3.5e: spell to make you Incorporeal
WDS
Justisaur
> Is there one other than Shapeshift? How about an item?
Etherealness? I seem to remember a wraithform or ghostform
somewhere. It's an extremely useful ability for exploring - for
normal dungeons it's completely broken.
- Justisaur
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
entire dungeon complex, complete with monsters, and even note the guard rosters and
any obvious traps and hear passwords and the like. It might need several castings,
of course.
The only downside is that one cannot readily interact with objects or people on the
Prime Material plane. However I would house rule that items and weapons that had
the /Ghost/ /Touch/ ability would work across the planar interface, as would touch
spells or unarmed strikes (Improved or otherwise) delivered by /Spectral/ /Hand/.
I know that the RAW definition of etherealness allows certain attacks to affect an
ethereal creature,
www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/etherealJaunt.htm
"Force effects and abjurations affect an ethereal creature normally. Their effects
extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa. An
ethereal creature can�t attack material creatures, and spells you cast while
ethereal affect only other ethereal things."
but I have always house ruled that it cuts both ways. Thus Spectral Hand cast on
the Ethereal plane can affect objects on the Prime Material (with similar
limitations to Mage Hand when it came to manipulating objects), and Telekinesis
likewise. Also Ghost Touch in weapons and armour is VERY effective. Force effects
like Spiritual Hammer work well also.
Cheers
JOanna
Justisaur
wrote:
Ah so you decided to make it an "I win" button.
- Justisaur
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
JOanna
Rick Pikul
>> Ah so you decided to make it an "I win" button.
> I beg your pardon? What on earth do you mean?
As in: Do this and you win.
Being able to attack while ethereal is more powerful than being able to
attack someone who is ethereal. This is because being ethereal lets you
bypass most defenses, walk right up to your target, blast him, and walk
out.
It's the same reason that, in Hero, making a power "Affects Desolid" is a
+1/2 advantage while "Affects Real World" is +2.
--
Chakat Firepaw - Inventor & Scientist (Mad)
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
> able to
> attack someone who is ethereal. This is because being ethereal
> lets you
> bypass most defenses, walk right up to your target, blast him, and
> walk
> out.
ability to be ethereal, one's opponents are unlikely to be taken out by a single
such attack, and may well be able to see into the ethereal.
And /Protection from Evil/ (and most other /Protection/ spells) will bar ethereal
weapon attacks altogether, as a creature on the ethereal should be treated the same
as an extra-planar creature.
Also, the weapon or spell used in the attack may give a clue to the location of the
attacker - for example, a Ghost Touch sword could glow with an eldritch light as it
struck, or Magic Missiles could leave "contrails" in the air, allowing the target
to retaliate (if they have the capability).
Cheers
JOanna
Rick Pikul
>> Being able to attack while ethereal is more powerful than being
>> able to
>> attack someone who is ethereal. This is because being ethereal
>> lets you
>> bypass most defenses, walk right up to your target, blast him, and
>> walk
>> out.
> Oh, point conceded. But by the time one has got to the level where one has the
> ability to be ethereal, one's opponents are unlikely to be taken out by a single
> such attack, and may well be able to see into the ethereal.
If a single attack isn't enough, then it's not much of a hardship to hide
in a wall/the floor/the ceiling/etc., circle around and attack again.
Also, by the time Etherealness becomes available a Vorpal Ghost Touch
weapon is well within reach. Heck, since in most cases you'll be able to
make multiple attacks and bleed him to death with a Wounding Ghost Touch
weapon.
This also makes the "needs every specialized defense" problem worse by
making an attacker who stays ethereal yet another thing that could happen
at any time.
> And /Protection from Evil/ (and most other /Protection/ spells) will bar
> ethereal weapon attacks altogether, as a creature on the ethereal should
> be treated the same as an extra-planar creature.
No such luck, those Protection spells stop summoned creatures not
extra-planar ones. They also don't even get protection against summoned
creatures using weapons or spells.
> Also, the weapon or spell used in the attack may give a clue to the
> location of the attacker - for example, a Ghost Touch sword could glow
> with an eldritch light as it struck, or Magic Missiles could leave
> "contrails" in the air, allowing the target to retaliate (if they have
> the capability).
At best, that gives them one round against a target with total concealment.
David Lamb
> On Mon, 03 May 2010 01:45:00 +0100, JOanna Rowland-Stuart wrote:
>> And /Protection from Evil/ (and most other /Protection/ spells) will bar
>> ethereal weapon attacks altogether, as a creature on the ethereal should
>> be treated the same as an extra-planar creature.
>
> No such luck, those Protection spells stop summoned creatures not
> extra-planar ones. They also don't even get protection against summoned
> creatures using weapons or spells.
Perhaps it's worth considering an extension to the rules?
Ubiquitous
>Is there one other than Shapeshift? How about an item?
It's been awhile, but I recall Gasous Form, Blink, and Ethereal Jaunt
do that. Isn't there a Shadow Form spell as well?
======================================================================
ISLAM: Winning the hearts and minds of the world, one bomb at a time.
Ubiquitous
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
I always thought that the reasons summoned creatures were unable to cross
/Protection/ spells was that they were of extra-planar origin?
Cheers
JOanna
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
Cheers
JOanna
WDS
It's because of alignment. For example (and note the exception):
Protection from Evil
Abjuration [Good]
...
Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This
causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the
creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded
creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The
protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded
creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against
the blocked creature. Spell resistance can allow a creature to overcome
this protection and touch the warded creature.
Justisaur
wrote:
> > Being able to attack while ethereal is more powerful than being
> > able to
> > attack someone who is ethereal. This is because being ethereal
> > lets you
> > bypass most defenses, walk right up to your target, blast him, and
> > walk
> > out.
>
> Oh, point conceded. But by the time one has got to the level where one has the
> ability to be ethereal, one's opponents are unlikely to be taken out by a single
> such attack, and may well be able to see into the ethereal.
Whee... You can take out the majority of dragons bypassing all their
lair traps without them having any defenses against you. Unless you
are nearly exclusively fighting similar parties of adventurers it
becomes an "I can attack you, but you can't attack me" weapon & power
combo.
- Justisaur
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
> It's because of alignment.
I suppose /See Invisibility/ would be more useful against ethereal creatures,
especially if made /Permanent/ so that one can see enemies coming.
Also /Forbiddance/ (password option) on one's HQ
As DM I have always house-ruled to allow Protection spells to prevent ethereal and
other extra-planar creatures passing into or out of the spell's area, irrespective
of their alignment.
Cheers
JOanna
Ubiquitous
>In /Gaseous Form/ one can do sweet bugger all other than waft about.
Was it Ghost Form? Wraith Form?
--
It is simply breathtaking to watch the glee and abandon with which
the liberal media and the Angry Left have been attempting to turn
our military victory in Iraq into a second Vietnam quagmire. Too bad
for them, it's failing.
Rick Pikul
>> Perhaps it's worth considering an extension to the rules?
>
> I always thought that the reasons summoned creatures were unable to cross
> /Protection/ spells was that they were of extra-planar origin?
No, note how it also works against summoned creatures which are from the
same plane. Such as an animal brought by a Summon Nature's Ally.
That part of the protection might be best thought of as working on the
'unstable and false presence' of a summoned creature. This means that if
the creature got there by a way other than summoning, (e.g. a Gate), the
creature has a real presence and is thus not blocked.
WDS
It's because of alignment. Creatures of alignment opposed to the
protection can ignore it. For instance Protection from Evil does not
hedge out Good summoned creatures. It's right there in the spell:
"...the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. ... Good
Rick Pikul
> On 5/4/2010 1:27 AM, Rick Pikul wrote:
>> On Mon, 03 May 2010 18:08:00 +0100, JOanna Rowland-Stuart wrote:
>>
>> No, note how it also works against summoned creatures which are from the
>> same plane. Such as an animal brought by a Summon Nature's Ally.
>>
>> That part of the protection might be best thought of as working on the
>> 'unstable and false presence' of a summoned creature. This means that if
>> the creature got there by a way other than summoning, (e.g. a Gate), the
>> creature has a real presence and is thus not blocked.
>
> It's because of alignment. Creatures of alignment opposed to the
> protection can ignore it.
The impact of alignment on the hedging out of summoned creatures is in the
form of an exception. The protection extends to neutral and non-aligned
creatures which have been summoned, and not to the exact same creatures if
they were not summoned.
This means we need a reason other than the alignment based protection for
the effect. The exemption granted to friendlies might be explained as
the otherwise disrupting energy being 'in tune'.
tussock
> In /Gaseous Form/ one can do sweet bugger all other than waft about.
That is why the good lord allowed us to evolve Psionics, no?
--
tussock
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
Many DM's I have gamed with avoid psionics like the plague, after the mish-mosh
that was Psionics in 2e - it wasn't unusual for a Psionic-on-Psionic combat in 2e
to take up a sizeable fraction of the evening's gaming, while the rest of the party
could not do anything, due to the separate timescale of 2e Psionic attacks.
Cheers
JOanna
Harold Groot
I believe you are thinking of psionics from 1E. That's where there
were 10 psionic rounds to each melee round. IIRC, they got rid of
that in 2E.
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
> *From:* que...@infionline.net (Harold Groot)
> *Date:* Mon, 10 May 2010 06:51:21 GMT
> I believe you are thinking of psionics from 1E. That's where there
> were 10 psionic rounds to each melee round. IIRC, they got rid of
> that in 2E.
edition I cut my D&D teeth on.
Cheers
JOanna