Special Attacks and Special Defences
Daniel
1) What is the initiative for SA or SD if using Combat & Tactics
Player's Option?
2) What would be an initiative for turning undead and backstabing?
Can player perform any other actions before/after?
3) Some special attacks in MM and compendiums, are actually parts of
normal attack, why are they listed in SA section? ex. poison from bite
4) Can SA and SD be perfomed in addition to normal allowed attacks?
There seem to be many variations:
a) Poisonous snake always injects poison, if bite is successful.
b) Grapple attack only succeedes if both arms/claws hit.
c) Dragon breathes instead of claw/claw/bite mode.
d) Charge instead of normal melee attack.
5) Can monsters use SD in addition to move/special attack/normal
attack? Ex. Can vampire attack, charm, and become gaseous in the same
round?
Drizzle
> 4) Can SA and SD be perfomed in addition to normal allowed attacks?
> There seem to be many variations:
>
> a) Poisonous snake always injects poison, if bite is successful.
In real life not all snake bites (by poisonous snakes) involve the injection
of poison. There have been cases of sea snakes biting and 'forgetting' to
inject poison. (Case examples include divers with definite bite marks which
still hurts, but the diver being otherwise uneffected, instead of being
pretty much stuffed as their heart stops due to the poison and them still
floating in the water.)
Given that this is a game and I have no idea of the statistical frequency of
this, it can still be ignored for simplicity's sake.
(translation ^_^: ... blah ... RL facts ... blah blah... zzzzz!)
Ian R. Malcomson
>I have few questions about SA and SD.
>
>1) What is the initiative for SA or SD if using Combat & Tactics
>Player's Option?
Fast (+3) for spell-like abilities, otherwise depending on the ability
(a poisonous bite would have the initiative of the bite; MR needs no
initiative; etc.).
>2) What would be an initiative for turning undead and backstabing?
>Can player perform any other actions before/after?
[Turn] Fast. No (assumption being it's a no-move action).
[Backstab] As per weapon used. Yes (as an attack - no-move or
half-move).
>3) Some special attacks in MM and compendiums, are actually parts of
>normal attack, why are they listed in SA section? ex. poison from bite
Because they are "special" when compared to a normal attack. A snake's
bite deals damage (normal) plus poison (special).
>4) Can SA and SD be perfomed in addition to normal allowed attacks?
>There seem to be many variations:
>
> a) Poisonous snake always injects poison, if bite is successful.
> b) Grapple attack only succeedes if both arms/claws hit.
> c) Dragon breathes instead of claw/claw/bite mode.
> d) Charge instead of normal melee attack.
As you say, there are many variations. It depends on the ability
concerned, the description of the ability in the monster's entry, and so
on. DM call based on available information. Most spell-like abilities
are performed as if they were spells (i.e., as no-move actions), except
they are not disrupted (see Spells & Magic p.48).
>5) Can monsters use SD in addition to move/special attack/normal
>attack? Ex. Can vampire attack, charm, and become gaseous in the same
>round?
No. The vampire may attack or charm or become gaseous. See note above.
--
Ian R Malcomson
Daniel
> Daniel <dkr...@hotmail.com> writes
> >I have few questions about SA and SD.
> >
> >1) What is the initiative for SA or SD if using Combat & Tactics
> >Player's Option?
>
> Fast (+3) for spell-like abilities, otherwise depending on the ability
> (a poisonous bite would have the initiative of the bite; MR needs no
> initiative; etc.).
>
> >2) What would be an initiative for turning undead and backstabing?
> >Can player perform any other actions before/after?
>
> [Turn] Fast. No (assumption being it's a no-move action).
> [Backstab] As per weapon used. Yes (as an attack - no-move or
> half-move).
happens instantly. What if they are just turned?
>
> >3) Some special attacks in MM and compendiums, are actually parts of
> >normal attack, why are they listed in SA section? ex. poison from bite
>
> Because they are "special" when compared to a normal attack. A snake's
> bite deals damage (normal) plus poison (special).
>
> >4) Can SA and SD be perfomed in addition to normal allowed attacks?
> >There seem to be many variations:
> >
> > a) Poisonous snake always injects poison, if bite is successful.
> > b) Grapple attack only succeedes if both arms/claws hit.
> > c) Dragon breathes instead of claw/claw/bite mode.
> > d) Charge instead of normal melee attack.
>
> As you say, there are many variations. It depends on the ability
> concerned, the description of the ability in the monster's entry, and so
> on. DM call based on available information. Most spell-like abilities
> are performed as if they were spells (i.e., as no-move actions), except
> they are not disrupted (see Spells & Magic p.48).
>
> >5) Can monsters use SD in addition to move/special attack/normal
> >attack? Ex. Can vampire attack, charm, and become gaseous in the same
> >round?
>
> No. The vampire may attack or charm or become gaseous. See note above.
Number of attacks is assumed to be number of normal attacks, so how
would I know if a particular monster can also use special
attacks/defences in addition to that? So the rule of thumb should be:
either attack with natural/melee weapon, or attack with missle weapon,
or use spell-like ability (gaze, ray, charm, breath weapon, etc.)?
How should trap disarming, paladin's laying of hands, shapeshifting,
and blinking be handled in respect to initiative and additional
attack/move action?
Thank you.
Ian R. Malcomson
>How fast do undead react to turn? If they are destroyed I assume it
>happens instantly. What if they are just turned?
If affected prior to their own action, their own action becomes a full
move (away from the turning priest); if affected after their own action,
their next action becomes a full move (away from the turning priest).
>Number of attacks is assumed to be number of normal attacks, so how
>would I know if a particular monster can also use special
>attacks/defences in addition to that? So the rule of thumb should be:
>either attack with natural/melee weapon, or attack with missle weapon,
>or use spell-like ability (gaze, ray, charm, breath weapon, etc.)?
Yes. In a similar vein, you would not allow a wizard to attack with a
dagger, then cast magic missile, just because his spellcasting is not an
attack, n'est pas? Okay, so spellcasting is specifically dealt with in
the rules, but that's the general idea. Take it as read that unless it
specifies in the creature's entry that it can perform multiple actions,
it can only perform single actions (as no-move, half-move, or full-move,
depending on their nearest equivalent listed action).
>How should trap disarming, paladin's laying of hands, shapeshifting,
>and blinking be handled in respect to initiative and additional
>attack/move action?
With the exception of trap disarming and blinking, they are spell-like
abilities (fast/+3). A case could be made for making them half-move
actions, and a counter-case can be made for keeping them as no-move
actions as all other such abilities. DM call (it is "Options" for a
reason).
For blink, roll normally for the segment the caster blinks (see the
spell's description, as modified by Combat & Tactics p68). The caster
has no control over when he blinks. For creatures listed as having
blink ability, either treat them as blink (no control) or improved blink
(see Spells & Magic, control) depending on the creature's description.
For trap disarming, assume that the thief achieves the disarm on his
initiative on the round the ability succeeds on (if it succeeds) - see
the description in the PHB. Assume it is an average, no-move action
(another assumption - if an activity doesn't carry a specific speed, or
cannot be adequately equated to a listed one, assume it is average).
>Thank you.
You're welcome.
--
Ian R Malcomson
Michael Scott Brown
news:41bf4626.03090...@posting.google.com...
> How fast do undead react to turn? If they are destroyed I assume it
> happens instantly. What if they are just turned?
Then on their next opportunity to act, they respond accordingly. If
they've already taken their moves & attacks this round, that will be next
round, otherwise when their Move phase comes up away they go.
> > No. The vampire may attack or charm or become gaseous. See note
above.
>
> Number of attacks is assumed to be number of normal attacks, so how
> would I know if a particular monster can also use special
> attacks/defences in addition to that?
A combination of the DMG, monster manual (where such things are
explained), and common sense. Look at the monster. *Understand* how it
fights, and what the game statistics are trying to represent. Snakes have
poisonous bites, so its {poison} ability is invoked when it bites somone
successfully ..
> So the rule of thumb should be:
> either attack with natural/melee weapon, or attack with missle weapon,
> or use spell-like ability (gaze, ray, charm, breath weapon, etc.)?
That's the gist of it. Fight people, or do your magic mojo.
> How should trap disarming, paladin's laying of hands, shapeshifting,
> and blinking be handled in respect to initiative and additional
> attack/move action?
Disarming a trap and the like takes the round - so presume the
character starts working on their base move phase and leave them be until
the round is finished. Shapeshifting's time requirements are described by
the spell or class or monster description; if it takes "a round" then start
them on their base move and finish at the end of the round; if they can do
it instantly then you know the answer to that as well. Isn't Blink
explained in C&T?
Ian R. Malcomson
> Disarming a trap and the like takes the round - so presume the
>character starts working on their base move phase and leave them be until
>the round is finished.
Disarming a trap takes 1-10 rounds (2nd Ed. PHB).
>Isn't Blink
>explained in C&T?
Yes, p.68.
--
Ian R Malcomson
Geoffrey Brent
> On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 03:50:57 GMT, dkr...@hotmail.com (Daniel) wrote
>> a) Poisonous snake always injects poison, if bite is successful.
>
>
> In real life not all snake bites (by poisonous snakes) involve the injection
> of poison. There have been cases of sea snakes biting and 'forgetting' to
> inject poison.
Actually, this is quite common, and it's not a case of "forgetting".
Snakes don't get venom for free - it has a nutritional cost to produce.
From a venomous snake's point of view, tangling with a human-sized
opponent is a no-win scenario. Regardless of what D&D poisoning rules
and popular myth might say on the subject, snake venom isn't going to
kill in a couple of minutes. By that point, if the fight isn't already
resolved, the snake is dead.
So, either the snake flees (most common outcome, where the option
exists), or it tries to scare the human off by display or by biting.
Whether or not it injects venom makes very little difference to the
snake's chance of surviving the encounter, so it's often better off
saving it for small squeaky things.
I'm not certain whether all venomous snakes have the option of not
injecting, but I do know non-envenomed bites are quite common, and not
just among sea snakes.
> Given that this is a game and I have no idea of the statistical frequency of
> this, it can still be ignored for simplicity's sake.
"Numerous studies indicate that about half the time no venom is injected
into the victim when a venomous snake strikes." (Notes that in some
occasions, rattlers don't even bother unfolding their fangs when
delivering a warning bite - after all, there's a risk of breakage that way).
Whether this is likely to be true in a D&D world depends on some
assumptions. If snake venoms are as fast-acting as the poisons rules
suggest, a small snake defending itself as a human has a lot more to
gain by injecting venom, so may do so more often than in the real world.
A snake large enough to eat humans will be likely to use its venom,
since killing (and in some cases, predigesting) food is the primary
purpose of snake venom.
Nikolas Landauer
> "Ian R. Malcomson" <i...@domicus.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:<1c8byZConcX$Ew...@domicus.demon.co.uk>...
> >
> > [Backstab] As per weapon used. Yes (as an attack - no-move or
> > half-move).
>
> How fast do undead react to turn? If they are destroyed I assume it
> happens instantly. What if they are just turned?
Ian and Michael have already responded to this, but I wanted to add one
note: Undead react to a turning attempt *immediately*, just like
destruction. They don't *move* until their next action (which, as Ian
and Michael said, is a full move away from the turner), but they react
immediately: Since they can't flee yet, they cower. The Sage addressed
this at some point very early on in 3.0.
--
Nik - remove clothing to reply
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raciocination.' The brave writer says, 'I think, therefore I am.'"
- Ursula K. LeGuin