Law symbol?
Justisaur
uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
A
._ '|` _.
|\. | ./|
`\. | ./'
, `\.|./' .
<------CHAOS------>
` ./'|`\. '
./' | `\.
|/' | `\|
'" .|, "`
V itz
--
- Justisaur -
check http://justisaur.tripod.com/well.htm for my encounter generator,
xp calculator, and other usefull documents.
Douglas Bailey
> I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
> uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
Well, in Michael Moorcock's _Elric_ novels (in which the 8-arrowed
Chaos symbol originated), the symbol of Law is a single arrow pointing
upwards.
Glorantha -- the world from _RuneQuest_ and _Hero Wars_ -- uses an
equilateral triangle as its Law rune.
HTH,
doug
--
---------------Douglas Bailey (trys...@world.std.com)---------------
I can't see the lines I used to think I could read between...
--Eno
Adam Canning
> I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
> uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
>
> A
> ._ '|` _.
> |\. | ./|
> `\. | ./'
> , `\.|./' .
> <------CHAOS------>
> ` ./'|`\. '
> ./' | `\.
> |/' | `\|
> '" .|, "`
> V itz
>
>
>
Since you've gone Moorcockean then A single Arrow is the symbol of Law.
Alternatively there is the Reclusean analysis: Chaos is White and Law
is Black.
--
Adam
Justisaur
Douglas Bailey wrote:
>
> Justisaur <rpil...@rcsis.com> wrote:
>
> > I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
> > uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
>
> Well, in Michael Moorcock's _Elric_ novels (in which the 8-arrowed
> Chaos symbol originated), the symbol of Law is a single arrow pointing
> upwards.
>
Oh that's right. Rather goofy looking IIRC.
> Glorantha -- the world from _RuneQuest_ and _Hero Wars_ -- uses an
> equilateral triangle as its Law rune.
>
Hmm. Guess Law just doesn't get the interesting symbols. But then that
seems apropriate being law and all.
Varl
> I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
> uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
I've always considered the scales of justice to be the
symbol for Law.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for
good men to do nothing.
-Edmund Burke
Bryan J. Maloney
news:3F2AF38E...@rcsis.com:
>
>
> Douglas Bailey wrote:
>>
>> Justisaur <rpil...@rcsis.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically
>> > chaos uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for
>> > law?
>>
>> Well, in Michael Moorcock's _Elric_ novels (in which the 8-arrowed
>> Chaos symbol originated), the symbol of Law is a single arrow
>> pointing upwards.
>>
>
> Oh that's right. Rather goofy looking IIRC.
>
>> Glorantha -- the world from _RuneQuest_ and _Hero Wars_ -- uses an
>> equilateral triangle as its Law rune.
>>
>
> Hmm. Guess Law just doesn't get the interesting symbols. But then
> that seems apropriate being law and all.
>
The arrow octet also was invented by moorcock. The symbol for Chaos in
RuneQuest is a black circle with horns.
DM70
"Varl" <bsm...@premier1.net> wrote in message
news:3F2AFEFE...@premier1.net...
> Justisaur wrote:
> > I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
> > uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
>
> I've always considered the scales of justice to be the
> symbol for Law.
>
DM
Fitz
wrote:
>I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
>uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
>
> A
> ._ '|` _.
> |\. | ./|
> `\. | ./'
> , `\.|./' .
> <------CHAOS------>
> ` ./'|`\. '
> ./' | `\.
> |/' | `\|
> '" .|, "`
> V itz
Well, a triangle is a fundamentally stable form so it would make a
good opposing symbol to Chaos. You could expand the concept a little
and make the symbol a pyramid rather than a simple 2d triangle. And
since the Law oversees all, you could put an eye in the pyramid. Huh?
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fitz
http://fitz.jsr.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Rehm
> I believe Moorcock uses the scales for neutrality. Correct?
"The Balance." Pretty much the same thing.
--
Chris Rehm
ch...@mammothdungeons.com
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love
thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal. 5: 14
Jon
> I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
> uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
You could take a page from the U.S. Justice system and use a balancing
scale - although, now that I've written it I think that might be a
better symbol for the neutrals.
Since the opposite of chaos is more accurately order, you could use a
checkerboard pattern.
-Jon
Stephenls
<snip HTML>
Stop posting in HTML.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"Go then. There are other worlds than these."
Bradd W. Szonye
Weird, I didn't see any html.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Talen
<rpil...@rcsis.com> wrote:
>I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
>uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
A set of balanced scales.
--
Talen
http://hypercrescendo.net/talen/
"What is this maturity thing? Can it be molested easily?"
- Jamie
The Gurus love you
Talen
wrote:
>On Fri, 01 Aug 2003 22:45:18 GMT, Justisaur <rpil...@rcsis.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
>>uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
>>
>> A
>> ._ '|` _.
>> |\. | ./|
>> `\. | ./'
>> , `\.|./' .
>> <------CHAOS------>
>> ` ./'|`\. '
>> ./' | `\.
>> |/' | `\|
>> '" .|, "`
>> V itz
>
>Well, a triangle is a fundamentally stable form so it would make a
>good opposing symbol to Chaos. You could expand the concept a little
>and make the symbol a pyramid rather than a simple 2d triangle. And
>since the Law oversees all, you could put an eye in the pyramid. Huh?
Actually, you could do either a pair of nested triangles, one
inverted, or a circle; at last check, both are fundamentally lawful
objects, in that the triangle is one of the simplest polygons (and
therefore the least likely to fuck up somehow) and that as an object,
a circle is, at last check, somehow equal. High school geometry was
too long ago.
--
Talen
http://hypercrescendo.net/talen/
"That's one of the few good things about being American: one
gets to type shorter versions of the same words."
"And that outweighs the bad things about being American,
like, say, being American?"
"No, but unfortunately I'm stuck here so I have to find
consolation wherever I can."
- Andrusi And Talen
The Gurus love you
Talen
<bradd...@szonye.com> wrote:
>Stephenls <step...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> Jon wrote:
>>
>><snip HTML>
>>
>> Stop posting in HTML.
>
>Weird, I didn't see any html.
Ditto. Strikes me as curious. Stephenls doesn't usually see things
that aren't there in my experience.
--
Talen
http://hypercrescendo.net/talen/
"Who saved AGP? I fucking did."
- ยต
The Gurus love you
Bradd W. Szonye
> It has been brought to my attention that "Bradd W. Szonye"
><bradd...@szonye.com> wrote:
>
>>Stephenls <step...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>> Jon wrote:
>>>
>>><snip HTML>
>>>
>>> Stop posting in HTML.
>>
>>Weird, I didn't see any html.
>
> Ditto. Strikes me as curious. Stephenls doesn't usually see things
> that aren't there in my experience.
The orignal post didn't have a supersedes header either (at least not
that I noticed). Maybe he superseded it in the other direction? Or maybe
Steve-o has just been playing too much Mage: The Ascension.
Talen
<bradd...@szonye.com> wrote:
>Talen <ta...@spamspamspamspam.iinet.net.au> wrote:
>> It has been brought to my attention that "Bradd W. Szonye"
>><bradd...@szonye.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Stephenls <step...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>> Jon wrote:
>>>>
>>>><snip HTML>
>>>>
>>>> Stop posting in HTML.
>>>
>>>Weird, I didn't see any html.
>>
>> Ditto. Strikes me as curious. Stephenls doesn't usually see things
>> that aren't there in my experience.
>
>The orignal post didn't have a supersedes header either (at least not
>that I noticed). Maybe he superseded it in the other direction? Or maybe
>Steve-o has just been playing too much Mage: The Ascension.
Or perhaps it's the Matrix calling to you.
--
Talen
http://hypercrescendo.net/talen/
"As Americans, we know that if our forefathers came back to
life, they'd bring about a new age of equality and peace.
Australia's forefathers were a boatful of convicted felons. If
they came back to life, they would murder all of us and try to
sell our bodies to Vietnamese restaurants. And Australians
party like they're expecting that."
- seanbaby
The Gurus love you
Willie
> > I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
> > uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
>
> I've always considered the scales of justice to be the
> symbol for Law.
ONLY concerned with Law. Scales represent Justice,
and anyone that has ever seen a court of Law opperate
can tell you, Law and Justice are seperate things. Law
is the letter... it is unbending, unyielding, and defined.
Justice is the intent... it is an interpretation of what the
Law was meant to represent. If the Law was followed
soley, everyone doing a certain crime would get the
exact same sentence, regardless of prior history and
circumstances. Justice allows for leniency if circumstances
justify...... so the scales should represent Justice and
the single arrow should represent Law.
Brandon Blackmoor
Since the balance in question has "law" on one side of the scale and
"mercy" on the other side (as the two things being balanced), I don't
really think it's an appropriate symbol for "law". Typically it's a
symbol for "justice".
Varl
>>Stop posting in HTML.
>
>
> Weird, I didn't see any html.
I saw what Stephenls saw. It was either html or a font
like Courier. It kinda looks like Courier.
Jon
> "mercy" on the other side (as the two things being balanced), I don't
> really think it's an appropriate symbol for "law". Typically it's a
> symbol for "justice".
That's what I was gettting at before - scales seem more appropriate
for Neutral. A symbol for Law would be like an anti-chaos, so perhaps
eight arrows pointing inwards? Or a plain circle?
In regards to the campaign itself, could give me amore of an idea what
you're aiming for? Since you're going the Moorcock route, I'm curious
wether "chaos" = "evil" and "law" = "good". Because one of the things
thatI loved about the Elric series was the idea that a victory for the
forces of Law wouldn't necessarily be better than a victory for Chaos.
It's been a few years, but I seem to recall that the Law god-like
beings were tedious and overbearing in their own right...
-Jon
Stephenls
> The orignal post didn't have a supersedes header either (at least not
> that I noticed). Maybe he superseded it in the other direction? Or maybe
> Steve-o has just been playing too much Mage: The Ascension.
Don't call me Steve-o. There's another posted named that.
Although I forget whether he posts to this newsgroup or not.
Stephenls
> Weird, I didn't see any html.
Maybe it wasn't HTML, then. But it was definitely a different font.
Malachias Invictus
> Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
>
> >>Stop posting in HTML.
> >
> >
> > Weird, I didn't see any html.
>
> I saw what Stephenls saw. It was either html or a font
> like Courier. It kinda looks like Courier.
I am getting some funky "Japanese language support" download prompt.
--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.
from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Bradd W. Szonye
>> Weird, I didn't see any html.
Stephenls <step...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> Maybe it wasn't HTML, then. But it was definitely a different font.
Ah, I figured it out:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP
The font-change was your browser's attempt to display a japanese
character set. That's not HTML posting, and it's acceptable to change
your charset even on Usenet, but the poster should probably check his
newsreader configuration. Few messages need anything more than ASCII,
which practically everyone can read.
Oh, and sorry about the Steve-o thing. Just being playful.
Kari Korpi
> That's what I was gettting at before - scales seem more appropriate
> for Neutral. A symbol for Law would be like an anti-chaos, so perhaps
> eight arrows pointing inwards? Or a plain circle?
I'd vote for a triangle as the symbol of Law. Scales just strike me
more as a symbol for Neutrality (balance) or, as a different concept,
Justice.
> In regards to the campaign itself, could give me amore of an idea what
> you're aiming for? Since you're going the Moorcock route, I'm curious
> wether "chaos" = "evil" and "law" = "good". Because one of the things
> thatI loved about the Elric series was the idea that a victory for the
> forces of Law wouldn't necessarily be better than a victory for Chaos.
> It's been a few years, but I seem to recall that the Law god-like
> beings were tedious and overbearing in their own right...
I have the Stormbringer RPG based on the Elric books, and in the rules
it was said that Chaos is not necessarily evil (it represents change,
which is not inherently evil) and Law is not necessarily good (it
represents non-change, again not inherently good or evil). Although
Elric's chaotic gods - Arioch, Pyaray, etc - were portrayed as rather
evil bastards ("Blood and souls for Arioch!") some were rather more
like Chaotic Neutral to me (Balo the Jester, for instance). And Lawful
people weren't nice guys either - Myshella, supposedly the greatest
champion of Law, annihilated the Kelmain Host with a particularly
nauseating spell (the Noose of Flesh) and she bloody well didn't show
any mercy or regret afterwards. Even Elric flinched at that spell.
And you're right, when reading the books I got the idea that utter
control by either Chaos or Law would either 1) destroy the universe
or 2) make it simply unbearable for mankind to live (Chaos rules:
too much change, Law rules: stagnation). I think that
the Horn of Fate was an artifact of Neutrality, in fact.
The Warhammer books, OTOH, indicate that being Chaotic is even
*worse* than being Evil, since Chaos is trying to corrupt the entire
world, good, evil and neutral alike. Nurgle, for example, is
definitely less savoury than an evil god as Khaine.
Cheers,
-Stegu
--
"Dispatch the War Rocket Ajax to bring back his body."
- Cdr. Kala, "Flash Gordon"
Allen Wessels
Kari Korpi <c000...@newton.tpu.fixx.invalid> wrote:
> Jon <spam...@netcarrier.com> wrote:
> > That's what I was gettting at before - scales seem more appropriate
> > for Neutral. A symbol for Law would be like an anti-chaos, so perhaps
> > eight arrows pointing inwards? Or a plain circle?
>
> I'd vote for a triangle as the symbol of Law. Scales just strike me
> more as a symbol for Neutrality (balance) or, as a different concept,
> Justice.
Triangle-delta-change.
- Allen
Kari Korpi
> Triangle-delta-change.
You just hit the nail on the head - one of the few things I
remember from my high school physics is delta-V being the change
in velocity. Then again, I really sucked at high school physics :)
But I do remember that some RPG represented the equilateral
triangle as a "perfect" shape, so my opinion came from that
angle.
Cheers,
-Stegu
--
"The owls are not what they seem."
- The Giant, "Twin Peaks"
Jon
> > Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
> Ah, I figured it out:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP
>
> The font-change was your browser's attempt to display a japanese
> character set.
That's odd. I use the google reader and I've never known it to do that before...
-Jon
James Stein
> I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
> uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
>
Mayhap a gnomon?
Shaped roughly like...
____
/ /
/ /
/____/
Specifically, I would cite it's background importance:
The geometric figure that remains after a parallelogram has been removed
from a similar but larger parallelogram with which it shares a corner.
(dictionary.com)
More specifically, the concept is that from the smallest of segments,
one can derive the entirety.
Is an entire structure replicated through pattern.
Really, any good pattern can be a symbol for law.
Harry
Harry
> >> Weird, I didn't see any html.
>
> Stephenls <step...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> > Maybe it wasn't HTML, then. But it was definitely a different font.
>
> Ah, I figured it out:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP
>
> The font-change was your browser's attempt to display a japanese
> character set. That's not HTML posting, and it's acceptable to change
> your charset even on Usenet, but the poster should probably check his
> newsreader configuration. Few messages need anything more than ASCII,
> which practically everyone can read.
Ahhh..ok
Harry
"Jon" <spam...@netcarrier.com> wrote in message
news:952fb032.03080...@posting.google.com...
You don't happen to call your system 'Hal' or anything like that, do you?
Bryan J. Maloney
news:5n8Xa.130962$R92....@news2.central.cox.net:
Or use a newsreader that isn't browser-bound.
Wayne Shaw
>I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
>uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
>
> A
> ._ '|` _.
> |\. | ./|
> `\. | ./'
> , `\.|./' .
> <------CHAOS------>
> ` ./'|`\. '
> ./' | `\.
> |/' | `\|
> '" .|, "`
> V itz
In Moorcock, as I recall, it was a single upward pointing arrow.
Theodore Jay Miller
> I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
> uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
>
> A
> ._ '|` _.
> |\. | ./|
> `\. | ./'
> , `\.|./' .
> <------CHAOS------>
> ` ./'|`\. '
> ./' | `\.
> |/' | `\|
> '" .|, "`
> V itz
If Chaos is a bunch of arrows in different directions, Law could
be a set of parallel arrows:
---------->
---------->
---------->
Brad Murray
TJM> If Chaos is a bunch of arrows in different directions, Law could
TJM> be a set of parallel arrows:
A single arrow, symbolizing unity of thought, direction, and
objective. Pointing up, to indicate the superiority of Law (as
"above" is a nearly universal symbol of superiority). Colour gold, to
symbolize the precious nature of law, its crucial role in commerce,
and uncorruptability.
--
Brad Murray * "It is possible to forget that the vital idea of democracy
VSCA Founder * -- government of the people, by the people, for the people
* -- does not constitute a form of escape from government."
* -- Joseph Tussman through John Dixon
Loup-Garou
According to the Deities & Demi-gods book with the Melnibonean gods,
Donblas' Holy Symbol is an amber arrow pointing up.
Loup Garou
--
grrr-arghhh...
Ubiquitous
>I was thinking about a chaos vs law campain, I know that typically chaos
>uses the 8 pointed arrow cross. What would be the symbol for law?
>
> A
> ._ '|` _.
> |\. | ./|
> `\. | ./'
> , `\.|./' .
> <------CHAOS------>
> ` ./'|`\. '
> ./' | `\.
> |/' | `\|
> '" .|, "`
> V itz
Why don;t you use the Moorcock symbol for Law or an aspect of Lady Justice?