenz
Oh my god, it's the Satan page guy! All hail the "AD&D is evil" guy!
Buddy, you RULE! Your page is awesome! It's soooo funny!
BTW Jesus is God's avatar, not a cleric of his. This is why Mary is a
virgin, because acted directly on Jesus' count.
Craig Terral Staley
: >Jesus ChristŽ (cleric 20)
: >
: >Str 10 Dex 11 Con 13
: >Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 18
: >MV 12 SZ 6' MR None
: >AC 10 HD 9 HP 83
: I would change a few things here....Wis and Cha should both be 20+..according
: to the Christian mythos .he had divine wisdom and leadership..beyond the human
: scale. I would also bump the Con up...40 days and 40 nights wandering the
: wilderness without food requires a pretty good Constitution... and how long did
: he hang on the cross before he died?
Actually, Jesus died rather quickly on the cross. Cruxifiction generally
takes a long time. People on the cross would push themselves up with
their legs in order to live longer[1]. To stop this, the Romans would
break the legs of the victim. When they got to Jesus, they discovered
that he seemed to be dead already, which they verified by sticking the
spear in his side. Since he was already dead, they didn't break his legs
(which apparently fullfilled some ancient Jewish prophesy that the
Messiah's bones would be unbroken, or something like that).
-Craig
[1] For those who don't know, cruxifiction works because the hanging
position causes you to be unable to breathe (IIRC, you can't exhale if you
are on the cross). By pushing yourself up, you can take a few breaths.
Rob Taylor
<drif...@aol.com> writes
>
>>Jesus ChristŽ (cleric 20)
>>
>>Str 10 Dex 11 Con 13
>>Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 18
>>MV 12 SZ 6' MR None
>>AC 10 HD 9 HP 83
>
>
>I would change a few things here....Wis and Cha should both be 20+..according
>to the Christian mythos .he had divine wisdom and leadership..beyond the human
>scale. I would also bump the Con up...40 days and 40 nights wandering the
>wilderness without food requires a pretty good Constitution... and how long did
>he hang on the cross before he died?
>
didn't see what was coming?
--
Rob Taylor
"Holy Ghost, Batman!"
Pinochet
V. Mark Lehky wrote in message
>Afterthought ..... man, I'm gonna get flamed for this one .... <sigh>
For posting a binary? A day after the FAQ came out? Yes, yes, you
are. Not for the content, but the actual posting.
Driftin J
>No arguments with CHA and CON, but WIS? If he was so wise how come he
>didn't see what was coming?
He did see it coming...remember at the Last Supper he told everyone that "one
among you has betrayed me" or somesuch. I also believe that Paul (?) tried to
convince him to flee but he refused knowing that sacrificing himself would be
for the greater good of man.
Someone who is a little more up on this can give you compelete details. It's
been about 16 years since I've been to Sunday School.
Niilo Paasivirta
>: >Str 10 Dex 11 Con 13
>: >Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 18
>: >MV 12 SZ 6' MR None
>: >AC 10 HD 9 HP 83
>:I would change a few things here....Wis and Cha should both be 20+..according
>:to the Christian mythos .he had divine wisdom and leadership..beyond the human
>:scale. I would also bump the Con up...40 days and 40 nights wandering the
>:wilderness without food requires a pretty good Constitution... and how long did
>:he hang on the cross before he died?
Not neccessarily; he was supposed to be a human. He just got a lot of divine
intervention. Most if not all the miracles he did seem like clerical magic.
>[1] For those who don't know, cruxifiction works because the hanging
>position causes you to be unable to breathe (IIRC, you can't exhale if you
>are on the cross). By pushing yourself up, you can take a few breaths.
I knew :) There were some other neat tricks that could be done to crucified
people. One was not to use nails, but simply hang the person with ropes.
This prolonged the ordeal. (In much later times, some people were executed
by simply hanging them into a metal frame - a fate much worse than
crucifixation, since some lived for two _weeks_ or more.)
Another "funny" trick was to set up a nail under the heel of the crucified
person. Then the person had two options: either take a nail into your heel
while pushing yourself up to breathe, or suffocate.
Someone else also wrote:
>BTW Jesus is God's avatar, not a cleric of his. This is why Mary is a
>virgin, because acted directly on Jesus' count.
Hey, if Jesus was an Avatar, he was not a human. Therefore, he did not even
really die, and the whole basis of your religion is ruined :)
Nyah nyah.
Driftin J
>
>Hey, if Jesus was an Avatar, he was not a human. Therefore, he did not even
>really die, and the whole basis of your religion is ruined :)
>
>Nyah nyah.
>
Not necessarily. Remember that 3 days after his death Jesus rose and ascended
into heaven. Therefore even though he died he still lives...very Avatar like.
Kate the Short -- Spamblocked!
Sarah and Mike Strutz <str...@one.net> sat on the sofa and said:
>Hah! Made you look.
Yeah, except I almost passed this over, then decided I wanted to see the
stats, and I'm sure that there are people who REALLY want to read about
the organizational aspects (who won't read Jesus's stats and so won't
find it). Having clear and accurate headers is a plus when reading
news. :)
That said...
>Anyway, I'm kinda curious about how other DM's organize their gaming
>material. You see, it's time for Sarah's Great Tri-Annual Compleat Super
>Reorganization and Cleaning O' the House Ritual. All these stacks of
>papers, scribbled notes, NPC's on torn slips of paper, mutilated
>notebooks, and Mike's collection of ancient character sheets that have
>cat pee-pee on them* have got to go.
I pity you. Have fun!
>In a organization frenzy, I have scoured the 'Net looking for proggies
>(freeware 'cuz I'm cheap) that will help me organize all this crap. I
>have a nice collection now that will have me cleaning out my poor
>cluttered hard drive as the Great Ritual nears it's compleation**.
>WinSpell and the assorted Scribes are the spiffiest thus far. I'm about
>to snatch me up a copy of AD&D CR2 to help, but I hear it won't quite
>give me what I want as far as a spell database.
>
>How do you guys organize your material, gaming notes, ect...etc...?
For notes and stuff, I'd either have a binder for the loose stuff, with
dividers for campaigns or for stuff within a campaign (maps, npcs, list
of regular players and phone numbers, treasure tables, notes on tricky
stuff). You could get some folders, like trapper-keeper folders, to
store stuff you don't want to punch holes in (like post-it notes or
scribbles), and get a 3-hole punch for the rest of the non-notebook-
paper stuff. Voila!
For files, I think I'd try to organize it either by type or by campaign.
Like, all maps in one picture file, or everything for the sunset riders'
second campaign into undermountain in one place (map 1, map 2, npcs,
etcetera). IF you decide to reuse an npc or area map, you can just copy
it or create a linked shortcut and move that to the current folder.
>Can anyone teach me how to build a database using Windows in 10 EZ
>steps? I have MSOffice but I fear Excell's and Access's Evil Tutorials
>of Confusion.
Actually, it isn't that hard. Access is better in my mind for database
stuff, because you can have a good record of everything. You could have
a lit of everything you own bookwise, for example, like title, type
(book, screen, module), levels (low, high, player, dm), world (Mystara,
planescape), price, usefulness, where you keep it, who you've loaned it
to, TSR printing number, and the like.
If you've got access97, you can click on the title of each column and
change the name, and you can always insert columns later. Go with one
of the database wizards, like New Table, Table Wizard, (click the
personal radio buton), select Categories, and add new category names
that you'd want to track. Make a list of what fields/columns you want
first, as that makes it easier to plan.
>(can, uh, anyone who responds to this post puh-leaze change the subject
>to something else?)
Easier said than done-- that way you'd have 19 subject headers with
about 36 responses total! :)
kate.
| Kate the Short -katew @ enteract.com- http://www.enteract.com/~katew/ |
| Address is spamblocked - watch where you send replies! - ICQ# 8375030 |
| Website redone! /personal /comics /faqs /sorority /wedding /internet |
| WEDDING SUMMARY is now up! -- http://www.enteract.com/~katew/wedding/ |
Mike Harvey
> Driftin J writes
> >wilderness without food requires a pretty good Constitution... and how long did
> >he hang on the cross before he died?
>
> didn't see what was coming?
Didn't see it coming? He not only knew but chose to be executed; it was
his disciples who did not believe even when he told them. This is
absolutely essential to Christian theology.
Mike
Joseph Michael Bay
>> **only kewl people spell "Complete" as "Compleat"
>However REALLY cool people don't spell it "Kewl" :)
D00D REALLY /<3WL PPL SPELL 1T |<-RAD1K()()L!!!!!!1!!!!1
--
"Nec verbum verbo curabis reddere fidus interpres." remove address to email.
Literal, schmitteral. Stanford Department of
"Amoto quaeramus ludi seriis." Forensic Linguistics
Serious matters aside, let us turn to joking. www.stanford.edu/~jmbay
Joseph Michael Bay
>scale. I would also bump the Con up...40 days and 40 nights wandering the
>wilderness without food requires a pretty good Constitution... and how long did
>he hang on the cross before he died?
A few hours. Usually it takes a couple of days, but being stabbed (and/or
drugged, depending whom you read) will shorten that.
Sarah and Mike Strutz
Joseph Michael Bay wrote:
> P...@winwaed.demon.co.uk (PJS) writes:
>
> >> **only kewl people spell "Complete" as "Compleat"
>
> >However REALLY cool people don't spell it "Kewl" :)
>
> D00D REALLY /<3WL PPL SPELL 1T |<-RAD1K()()L!!!!!!1!!!!1
>
Dude, you are..like...my hero.
Sarah and Mike Strutz
Kate the Short -- Spamblocked! wrote:
In article <36154AE6...@one.net>,
Sarah and Mike Strutz <str...@one.net> sat on the sofa and said:>Hah! Made you look.
Yeah, except I almost passed this over, then decided I wanted to see the
stats, and I'm sure that there are people who REALLY want to read about
the organizational aspects (who won't read Jesus's stats and so won't
find it). Having clear and accurate headers is a plus when reading
news. :)That said...
You know there are all those threads with AD&D related headers but are filled with religious arguments, etc?I was going to see if I could start a thread with a goofy header but with actual AD&D stuff inside. My bad.
>Anyway, I'm kinda curious about how other DM's organize their gaming
>material. You see, it's time for Sarah's Great Tri-Annual Compleat Super
>Reorganization and Cleaning O' the House Ritual. All these stacks of
>papers, scribbled notes, NPC's on torn slips of paper, mutilated
>notebooks, and Mike's collection of ancient character sheets that have
>cat pee-pee on them* have got to go.I pity you. Have fun!
Thanks. I'll try.
>In a organization frenzy, I have scoured the 'Net looking for proggies
>(freeware 'cuz I'm cheap) that will help me organize all this crap. I
>have a nice collection now that will have me cleaning out my poor
>cluttered hard drive as the Great Ritual nears it's compleation**.
>WinSpell and the assorted Scribes are the spiffiest thus far. I'm about
>to snatch me up a copy of AD&D CR2 to help, but I hear it won't quite
>give me what I want as far as a spell database.
>
>How do you guys organize your material, gaming notes, ect...etc...?For notes and stuff, I'd either have a binder for the loose stuff, with
dividers for campaigns or for stuff within a campaign (maps, npcs, list
of regular players and phone numbers, treasure tables, notes on tricky
stuff). You could get some folders, like trapper-keeper folders, to
store stuff you don't want to punch holes in (like post-it notes or
scribbles), and get a 3-hole punch for the rest of the non-notebook-
paper stuff. Voila!For files, I think I'd try to organize it either by type or by campaign.
Like, all maps in one picture file, or everything for the sunset riders'
second campaign into undermountain in one place (map 1, map 2, npcs,
etcetera). IF you decide to reuse an npc or area map, you can just copy
it or create a linked shortcut and move that to the current folder.
It's gonna take me hours to organize my hard drive just to get it only remotely as fixed up as that.
>Can anyone teach me how to build a database using Windows in 10 EZ
>steps? I have MSOffice but I fear Excell's and Access's Evil Tutorials
>of Confusion.Actually, it isn't that hard. Access is better in my mind for database
stuff, because you can have a good record of everything. You could have
a lit of everything you own bookwise, for example, like title, type
(book, screen, module), levels (low, high, player, dm), world (Mystara,
planescape), price, usefulness, where you keep it, who you've loaned it
to, TSR printing number, and the like.If you've got access97, you can click on the title of each column and
change the name, and you can always insert columns later. Go with one
of the database wizards, like New Table, Table Wizard, (click the
personal radio buton), select Categories, and add new category names
that you'd want to track. Make a list of what fields/columns you want
first, as that makes it easier to plan.
I think I'm gonna give up on doing my own databases right now. I'll just stick to the various Scribes, Winspell, and CR2 (when I get it...I might might for the patch to come out first)
>(can, uh, anyone who responds to this post puh-leaze change the subject
>to something else?)Easier said than done-- that way you'd have 19 subject headers with
about 36 responses total! :)kate.
| Kate the Short -katew @ enteract.com- http://www.enteract.com/~katew/ |
| Address is spamblocked - watch where you send replies! - ICQ# 8375030 |
| Website redone! /personal /comics /faqs /sorority /wedding /internet |
| WEDDING SUMMARY is now up! -- http://www.enteract.com/~katew/wedding/ |
--
Sarah and Mike Strutz
Joseph Michael Bay
>Wow. This is the longest thread I ever started. And I owe it all to Jesus.
I blame Jesus for this interminable thread. Also, Jesus keeps
reposting the articles that I forge-cancelled!
PJS
Strutz <str...@one.net> wrote:
>
> *long story
> **only kewl people spell "Complete" as "Compleat"
However REALLY cool people don't spell it "Kewl" :)
---
Sig? We ain't got a sig. We don't need no stinkin' sig!
Theryn of Nowhere
Sarah and Mike Strutz wrote in message <36154AE6...@one.net>...
>Hah! Made you look.
>
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! That you did :-D
Anthony Toohey
Theryn of Nowhere
MCarrasco
>Actually, Jesus died rather quickly on the cross. Cruxifiction generally
>takes a long time. People on the cross would push themselves up with
>their legs in order to live longer[1].
Acctually if you might recall. Jesus was scourged and after his robe had a
change to bandage the wounds, the robe was torn ofdf his body again!This opened
his wounds up and made him bleed again. The number of hits from the scourge was
one less than death sentance would require. So not only did he survive an
illiegal trail at night. But he also surrvived being beat up by all of the
soldiers (not one or two but ALL), being scourged, and then being crucified!
You try that and then say Jesus didn't live very long!
Then On top of all than Jesus has to stand there as his people rejected him and
ask fot the release of a murderer!
Mr. Peabody
--------------------
After watching all three hours of the Clinton questioning, I thought to myself
" In order to hear this kind of talk, any other time, a person would have to
pay $5.49 for the first minute and $2.99 for each minuet after."
A.o.D.
Um.. did I forget anything.. oh yeah..
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There. That should cover it.
A.o.D.
etc.
Ron Poirier
>
>
I think you mean "RAD1/<3WL". You "/<3WL I(swizzle)A(/<3R I)0OI)".
- Ron ^*^
bs...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
>>wilderness without food requires a pretty good Constitution... and how long did
>>he hang on the cross before he died?
>>
>didn't see what was coming?
He did see it coming and remainded on the path that others would have run from.
Michael
bs...@freenet.toronto.on.ca
Dalaena
>> >> **only kewl people spell "Complete" as "Compleat"
>>
>> >However REALLY cool people don't spell it "Kewl" :)
>>
>> D00D REALLY /<3WL PPL SPELL 1T |<-RAD1K()()L!!!!!!1!!!!1
>
>I think you mean "RAD1/<3WL". You "/<3WL I(swizzle)A(/<3R I)0OI)".
This is scary =)
Maybe if we are lucky a PC vs. Apple debate will break out.
*praying that it doesnt*
-Aristotle (thre...@threshold-rpg.com)
======================================================================
Join the Online Gaming Fun of Threshold!
~*~ High Fantasy Multi-User Online Role Playing Game ~*~
http://www.threshold-rpg.com -or- telnet threshold-rpg.com 23
======================================================================
Rob Taylor
bs...@freenet.toronto.on.ca writes
thing to do would have been to disappear for a while, then reappear
elsewhere to continue his teachings?
--
Rob Taylor
Joseph Michael Bay
>If he saw it coming, then why did he ask "My God, My God, why have you
>forsaken me ?" Doesn't sound like the words of a guy who knew what was
>coming. In fact, it sounds a lot like someone who expected the
>opposite of what actually happened.
It's a quote from Isaiah.
Daemon
<>OK. I realise that. But how does that make him wise? Surely the wise
>thing to do would have been to disappear for a while, then reappear
>elsewhere to continue his teachings?
>--
>Rob Taylor
This way he becomes a martyr......remember it is always better to leave them
alive and in ruin than dead and a martyr, if you are going to leave anything
as a legacy you are better remembered if you die at your prime....think of
others that have died in their prime, James Dean, Marylin Monroe, Lincoln,
even James belushe, and others have become martyr or famous even more so
than when they were alive all because they died in their prime
Daemon
xx...@xxxx.com
<r...@houdini.demon.co.uk> wrote:
snip
>>>No arguments with CHA and CON, but WIS? If he was so wise how come he
>>>didn't see what was coming?
>>
>>He did see it coming and remainded on the path that others would have run from.
>>
>thing to do would have been to disappear for a while, then reappear
>elsewhere to continue his teachings?
If he saw it coming, then why did he ask "My God, My God, why have you
forsaken me ?" Doesn't sound like the words of a guy who knew what was
coming. In fact, it sounds a lot like someone who expected the
opposite of what actually happened.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
x Antispam Hint: There Are No X's In My E-Mail Address x
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Kate the Short -- Spamblocked!
xx...@xxxx.com sat on the sofa and said:
>On Sat, 3 Oct 1998 23:46:02 +0100, Rob Taylor
><r...@houdini.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>snip
>>>>No arguments with CHA and CON, but WIS? If he was so wise how come he
>>>>didn't see what was coming?
>>>
>>>He did see it coming and remainded on the path that others would have run from.
>>>
>>OK. I realise that. But how does that make him wise? Surely the wise
>>thing to do would have been to disappear for a while, then reappear
>>elsewhere to continue his teachings?
>
>If he saw it coming, then why did he ask "My God, My God, why have you
>forsaken me ?" Doesn't sound like the words of a guy who knew what was
>coming. In fact, it sounds a lot like someone who expected the
>opposite of what actually happened.
Nope! You can know what's coming, and still not be 1000% happy with it.
He knew it was coming, he agreed with it, he knew it was what he was
there to do, but I'm sure he wasn't wholly comfortable-- remember, he
was human as well as God (if you believe that, of course, and I do), and
so knew that it would hurt a hell of a lot.
Lemme try to find an AD&D example... Your Wizard or Priest may have a
clairvoyance spell, or be granted some knowledge from his god. He may
know that he's got a 99% chance of dying, but he may also know that his
actions will be necessary to aid the rest of the party in the adventure,
and that his sacrifice is the only way to allow the party to succeed.
Now, if you were playing a chaotic evil character, you'd certainly try
to weasel your way out of it. If you were a lawful good character,
however, you'd sacrifice yourself to the greater good. You can hope
that the DM would change his mind, but go into it knowing that you'd
likely be toast, but save the party and win the greater adventure for
them in the process.
Is it an easy choice to make? Heck, no. But being wise and doing the
right thing and doing the selfish thing are all, well, different things.
Kate the Short -- Spamblocked!
jm...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Michael Bay) sat on the sofa and said:
>xx...@xxxx.com writes:
>
>>If he saw it coming, then why did he ask "My God, My God, why have you
>>forsaken me ?" Doesn't sound like the words of a guy who knew what was
>>coming. In fact, it sounds a lot like someone who expected the
>>opposite of what actually happened.
>
Um, where?
It's in the gospels, specifically Matthew 27:46ish and Mark 15:34ish.
I'm not aware of any OT references.
Aristotle
>If he saw it coming, then why did he ask "My God, My God, why have you
>forsaken me ?" Doesn't sound like the words of a guy who knew what was
>coming. In fact, it sounds a lot like someone who expected the
>opposite of what actually happened.
Are we forgetting that these stories exist for the purpose of teaching a
lesson, and not for factual or historical information?
PHall
Rob Taylor wrote in message ...
>OK. I realise that. But how does that make him wise? Surely the wise
>thing to do would have been to disappear for a while, then reappear
>elsewhere to continue his teachings?
Because Jesus knew that by dying, he could save the world from sin. He was
the son of God and wanted to do what was right for the world. He set an
example. He didn't run from his Death because he knew that it was for the
good of the world.
Rob Taylor
<ph...@NOSPAMaccessus.net> writes
around to expand upon his teachings instead of leaving it to others to
interpret, and in many cases misinterpret, them the world might have
been a less fractured place today.
--
Rob Taylor
MCarrasco
>Hmmm. Thousands of Crusader victims may dispute that. If he'd stayed
>around to expand upon his teachings instead of leaving it to others to
>interpret, and in many cases misinterpret, them the world might have
>been a less fractured place today.
>--
But by not being crucified he could not be the Sacrifical Lamb and therefore
there would be no atonment of SIN.
Zachary Paul Stewart
Rob Taylor wrote:
> In article <19981002131635...@ng92.aol.com>, Driftin J
> <drif...@aol.com> writes
> >
> >>Jesus Christ® (cleric 20)
> >>
> >>Str 10 Dex 11 Con 13
> >>Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 18
> >>MV 12 SZ 6' MR None
> >>AC 10 HD 9 HP 83
> >
> >
> >I would change a few things here....Wis and Cha should both be 20+..according
> >to the Christian mythos .he had divine wisdom and leadership..beyond the human
> >scale. I would also bump the Con up...40 days and 40 nights wandering the
> >wilderness without food requires a pretty good Constitution... and how long did
> >he hang on the cross before he died?
> >
> No arguments with CHA and CON, but WIS? If he was so wise how come he
>
He did see what was coming.
He told Peter and Judas that they would betray him.
He knew it all along, but also knew that he needed to die.
--
Zachary Paul Stewart
I hear the horses' thunder down in the valley below.
I'm waiting for the angels of Avalon,
Waiting for the eastern glow.
-Led Zeppelin
remove spamdeath to reply
Zachary Paul Stewart
dfenz wrote:
> >Niilo Paasivirta wrote:
>
> Oh my god, it's the Satan page guy! All hail the "AD&D is evil" guy!
> Buddy, you RULE! Your page is awesome! It's soooo funny!
>
> BTW Jesus is God's avatar, not a cleric of his. This is why Mary is a
> virgin, because acted directly on Jesus' count.
See, that's what I don't get.
She isn't a virgin, she had other children.
I don't think she should be called The Virgin at all.
Yes, she was at Jesus' birth, but after she was married,
I doubt that she stayed one.
TymOgee
>-Craig
>[1] For those who don't know, cruxifiction works because the hanging
>position causes you to be unable to breathe (IIRC, you can't exhale if you
>are on the cross). By pushing yourself up, you can take a few breaths.
>
Geez...and all this time I'd been thinking that tetanus would have had to set
it AWFULLY quickly :)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I
suppose I can understand the statists insecurity in their power lust. It's
their disregard for the rights of the individual that passes me by.
-Tymogee
"I use the term 'liberal' in the original, nineteenth-century sense... In
current American usage it often means very much the opposite of this. It has
been part of the camouflage of leftists movements in the country, helped by the
muddle-headedness of many who believe in liberty, that 'liberal' has come to
mean the advocacy of almost every kind of government control"- Friedrich Hayek
"You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income"-Abraham
Lincoln
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
TymOgee
>D00D REALLY /<3WL PPL SPELL 1T |<-RAD1K()()L!!!!!!1!!!!1
>
....and so answers my question about people from "Ultima Online" in this
newsgroup....
Theryn of Nowhere
Zachary Paul Stewart wrote in message <36182B90...@psu.edu>...
>
>
>dfenz wrote:
>
>> >Niilo Paasivirta wrote:
>>
>> Oh my god, it's the Satan page guy! All hail the "AD&D is evil" guy!
>> Buddy, you RULE! Your page is awesome! It's soooo funny!
>>
>> BTW Jesus is God's avatar, not a cleric of his. This is why Mary is a
>> virgin, because acted directly on Jesus' count.
>
>See, that's what I don't get.
>She isn't a virgin, she had other children.
>I don't think she should be called The Virgin at all.
>Yes, she was at Jesus' birth, but after she was married,
>I doubt that she stayed one.
>
denies that Jesus had actual blood-siblings, but rather that his references
to brothers and sisters were all symbolic. The "protestant" view is to take
the biblical references at face value (imagine that). Frankly, they're
pretty clear, IMO...
Zachary Paul Stewart
Theryn of Nowhere wrote:
> Zachary Paul Stewart wrote in message <36182B90...@psu.edu>...
>
> >See, that's what I don't get.
> >She isn't a virgin, she had other children.
> >I don't think she should be called The Virgin at all.
> >Yes, she was at Jesus' birth, but after she was married,
> >I doubt that she stayed one.
> >
> Actually, that's a particularly Catholic dogma. The official position
> denies that Jesus had actual blood-siblings, but rather that his references
> to brothers and sisters were all symbolic. The "protestant" view is to take
> the biblical references at face value (imagine that). Frankly, they're
> pretty clear, IMO...
So, they claim that Paul married Mary and didn't get any?
Some how, I doubt this.
And my grandparents wonder why all of their children/garndchildren converted
away from Catholicism....
Aristotle
>
>>Hmmm. Thousands of Crusader victims may dispute that. If he'd stayed
>>around to expand upon his teachings instead of leaving it to others to
>>interpret, and in many cases misinterpret, them the world might have
>>been a less fractured place today.
>>--
>
>But by not being crucified he could not be the Sacrifical Lamb and therefore
>there would be no atonment of SIN.
This is one of the sillier teachings of christianity.
His death somehow magically forgave the sins of others? Think about that
rationally for a moment. There is no logical connection.
MCarrasco
>Actually, that's a particularly Catholic dogma. The official position
>denies that Jesus had actual blood-siblings, but rather that his references
>to brothers and sisters were all symbolic. The "protestant" view is to take
>the biblical references at face value (imagine that). Frankly, they're
>pretty clear, IMO...
Acctually as a former (born and raised) Catholic. The church belives that
Jesus' brother's and sisters were Joseph though a previous marriage. But if we
were to believe this then Jesus wouldn't have been the heir to the throne of
david through Joseph his LEGAL father. As Jesus would not have been Joseph's
LEGAL first born son. In order fro Jesus to be David's heir he would have had
to have been Joseph first born son. So is the Catholic church saying that Jesus
was not the heir to David, and therefore not the saviour. It looks that way
from my point of view! I thank God I believe the Bible and not the council of
Trent.
As for His disciple and Mary.....Jesus says that he came to FULFILL the Law.
The Law stats that the FIRST BORN CHILD, was to care for their parents in thier
old age. As fulfillment of the law, since Jesus was her first born, Jesus
commanded his desciple to care for Mary as to fulfill the Law and make sure his
Mother was cared for.
Autolycus
(Aristotle) wrote:
>In article <19981004183947...@ng88.aol.com>,
mcar...@aol.comNOSPAM (MCarrasco) wrote:
>>But by not being crucified he could not be the Sacrifical Lamb and therefore
>>there would be no atonment of SIN.
>
>This is one of the sillier teachings of christianity.
>
>His death somehow magically forgave the sins of others? Think about that
>rationally for a moment. There is no logical connection.
Hmmm? There are lots of non-magical instances where one's sacrifice pays
for someone else's transgression or something else along those lines.
E.g. a father who pays a fine for his son's drunken driving, a friend who
posts bail for someone else, (negative example) a stupid decision to make
dates 2-digit affects the whole world (except for Mac users and upgraded
Win users)...
Anyway:
I think you cannot take something which is basically founded on a premise
you cannot accept and then try to work it out selectively on premises you
do accept.
For example: in most D&D worlds, magic works and has general laws. You
cannot then say "X is supposed to be linked magically to Y? Illogical!"
unless you accept that magic exists and you know its laws.
Similarly, unless you approach Christians using theological argument, you
cannot say there is no logical connection and hope to prove it to them.
Remember that they have the premise that there are higher theological laws
('magic' to you), and you have to disprove that first if you are logical.
Or did you troll and was I stupid enough to bite?
*sigh*
Autolycus
Samryn
MCarrasco wrote in message <19981004183947...@ng88.aol.com>...
>
>>Hmmm. Thousands of Crusader victims may dispute that. If he'd stayed
>>around to expand upon his teachings instead of leaving it to others to
>>interpret, and in many cases misinterpret, them the world might have
>>been a less fractured place today.
>>--
>
therefore
>there would be no atonment of SIN.
>--------------------
Not much of a sacrifice going back up to heaven to be with pops and all.
yes I trolled and I am sorry but dont bother biting cuz I only check the
news once a week now.
SAMRYN
"Sometimes I think war is God's way of teaching us geography." --Paul
Rodriguez
Patrick M. Berry
> >He did see it coming and remainded on the path that others would have run from.
> >
> OK. I realise that. But how does that make him wise? Surely the wise
> thing to do would have been to disappear for a while, then reappear
> elsewhere to continue his teachings?
Not if being crucified was the reason he was on Earth in the first place.
Which is what some versions of the story seem to say.
Patrick M. Berry
>
> This way he becomes a martyr......remember it is always better to leave them
> alive and in ruin than dead and a martyr, if you are going to leave anything
> as a legacy you are better remembered if you die at your prime....think of
> others that have died in their prime, James Dean, Marylin Monroe, Lincoln,
> even James belushe, and others have become martyr or famous even more so
> than when they were alive all because they died in their prime
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but Jim Belushi is still alive.
Perhaps you were thinking of his brother. :)
CloudVader
Hmmm... maybe he was referring to Belushi's career...
Sorry, couldn't resist. :)
CloudVader (Cloud...@aol.com)
"The sum of the intelligence of the planet is constant; the population is
growing."
Visit http://members.aol.com/cloudvader/index.html for the biggest (almost) and
best (well, one of the best anyway) humor page on the Net!
Rich Thompson
> No arguments with CHA and CON, but WIS? If he was so wise how come he
> didn't see what was coming?
Uh, He did.
He repeatedly told his disciples that he was going to be crucified.
Richard Thompson
Department of Psychology
McGill University
1205 Dr. Penfield Ave.
Montreal, Quebec
H3A 1B1
(514) 398-7425
"If greedy wait, hot turn cold."
Rob Taylor
<ber...@aur.alcatel.com> writes
he knew he would be resurrected? Which doesn't make it very sacrificial.
After all, what did he lose?
--
Rob Taylor
Theryn of Nowhere
MCarrasco wrote in message <19981005043308...@ng37.aol.com>...
>
>>Actually, that's a particularly Catholic dogma. The official position
>>denies that Jesus had actual blood-siblings, but rather that his
references
>>to brothers and sisters were all symbolic. The "protestant" view is to
take
>>the biblical references at face value (imagine that). Frankly, they're
>>pretty clear, IMO...
>
>Acctually as a former (born and raised) Catholic. The church belives that
>Jesus' brother's and sisters were Joseph though a previous marriage. But if
we
>were to believe this then Jesus wouldn't have been the heir to the throne
of
>david through Joseph his LEGAL father. As Jesus would not have been
Joseph's
>LEGAL first born son. In order fro Jesus to be David's heir he would have
had
>to have been Joseph first born son. So is the Catholic church saying that
Jesus
>was not the heir to David, and therefore not the saviour. It looks that way
>from my point of view! I thank God I believe the Bible and not the council
of
>Trent.
I was going from old catechism memories and a few study bible notes...
regardless, the basic dogma is that there is no direct blood relation...
Bzzt...
Anthony Toohey
Theryn of Nowhere
Thank you for playing...
Theryn of Nowhere
>--------------------
>After watching all three hours of the Clinton questioning, I thought to
myself
>" In order to hear this kind of talk, any other time, a person would have
to
>pay $5.49 for the first minute and $2.99 for each minuet after."
Would that be Mozart's Minuet in G?
Ladedadedadedadedah, Ladedah, Ladedah... :-)
Sarah and Mike Strutz
troll-girl...a trollup? tee hee)
Have any of you guys ever heard of Tammie Ritchie? I don't have the URL but,
omigawd, her Perlious Times page is unbelievable. (SinisteR, you gotta check
it out). She makes Pat Robertson look like Tracy Hickman. I've considered
sending her The Game of Satan's url so she can post it on her site as a
link. (Oh, wait...it's the Love Page now, huh?). It's like a real version of
the GofS page. I was sure that Miss Ritchie's page was a joke, but it's not.
She does radio interviews and everything.
--
Sarah
The Grrl without a sig. file
Sarah and Mike Strutz
Zachary Paul Stewart
Aristotle wrote:
> In article <19981004183947...@ng88.aol.com>, mcar...@aol.comNOSPAM (MCarrasco) wrote:
> >
> >>Hmmm. Thousands of Crusader victims may dispute that. If he'd stayed
> >>around to expand upon his teachings instead of leaving it to others to
> >>interpret, and in many cases misinterpret, them the world might have
> >>been a less fractured place today.
> >>--
> >
> >But by not being crucified he could not be the Sacrifical Lamb and therefore
> >there would be no atonment of SIN.
>
> This is one of the sillier teachings of christianity.
>
> His death somehow magically forgave the sins of others? Think about that
> rationally for a moment. There is no logical connection.
>
The connection is that death and hell are the penalty for sin.
Since he never sinned, he didn't deserve to die and go to hell for three days.
At this point, I don't want to break out in any theological discussion due to heartburn....
Zachary Paul Stewart
Rob Taylor wrote:
>
> >Not if being crucified was the reason he was on Earth in the first place.
> >Which is what some versions of the story seem to say.
> >
> But if he knew that was what was going to happen, doesn't it follow that
> he knew he would be resurrected? Which doesn't make it very sacrificial.
> After all, what did he lose?
He spent three days in hell, which we are led to believe is really bad.
Todd McCall
tym...@aol.com says...
>
> >D00D REALLY /<3WL PPL SPELL 1T |<-RAD1K()()L!!!!!!1!!!!1
> >
>
> ....and so answers my question about people from "Ultima Online" in this
> newsgroup....
>
english perhaps?
Todd McCall
thre...@threshold-rpg.com says...
> In article <19981004183947...@ng88.aol.com>, mcar...@aol.comNOSPAM (MCarrasco) wrote:
> >
> >>Hmmm. Thousands of Crusader victims may dispute that. If he'd stayed
> >>around to expand upon his teachings instead of leaving it to others to
> >>interpret, and in many cases misinterpret, them the world might have
> >>been a less fractured place today.
> >>--
> >
> >But by not being crucified he could not be the Sacrifical Lamb and therefore
> >there would be no atonment of SIN.
>
> This is one of the sillier teachings of christianity.
>
> His death somehow magically forgave the sins of others? Think about that
> rationally for a moment. There is no logical connection.
>
take on all the sins of mankind thereby substituting
himself for the whole world, and breaking the chain of
original sin (this is a paraphrase...I'm no theologian,
just a believer)
2) And yes it is magical, in the sense that all divine
miracles are magical.
3) 1) It is a matter of faith.Faith is the ability to
believe, when the world says you shouldnt. Faith
requires no explanation, it is the explanation.
Michael Scott Brown
Zachary Paul Stewart <zps...@spamdeath.psu.edu> wrote:
>He spent three days in hell, which we are led to believe is really bad.
If one guy spends 3 days in hell and atones all the world's sins
up to that time (biblicaly speaking, that's 4000 years?) then
how do bible thumpers justify the idea of an eternity in hell
for _one_ person's crimes? <scratches head> Sounds like
it ought to be "if you're bad, then when you die, you go to
hell for [3 days/(4000 years * 365 days/yr * 400 million people)]
about one 4-billionth of a day" - which is much less than a
microsecond!
-Michael, reducing the wheels of eternal justice to a slap on the wrist
Chris Campbell
> 3) 1) It is a matter of faith.Faith is the ability to
>believe, when the world says you shouldnt. Faith
>requires no explanation, it is the explanation.
Something I've never understood about faith is . . . why? What you describe
above is believe without reason, and I just don't get the point. Why believe
in something if you have no reason to? How can you take a believe seriously
when you know perfectly well that it's arbitrary, and that you believe it not
because it makes sense but rather because you feel like believing it? Isn't
that like a cosmic game of craps or something?
I get the notion of believing there's *something* out there; the universe is a
big place, and it's easy to see how it'd instill a sense of wonder in people.
Believing in an afterlife I can understand for similar reasons; it really
sucks to think this is all there is, and you have enough anecdotal evidence
via past life experiences and near death experiences to at least make you
suspect that *something* might be going on. But belief in metaphysical
specifics just strikes me as extraordinary. At that point rational thought
breaks down and the whole religion thing becomes an exercise in absurdity.
--
Oh my God! They've killed Kosh! You bastards!
Chris Campbell Sank...@ix.netcom.com
Daemon
Chris Campbell wrote in message <6vcaua$7...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>...
It's more than that it is a way to give explanation to that which has no
explanation, at least at the time of the religious creation, like the
creation of the world or the creation of man. It's kinda hard to believe
that all of this was some type of accident, although I am not religious and
have no believes in god or other type of Deity, most people need to find a
some thing to explain everything in this world. The easiest way to explain
all of this is this way. If you really look at the scope of things what
really matters the most children dying and suffering of hunger, or Bill
Clinton fucking some chick while being married. I mean if people really sat
down and though of all the suffering in the world of innocent people they
couldn't really handle it, this way they can focus their mind some where
else, it's more or less your brains way of protecting you, that's why we as
humans argue about trivial things and make up beliefs to help us though this
life when nothing is truly understood and sometimes it is better left that
way, I mean Maddonas book SEX was so controversial but really nude pictures,
Oh my god the unreal consequences of seeing such a thing...oohh the bad
influence, the bad thoughts, all normal but people got all hot and bothered
only because their minds need something to distract them from the reality of
life and all that can happen.
Daemon
I came, I saw, I conquered, and to tell you the truth it
wasn't even worth it.
Syth Ohnanka
Aristotle <thre...@threshold-rpg.com> wrote in article
<6v9pfa$56i$1...@news5.ispnews.com>...
> In article <19981004183947...@ng88.aol.com>,
mcar...@aol.comNOSPAM (MCarrasco) wrote:
> >
> >>Hmmm. Thousands of Crusader victims may dispute that. If he'd stayed
> >>around to expand upon his teachings instead of leaving it to others to
> >>interpret, and in many cases misinterpret, them the world might have
> >>been a less fractured place today.
> >>--
> >
> >But by not being crucified he could not be the Sacrifical Lamb and
therefore
> >there would be no atonment of SIN.
>
> This is one of the sillier teachings of christianity.
>
> His death somehow magically forgave the sins of others? Think about that
> rationally for a moment. There is no logical connection.
Actually...the sacrifice was important, but not because of the atonement of
sin (which, like you say, is very silly) but because of the fact that
everyone loves a martyr.
If Jesus had not been crucified, the religion he preached would never have
got off the ground, it just would've faded away a few (couple hundred at
best) years after his death.
Oh...the other reason it got off the ground was the excellent communication
system in the Roman empire...but thats another story.
IT certainly didn't get off the gorund because it was the truth...
Patrick M. Berry
>
>
> Theryn of Nowhere wrote:
>
> > Actually, that's a particularly Catholic dogma. The official position
> > denies that Jesus had actual blood-siblings, but rather that his references
> > to brothers and sisters were all symbolic. The "protestant" view is to take
> > the biblical references at face value (imagine that). Frankly, they're
> > pretty clear, IMO...
>
> Some how, I doubt this.
Paul married Mary? Man, I must have dozed off in Sunday school.
I missed that part completely.
Patrick M. Berry
> In article <19981004183947...@ng88.aol.com>, mcar...@aol.comNOSPAM (MCarrasco) wrote:
> >
> >But by not being crucified he could not be the Sacrifical Lamb and therefore
> >there would be no atonment of SIN.
>
> This is one of the sillier teachings of christianity.
>
> His death somehow magically forgave the sins of others? Think about that
> rationally for a moment. There is no logical connection.
Aren't we getting a bit far from anything related to D&D? Debating
theology is fun, but we're not likely to settle any of the Big Questions
here. Rather than start a religious flamewar, why don't we just let the
thread end now? Those who really want to discuss Christian doctrine can
always bring it up in a more appropriate newsgroup.
Driftin J
This is why all rules-lawyers go to hell ;)
-Jack
Chris Campbell
>It's more than that it is a way to give explanation to that which has no
>explanation, at least at the time of the religious creation, like the
>creation of the world or the creation of man. It's kinda hard to believe
>that all of this was some type of accident,
I know that. I wasn't knocking faith in a deity, just faith in specifics that
have nothing going for them other than the say-so of other humans. Faith in a
deity or an afterlife is something one can figure out for themselves; faith in
the desires of that deity or what kinds of foods it wants us to eat is another
matter altogether.
Zachary Paul Stewart
"Patrick M. Berry" wrote:
Re, ahh...
Joseph, sorry, don't know why I said Paul.
Joseph Michael Bay
"Dude, really cool people spell it '(Kay-radicool)'!"
--
"Nec verbum verbo curabis reddere fidus interpres." remove address to email.
Literal, schmitteral. Stanford Department of
"Amoto quaeramus ludi seriis." Forensic Phrenology
Serious matters aside, let us turn to joking. www.stanford.edu/~jmbay
Joseph Michael Bay
>> So, they claim that Paul married Mary and didn't get any?
>> Some how, I doubt this.
>Paul married Mary? Man, I must have dozed off in Sunday school.
>I missed that part completely.
Yes, and then Peter joined up with them to form a folk group.
Peter and Paul also started a chocolate company
because they needed to "invest their profits".
Ted Tschopp
Kate the Short -- Spamblocked! wrote in message
<361ff20c....@news.enteract.com>...
>In article <6v6gl4$r...@epic16.Stanford.EDU>,
>jm...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Michael Bay) sat on the sofa and said:
>>xx...@xxxx.com writes:
>>
>>>If he saw it coming, then why did he ask "My God, My God, why have you
>>>forsaken me ?" Doesn't sound like the words of a guy who knew what was
>>>coming. In fact, it sounds a lot like someone who expected the
>>>opposite of what actually happened.
>>
>>It's a quote from Isaiah.
>
>Um, where?
>
>It's in the gospels, specifically Matthew 27:46ish and Mark 15:34ish.
>
>I'm not aware of any OT references.
>
Jesus is quoting from Psalm 22. In Jewish tradition, when a rabbi quotes a
verse in the Pslams, the rabbi is using a short hand to quote the whole
Psalm. So when Jesus quoted Pslam 22 you will see that by what follows what
Jesus was refering to in it's entirity. So no Jesus was not saying God you
have really left me, he is saying it only feels that way right now becuase
if you look to then end of the Psalm you will see a more positive side of
the passage.
Psalm 22:1-31 [NKJV]
To the Chief Musician. Set to 'The Deer of the Dawn.' A Psalm of David.
My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
[2] O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent.
[3] But You are holy,
Enthroned in the praises of Israel.
[4] Our fathers trusted in You;
They trusted, and You delivered them.
[5] They cried to You, and were delivered;
They trusted in You, and were not ashamed.
[6] But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and despised by the people.
[7] All those who see Me ridicule Me;
They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
[8] "He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!"
[9] But You are He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust while on My mother's breasts.
[10] I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother's womb
You have been My God.
[11] Be not far from Me,
For trouble is near;
For there is none to help.
[12] Many bulls have surrounded Me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled Me.
[13] They gape at Me with their mouths,
Like a raging and roaring lion.
[14] I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.
[15] My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.
[16] For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;
[17] I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
[18] They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.
[19] But You, O Lord, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!
[20] Deliver Me from the sword,
My precious life from the power of the dog.
[21] Save Me from the lion's mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!
You have answered Me.
[22] I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
[23] You who fear the Lord, praise Him!
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!
[24] For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the
afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from Him;
But when He cried to Him, He heard.
[25] My praise shall be of You in the great assembly;
I will pay My vows before those who fear Him.
[26] The poor shall eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the Lord.
Let your heart live forever!
[27] All the ends of the world
Shall remember and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations
Shall worship before You.
[28] For the kingdom is the Lord's,
And He rules over the nations.
[29] All the prosperous of the earth
Shall eat and worship;
All those who go down to the dust
Shall bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep himself alive.
[30] A posterity shall serve Him.
It will be recounted of the Lord to the next generation,
[31] They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will
be born,
That He has done this.
Ted Tschopp
Syth Ohnanka
Why did anyone even bother with the Stats. of Jesus Christ?
I mean...new Roleplaying NPC's/plots should really be original fiction made
from recent facts/events.
Not recent copies ancient fiction formed from ancient events...
Actually, the bible is a good read, if only for some of the cool quotes...
Mike the irreverant Scottish loon
Michael Scott Brown
-Michael
Theryn of Nowhere
Michael Scott Brown wrote in message <6ve8jl$nkt$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>...
> Let's keep the scripture to a minimum, shall we?
>
>-Michael
Heh, ...
Although someone DID ask the question :-)
TymOgee
>He spent three days in hell, which we are led to believe is really bad.
>Zachary Paul Stewart
I have to wonder how Jesus was recieved by his fellow inmates during the
harrowing of hell
"3 freakin' days??? I could do two days an' a wakeup standin' on my head.
You t'ink YOUSE have it bad!??!?!"
James Fassler
> Jesus ChristŽ (cleric 20)
> Str 10 Dex 11 Con 13
> Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 18
> MV 12 SZ 6' MR None
> AC 10 HD 9 HP 83
Then according to Legends & Lore, Odysseus could whoop Jesus' ass.
Odysseus
Fighter 13, Thief 9
STR 18/00 INT 18
DEX 16 WIS 10
CON 17 CHA 18
A.C. 2
MR nil
MV 12
HP 83
AL CG
THAC0 5
#att 2
Dmg 1d8 + 6
Give me that old time religion.
Staffan Johansson
> Give me that old time religion.
We will go to worship Zeus
Though his morals are quite loose
He gave Leda quite a goose
And he's good enough for me!
Give me that old time religion
Give me that old time religion
Give me that old time religion
It's good enough for me!
Good old Thor's the god of thunder
Really helps us get our plunder
Tho his head's still truly dunder
He is good enough for me!
Give me that old time religion
Give me that old time religion
Give me that old time religion
It's good enough for me!
(Sorry, I had to...)
--
Staffan Johansson (d9...@efd.lth.se)
Drive defensively. Buy a tank.
Mark Horning
Staffan Johansson <d9...@efd.lth.se> wrote:
>James Fassler wrote:
>> Give me that old time religion.
>
> We will go to worship Zeus
> Though his morals are quite loose
> He gave Leda quite a goose
> And he's good enough for me!
>
>Give me that old time religion
>Give me that old time religion
>Give me that old time religion
>It's good enough for me!
>
> Good old Thor's the god of thunder
> Really helps us get our plunder
> Tho his head's still truly dunder
> He is good enough for me!
>
>Give me that old time religion
>Give me that old time religion
>Give me that old time religion
>It's good enough for me!
We shall all go worship Loki,
He's the old Norse god of Chaos,
That's why this verse dosn't scan or Ryme
But it's good enough for me.
Give me that old time religion
Give me that old time religion
Give me that old time religion
It's good enough for me!
Mark E. Horning "You can not enslave a free man. The most
Physicist you can do is kill him."
Phoenix AZ --Robert A. Heinlein-- (Free Men)
Syth Ohnanka
> > Jesus ChristŽ (cleric 20)
> > Str 10 Dex 11 Con 13
> > Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 18
> > MV 12 SZ 6' MR None
> > AC 10 HD 9 HP 83
hmm...
I very much doubt Jesus was a 20th Level Cleric.
He simply didn't have that many powers. His major ones would be:
Create food/water
Heal
Cure disease
Probably a couple more...it certainly wouldn't amount to too high a level.
plus I doubt he would've had such high HP... but the Con. makes sense.
I'm also glad you put the right inteligence...he wasnt particularly smart.
I would've given him only 16 Wiz though...
Niilo Paasivirta
>> Jesus ChristŽ (cleric 20)
>Then according to Legends & Lore, Odysseus could whoop Jesus' ass.
>Odysseus
>Fighter 13, Thief 9
But note that JesusŽ is a 20th level cleric, which gives some really
powerful spells...(can't remember any now, though, haven't played
AD&D for a long time :)
--
<a href="http://www.jyu.fi/%7Enp/index.html"> Niilo Paasivirta </a>
Todd O. Howard
>> > Jesus Christ (cleric 20)
>> > Str 10 Dex 11 Con 13
>> > Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 18
>> > MV 12 SZ 6' MR None
>> > AC 10 HD 9 HP 83
>hmm...
>I very much doubt Jesus was a 20th Level Cleric.
>He simply didn't have that many powers. His major ones would be:
>Create food/water
>Heal
>Cure disease
Ok, add to that (at least) Raise Dead (possibly Resurection--remember
Lazarus?), and you've got a 14th level priest type. I'd say that it would
have to be of sufficient level to cast Raise Dead (9th?), but not heal,
since other spells can essentially duplicate the effects of heal
(Neutralize Poison, Cure Disease, Cure (whatever kinds of) Wounds). One
could argue that he'd need Atonement. A good lower bound is 9th level
though.
>Probably a couple more...it certainly wouldn't amount to too high a level.
>plus I doubt he would've had such high HP... but the Con. makes sense.
>I'm also glad you put the right inteligence...he wasnt particularly smart.
>I would've given him only 16 Wiz though...
That he could outsmart the educated men of his day makes no difference I
guess, if the pharisees/saducees were dumber than IQ 10 (unlikely). More
likely he'd have an IQ of 14 or 15. The educated men of his time would be
around the 12-14 range. Even when he was a youth (12 years) the priests
at the temple were astounded by his knowledge. From this we can assume
that he was quite bright. Along the same lines I'd argue that it would
take exceptional willpower (wisdom) to go through with the whole
crucifixtion voluntarily, so 18 wisdom isn't out of line at all there.
A 19 might even be appropriate.
Strength would likely be at least 11-13 (possibly higher), since he was a
carpenter for 10-15 years before he began his ministry, and you wouldn't
think of most carpenters (of the day) being of average strength, but
probably slightly above average. The gospels record no "feats of
strength", but silence on that issue is hardly suprising. Strength could
therefore be as high as 18, although there's no reason to use anything
beyond the 11-13 range IMO.
Dexterity of average value is in line. Probably wouldn't be too clumsy,
so 10-12 is a good range.
Constitution would be less than 15, perhaps even as low as 8, given that
he didn't last on the cross terribly long. On the other hand, he did go
40 days and nights w/o eating and then faced temptation, so you could make
a good argument (based on that alone) for a 14 con.
Charisma would be at least 14, or higher, depending on what the GM judges
are the effects of a man commonly performing miracles in a time when they
were hardly common. In a heavy magic campaign I'd go with an 18, low to
no magic and it can be as low as 14 or 15, and reputation takes care of
the rest.
Magic resistance wouldn't be needing in a low-to-no magic campaign, in a
high magic campaign you'd be justified in assigning some (non trivial)
amount, depending on the magical prowess of his enemies, and their
political likelyhood of moving against him "openly" with their magic.
This leads to the following (using "low magic campaign" values)
Priest, level 10
Str 13 Dex 11 Con 14
Int 14 Wis 18 Cha 14
MV 12 SZ 6' MR None
AC 10 HD 9 HP 40
Alternatively, in "high magic" settings, you'd use something like this:
Priest, level 13
Str 13 Dex 11 Con 14
Int 15 Wis 19 Cha 18
MV 12 SZ 6' MR 25% (or as high as 60%)
AC 10 HD 9 HP 40
Alternatively, you could make MR 0% normally, and give a special
ability: "always makes saving throw).
That's much better.
Todd
--
"I find your lack of faith disturbing." Darth Vader [SW:ANH]
Todd Howard (t...@clark.net)
Mark Horning
Todd O. Howard <t...@shell.clark.net> wrote:
>
>Charisma would be at least 14, or higher, depending on what the GM judges
>are the effects of a man commonly performing miracles in a time when they
>were hardly common. In a heavy magic campaign I'd go with an 18, low to
>no magic and it can be as low as 14 or 15, and reputation takes care of
>the rest.
>
gives you a max of 10 henchmen, 18 fifteen.
Mark E. Horning, Physics Whatsoever, for any cause,
mhor...@netcom.com Seeketh to take or give,
47724 N 31st AVE Power above or beyond the Laws,
New River AZ 85027 Suffer it not to live! --Kipling--
Zachary Paul Stewart
Syth Ohnanka wrote:
>
> hmm...
> I very much doubt Jesus was a 20th Level Cleric.
> He simply didn't have that many powers. His major ones would be:
> Create food/water
> Heal
> Cure disease
Teleport at will
Walk On Water
Raise Dead
Raise Self
Regenerate
Detect Lie
Predict Future
looks like a pretty good list to me
--
Zachary Paul Stewart
I hear the horses' thunder down in the valley below.
Patrick M. Berry
> >
> > Jesus ChristŽ (cleric 20)
> > Str 10 Dex 11 Con 13
> > Int 10 Wis 18 Cha 18
> > MV 12 SZ 6' MR None
> > AC 10 HD 9 HP 83
>
Probably, if he really felt moved to do so. As depicted in the Gospels,
Jesus isn't exactly someone you would cast Arnold Schwarzenegger to play.
He's not on Earth to kick butt, after all, but to teach and enlighten.
The one time he resorted to violence (when he drove the moneychangers out
of the Temple), it wasn't his size or strength that carried the day, but
the force of his righteous indignation.
As depicted Homer, Odysseus isn't a violent man by nature, either. He
always preferred to think his way out of a situation rather than fight.
When necessary (as during the Trojan War), he was a valiant fighter, but
he saw violence as a last resort.
I can't imagine why Odysseus would ever attack Jesus, or vice versa.
Arian Hokin
> inadvertent anachronism, either forward or backward; all
> instances of such are regretted by management.
Zachary Paul Stewart wrote:
> Theryn of Nowhere wrote:
>
> > Zachary Paul Stewart wrote in message <36182B90...@psu.edu>...
> >
> > >See, that's what I don't get.
> > >She isn't a virgin, she had other children.
> > >I don't think she should be called The Virgin at all.
> > >Yes, she was at Jesus' birth, but after she was married,
> > >I doubt that she stayed one.
> > >
> > Actually, that's a particularly Catholic dogma. The official position
> > denies that Jesus had actual blood-siblings, but rather that his references
> > to brothers and sisters were all symbolic. The "protestant" view is to take
> > the biblical references at face value (imagine that). Frankly, they're
> > pretty clear, IMO...
>
> So, they claim that Paul married Mary and didn't get any?
> Some how, I doubt this.
> And my grandparents wonder why all of their children/grandchildren converted
> away from Catholicism....
Joseph is the man you mean, and yes, that's exactly what they claim. Bit
unfair, huh? But another explanation of the brothers and sisters is that
Joseph was an old man and a widower when he married Mary, and that these
were his children from his first marriage, and therefore Jesus'
step-siblings. Maybe they reckon he was too old to be keen on it by the
time he married Mary.
Arian
Arian Hokin
> inadvertent anachronism, either forward or backward; all
> instances of such are regretted by management.
Rob Taylor wrote:
> In article <6vas7n$h9q$6...@aurwww.aur.alcatel.com>, Patrick M. Berry
> <ber...@aur.alcatel.com> writes
> >In article <vontDCAq...@houdini.demon.co.uk>, Rob Taylor
> ><r...@houdini.demon.co.uk> writes:
> >
> >> >He did see it coming and remainded on the path that others would have run
> >from.
> >> >
> >> OK. I realise that. But how does that make him wise? Surely the wise
> >> thing to do would have been to disappear for a while, then reappear
> >> elsewhere to continue his teachings?
> >
> >Not if being crucified was the reason he was on Earth in the first place.
> >Which is what some versions of the story seem to say.
> >
> But if he knew that was what was going to happen, doesn't it follow that
> he knew he would be resurrected? Which doesn't make it very sacrificial.
> After all, what did he lose?
>
Well, he did *die*, and crucifixion is a pretty painful way to go. Would
you actually be willing to undergo a painful death because you knew
you'd be able to come back? Doesn't seem like a big enough incentive to
me.
Arian
Arian Hokin
> inadvertent anachronism, either forward or backward; all
> instances of such are regretted by management.
Kate the Short -- Spamblocked! wrote:
> In article <6v6gl4$r...@epic16.Stanford.EDU>,
> jm...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Joseph Michael Bay) sat on the sofa and said:
> >xx...@xxxx.com writes:
> >
> >>If he saw it coming, then why did he ask "My God, My God, why have you
> >>forsaken me ?" Doesn't sound like the words of a guy who knew what was
> >>coming. In fact, it sounds a lot like someone who expected the
> >>opposite of what actually happened.
> >
> >It's a quote from Isaiah.
>
> Um, where?
>
> It's in the gospels, specifically Matthew 27:46ish and Mark 15:34ish.
>
> I'm not aware of any OT references.
>
Psalm 22; some of the other presumed prophecies about his life and death
can be found there too, including the "casting lots for my clothing"
reference. It's not in Isaiah, AFAIK.
Arian
Chris Campbell
<6vas7n$h9q$6...@aurwww.aur.alcatel.com> <qC7MJBAX...@houdini.demon.co.uk>, Arian Hokin <ar...@mail2.northnet.com.au> wrote:
>Well, he did *die*, and crucifixion is a pretty painful way to go. Would
>you actually be willing to undergo a painful death because you knew
>you'd be able to come back? Doesn't seem like a big enough incentive to
>me.
Oh, come on. Lots of people would be perfectly willing to undergo all that if
they knew it would save the human race and that they'd eventually come back.
After only three days, no less. Hell, I'd do it if I knew God existed and he
told me this was a necessary thing and that I'd bounce back in a few days.
Harsh way to spend a weekend, but no one ever said saving the world was gonna
be easy. <Shrug>
Rob Taylor
<zps...@psu.edu> writes
>
>
>Rob Taylor wrote:
>
>>
>> >Not if being crucified was the reason he was on Earth in the first place.
>> >Which is what some versions of the story seem to say.
>> >
>> But if he knew that was what was going to happen, doesn't it follow that
>> he knew he would be resurrected? Which doesn't make it very sacrificial.
>> After all, what did he lose?
>
the saying goes "The history books are all written by the victors". I
haven't seen the latest "Come to Sunny Hell" tour brochures, so who
knows what its like?
--
Rob Taylor
Rob Taylor
<mik...@euler.Berkeley.EDU> writes
>In article <36198532...@psu.edu>,
>Zachary Paul Stewart <zps...@spamdeath.psu.edu> wrote:
>>He spent three days in hell, which we are led to believe is really bad.
>
> up to that time (biblicaly speaking, that's 4000 years?) then
> how do bible thumpers justify the idea of an eternity in hell
> for _one_ person's crimes? <scratches head> Sounds like
> it ought to be "if you're bad, then when you die, you go to
> hell for [3 days/(4000 years * 365 days/yr * 400 million people)]
> about one 4-billionth of a day" - which is much less than a
> microsecond!
>
>
>-Michael, reducing the wheels of eternal justice to a slap on the wrist
>
on your retinas?
--
Rob Taylor
Rob Taylor
<ar...@mail2.northnet.com.au> writes
>Rob Taylor wrote:
>> But if he knew that was what was going to happen, doesn't it follow that
>> he knew he would be resurrected? Which doesn't make it very sacrificial.
>> After all, what did he lose?
>>
>
>you actually be willing to undergo a painful death because you knew
>you'd be able to come back? Doesn't seem like a big enough incentive to
>me.
>
it doesn't look like a barrel of laughs.
As for enduring death, painful or otherwise, if I knew I'd come back,
then why not? I endure working because I know I get a pay-packet at the
end of the week. I endure English winters because I know there's a
summer to follow. What's the difference?
--
Rob Taylor
Michael Scott Brown
Rob Taylor <r...@houdini.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>A microsecond eh? Would you even have time to register an image of Hell
>on your retinas?
Nope. Our brains have a 1/30th of a second framerate.
Perhaps they give out a T-shirt or something?
-Michael
Rob Taylor
<mik...@euler.Berkeley.EDU> writes
"I went to Hell and all I can remember about it is this lousy T-short"
--
Rob Taylor
Rich Thompson
going to make mincemeat of a Priest20. At least I don't see how they'd do
so easily.
Richard Thompson
Department of Psychology
McGill University
1205 Dr. Penfield Ave.
Montreal, Quebec
H3A 1B1
(514) 398-7425
"If greedy wait, hot turn cold."
Tom
Niilo Paasivirta
>Did someone post stats for Jesus? If so, can you repost them?
I did, but instead of posting it all the time, I'll make a WWW page.
Done. There's the "whole" Christian Mythos now. It is just a bad torso.
I never developed it any further.
<A href="http://www.jyu.fi/~np/rpg/misc/ChristianMythos.html">
The Christian MythosŽ for AD&DŽ </A>
It is very unlikely that I will finish that project.
dfenz
>Did someone post stats for Jesus? If so, can you repost them?
100th level god
All stats 25
AC -10
THAC0 -10
Can cast all spells and is immune to all harmful effects at 200th level
get a life buddy.