GREYHAWK Circle of Eight
moo...@shrsys.hslc.org
Looking at the suggested replacements, I agree that Philidor
is just to odd a guy to make it. I think Jason Krimeah could make it
if it weren't for Drawmij and his paranoia.
I didn't buy the explanation of Rary "going over to the dark side"
that was given in Rary the Traitor either. It seemed like they were saying he
just woke up evil one day. Then again, I also doubt his sanity on going into
a desert to start a kingdom. I mean really, if you're going to start a
kingdom, a desert really isn't prime real estate. I myself was suspecting
some Scarlet Brotherhood plot, but the "mother" explination could work too.
Mike Moolick
Gregory Bernath
the fixes suggested, as well as references. Here goes:
High Level Mages of Greyhawk
25 NG Philidor the Blue Wizard (Highfolk/Vesve forest/Greyhawk) [5][3]
24 NE Rary the Traitor (Bright Desert, originally from Ket) [4][6]
20 N Mordenkainen (Circle of 6/Obsidian Citadel in Yatil Mountains) [6]
19 CG Shemeya (The Tower of Sleep, Bright Desert) [4]
19 LG Ghiselinn (Nyrond) [3]
19 NE(N) Jaran Krimeeah*, the Black One (Mage of the Valley) [7][6]
19 LE Karoolck, Imperial Court Mage (Rauxes, Aerdy) [1]
19 LE(NE) Prince Lakaster (Winetha, Aerdy) [1]
19 NE(LE) Graf Reydrich (South Province, Aerdy) [1]
18 N Bigby (Circle of 6/pre-war Onnwal/currently Veluna) [6][2]
18 NG Kieran Jalucian, Guildmaster (Greyhawk) [6]
18 N(NG) Karzalin {fire elementalist} (Furyondy) [3]
18 N Warnes Starcoat, Councilor to the Joint Courts (Urnst) [9]
18 N Morrkend {enchanter} (North Province, Aerdy) [1]
18 CE(NE) Null (Iuz) [2]
18 CE(CN) Jumper {illusionist} (Iuz) [2]
18 NE Kermin Mind-Bender (Iuz) [2]
18 NE Dahlvier <lich> (Horned Lands) [2]
17 N The Grey Seer {diviner} (Nyrond) [3]
16 N Drawmij (Circle of 6/undersea fortress near Keoland) [6]
16 N Nystul (Circle of 6/pre-war Tenh/currently Greyhawk?) [6]
16 LG Tobin Potriades, Senior Tutor (Greyhawk) [6]
16 NE Xaene the Accursed <lich> (Rauxes, Aerdy?) [8]
16 CE Vayne (Iuz, Shield Lands) [2]
15 CE Kaquizel the Snake <drow male> {diviner} (Iuz) [2]
15 NE Jireen of the Five <animus> (Rel Astra, Aerdy) [1]
15 NE Prince Ferrenan <vampire> {necromancer} (Western Lands, Aerdy) [1]
14 N(NG) Otto, also pr5 (Circle of 6/pre-war Almor/currently Greyhawk?) [6]
14 NG Jallarzi Sallivarian (Circle of 6/Greyhawk/Urnst) [6]
14 NG? Ryshanden {air elementalist} (Furyondy) [3]
14 NE Overking Ivid V <animus>, also pr7 (Rauxes, Aerdy) [1]
14 NE(CE) Cranzer of Riftcrag (Iuz, Bandit Kingdoms) [2]
* This is the spelling used in the City of Greyhawk set and Greyhawk
Adventures hardback. In WG12, it's spelled "Jason Krimeah".
Honorable mentions:
Gwydiesin of the Cranes N(NG), a 30th level bard, has spell casting
abilities on par with an archmage (Grandwood/Lone Heath, Aerdy). [1]
The Spectre is an ancient, non-corporeal elf who can cast at 19th level,
though he never leaves his house (Shroudgate, which moves to various
places in the Almorian lands). [1]
Azalin the Lich (LE), 18th level, currently trapped in Ravenloft, is a
native of Aerdy in Greyhawk. [10]
Iggwilv, necromancer and mother of Iuz, is held prisoner in the abyss
by the demon lord Grazz't. [2][12]
Keraptis is possibly still under White Plume Mountain. [11]
Other mages of note that haven't been named probably exist in:
Baklunish Lands
Elven Kingdoms - Celene, Lendore Isle, Grey elves of the Vesve.
Drow of Erelhei Cinlu
The Scarlet Brotherhood
Sea of Dust/Hellfurnaces area (Suel/Bakluni empire era liches)
Dyvers, Sunndi, Irongate, Keoland
Aerdy, Greyhawk, Furyondy, Nyrond, Urnst (probably no more archmages,
but there's a good chance a few in the 14-17 range got missed.)
References:
[1] Ivid the Undying
[2] WGR5 Iuz the Evil
[3] WGR4 The Marklands
[4] WGR3 Rary the Traitor
[5] From the Ashes boxed set
[6] City of Greyhawk boxed set
[7] WG12 The Valley of the Mage
[8] WG8 Fate of Istus
[9] WG6 Isle of the Ape
[10] RQ3 From the Shadows
[11] S2 White Plume Mountain
[12] S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth
As Erik Mona mentioned, Warnes Starcoat looks like a suitable addition
to the circle, though he needs some fleshing out.
Krimeeah is the interesting one. Getting him to join up could make a good
adventure. Players have to figure out why Drawmij hates him so much
(probably requiring a trip to his undersea lair), fix that problem
somehow, and then take another trip to the Valley to convince The Black
One.
And now, a special Greyhawk trivia question:
Why did the wizard Mellard-Plict (12th level) move to the Vast Swamp
and take up service with Wastri? (and what TSR source is this from?)
--
Greg Bernath gber...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
moo...@shrsys.hslc.org
Looking at the expanded candidate list, I can't help but notice
the Grey Seer of Nyrond. There are several reason he might want to join,
not the lease of which being the impovrished and threatened nature of his
country. Now he doesn't look like a social type by any means, but he
could probably use a peer group and since he is a diviner its a good bet he
knows that the Circle is looking from a few mages.
The Circle, in addition to gaining another memeber, can get
several things. I don't think any of them are from Nyrond ( though I
could be wrong ) and the country's geographical importance if Iuz decides
to push into the shattered Great Kingdom is obvious. Further, with Rary's
betrayal the circle has lost the memberof its number most skilled at
divinatory magics ( look at the spells Rary made in Greyhawk Adventures and
you'll see the point ).
Also - a thing to ponder. How did Otto research Otto's Irresistable
Dance if he isn't high enough level to cast it? ( 14th level, 8th level
spell ). This seems to indicate he had an undead encounter and couldn't
get Restored. Anybody know for sure what's up with this?
Mike Moolick
Gregory Bernath
> Also - a thing to ponder. How did Otto research Otto's Irresistable
>Dance if he isn't high enough level to cast it? ( 14th level, 8th level
>spell ). This seems to indicate he had an undead encounter and couldn't
>get Restored. Anybody know for sure what's up with this?
Even worse, Serten is a single-class cleric (see _The Rogues Gallery_),
which would make it difficult to research _Serten's Spell Immunity_, an
8th level wizard spell.
Best guess is that nobody was paying attention to the details when
they put these spells in the player's handbook.
In Otto's case, I'll attempt a rationalization. Otto is an expert
in the relationship between the laws of magic and the structure of
music. Therefore, Otto's Dance (which places an irresistable music
in the subjects mind, forcing it to dance) is merely a seventh level
spell for Otto, but eight level for all others. (I know, it's not a
perfect explanation, but hey, this is fantasy.)
In Serten's case, I'll just propose that he had the idea for the
spell, but someone else wrote it.
--
Greg Bernath gber...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
bax...@hookup.net
> Gregory Bernath (gber...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu) wrote:
>
> : Even worse, Serten is a single-class cleric (see _The Rogues Gallery_),
> : which would make it difficult to research _Serten's Spell Immunity_, an
> : 8th level wizard spell.
> and one of his friends who was a mage researched a spell, after studying
> the effects of Serten's new-found ability? *shrug*
Most of the Rogue's Gallery types weren't presented at the heights of
their power. For example, I think Bigby's in there at too low a level to create
most of the Bigby's hand spells, IIRC.
So one of things to remember is that Serten could well have developed
into a mage much later in life. Another is that Gygax didn't actually play
AD&D; it's quite possible that in his campaign, Serten was a mage/cleric
type that translated best as a pure cleric for the Rogue's Gallery.
Finally, a lot of the high-level Greyhawk types were just short of gods; if
Serten ascended to that level, he's not bound by mortal rules any more.
I believe Mordenkainen was supposed to be around that level, too.
> Jason
email: bax...@hookup.net Scott Baxter
web: http://www.hookup.net/~baxter
Promise from the Win '95 theme song: "You make a grown man cry!"
Brett D Altschul
Gregory Bernath <gber...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> wrote:
>In article <22SEP95....@shrsys.hslc.org> moo...@shrsys.hslc.org writes:
>> Also - a thing to ponder. How did Otto research Otto's Irresistable
>>Dance if he isn't high enough level to cast it?
> Even worse, Serten is a single-class cleric (see _The Rogues Gallery_),
>which would make it difficult to research _Serten's Spell Immunity_, an
>8th level wizard spell.
> Best guess is that nobody was paying attention to the details when
>they put these spells in the player's handbook.
Um...your chronology is rather off. These spells were around before anybody
came up with stats for these characters. Gygax wouldn't publish stats for
characters that were in active use in his campaign. IIRC, most of the major
players in Greyhawk didn't get official stats until 2nd edition.
BTW, Mordenkainen was a PC of Gygax's. Tenser was also a PC.
Demon Sultan of Khaipur
Brett Altschul
Deanna Hatter
: Even worse, Serten is a single-class cleric (see _The Rogues Gallery_),
: which would make it difficult to research _Serten's Spell Immunity_, an
: 8th level wizard spell.
Maybe it was an ability he gained from an artifact at one time,
and one of his friends who was a mage researched a spell, after studying
the effects of Serten's new-found ability? *shrug*
Jason
verkuilen john v
>Most of the Rogue's Gallery types weren't presented at the heights of
>their power. For example, I think Bigby's in there at too low a level to create
>most of the Bigby's hand spells, IIRC.
True, I haven't checked in my copy of Rogue's Gallery recently, but I think
Bigby is 9th level. In Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure he's 9th level and
Mordenkainen is 12th level (I did look at this recently).
>So one of things to remember is that Serten could well have developed
>into a mage much later in life. Another is that Gygax didn't actually play
>AD&D; it's quite possible that in his campaign, Serten was a mage/cleric
>type that translated best as a pure cleric for the Rogue's Gallery.
According to RG1, Serten had an INT of 7.
>Finally, a lot of the high-level Greyhawk types were just short of gods; if
>Serten ascended to that level, he's not bound by mortal rules any more.
>I believe Mordenkainen was supposed to be around that level, too.
Um, they're not beyond the power of mortals, just tough. In the second
edition, Mordenkainen is 20th level and Bigby is 18th level.
--
Jay Verkuilen ja...@uiuc.edu
"A human society without conflict would be a society not of friends, but of
ants." --Sir Karl Popper, _Unended Quest_
Gregory Bernath
>Another is that Gygax didn't actually play AD&D;
I'm curious. On page 2 of Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure, Gygax
specifically states that he does play (as of 1984). Was Gygax pulling
our leg, or is "Gygax didn't play" just a rumor?
--
Greg Bernath gber...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
Brett D Altschul
Gregory Bernath <gber...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu> wrote:
>I'm curious. On page 2 of Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure, Gygax
>specifically states that he does play (as of 1984). Was Gygax pulling
>our leg, or is "Gygax didn't play" just a rumor?
Gygax did play AD&D, but not that often. He mostly played something very simi-
lar to AD&D, but it wasn't AD&D. Gygax had a very narrow definition of AD&D,
and his main Greyhawk campaign didn't qualify.
bax...@hookup.net
> In article <44141p$c...@noc.tor.hookup.net> bax...@hookup.net writes:
>
> >Another is that Gygax didn't actually play AD&D;
>
> specifically states that he does play (as of 1984). Was Gygax pulling
> our leg, or is "Gygax didn't play" just a rumor?
Once TSR's official policy became "you play AD&D, or you play something
else", Gygax was relegated to not playing AD&D, because he used rules
other than those in the books (as did every other AD&D player I've ever
met). One of Gygax's buddies - I think Frank Mentzer, but that's just from
memory - even mentioned in a Dragon opinion piece that Gygax didn't
play AD&D because it was "too restrictive".
So it's sort of cheating to say he didn't play AD&D. It'd be more accurate
to say "Gygax used a wide array of optional rules that extended and
replaced those existing in TSR's published AD&D rulebooks at the time,
and as such played a variant version of AD&D which, by TSR's official
policy of the time, was not AD&D." But that's way too much typing, and
makes me sound like a lawyer or TSR employee.
> --
> Greg Bernath gber...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
Mark Van Cott
Actually, I've seen some of those old AD&D trading cards and I
think not a one of them is under 21st level.
Mark Van Cott