[3.5] Trading in Knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion?
Rast
On page 53 of Complete Champion, it describes the process of trading in a
domain for a domain focus feat:
"...you can choose to give up access to a domain in exchange for the
corresponding domain feat ... In essence, you trade in a domain for an
extra feat slot that you can spend only on a specific domain feat."
Now, the granted power of the Knowledge domain is that all Knowledge
skills become class skills. Could my cleric take the Knowledge Domain at
character creation, buy Knowledge skill ranks as class skills, then a few
levels later, after having bought all I want, trade the domain in for
Knowledge Devotion?
The abuse is that even after losing the domain, I would arguably retain
the benefit of having bought Knowledge skills as class skills. Would you
allow this?
--
But my situation is not entirely desperate. The Flatlanders are, I
have learned, edible, with a taste something like very moist smoked
salmon. It takes quite a few of them to make a meal, but they are
plentiful, and they are easy to catch. - Rudy Rucker
Keith Davies
>
> On page 53 of Complete Champion, it describes the process of trading in a
> domain for a domain focus feat:
>
> "...you can choose to give up access to a domain in exchange for the
> corresponding domain feat ... In essence, you trade in a domain for an
> extra feat slot that you can spend only on a specific domain feat."
>
> Now, the granted power of the Knowledge domain is that all Knowledge
> skills become class skills. Could my cleric take the Knowledge Domain at
> character creation, buy Knowledge skill ranks as class skills, then a few
> levels later, after having bought all I want, trade the domain in for
> Knowledge Devotion?
>
> The abuse is that even after losing the domain, I would arguably retain
> the benefit of having bought Knowledge skills as class skills. Would you
> allow this?
I'd have no particular problem with it. Knowledge skills are handy, but
hardly powerful. Keeping the ranks shouldn't prove to be a problem.
Keith
--
Keith Davies "Do you know what is in beer? The strength
keith....@kjdavies.org to bear the things you can't change, and
keith....@gmail.com wisdom to ignore them and fsck off for
http://www.kjdavies.org/ another beer." -- Owen, discussing work
Hadsil
Suppose, for whatever a reason, a player took Power Attack and
Cleave. At some later level, the player wants to trade away Power
Attack for Skill Focus (Profession) but keep Cleave. Would you allow
that? So what happens to the skill ranks now that they are no longer
class skills?
Don't resent being the DM. It's wonderful you would allow retraining
feats. Such a thing can be a great legitimate boon for players should
they find their original tactic/idea is not working out or a feat that
was terrific at low level has become obsolete at high level.
Sometimes play experience has them discover a better tactic than they
were using and prefer to enact it now rather than wait 3 or 6 levels
to get the feats the old-fashioned way. However, for something cheesy
as this, that's taking advantage of the generosity. If it bothers you
to such a degree, be the DM.
Gerald Katz
Keith Davies
Heh, I was okay with it, sounds like you're not. Reversal, eh?
You could treat it such that instead of getting the domain, you get the
domain focus *instead* (or could take it in addition to, if you wanted).
The exchange can be made only when you would get the domain in the first
place. That gets around the question entirely.
Hadsil
The DM is a player too. :)
> You could treat it such that instead of getting the domain, you get the
> domain focus *instead* (or could take it in addition to, if you wanted).
> The exchange can be made only when you would get the domain in the first
> place. That gets around the question entirely.
>
> Keith
> --
That I'm ok with, but the character is better off just spending the
feat for Knowledge Devotion and still have Knowledge Domain. If for
some particular build you must, must have every feat accounted for
other things (which I can relate since my current character needed
precise feats at precise times and I'll still have to retrain a feat
which did become obsolete), sure go ahead and swap, but I find
Knowledge Domain way too good to pass up. If you're going to have
Knowledge Devotion, you need the Domain anyway to use it at best
advantage.
Gerald Katz
Keith Davies
>
> That I'm ok with, but the character is better off just spending the
> feat for Knowledge Devotion and still have Knowledge Domain. If for
> some particular build you must, must have every feat accounted for
> other things (which I can relate since my current character needed
> precise feats at precise times and I'll still have to retrain a feat
> which did become obsolete), sure go ahead and swap, but I find
> Knowledge Domain way too good to pass up. If you're going to have
> Knowledge Devotion, you need the Domain anyway to use it at best
> advantage.
Hence my suggestion that you can take it in addition to the domain, or
you can take in place of the domain, but can't switch it at an arbitrary
time later. Treat it like a class substitution, if you believe in such
things.
Peter Knutsen
[...]
> The abuse is that even after losing the domain, I would arguably retain
> the benefit of having bought Knowledge skills as class skills. Would you
> allow this?
I think it might be okay, because after that level, any further
Knowledge skills would be purchased at cross-class prices.
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Rast
> If you're going to have
> Knowledge Devotion, you need the Domain anyway to use it at best
> advantage.
Once you have bought the knowledge skills you want, the rest of the
knowledge domain is not worth a full feat. You get +1 caster level on
divination spells, and your domain spells are mostly pretty sad. From a
C.O. point of view, trading away the domain to gain an extra feat is the
right move.
Hadsil
> Hadsil wrote on Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:42:21 -0800 (PST):
>
> > If you're going to have
> > Knowledge Devotion, you need the Domain anyway to use it at best
> > advantage.
>
> Once you have bought the knowledge skills you want, the rest of the
> knowledge domain is not worth a full feat. You get +1 caster level on
> divination spells, and your domain spells are mostly pretty sad. From a
> C.O. point of view, trading away the domain to gain an extra feat is the
> right move.
>
> --
Then the DM is not putting enough emphasis on skills. At 10th level
you're supposed to know everything you didn't know at 1st by
automaking checks even on a 1, but there's still a lot you don't
know. Not even 20th level characters know everything. Monsters you
face become more powerful as you gain levels. If you don't keep up
your knowledge, you won't get the benefits of Knowledge Devotion.
Gerald Katz