Campaign Cartographer -- Alternatives?
Fergus Gibson
I need a mapping program. I've evaluated Campaign Cartographer;
despite it's terrible, awkward interface, it's good software. My only
enduring problem with CC is its price. I happen to feel it's too
expensive; moreover, with the release of a Win95 version near but still
too far away, I expect that I would be hit by the as yet undetermined
upgrade fee on top of the cost of purchasing the current DOS version.
Is there an alternative to CC? I doubt it because I've heard of only
one other mapping program -- that provided with TSR's Core Rules CD.
I've never used TSR's mapping software, but I've also never heard an
encouraging word about it. I'll buy CC if I have to, but I'd prefer to
purchase something that has a price I consider more reasonable. Any
ideas?
--
Fergus Gibson, JAC Victoria President
http://www.islandnet.com/~drtongue/jac.html
Keith Davies
On Sat, 31 May 1997 01:27:20 -0700, Fergus Gibson <fe...@islandnet.com>
wrote:
General Broadcast:
I'm in the process of designing a cartography program for gaming. I
have some ideas of what I want in it, but I could use some more input.
Comments, suggestions, and questions are welcome.
Keith
-- [mailed and posted]
Thomas L Gardner
Well Fergus, the only good mapping software I have seen is a pencil and
paper. for world maps. For dungeon maps however I use Microsoft Excel and
set all the cells until they look like squares. Then I use different
border colors.
I've tried the Map Maker software on the Core Rules CD-ROM, but it's not
all that good.
Hope this helps.
Tom
--
Warduke
Knight of Dragon-web
http://members.aol.com/nitewraith/Default.htm
Led Mirage
In article <3394b4e7...@news.netcom.ca>,
Keith Davies <kjda...@netcom.ca> wrote:
>
>I'm in the process of designing a cartography program for gaming. I
>have some ideas of what I want in it, but I could use some more input.
>Comments, suggestions, and questions are welcome.
>
a mapmaker that's run from Win 95, though. CC is way too expensive for me
considering that I only need the medium level (streets and larger areas)
and the dungeon level mapmakers. But I think, definitely, a mapmaker
should be scalable such that I can make world/continent maps, city/street
maps and dungeon/battle arena maps. Option for freehand drawing is a
must, but CAD style drawing should be the basic. A huge library of
symbols is also a must as well as the option for the user to make their
own and able to import symbols from other CAD programmes, like autocad
and such. 3D view is nice, but not neccessary.
Fergus Gibson
In article <01bc6e2c$31029340$a803aace@thomasga>,
Nitew...@email.msn.com says...
> Well Fergus, the only good mapping software I have seen is a pencil and
> paper. for world maps.
I toyed with going that route, but I found a few problems with
hand drawn maps. First, I have no talent for the visual arts and the
spirit of a perfectionist. I simply wasn't satisfied with the map I
drew.
Second, it is difficult to model changes on a paper map. What
happens if you want to have political boundaries represented but the
boundaries need to be changed at a later date? I tried using transparent
overlays, but I am not pleased with the thickness of even "superfine"
transparency felt pens.
Third, I need to be able to change scales. Sometimes I want a
large-scale map and other times I require a small-scale map. This is not
practically done with a drawn map.
> Hope this helps.
Thanks for your comments, Tom. I appreciate your response.
E. Filson
lmi...@interlog.com (Led Mirage) writes:
>In article <3394b4e7...@news.netcom.ca>,
>Keith Davies <kjda...@netcom.ca> wrote:
>>
>>I'm in the process of designing a cartography program for gaming. I
>>have some ideas of what I want in it, but I could use some more input.
>>Comments, suggestions, and questions are welcome.
>>
I'm going to be purchasing a program called "Terralogicus" shortly. The
company calls it a "simulator" as opposed to a "map maker", but I suspect
that the differences are positive. For example, you place a forest at
location y and zoom in on it... you might find a meadow on a hill. If you
don't want it there, you can remove it, but it does make for detail
galore.
dek
Fergus Gibson
M13MARTIN wrote:
>
> If you lookin Dragon Mag you will see adverts for the Campaign
> Catorgrapher these also contain the web site of ProFantasy software
> the programmers.
I have visited their site.
> on the site they have a freeware version of CC try it.
No, unless you've found something I haven't, they don't have a freeware
version of CC. They have a demo version of CC that has save and print
functions disabled.
> it's got to save you money
True, but I think I should clarify one point: I am not in anyway
opposed to paying for mapping software. Obviously, programmers need and
deserve to be paid for their efforts. I just think CC is a little
expensive when compared to the pricing of other software. I'm getting
the impression this may have to do with there being something of a
captive market.
> Hope this helps you
Thanks for the response, Mal.
John
CC is a CAD program. It is not just a mapping software. You can draw
house
plans, landscape designs, project plans, etc.... I have worked with
several CAD programs costing much more than CC and all its add on
features
combined. I thought that it must be a pretty lame program for its low
price, I was wrong. If you are not familiar with CAD programs it may seem
limited or pricey; but consider this, with CC you can draw detail down to
about a 1/2 inch in a zoom window of a map that has a scale of 1" equals
300 miles. Many people make the mistake of doing this, I do it sometimes
because I can. In CC there are over 200 separate layers that you can
place
information on. When it comes to printing you can limit the views to
layers
that you want to print on one map for the players and another group of
layers for the GM. I am working on having a separate layer for each PC.
The
link(DD,CD) feature allows you to quickly load related maps and text
files
to the main map or any combination of maps you desire. You can print
overlays to show political boundaries, on clear overlays with most Ink
Jet
printers. I have printed both with the HP 500 and an Epson Stylus C200. I
have gone to using CCPrint, a freeware window print utility, to combat
the
speed problem with printing in the DOS mode. I was actually a little
disappointed with the new interface that appeared with DD and CD, but
with
the addition of CCPro I have been able to adjust. I am still learning the
features of this program, but so far I have been satisfied with the
outcome
and potential. I hope you reconsider and examine CC a little closer, for
I
believe you will be surprised by the programs potential. The only limit
is
your imagination.
--
John
Some men see things as they are and ask, "Why !" I dream of
things that could be and ask, "Why Not ?"
( Robert Kennedy )
JCs...@sprynet.BLOCK.com
Remove BLOCK. before E mailing responses.
Fergus Gibson <fe...@islandnet.com> wrote in article
<3391B85B...@islandnet.com>...
Kevin A Barton
Thomas L Gardner (Nitew...@email.msn.com) wrote:
: Well Fergus, the only good mapping software I have seen is a pencil and
: paper. for world maps. For dungeon maps however I use Microsoft Excel and
: set all the cells until they look like squares. Then I use different
: border colors.
: I've tried the Map Maker software on the Core Rules CD-ROM, but it's not
: all that good.
: Hope this helps.
Pencil and paper is the way to go... it takes to damn long to draw
anything on a computer (even if you can do more with one)...
-mordraith
Fergus Gibson
In article <efilson....@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>,
efi...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu says...
> I'm going to be purchasing a program called "Terralogicus" shortly.
Another poster here sent me e-mail advising me to looking into
that program. I visited the Web site and evaluated it insomuch as I
could without a demo version. It looked interesting, but all the
screenshots showed hexes filled with flat colours and a legend. That's
functional, but not very inspiring. I don't know if the detail levels
actually show any more detail than simply coloured hexes, but I hope so.
I'd be interesting in hearing a review of the program from you
later or from anyone else who has experience with the program in
question.
Denis Tetreault
Fergus Gibson wrote:
>
> I need a mapping program. I've evaluated Campaign Cartographer;[snip]
> Is there an alternative to CC? I doubt it because I've heard of only[snip]
Well, I've never seen it mentioned here before, surprisingly, but the
programs used 95% of the time by people who make REAL maps, such as us
geologists ;-) are Autocad (very expensive and probably not very common
with people on this newsgroup) and CorelDraw. The latter, while still more
expensive than CC, is FAR more flexible (for doing non-mapping stuff) and
is the single most common drawing program out there. What's more is the
newest version is particulary seamless when it comes to integrating
vector-based drawing with bitmaps. If people got together and created a
library of buildings for importing, I think CorelDraw would be the best
mapping program available.
======================================
Denis Tetreault <den...@julian.uwo.ca>
Dept of Earth Sciences
Univ of Western Ontario
London, Ontario, Canada
Pesach CV Lattin, Publisher & Writer
Denis Tetreault wrote:
>
> Fergus Gibson wrote:
> >
> > I need a mapping program. I've evaluated Campaign Cartographer;[snip]
> > Is there an alternative to CC? I doubt it because I've heard of only[snip]
>
> Well, I've never seen it mentioned here before, surprisingly, but the
> programs used 95% of the time by people who make REAL maps, such as us
> geologists ;-) are Autocad (very expensive and probably not very common
> with people on this newsgroup) and CorelDraw. The latter, while still more
> expensive than CC, is FAR more flexible (for doing non-mapping stuff) and
> is the single most common drawing program out there. What's more is the
I have never seen anyone use CorelDraw for maps. However, I guess
it is possible. But, because it doesn't have mathmatical functions,
it is impossible to make accurate maps with it. Also, it is far from
the most common drawing program out there -- in fact, its really
not considered a 'drawing' program proper, but instead a graphical
placement program, desktop publishing program or numerous other things.
--
Pesach Lattin
Publisher, Sphere Online Publications
----
Sphere Fantasy, Sphere Gothic,
Present Image & Blessed Imagination
http://www.fantasylink.com
We have received acclaims from
writers, editors and publishers,
from Allan Cole, CJ Cherryh to
Lynn Abbey.
And ITS FREE.
---
Also, visit the official homepage of the
famous author RA Salvatore on our site at
http://www.fantasylink.com/rasalv/
---
Mike Wilson
> Is there an alternative to CC? I doubt it because I've heard of only
>I've never used TSR's mapping software, but I've also never heard an
>encouraging word about it. I'll buy CC if I have to, but I'd prefer to
>purchase something that has a price I consider more reasonable. Any
>ideas?
I've used several different map programs and have found one that is very
useful for mapping the "world" out. It's not all that great for mapping
down to the map/dungeon level but for the price (it's FREE!) it is great.
I'm still searching for dungeon/city mapping programs (and I am working
with someone that has almost completed one that will do just that and
more). The world mapper I am refering to is GRID and you can download it
from :
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/7649/
Located in the "programs" section.
Rob Hobbs
Pesach CV Lattin, Publisher & Writer <mas...@fantasylink.com> wrote in
article <3392AB...@fantasylink.com>...
> Denis Tetreault wrote:
> >
> > Fergus Gibson wrote:
> > >
> > > I need a mapping program. I've evaluated Campaign
Cartographer;[snip]
> > > Is there an alternative to CC? I doubt it because I've heard
of only[snip]
> >
> > Well, I've never seen it mentioned here before, surprisingly, but the
> > programs used 95% of the time by people who make REAL maps, such as us
> > geologists ;-) are Autocad (very expensive and probably not very common
> > with people on this newsgroup) and CorelDraw. The latter, while still
more
> > expensive than CC, is FAR more flexible (for doing non-mapping stuff)
and
> > is the single most common drawing program out there. What's more is the
>
> I have never seen anyone use CorelDraw for maps. However, I guess
> it is possible. But, because it doesn't have mathmatical functions,
> it is impossible to make accurate maps with it. Also, it is far from
> the most common drawing program out there -- in fact, its really
> not considered a 'drawing' program proper, but instead a graphical
> placement program, desktop publishing program or numerous other things.
>
I use CorelDraw for fantasy maps and it does very well, it would do better
if I had ANY artistic talent at all. I have no idea why one would need
math functions to make an accurate fantasy map. As to how common it is, I
don't know but it IS a "Drawing" program. The program was designed to be
used by graphic artists to design commercial logo's, artwork, etc... NOT
merely to cut and paste pre-existing artwork onto a page layout.
I use it to create world maps, figurine scale floorplans, templates for
spell AOE's, and heraldric devices. I also used it to design the plans we
used to rebuild the deck in my backyard.
I can't really say how it compares to other similer programs, since this is
the only graphic art's package I've used.
Have a good one...
Rob
Tim Breen
> I have never seen anyone use CorelDraw for maps. However, I guess
> it is possible. But, because it doesn't have mathmatical functions,
> it is impossible to make accurate maps with it. Also, it is far from
> the most common drawing program out there -- in fact, its really
> not considered a 'drawing' program proper, but instead a graphical
> placement program, desktop publishing program or numerous other things.
I've never seen maps made with CorelDraw either, but I _have_ seen them
done with Illustrator. To the best of my knowledge, Illustrator and
Photoshop are the graphic tools of choice among professional
computer-based artists. Does anyone know what program is used for the
USGS maps? "Mountain High," a company which specializes in selling
real-world maps on CDs uses EPS and TIFF formats, but there's no hint
what program was used to create them.
For me, I've stayed with pencil and paper maps _even though_ I own
Campaign Cartographer. The program seems very powerful, however the
interface is SUCH a pain in the ass to use that no degree of power is
worth that to me. So, it just sits on the shelf collecting dust next to
the 486 that also mostly collects dust. My wife, who is also an AutoCAD
12 user (the few times the PC gets turned on) says CC isn't so bad, but
she's not willing to redraw my hand-drawn maps with it, either.
If someone wanted to create a library of scalable EPS images for use in
various drawing programs I could probably come up with a web site to
house them.
-- Tim
Personal: http://personalweb.lightside.com/Pfiles/breen1.html
Gaming: http://www.rpga.org/home.html
E. Filson
Tim Breen <bre...@lightside.com> writes:
>> I have never seen anyone use CorelDraw for maps. However, I guess
>> it is possible. But, because it doesn't have mathmatical functions,
>> it is impossible to make accurate maps with it. Also, it is far from
>> the most common drawing program out there -- in fact, its really
>> not considered a 'drawing' program proper, but instead a graphical
>> placement program, desktop publishing program or numerous other things.
>I've never seen maps made with CorelDraw either, but I _have_ seen them
>done with Illustrator. To the best of my knowledge, Illustrator and
>Photoshop are the graphic tools of choice among professional
>computer-based artists.
Kent Mathesson (sp?) who runs the Codex of Greyhawk (URL easily obtainable
by a Yahoo search) did a *beautiful* job with the unpublished maps from
Ivid the Undying. Take a look... TSR could not have done better
themselves (hell, they should contract out to him insofar as I'm
concerned).
>For me, I've stayed with pencil and paper maps _even though_ I own
>Campaign Cartographer. The program seems very powerful, however the
>interface is SUCH a pain in the ass to use that no degree of power is
>worth that to me. So, it just sits on the shelf collecting dust next to
>the 486 that also mostly collects dust.
Here here! I spent $80+ on the miserable thing some time back (before the
fractal upgrades... they cost too much) and used it to create one map
before resorting to Paintbrush (yes, that turdly thing that comes with
Windows). Sure, it's not as pretty, but it did the trick... these were
"world managing" maps which were not going to be printed and distributed
though.
dek
Paul MacDonald
Man CC sure seems to be taking a beating here! I own CC as well as
CC-Pro and absolutely love 'em. I can't agree with the people that
complain about the interface at all. It definately requires some
practice but, after you get the feel of it, you can absolutely fly
through maps. All the symbols and scaling/rotational adjustments you
could want are only a couple key strokes or mouse clicks away. The fact
that it's not a Windows product is a plus. By keeping it a DOS program
the designers are able to write much tighter code. Granted the
interface will look unfamiliar to Windows users but It's much more disk
space freindly than a anything you could develop for Windows.
Paul MacDonald
Garrie Irons
ob Hobbs wrote:
>
> Pesach CV Lattin, Publisher & Writer <mas...@fantasylink.com> wrote in
> article <3392AB...@fantasylink.com>...
> > Denis Tetreault wrote:
> > >
> > > Fergus Gibson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I need a mapping program. I've evaluated Campaign
> Cartographer;[snip]
> > > > Is there an alternative to CC? I doubt it because I've heard
> of only[snip]
> > >
> > it is possible. But, because it doesn't have mathmatical functions,
> > it is impossible to make accurate maps with it. Also, it is far from
> > the most common drawing program out there -- in fact, its really
> > not considered a 'drawing' program proper, but instead a graphical
> > placement program, desktop publishing program or numerous other things.
> I use CorelDraw for fantasy maps and it does very well, it would do better
> if I had ANY artistic talent at all. I have no idea why one would need
> math functions to make an accurate fantasy map. As to how common it is, I
> don't know but it IS a "Drawing" program. The program was designed to be
> used by graphic artists to design commercial logo's, artwork, etc... NOT
> merely to cut and paste pre-existing artwork onto a page layout.
I would have thought that any projection of a sphere onto a flat surface
needed _some_ maths to make sure it worked. I know that I would
anyway...
I think I saw some mention of it but ...
being someone who has access to ACAD ( old version though ), I would
really
like to get hold of some "nice" town/city/mountain etc symbols for large
scale maps.
Any ideas???
Thanks,
Garrie.
Garrie Irons
DJorgen104
In article <339459...@lightside.com>, Tim Breen
<bre...@lightside.com> writes:
>For me, I've stayed with pencil and paper maps _even though_ I own
>Campaign Cartographer. The program seems very powerful, however the
>interface is SUCH a pain in the ass to use that no degree of power is
>worth that to me. So, it just sits on the shelf collecting dust next to
>the 486 that also mostly collects dust. My wife, who is also an AutoCAD
>12 user (the few times the PC gets turned on) says CC isn't so bad, but
>she's not willing to redraw my hand-drawn maps with it, either.
>
>
Hey, if anyone want to get rid of their copy of CC, I might be willing to
make an offer on it...
Dana Jorgensen
Alternate Realities Publications
DJorgen104
In article <339294...@julian.uwo.ca>, Denis Tetreault
<den...@julian.uwo.ca> writes:
>Well, I've never seen it mentioned here before, surprisingly, but the
>programs used 95% of the time by people who make REAL maps, such as us
>geologists ;-) are Autocad (very expensive and probably not very common
>with people on this newsgroup) and CorelDraw. The latter, while still
more
>expensive than CC, is FAR more flexible (for doing non-mapping stuff) and
>is the single most common drawing program out there. What's more is the
>newest version is particulary seamless when it comes to integrating
>vector-based drawing with bitmaps. If people got together and created a
>library of buildings for importing, I think CorelDraw would be the best
>mapping program available.
>
>
As an experienced desktop publisher, I can tell you that though CorelDraw
is the
most purchased piece of DTP software around, it is the least used. People
buy it
because they hope they're getting a bargain. They try it out, struggle
with it, fight
with it, then realize too late they made a mistake and go out and buy
photoshop
or illustrator. The only reason Corel is so common is that it is priced
several
hundred dollars lower than competing software. In all my years in
publishing, I can
only remember two clients out of several hundred who made extensive use
of coreldraw. One was an ad firm that handled sale papers for the IGA
grocery
chain in the Philadelphia area, and the other was a small business that
dealt with
collectible quality records.
Corel has absolutely no map-making abilities due to its lack of an
accurate scaling
mechanism. Its about as accurate for that as hand-drawing your maps. You
want
a good map, use an AutoCAD program. Campaign Cartographer is the best
there is
for that because it is customized for exactly that purpose. There is a
dirt-cheap
mapping program available from Compuworks, IIRC, retailing for about
$35.00, but
the results are mediocre and you have the problem with the fact that they
don't
make their data files compatible with anything else. CC lets you export to
a generic
graphics file type viewable on any computer with a decent graphics viewer,
but the
compuworks program is the only thing you can use to view its maps.
Chris Barnabo
Has anyone tried using Visio for map making? I've got very little
experience with it so far, but it seems that with it's ability to create
templates, multiple layers, etc. it would be possible, maybe even adequate.
-- Chris ________*________
____________ \_______________/ Chris Barnabo, iri...@ibm.net
\__________/ / /
__\ \_______/ /__ "The heck with the Prime Directive,
\_______________/(- let's destroy something!"
jamccall
Here's a thought, and I used it in the past as well.
Draw your map in pencil first, leaving out all any text, or if you put text
in mark lightly. Then draw over your lines in pen (use a black permanent
ink pen with a fine point) and then scan the image. Take it into Photoshop,
Paint Shop Pro, or some other bit map editor, color it and place your text
(preferably on a separate layer). Output teh file to a color printer and
you are set. Works real well if you don't rush and try to color the map
before hand.
Jimmy
Sam Robinson
DJorgen104 wrote:
>
> In article <339294...@julian.uwo.ca>, Denis Tetreault
> <den...@julian.uwo.ca> writes:
>
> >Well, I've never seen it mentioned here before, surprisingly,
> >but the programs used 95% of the time by people who make REAL
> >probably not very mmon with people on this newsgroup) and
> > FAR more flexible (for doing non-mapping stuff) and
> >is the single most common drawing program out there. What's
> >more is the newest version is particulary seamless when it
>
> CorelDraw is the most purchased piece of DTP software around, it is
> the least used. People buy it because they hope they're getting a
> bargain. They try it out, struggle with it, fight with it, then realize
> too late they made a mistake and go out and buy photoshop
> or illustrator. The only reason Corel is so common is that it is
> priced several hundred dollars lower than competing software. In all
> my years in publishing, I can only remember two clients out of several
> hundred who made extensive use of coreldraw. One was an ad firm that
> handled sale papers for the IGA grocery chain in the Philadelphia area,
> and the other was a small business that dealt with collectible quality
> records.
>
I don't know, I've been using Corel Draw, and although I'll be the first
to admit that I'm not a commercial artist, or a DTP professional,
(although I did spend a couple of years producing and publishing
technical documentation) I like it. I'd buy Photoshop if I needed a
professional quality image editor, but for drawing Corel Draw isn't too
bad.
> Corel has absolutely no map-making abilities due to its lack of an
> accurate scaling mechanism. Its about as accurate for that as
> hand-drawing your maps. You want a good map, use an AutoCAD program.
Funny, I use Corel draw for my maps. I've had no problems with scaling,
although I wish that they had some features that would be unique to
mapping (the ability to export segments of the drawing to tile files at
different resolutions would be quite nice!) I believe you are thinking
of Photoshop, which is bundled with the Corel Draw package. I can agree
that it wouldn't be the best choice for drawing maps as it is
essentially a bitmap editor, like paint.
If you wish, I've a fairly good map that I could show as an example...
but it's a huge file if converted to a bitmap. Let me know if you're
interested, and I'll try to figure out some way to send it.
--
Sam Robinson Sams...@mindspring.com
--------------------------------------------------
No OS or Platform R-Wars, Most of them work well
enough!
Sam Robinson
Chris Barnabo wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried using Visio for map making? I've got very little
> experience with it so far, but it seems that with it's ability to create
> templates, multiple layers, etc. it would be possible, maybe even adequate.
>
remember where. I don't know how well executed it was.
Scotty D.
In article <339294...@julian.uwo.ca>, den...@julian.uwo.ca says...
>
>Fergus Gibson wrote:
>>
>> I need a mapping program. I've evaluated Campaign Cartographer;[snip]
>> Is there an alternative to CC? I doubt it because I've heard of
only[snip]
>
for use on the maps. Was able to do several dungeon layouts, a full set of
Roborally stamps for making custome boards and an 1830 map with tile set.
Yours Truly, Scotty D.
DJorgen104
In article <3398BF...@mindspring.REMOVETHIS.com>, Sam Robinson
<Sams...@mindspring.REMOVETHIS.com> writes:
>Funny, I use Corel draw for my maps. I've had no problems with scaling,
>although I wish that they had some features that would be unique to
>mapping (the ability to export segments of the drawing to tile files at
>different resolutions would be quite nice!) I believe you are thinking
>of Photoshop, which is bundled with the Corel Draw package. I can agree
>that it wouldn't be the best choice for drawing maps as it is
>essentially a bitmap editor, like paint.
>
>If you wish, I've a fairly good map that I could show as an example...
>but it's a huge file if converted to a bitmap. Let me know if you're
>interested, and I'll try to figure out some way to send it.
Well, if you're saving files as hard-drive hogging bitmaps, no wonder
you're still using CorelDraw...
Leonard P. Zaikoski
In article <3398C0...@mindspring.REMOVETHIS.com>, Sams...@mindspring.REMOVETHIS.com wrote:
>Chris Barnabo wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone tried using Visio for map making? I've got very little
>> experience with it so far, but it seems that with it's ability to create
>> templates, multiple layers, etc. it would be possible, maybe even adequate.
>>
>Someone had posted a set of templates and object for visio, I don't
>remember where. I don't know how well executed it was.
The site is at http://www.clue.demon.co.uk/main.html and he has shapes for
both Visio and SmartDraw (another excellent package) I used them a little
(for SD) and had made a few nice maps. You can import other graphics from
Corel or other drawing programs, too.
Sam Robinson
Uhm, No I don't... and I sort of resent the implication. But a resonably
good transfer strategy for folks without a copy of Corel escapes me at
the moment, Paint is one of the few things that I can assume that
everyone has. I don't have the Acrobat writer. If you've got something
positive to say, or a better technical argument, I'm interested.
I've used the variable scale in the drawing product a lot, and it seems
to work fine to me for this application. I've used several CAD programs,
and they seem ill suited to this sort of work. I've not used Photoshop
since the late eightys, and then it wasn't as well suited to vector
graphics as any of the versions of Corel that I've used. (4-7 skipping
6) I'm sure that they've changed that, but _I_ don't have any experience
with the product.
DJorgen104
In article <33995A...@mindspring.REMOVETHIS.com>, Sam Robinson
<Sams...@mindspring.REMOVETHIS.com> writes:
>Uhm, No I don't... and I sort of resent the implication. But a resonably
>good transfer strategy for folks without a copy of Corel escapes me at
>the moment, Paint is one of the few things that I can assume that
>everyone has. I don't have the Acrobat writer. If you've got something
>positive to say, or a better technical argument, I'm interested.
>
One of the first things people do nowadays is get decent software to
replace
the crap like Write, notepad, and paint, which came with windows. There
are
oodles of shareware and freeware graphics programs. And Win 95 comes
with Wang Imaging, which can read jpegs, bitmaps, Tifs, and fax documents
( how's that for a wierd combo?). One of the best pieces of freeware one
can
get is LView Pro, a nice little graphics utility is Paint, but able to use
a wide
variety of file formats.
If the maps are for distribution to your players, ask them what software
they have for image viewing. If you're distributing through a web site,
then
you should already realize they use a gif/jpg viewer to visit your web
site.
>I've used the variable scale in the drawing product a lot, and it seems
>to work fine to me for this application. I've used several CAD programs,
>and they seem ill suited to this sort of work. I've not used Photoshop
>since the late eightys, and then it wasn't as well suited to vector
>graphics as any of the versions of Corel that I've used. (4-7 skipping
>6) I'm sure that they've changed that, but _I_ don't have any experience
>with the product.
Let's see.... Late 80's the product order, best-to-worst, would be:
1.) Ventura Publisher
2.)Quark Xpress
3.)CorelDraw
4.)The Adobe Suite (Illustrator, Photoshop, Pagemaker)
In the Early 90's the order changed.
1.)Quark Xpress
2.)The Adobe Suite
3.)CorelDraw (bought and absorbed Ventura Publisher)
But last summer, thanks to the unleashing of Windows 95 and the people of
adobe finally doing some programming, the order changed again.
1.)The Adobe Suite
2.) Quark Xpress
3.)CorelDraw.
Quark is about to release a new version of their software, which may
change
things yet again. Frankly, feature-wise, CorelDraw has consistently been
several generations behind the other two major DTP suites feature-wise.
Additionally, Adobe and Quark both support the use of third-party plug-ins
which enahnce their software further. Corel doesn't. As for dealing with
vector-based file formats, I've found Adobe Illustrator to be the best of
the
bunch for manipulations. Scan and color-correct with Photoshop, Manipulate
with Illustrator. Of course, adobe's major failing has been the fact that
you
need all 3 pieces of software to have full capacity. Quark Xpress, though
not
quite as good as the combined Adobe Suite, allows you to perform ALL the
duties of the entire adobe suite or coreldraw suite in a single program
(plus
the benefit of the thrid-party plug-ins). For Quark and Adobe, it is
possible
that a plug-in specifically for map-making could be developed ( or has
been,
considering the sheer number of plug-ins I've seen). Hell, Quark Xpress is
not only backward compatible, but forward compatible as well!
Sure, people can get by with Corel, but I personally can't see any reason
why they would want to unless they're too cheap to buy anything better or
they're too stubborn to buy anything better.
Dana Jorgensen
Alternate Realities Publications.
Keith Davies
On 8 Jun 1997 05:59:21 GMT, djorg...@aol.com (DJorgen104) wrote:
>In article <33995A...@mindspring.REMOVETHIS.com>, Sam Robinson
><Sams...@mindspring.REMOVETHIS.com> writes:
>
>One of the first things people do nowadays is get decent software to
>replace the crap like Write, notepad, and paint, which came with
>windows. There are oodles of shareware and freeware graphics programs.
>And Win 95 comes with Wang Imaging, which can read jpegs, bitmaps,
>Tifs, and fax documents ( how's that for a wierd combo?). One of the
>best pieces of freeware one can get is LView Pro,
LViewPro is *shareware*, not freeware. It is freely available on the
net, but you *are* expected to pay for it if you continue to use it.
Keith
-- [mailed and posted]
Lee & Pati Dowd
I read somewhere on the net that it is an older version of one of the
common CAD programs. I didn't like the fact that the demo demanded that
I run in a particular windows video mode. Surplus Direct has good
prices on some of the older versions of various drawing packages and so
do some of the net auctions. There was also a very impressive icon
based mapping package that is/was available on the net. The free ware
version had the save feature dissabled but it was great for making
buildings and dungeons I'm not sure if I used the outside feature or if
it was availabe in the free ware version. I've also used Harvard
Graphics for maps but I had to learn it for work and it isn't ideal for
maps.
Lee
Lee & Pati Dowd
Denis Tetreault wrote:
>
> Fergus Gibson wrote:
> >
> > I need a mapping program. I've evaluated Campaign Cartographer;[snip]
> > Is there an alternative to CC? I doubt it because I've heard of only[snip]
>
> geologists ;-) are Autocad (very expensive and probably not very common
> with people on this newsgroup) and CorelDraw. The latter, while still more
> expensive than CC, is FAR more flexible (for doing non-mapping stuff) and
>
I've seen older versions of CorelDraw going for about half the price of
CC on the net auctions.
Lee
Jeffrey McArthur
>John wrote:
>>
>> CC is a CAD program. It is not just a mapping software. You can draw
>
>I read somewhere on the net that it is an older version of one of the
>common CAD programs. I didn't like the fact that the demo demanded that
>I run in a particular windows video mode. Surplus Direct has good
>prices on some of the older versions of various drawing packages and so
>do some of the net auctions. There was also a very impressive icon
>based mapping package that is/was available on the net. The free ware
>version had the save feature dissabled but it was great for making
>buildings and dungeons I'm not sure if I used the outside feature or if
>it was availabe in the free ware version. I've also used Harvard
>Graphics for maps but I had to learn it for work and it isn't ideal for
>maps.
I have been working with Corel Flow. Corel Flow is "flow chart"
program. It supports up to 99 layers. The thing that excites me
about Corel Flow are its "Smart Libraries". The package comes with a
couple of thousand symbols (most useless for D&D). You can create
your own symbol sets. This allows you to create customized pallets of
symbols you want to use.
Another interresting feature of Corel Flow is its scripting language.
The scripting language is actually a basic interpeter (not my favorite
language). I have been working on a script to create a layer with a
hex grid. I am not quite finished, but most of it works. To be
honest, the scripting tool is very flakey. It is very easy to crash
the program when you write complex scripts. But if you are carefull
you can do it.
Since Corel Flow 3 is a 32 bit program, it runs only under Windows 95
or NT. It uses standard windows printer and screen drivers (a big
drawback to CC).
You can also create hyper-links between maps. So if you double click
a building, you could automatically bring up the map for the building.
Rob Hobbs
Lee & Pati Dowd <leew...@wwnet.com> wrote in article
<snip>
>
> I've seen older versions of CorelDraw going for about half the price of
> CC on the net auctions.
>
> Lee
>
>
About a month ago I found CorelDraw 6.0 at a computer show and payed $60
for it. A VERY good price compared to the usual $300 to $400 price tag. It
comes with Corel Photopaint, CorelDream 3D, and other utils. I haven't
learned to use the 3d rendering program yet but it could prove usefull in
mapping too.
Later,
Rob
han...@eunet.no
Lee & Pati Dowd <leew...@wwnet.com> writes:
> do some of the net auctions. There was also a very impressive icon
> based mapping package that is/was available on the net. The free ware
> version had the save feature dissabled but it was great for making
> buildings and dungeons I'm not sure if I used the outside feature or if
> it was availabe in the free ware version. I've also used Harvard
> Graphics for maps but I had to learn it for work and it isn't ideal for
> maps.
>
> Lee
>
>
Do you have the name and a location for this mapping package?
How was it set up compared to CC (drawing styles, layers etc.)
--
Hans-Christian Prytz
han...@eunet.no
"If anything can go wrong, it will"
- Murphy
Paul MacDonald
Lee & Pati Dowd wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> I've seen older versions of CorelDraw going for about half the price of
> CC on the net auctions.
>
> Lee
Besides the fact that Corel is (aguably) HARDER to use effectively than
CC and offers no scaling mechanisms and has no pre-built usable terrain
icons, no hex grid.... I'd say you get what you pay for. Incidently, I
use Corel for drawing. It's a wonderful drawing tool (once you get used
to it). It does not compare favorably to CC in the mapping arena
though. The output from Corel is very "static". You can load your maps
in CC and explore them, link maps together, and have them scale
correctly, easily adjust political boundaries... For those looking for
simple mapping programs I'd recommend the Fractal Mapper from NBOS. If
that doesn't float your boat, look at Adventure Writer from DIGITAL
ALchemy. both these companies have web sites. If you are looking at a
more general use package, go with Visio by Shapeware.
Paul
John
Jeffrey McArthur <jef...@connext.net> wrote in article
<339fbe5...@news.connext.net>...
> On Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:40:32 -0700, Lee & Pati Dowd
> <leew...@wwnet.com> wrote:
>
> >John wrote:
> >>
> >> CC is a CAD program. It is not just a mapping software. You can draw
> >
>
> program. It supports up to 99 layers. The thing that excites me
> about Corel Flow are its "Smart Libraries". The package comes with a
> couple of thousand symbols (most useless for D&D). You can create
> your own symbol sets. This allows you to create customized pallets of
> symbols you want to use.
CC has 255 layers. It has libraries of symbols that can be added to
including adding them to the menus. You can create a symbol of anything
you can design.
>
> Another interresting feature of Corel Flow is its scripting language.
> The scripting language is actually a basic interpeter (not my favorite
> language). I have been working on a script to create a layer with a
> hex grid. I am not quite finished, but most of it works. To be
> honest, the scripting tool is very flakey. It is very easy to crash
> the program when you write complex scripts. But if you are carefull
> you can do it.
CC has hex layer and grid layer that can be added and hidden for printing
or while you work on the drawing.
> Since Corel Flow 3 is a 32 bit program, it runs only under Windows 95
> or NT. It uses standard windows printer and screen drivers (a big
> drawback to CC).
>
Agreed. A definite drawback to CC; however, CCPrint allows the viewing
and printing of maps in Win95. It does the job, except for a few color
problems.
> You can also create hyper-links between maps. So if you double click
> a building, you could automatically bring up the map for the building.
>
CC has a link system also.
John
--
John
Some men see things as they are and ask, "Why !" I dream of
things that could be and ask, "Why Not ?"
( Robert Kennedy )
JCs...@sprynet.BLOCK.com
Remove BLOCK. before E mailing responses.
Lee & Pati Dowd
> Besides the fact that Corel is (aguably) HARDER to use effectively than
> CC and offers no scaling mechanisms and has no pre-built usable terrain
> icons, no hex grid.... I'd say you get what you pay for. Incidently, I
> use Corel for drawing. It's a wonderful drawing tool (once you get used
> to it). It does not compare favorably to CC in the mapping arena
> though. The output from Corel is very "static". You can load your maps
> in CC and explore them, link maps together, and have them scale
> correctly, easily adjust political boundaries... For those looking for
> simple mapping programs I'd recommend the Fractal Mapper from NBOS. If
> that doesn't float your boat, look at Adventure Writer from DIGITAL
> ALchemy. both these companies have web sites. If you are looking at a
> more general use package, go with Visio by Shapeware.
>
> Paul
Someone mentioned that Corel was more expensive than CC. I haven't used
it so I'll deferr to you experiance with it. I've also got a mapping
program with the Triad Campaign system but haven't really tried it yet.
Looks like it has many of the features of CC though.
Lee
Eloise Beltz-Decker
<< major snippage of why CC is godlike and wonderful >>
I might very well own a copy of CC ... if they'd ever bloody
returned my mail. I sent them a self-addressed stamped envelope asking
what the current price was for it, and etc etc and if it weren't too much
trouble maybe a catalog. Nada. It's like it dropped off the face of the
planet. I love what I've heard about the program, but the staff is
apparently rude as hell, and not interested in my business.
--
--- BEGIN GEEKCODE BLOCK ---
Version 3.1
Eloise Beltz-Decker GAT/C/L/MU* d+(!) s+: a--
elo...@ripco.com C+++(--) US+ L E---- W+@ N++@
http://pages.ripco.com:8080/~eloise/ o++ !w !O M+ V-- PS+ !PE Y+
t+++@ 5++ X+ R[WoD/AD&D]++(*)
& * Blessed be * & b++++@ G+ e* h- r++ x*
--- END GEEKCODE BLOCK ---
Lyan
Eloise Beltz-Decker <elo...@ripco.com> wrote in article
<Pine.SV4.3.91.97061...@foley.ripco.com>...
> << major snippage of why CC is godlike and wonderful >>
>
> I might very well own a copy of CC ... if they'd ever bloody
> returned my mail. I sent them a self-addressed stamped envelope asking
> what the current price was for it, and etc etc and if it weren't too much
> trouble maybe a catalog. Nada. It's like it dropped off the face of the
> planet. I love what I've heard about the program, but the staff is
> apparently rude as hell, and not interested in my business.
> Eloise Beltz-Decker
My experience with Simon and Mark has hardly been unpleasant. I've
talked with Simon on the phone, and I've had occasion to write to Mark via
e-mail. Both of them have responded, helped, commented, etc. without
a trace of rudeness.
Is it possible that your letter, SASE and all, just didn't make it to their
address? I know it's very Internet chic to blame the intended recipient
for not
acknowledging one's sense of importance, but it is possible that some
misfortune caused the normally flawless Postal Service (of any country) to
lose your letter.
This, of course, is not the fault of Profantasy or its proprietors. It
isn't rude
not to reply to a letter that was never received.
Lyan
John
Eloise Beltz-Decker <elo...@ripco.com> wrote in article
<Pine.SV4.3.91.97061...@foley.ripco.com>...
> << major snippage of why CC is godlike and wonderful >>
I am not sure what you were referring to as the major snip, the edit or
the poster. The majority of the post you snipped was about Corel Flow,
not CC.
>
> I might very well own a copy of CC ... if they'd ever bloody
> returned my mail. I sent them a self-addressed stamped envelope asking
> what the current price was for it, and etc etc and if it weren't too
much
> trouble maybe a catalog. Nada. It's like it dropped off the face of the
> planet. I love what I've heard about the program, but the staff is
> apparently rude as hell, and not interested in my business.
Obviously you are not aware of http://w3.win-uk/net/profant/, since the
ordering info and pricing for US and UK is on their web site. They also
have other country ordering on the site.