World Building
George Christie
a great program to have. please e-mail me if such a thing exists.
George Christie
bad...@netrover.com
Jan Michael Money
George Christie <bad...@netrover.com> wrote in message
news:rscB4.35937$Jz3.3...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
George Christie
just toss out ideas I perhaps haven't thought of. Unlike you I suppose I'm
not all knowing.
George
Jan Michael Money <jan...@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:dNcB4.2709$S3.7...@tw12.nn.bcandid.com...
Tim Martin
I find my imagination works just find. Oh, and real life history, and
novels, and sometimes even tv shows and movies. Maybe there is a program
that will DM for you too.
Are you serious?????
George Christie wrote in message ...
Zamboni
>
> Actually I usually use WordPerfect. However I was thinking of something to
> just toss out ideas I perhaps haven't thought of. Unlike you I suppose I'm
> not all knowing.
>
"And in the 4th Age, the peaceful kingdom of Aurilia enjoyed years of prosperity..."
[general protection fault]
"And in the 4th Age, after being destroyed by a great earthquake, the
blasted realm of Aurilia remained under the iron fist of the Protector Generals..."
--
Zamboni
George Christie
No wonder people think Gamers are anti-social if you act like this towards
everyone. I DM quite well actually, and I have created several of my own
campaigns, all of which my players enjoyed. I have studied history, I plan
on teaching it, and I read constantly, as well as watch History and A&E, and
I do have a great imagination, thanks for the insult. I suppose none of you
ever use random name generators, or bought modules, or Dragon magazines or
Dungeon magazines, because you are too good for that too. I must say I
expected more from this group.
George Christie,
Totally disgusted
Tim Martin <tf_m...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:QDgB4.782$l34....@news3.mia...
Joe Jefferson
I don't know of any software to generate historical events, but the
_World Builders Guidebok_ has a table to do that, as did the 1st edition
_Oriental Adventures_.
You may now resume your petty squabbling. ;)
--
Joe of Castle Jefferson
http://www.primenet.com/~jjstrshp/
Site updated October 1st, 1999.
"Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the
poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the
hand of the wicked." - Psalm 82:3-4.
Barry Smith
>
> Amazing you know. I come on here, make a suggestion and catch flak for it.
> No wonder people think Gamers are anti-social if you act like this towards
> everyone. I DM quite well actually, and I have created several of my own
> campaigns, all of which my players enjoyed. I have studied history, I plan
> on teaching it, and I read constantly, as well as watch History and A&E, and
> I do have a great imagination, thanks for the insult. I suppose none of you
> ever use random name generators, or bought modules, or Dragon magazines or
> Dungeon magazines, because you are too good for that too. I must say I
> expected more from this group.
A database is what you would be looking for. The database would also
have to compromise hundreds, if not thousands, of possible history
changing events that "could" have occurred over the years. I don't
believe anyone has ever thought about creating something like this to
date, as most people create the unique histories of their worlds either
on the fly or as a small snippet just in case the players are wondering.
I do think there is potential in a database like that, though. All
things considered, both in fantasy and in our own real life history,
people could generate a significant number of topics for a history
database to randomly generate the histories of individual campaign
worlds.
Give it time. Now that you've mentioned it, as these things tend to do,
someone somewhere out there is thinking the exact same thing and
creating it as we speak... ;)
--
"Beauty truly is in the eyes of the Beholder", said the Beholder. "Take
a closer look if you don't believe me."
Llorac
> George Christie <bad...@netrover.com> wrote in message
> news:rscB4.35937$Jz3.3...@nnrp1.uunet.ca...
> > Is there a program out there that creates histories of worlds? It would
> be
> > a great program to have. please e-mail me if such a thing exists.
>
> >
> How about Microsoft Word?
*rofl*
- Don
Azrael
> Amazing you know. I come on here, make a suggestion and catch flak for
it.
> No wonder people think Gamers are anti-social if you act like this towards
> everyone. I DM quite well actually, and I have created several of my own
> campaigns, all of which my players enjoyed. I have studied history, I
plan
> on teaching it, and I read constantly, as well as watch History and A&E,
and
> I do have a great imagination, thanks for the insult. I suppose none of
you
> ever use random name generators, or bought modules, or Dragon magazines or
> Dungeon magazines, because you are too good for that too. I must say I
> expected more from this group.
>
> Totally disgusted
Well George, I obviously don't speak for everyone here, but I think that the
genereal consensus is that if you are going to create your own world, then
you should be creative enough to come up with the history for it as well.
As far as your question goes, I haven't heard of any programs that randomly
generate world events etc for you, and I'm not sure how useful such a
program would be, since it's likely it would generate a lot of highly
inappropriate results (a common trait amongst many random generators
anyway).
A more time consuming, but more controllable thing to do, would be to simply
take events from other worlds, books, movies, etc - I'm sure you'd know
where to start, since you have thought up your own world, and have a good
knowledge of history. Any random history generating program would most
likely be doing the exact same thing, just at the press of a button, since
most fantasy worlds are quite generic anyway (generally speaking).
I think my opinion is - random generators are something you use when you are
short on time. I use them for quickly generating minor treasure caches,
insignificant npc's and their names, and so on - little things that can be
time consuming, time which would be better spent focussed on more
significant parts of the adventure (or things other than RPG, heaven forbid
:). If you have taken the time to create your own world, then the history is
something you should also spend time creating yourself - that is, if it is
important to the game. If it's not that important, then don't worry about
it. I can see the value in having a random historical event generator, but
there is no substitute for creativity and imagination when it comes to being
a DM.
azrael
James Robinson
<bad...@netrover.com> wrote:
[much ado about history-generating software]
> I must say I expected more from this group.
USENET does not come with any guarantees. :-)
That said, your post has hardly been up for very long. Give it a
little time, and maybe something will pop up.
Although, frankly, there's very little discussion about software aids
here. I think the Core Rules software comprises about 90% of it. This
is still very much a pencil and paper crowd - or at most, a
word-processor crowd.
Good luck,
--
James
http://avalon.net/~amorph
James Robinson
<theza...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "And in the 4th Age, the peaceful kingdom of Aurilia enjoyed years of
> prosperity..."
>
> [general protection fault]
>
> "And in the 4th Age, after being destroyed by a great earthquake, the
> blasted realm of Aurilia remained under the iron fist of the Protector Generals..."
LOL!!!
--
James
http://avalon.net/~amorph
Henry Link
Zamboni <theza...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:38D59E8C...@yahoo.com...
> George Christie wrote:
> >
> > Actually I usually use WordPerfect. However I was thinking of
something to
> > just toss out ideas I perhaps haven't thought of. Unlike you I
> > not all knowing.
> >
> Still Microsoft Word. Just copy the error codes and use them for
inspiration:
>
of prosperity..."
>
> [general protection fault]
>
> "And in the 4th Age, after being destroyed by a great earthquake,
the
> blasted realm of Aurilia remained under the iron fist of the
Protector Generals..."
I bow before the presence of greatness.
--
"C'mon, August!"
-Henry
Elwin
Christie" <bad...@netrover.com> wrote:
>Is there a program out there that creates histories of worlds?
>It would be a great program to have. please e-mail me if such a
>thing exists.
Nope, the degree of AI required to write such a thing is just not
available yet. When it is I expect we'll all be out of a job and
running for our lives. However I have seen a few geographic
computer simulations of population growths and migrations.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Nicolson
web site is:
http://www.best.com/~jendave/builder/
This is a cool set of programs, but it only provides the bare outlines of a
history. As has been stated elsewhere, your imagination is the best way to
create a world.
Llorac
> Actually I usually use WordPerfect. However I was thinking of something to
> just toss out ideas I perhaps haven't thought of. Unlike you I suppose I'm
> not all knowing.
It was kinda funny, though. :)
Try http://www.best.com/~jendave/builder/index.html out. I haven't actually used
it,
but it could give you some ideas.
As far as I know, the programs are still in development, and the programmer
likes
feedback.
Good luck.
- Don
Dave Harper
<shaezyra...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>In article <rscB4.35937$Jz3.3...@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "George
>Christie" <bad...@netrover.com> wrote:
>>Is there a program out there that creates histories of worlds?
>>It would be a great program to have. please e-mail me if such a
>>thing exists.
>
>Nope, the degree of AI required to write such a thing is just not
>available yet. When it is I expect we'll all be out of a job and
>running for our lives. However I have seen a few geographic
>computer simulations of population growths and migrations.
There's a program called Nation Builder that does just this - it shows
the passage of world history from the flowering of civilization and
the spread of technology to war and conflict. Great program. If you
can't find the URL easily, let me know and I'll drag it out of the
wasteland that is my bookmark file.
Unfortunately, the program is limited. It's all pretty abstract
(IMO), you can't design your own maps (AFAIK), influencing the course
of history is very hard, and all of it is seen in a macroscope. You'd
have to make up names, create city names, etc. yourself. However, for
what it's supposed to do, it does a great job. If I actually had
enough time to fool around with it, I'd probably register it and pay
the money just because it has the potential to be quite useful.
My main complaint is that I already have a world, and I want to know
more about its history, given a rough outline - working backwards, so
to speak. (Incidentally, I plan to use a modified game of History Of
The World to do this)
HTH,
Dave
"Cogito ergo non sum puella condimenton":
"I think, therefore I am not a Spice Girl."
(Seen making the rounds on Usenet)
George Christie
nation builder, and the names it comes up with are really quite atrocious.
In any event, I was looking for something a little more detailed then just
smelting and who killed who. What I was interested in was a list of the
most important technological advances and how they influenced history. That
would give me something more to work with then what I have now. Normally
I'd do all the research and take lots of time planning every little detail
out, but I need this world built at least in rough ASAP as it and at least
25 pages of stories set in it are due for my Writers Craft course at the end
of April.
Thanks, and please keep the ideas coming
George Christie
No longer disgusted with this newsgroup :)
Llorac
> Thanks, and please keep the ideas coming
Ya might also check out "alt.games.frp.dnd-util", or even non-dnd utility
sights. Ya might have more luck if ya don't limit yourself to dnd. :)
- Don
Dave Harper
<bad...@netrover.com> wrote:
>Thanks for the help all those who responded kindly to my post. I have tried
>nation builder, and the names it comes up with are really quite atrocious.
>In any event, I was looking for something a little more detailed then just
>smelting and who killed who. What I was interested in was a list of the
>most important technological advances and how they influenced history. That
>would give me something more to work with then what I have now. Normally
>I'd do all the research and take lots of time planning every little detail
>out, but I need this world built at least in rough ASAP as it and at least
>25 pages of stories set in it are due for my Writers Craft course at the end
>of April.
Play a game of Civilization (the computer game). If you're
REALLY interested and have the time to spare, Civ 2 Fantastic Worlds
(included in the cheaper Gold Edition) has a scenario editor, and you
can change the names of everything in advance, so the computer player
is building cities you specified (but not where), and has names like
the Cyrilians and Anorians instead of English and French.
Civilization is chock full of things like dates, especially if
you take a pen and paper and write down the dates of battles, too.
If you have a copy of Civ II MGE, I've been working on
something similar for my own game world (not for history building,
although I suppose it could do that, too) which you're welcome to
plunder. Different tech tree, magic, different units, different
(stolen) graphics, all meant for a mild-fantasy humanocentric game
starting from the copper age going to the renaissance.
A preferred program for history building is _History Of The
World_ which can be bought cheaply in the discard pile these days; I
paid roughly $10 US for my copy. It's main flaw is that it can't be
modified - it's a map of the world. But it's a fantastic tool to show
how historic cultures developed, flourished, spread, and then
crumbled. It's especially fun because you DO get the (rare) event of
an advanced culture (say, middle ages) coming across a copper age
remnant of an empire somewhere deep in the mountains. When you have
all 7 players running, it goes almost -exactly- like the real world's
history (until the last turn, which is...weird). It would be easy
enough to write up the history (you can go back and view it in the
computer game, which helps) and then change all the names to
appropriate places in your own world, knowing that the focus of
civilization is going to be first in the middle east, then the
Mediterranean and China...if you know what you want to happen in your
world (like I do in mine) you can backtrack, so to speak.
Nicolson
George Christie wrote:
> Thanks for the help all those who responded kindly to my post. I have tried
> nation builder, and the names it comes up with are really quite atrocious.
You can create your own namelist in this program. However, you're right, this
program does create only a bare outline for you to flesh in. Good luck with your
search, & let us know if you find the progam of your dreams - some of us might
be interested too.
Yellow Dreamer
wrote:
>There's a program called Nation Builder that does just this - it shows
>the passage of world history from the flowering of civilization and
>the spread of technology to war and conflict. Great program.
Wasn't it written by Sid Meier and called "Civilisation"? ;)
Kraig
George Christie wrote:
[snip all but quote relevant to my response]
> In any event, I was looking for something a little more detailed then just
> smelting and who killed who. What I was interested in was a list of the
> most important technological advances and how they influenced history.
I made a list years ago for a civ game idea that I was contemplating but never
went forward with. These were some of my ideas. The game Civilization and the
Technology chart in GURPS inspired a lot of these ideas.
ADVANCEMENTS
TECHNOLOGICAL (applied knowledge)
includes all units and what they make
Stages:
(0) Paleo-Neolithic to Meso-lithic
(1) Neolithic (agricultural revolution)
(2) Chalcolithic & Bronze
(3) Ancient (Iron Age)
(4) Classical
(5) Arabic Renaissance
(6) Medieval, Renaissance
(7) Early Industrial
(8) Late Industrial
Fusion Age
Ultra-Tech
* stone-knapping
* hunting
* bow & arrow
* fire
* wheel and axle
* fermentation
* horseback riding
* horsemanship
* chariot-making
* animal domestication
* crop domestication
* irrigation
* pottery
* cement
* writing [alphabetic, syllabary, characters]
* coin-making
* seafaring
* stargazing
* astronomy
* alchemy
* chemistry
* copper & bronze metallurgy
* iron metallurgy
* steel metallurgy
* stone-cutting
* stirrup
* genetic engineering
* nuclear fusion
* nuclear fission
* rocketry
* multi-stage rocketry
* classical arch
* gothic arch
* pillar
* pillar & lintel
* flying buttress
* reinforced concrete/skyscraper
* plumbing
* computer
* radio
* radar
* sonar
* submarine
* crop rotation
* herbalism
* pharmaceuticals
* combustion engine
* steam engine
* railroad
* microscope
* combine harvester
* automobile
* road-making
* bridge-making
* mass production [factory?]
* electronics
* telegraph
* telephone
* pole-arm [sarissa, phalanx, etc]
* electrical power
* solar power
* turbine power
* photography
* fusion space propulsion
* faster-than-light propulsion
* nanotech
* surgery
* dirigible
* airplane
* helicopter
* laser
* microwave communications
* microwave oven
* plasma weaponry
* artificial intelligence
* android
* robotics
* orbital satellite
* nuclear missile
* gun powder
* armor
* artillery
* papyrus
* stone tablets
* paper-making
* printing press
* typewriter
* coinage
* codex books
* scroll-making
* timepiece making
* navigation
* hydroponics
SOCIAL, INTELLECTUAL & CULTURAL (ideas & social practices)
includes all worldviews and government types
* cremation
* inhumation
* animal sacrifice
* human sacrifice
* repugnance towards human sacrifice
* division of labor
* kingship
* animism
* monotheism
* mystery cult
* capitalism
* socialism
* slavery
* written law
* rule of law
* human equality
* separation of powers
* scientific method
* philosophy
* genetic theory of hereditary
* theory of gravity
* usury
* germ theory
* organized warfare
* civil service
* aristocracy
* quantity of pi
* geometry
* quantum physics
* physics
* calculus
* arithmetic
* algebra
* oral tradition
* chivalric code
* resident ambassadors
* heraldry [use of heralds, use of heraldic devices]
* trial by jury
* athletic games
* gladiatorial spectacle
ARTISTIC & LITERARY (NF Stuff)
* oral poetry
* music
* polyphonic music
* symphonic orchestra
* graphic representation
* perspective depiction
* poetry
* the epic tale
* theatrical drama
* theatrical tragedy
* theatrical comedy
* stringed musical instruments
* percussion muscial instruments
* history
* chronicle
* belle-lettre
* the novel
* rhetoric
* Romanticism
* Idealistic Art
* Realistic Art
* Fantastic/Baroque Art
* Geometric Designs
* Stream of Consciousness
* ‘Surprise Ending’
* Complex Plotting
* Gourmet Cuisine
* Theme
* Leitmotific Music
* Cubism
* Abstract Art
* Miracle Play
* Mystery Novel
* Satire
* Melodrama
* Conception of ‘Personality’
*
As far as how they influenced history, that would be a much longer file. I know
the stirrup changed mounted warfare, swords/polearms went back and forth in
predominance throughout history up to the ascendancy of gunpowder. Before
gunpowder, the mounted nomads of the steppes would periodically storm down upon
the settled portions of the world and wreak havoc. Gunpowder ensured the
primacy of settled [and industrialized] cultures. Evidence suggests that human
sacrifice was widespread among many cultures at least until they arrived at
their early bronze age. What kind of gods [ie religion] and how they conceive
god(s) is very significant. Also, the role that priests play in their society
is very significant. In Egypt, priests were very powerful and pharaoh was
essentially a priest-king. Contrast with Greece where priests played a much
less powerful role. The state of literacy is also important. Even the writing
system has a great effect on a culture. An alphabet or syllabary can
'democratize' writing so that more people may potentially become literate, while
a character [Chinese] or hieroglyphic [Egyptian] system requires extensive
training and limits the number of potentially literate--thus creating the need
for a scribal class.
The nature of the culture's social structure shouldn't be overlooked. Here
are some things I have gleaned about ancient Indo-European culture. They are
drawn from several sources which unfortunately I am not able to document right
now, including books and the internet. Other earth civilizations: African,
Semitic, East Asian, American, Polynesian, and so forth, have their own cultural
baggage as well.
• horse-drawn Chariots: wheel, axle, yoke, horse, foal
• animals pastured separately with specialized herdsmen
• Nomadic or semi-nomadic—shepherders
• patriarchal, patrilineal, patrilocal
• male sky god of war and weather was the chief god.
• mountainous homeland with water and trees, salmon
• warlike, spears, bows and arrows
• agricultural—words for farming implements—wheat, flax, barley
• trees: mountain oak, birch, beech, hornbeam, ash, willow, white willow, yew,
pine/fir, heather, and moss.
• animals: leopard, snow leopard, lion, monkey, elephant, bull
• IE words for ‘man,’ like Semitic, identify him with the earth
• exogamic [marry outside of one's group], highly organized clannic, social
hierarchy, warrior class.
• no tradition of building temples, cf. Kurgan. [Old European Civs built
temples]
• warfare placed higher value on sons
• great IE families probably practiced fosterage, maternal grandfather, maternal
uncle [letting relatives raise one's children]
• chief shepherd is the leader in war
• formulaic oath, swear by something, breaking oath is to invoke curse of gods
• property in the form of livestock, land, or treasure
• gifts by contractual obligation, reciprocity, laws of hospitality
• banquet occasioned a sacrifice to the gods
• castes of royalty, priests, warriors, and farmers (commoners).
• "father" has universal, religious meaning
• "brother" means fellow in a clan, institutional brother
• physical integrity has a pronounced religious value
• words for ‘whole,’ ‘holy,’ ‘sacrosanct’—but none for ‘religion.’
• killing member of one’s own group is murder, of another is not
• aspects of PIE: a distinct and common word stock; a high degree of inflection;
eight cases of nouns, adjective and pronouns; a variable accent based upon both
pitch (tone) and stress (loudness); and an O-V (object preceding the verb) word
order.
• priests not as important in western IE [cf. Greeks, Germanics]. Some
influences may have come from pre-IE civs. Celtic Druids from Afro-Asiatic,
Romans from Etruscans, Asiatic IE from ancient pre-IE civs (Persia, India).
• Celts, Germanics, Scythians: head-hunting, using skull of enemy as drinking
bowl
• Upper Class Scythians were 6ft+ [archeological evidence]
• by at least 3,000 BC, using bronze metallurgy.
Hope this helps!!!