Critical Hits
bly...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
damage with weapons. I mean like when a PC or for that matter a NPC
rolls a natural 20 to hit. Do any of you DM's out there give bonus
damage? If so, in what ways do you penalize the character if they
roll extremely bad to even it all out?
My curiosity arose when I examined the wild mage class and questioned
if a spell's power can be altered by a die roll, then why not allow
the other classes to have similar special cases.
--
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MICHAEL RONN MARCELAIS
|> I was wondering about the implemented ways of afflicting critical
|> damage with weapons. I mean like when a PC or for that matter a NPC
|> rolls a natural 20 to hit. Do any of you DM's out there give bonus
|> damage? If so, in what ways do you penalize the character if they
|> roll extremely bad to even it all out?
|> My curiosity arose when I examined the wild mage class and questioned
|> if a spell's power can be altered by a die roll, then why not allow
|> the other classes to have similar special cases.
|> --
Most DMs that use 'critical hits' use the following system:
20> Double damage on the hit
1> Roll another d20 that determins if you hit yourself, another party
member, or throw your weapon away. Small chance for double damage against
friendly or yourself. (NOTE: Cannot hit yourself with a missile weapon.)
|> ________________________________________________________________________________
|>
|> 2fto...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Garrett Arch Blythe
[...superfulous sig removed...]
|> ________________________________________________________________________________
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Chuck Turner
>I was wondering about the implemented ways of afflicting critical
>damage with weapons. I mean like when a PC or for that matter a NPC
>rolls a natural 20 to hit. Do any of you DM's out there give bonus
>damage? If so, in what ways do you penalize the character if they
>roll extremely bad to even it all out?
>My curiosity arose when I examined the wild mage class and questioned
>if a spell's power can be altered by a die roll, then why not allow
>the other classes to have similar special cases.
>--
The mates and I are all DMs, each with a campaign underway. With the
exception of one person, we all use the same crit hit/crit miss tables
for combat (the odd man out is using a new system that is also working
quite well).
Here are the tables that we use...
CRITICAL HITS:
D% Location Table
---------------------------------
01-15 Head Table
16-50 Torso Table
51-75 Leg Table (odd roll = right leg; even roll = left leg)
76-00 Arm Table (odd roll = right leg; even roll = left leg)
HEAD TABLE:
D% Location Damage Mod
--------------------------------------------------------
01-05 Skull/Brain Death or x4 (saving throw determines)
06-20 Skull x2 (*~)
21-35 Eyes/Nose x3 (~)
26-55 Mouth/Jaw x2 (~)
56-00 Glancing Blow normal
TORSO TABLE:
D% Location Damage Mod
--------------------------------------------------------
01-11 Shoulder Glance normal
12-16 Shoulder Socket x2
17-21 Shoulder x3
22-26 Torso Glance normal
27 Neck x3 (*~)
28-33 Rib/Lung x2
34-42 Lung x2 (*)
43 Heart x4 (**)
44-49 Rib/Liver x2
50-51 Liver x3 (*)
52-53 Rib/Stomach x2
54-57 Stomach x3 (*)
58-61 Stomach/Liver x3 (*)
62-65 Stomach/Spleen x3 (*)
66-68 Liver/Kidney x3 (*)
69-73 Spine/Liver x3 (*~)
74-79 Intestines x3 (*)
80-85 Spine/Intestines x3 (*~)
86 Spine x4 (*~)
87-93 Pelvis/Groin x2 (*)
94-00 Hip Socket x2
LEG TABLE
D% Location Damage Mod
--------------------------------------------------------
01-10 Glancing Blow normal
11-35 Flesh Wound x2
36-55 Flesh/Bone x3 (*)
56-70 Knee x2
71-85 Shin x2
86-00 Ankle/Foot x2
ARM TABLE
D% Location Damage Mod
--------------------------------------------------------
01-15 Glancing Blow normal
16-35 Upper Arm - Flesh x2
36-50 Upper Arm - Bone x2
51-70 Forearm - Flesh x2
71-85 Forearm - Bone x2
86-00 Wrist/Hand x2
Symbols: * Bleeder. The person/creature hit suffers 1 hit point loss per
round per bleeder until stopped by a successful
healing proficiency check, or magical healing.
NOTE: one proficiency check or one spell is necessary
for EACH bleeder suffered during combat.
~ Stunned. The person/creature hit is stunned for D8 + 2 rounds
and suffers a -2 penalty to ALL actions. Any further
critical hit that indicates this effect means that
the person/creature is incapacitated for D8 + 2 rounds.
BONUS CRITICAL:
If a further percentile roll is less than 20% + total damage done in the
attack, a roll is made on the following table.
D8 Effect
---------------------------
1 - 3 Bleeder 1/rnd (in addition to any automatic bleeders)
4 - 5 Break/Tear/Sprain (with logical results)
6 - 7 Knockback 5"/10hp damage (prone target until victim gets up)
8 Roll Twice (disregard if this is rolled again)
I'll give one example of all this.
Faether (wielding a longsword - specialized; STR 17) attacks an ettin. He
rolls a natural 20, so rolls two percentile rolls. The first is 45, which
indicates a hit to the torso; the second is an 83, which indicates a hit
to the Spine/Intestines area. Faether then rolls his damage and gets an
8 on D12. He triples this to get 24, then adds his strength and specialization
bonuses for a total of 27 (If the sword was magical, any pluses would be
added now too). The ettin takes 27 points of damage, gains a bleeder that
will reduce him by 1/rnd, and is stunned for D8+2 rnds. Faether now rolls
percentile dice again, trying to get less than 47% for the Bonus Critical.
He rolls 12, and on a D8 rolls 5. In this case, the DM would decide whether
the ettin's spine was broken, or his intestines torn, the logical results of
each occurence then being applied.
This may seem a little extreme to some people, but remember, the same thing
can happen to the PCs (grin). I've had a 12th level fighter killed by an orc
who got lucky and broke my neck.
CRITICAL MISSES (to be determined on any natural roll of 1 on D20)
CRITICAL MISS TABLE: TRIP/FALL TABLE:
D8 Table D6 Result
---------------------------- ------------------------------
1 Trip/Fall 1 DEX check + 2 or trip
2 Drop/Throw 2 DEX check or trip
3 Obstruction 1 3 DEX check - 2 or trip
4 Obstruction 2 4 trip (prone)
5 Obstruction 3 5 trip (stunned for D4 rnds)
6 Obstruction 4 6 trip (stunned for D4 rnds +
7 Break Weapon D6 hit points damage)
8 Roll Twice (ignore any
further rolls of 8)
DROP/THROW TABLE: OBSTRUCTION 1 TABLE
D6 Result D6 Result
---------------------------- ------------------------------
1 DEX check + 2 or drop item 1 Minor Distraction (-2 to hit)
2 DEX check or drop item 2 Major Distraction (-4 to hit)
3 DEX check + 2 or throw item 3 Complete Distraction (lose all
3D20' attacks next round)
4 DEX check or throw item 4 Hesitation (+2 Speed Factor)
2D20' 5 Hesitation (+4 Speed Factor)
5 Drop item 6 Hesitation (attack last next
6 Throw item 3D20' round)
OBSTRUCTION 2 TABLE: OBSTRUCTION 3 TABLE:
D6 Result D6 Result
----------------------------- --------------------------------
1 Hit Other x2 (foe) 1 STR check + 2 or lodge weapon
2 Hit Other x2 (friend) 2 STR check or lodge weapon
3 Hit Other x1/2 (foe) 3 STR check - 2 or lodge weapon
4 Hit Other x1/2 (friend) 4 Lodge Weapon
5 Hit Other norm (foe) 5 Open Defence (+2 AC)
6 Hit Other norm (friend) 6 Open Defence (+4 AC)
OBSTRUCTION 4 TABLE BREAK ITEM TABLE:
D6 Result D6 Result
----------------------------- ---------------------------------
1 DEX check + 2 or hit self 1 DEX check or save vs normal blow
1/2 damage 2 DEX check - 2 or save vs normal
2 DEX check or hit self 1/2 blow
damage 3 save vs normal blow
3 Hit self 1/2 damage 4 save vs crushing blow
4 Hit self normal damage 5 save vs crushing blow -2
5 Overextension (-2 to hit 6 save vs disintigration
for D3 rnds)
6 Overextension (-4 to hit
for D6 rnds)
NOTES: - Ability checks require the PC or NPC to roll less than his or her
applicable stat on D20, with the modifiers given.
- Any trip gives any attacker who strikes the person AFTER this point in
the combat round a +2 to hit bonus (simultaneous attacks are not
affected). Prone gives a +4 to hit bonus.
- Dropped items may be picked up next round with a +1 modifier to
initiative. Thrown items may be picked up with an initiative modifier
of 1 + 1/5'.
- Any breakable item that is dropped must save vs normal blow. Any
breakable item that is thrown must save vs crushing blow.
- Distractions can be anything, and may be roll-played by the DM and
players. It may be an absurd action done by another combatant, or
simple the person's cloak swirling about his head. In any case,
the to hit modifiers apply to attacks the next round.
- Hesitation can be played the same way, but results in a slower
initiative, rather than a lesser chance to hit.
- Hit other means that someone other than your intended target was
hit. If another foe is indicated, but none exists, then a friend
is hit. Likewise, if a friend is indicated, and none is possible,
then another foe is hit. If it is impossible to hit either another
foe, or another friend, no one is hit.
- If a friend is struck, you may pull the blow, so that strength
bonuses, and specialization bonuses do not apply. Magical bonuses
DO apply.
- Lodged weapons become stuck in something...a crack in the stonework;
a tree, a corpse, anything. It will require an open doors roll to
remove the weapon, and this will add +2 to initiative in the next
combat round.
- open defense means that you are out of position to protect yourself
adequately for the rest of this round (or the next round, if you
attacked last).
- Hit self will require some common sense. Many weapons will not allow
for self-inflicted wounds (bow, fists, etc). In this case, the damage
must be attributed to something else, up to the DMs discretion.
- Overextension means that the person pulled something, and is unable
to attack efficiently until the pain has been overcome.
- all saving throws are made on the item saving throw chart using the
most applicable material (the string on a bow is more likely to
break than the wood, etc).
- No matter what the outcome of rolling on these charts, the PC or NPC
loses ALL further attacks this round.
Hope this stuff is all informative and useful. It may look like a lot, but
with some photoreducing, it all fits onto one page, with enough room left over
for a nifty little picture. Once you are used to it, it takes no time at all,
and adds some variety to battle.
Chuck (Curan of WhiteSands)
_______________________________________
| | '..err..of course I suck blood.'
| "--whether you are quiet and ALIVE or | 'I don't believe you.'
| quiet and DEAD makes no difference to | 'I've got a straw right here PAL!
| Cerebus." | You want a demonstration?!'
| - Cerebus the Aardvark | - The Tick
|_______________________________________| Chuck Turner -> laz...@ug.cs.dal.ca
Lutz Hofmann
Xd&d.
On a roll of a natural 1: miss
On a roll of a natural 20: roll 1d4
1: 1x damage
2: 2x damage
3: 3x damage
4: 1x damage
Yours Sincerely Lutz Hofmann
l...@cs.tu-berlin.de
--
Ob. Disc: Dies ist kein Flame. --- This is no flame.
kje...@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov
>damage with weapons.
I strongly recommend that you do NOT implement critical hits or fumbles
in your game. We've been over this several times already, but I'll
reiterate.
Since more monsters swing at PC's than vice versa, there's more chance
for PC's to be injured by this rule. Since monsters rarely swing very
valuable weapons, it matters less to them if they drop their weapons
than it does to PC's. In short, critical hits and fumbles penalize
player characters MUCH more than they do monsters. It's just a matter
of the numbers.
For example, 10 kobolds attack a party of four armored first level
fighters (AD&D1 rules). We can expect the fighters to win without
suffering more than one person falling unconcious. Add critical hits
and run the battle a few times. The kobolds win 2 times out of 5. The
proof is left as an exercise in your favorite programming language.
(The odds change greatly with AD&D2 or Unearthed Arcana rules due to
weapon specialization [fighters always win]. The odds change again if
you add weapon vs. armor type adjustments [fighters win]. I highly
recommend this method of rules validation for any DM contemplating a
change in basic combat rules.)
While we're talking about our friends, the kobolds, what happens when
your fighter has AC -2? The little lizards need a 20 to hit the guy.
Does that mean they always do double damage? And you think that's fair
and proper?
If you implement critical hits and fumbles in your game, you are
doing a disservice to the player characters.
-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
kje...@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368
"Orcs dwell in places where sunlight is dim or non-existent,
for they hate the light.
-- AD&D Monster Manual 1, p. 76.
Sea Wasp
To get a critical hit under our system, you first have to
have rolled a 20 to hit. Then:
1) If the number you needed to hit the target was 10 or under,
you have made a critical hit. Double damage and roll on the critical
chart (from the Arduin Grimoire -- Volume I for armed combat, volume
II for unarmed).
2) If you needed more than 10 to hit, roll again. If you
roll well enough to hit the target, then you got a critical hit,
otherwise it was a normal hit.
3) If you needed to roll 20 to hit, you would need to roll 2 20's
for double damage and over 18 to allow the additional crit chart
roll. (i.e., if you needed to roll 20 to hit, only something like
20-20-19 would allow you double damage and crit chart. 20-20-17
would only get double damage.
Sea Wasp
The Grim Reaper
>In article <1992Oct3.2...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> bly...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>>I was wondering about the implemented ways of afflicting critical
>>damage with weapons.
>
>I strongly recommend that you do NOT implement critical hits or fumbles
>in your game. We've been over this several times already, but I'll
>reiterate.
>
>Since more monsters swing at PC's than vice versa, there's more chance
>for PC's to be injured by this rule. Since monsters rarely swing very
>
>If you implement critical hits and fumbles in your game, you are
>doing a disservice to the player characters.
>
>-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
> kje...@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368
>
> "Orcs dwell in places where sunlight is dim or non-existent,
> for they hate the light.
> -- AD&D Monster Manual 1, p. 76.
has occured that is dependent on level. Fighter have a chance to
critical of 10% per level, rogues have a chance equal to 7%/level,
priests 5%/level, and mages 3%/level. The player must
roll under that percent to achieve a critical when they roll a 20.
If they roll over that percent, the attack is treated as normal. If they roll
under, use your favorite critical tables. This chance is also the chance
not to fumble on a roll of one. Notice that chances for rogues and fighters
can exceed 100%. If a percent exceeds 100%, the amount by which it is more
than 100% is the chance to critical on a roll of 19. Notes-
There is a max chance not to fumble of 95%. There is a max chance to
critical of 95%. There is a minimum chance to critical of 5%.
If the chance not to fumble is made, the attack does minimum possible
damage. (ie a long sword does one point +magic, strength, etc).
--------------------+-------------------------+
HIC IACET ARTVRVS + The Grim Reaper +
IN INSVLA AVALONIA + SCY...@U.WASHINGTON.EDU +
REX QVONDAM REXQVE + ----------------------- +
FVTVRVS + +
--------------------+-------------------------+
Chuck Turner
>>I was wondering about the implemented ways of afflicting critical
>>damage with weapons.
>I strongly recommend that you do NOT implement critical hits or fumbles
>in your game. We've been over this several times already, but I'll
>reiterate.
[reiteration + example deleted]
I have to disagree. I think that players have it too soft as it is. Most of
this is my fault, and I freely admit. I hate to kill off players, and so I
often fudge things in their favour a bit. But with a crit system in place,
it is possible to fight my own tendencies to be lenient. Besides that, it
adds a bit of description to the combat, and allows for truly heroic battles.
>While we're talking about our friends, the kobolds, what happens when
>your fighter has AC -2? The little lizards need a 20 to hit the guy.
>Does that mean they always do double damage? And you think that's fair
>and proper?
To hit a fighter with an AC of -2, the kobold would need a modified die
roll of 22 on D20. 20, however ALWAYS hits. But, we cannot let the little
critter do a crit hit every time, no matter how incredible it is that he
hit in the first place. This is how our group handles it. If you need a 19 or
less on D20 to strike a creature, then a 20 will give you a 100% chance of
doing a critical hit. If you need a 20 or more on D20 to strike your
opponent, then your chance of doing a crit is 100-(20*(needed to hit - 19)).
In this example, the kobold would have a 40% chance of doing a crit. This
is reasonable, as it is a near miracle that the brute hit in the first place.
>If you implement critical hits and fumbles in your game, you are
>doing a disservice to the player characters.
In my previous post, in which I presented the tables that we use, I mentioned
that one of our group is experimenting with another crit hit system. I'll
state it simple now to present another idea.
When you roll to hit, you roll a D20 AND and D10. The D20 is the same as
always, but a 20 does not mean a crit hit. A roll of a 1 on the D10 signifies
a critical. The chance of doing a critical is less than using the straight
natural 20 system, but improves as your character does (being based on whether
you actually hit or not). At very high levels, your chance of doing a crit
will be better using this system than using the natural 20 system, but only
against creatures with low AC.
Once you've determined that you've done a critical, you roll D10 again. This
time, instead of rolling a 1, you must roll a 1 or a 2. If you succeed, roll
again, but with the intent of rolling a 1, 2 or a 3. This progression continues
until you fail, or until the progression runs its course. If the latter is
the case, the opponent is killed instantly (in a most spectacular fashion).
If, as is more likely, the progression fails, you multiply the weapon's max
damage (before any STR, specialization, or magical bonuses) by the number of
crits done. To this, you add a normal rolled damage for the weapon, plus all
bonuses.
Ex. Faether (with his bastard sword - specialized, STR 17) strikes at a spirit
naga. Faether succeeds in his attack, and rolls a 1 on D10. He rolls again,
and gets another 1 on D10. His third roll, however, he gets a 7. This means
that he has scored a double crit. His bastard sword does 2D8 against large
creatures, and he rolls an 11. So, his total damage in this critical hit is
32 (2 x max damage) + 11 (normal hit) + 3 (strength and specialization bonus)
for a total of 46hp damage. Quite a prodigious hit! More than likely to do
more than half of the naga's total.
But, the chance of rolling a crit, let alone a double or better crit, is lower
than under most systems. In the six months that we've been using this system,
my priest (a templar) has done no more than 10 crits, of which 2 have been
triple crits, one a double, and the rest single (the fact that the two triple
crits were in the same round did not impress the DM =.] )
>-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
> kje...@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368
Jorge Diaz
>Okay.... in my campaign, I use a system for determining if a critical
>has occured that is dependent on level. Fighter have a chance to
>critical of 10% per level, rogues have a chance equal to 7%/level,
>priests 5%/level, and mages 3%/level. The player must
>roll under that percent to achieve a critical when they roll a 20.
Why would you give a rogue a better chance to roll a critical hit than
a priest? Preists are supposed to be better fighters than rogues.
--
Jorge Diaz | "I want you to remember, Clark... in all
Georgia Institute of Technology | the years to come, in your most private
Office of Information Technology | moments...my hand at your throat. I want
cco...@prism.gatech.edu | you to remember the one man who beat you."
The Grim Reaper
I do. The standard generic AD&D cleric is based on real history
(sorta) when clerics went into battle with platemail on alongside the
fighters. Only the priests of war have that role in my game. I think
thieves should receive a higher thac0 and more hps than a priest of love,
or art, or craftsmen, or many other things. But even by the rules,
I think thieves are sneakier fighters than clerics, and are
beter able to hit vital spots.
Just MNSHO,
Matthew Charlap
>>>I was wondering about the implemented ways of afflicting critical
>>>damage with weapons.
>always, but a 20 does not mean a crit hit. A roll of a 1 on the D10 signifies
>a critical. The chance of doing a critical is less than using the straight
>natural 20 system, but improves as your character does (being based on whether
That's a very neat way of doing crits. I think I'll run a few trials to
see what happens.
In the Dark Sun campaign I'm playing in, the DM handles crits/fumbles this way:
Natural 20: an excellent attack, player gets a bonus attack, if he gets another
Nat.20, he gets a 3rd attack, and so on. as with other systems, not every 20
is a critical hit, but if you are lucky you can do a lot of damage anyway. In
another campaign, the DM did this method also. My barbarian wielding a +1
battle axe got 4 natural 20s in a row! and the 5th attack was a 19. I rolled
the damage (5d8+5(magic)+15(strength)), I rolled on the d8's a 35, doing 55
points of damage! granted, there was only a one in 480,000 chance of getting
this (20*20*20*20*3, he had about a 1-in-3 chance to hit this guy) but it made
for a neat move.
For fumbles, the DM in the DS campaign does this:
DM rolls a d4 for severity:
1- minimum severity- nothing or weapon dropped
2,3- normal severity- weapon dropped, possibly hit self/companion, or strain
muscle/dislocate weapon arm (or jaw on a thri-kreen bite)
4- Maximum severity- hit self, possibly broke a bone, and anything else desired
at the time.
The d4 roll is made secretly, so I am only guessing the exact method here. He
may have told us at one time, but I forget.
He also uses this method for handling natural 20s on psionic abilities:
1-no effect
2,3- similar to psionicist's handbook result
4- anything from backfire to ?????
Jordan M. Wolbrum
If a natural 20 is rolled, and a natural 19 or less would hit, the
attack does 2X damage. Everything is doubled except poison and
spells/psionics.
Example:
Runeweaver attacks a kobold with his +1 dagger, and rolls a nat. 20. He
has a 17 strength. He has previously cast shocking grasp on his
weapon. On the damage die he rolls a 4, resulting in (4+1str+1mag)*2,
or 12 points of damage, plus spell damage.
Example 2:
The kobold's brother swings at Runeweaver, who has Bracers AC 0 and a 15
Dex(AC -1), and rolls a 20. He is using a short sword and rolls a 5.
Runeweaver takes 5 points of damage.(The kobold was not skilled enough
to get a critical hit).
Fumbles:
Generally, fumbles do not occur in my campaign. The characters are
skilled, but more than that, they are luckier than average folks. But,
if a character uses a poorly crafted weapon, it breaks on a nat. 1.
Also, two consecutive nat. 1's usually mean something bad happens(hit a
friend, drop weapon, etc. based on what will enhance play).
Example 3:
Runeweaver is now facing a green dragon, and has exhausted his spells.
He prepares his sling and rolls a natural 1. Miss! The dragon
continues attacking the other party members. In the second round,
Runeweaver tries again, and rolls another 1. The sling bullet now hits
the party cleric, disrupting his spell.
I use this system because it is relatively simple, and doesn't require
rolling on a table.
Jordan M. Wolbrum
at jw...@andrew.cmu.edu
Jorge Diaz
>But even by the rules,
>I think thieves are sneakier fighters than clerics, and are
>beter able to hit vital spots.
A thief might be able to hit the vital spots, but this is only if he's
attacking from behind, in which case it's been taken care of with the
backstab multiplier.
But in a stand-up fight, a cleric would waste a thief. Better armor,
more hit points, better THAC0. In a head-on fight, the cleric should
have the better chance to roll a critical hit because he's the better
fighter.
Now, a question: I'm thinking about running a thief in a campaign that
a friend of mine is going to be starting. What happens when a thief rolls
a critical hit on a backstab? Let's say he's 5th level, so he does 3x damage.
If you use the "critical hit results in 2x damage" rule, what would you
get? I can think of three possibilities:
1) Double (for CH) the triple damage (for BS) to get 6x damage.
2) Just add one more multiplier to the triple damage to get 4x damage.
3) Rule that a backstab is an automatic critical hit (which is why you
get 3x damage) and don't add anthing: 3x damage.
Is there a 'cannonical' ruling? If not, what is the most commonly used?
z_co...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
> In article <1992Oct4.2...@u.washington.edu> scy...@byron.u.washington.edu (The Grim Reaper) writes:
>
>>Okay.... in my campaign, I use a system for determining if a critical
>>has occured that is dependent on level. Fighter have a chance to
>>critical of 10% per level, rogues have a chance equal to 7%/level,
>>priests 5%/level, and mages 3%/level. The player must
>>roll under that percent to achieve a critical when they roll a 20.
>
> Why would you give a rogue a better chance to roll a critical hit than
> a priest? Preists are supposed to be better fighters than rogues.
>
Also, an easier way would be just to have the character make a d20
roll, and if that hits, then its a critical. I used to use a real weird 1d8
'approximation' roll, but picked up the 'roll the d20 again' from a discussion
on ADND-L last year.
Brandon Cope
Terry Tao
|>
|> >Okay.... in my campaign, I use a system for determining if a critical
|> >has occured that is dependent on level. Fighter have a chance to
|> >critical of 10% per level, rogues have a chance equal to 7%/level,
|> >priests 5%/level, and mages 3%/level. The player must
|> >roll under that percent to achieve a critical when they roll a 20.
|>
|> Why would you give a rogue a better chance to roll a critical hit than
|> a priest? Preists are supposed to be better fighters than rogues.
|>
|>
|> --
|> Jorge Diaz | "I want you to remember, Clark... in all
Priests may be better hand-to-hand fighters, but rogues are better at backstabbing
and hitting all these sensitive areas.
Dexterity and strength may make small adjustments to the critical hit roll as
well. But definitely small.
Also, to add flavor, you can have "almost criticals", e.g. roll over the amount
needed to critical, but less than double the amount. Thus you can rip a long
strip of flesh off an arm, for example. This may have no added combat advantage
(except maybe an initiative penalty in the next round or something), but can make
a battle a bit more interesting. Also, being hit with an almost critical can lead
to some impressive scars.
Terry
LRPR000
option in the ADD2 PHB. This means that when an attack roll is a
20, not only does it automatically hit, it has a chance of being
critical. Another attack is immediately made, and if it hits, the
hit does twice the BASE damage for the weapon, plus the usual
strength, specialization and magic bonuses ONCE. I have allowed my
players to argue with me that the bonus for a prayer should be added
twice. If a 20 is rolled the second time, you may try for triple
base damage, etc. Note that certain monsters which roll criticals
should have a base + strength value assigned to their attack (for
example, I consider 2 points of a troll's damage to be strength
based). If the extra roll was a miss, it's just a normal hit. This
tends to favor those with a high thac0, such as 10th level fighters
(and Frost Giants!). I feel that it adds a heroic touch. We have had
7th level fighters killed in one lucky blow by a fire giant. We
have also had the entire party saved by a single blow from a
2-handed sword finishing off a dragon which was about to kill
several party members with a breath weapon in the next round... We
also have a critical fumble system: If you roll a 1, you roll a d6
and if your thac0 is such that a 1 would have hit (if 1's weren't
ALWAYS misses) you can add the amount the 1 was over your number to
hit. If the result is 6 or more, it's a clean miss (whew!). If not,
the following table applies to the unmodified roll: 1 - weapon must
save VS. crushing blow; fail=break; save=-2 hit&dmg magic weapon -
wielder makes worse of strength or dex check to hold it and loses
next attack. 2 - weapon must save vs. crushing blow; fail=-2
hit&dmg; save=OK magic weapon - wielder makes better of strength or
dex check to hold it and lose an attack; or tries for worse of the 2
and still gets next attack. 3 - 50% weapon stuck (if anything to
stick in - e.g. bunkbed post, table, etc. - requires 1 round and a
strength check to pull free). If nothing to stick in (or blunt weapon)
or other 50% in any case - weapon dropped (no save) and flies D12
feet away in random direction. 4 - Wielder is off-balance and loses
their next attack to recover balance. Anyone striking at them
between the 2 attacks is +2 to hit, and the wielder loses the better
of their dex or shield bonus. 5 - Wielder is off balance until their
next attack - no attack is lost, but anyone strking before their
next initiative will get +2 to hit, and they lose the better of
their dex or shield bonus. All this tends to make life a little
more interesting - PC's swords go flying (sometimes over cliff
edges!); the +3 broadsword is stuck in a table, and you really wish
you hadn't lent your other magic weapon to your buddy as the wight
slashes at you; normal swords break; you try to recover your balance
with that 2-hander but the ogre lands a telling blow... I don't
think the system is too unfair to PC's - with their plethora of
magical weapons, specialization bonuses, strengths, assisting spells,
etc., they usually far outclass the opposition in melee anyway.
I also use the charts from 1st edition for weapon modifiers; it
helps a little when the orcs can use halberds, and get a +1 to hit
vs. the PC's platemail. Of course, the PC's can go right ahead and
do the same to the evil 15th level fighter lord they must defeat -
but life's like that. I also implement a rule that after 40 rds of
strenuous activity (like melee) the character must make a CON check
or be exhausted, with -2 on all die rolls and ability scores,
checked again in 20 more rounds, then 10, then every 5. This arose
when PC's were holding a pass against a horde of orcs - I don't
think you can stand there swinging a sword FOREVER...
I am interested to know if anyone uses the fighting maneuvers
detailed in Dragon Magazine, such as Feints, Parries, Dodges, etc.
- I find them invaluable in making fighters more unique, and
allowing those undervalued rogues to pull of tricksy maneuvers.
'fraid I can't remember the issue right off; had a sea monster
upsetting a boat on the cover...
My $.02 worth, anyway.
JubbaBones
Fredericton, N.B.
Canada.
kje...@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov
with, and I have one question: Why do you WANT to add critical
hits/fumbles to AD&D?
- To "patch" the AD&D combat system "to add realism"
- To add danger (and one DM admitted that he was insufficiently
imaginative to come up with a decent challenge otherwise)
- To add excitement -- you never know when an orc will kill a 12th level
fighter in one-on-one combat. It could happen any time.
- To add "realism" (I hope everybody laughs at that one)
The only good thing about the AD&D combat system is that it's simple
(compared to Runequest or GURPS or ARMS Law or...). It isn't
realistic, it isn't very imaginative, it isn't gory. But it's the
lingua franca of the fantasy role playing world. I can go into any
college dorm and set up my DM screens, put pieces of paper and pencils
around the table, and start a pick-up game with total strangers within
an hour. I don't have to spend hours explaining the combat system, and
combats go quickly, thus leaving time for the REAL purpose of a fantasy
role-playing game: fantasy role playing!
Every one of the crit/fumble systems adds complexity to the game. It
will hurt your fighters. It doesn't add any realism (ask anybody from
the SCA). It does add danger and excitement -- but only to the PC's!
We all knew the monsters would lose in the end. PC's just die faster.
Critical hits/fumbles are only part of the fantasy literature on which
D&D is based as a bad plot device. If Merry and Pippin were in
hand-to-hand combat with a Nozgul, do you honestly think they'd have
ANY chance of winning? I thought not. Not unless the author (read:
the DM) WANTED them to win. (David vs. Goliath was only noteworth
because the expected outcome did NOT happen. Is that the way you
want your games to go?)
I challenge you, nay, I DARE you, as DM's, to play a few games without
your crit/fumble system. I guarantee that you won't miss it. Your
fighters will live longer, they won't throw their hard-won magic
weapons away, and you'll all have more time to do some role-playing.
Isn't that more fun than the old hack-and-slash?
Isn't that the whole point?
-- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office
kje...@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368
"Orcs are cruel and hate living things in general,
but they particularly hate elves and will always
attack them in preference to other creatures."
Greg Booth
>I was wondering about the implemented ways of afflicting critical
>damage with weapons. I mean like when a PC or for that matter a NPC
>rolls a natural 20 to hit. Do any of you DM's out there give bonus
>damage? If so, in what ways do you penalize the character if they
>roll extremely bad to even it all out?
>My curiosity arose when I examined the wild mage class and questioned
>if a spell's power can be altered by a die roll, then why not allow
>the other classes to have similar special cases.
>--
The way we do it is that your chance of doing a critical hit or fumble
is equal to the difference between what you rolled to hit (including
bonuses) and what you needed.
EG you need a 14 to hit, and roll 17 total to hit, you have
a 3% chance of critical hit. Likewise if you need 17, and roll 14
you have a 3% chance of fumble. This avoids the kobold always
criticals problem associated with the 20-means-critical method.
--
Greg Booth BSc | Diligentia-Vis-Celeritas
BCAA-PCDHF-BCWF-NFA-NRA-IPSC-BCFSS | Incolumitas
Motorola Mobile Data Division |
bo...@mdd.comm.mot.com cgb...@email.comm.mot.com
SilverFang Ahroun
>Priests may be better hand-to-hand fighters, but rogues are better at backstabbing
>and hitting all these sensitive areas.
Again, they are betting at doing it with surprise..and remember, backstabs
are a game balance thing. Let's face it, who do you really want taking
a surprise swing at you, a thief or a trained warrior? Think about it.
The only reason they get the backstab is so they aren't totally useless
in combat.
Axly
David Alexandre Golden
>I've read all of these strange, complicated systems people have come up
>with, and I have one question: Why do you WANT to add critical
>hits/fumbles to AD&D?
>
> - To "patch" the AD&D combat system "to add realism"
> - To add danger (and one DM admitted that he was insufficiently
> imaginative to come up with a decent challenge otherwise)
> - To add excitement -- you never know when an orc will kill a 12th level
> fighter in one-on-one combat. It could happen any time.
> - To add "realism" (I hope everybody laughs at that one)
I think the purpose of criticals is NOT to add realism, since the HP system
is unrealistic anyway. The purpose of criticals is to give the characters
a CHANCE to defeat a more powerful foe quickly, or suvive a situation that
otherwise would require DMI. (DM intervention for the uninitiated.) The
ability to strike a truely heroic blow is the ESSENSE of fantasy.
This is not to say that critical hit/miss should be complicated. It should be
as simple as possible, and, ideally, should favor players. Remember that a
DM does not HAVE to give criticals to monsters, even if they DO roll a 20.
Similarly, criticals that do x2 are fine. There is no need to auto-slay.
THe end result is that "lucky" players can occasionally really pull off an
excellent combat, saving the party much grief. Players remember that,
no matter how bad the situation is, maybe, just maybe, they'll roll that 20...
"Moderation in all things"
Dave G
--
David A. Golden '95 (dago...@phoenix.princeton.edu)
Princeton University
Jorge Diaz
Well, I'm not a DM, but I am a player, and I'm glad our DM uses critical
hits (although he doesn't use the tables that people have been posting,
he uses the simple "double damage on a natural 20" method).
>Critical hits/fumbles are only part of the fantasy literature on which
>D&D is based as a bad plot device. If Merry and Pippin were in
>hand-to-hand combat with a Nozgul, do you honestly think they'd have
>ANY chance of winning? I thought not.
No? What about Smaug? You wouldn't call an arrow shot taking down
a dragon a critical hit? Or did this dragon only have 1-8 hit points?
>I challenge you, nay, I DARE you, as DM's, to play a few games without
>your crit/fumble system. I guarantee that you won't miss it. Your
>fighters will live longer, they won't throw their hard-won magic
>weapons away, and you'll all have more time to do some role-playing.
>Isn't that more fun than the old hack-and-slash?
Well, when a bunch of first level characters ran into a troll, and the
only thing that saved us was a critical hit that did double damage,
I was very thankful that our DM used the system. What's wrong with it?
You think it makes more sense for a 7th level fighter to just walk into
a room with 20 orcs and fight them hand to hand, because he knows that
he's invincible?
The Grim Reaper
>In article <1992Oct5.1...@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> kje...@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov writes:
>No? What about Smaug? You wouldn't call an arrow shot taking down
>a dragon a critical hit? Or did this dragon only have 1-8 hit points?
>
that Bard was using. But on damage-face it, AD&D damage is not realistic.
In real life, people get killed by dagger thrusts. In AD&D, people
have a good chance of survival. People also get killed if they fall
off high buildings. Level 20 fighters can jump into deeeep pits and
walk into battle the next second. Face it, damage is not realistic.
Peter F. Delaney
Well, we use a relatively simple system for crit hits and crit fumbles,
although we don't always have it in effect. Depends on the game. Only
player characters and NPC's using weapons are allowed to get these extra
swings, to save some time.
Rolling a 20: Immediately roll a second d20. (1) If you "couldn't hit"
the creature (i.e. you needed more than a 20 based on the THAC0
computation), you have to beat the part number minus twenty that you
needed. So if you needed a 25, you would need a 5 on the second die (no
bonuses!). (2) If a 20 would have hit, the second d20 is a second
attack roll. It's like getting an extra swing.
Rolling a 1: Immediately roll a second d20. If you roll less than
your DEX score, nothing happens. Otherwise, you lose your grip on your
weapon.
As for critical *damage*, when the damage you take from a single blow
is very high (depends on your level and DM whim), it is sometimes ruled
that this injury is something serious, like a broken bone, a
dislocation, or a concussion. The specific game effects are made up on
the spot. To heal this, you must heal the damage that was taken - it
heals at the normal rate, and can be cured with the usual priest heal
spells. Thus far, I've had no player complaints with this system, due
to the high prevalence of healing spells.
Example of Critical Damage: Grond the 2nd-level dwarf fighter, from
"The Dark Continent" game, was fighting a much higher level drow
swordsman. The swordsman hit him for 8 damage, plus a strength bonus of
+1, plus a magical bonus of +2 -- 11 damage. It was ruled that Grond
had had his leg cut badly, and was having difficulty moving around.
THE DISCUSSION PART:
Yes, I *am* going to argue that this has a purpose. It adds (1) a
certain excitement during combat, since you don't just have "hit" and
"miss" results - you also have slip ups and lucky extra attacks, and (2)
a certain amount of *fantasy* realism. This business of I swing, you
swing, I swing, you swing is kind of predictable after a while, even if
your combats have interesting terrain, unusual/unidentified monsters,
and tricky stuff to spice them up. I'm not going to claim it adds
objective realism, but it makes combats more believable for participants
- I guess it just gets them more into the fight, so it seems to matter
more.
This last is just my opinion, of course. If you don't like even this
simple crit system, ignore it. No point in wasting your time telling me
I'm wrong, is there?
I have to admit, most crit systems are just plain annoying. Playing a
fighter or thief is hosey enough as it is, without silly results like
"67 - 69 Facial Scar!! Charisma reduced by 1d4-1 points!" and "70 - 71
Permanent mental damage!! INT and WIS reduced by 1d2 points each!".
I've played in one game like that, and it was just a PITA - no advantage
to *us*, just a hose, especially since the DM in question didn't have
healing spells...
Pe+eR
.
Pe+eR Delaney, CMU, Pittburgh, PA ... Compuserve: 73750,3667
Internet: black...@cmu.edu ... Local: pd1x
Me: "I like quantum physics. It has a good beat, and you can dance to it."
Professor: "...but do you understand the lyrics?"
boelt...@iscsvax.uni.edu
> damage with weapons.
Here is the system I currently use, though I'm thinking of modifying it
based on some of the other ones I've read here in this newsgroup (some of
them sound quite interesting to me! :)
Basically, a critical hit can only occur on a natural 20, and that's only
if the attacker didn't need a natural 20 to hit in the first place (in which
case criticals do not happen, ie: you're lucky enough to hit in the first
place. :)
If a natural 20 is rolled, a d20 is rolled again. If this is less than or
equal to your level of experience, a critical is made (this makes higher
level characters get criticals more often).
The result of a critical is double base damage dice (2d8 for a Longsword,
2d6 for Short Sword, etc). If a 1 is rolled on the crit check, then the d20
is rolled again vs. Level to see if a triple crit is done (triple base damage
dice plus a special, like stun of knock prone). This could repeat again if
another natural 1 is rolled, getting progressively worse as to effect.
The same goes for crit fumbles. On a natural 1, a crit fumble is
possible, roll <= Level to avoid, otherwise a fumble happens, usually
flinging your weapon out of your hand. If a natural 20 is rolled on this
crit check, roll again for possible triple fumble (fling weapon into
companion, break weapon, snap bowstring). And so on for further natural 20s.
Obviously, I don't have a table of effects, as I usually make up an effect
that happens based on the situation at the time.
John "Nightwind" Boelter
--
*******************************************************************************
* John Boelter a.k.a. Nightwind boelt...@iscsvax.uni.edu *
* Organizational Manager and contact person for everything and then some. *
*******************************************************************************
* The individual who said we only use 10% * The first 90% of a task takes *
* of our brain's mental capacity, was * 90% of the time, and the last *
* probably 90% incorrect. * 10% takes the other 90%. *
* -Unknown comic on A&E- * -99 rule of Project Schedules- *
*******************************************************************************
z_co...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
> Actually, I always assumed that happened to be an arrow of Dragon Slaying
> that Bard was using. But on damage-face it, AD&D damage is not realistic.
> In real life, people get killed by dagger thrusts. In AD&D, people
> have a good chance of survival. People also get killed if they fall
> off high buildings. Level 20 fighters can jump into deeeep pits and
> walk into battle the next second. Face it, damage is not realistic.
But in AD&D, a normal person *can* be killed by a dagger, or falling
off a building! A normal person only has about 1-6 hps.
There is nothing (majorly) wrong with weapon damage in AD&D. The
problem is inflated hps at higher levels; *that's* what makes things
unrealistic.
Brandon Cope
Tarry Higgins
TITLE: Re: Critical Hits
+Subject : Re: Critical Hits
im article <1992Oct6.2...@u.washington.edu> scythe writes
> that Bard was using. But on damage-face it, AD&D damage is not realistic.
> In real life, people get killed by dagger thrusts. In AD&D, people
> have a good chance of survival. People also get killed if they fall
> off high buildings. Level 20 fighters can jump into deeeep pits and
> walk into battle the next second. Face it, damage is not realistic.
>
remember normal people have 1D6hp, and a dagger thrust does 1D4,
chance of a kill (under standard DnD rules 0hp=death) is about 30%.
Taz AKA thig...@cix.compulink.co.uk AKA Tarry A Higgins
The only valid test is combat,
The only valid result is victory.
Patrick Rannou
YES!!! Also, i've put crits in my games BECAUSE I just hated it when the
5th level fighter charges the three goblins saying "no sweat". Of course
he's better than them, and should win. BUT there is a difference between "I
*KNOW* I will win, 'cause statistically the level of randomness is so low
that I will fight until 0 HP. No matter how many times they stab me, I'll
still be up...". Sure. Not only it's being overconfident, it's taking the
fun out of fights. When facing a bigger enemy, you just KNOW you're gonna
lose, just like when facing a smaller enemy, you just KNOW you're gonna
win. OK, maybe you'll lose a few or even half of your HP, but you were able
to predict that result anyway, and that's not such a big problem.
Were is the intensity of combat? Not there. And mere "x2 DG" don't help
either.
Remember that in medieval fights, superiority of numbers always meant
vastly greater chances of winning a fight. So the three goblins against one
should receive more, as a bonus, than one of them having +2 to hit from
behind because they surround you. And when facing a greatly bigger enemy,
the party is say 6 against one. Thus you have 6 times more chances of doing
the critical.
In short, all critical does is make the difference in power levels be
smaller. And I tend to like that. I don't like playing a game in which
unless you fight minsters that are top max +-3 levels over or under you the
fight's end is already decided in advance. I like intensity. Make that
margin be +-6 levels instead. Replace "you hit for 6 hit points" with "you
smashed his face real hard, he slams in the wall HARD, he takes an
additionnal D6 DG of somatic damage and he is STUNNED. He's at -2 to hit,
is AC is worse by 2, and he loses initiative next round."
Without critical, you still can say "you smashed his face real hard, he
slams in the wall HARD" but how are you to decide about the game effect
this has, that is: "he takes an additionnal D6 DG of somatic damage and he
is STUNNED. He's at -2 to hit, is AC is worse by 2, and he loses initiative
next round." ? Unless you "simply make it up as you go", which is a kind of
critical hit system without any coherence in it, you can't.
And thus you lose a great deal on DIVERSITY. I hate those "Strike HIT
Strike Miss Strike Again until he falls" battles. Having crits isn't *THE*
way to not have this kind of battles, but it sure helps a lot to put a good
ambiance.
Now, the REAL problem is trying to find a way to REDUCE the time required
to deal with crits/fumbles. One way of doing it is NOT rolling damage
(saves one die roll) if the 20 is really a crit, and to never use more than
3 die rolls, preferably either 3 D% or 3 D20 (fast), to determine exactly
IF there is a critical, and what kind of critical it is.
My own critical system is constanlty being modified to allow for
fast-action. Currently it is like this:
A 20 is rolled...
0) The GM evaluates the "power levels" of attacker and defender, and the
"number to hit", all very quickly andNOT precisely. In short, he combines
all this to determine if the attack is "weak" "normal" or powerful".
Example: a thief needs a 19 to hit a fighter PC. He rolls 20: Weak attack.
When in doubt, the GM ALWAYS "round it" in favor of the players
(thus if the thief was the PC and not the fighter, then the GM could say
that it's a normal attack...)
The fighter PC needs a 8 to hit the goblin. It's a powerful attack.
1) Reroll the D20. I made a little table which takes into account the
APPROXIMATE level difference between the opponents on the Y axis, and the
approximate margin of success on the X axis (i.e. if the goblin attacked
and needed a 20 to hit, the margin is in the ZERO column. But if you need 8
or more to hit and roll 20, the margin is in the "over 10" column. There
are also columns for under 0... And there are also a similar table for when
you roll a 19 (though the GM instinctively knows that this one is used only
when the attack is most of the time an automatic success, like when you
need 3+ to hit...). The numbers at the intersection is the APPROXIMATE
number (or more) you needed to roll on the second roll of the D20 to get:
second (lowest) number: automatic max damage (if there is only one number
in the box, max damage is automatic). This allows for goblins making normal
damages on a roll of 20, and all the "approximate" words allow for QUICK
REFERENCING. The GM uses the number as guides. the tables should be
consulted VERY quickly, they also are pretty straighforward and a GM used
to them can often not have to consult them. When the party is having a hard
time, no need to check if the roll of 12 on them "critical determination
chart" really give a "max damage" or a "normal damage". Go straight for the
critical and have a good time. If the PCS have too easy a time, simply say
"max dmaage". If a rules lawyer can't understand why one round he got a
critical while rolling LESS on the chart than in another round (where he
only got "max damage", well too bad for him. Tell him rapid play is more
important than nit-picking and that the NEXT 20 he rolls, he does a normal
blow. Tell him that the GM often round up this "approximativeness" in favor
of the PCs, and thus criticals are a favor the GM do to the party. If he
doesn't like it, start doing the reverse thing and say to the other players
that it's the players fault. He shouyld understand soon enough.
Anyway, up to date we have (in most cases) simply replaced the damage roll
by a rerollof the D20, which is faster than changing dice to do a damage
roll. Consulting the table should never be more than a quick glance at it
to get a "feeling" of comparison and quickly decide if the roll was a
normal, max, or critical damage (or sometimes a double-critical).
Now, if it's normal damage, in most case it's a low-level monster, say a
goblin, fighting a well armored fighter, which is the GM's province and
thus he should know about it in advance (that there is a chance for normal
damage instead of the automatic max damage which is the norm when you roll
20) and roll the dmaage dice at the SAME time as the second D20 roll.
If it's max damage, end of story. Combat goes just as fast as usual.
If it's a critical, roll the D20 again, consult the "general effect"
described. All attacks do max damage unless a multipliwer is speicifically
described. In short: no need to roll the damage dice, which saves time.
Example of effects include:
Target stunned,
Target falls, prone & stunned
Target knocked back,
Damage x 2, x3, x4, x5
Bleeding (-1hp/round and a few little simple rules), Hemmoragy (-2 Hp/rnd),
(internal hemmoragy: -3 hp/rnd,
japanese movie style hemmoragy: -4 HP/rnd)
or a combination of multiplier and bleeding.
(I'm thinking about making hemmoragy top at -3/rnd...
Scars
member hurt & unusable for a little while
target unconscious
Member broken & unusable for a long while (or maybe even tchopped)
target feels incredible pains & passes out (comatose)
Target killed on the spot cinematically...
Most results don't involve permanent effects, nor loss of consciousness.
The Double-Critical table is simply rolling on the same table with a bonus
(+1 to +4) on the roll. This make a loss of effects in the low-range, but
make the automatic death prospect a lot higher (I'm thinking about kaing a
separate table which would simply contain the x5 multiplier and greater
hemorragy and things like that at lower values...
As of now, if you've gone as far as the crit table, you rolled two
additionnal D20 and no standard damage roll, thus it's only one more dice.
A few (not much) of the critical hits effects require a third D20 roll.
Typically, these involves things like hit-location, or durations. Example:
Scar in face. Roll D20: 1-3 = nose broken, ... 18 = lose nose, 19 = lose
ear, 20 = lose eye. Hit locations can be instead arbitrarily decided upon
by the GM. A few effects need both a location and duration.
So, at MOST, you need 3 additionnal rolls, mostly D20, and in normal cases
you need only either 0 or one additionnal roll (zero because the damage
roll is replaced by a D20 roll which determines if it's a "real" critical
or simply a "well placed shot for max damage".).
I think this combines Diversity and Simplicity along with Ease of use and
fast Pacing quite well, and I've, to date, not found any other critical
system which does as well on this DSEP "rating".
Pak.
--
/---------------------------\
| Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
| Ran...@info.polymtl.ca |
\---------------------------/
s9877751
>I was wondering about the implemented ways of afflicting critical
>rolls a natural 20 to hit. Do any of you DM's out there give bonus
>damage? If so, in what ways do you penalize the character if they
>roll extremely bad to even it all out?
>My curiosity arose when I examined the wild mage class and questioned
>if a spell's power can be altered by a die roll, then why not allow
>the other classes to have similar special cases.
>--
>
I've been DMing for quite a long while we played where a natural roll of 20
resulted in doubling the damage roll (the natural damage roll only, no
modifications are added until it is doubled)--this just didn't work. Albeit,
you don't roll 20's left and right, but some unfortunate deaths resulted, in
the party, because of the implementation of this rule. We also said that you
had to be able to strike the target on something other than a natural 20,
to be allowed the double damage.
HERE IS THE NEW WAY I WILL IMPLEMENT A BONUS FOR A NATURAL ROLL OF 20.
The attacker, who just rolled a natural 20, will have, because of the lucky
placement of his strike, have the opportunity to choose or roll for one of
the following occurences:
(1) the attacker is given a second attack immediately; note, this
second attack should only be granted once, in the event that
two 20's are rolled consecutively--just my opinion.
(2) the attacker puts himself in a better position to defend and can
either reieve some type of armour class bonus during the next
round, or be given the opportunity to move out of melee range
with relative safety;
(3) the attacker may choose to inflict a wound, with greater chances
than given (the standard being a 25% chance). The chance could
be raised to 50% or even higher if desired.
1d6 should be rolled, if you wish to randomly determine the outcome of having
rolled a natural 20. (1-3= #1) (4-5= #2) (6= #3);
Just my opinion.
McLeod, Stephen
>I was wondering about the implemented ways of afflicting critical
>damage with weapons. I mean like when a PC or for that matter a NPC
>rolls a natural 20 to hit. Do any of you DM's out there give bonus
>damage? If so, in what ways do you penalize the character if they
>roll extremely bad to even it all out?
My personal system:
An extra dice of damage (All modifiers only count once) if a twenty is rolled
and then *backed* up with a successful hit roll (not thing special for a
second twenty.)
Why? Well, the monsters get a lot more attacks on players than vice versa and
requiring a backed up roll means that the horde of one hit dice creatures won't
make mince meat out of the players while high level opponents and players get
the extra damage.
Why only the dice? Because in DND, which I play, high level fighters have the
option of taking -5 to hit and 'smashing' (putting all their strength into
one big blow). In this case they add their *strength* as a damage modifier.
Typical smash: 18 (strength) + 3 (strength damage bonus) + 2 (weapon/spells).
Using a two handed sword, a high level fighter can do up to 33 points (43 on
a double damage).
Deflects: Some weapons in the DND system are allowed deflects. I found it
lengthened the game to much to allow "full" deflects so I have modified them
to only deflect 5,8,11, or 14 points of damage (depending on the skill of the
person deflecting Skilled, Expert, Master, or Grand Master).
---
Stephen McLeod
Shawn Huston
The system that I have found that works best is extremely
simple...
For a natural roll of 20, the damage die is rolled twice and
any regular damage bonuses are added to that (strength, magical enchantment).
For a natural roll of 1, a dex check -6 is made. If the check is failed then
the DM will decide what happens in the situation. For example, if Tarthar
is charging on his warhorse and critical misses, he may fall off his horse,
or he could just drop his weapon. It all depends on the physical situation
at hand...
I've found that this system is one of the best to use...
Disclaimer: System designed by J. Eric Eaton...
Shawn Huston a.k.a. dogmeat
Chris Warren
Roll to hit. Natural 20 gives the attacker a chance for a critical.
Roll to hit again, if a hit is scored, roll double dammage.
A second natural 20 gives the attacker a chance for IK (Instant Kill).
In this case, roll to hit a third time and if a hit is scored, the
victem goes to 0 HP and is bleading 1 HP/round. If medical attention
is given, the character can be revived normally. If a third natural
20 is rolled, then the victem is Instantly Killed.
All of these assume that something less than a 20 is needed to hit.
If a twenty or higher is needed to hit then the first natural 20
is an automatic hit, and you roll again. If a 20 is scored then
check for a critical as above.
The advantage of this system is that it adds excitment to combat
with out it getting out of hand. Players and inteligent monstors
can usually survive an IK attack if they medical attention.
With this system a week character or monster can overcome overwhelming
odds and defeat a powerful opponent-- and that's the stuff from which
legends are born from.
In my campaign, binding a wound stops the bleeding, and
conciciousness is regained one day after the HPs become postive.
So anyone who goes negative needs to rest for at least one full day,
even they are brought above 0 immediately. If a powerful spell
that removes other conditions (like heal), or a wish is used, the
character can be roused immediately.
--Chris
Francois Menneteau
>I strongly recommend that you do NOT implement critical hits or fumbles
>in your game. We've been over this several times already, but I'll
>reiterate.
>
>for PC's to be injured by this rule. Since monsters rarely swing very
>than it does to PC's. In short, critical hits and fumbles penalize
>player characters MUCH more than they do monsters. It's just a matter
>of the numbers.
>
Unless (as I do) you lower for PC the value they need to make a critical hit.
The base is 20, and for each specialization point, you lower the base by one,
and for each two magical bonus, you also lower the base by one. Thus, a
warrior with a long sword +3, and specialist in this weapon, does a critical
strike on a roll of (20 - [3/2=1] - 1 [specialist] = ) 18 or higher.
Other bonus can be applied such a base critical of 19 for dwarves when
figthing giants.
Try it, and you'll see your players will love this system :-)
--
Francois Menneteau () __|||||__ () "... I had their lives in my hands
================== () /O O\ () their fate their fortune in my visions
ir...@imag.fr () - .|. - () No one believed in my true prophecy
================== () \=^=/ () And now it's too late." (Iron Maiden)
Patrick Rannou
Path: poly-vlsi!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!sifon!charnel!rat!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!ccsvax.sfasu.edu!z_copeab
From: z_co...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.dnd
Date: 7 Oct 92 09:55:28 CST
References: <1992Oct5.0...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> <1992Oct5.1...@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> <70...@hydra.gatech.EDU> <1992Oct6.2...@u.washington.edu>
Organization: Stephen F. Austin State University
Lines: 18
No. There is a problem. You say in AD&D a normal person CAN be killed
by a dagger hit, because it has only 1-6 HP. That's not exactly true.
Suppose the guy has 4 HP (pretty standard). Longsword hit, over 50% chance
that the guy is dead. If he isn't, the next blow WILL kill him. The problem
isn't that the person CAN be killed, it is that the person WILL be killed.
The problem is that it's much much much much much more probable that a
wound of severe nature should happen. Take our 4HP guy. He receives a sword
wound. ARG! But he receives only 2 points of damage. That's still half of
what a dagger can do. He survives, with still 2HP left. What do you say.
Suppose the threat to him suddnely flee (authority arrives). How well is
our guy? He just lost half his hit points. Has he a bug wound on his arm,
or something? Surely he's not up to par and can't start a fight at full
efficiency now. Where are the rules to describe the effect of damage on
combat?
I'm thinking about making rules that say that if a 8th level fighter lost
half his HP, he functions as a 4th level fighter, receives half his bonuses
for high dex/con/str, etc... (if he had a low dex/con/str, then the malus
stays the same) (or another rule like that).
So when he's got only 1HP left, he's on the verge of death
truly. Of course, the same should apply to monsters, and a way to make
stats happen to fall under 3 when the guy falls at 0 HP or less shouyld bec
made. But it's all too complicated.
Here is another example: you have a young child. 1 HP. You stab him,
he tries to flee with his high dex (childs should be agile), whatever.
*IF* you hit him, then it's impossible to say "he can be killed".
Heck, he WILL be killed!!! Impossible to have an arm wound, or whatever.
It's either you miss or he go down. DUH.
There is a BIG problem with AD&D, but I can't see any way to change it
unless rewriting the whole system, so I'll just continue to enjoy this damn
game...
Devon Sheppard
[blah blah blah...]
>or something? Surely he's not up to par and can't start a fight at full
>efficiency now. Where are the rules to describe the effect of damage on
>combat?
>I'm thinking about making rules that say that if a 8th level fighter lost
>half his HP, he functions as a 4th level fighter, receives half his bonuses
>for high dex/con/str, etc... (if he had a low dex/con/str, then the malus
>stays the same) (or another rule like that).
>So when he's got only 1HP left, he's on the verge of death truly. Of course,
>the same should apply to monsters, and a way to make stats happen to fall
>under 3 when the guy falls at 0 HP or less should be made. But it's all too
>complicated.
Wouldn't this sort of rule out heroics and risk taking and role playing? I
sorta think that's what the whole game is about. I fully support the abstract
system of hit points and damage, even if it is rather unrealistic. If you
want realism in your damage systems, play a 'wargame'. Some of the best games
use abstract systems (case in point: Risk).
>| Patrick "Paradak" Rannou. |
Devon
z_co...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
> In article <1992Oct7.0...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu> z_co...@ccsvax.sfasu.edu writes:
>
> In article <1992Oct6.2...@u.washington.edu>, scy...@byron.u.washington.edu (The Grim Reaper) writes:
> > Actually, I always assumed that happened to be an arrow of Dragon Slaying
> > that Bard was using. But on damage-face it, AD&D damage is not realistic.
> > In real life, people get killed by dagger thrusts. In AD&D, people
> > have a good chance of survival. People also get killed if they fall
> > off high buildings. Level 20 fighters can jump into deeeep pits and
> > walk into battle the next second. Face it, damage is not realistic.
>
>
> But in AD&D, a normal person *can* be killed by a dagger, or falling
> off a building! A normal person only has about 1-6 hps.
>
> There is nothing (majorly) wrong with weapon damage in AD&D. The
> problem is inflated hps at higher levels; *that's* what makes things
> unrealistic.
>
> No. There is a problem. You say in AD&D a normal person CAN be killed
> by a dagger hit, because it has only 1-6 HP. That's not exactly true.
>
> Suppose the guy has 4 HP (pretty standard). Longsword hit, over 50% chance
> that the guy is dead. If he isn't, the next blow WILL kill him. The problem
> isn't that the person CAN be killed, it is that the person WILL be killed.
>
Well, I use the 'unconscious at 0 HP, dies at -10 HP rule', which keeps
0-level types from 'automatically' dying.
If there is a problem with AD&D damage, its either that average people
have too few HPs, or the weapon's do *too much* damage (guess which one is
easier to fix...).
Brandon Cope