|[4E] Peeks at the books!
Jasin Zujovic
* Nearly every class has 4 At-Wills available to chose from at 1st
level, Wizard has 5. Same goes for Encounters. Fighter, Paladin and
Rogue have 3 Dailys, everyone else has 4. More become available at
higher levels.
* The Dragonborn breath type is chosen at character creation. Also,
Dragonborn Females do have boobs, at least in the picture.
* Multi-Classing requires a related Stat of 13+. Each class has an
Initiate Feat associated with it. Get to pick 1 Skill from class, also
get 1 specified power. There are also 3 Power Swap Feats starting at 4th
level. Swap any (Encounter Attack, Utility, Daily) Power you have for
one of equal or lower level from your chosen Multi-Class. The 3 feats
are of different levels, one for each power type (Encounter, Utility,
Daily.)
* 2-weapon fighting is a feat, but just gives a damage bonus, not
an extra attack. The ranger can take an at-will that gives him an extra
attack.
* Shifters are actually cool. Once the hit bloodied, they get an
ability that kicks in and last the last of the encounter that adds +2
spd and I believe + dmg (for shifter: razorclaw). The other shifter had
another + ability that kicked in at bloodied and lasted the whole time.
* Rogues are AMAZING. Like seriously, damn near Op. At 3rd level
they get a utility power that lets them re-roll any bluff check
(Trigger: when player rolls bluff, and doesn't like the look of the
roll.) They also have a nice garrotte ability that does 7w and can be
held for a bit...fun thing about holding it is that attacks on the rogue
have a possibility of hitting the person you're choking). They get
auto-escpape grapple abilities, and lots of things playing off Combat
advantage (including one that we figured could add 7W dmg +10d8 +dex
mod). Very sick.
* Starpact warlocks can throw you into the stars and bring you back
bent...and infernal pact locks can banish someone to hell for a time
(keeping them there for up to 3 rounds with a minor action).
* If you take multiclassing paragon path option, you get an at will
ability of your new class at 11, and a new encounter and daily at upper
levels.
* Minotaurs are a MM race, and get a fun per encounter charge
attack, and +2str and +2 con.
* Doppelgangers get a "look like another humanoid" ability that's
at will effectively.
* Gnomes. GNOMES. Gnomes are insane. Gnomes can *turn invis* once
per encounter after they've taken dmg. They can also choose to roll
"hide" instead of intialtive at the start of an encounter. Hello Gnome
Rogue. And by "hello" I mean, "Please, for the love of god, stop
stabbing me in the back." My friends quote was "Man, I hate gnomes!
They're stupid! But now I can't stop picturing a pack of gnomes sitting
in the trees doing the clicking noise that the Predators make in the
alien movies. Stupid stealth gnomes. I'm going to have to play one."
* Bugbears get a dmg bonus for combat advantage I believe.
* Rituals: range from cheap to learn and cast to expensive. As an
example: Raise Dead costs 650GP to learn uses a 500gp reagent, and
"scales" at levels. At lowever levels, it's "free" except for the
reagent cost." At medium levels it's 5,000gp. And at epic levels it's
50,000. Oh, and the raised person gets a penalty of -1 until you've
passed "3" milestones.
* Oh, and another interesting/weird feature....there is an easy to
cast ritual that clears 1 status ailment (curse, disease, etc) each time
it's cast, but with a catch. You make a heal check, and your result ='s
how much dmg the TARGET sick player takes while being healed. SO, a low
roll can kill outright, or can do dmg. A high roll causes very little dmg.
* Timestop is a spell in 4e. Gives you 2 extra actions, neither of
which can be used for attack.
* Trapfinding is part of thievery.
* Tumbling is a Rogue Utility power. Once per encounter, shift half
your base move.
* +1 to each of two different stats at about every 4th level, but
there are a few levels (I think 11 and 21) where every stat gets a +1 bonus.
* Star Pacts - One ability throws the person into "A dark and
twisted area of space", for 7d10 dmg (and this could be off, I didn't
write it down) where they float for a bit then fall down
"mad"...considering everyone there enemy. They take Opportunity Attacks
on everyone, and consider everyone an enemy. I honestly got a
psudonatural flavor...not in the "weird tentacle" way, but in the
"things man was not meant to know kind of way."
* Warforged were in the book too, but stripped down a bit. Less
immunities. And their encounter ability felt to me a bit meh...once per
encounter when blodied you heal con mod + 1/2 level. Still, not a bad
race...but not so zomg overpowered as they once were.
* The following monsters were listed with some info for use as
playable character races: Bugbear, Doppleganger, Drow, Githyanki,
Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kobold, Minotaur, Orc,
Shadar-Kai, Shifter (2 types), Warforged.
* These are the listed Dragons: Black, Blue, Green, Red, White.
* There are 5 Alignments: Good, Lawful Good, Evil, Chaotic Evil,
Unaligned. Among the gods I did not see any evil or CE listed.
* I did get a bit on the Warforged: +2 STR, +2 CON, Speed 6, Vision
Normal, +2 to Endurance Skill, Can wear armor.
Hong Ooi
Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> * Rogues are AMAZING. Like seriously, damn near Op. At 3rd level
> they get a utility power that lets them re-roll any bluff check
> (Trigger: when player rolls bluff, and doesn't like the look of the
> roll.) They also have a nice garrotte ability that does 7w and can be
> held for a bit...fun thing about holding it is that attacks on the rogue
> have a possibility of hitting the person you're choking). They get
> auto-escpape grapple abilities, and lots of things playing off Combat
> advantage (including one that we figured could add 7W dmg +10d8 +dex
> mod). Very sick.
Hmm. Perhaps my concerns about lack of "shock" in 4E were premature.
Jasin Zujovic
> Where the hell have you been, mang?
Well, I have started working, but I don't think my posting frequency
changed much. The volume might have decreased, though.
That jumped out at me too.
--
Jasin
Hong Ooi
> Hong Ooi wrote:
>> Where the hell have you been, mang?
>
> Well, I have started working, but I don't think my posting frequency
> changed much. The volume might have decreased, though.
It's hard to find your posts amid the ppl who have been fired as
customers. You have to speak up more!
And how's the job going?
>
>>> * Rogues are AMAZING. Like seriously, damn near Op. At 3rd level
>>> they get a utility power that lets them re-roll any bluff check
>>> (Trigger: when player rolls bluff, and doesn't like the look of the
>>> roll.) They also have a nice garrotte ability that does 7w and can be
>>> held for a bit...fun thing about holding it is that attacks on the
>>> rogue have a possibility of hitting the person you're choking). They
>>> get auto-escpape grapple abilities, and lots of things playing off
>>> Combat advantage (including one that we figured could add 7W dmg
>>> +10d8 +dex mod). Very sick.
>>
>> Hmm. Perhaps my concerns about lack of "shock" in 4E were premature.
>
> That jumped out at me too.
With luck, we'll be playing KotS in June so we'll find out for sure. Any
plans to play 4E?
Jasin Zujovic
>>> Where the hell have you been, mang?
>>
>> Well, I have started working, but I don't think my posting frequency
>> changed much. The volume might have decreased, though.
>
> It's hard to find your posts amid the ppl who have been fired as
> customers. You have to speak up more!
I suppose the latest bits haven't been changing my mind much. The
initial "it's like SWSE and Bo9S!" bit was highly encouraging, the stuff
that came out afterwards... wasn't. The new bits coming out now mostly
seems to be keeping the same theme, so there aren't any disappointments,
but it isn't making me switch back to "yay 4E!" either.
> And how's the job going?
So far, so good. The people I work with seem cool, and I think that's
very important.
>>>> * Rogues are AMAZING. Like seriously, damn near Op. At 3rd level
>>>> they get a utility power that lets them re-roll any bluff check
>>>> (Trigger: when player rolls bluff, and doesn't like the look of the
>>>> roll.) They also have a nice garrotte ability that does 7w and can
>>>> be held for a bit...fun thing about holding it is that attacks on
>>>> the rogue have a possibility of hitting the person you're choking).
>>>> They get auto-escpape grapple abilities, and lots of things playing
>>>> off Combat advantage (including one that we figured could add 7W dmg
>>>> +10d8 +dex mod). Very sick.
>>>
>>> Hmm. Perhaps my concerns about lack of "shock" in 4E were premature.
>>
>> That jumped out at me too.
>
> With luck, we'll be playing KotS in June so we'll find out for sure. Any
> plans to play 4E?
KotS has been shipped, but we still have two AoW adventures to go, and
there's no way we're just dropping that so close to the end. We might
try a bit of 4E on the weeks when we can't get AoW going, but I'm not
sure how we'll manage that without someone feeling left out: if everyone
was available, we'd be playing AoW, after all.
On the other hand, I sure don't want to wait the 2+ months we'll need to
finish AoW before I try 4E for the first time...
--
Jasin
Hong Ooi
> Hong Ooi wrote:
>>>> Where the hell have you been, mang?
>>>
>>> Well, I have started working, but I don't think my posting frequency
>>> changed much. The volume might have decreased, though.
>>
>> It's hard to find your posts amid the ppl who have been fired as
>> customers. You have to speak up more!
>
> I suppose the latest bits haven't been changing my mind much. The
> initial "it's like SWSE and Bo9S!" bit was highly encouraging, the stuff
> that came out afterwards... wasn't. The new bits coming out now mostly
> seems to be keeping the same theme, so there aren't any disappointments,
> but it isn't making me switch back to "yay 4E!" either.
Yeah, I guess by now there's been enough information released that any
more will only be a marginal contribution. Me, I'd say that while
they've done some things differently to what I'd do, it's still
something I'm looking forward to.
>
>> And how's the job going?
>
> So far, so good. The people I work with seem cool, and I think that's
> very important.
Yep, it is.
>>
>> With luck, we'll be playing KotS in June so we'll find out for sure.
>> Any plans to play 4E?
>
> KotS has been shipped, but we still have two AoW adventures to go, and
> there's no way we're just dropping that so close to the end. We might
> try a bit of 4E on the weeks when we can't get AoW going, but I'm not
> sure how we'll manage that without someone feeling left out: if everyone
> was available, we'd be playing AoW, after all.
Ooh, that's right. You just finished the giants v dragons module. It
just gets more violent from here on in. Have fun storming the castle! :)
>
> On the other hand, I sure don't want to wait the 2+ months we'll need to
> finish AoW before I try 4E for the first time...
Have 2 campaigns at the same time! There's a few people in your group
willing to DM, aren't there?
Nockermensch
> http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=226407
>
> * Nearly every class has 4 At-Wills available to chose from at 1st
> level, Wizard has 5. Same goes for Encounters. Fighter, Paladin and
> Rogue have 3 Dailys, everyone else has 4. More become available at
> higher levels.
Also, more become avaliable with more books, surely. What do you think
will be the selling point for "Martial Power"? :)
> * The Dragonborn breath type is chosen at character creation. Also,
> Dragonborn Females do have boobs, at least in the picture.
/thread. Everybody, go home.
> * Multi-Classing requires a related Stat of 13+. Each class has an
> Initiate Feat associated with it. Get to pick 1 Skill from class, also
> get 1 specified power. There are also 3 Power Swap Feats starting at 4th
> level. Swap any (Encounter Attack, Utility, Daily) Power you have for
> one of equal or lower level from your chosen Multi-Class. The 3 feats
> are of different levels, one for each power type (Encounter, Utility,
> Daily.)
You and others already commented about how weak these feats sound,
right? The starting feat, however, seems a fair trade, at very least
for Thievery, who seems to be a multi-purpose skill now. (and good for
everybody if you're going for that Tales of Lankhmar feel)
> * 2-weapon fighting is a feat, but just gives a damage bonus, not
> an extra attack. The ranger can take an at-will that gives him an extra
> attack.
So, my character holds a weapon in his offhand and still makes only
one attack per round, only with a bigger damage? My head hurts.
> * Shifters are actually cool. Once the hit bloodied, they get an
> ability that kicks in and last the last of the encounter that adds +2
> spd and I believe + dmg (for shifter: razorclaw). The other shifter had
> another + ability that kicked in at bloodied and lasted the whole time.
Since Shifters cater to Wolverine fans, I'm not surprised. This is
like that barbarian option of auto-raging when "bloodied" (in 3E, no
less!). These powers seem compatible with the new and improved PC
grade powers.
> * Rogues are AMAZING. Like seriously, damn near Op. At 3rd level
> they get a utility power that lets them re-roll any bluff check
> (Trigger: when player rolls bluff, and doesn't like the look of the
> roll.) They also have a nice garrotte ability that does 7w and can be
> held for a bit...fun thing about holding it is that attacks on the rogue
> have a possibility of hitting the person you're choking). They get
> auto-escpape grapple abilities, and lots of things playing off Combat
> advantage (including one that we figured could add 7W dmg +10d8 +dex
> mod). Very sick.
So, THIS is where they start looking like "Strikers". So far, the
rogues shown lacked punch.
> * Starpact warlocks can throw you into the stars and bring you back
> bent...and infernal pact locks can banish someone to hell for a time
> (keeping them there for up to 3 rounds with a minor action).
So, the Maze spell with a different make-up.
> * If you take multiclassing paragon path option, you get an at will
> ability of your new class at 11, and a new encounter and daily at upper
> levels.
This is probably where CharOp will start finding unexpected synergies
and producing the first 4E exploits. And by exploits, I mean, 0-day
exploits, the game-breaking kind that make the company scramble to
mount a service pack in time to placate enraged customers.
> * Minotaurs are a MM race, and get a fun per encounter charge
> attack, and +2str and +2 con.
Looks kind of meh.
> * Doppelgangers get a "look like another humanoid" ability that's
> at will effectively.
wut? A non-combat ability? I'm amazed they let this slip. :)
> * Gnomes. GNOMES. Gnomes are insane. Gnomes can *turn invis* once
> per encounter after they've taken dmg. They can also choose to roll
> "hide" instead of intialtive at the start of an encounter. Hello Gnome
> Rogue. And by "hello" I mean, "Please, for the love of god, stop
> stabbing me in the back." My friends quote was "Man, I hate gnomes!
> They're stupid! But now I can't stop picturing a pack of gnomes sitting
> in the trees doing the clicking noise that the Predators make in the
> alien movies. Stupid stealth gnomes. I'm going to have to play one."
Dude, I'm not even a CharOp grade optimizer, but I'm already thinking
in a gnome wizard, with the rogue multiclass feat (or the quickest
route for getting MAX hide). Drop Control death over the opposition
before they can react!
> * Bugbears get a dmg bonus for combat advantage I believe.
Double-meh. I thought that the bugbears thing was stealth. (which is
strange on itself, but hey).
> * Rituals: range from cheap to learn and cast to expensive. As an
> example: Raise Dead costs 650GP to learn uses a 500gp reagent, and
> "scales" at levels. At lowever levels, it's "free" except for the
> reagent cost." At medium levels it's 5,000gp. And at epic levels it's
> 50,000. Oh, and the raised person gets a penalty of -1 until you've
> passed "3" milestones.
Wait, so it costs *more* to raise an epic tier guy? I'm not sure of
what they're trying to map with this. I know that most epic destinies
have death negating skills, but this looks silly and without purpose.
> * Oh, and another interesting/weird feature....there is an easy to
> cast ritual that clears 1 status ailment (curse, disease, etc) each time
> it's cast, but with a catch. You make a heal check, and your result ='s
> how much dmg the TARGET sick player takes while being healed. SO, a low
> roll can kill outright, or can do dmg. A high roll causes very little dmg.
Nice! But then, this shows that are statuses that aren't negated by a
saving throw. I wonder how many more statuses are like this. (probably
stone)
> * Timestop is a spell in 4e. Gives you 2 extra actions, neither of
> which can be used for attack.
They've hit the wizards with the nerf-stick so hard in 4E, it's not
even funny. Makes me wonder if wizards are actually *weak* now,
instead just "balanced".
> * Trapfinding is part of thievery.
Thievery looks like wonderful skill to obtain crossclassed. For
roleplaying reasons, you know.
> * Tumbling is a Rogue Utility power. Once per encounter, shift half
> your base move.
Meh. While I agree that tumbling abuse made movement inside threatened
areas a non-issue in 3E (from low-mid levels on), this implementation
is... lackluster.
> * +1 to each of two different stats at about every 4th level, but
> there are a few levels (I think 11 and 21) where every stat gets a +1 bonus.
Good! Specially given that there shouldn't be status enhancers
anymore, this is a welcome rule.
> * Star Pacts - One ability throws the person into "A dark and
> twisted area of space", for 7d10 dmg (and this could be off, I didn't
> write it down) where they float for a bit then fall down
> "mad"...considering everyone there enemy. They take Opportunity Attacks
> on everyone, and consider everyone an enemy. I honestly got a
> psudonatural flavor...not in the "weird tentacle" way, but in the
> "things man was not meant to know kind of way."
Good flavor. I imagine the person disappears into corners that weren't
there just a moment ago, or something. I noticed that they're giving
more space to the Far Realm in 4E, and this is a good thing.
> * Warforged were in the book too, but stripped down a bit. Less
> immunities. And their encounter ability felt to me a bit meh...once per
> encounter when blodied you heal con mod + 1/2 level. Still, not a bad
> race...but not so zomg overpowered as they once were.
Isn't this a *weaker* version of a power that all dwarf gets? It's not
even it being weak, the sad part it's that they seem to have a
redundant power.
> * The following monsters were listed with some info for use as
> playable character races: Bugbear, Doppleganger, Drow, Githyanki,
> Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Kobold, Minotaur, Orc,
> Shadar-Kai, Shifter (2 types), Warforged.
Good racial setup. I also imagine that more books and DDI updates will
expand these with racial feats, powers, paragon paths, etc.
> * These are the listed Dragons: Black, Blue, Green, Red, White.
> * There are 5 Alignments: Good, Lawful Good, Evil, Chaotic Evil,
> Unaligned. Among the gods I did not see any evil or CE listed.
This is... Silly.
So, no Dr. Doom? No Robin Hood? They ruined my favorite villain
alignment! *nerdrages*
> * I did get a bit on the Warforged: +2 STR, +2 CON, Speed 6, Vision
> Normal, +2 to Endurance Skill, Can wear armor.
Big meh, as already said. Nothing you can't fix with racial feats, I
suppose.
--
@ @ Nockermensch, wondering if warforged grafts would rank as feats,
powers or equipment under 4E paradigm
Justisaur
> On 17 maio, 20:08, Jasin Zujovic <jzujo...@inet.hr> wrote:
>
> > * The Dragonborn breath type is chosen at character creation. Also,
> > Dragonborn Females do have boobs, at least in the picture.
>
> /thread. Everybody, go home.
I cast racial mastectomy in my campaign world.
> > * 2-weapon fighting is a feat, but just gives a damage bonus, not
> > an extra attack. The ranger can take an at-will that gives him an extra
> > attack.
>
> So, my character holds a weapon in his offhand and still makes only
> one attack per round, only with a bigger damage? My head hurts.
>
It's abstracted.
> > * If you take multiclassing paragon path option, you get an at will
> > ability of your new class at 11, and a new encounter and daily at upper
> > levels.
>
> This is probably where CharOp will start finding unexpected synergies
> and producing the first 4E exploits. And by exploits, I mean, 0-day
> exploits, the game-breaking kind that make the company scramble to
> mount a service pack in time to placate enraged customers.
Lurch says U U u u u u...
> Dude, I'm not even a CharOp grade optimizer, but I'm already thinking
> in a gnome wizard, with the rogue multiclass feat (or the quickest
> route for getting MAX hide). Drop Control death over the opposition
> before they can react!
>
U U u u u....
> > * Rituals: range from cheap to learn and cast to expensive. As an
> > example: Raise Dead costs 650GP to learn uses a 500gp reagent, and
> > "scales" at levels. At lowever levels, it's "free" except for the
> > reagent cost." At medium levels it's 5,000gp. And at epic levels it's
> > 50,000. Oh, and the raised person gets a penalty of -1 until you've
> > passed "3" milestones.
>
> Wait, so it costs *more* to raise an epic tier guy? I'm not sure of
> what they're trying to map with this. I know that most epic destinies
> have death negating skills, but this looks silly and without purpose.
Yes, I don't like this.
>
> > * Oh, and another interesting/weird feature....there is an easy to
> > cast ritual that clears 1 status ailment (curse, disease, etc) each time
> > it's cast, but with a catch. You make a heal check, and your result ='s
> > how much dmg the TARGET sick player takes while being healed. SO, a low
> > roll can kill outright, or can do dmg. A high roll causes very little dmg.
>
> Nice! But then, this shows that are statuses that aren't negated by a
> saving throw. I wonder how many more statuses are like this. (probably
> stone)
>
Hmm. Yeah, what happened to the everything gets a save that ends the
effect?
> > * Timestop is a spell in 4e. Gives you 2 extra actions, neither of
> > which can be used for attack.
>
> They've hit the wizards with the nerf-stick so hard in 4E, it's not
> even funny. Makes me wonder if wizards are actually *weak* now,
> instead just "balanced".
Don't forget archmages get to cast 2 daily powers! WOW! It's SOOO
powerful!
> > * Star Pacts - One ability throws the person into "A dark and
> > twisted area of space", for 7d10 dmg (and this could be off, I didn't
> > write it down) where they float for a bit then fall down
> > "mad"...considering everyone there enemy. They take Opportunity Attacks
> > on everyone, and consider everyone an enemy. I honestly got a
> > psudonatural flavor...not in the "weird tentacle" way, but in the
> > "things man was not meant to know kind of way."
>
> Good flavor. I imagine the person disappears into corners that weren't
> there just a moment ago, or something. I noticed that they're giving
> more space to the Far Realm in 4E, and this is a good thing.
I like this too.
> > * Warforged were in the book too, but stripped down a bit. Less
> > immunities. And their encounter ability felt to me a bit meh...once per
> > encounter when blodied you heal con mod + 1/2 level. Still, not a bad
> > race...but not so zomg overpowered as they once were.
>
> Isn't this a *weaker* version of a power that all dwarf gets? It's not
> even it being weak, the sad part it's that they seem to have a
> redundant power.
Hmph. I thought warforged were stupidly weak for supposed constructs
to begin with. Now they are just like a human with a healing potion
grafted on... somewhere... Do they look like a human with a board
nailed to their head too?
> > * There are 5 Alignments: Good, Lawful Good, Evil, Chaotic Evil,
> > Unaligned. Among the gods I did not see any evil or CE listed.
>
> This is... Silly.
Sigh. I was o.k. when they said good, neutral and evil, but why tack
on lawful, and chaotic but only for good and evil respectively. This
is beyond silly. This is ridiculously stupid. THIS makes my head
hurt. It had to be design by committee. I can't believe one single
person came up with this. Somebody must have been whining about his
paladin needed to be "lawful" good. Not just good.
- Justisaur
Christopher Adams
> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>
>> * 2-weapon fighting is a feat, but just gives a damage bonus,
>> not
>> an extra attack. The ranger can take an at-will that gives him an
>> extra attack.
>
> So, my character holds a weapon in his offhand and still makes only
> one attack per round, only with a bigger damage? My head hurts.
Shit be abstract, yo.
But seriously, it's not really hard to imagine, is it? You thrust with your
rapier, and get in an extra little slice with the dagger in your other hand
as you step back. It's not really "worthy" of a full attack roll all its
own, it's more of an opportunistic thing.
>> * Bugbears get a dmg bonus for combat advantage I believe.
>
> Double-meh. I thought that the bugbears thing was stealth. (which is
> strange on itself, but hey).
Well, one way to gain combat advantage is to attack from concealment -
though I can't recall anyone's having said that bugbears were stealthy.
> Wait, so it costs *more* to raise an epic tier guy? I'm not sure of
> what they're trying to map with this. I know that most epic destinies
> have death negating skills, but this looks silly and without purpose.
I wouldn't be surprised if the ritual involved making an offering to the
Raven Queen to return your comrade's soul - and so more powerful souls are
worth more of a bribe.
>> * Oh, and another interesting/weird feature....there is an easy
>> to cast ritual that clears 1 status ailment (curse, disease, etc)
>> each time it's cast, but with a catch. You make a heal check, and
>> your result ='s how much dmg the TARGET sick player takes
>> while being healed. SO, a low roll can kill outright, or can do
>> dmg. A high roll causes very little dmg.
>
> Nice! But then, this shows that are statuses that aren't negated by a
> saving throw. I wonder how many more statuses are like this. (probably
> stone)
We've seen petrification as an effect that takes several rounds to actually
turn you to stone, with saves to throw off the effect before you're actually
petrified . . . I guess if you fail all the saves, yeah, you need something
stronger.
--
Christopher Adams
Sydney, Australia
For theirs is the power and this is their kingdom
As sure as the sun does burn
So enter this path, but heed these four words:
You shall never return
Harold Groot
<mhacdeinva...@yahoo.invalid> wrote:
>Nockermensch wrote:
>> Double-meh. I thought that the bugbears thing was stealth. (which is
>> strange on itself, but hey).
>Well, one way to gain combat advantage is to attack from concealment -
>though I can't recall anyone's having said that bugbears were stealthy.
In 1E bugbears had an increased chance to surprise their foes.
Instead of the standard 2-in-6 chance they surprised others on 3-in-6,
so they were 50% better at it than most.
With 3E they were given a +4 racial bonus on Move Silently, giving
them a whopping 6. With that racial bonus you can say stealthy is
still their shtick, but it ain't like in the old days. 1 point of
that 6 is from Dex 12, so that means only 1 rank in Move Silently for
a 3HD monster. So my guess is that someone else agreed that it was
odd for a big shaggy thing to be so stealthy and they toned it down
for 3E.
Malachias Invictus
"Justisaur" <just...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:03d57933-26bd-43ab...@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> On May 19, 12:34 pm, Nockermensch <ralgo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17 maio, 20:08, Jasin Zujovic <jzujo...@inet.hr> wrote:
>> > * The Dragonborn breath type is chosen at character creation.
>> > Also,
>> > Dragonborn Females do have boobs, at least in the picture.
>> /thread. Everybody, go home.
> I cast racial mastectomy in my campaign world.
Maybe Dragonborn lactate.
>> > * Warforged were in the book too, but stripped down a bit. Less
>> > immunities. And their encounter ability felt to me a bit meh...once per
>> > encounter when blodied you heal con mod + 1/2 level. Still, not a bad
>> > race...but not so zomg overpowered as they once were.
>> Isn't this a *weaker* version of a power that all dwarf gets? It's not
>> even it being weak, the sad part it's that they seem to have a
>> redundant power.
> Hmph. I thought warforged were stupidly weak for supposed constructs
> to begin with.
Fuck Warforged, and all the other MagicPunk crap.
> Now they are just like a human with a healing potion
> grafted on... somewhere... Do they look like a human with a board
> nailed to their head too?
It sounds just like the Cyberpeasant supplement of Advunced Peasants &
Crapmongers. I want my Warforged to have a wooden bladder +2.
--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.
from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
mcv
Actually, it's almost exactly what Warhammer FRP has: lawful, good,
neutral, evil, chaotic. But there Lawful and Chaos are powers
fighting for control of the world, and good, neutral and evil are all
relatively benign.
But yes, calling it "lawful good" and "chaotic evil" is a bit silly.
> This is ridiculously stupid. THIS makes my head
> hurt. It had to be design by committee. I can't believe one single
> person came up with this. Somebody must have been whining about his
> paladin needed to be "lawful" good. Not just good.
What's wrong with making paladins just lawful? That works fine for me.
mcv.
--
Science is not the be-all and end-all of human existence. It's a tool.
A very powerful tool, but not the only tool. And if only that which
could be verified scientifically was considered real, then nearly all
of human experience would be not-real. -- Zachriel
Justisaur
> Justisaur <justis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 19, 12:34 pm, Nockermensch <ralgo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 17 maio, 20:08, Jasin Zujovic <jzujo...@inet.hr> wrote:
>
> >> > * There are 5 Alignments: Good, Lawful Good, Evil, Chaotic Evil,
> >> > Unaligned. Among the gods I did not see any evil or CE listed.
>
> >> This is... Silly.
>
> > Sigh. I was o.k. when they said good, neutral and evil, but why tack
> > on lawful, and chaotic but only for good and evil respectively. This
> > is beyond silly.
>
> Actually, it's almost exactly what Warhammer FRP has: lawful, good,
> neutral, evil, chaotic. But there Lawful and Chaos are powers
> fighting for control of the world, and good, neutral and evil are all
> relatively benign.
>
> But yes, calling it "lawful good" and "chaotic evil" is a bit silly.
>
> > This is ridiculously stupid. THIS makes my head
> > hurt. It had to be design by committee. I can't believe one single
> > person came up with this. Somebody must have been whining about his
> > paladin needed to be "lawful" good. Not just good.
>
> What's wrong with making paladins just lawful? That works fine for me.
>
Um... I don't think you were paying attention. There is no lawful or
chaotic alignment... by themselves. The alignments are
Lawful Good
Good
Neutral
Evil
Chaotic Evil
Unaligned.
No Lawful
No Chaotic
You can't be Lawful without being Good, and you can't be Chaotic
without being Evil. But you can be Evil without being Chaotic, and you
can be Good without being Lawful.
Makes no sense.
- Justisaur
Tetsubo
Actually it sounds like modern America. If you are Good, you must also
obey the law of the land and are thusly Lawful. Anyone that questions
the Law (the government) must be by default be Evil. And deserve a
waterboarding. Off to Gitmo! I wonder if they will be manufacturing
little 4E lapel pins? To show your loyalty...
--
Tetsubo
--------------------------------------
"The apparent lesson of the Inquisition is that insistence on
uniformity of belief is fatal to intellectual, moral and spiritual health."
-The Uses Of The Past-, Herbert J. Muller
BLUP
Nockermensch
By now, I'm really curious to read the alignment descriptions.
--
@ @ Nockermensch, <%=alignment%> curious
mcv
> On May 23, 1:36 am, mcv <mcv...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>> Justisaur <justis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On May 19, 12:34 pm, Nockermensch <ralgo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On 17 maio, 20:08, Jasin Zujovic <jzujo...@inet.hr> wrote:
>>
>> >> > * There are 5 Alignments: Good, Lawful Good, Evil, Chaotic Evil,
>> >> > Unaligned. Among the gods I did not see any evil or CE listed.
>>
>> >> This is... Silly.
>>
>> > Sigh. I was o.k. when they said good, neutral and evil, but why tack
>> > on lawful, and chaotic but only for good and evil respectively. This
>> > is beyond silly.
>>
>> Actually, it's almost exactly what Warhammer FRP has: lawful, good,
>> neutral, evil, chaotic. But there Lawful and Chaos are powers
>> fighting for control of the world, and good, neutral and evil are all
>> relatively benign.
>>
>> But yes, calling it "lawful good" and "chaotic evil" is a bit silly.
>>
>> > This is ridiculously stupid. THIS makes my head
>> > hurt. It had to be design by committee. I can't believe one single
>> > person came up with this. Somebody must have been whining about his
>> > paladin needed to be "lawful" good. Not just good.
>>
>> What's wrong with making paladins just lawful? That works fine for me.
>
> Um... I don't think you were paying attention. There is no lawful or
> chaotic alignment... by themselves.
> You can't be Lawful without being Good, and you can't be Chaotic
> without being Evil. But you can be Evil without being Chaotic, and you
> can be Good without being Lawful.
Oh, I agree. I wasn't defending "lawful good", I was wondering if they
wanted to cut back the number of alignments, why not simply go to the
WFRP system of having lawful completely seperate from good?