Forgotten Realms:Kelemvor Help?
David Caudill
I haven't played AD&D since right after 2nd edition came out, so I am
way behind. A friend of mine has started up a FR campaign and I have
decided to play a Specialty Priest of Kelemvor. However, I am almost
totally ignorant about FR, Kelemvor, the Time of Trouble (I think that's
what he called it), etc. I have read the Fauiths & Avatars entry on
Kelemvor, but that's about it. Are there any good websites with info on
Kelemvor or the Time of Troubles? Any help is appreciated.
--
--
David Caudill <ferret...@earthlink.net>
Fumblor
Here's the cliff notes version:
Long ago there was Jergal who had the portfolio of death, murder, dying,
strife and a few others I forget. He *retired* and passed on his duties to
the mortals Bane(strife), Bhaal(murder) and Myrkul(death and dying). Then
some time passed.
The time of the troubles occurred, Lord Ao got really angry and cast down
all the gods into avatar forms for a time. Mystra, mistress of magic passed
her portfolio to the wizard Midnight. The mortal Cyric bested the three gods
Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul and stole their powers. Kelemvor got run through
with a sword (the avatar of Mask?) and his spirit was stuck there inside it
for a while.
Some more time passed, Cyric usurped the position of god of lies and Kelemvor
was freed from the sword of mask. Kelemvor then led an uprising of the dead
against Cyric and won the position of lord of the dead.
--
Fumblor
Loren Davis
"Fumblor" wrote:
> "David Caudill" wrote:
> > I haven't played AD&D since right after 2nd edition came out, so I
am
> > way behind. A friend of mine has started up a FR campaign and I have
> > decided to play a Specialty Priest of Kelemvor. However, I am almost
> > totally ignorant about FR, Kelemvor, the Time of Trouble (I think
that's
> > what he called it), etc. I have read the Fauiths & Avatars entry on
> > Kelemvor, but that's about it. Are there any good websites with info on
> > Kelemvor or the Time of Troubles? Any help is appreciated.
I'm also playing a cleric of Kelemvor. The basic information is in the
FRCS itself, particularly the section on Cosmology, but Faiths and
Pantheons is invaluable for anyone playing a cleric in the Realms. Among
other things, it describes how Kelemvor's faith is organized, what its
goals and rituals are, its relations with the rest of the pantheon, a new
prestige class, domain and spells specifically for priests of Kelemvor. If
your DM owns a copy, borrow it. If he doesn't, buy one and lend it to him
once you've finished your character sheet.
> Here's the cliff notes version:
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> Long ago there was Jergal who had the portfolio of death, murder, dying,
> strife and a few others I forget. He *retired* and passed on his duties
to
> the mortals Bane(strife), Bhaal(murder) and Myrkul(death and dying).
Then
> some time passed.
Jergal is still around, showing Kelemvor the ropes.
> The time of the troubles occurred, Lord Ao got really angry and cast down
> all the gods into avatar forms for a time. Mystra, mistress of magic
passed
> her portfolio to the wizard Midnight. The mortal Cyric bested the three
gods
> Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul and stole their powers. Kelemvor got run through
> with a sword (the avatar of Mask?) and his spirit was stuck there inside
it
> for a while.
This happened, fourteen years ago as of F&P's timeline, in the Avatar
Trilogy, the work of three co-authors. It's an average example of game
fiction, which is to say that I don't recommend it on its own merits. I
still see copies at used bookstores all the time, if you're interested. I
re-read it at the start of this campaign, and the most interesting thing I
noticed was how much Cyric has changed. It would be going too far to say
that the later books ruined the character. He was never really anything
more than the Thief Who Can't Be Trusted, but that was still less
one-dimensional than the Crazy Evil Overlord he became. At one point, he
had the potential to be a fun villain, or would have if a fourth, better
writer had jumped in and handled all his later scenes.
> Some more time passed, Cyric usurped the position of god of lies and
Kelemvor
> was freed from the sword of mask. Kelemvor then led an uprising of the
dead
> against Cyric and won the position of lord of the dead.
This is probably what happened in my campaign and yours, but it's not
quite what happened in _Prince_of_Lies_ (four years ago by F&P's timeline).
The first time I read that book, it was because a friend, who's now my
group's DM, told me it was the most absurd, most implausible, absolute
worst depiction of a Fantasy pantheon he'd ever seen. I agreed with him,
and so when it came to preparing for his campaign, I didn't pay any
attention to the book, since it didn't seem likely that the DM would
either.
Another thread in this group prompted me to re-read it, and it was
just as bad as I remembered. The worst idea in the book -- from the
perspective either of a gamer looking for background information, a reader
with an interest in mythology, or someone looking for a good story -- is
that it presents the gods, the main characters of the book, as idiot
savants who simply cannot comprehend anything not directly related to their
individual portfolios, not even an obvious threat to their own existences.
They spend the entire book doing stupid god tricks for either Cyric, Mystra
or both, whichever way suits the plot. At one point, all the gods, led by
Tyr, intervene on Cyric's behalf, knowing that this is tantamount to
suicide, on the grounds that, because evil things are in Cyric's portfolio,
it's right for Cyric to do evil things and wrong for Mystra to stop him. At
another, Cyric waltzes into Oghma's home, teleports the first person he
sees to the Abyss, and demands to be given a particular spell. Oghma gives
it to him for free, and does nothing to rescue his own petitioner, because
learning is in his portfolio.
But I digress. One of the two main subplots of the book is Cyric's
search for the soul of Kelemvor, who was then Mystra's dead boyfriend. His
plan is to use his position as Lord of the Dead to torture Kelemvor
unjustly for all eternity. Let me reiterate, since this will be important,
that this is his master plan all the way through the book, more important
to him even than his scheme to take over the world with his ghost-written
memoirs. He goes to ridiculously self-destructive lengths to find Kelemvor.
He accidentally convinces his own disgruntled servants that, if Cyric, who
isn't afraid of all the gods put together, is so obsessed with capturing a
dead mortal, then this Kelemvor they've never heard of must be the most
amazing guy in the multiverse. Cyric, in brief, wants to find Kelemvor.
So, in the last chapter, Cyric does, by total accident, find Kelemvor.
(Mask was hiding him, for no apparent reason other than that hiding things
is in his portfolio. Supposedly, he was going to be a bargaining chip, but
Mask doesn't cash him in even when Cyric would do anything to find Kelemvor
and it looks as if Cyric's about to become God with a capital G.) At the
very moment this happens, Cyric is, A: under a curse which makes him think
that he, Cyric, is invincible, B: in the underworld, C: aware that he
himself, as part of his plan, made it impossible for any Power to enter the
underworld, D: aware that Kelemvor is a dead human, whereas Cyric is the
greater god who rules the underworld, and E: just finished being reminded
by Jergal, the former ruler of the underworld and current flunky, that
Cyric does indeed rule the underworld and should never ever forget that
fact or Bad Things will happen. Kelemvor shows up, and swings at Cyric with
his bare fists.
Cyric panics, forgets about the underworld, runs away and locks
himself out.
No sourcebook that I've seen has ever, except in the vaguest possible
terms, retold the story of how Kelemvor became the god of death. In this
week's game session, when my character was asked this very question, he
just said that he had never heard an adequate explanation himself.
I was going to write more, but, on reflection, that would be
pointless.
Fumblor
I wouldn't trust all the facts from a book called Prince_of_Lies, however,
"trial of cyric the mad" seems to confirm a few of them.
> Another thread in this group prompted me to re-read it, and it was
> just as bad as I remembered. The worst idea in the book -- from the
> perspective either of a gamer looking for background information, a reader
> with an interest in mythology, or someone looking for a good story -- is
> that it presents the gods, the main characters of the book, as idiot
> savants who simply cannot comprehend anything not directly related to their
> individual portfolios, not even an obvious threat to their own existences.
> They spend the entire book doing stupid god tricks for either Cyric, Mystra
> or both, whichever way suits the plot. At one point, all the gods, led by
> Tyr, intervene on Cyric's behalf, knowing that this is tantamount to
> suicide, on the grounds that, because evil things are in Cyric's portfolio,
> it's right for Cyric to do evil things and wrong for Mystra to stop him. At
> another, Cyric waltzes into Oghma's home, teleports the first person he
> sees to the Abyss, and demands to be given a particular spell. Oghma gives
> it to him for free, and does nothing to rescue his own petitioner, because
> learning is in his portfolio.
What should Oghma do? Throw a library at cyric? Naah, he'll probably wait
for the next revolt in hell to get his petitioner back.
> But I digress. One of the two main subplots of the book is Cyric's
> search for the soul of Kelemvor, who was then Mystra's dead boyfriend. His
> plan is to use his position as Lord of the Dead to torture Kelemvor
> unjustly for all eternity. Let me reiterate, since this will be important,
> that this is his master plan all the way through the book, more important
> to him even than his scheme to take over the world with his ghost-written
> memoirs. He goes to ridiculously self-destructive lengths to find Kelemvor.
> He accidentally convinces his own disgruntled servants that, if Cyric, who
> isn't afraid of all the gods put together, is so obsessed with capturing a
> dead mortal, then this Kelemvor they've never heard of must be the most
> amazing guy in the multiverse. Cyric, in brief, wants to find Kelemvor.
I always thought Alias from "curse of the azure bonds" was the most amazing
person in the multiverse. She had a dinotaur sidekick, red hair, and all 17's
for her ability scores.
> So, in the last chapter, Cyric does, by total accident, find Kelemvor.
> (Mask was hiding him, for no apparent reason other than that hiding things
> is in his portfolio. Supposedly, he was going to be a bargaining chip, but
That's what Mask tells people. The truth is that Mask will hide things just
to be a jerk.
> Mask doesn't cash him in even when Cyric would do anything to find Kelemvor
> and it looks as if Cyric's about to become God with a capital G.) At the
> very moment this happens, Cyric is, A: under a curse which makes him think
> that he, Cyric, is invincible, B: in the underworld, C: aware that he
> himself, as part of his plan, made it impossible for any Power to enter the
> underworld, D: aware that Kelemvor is a dead human, whereas Cyric is the
> greater god who rules the underworld, and E: just finished being reminded
> by Jergal, the former ruler of the underworld and current flunky, that
> Cyric does indeed rule the underworld and should never ever forget that
> fact or Bad Things will happen. Kelemvor shows up, and swings at Cyric with
> his bare fists.
>
> Cyric panics, forgets about the underworld, runs away and locks
> himself out.
In "trial of cyric the mad", we learn that somehow godhood has warped cyric's
mind. He has distorted paranoiac views of just about everything, including
Kelemvor and Mystra. It's not quite as good as the avatar trilogy, but better
than PoL. It tells the story of how Kelemvor tries to make the land of the
dead a nicer place for the fallen and the false. Then the rest of the pantheon
steps in to say, "If you make it too nice, none of us will have worshippers."
Last I checked, the land of the dead now seems to be a place where the
unfaithful wander for eternity. Still, there's none of that fire and brimstone
stuff anymore.
--
Fumblor
ElfBard
> In "trial of cyric the mad", we learn that somehow godhood has warped
cyric's
> mind. He has distorted paranoiac views of just about everything, including
> Kelemvor and Mystra.
IIRC, he created a magical artifact as a book and anyone who reads it starts
worshiping him as the greatests of gods. Somehow he winds up reading it
himself, thus the madness.
>It's not quite as good as the avatar trilogy, but better
> than PoL.
Personally I loathed it. The eyes we saw it through should be plucked out
and burned.
Ubiquitous
Fum...@hotmail.com wrote:
>The time of the troubles occurred, Lord Ao got really angry and cast down
>all the gods into avatar forms for a time. Mystra, mistress of magic passed
>her portfolio to the wizard Midnight. The mortal Cyric bested the three gods
>Bhaal, Bane, and Myrkul and stole their powers. Kelemvor got run through
>with a sword (the avatar of Mask?) and his spirit was stuck there inside it
>for a while.
I don't think it was Kelemvor who got run through with the avatar of Mask.
>Some more time passed, Cyric usurped the position of god of lies and Kelemvor
>was freed from the sword of mask. Kelemvor then led an uprising of the dead
>against Cyric and won the position of lord of the dead.
Actually, I believe Jergal handed it to him becaus ehe found him more
worthy.
--
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ISLAM: Winning the hearts and minds of the world, one bomb at a time.
Loren Davis
> "Loren Davis" wrote:
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> I wouldn't trust all the facts from a book called Prince_of_Lies, however,
> "trial of cyric the mad" seems to confirm a few of them.
Don't judge the book by its title. There are many, many good
reasons not to believe a word of _Prince_of_Lies_. I don't own
_Trial_of_Cyric_the_Mad_, so I can't comment.
> What should Oghma do? Throw a library at cyric? Naah, he'll probably wait
> for the next revolt in hell to get his petitioner back.
Right off the top of my head: bring his petitioner back himself,
send another servant to help her, say no to Cyric, ask for something
in return (which he did, earlier in the same novel) or trick Cyric
(which he did, later in the same novel).
> I always thought Alias from "curse of the azure bonds" was the most amazing
> person in the multiverse. She had a dinotaur sidekick, red hair, and all 17's
> for her ability scores.
When she finally met the Symbul, the two Mary Sues resonated like
rings of spell turning. That's what happened to Tilverton.
> In "trial of cyric the mad", we learn that somehow godhood has warped cyric's
> mind. He has distorted paranoiac views of just about everything, including
> Kelemvor and Mystra.
That was plenty obvious in _Prince_of_Lies_, which turned the
climax into a shaggy dog story. Nothing that anyone did had any role
in stopping Cyric. Mystra would have been better off just getting out
of his way at the beginning so he could fall on his own sword sooner,
and in fact that's exactly what all the other gods told her she ought
to do, not that she or the author ever considers the possibility that
they might say anything worth listening to. The only difference
between this plot and the script of the D&D movie was that, in the
novel, the heroes don't pat each other on the back about the huge
difference they made.
> It's not quite as good as the avatar trilogy, but better
> than PoL. It tells the story of how Kelemvor tries to make the land of the
> dead a nicer place for the fallen and the false. Then the rest of the pantheon
> steps in to say, "If you make it too nice, none of us will have worshippers."
There are plenty of ways for them to attract followers even
without the threat of eternal damnation. Still, that would be an
improvement over _Prince_of_Lies_, in which none of the gods, other
than Mystra, gave a damn when Cyric was about to take all their
worshippers.
> Last I checked, the land of the dead now seems to be a place where the
> unfaithful wander for eternity. Still, there's none of that fire and brimstone
> stuff anymore.
According to the 3E FRCS, Kelemvor has discovered the joys of
tough love. Most of his servants are Baatezu, and the False and
Faithless still get punished, except that Kelemvor does it justly and
consistently, whereas his last two predecessors were sadistic and
arbitrary. (One of the few parts of _Prince_of_Lies_ that I liked, to
give the author some credit, was the reaction of Cyric's own evil
minions when they found out that even they weren't safe from his
whims.) Even Lawful Evil Outsiders, it seems, would rather work for a
True Lawful boss.