"mundane" enhancements
Silveraxe
Then there's the special materials like mithral and adamantite.
...And that's about it.
Really, now, all that intelligence, all those aeons of studying
weapons and armor and combat and the only enhancements available HAVE
to use magic?!?
Calling for a brainstorm: non-magical enhancements for weapons/armor.
Here's a start:
Heavy +X
A heavy weapon is just that: heavier than the usual version, but in a
special way. Whenever you would be able to apply more than your Str
bonus to damage (wielding a weapon two handed, power lunging) you may
add X points of extra Strength bonus to damage, provided you have at
least +X as your Str modifier.
The weapon is X*10% heavier than the normal version and costs 50%
more.
Parrying +X
A parrying weapon has various modifications (basket hilt, quillons,
etc) that make it better at parrying attacks.
When fighting defensively or taking the full defense maneuver, the
wielder may add X points to his AC as a Dodge bonus.
The weapon is X*10% heavier than the normal version and costs 50%
more.
Wicked +X
A wicked weapon is designed to maximize the damage dealt to an enemy.
It might have a jagged edge, extra spikes, barbs, etc.
A wicked weapon's modifier adds to the minimum damage of the weapon.
Thus, a wicked +3 longsword would deal 4 to 8 points of damage and a
wicked +1 greatsword would deal 3 to 12 points of damage.
The weapon cost 50% more than the normal version.
Thick +X
A thick armor has extra layers of protection over the most vulnerable
areas.
The armor bonus such an armor grants, as well as the armor check
penalty it imposes, increase by X, however the armor type (light,
medium, heavy) does not change.
The armor is X*20% heavier than the normal version and costs 50% more
to make.
Comments?
Other ideas?
What would be a good maximum value for X? 5? 3?
Silveraxe.
Tim Fitzmaurice
> Really, now, all that intelligence, all those aeons of studying
> weapons and armor and combat and the only enhancements available HAVE
> to use magic?!?
Well basically most of the fancy stuff you might think of requires a
variation in weapon design, and use...hence almost immediately introduces
candidates for Exotic weapon proficiencies which would rather efficiently
model such changes by special weapon effects, or at the least, weight siz
and damage/critical changes. It might be an idea to list a set of stats
for exotic weapons and a 'equivalent' effect that someone proficient in
martial or possible simple weapons can get out of them....so one of these
heavy weapons might be classed as a Bastard sword for non proficient user
but useable one handed by an exotic weapon proficiency purchase. In fact
now I mention it I think this may even be precisely the way that Wheel of
Time does the Warder's Sword.
> Heavy +X
> A heavy weapon is just that: heavier than the usual version, but in a
> special way. Whenever you would be able to apply more than your Str
> bonus to damage (wielding a weapon two handed, power lunging) you may
> add X points of extra Strength bonus to damage, provided you have at
> least +X as your Str modifier.
> The weapon is X*10% heavier than the normal version and costs 50%
> more.
I would do this differently assuming it becomes a function of weapon
design rather than the proficiency system I mention above - firstly 10%
extra weight isnt enough I think - it would have to be 30-50%. Secondly I
would make it essentially operate as a 1 or 2 point power attack -
allowing and forcing the wielder to operate the feat at that level.
> Parrying +X
> A parrying weapon has various modifications (basket hilt, quillons,
> etc) that make it better at parrying attacks.
> When fighting defensively or taking the full defense maneuver, the
> wielder may add X points to his AC as a Dodge bonus.
Why go so far - spiked bucklers are in the game, simply allow specific
parrying weapons to give an AC bonus if not use for an off hand attack. It
really doesnt matter where the spiky bits are just. TO all game mechanics
intents and purposes this is spiked buckler that runs off of a martial
weapon feat rather than a shield feat (and if the spiky buckler needs an
exotic weapon feat IDNHTBIFOM, then equally I'd go that way with the
parrying daggers).
> Wicked +X
> A wicked weapon is designed to maximize the damage dealt to an enemy.
> It might have a jagged edge, extra spikes, barbs, etc.
> A wicked weapon's modifier adds to the minimum damage of the weapon.
> Thus, a wicked +3 longsword would deal 4 to 8 points of damage and a
> wicked +1 greatsword would deal 3 to 12 points of damage.
> The weapon cost 50% more than the normal version.
A number of bits here might b in order - penalties to hit perhaps,
initiative penalties after a strike representing the difficulty of getting
the thing out, escape artist check to hang onto the weapon after a hit,
CHA penalties while its used, synergy bonus to intimidate, if you use
Wheel of Time - reputation effects, and last possibly a higher critical
rating for automatic loss of the weapon in the target - all these might
work.
> Thick +X
> A thick armor has extra layers of protection over the most vulnerable
> areas.
> The armor bonus such an armor grants, as well as the armor check
> penalty it imposes, increase by X, however the armor type (light,
> medium, heavy) does not change.
> The armor is X*20% heavier than the normal version and costs 50% more
> to make.
Is this really any different to taking plate mail and making up to say
half plate or full plate? Again rather than adding features to armour I'd
make new armour types. If you were to use the above then I would REALLY
want to see an increase in the armour type (light to medium to heavy) as
one of the prime ways of piling more protection onto vulnerable areas as
you describe is to restrict movement by sticking thick pieces on the
joints.
I feel that if you were to be doing thicker plating (ie think breastplates
that are 2 inches thick) then the penalties should be added and then
possibly a DR effect, or a reduction in threat range of the attackers
weapon or a reduction in damage dice or similar would be a better way to
make this armour unique
> Comments?
See above
> Other ideas?
Specialised armour - Take a suit and make it paricularly good at
protecting against the main types of attack - eg thickened plate, -2
Damage v slashing, piercing can still hit joints so no effect, and the
extra weight does nothing but addd extra momentum for bludgeoning so +2
damage (or possibly since they have spent so much money on it -2 v slash,
less joints so -1 for pierce, and only +1 for bludgeoning). Allow those
numbers to be shuffled around - frankly its a bit complicated I think but
some people will go for it.
Straight out of Wheel of Time, masterwork, you know, they add masterpiece
- even more expensive - double the benefit, works for tools, items,
weapons, etc etc.
> What would be a good maximum value for X? 5? 3?
I'd suggest 2 but could see a case for 3 - above that I think you need
something to keep magic special and there is only so far the laws of
physics can be pushed...once you get armour up to +4 level by mundane
means then frankly you would do better to be developing it through other
systems - eg cover rules and making it an object to lift and carry - or a
trap item rahter than a hand held weapon.
Tim
--
When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart
ICQ: 5178568
Legion
home. And here avidrol...@yahoo.com (Silveraxe) wrote on 12 May
2003 03:47:33 -0700:
> Ok, we have mighty bows and whips and masterwork weapons and armor.
> Then there's the special materials like mithral and adamantite.
> ...And that's about it.
>
> Really, now, all that intelligence, all those aeons of studying
> weapons and armor and combat and the only enhancements available HAVE
> to use magic?!?
>
> Calling for a brainstorm: non-magical enhancements for weapons/armor.
<snip>
> Comments?
> Other ideas?
IIRC the sword of Severian in the Gene Wolfe books (called 'Terminus
Est') was a mundane sword, yet a lot more powerful.
This partial hollow blade was filled with mercury. Apparently this
made the swing really powerful because of the centrifugal force which
caused the mercury to shift to the point end of the blade.
--
Robin
It was quite simple
If God could be god,
Why couldn't I?
Tim Fitzmaurice
> This partial hollow blade was filled with mercury. Apparently this
> made the swing really powerful because of the centrifugal force which
> caused the mercury to shift to the point end of the blade.
Erm, I am sure I have rules for this in 1 or 2E from a Dragon lying around
somewhere...always wondered where they got the idea for it
R. Scott Rogers
> On Mon, 12 May 2003, Legion wrote:
>
>> This partial hollow blade was filled with mercury. Apparently this
>> made the swing really powerful because of the centrifugal force which
>> caused the mercury to shift to the point end of the blade.
>
> Erm, I am sure I have rules for this in 1 or 2E from a Dragon lying around
> somewhere...always wondered where they got the idea for it
IIRC, "Sword and Fist" introduced the Mercurial Greatsword as an exotic
weapon.
OT, I'm in the midst of the Severian books right now - almost to the end of
book three - and while the story/plot seems crap, the writing is remarkably
good. So far the narrative sophistication has been almost in the same league
as, say, Thomas Pynchon, and so just reading it has offered rewards that
more than compensate for what has been so far a very disappointing plot.
IOW, I really don't care what happens to any of the characters, except maybe
Dorcas, but I can't put the book(s) down.
Cheers,
Scott
--
R. Scott Rogers
scott at madforjam.com
R. Scott Rogers
> Ok, we have mighty bows and whips and masterwork weapons and armor.
> Then there's the special materials like mithral and adamantite.
> ...And that's about it.
>
> Really, now, all that intelligence, all those aeons of studying
> weapons and armor and combat and the only enhancements available HAVE
> to use magic?!?
...
> Comments?
Some of these weapons, maybe all of them, would seem to require
reclassification as exotic.
<digression>So why does using a weapon with which you are not proficient
always carry a -4 mod to hit? Sometimes it seems as though it would be more
sensible to modify the damage done with a hit rather than preventing the
hit, but perhaps this is asking for too much realism from a relatively
abstract system. Granularity and whatnot.</digression>
I like the idea of Wicked increasing the minimum damage. I assume this new
minimum simply substitutes for the current minimum of 1. So wielding a +1
Wicked butterknife would not convey any benefit over a normal butterknife to
anyone with a STR bonus greater than 0.
> Other ideas?
Glass. No tengo el libro delante de mí, so I can't offer a detailed and
balanced write-up, but Piercing and Slashing melee weapons could be made
with glass blades, as in Stephenson's "Snow Crash." (I have no idea whether
this is feasible in real life, and I haven't been particularly impressed
with the ceramic kitchen knives I've used, but it's a cool concept anyway.)
The glass blade would grant +X to damage against flatfooted opponents or
opponents not wearing Plate (or stone) armor but -X to damage against
non-flatfooted opponents wearing plate (or stone) armor. Perhaps it would
also be treated as a +1 magical weapon for countering DR. Something like
that, but no doubt someone who has more recently read "Snow Crash" and/or
actually has the PHB handy could do a much better job.
I suspect there is some fun to be had with different kinds of wood for
making q-staffs and clubs. These mods would be very slight, but still you
can feel the difference when you use baseball bats made of different woods.
Perhaps some special woods would grant a +1 bonus to hit, while others would
grant a +1 bonus to damage, or perhaps each one would offer offsetting
advantages. Anyway I know that maple and ash bats handle differently from
one another, and that oak bokken handle differently from ash or maple bats
of similar dimensions.
Same could be said of maces, I suppose. I may be wrong about this, but if I
had to have a battle of metal clubs against somebody I'd rather have an
aluminum baseball bat than a steel or iron mace of equal size. Anyway I can
hit a baseball a heck of a lot more accurately and further with even a cheap
metal bat than with a heavier wooden one. My swing is faster and more
accurate, and the difference in speed more than makes up for the difference
in mass in the whole velocity*mass equation. (I therefore use wooden bats at
the batting cage for practice.) If the lighter weapon makes my attempts to
hit a baseball more effective, why would it not make my attempts to hit an
orc's head more effective? (Probably some very good reasons for this, but I
don't know them.) My experience as a little league coach also convinces me
of the general benefit of lighter clubs to maximize speed, accuracy, and
power. Perhaps a particularly light metal or hollow construction could allow
an additional attack per round at a relatively low BAB, or perhaps just add
+X to hit to simulate the ease of swinging a lighter metal stick versus a
heavier one.
> What would be a good maximum value for X? 5? 3?
Maximum bonus of +2 for modifications to hit, maximum of +1 to modifications
to damage. Seems to me that non-magic "mundane enchantments" should
essentially offer +1 over Masterwork. Anything higher seems like inflation
to me.
Jay Knioum
> Ok, we have mighty bows and whips and masterwork weapons and armor.
> Then there's the special materials like mithral and adamantite.
> ...And that's about it.
>
> Really, now, all that intelligence, all those aeons of studying
> weapons and armor and combat and the only enhancements available HAVE
> to use magic?!?
Well, Savage Species has some interesting variants for monsters;
three-handed weapons, legless armors and whatnot. I like the
hedge-clipper thingie that mariliths are supposed to use. :)
Back in 2e, I had an anthropomorphic animal race that used
unique-to-the-individual weapons with special characteristics. Each
individual was trained almost from birth with their specific weapon,
and each was molded from an ultra-strong alloy that the race had
perfected, so breakage was rarely a problem.
Anyway, these weapons had things like multiple blades,
throwing-balance (designed to return to thrower on a miss), hinges for
leverage (critical hit could remove an opponent's limb), hidden extra
weapons like darts, shuriken, whips, or nets, could seperate into a
chain-linked horror, etc.
Another humanoid race, descended from dragons, used heavier,
saw-bladed weapons and hooked spears and arrows for maximum
discomfort. The weapons were designed not only to tear into flesh,
but to remove scales from enemies, which were most often of the same
race, if not actual dragons.
Back in the human lands, they were playing with gunpowder, up to and
including American Civil War levels of technology. Musket variants
with multiple, rotating barrels and small, double-barreled pistols
with short sword blades mounted between the barrels are becoming less
novel and more common in that world's "present day." I stuck with a
sense of "fantasy realism" more than historical realism, obviously.
This is the same world in which I run 3e now, but since my recent
campaigns have taken place in that world's past, I haven't really
messed with guns much.
> Comments?
> Other ideas?
> What would be a good maximum value for X? 5? 3?
I usually don't exceed +2 as a nonmagical bonus, and tend toward
situation-specific benefits (can be thrown, special bonus against
scaled creatures, can be hidden easily, etc.).
--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro
dana
Corked clubs.
cheers,
D
jere7my tho?rpe
"R. Scott Rogers" <sc...@madforjam.com> wrote:
> OT, I'm in the midst of the Severian books right now - almost to the end of
> book three - and while the story/plot seems crap, the writing is remarkably
> good.
Actually, imho, the plot is quite exceptional, but what's really
going on is only hinted at -- at first glance, it looks like a
picaresque journey through unrelated weirdnesses, but everything is
really quite tightly woven. People have been discussing it since its
publication; you should be able to find some comments on the web.
----j7y
--
*************************************************************************
jere7my tho?rpe / 734-769-0913 "Homo sum: humani nihil a me
Remove .boffo to reply via email alienum puto." ---Terentius
Silveraxe
> OT, I'm in the midst of the Severian books right now - almost to the end of
> book three - and while the story/plot seems crap, the writing is remarkably
> good.
Also OT:
Yeah, isn't Gene Wolfe cool?
You should try his other trilogy (or so...) Soldier of the Mist, about
this Ancient Greek soldier who gets smacked upside the head and
forgets everything every night when he goes to sleep.
So he starts keeping a journal, and the books are his journal.
I don't remember anything about the books, but I do remember that they
were SO well written.
Silveraxe
Rupert Boleyn
carved onto a tablet of ether:
>"R. Scott Rogers" <sc...@madforjam.com> wrote in message news:<BAE58C4C.10857%sc...@madforjam.com>...
>> OT, I'm in the midst of the Severian books right now - almost to the end of
>> book three - and while the story/plot seems crap, the writing is remarkably
>> good.
>
>Also OT:
>Yeah, isn't Gene Wolfe cool?
>You should try his other trilogy (or so...) Soldier of the Mist, about
>this Ancient Greek soldier who gets smacked upside the head and
>forgets everything every night when he goes to sleep.
Not Greek - he's an early Roman.
--
Rupert Boleyn <rbo...@paradise.net.nz>
The media industry is a long, dark, narrow hallway where thieves and
pimps run free and good people die like dogs.
There's also a negative side.
Jessica Knoch
>
> Really, now, all that intelligence, all those aeons of studying
> weapons and armor and combat and the only enhancements available HAVE
> to use magic?!?
>
> Calling for a brainstorm: non-magical enhancements for weapons/armor.
As far as armor goes, WotC's Arms and Equipment Guide has some
nifty materials and things that aren't magical enhancements. I
haven't gotten as far as the weapons chapter yet, but the armor
looked good, for what it was. There were materials like coral,
stone, leaves (specially hardened with chemicals), and some
really odd "chaos-stuff" armor that my husband seemed to like,
with some sort of nostalgia for the old days. Don't have the
book with me. Worth a look though.
--
Jess K.
Courtney Love
book three - and while the story/plot seems crap, the writing is remarkably
good. So far the narrative sophistication has been almost in the same league
as, say, Thomas Pynchon, and so just reading it has offered rewards that
more than compensate for what has been so far a very disappointing plot.
IOW, I really don't care what happens to any of the characters, except maybe
I think the four volumes (Shadow of the Torturer, Claw of the Conciliator,
Sword of the Lictor, and Citadel of the Autarch) are amongst the finest pieces
of modern science fiction ever written. Most people tend to get put off by his
use of anachronistic words like "Hexaemeron," "tribade," and "epopt," but for
me that's what makes them alluring.
Don't forget to read the fifth one, "The Urth of the New Sun" as well.
"Justice is as strictly due between neighbor nations as between neighbor
citizens. A highwayman is as much a robber when he plunders in a gang, as when
single; and a nation that makes an unjust war is only a great gang."
--Benjamin Franklin