raise dead spell work on elves?
Reginald
>
>The group I'm playing with insists that the spell Raise Dead
>doesn't work on Elves. I had never heard of such a thing
>but the spell description in the PHB says it works on
>humans, halflings, gnomes.....but doesn't list Elves. It
>does say it works on other creatures at the DM's option.
>So my question is: does the Raise Dead spell work on Elves?
Nope, but Resurrection spell works.
The man with the big smile
rules they have to limit what some people think are super powerful
elves. Elves level limit. Elves can't cast resurrection on elves. What
do you guys think? (And it really explains the decline of the race as a
whole) (of course advanced level limits for higher stats and slow
progression annihilate this but well... oh well...)
Matt Fritz
The group I'm playing with insists that the spell Raise Dead
doesn't work on Elves. I had never heard of such a thing
but the spell description in the PHB says it works on
humans, halflings, gnomes.....but doesn't list Elves. It
does say it works on other creatures at the DM's option.
So my question is: does the Raise Dead spell work on Elves?
Matt F.
Staffan Johansson
Nope. That's one of the few disadvantages of being an elf.
The reason for this is that elves are supposed to have spirits instead
of souls, or something like that. I believe that Resurrection works,
however, and I know a Rod of Resurrection does (though it uses up a LOT
of charges in the process).
--
Staffan Johansson (d9...@efd.lth.se)
Drive defensively. Buy a tank.
Kaviyd
Does a Raise Dead spell work on Elves?
According to the 1st edition PHB, no.
According to the D&D Rules Cyclopedia, yes.
According to the 2d edition PHB, it is the DM's option.
Your players either remember the 1st edition rules or
are used to playing 2d edition with a strict DM.
Kav...@aol.com
(David Knott)
Reading mail from me in a Usenet group does not grant you the
right to send me unsolicited commercial e-mail. All senders of
unsolicited commercial e-mail will be reported to their postmasters
as Usenet abusers.
Neutronium Dragon
>The group I'm playing with insists that the spell Raise Dead
>doesn't work on Elves. I had never heard of such a thing
>but the spell description in the PHB says it works on
>humans, halflings, gnomes.....but doesn't list Elves. It
>does say it works on other creatures at the DM's option.
>
>Matt F.
The spell Raise Dead is very limited in what can be brought back with it.
Humans, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, half breeds of the above (half elves, half
orcs, etc), and creatures derived from one of the above (such as human
swanmays), will be affected. Other creatures, because they have spirits instead
of souls, will not.
For those others, other methods are all viable. Resurrection is the primary
one, either by spell or device, but Reincarnation, Wish, and other spells
capable of doing the job will work for them (as well as for the ones that Raise
Dead affects, of course.)
--
| Neutronium Dragon | Dragon Code: DC.D f+ s++ h++++ CSW a++++ $- |
| aha...@direct.ca | m- d+++ WL++* Fr+++ L+++ BP e++++! g- i- U+++ |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
| "Is that all you monks ever think about!? Sects, sects, sects!" |
Erik Ward
says...
I think I'll stick to the explanation from Fiest's Midkemia world: elves
aren't (not can't) ressurrected/raised since they have gone to the Blessed
Isles (Heaven) and to bring them back would be to return them from somewhere
much better. Elves, once dead, do not WANT to come back.
Of course, this requires actual role playing, not the constant "My elf is
different and WANTS to come back.'
the Nightshade,
Erik Ward
Gebhard Blucher
[snip]
Nothing to do with the topic at hand, but what happened to the Big Smile
(tm) ASCII .sig art? I thought that was a riot. I liked it... :)
GB
Ken Andrews
>Matt Fritz wrote:
>>
>> The group I'm playing with insists that the spell Raise Dead
>> doesn't work on Elves. I had never heard of such a thing
>> but the spell description in the PHB says it works on
>> humans, halflings, gnomes.....but doesn't list Elves. It
>> does say it works on other creatures at the DM's option.
>> So my question is: does the Raise Dead spell work on Elves?
>
>
>The reason for this is that elves are supposed to have spirits instead
>of souls, or something like that. I believe that Resurrection works,
>however, and I know a Rod of Resurrection does (though it uses up a LOT
>of charges in the process).
Quite right. However, I tossed this rule out of my game (and the specious
reasoning for it) 2 minutes after noticing that Reincarnate works on both
Humans and Elves, and can bring a Human back as an Elf, or an Elf back as a
Human. So much for the Soul / Spirit difference.
Rodney Hobbs
>>doesn't work on Elves. I had never heard of such a thing
>>but the spell description in the PHB says it works on
>>humans, halflings, gnomes.....but doesn't list Elves. It
>>does say it works on other creatures at the DM's option.
>>So my question is: does the Raise Dead spell work on Elves?
>>
>
>The spell Raise Dead is very limited in what can be brought back with it.
>Humans, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, half breeds of the above (half elves,
half
>orcs, etc), and creatures derived from one of the above (such as human
instead
>of souls, will not.
>
>For those others, other methods are all viable. Resurrection is the primary
>one, either by spell or device, but Reincarnation, Wish, and other spells
>capable of doing the job will work for them (as well as for the ones that
Raise
>Dead affects, of course.)
>
>--
>| Neutronium Dragon | Dragon Code: DC.D f+ s++ h++++ CSW a++++ $- |
>| aha...@direct.ca | m- d+++ WL++* Fr+++ L+++ BP e++++! g- i- U+++ |
>|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
>| "Is that all you monks ever think about!? Sects, sects, sects!" |
>
"resurrect" a dead character. (See "Tome of Magic", Reverse Time spell -
Priest 6th). This spell has limited application, but could be re-worked to
be more powerful at a higher spell level.
rodne...@one.net.au
Digitalelf
I don't let a Raise Dead spell raise an elf because of that "spirit/soul thing.
But because Ressurection is a more powerful spell, I let it work to restore an
elf.
Also, as a side note on those spells (at least IMC), when a Raise Dead spell
brings a person back, he is brought back as a 1st level character. I do this
because I feel that the raise dead spell is not powerful enough to do more. And
I have the ressurection spell bring a person (or elf) back to their previous
level and back at full HP, simply to show how big a difference there is between
a "mere" 5th level spell and the sheer power held in a 7th level spell.......
Larry Mead
: The group I'm playing with insists that the spell Raise Dead
: doesn't work on Elves. I had never heard of such a thing
: but the spell description in the PHB says it works on
: humans, halflings, gnomes.....but doesn't list Elves. It
: does say it works on other creatures at the DM's option.
: So my question is: does the Raise Dead spell work on Elves?
They are correct: raise dead does not work on elves. The description
in the spell is correct as pointed out in several places. First, the
1st edition books are clearer. Gygax writes that Elves do not have souls;
necessary to be raised. Second, this question has appeared in Sage Advice
in the dragon mag. which confirmed that elves cannot be raised.
DMgorgon
--
Lawrence R. Mead Ph.D. (Lawren...@usm.edu)
Eschew Obfuscation! Espouse Elucidation!
www-dept.usm.edu/~physics/mead.html
Larry Mead
: Matt Fritz wrote:
: >
: > The group I'm playing with insists that the spell Raise Dead
: > doesn't work on Elves. I had never heard of such a thing
: > but the spell description in the PHB says it works on
: > humans, halflings, gnomes.....but doesn't list Elves. It
: > does say it works on other creatures at the DM's option.
: > So my question is: does the Raise Dead spell work on Elves?
: Nope. That's one of the few disadvantages of being an elf.
: The reason for this is that elves are supposed to have spirits instead
: of souls, or something like that. I believe that Resurrection works,
: however, and I know a Rod of Resurrection does (though it uses up a LOT
: of charges in the process).
Yes, I should have mentioned that: at least in 1st Ed. the rod of
ressurection is the only way to "raise" an elf, and that takes something
like 7 charges, IMMC.
: Staffan Johansson (d9...@efd.lth.se)
: Drive defensively. Buy a tank.
DMgorgon
Larry Mead
: Staffan Johansson wrote in message <362E9C15...@efd.lth.se>...
: Quite right. However, I tossed this rule out of my game (and the specious
: reasoning for it) 2 minutes after noticing that Reincarnate works on both
: Humans and Elves, and can bring a Human back as an Elf, or an Elf back as a
: Human. So much for the Soul / Spirit difference.
Reincarnate actually makes a new body, though, something the "spirit"
might just prefer to inhabit ;-).
Anyway, why make that choice? Surely reincarnate is far rarer than raise
dead, so why not rule that elves cannot be reincarnated either? Then the
two spells would be consistent.
Bertil Jonell
Erik Ward <erik...@bogus.lexmark.com> wrote:
>Of course, this requires actual role playing, not the constant "My elf is
>different and WANTS to come back.'
I used to let the players roll a d20 against their PC's wisdom,
and if they *failed* their PC was dumb enough to want to come back:)
The spell was still spent, of course.
>Erik Ward
-bertil-
--
"It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or
strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an
exercise for your kill-file."
towo...@concentric.net
>however, and I know a Rod of Resurrection does (though it uses up a LOT
>of charges in the process).
An elven thief is screwed. 8)
But what if he's a very pious elven thief?
--
Jason
http://www.cris.com/~towonder/
Sailor Moon V at http://www.cris.com/~towonder/fanfic.shtml
Reginald
>Staffan Johansson <d9...@efd.lth.se> might have said:
>>however, and I know a Rod of Resurrection does (though it uses up a LOT
>>of charges in the process).
>
>An elven thief is screwed. 8)
>
>But what if he's a very pious elven thief?
Then a very pious elven thief is screwed. :-D
Joseph Michael Bay
>Quite right. However, I tossed this rule out of my game (and the specious
>reasoning for it) 2 minutes after noticing that Reincarnate works on both
>Humans and Elves, and can bring a Human back as an Elf, or an Elf back as a
>Human. So much for the Soul / Spirit difference.
Well, reincarnation doesn't change your actual soul/spirit; just
the form of your body.
--
Joseph Bay Mmmm . . . antigenic.
"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed". "Dog's don't know it's not Bacon".
Hi! I'm a replicative .signature transposon! Copy me into your .signature!
Ken Andrews
>Ken Andrews (gob...@degook.com) wrote:
>: Quite right. However, I tossed this rule out of my game (and the
specious
>: reasoning for it) 2 minutes after noticing that Reincarnate works on both
>: Humans and Elves, and can bring a Human back as an Elf, or an Elf back as
a
>: Human. So much for the Soul / Spirit difference.
>
>might just prefer to inhabit ;-).
>Anyway, why make that choice? Surely reincarnate is far rarer than raise
>dead, so why not rule that elves cannot be reincarnated either? Then the
>two spells would be consistent.
Making Raise Dead work on Elves also induces consistency. I believe that it
also has the advantage of requiring less explanation. Two ways to achieve
consistency (as if consistency was a *desireable* thing).
Larry Mead
: Staffan Johansson <d9...@efd.lth.se> might have said:
: >however, and I know a Rod of Resurrection does (though it uses up a LOT
: >of charges in the process).
: An elven thief is screwed. 8)
: But what if he's a very pious elven thief?
: Jason
Friar Jesse James of the forest - robs banks and trains and gives to the
local temple? Nah.
;-)
Larry Mead
: Larry Mead wrote
I was teasing you; you picked the one most favorable to the elven PC and I
was trying to get you to realize this 8-).
I personally don't need these to be consistent as they are sufficiently
different in my mind. I won't agrue with your choice as their is really
only "consistency" to go by.
Phoenix
> The group I'm playing with insists that the spell Raise Dead
> doesn't work on Elves. I had never heard of such a thing
> but the spell description in the PHB says it works on
> humans, halflings, gnomes.....but doesn't list Elves. It
> does say it works on other creatures at the DM's option.
> So my question is: does the Raise Dead spell work on Elves?
>
>
No it doesn't. The spell Raise Dead is just powerful enough to bring
back life to a normal humanoid, or dwarf or anything between.Elves don't
fall into these category, since they are more like "spirits in human
form". Anyhow, they require a more powerful spell to be restored to
life.
In the same way you cannot resurrect a Dragon with a mere
"resurrection".
Phoenix
--
In the beginning there was nothing.
Then God said:"Let there be light." And light there was.
Well, there was still nothing, but you could see it a whole lot better!
Robert Baldwin
<Loui...@hotmail.com.what> wrote:
>To be a real prick and mix topics. I think this is one of the best
>rules they have to limit what some people think are supper powerful
>elves. Elves level limit. Elves can't cast ressurection on elves. What
>do you guys think? (And it really explains the decline of the race as a
>whole) (of course advanced level limits for higher stats and slow
>progression anihilate this but well... oh well...)
Well, since you asked... :-)
I never have understood the reasoning for believing that elves are
over-powered in the first place, and I've never seen any reason to
have Raise Dead work any less well on an Elf than a human.
And why insist on elves as a "declining" race in the first place?
--
"Everyone dies someday; the trick is doing it well."
-
Worship the comic: www.sluggy.com
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Remove the spam.block to reply.
Robert Baldwin
wrote:
<snip>
>I think I'll stick to the explanation from Fiest's Midkemia world: elves
>aren't (not can't) ressurrected/raised since they have gone to the Blessed
>Isles (Heaven) and to bring them back would be to return them from somewhere
>much better. Elves, once dead, do not WANT to come back.
>
>different and WANTS to come back.'
Sorry, but that seems to me to be more stereotype than role-play.
Elves *never* want to come back; humans *always do. Elves are
*always* too ditzy to really excel at something (level limits); *all*
humans have the potential for unlimited progress.
I think each race should have a spectrum of abilities, and it should
be left to the player to decide on personal choices and
characteristics.
Meta4
that Tolkien has nothing to do with AD&D is full of it.
Robert Baldwin wrote:
>
> On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:57:14 -0700, The man with the big smile
> <Loui...@hotmail.com.what> wrote:
>
> >To be a real prick and mix topics. I think this is one of the best
> >rules they have to limit what some people think are supper powerful
> >elves. Elves level limit. Elves can't cast ressurection on elves. What
> >do you guys think? (And it really explains the decline of the race as a
> >whole) (of course advanced level limits for higher stats and slow
> >progression anihilate this but well... oh well...)
>
> Well, since you asked... :-)
> I never have understood the reasoning for believing that elves are
> over-powered in the first place, and I've never seen any reason to
> have Raise Dead work any less well on an Elf than a human.
> And why insist on elves as a "declining" race in the first place?
>
> --
> "Everyone dies someday; the trick is doing it well."
> -
> Worship the comic: www.sluggy.com
> -
> Remove the spam.block to reply.
--
-Meta4-
The CyberProtectorates
IT2 Leader
CyberP...@yahoo.com
cy...@my-dejanews.com
Staffan Johansson <d9...@efd.lth.se> wrote:
> Matt Fritz wrote:
> >
> > The group I'm playing with insists that the spell Raise Dead
> > doesn't work on Elves. I had never heard of such a thing
> > but the spell description in the PHB says it works on
> > humans, halflings, gnomes.....but doesn't list Elves. It
> > does say it works on other creatures at the DM's option.
> > So my question is: does the Raise Dead spell work on Elves?
>
>
> The reason for this is that elves are supposed to have spirits instead
> of souls, or something like that. I believe that Resurrection works,
> of charges in the process).
I agree with you Staffan,,,, Im playing a game at the moment where the elven
fighter mage got killed,,, -10 or so HP,,, so he got tossed into a pool of
resurrection and came out all fine and dandy... the priest couldnt cast "raise
dead" on him, the DM wouldnt allow it..
cyris
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Robert Baldwin
wrote:
>Ever read Tolkien? You'll see what we are getting at. Anyone that says
>that Tolkien has nothing to do with AD&D is full of it.
More times than I can count. And the decision to have elves as a
declining race is up to the DM. Even maintaining a Tolkien-esque
flavor, one could as easily use FA as TA. (And just to pick a nit:
Tolkien has *nothing* to do with *D&D. *D&D, however, does boprrow
from Tolkien more than a little.)
Gygax, OTOH, clearly states that it is his intent to have the AD&D
universe be humanocentric. I just choose not to follow in that
direction. IMC, the Elvish kingdoms are Maor Powrs, and anyone
foolish enough to anger an Elvish Archmage gets what they deserve.