RPG Pondering: Do Monks fit in D&D?

[Tetsubo]

A blog post I ran into recently got me thinking about the Monk and
whether the classes fits in D&D or not. I am in the pro-Monk camp. I
think it adds an element that no other class does. What are your thoughts?

The original article that inspired my query:

http://www.paperspencils.com/2013/02/25/pathfinder-class-analysis-6-monk/

My video on the topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1SG_CjF_qo
--
Tetsubo
Deviant Art: http://ironstaff.deviantart.com/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/tetsubo57

[Nicole Massey]

"Tetsubo" <tet...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:khh79r$sf1$1...@dont-email.me...

> A blog post I ran into recently got me thinking about the Monk and whether
> the classes fits in D&D or not. I am in the pro-Monk camp. I think it adds
> an element that no other class does. What are your thoughts?

I think the monk fits in the game, just like how the samurai, Kensei, and Wu
Jen fit -- in ORiental Adventures.
Gary didn't want a monk in the game and only let it in to let his TV
watching fans have something to do besides pestering him about a monk class.
It's a weird fit in the gameand only really takes on a good place in OA, in
my opinion.

[Ubiquitous]

In article <khh79r$sf1$1...@dont-email.me>, tet...@comcast.net wrote:

> A blog post I ran into recently got me thinking about the Monk and
> whether the classes fits in D&D or not. I am in the pro-Monk camp. I
> think it adds an element that no other class does. What are your
> thoughts?

I have mixed feelings about the class because it really doesn't fit into
an occidental campaign very well, so I wasn't too upset about it not
being a core class in 2nd edition (I kinda like how Greyhawk handled it
-- they were accidemntally transported in from an Oriental area to the
Scarlet Brotherhood and were assimulated).


--
"Re-electing Obama is like backing The Titanic up and hitting the
iceberg a second time."

[dr...@bin.sh]

"we will make it legal."

unless your campaign hews extremely closely to western medieval culture
and civilization, which also did not feature dungeon crawls, vancian
magic, clerics devoted to a single god of the pantheon, a pantheon of
gods, division of demons and devils according to alignment, division of
dragons according to chroma and breath weapon type, at least half the
monster manual for that matter, psionics, spelljammer, vorpal swords...

WTF IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH THE MONK

--
n_n n_n dr...@bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
|"|n_n_n|"| ---------------------------------------------------------------
| | " " | | "Killing Tiamat gives Ryan Dancey no experience -- he's too
|_|_[T]_|_| high level to get XP from creatures of Tiamat's level."
-- der_kluge

[Shawn Wilson]

On Mar 9, 10:58 pm, Tetsubo <tets...@comcast.net> wrote:

>         A blog post I ran into recently got me thinking about the Monk and
> whether the classes fits in D&D or not. I am in the pro-Monk camp. I
> think it adds an element that no other class does. What are your thoughts?
>
>         The original article that inspired my query:
>

>        http://www.paperspencils.com/2013/02/25/pathfinder-class-analysis-6-m...

>
>         My video on the topic:
>
>        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1SG_CjF_qo

If it is cool and fun it belongs. Monks are cool and fun, therefore
they belong. QED

[tussock]

Tetsubo wrote:

> A blog post I ran into recently got me thinking about the Monk and
> whether the classes fits in D&D or not. I am in the pro-Monk camp. I
> think it adds an element that no other class does. What are your thoughts?

Flavour-wise, I like it. Aescetic hermits trying to find self-perfection
away from the normal means of the aristocracy, church, or forbidden lore, is
a fine thing. Adventuring for personal enlightenment through mortal danger.

Mechanics-wise, not so much. Competing without armour, weapons, or
spells? That's tough in a game based around those things being awesome. The
little book of calm just gets you hospitalised.

> The original article that inspired my query:
>
> http://www.paperspencils.com/2013/02/25/pathfinder-class-analysis-6-monk/

So I'm the opposite of that guy. I don't care much for elegant and
interesting mechanics that fail to get the job done. I guess running around
while being hard to kill is a thing, mechanically, and it works: I just
don't care for it.
Or, I do, they just need an /active/ ability as well. Too passive of a
thing to be the best at. Like a 4e defender, no one cares.

> My video on the topic:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1SG_CjF_qo

That automatic transcription service they're running is hilarious, but
it gets me the idea without waiting an hour on the download. 8]

--
tussock

[Jim Davies]

On the grave of Tetsubo <tet...@comcast.net> is inscribed:

> A blog post I ran into recently got me thinking about the Monk and
>whether the classes fits in D&D or not. I am in the pro-Monk camp. I
>think it adds an element that no other class does. What are your thoughts?

It's only an anomaly because it's the only obviously foreign
archetype. Once you add in a range of other classes (or monsters,
spells, items) that don't derive from western culture, it seems less
odd.

In 1e it was additionally anomalous because it wasn't a cleric or a
fighter or an MU or s thief subclass but some half-baked hybrid that
clearly hadn't seen a playtest; the [bald] redheaded stepchild of D&D.

--
Jim

http://www.aaargh.org

[Joanna Rowland Stuart]

In article <m19u0ax...@scrub2.WOOLEY>, sc...@clear.net.nz (tussock)
wrote:

> Mechanics-wise, not so much. Competing without armour, weapons, or
> spells? That's tough in a game based around those things being
> awesome. The little book of calm just gets you hospitalised.

Actually that's where you can let monks develop psionics as a class skill.
It's all part of the process of finding one's inner power through
meditation. This then explains the other supernatural powers monks get.

And, they *can* so use weapons, and can use armour, they just don't get
fancy powers like ki strike or their ability to dodge all kinds of nasty
stuff unless the weapon or armour is (possibly magically) designed for
them.

Finally, a monk should be able to get divination, communication, and even
necromancy and healing skills (again possibly psionic) that no cleric
could equal, simply because their inner peace enables them to shut out
distractions, plug into the universe, and /grok/ it.

Cheers
JOanna

[Justisaur]

On Mar 9, 10:58 pm, Tetsubo <tets...@comcast.net> wrote:

>         A blog post I ran into recently got me thinking about the Monk and
> whether the classes fits in D&D or not. I am in the pro-Monk camp. I
> think it adds an element that no other class does. What are your thoughts?
>

I'm in the pro monk camp too. I can see it could be a bit of a
stretch for a realistic medieval fantasy game, but this is D&D! I
don't think it's any more outlandish than mind flayers to be sure.

I do like class proliferation in general up to a point - as long as
they are done well, many are not. It's arguable that monk could use
some fixing in any edition of D&D.

- Justisaur

[Magewolf]

I think the Monk concept fits fine in D&D but for the most part none of
the Monk classes have done a very good job of filling it.

They really need to figure out what they want the class to do and let it
be good at it.Because mostly the only thing Monks have been good at is
running away.

[LL]

On 10.03.2013 06:58, Tetsubo wrote:
> A blog post I ran into recently got me thinking about the Monk and
> whether the classes fits in D&D or not. I am in the pro-Monk camp. I
> think it adds an element that no other class does. What are your thoughts?
>
> The original article that inspired my query:
>
> http://www.paperspencils.com/2013/02/25/pathfinder-class-analysis-6-monk/
>
> My video on the topic:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1SG_CjF_qo

I'm Pro-Monk too.

A fantasy campaign can have a basically "western" culture plus monks.
I don't like their proficiency with the eastern weapons like
nunchaku, sai etc. though. Maybe these should be renamed or replaced
in a "western" campaign. Same for Ki points => Mana points ?
OTOH the mysterious-stranger-monk isn't the worst trope either.
Bullet-proof monk anybody? :-)

LL

[Tetsubo]

I would prefer 'generic' Monk weapons. One Bludgeoning, one Piercing
and one Slashing. Make them all throwable and grant special abilities to
different ones. Have the descriptive fluff be different for each culture
or monastery.

[LL]

I'd add in "sizes" to have more than three weapons. Maybe weapon w.
reach, two-handed w/o reach, one-handed, light weapon too.

Ranseur, Q-Staff, Longsword, Handaxe, Flail, Dagger, ...?

LL

[Tetsubo]

Would they all be useable with the Flurry of Blows like the Monk's
traditional weapons?

[LL]

Well, would it be unbalancing? What could possibly happen?
A monk with a (very good magic) weapon would get one, two or three
extra attacks with good BAB as if he had two such weapons.

Other characters would need two such weapons and TWF (and later
ITWF and GTWF) to get there. In RAW this problem(?) already exists with
the monk weapons.

LL

[Justisaur]

On Mar 12, 8:07 am, LL <Lorenz.L...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 12.03.2013 14:59, Tetsubo wrote:
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 3/12/2013 9:57 AM, LL wrote:
> >> On 12.03.2013 12:42, Tetsubo wrote:
> >>> On 3/12/2013 6:29 AM, LL wrote:
> >>>> On 10.03.2013 06:58, Tetsubo wrote:
> >>>>>      A blog post I ran into recently got me thinking about the Monk
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> whether the classes fits in D&D or not. I am in the pro-Monk camp. I
> >>>>> think it adds an element that no other class does. What are your
> >>>>> thoughts?
>
> >>>>>      The original article that inspired my query:
>

> >>>>>http://www.paperspencils.com/2013/02/25/pathfinder-class-analysis-6-m...

I think ultimately flurry shouldn't work with monk weapons, and their
hands should be like enchanted weapons... You could have the Evil bane
monk, or flaming fists of fury etc.

You should be able to do drunken master too :D

[Tetsubo]

Well, *I* don't think it's unbalancing. But I have never been one to
bow too deeply at the altar of balance. It might rankle some folks if
the Monk does something well. They might see it as cutting into the
Fighters schtick.

[Jim Davies]

On the grave of Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> is inscribed:

>You should be able to do drunken master too :D

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/coreClasses/monk.html#_drunken-master

--
Jim

http://www.aaargh.org