3.5E Sneak Attack vs Undead
Harold Groot
attacks against undead (and maybe constructs). You only got half the
normal number of bonus hit dice, but I don't think it was limited in
use.
DEATHSTRIKE BRACERS let you do full damage, but you're limited to
3/day. I think there's a magic spell that restores some semblance of
life to undead, but that's obviously limited in use as well.
It would be easier to search for if I could remember what type of
thing it was. Was it a Feat? A Class Feature? A Magic Item? An
Alternative Class Feat/Substitution Level? Something Campaign
Specific? (If the latter, probably Forgetten Realms.)
Can anyone help me out here?
WDS
There is a level 1 Cleric spell called Grave Strike which allows you
to Sneak Attack undead.
There is a feat from Complete Adventurer called Razing Strike.
Both are described in various on-line references.
Harold Groot
>On Feb 25, 8:52=A0pm, ques...@infionline.net (Harold Groot) wrote:
>> I seem to recall there was something that would let rogues make sneak
>> attacks against undead (and maybe constructs). You only got half the
>> normal number of bonus hit dice, but I don't think it was limited in
>> use.
>>
>> DEATHSTRIKE BRACERS let you do full damage, but you're limited to
>> 3/day. A0I think there's a magic spell that restores some semblance of
>> life to undead, but that's obviously limited in use as well.
>>
>> It would be easier to search for if I could remember what type of
>> thing it was. Was it a Feat? A Class Feature? A Magic Item? An
>> Alternative Class Feat/Substitution Level? =A0Something Campaign
>> Specific? (If the latter, probably Forgetten Realms.)
>>
>> Can anyone help me out here?
>There is a level 1 Cleric spell called Grave Strike which allows you
>to Sneak Attack undead.
>
>There is a feat from Complete Adventurer called Razing Strike.
>
>Both are described in various on-line references.
Thanks for the response, but I'm afraid neither of these is what I'm
half-remembering.
GRAVE STRIKE is the spell I was thinking of - but of course the number
of spells per day a rogue has tends to be limited <g>.
And RAZING STRIKE requires the expenditure of a spell as well.
I'm still thinking there was something out there that allowed many
(unlimited?) sneak attack attempts per day on undead and/or contructs,
but at only half the normal sneak attack bonus. This is for a
non-spellcaster PC.
I'll start checking my Forgotten Realms books. I don't think it was
Eberron, and if it's in a non-campaign specific book I must have gone
right past it.
Mark Blunden
news:49a5ff01...@news.west.earthlink.net...
As I recall, there's a weapon crystal from Magic Item Compendium which does
the trick, though I don't remember its name.
--
Mark
Harold Groot
OK, thanks. I can't grab that one until tomorrow (I loaned it out).
But that really narrows it down. :)
Darin McBride
Greater TrueDeath Crystal. Which, of course, means your weapon needs to
have a full +3 enhancement bonus to be able to use it.
My rogue just took a level in Favored Soul (Com Div) to get Grave Strike.
Combined with TWF, Improved TWF, two swords with Deadly Precision, and two
attacks per round, and a flanking position, that's potentially 28d6 of stabby
goodness in a round against undead. Not including the weapons themselves
(which would only be 1d4+1 per attack for a small shortsword +1). That, and
Favored Soul has all three saves as good saves, which is helpful for a
rogue.
Ubiquitous
wrote:
>I seem to recall there was something that would let rogues make sneak
>attacks against undead (and maybe constructs). You only got half the
>normal number of bonus hit dice, but I don't think it was limited in
>use.
There's a feat in the Complete Adventurer that allows sneak attacks against
other things, but I seem to recall something in Libris Mortis as well...
--
It is simply breathtaking to watch the glee and abandon with which
the liberal media and the Angry Left have been attempting to turn
our military victory in Iraq into a second Vietnam quagmire. Too bad
for them, it's failing.
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
> *From:* Ubiquitous <web...@polaris.net>
> *Date:* Thu, 26 Feb 2009 5:39:04 -0500
> There's a feat in the Complete Adventurer that allows sneak attacks
> against
> other things, but I seem to recall something in Libris Mortis as
> well...
I have checked Libris Mortis - nothing useful apart from spells like Grave Strike
The Magic Item Compendium has the weapon crystal of Greather Truedeath which allows
sneak attack and crits against undead. It's on page 66.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ps/20070209a
Truedeath Crystal
Price (Item Level): 1,000 gp (4th) (least); 5,000 gp (9th) (lesser); 10,000 gp
(12th) (greater)
Body Slot: -- (weapon crystal)
Caster Level: 5th
Aura: Faint; (DC 17) evocation
Activation: --
Weight: --
This amethyst is carved in the shape of a humanoid skull.
Clerics craft truedeath crystals to aid themselves and others in sending undead to
their final rest.
Least: A weapon with this crystal attached deals an extra 1d6 points of damage to
undead.
Lesser: As the least crystal, and the weapon also functions as a ghost touch weapon
(DMG 224).
Greater: As the lesser crystal, and the weapon can deliver sneak attacks and
critical hits against undead as if they were living creatures.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, consecrate.
Cost to Create: 500 gp, 40 XP, 1 day (least); 2,500 gp, 200 XP, 5 days (lesser);
5,000 gp, 400 XP, 10 days (greater)
Truedeath crystals are valuable to characters at all levels of play. At low levels,
the least truedeath crystal provides a much needed damage bonus against undead
menaces. At medium levels, the lesser version of the crystal can be added to a
favorite magic weapon when incorporeal undead are encountered. For high-level
rogues, ninjas, scouts and other characters whose worst nightmares include their
inability to combat undead, the greater crystal is a tremendous boon. It allows
these characters to harm undead with sneak attacks, sudden strikes, skirmishes--and
of course critical hits!
Cheers
JOanna
Harold Groot
>Cheers
>JOanna
Being able to do full damage instead of the half damage I was thinking
of sounds nice, but the cost (both for the crystals and for the +3
weapon to put them on) isn't going to fit in to this character's
budget, alas.
I found the item I had been thinking of, though. It is an Alternative
Class Feature for Rogues called Penetrating Strike, given in
Dungeonscape (p.13). You can take it at Rogue 3. You give up Trap
Sense to get it.
"Whenever you flank a creature that is immune to extra damage from
Sneak Attacks, you still deal extra damage equal to half your normal
sneak attack dice. This benefit does not apply to creatures that
cannot be flanked, nor against other foes that are otherwise denied
their Dexterity Bonus to AC or flat-footed but not flanked."
Hmmmm... My Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5 wouldn't be
getting quite what I was hoping for here. His next level could be
Rogue 3 and take this, but he's set up to do well in solo action (he
scouts ahead a lot) so he's set up to get a lot of Sneak Attacks via
methods that don't involve flanking. As an IB5 he gets Bluff as a
Free Action once per round, it won't work on those. He also has the
Telling Blow feat (PH2) which gives him sneak attack damage when he
scores a crit (and with Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, he has a lot of
chances for that). This wouldn't apply to those either.
Still, getting half damage when flanking is a lot better than not
getting it at all. He has the Daring Outlaw feat so the Rogue and
Swashbuckler levels stack. He gets 3d6 from (R+Sw)5 and another 3d6
from IB5 for 6d6 total, so half damage would be 3d6, or around +10 or
+11 points on average. It's not "the big hurt" that 6d6 is at +21,
but neither is it the "almost helpless vs Undead and Constructs" that
many characters based on sneak attack seem to be. So long as he
doesn't try to fight them alone, of course....
Zephyros
Careful there -- you don't get half damage, you get "extra damage
equal to half your normal sneak attack dice." That's +3, not +3d6.
Harold Groot
<matt....@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 26, 11:47=A0pm, ques...@infionline.net (Harold Groot) wrote:
>> Being able to do full damage instead of the half damage I was thinking
>> of sounds nice, but the cost (both for the crystals and for the +3
>> weapon to put them on) isn't going to fit in to this character's
>> budget, alas.
>>
>> I found the item I had been thinking of, though. =A0It is an Alternative
>> Class Feature for Rogues called Penetrating Strike, given in
>> Dungeonscape (p.13). You can take it at Rogue 3. =A0You give up Trap
>> Sense to get it.
>>
>> "Whenever you flank a creature that is immune to extra damage from
>> Sneak Attacks, you still deal extra damage equal to half your normal
>> sneak attack dice. =A0This benefit does not apply to creatures that
>> cannot be flanked, nor against other foes that are otherwise denied
>> their Dexterity Bonus to AC or flat-footed but not flanked."
>>
>> Hmmmm... =A0My Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5 wouldn't be
>> getting quite what I was hoping for here. =A0His next level could be
>> Rogue 3 and take this, but he's set up to do well in solo action (he
>> scouts ahead a lot) so he's set up to get a lot of Sneak Attacks via
>> methods that don't involve flanking. =A0As an IB5 he gets Bluff as a
>> Free Action once per round, it won't work on those. =A0He also has the
>> Telling Blow feat (PH2) which gives him sneak attack damage when he
>> scores a crit (and with Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, he has a lot of
>> chances for that). =A0This wouldn't apply to those either.
>>
>> Still, getting half damage when flanking is a lot better than not
>> getting it at all. He has the Daring Outlaw feat so the Rogue and
>> Swashbuckler levels stack. He gets 3d6 from (R+Sw)5 and another 3d6
>> from IB5 for 6d6 total, so half damage would be 3d6, or around +10 or
>> +11 points on average. It's not "the big hurt" that 6d6 is at +21,
>> but neither is it the "almost helpless vs Undead and Constructs" that
>> many characters based on sneak attack seem to be. So long as he
>> doesn't try to fight them alone, of course....
>Careful there -- you don't get half damage, you get "extra damage
>equal to half your normal sneak attack dice." That's +3, not +3d6.
Hmmmm... even looking at it a second time, that's not how I would
interpret that sentence. Can you provide anything that supports your
position - any other place they use similar wording where they show
that meaning, or anything in a FAQ, Errata or such?
Anyone else can to enter an opinion?
Harold Groot
<matt....@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Feb 26, 11:47=A0pm, ques...@infionline.net (Harold Groot) wrote:
>> Being able to do full damage instead of the half damage I was thinking
>> of sounds nice, but the cost (both for the crystals and for the +3
>> weapon to put them on) isn't going to fit in to this character's
>> budget, alas.
>>
>> I found the item I had been thinking of, though. =A0It is an Alternative
>> Class Feature for Rogues called Penetrating Strike, given in
>> Dungeonscape (p.13). You can take it at Rogue 3. =A0You give up Trap
>> Sense to get it.
>>
>> "Whenever you flank a creature that is immune to extra damage from
>> Sneak Attacks, you still deal extra damage equal to half your normal
>> sneak attack dice. =A0This benefit does not apply to creatures that
>> cannot be flanked, nor against other foes that are otherwise denied
>> their Dexterity Bonus to AC or flat-footed but not flanked."
>>
>> Hmmmm... =A0My Rogue 2/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5 wouldn't be
>> getting quite what I was hoping for here. =A0His next level could be
>> Rogue 3 and take this, but he's set up to do well in solo action (he
>> scouts ahead a lot) so he's set up to get a lot of Sneak Attacks via
>> methods that don't involve flanking. =A0As an IB5 he gets Bluff as a
>> Free Action once per round, it won't work on those. =A0He also has the
>> Telling Blow feat (PH2) which gives him sneak attack damage when he
>> scores a crit (and with Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, he has a lot of
>> chances for that). =A0This wouldn't apply to those either.
>>
>> Still, getting half damage when flanking is a lot better than not
>> getting it at all. =A0He has the Daring Outlaw feat so the Rogue and
>> Swashbuckler levels stack. =A0He gets 3d6 from (R+Sw)5 and another 3d6
>> from IB5 for 6d6 total, so half damage would be 3d6, or around +10 or
>> +11 points on average. =A0It's not "the big hurt" that 6d6 is at +21,
>> but neither is it the "almost helpless vs Undead and Constructs" that
>> many characters based on sneak attack seem to be. So long as he
>> doesn't try to fight them alone, of course....
>Careful there -- you don't get half damage, you get "extra damage
>equal to half your normal sneak attack dice." That's +3, not +3d6.
I did a web search on Penetrating Strike and checked 10 places that
came up in discussions. Every one of them was using it in the "Half
your normal bonus hit dice of damage" sense, not the "one point damage
per two hit dice of normal bonus damage" sense.
As a comparison, there's also the Death's Ruin Alternative Class
Feature in Complete Champion (p.51). It only affects undead, but it
allows all sorts of sneak attacks, not just ones from flanking. The
wording there is
"Benefit: You can make sneak attacks against undead creatures.
However, you roll only one-half your normal sneak attack dice (rounded
down) when determining bonus damage for such attacks. This is a
supernatural ability."
(The trade is the same - at 3rd level, instead of Trap Sense.)
So I'm sticking with the "+3d6" interpretation (though my DM will have
the final word in his campaign, of course).
tussock
> Zephyros wrote:
>> Harold Groot wrote:
>>> "Whenever you flank a creature that is immune to extra damage from
>>> Sneak Attacks, you still deal extra damage equal to half your normal
>>> sneak attack dice. =A0This benefit does not apply to creatures that
>>> cannot be flanked, nor against other foes that are otherwise denied
>>> their Dexterity Bonus to AC or flat-footed but not flanked."
>>Careful there -- you don't get half damage, you get "extra damage equal
>>to half your normal sneak attack dice." That's +3, not +3d6.
>
> Hmmmm [...]
> Anyone else can to enter an opinion?
It says equal to "half your normal sneak attack dice". Half of 6d6 is
3d6, and making damage equal to 3d6 is easiest done with three six sided
dice. They're saying "sneak attack dice" rather than something else
because they want to be clear exactly what you're getting half of (so you
don't add half of a whole bunch of other stuff).
Also, just ask the DM to let you do full sneak attack on undead and
constructs as a house rule, you might just get lucky.
--
tussock