Magic Missile underwater
Andreas Schendel
of our group could find any clue in any of the basic rulebooks that
would tell us if this spell does work underwater. Just now I the DM
allows it on the ground that it doen's seem to be forbidden by the basic
rules and that it seems to be ok for those missiles to streak through
water as good as through air, but he (and we) is still a bit unsure.
Can somebody help ?
Alfred Hailey
Magic Missile should work just fine underwater.
--
| Neutronium Dragon | Dragon Code: DC2.D* Gm L+++ W T+++! Phfwlt Sks |
| neutroniumdragon@ | Cwh^ Bpl A+++! Fr+++ N^ M--- O/ H+++! $---! |
| home.com | Fo--- R+ Ac+++ J+ S+ U! I-- V+++! Q--- Tc+ |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Quoth the necromancer: How dare you infringe upon my wights! |
Michael Michailidis
reasons. First it cannot be cast underwater since it needs a verval
component and secondly even if it cast outside the water, the water reduces
the speed of the missile significatly in order to hit effectively. It is
similar to the Psionic Power Inertial Barrier which stops Migic Missiles.
Have a look at the Psionic Power (Psionic Handbook p46). Do not forget that
Maggic Missile is a physical Missile created by Magic.
Michael
"Andreas Schendel" <0251614...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3B91F86D...@no-spam.t-online.de...
Dirk Collins
and should work in every environment. There is nothing that says you have to
cast a spell exactly the same every time, There is also nothing that says a
spell cast differently is going to work differently as well... There's
ground not covered as well, with a spell cast differently, having a
different effect.
I realize that there are some who would not agree with me here on this, but
it's reasonable to presume that if I cast a magic missile from the surface
at an underwater target, once the missiles formed they would speed
inerringly towards their target.
If I wanted to cast a magic missile spell while underwater, using the 3e
rules, I would require a spellcraft check from the wizard or sorcerer in
question (To see if the wizard had the skills and talent to modify the spell
on the fly), If the wizard passed, say a DC 15 or 20 Spellcraft check, I
would allow the wizard to cast the spell while underwater.
With Regards,
Dirk Collins
Jeff Wilder
| Do not forget that Maggic Missile is a physical
| Missile created by Magic.
Does armor stop a Magic Missile? Then why in the world would
water?
Jeff
P.S. And if it does, it's gonna totally revolutionize the
armor-crafting business.
Firelock
> As aDM I am not allowing Magic Missiles to hit an oponent underwater for two
> reasons. First it cannot be cast underwater since it needs a verval
> component and secondly even if it cast outside the water, the water reduces
> the speed of the missile significatly in order to hit effectively. It is
> similar to the Psionic Power Inertial Barrier which stops Migic Missiles.
> Have a look at the Psionic Power (Psionic Handbook p46). Do not forget that
> Maggic Missile is a physical Missile created by Magic.
The standard 3e Magic Missile spell uses Evocation magic to create
a bolt of force, not a physical object. This bolt of force isn't
slowed down at all by a full suit of plate armor, so I don't think that
in my campaign I'll have any trouble with people using it underwater.
The verbal component is another matter, they'll have to get around
that with a metamagic feat (silent spell), another spell, or an
appropriate magic item.
Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
James J. Dominguez
If it came up in a game I was DMing, I would allow it, but reduce
the range somewhat, simply because water is thicker than air, and any
magical effect that displaces the matter around it should theoretically
have a harder time travelling through water.
*shrug* Actually, depending on my mood, I might just say "It's
magic - it works" and be done with it.
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| James J. Dominguez AKA DexX de...@ihug.com.au ICQ#: 10419916 |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Bring me another cabin boy, this one's busted." - Tripod Tells the |
| Tale of the Adventures of Tosswinkle the Pirate (Not Very Well) |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
Michael Michailidis
Magic Missile, so why not water then...
"Jeff Wilder" <wild...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:twpk7.4897$Wp.2...@news.pacbell.net...
Jeff Wilder
| The same question is for the Psionic Inertial Barrier
| but it still stops the Magic Missile, so why not water
| then...
Because the psionic Inertial Barrier, on whatever
pseudo-scientific basis its name is based, is ACTUALLY a magical
wall of force.
Jeff
Geoff Watson
> The same question is for the Psionic Inertial Barrier but it still stops
the
> Magic Missile, so why not water then...
>
It doesn't.
Inertial Barrier has a list of things it protects against, and a list of
things it doesn't protect against.
'Missiles created of pure magic' is on the NOT protected against list.
Geoff.
Kyramus
2nd Edition MM and 3rd Edition MM are more or less the same.
As a DM for over 10 years with my group, I have watched different variations
on casting spells.
For MM to work underwater, The main concern is being able to speak the
words. Bubbles don't count as words, HOWEVER Vocalize spell will work for
this. Vocalize allows a person to cast a spell in silence. Now how does
this work underwater? The Spoken works might be bubbled but since it was
spoken out through the Vocalize, it functions normally.
Another variation is that if the person has water breathing, then they are
speaking normally with out the bubbles and hence the spell will go off
without a problem.
Magic Missile has always been an automatic hit unless you designate a
targetted area. With that in mind, it is a line of sight. If the waters
are murky and the target is partially covered by this murky water, I would
judge that a roll to hit is required.
The other part of your question deals with the bolt itself. How does a
magic missile work underwater? In air it cuts through without a problem to
hit a person right through armor. The arguements I have seen on the board
states that if it goes through armor, it goes through water. Not so, armor
is what protects a person and a bolt of force just doesn't acknowledge the
armor as protection. Water on the other hand is a different medium, I would
judge that it speeds through water like a bullet. Essentially making a
tunnel in the water with it's passing, and since water closes on itself, the
tunnel disappears. Does this effect the damage, I wouldn't say so. The
damage from the spell is not from the speed of the missile but the missile
itself. A slow magic missile will still cause the same amount of damage.
If you need more help, let me know.
Kyramus
"Andreas Schendel" <0251614...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3B91F86D...@no-spam.t-online.de...
Andreas Schendel
possibility to cast 'Magic Missile' underwater. The argument, that it does
indeed ignore even the strongest armour is a good point.
Of course the wizard has to be able to vocalize the spell. But our group was
water breathing (enabled by our druid), so this wasn't a problem. Perhaps
one should penalize a wizard who is casting this spell underwater for the
first few times with a probability for failure of -say- 20% or so, which
goes down as he grows accustomed to casting this spell underwater ...
And if one sees these missiles indeed as physical things rushing to the
target, perhaps one should impose a damage reduction to 1w2 per missile when
used underwater - it still does hit but doesn't pack the same punch as under
'normal' conditions.
Andreas
Brad Wallace
I am looking in the Complete Wizards Handbook:
Casting Spells Underwater.
Assuming that the wizard can find a way to breathe underwater for extended
periods, most of his spells will function normally with identical casting
times, ranges, components, and effects.
Spells that are ineffective underwater level 1: Affect normal fires,
Burning hands, jump, mount, wall of fog
Spells that are modified underwater level 1: Chromatic Orb: The heat,
fire, and stinking cloud effects are unavailable underwater.
So the official 2e is no change for Magic Missle underwater.
Brad
Robert Bridge
Probably a dangerous approach, but...
It's Magic, DM's call.
I would favor it working.
.
James Kiley
jk
*zworch*
Alfred Hailey
> of our group could find any clue in any of the basic rulebooks that
> would tell us if this spell does work underwater. Just now I the DM
> allows it on the ground that it doen's seem to be forbidden by the basic
> rules and that it seems to be ok for those missiles to streak through
> water as good as through air, but he (and we) is still a bit unsure.
If you want an official 2E source, the Complete Wizard's Handbook
doesn't included Magic Missile among its listing of inoperable/altered
spells underwater, which it certainly would if Magic Missile were
unusable. So it works just fine.
Mike Bruner
> I first read this subject line as "Magic Missile Underwear."
At last, a reason for female mages to wear revealing clothes; so
it doesn't interfere with the targeting! :)
--
Mike Bruner...@delaware.infi.net
"Yes, I am a servant of Satan, but my duties are largely
ceremonial".
If you can't be a good example, you'll have to be a horrible
warning.
Anivair
>It's Magic, DM's call.
>I would favor it working.
me too, esspecially since spells that function differently underwater say so in
their description.
--
later,
~Anivair
Ani...@aol.com
Michelle Vanelsacker
Anivair <ani...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010925012722...@mb-mv.aol.com...
> >Probably a dangerous approach, but...
> >It's Magic, DM's call.
> >I would favor it working.
>
> me too, esspecially since spells that function differently underwater say
so in
> their description.
>
For over ten years We have used that as our basis for 2nd and now third
editions. I even remember at GenCon at 2nd ed. opening it was used under
water.
Just my guts,
Darla
> --
> later,
> ~Anivair
> Ani...@aol.com