Permanent Spells beyond PH
Harold Groot
SPECIES. Though it came out prior to 3.5, I've sometimes seen it
referred to as 3.25 or as being "compatible with 3.5" - but not in
anything official that I have.
In SS they included a list of spells that could be made PERMANENT
(besides the ones in the 3.0 PH). In the official 3.5 books, however,
I don't recall seeing anything like that. The 3.5 PH still just
refers to other spells in the PH. While the spells mentioned in SS
pretty much all exist in 3.5 in the Spell Compendium, I can't find
anything in official 3.5 books that specifically mentions placing a
PERMANENCY on top of any specific non-PH spells.
Does anyone know of such a 3.5 list (or of a ruling that says if the
SS list is "official" for 3.5 or not)?
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
(7th Level) to make ANY spell of 6th level or lower permanent, as long as the spell
had a duration (i.e. was not instantaneous or already permanent). The XP costs were
half those for spells that could be made permanent by the 5th level spell, but
double the normally calculated cost for any other spell.
Cheers
JOanna
Hadsil
wrote:
Permanent Bull's Strength
Permanent Bear's Endurance
Permanent Cat's Grace
Permanent Fox's Cunning
Permanent Owl's Wisdom
Permanent Eagle's Splendor
Permanent Mirror Image
Permanent Displacement
Permanent Stoneskin
Permanent Divine Favor
Permanent Divine Power
Permanent Righteous Might
Permanent Shield
Permanent Protection From Evil
Ok, if you say so.
Gerald Katz
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Why are you going for the wussy ones?
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
WDS
Yeah. Permanent Greater Invisibility comes to mind.
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
Cheers
JOanna
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
> Permanent Bear's Endurance
> Permanent Cat's Grace
> Permanent Fox's Cunning
> Permanent Owl's Wisdom
> Permanent Eagle's Splendor
> Permanent Mirror Image
> Permanent Displacement
> Permanent Stoneskin
> Permanent Divine Favor
> Permanent Divine Power
> Permanent Righteous Might
> Permanent Shield
> Permanent Protection From Evil
>
> Ok, if you say so.
Don't forget, an area-based Dispel Magic is going to strip a fair few of those away.
The XP cost was also fairly prohibitive for other than a few of these, and, if one
is of such a level that the XP cost is bupkis, one probably HAS similar protections
already through items or other magics such as Wish.
An Antimagic Field renders all of those Greater Permanent buffs inert, while
ability score (and other) buffs done by a Wish are not so affected (as they become
innate at the point the Wish is made).
Cheers
JOanna
Reginald Blue
> On Feb 18, 10:32 am, jrowlandstu...@cix.co.uk (JOanna Rowland-Stuart)
> wrote:
>> I house ruled to allow a character to create a new spell -
>> Permanency, Greater (7th Level) to make ANY spell of 6th level or
>> lower permanent, as long as the spell had a duration (i.e. was not
>> instantaneous or already permanent). The XP costs were half those
>> for spells that could be made permanent by the 5th level spell, but
>> double the normally calculated cost for any other spell.
>
> Permanent Bear's Endurance
> Permanent Cat's Grace
> Permanent Fox's Cunning
> Permanent Owl's Wisdom
> Permanent Eagle's Splendor
Are those really a big deal? Correct me if I'm wrong, but, they won't stack
with, say, misc items of said same, nor spells, nor potions.
If you're hit by dispel magic, poof, it's gone, start over (unlike a magic
item), right?
I think the big difference here would be between 3.0 and 3.5... since there
was a massive change in the durations between the two, but, since magic
items of those types exist... I don't know... I'm not seeing this as "all
that and a bag of chips".
--
Reginald Blue
"I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my
telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my
telephone."
- Bjarne Stroustrup (originator of C++) [quoted at the 2003
International Conference on Intelligent User Interfaces]
Loren Pechtel
Permanent spells on a combatant don't make too much sense. What
happens with dispel magic??
Hadsil
wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Permanent Contingency Greater Dispel Magic to counterspell
Permanent Spell Immunity for Dispel Magic
Craft Contingent Spell feat
People already have conniption fits over Persistent Spell and Divine
Metamagic Persistent Spell.
Gerald Katz
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
to "permanent until discharged"
> Permanent Spell Immunity for Dispel Magic
From the description for Spell Immunity:
"The warded creature effectively has unbeatable spell resistance regarding the
specified spell or spells. Naturally, that immunity doesn�t protect a creature from
spells for which spell resistance doesn�t apply."
Spell resistance is not allowed against Dispel Magic, so Spell Immunity cannot
apply to Dispel Magic
> Craft Contingent Spell feat
The same applies as to Contingency, i.e. the duration becomes "permanent until
discharged"
Cheers
JOanna
Reginald Blue
>> Permanent Contingency Greater Dispel Magic to counterspell
> All that would do would extend the duration of "1/day per level or
> until discharged" to "permanent until discharged"
I believe this would apply to some of the other spells in the original list,
right? Like Stoneskin which has an ablative nature to it (or it did in 3.0
at least, I thought that carried to 3.5).
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
> original list, right? Like Stoneskin which has an ablative nature
> to it (or it did in 3.0 at least, I thought that carried to 3.5).
If there is a duration to a spell that duration extends to "indefinite". If the
duration is "until discharged" then that remains unchanged.
So Permanent Stoneskin lasts indefinitely (instead of 10 mins per caster level) OR
until it has absorbed 10 points of damage per caster level.
Cheers
JOanna
Reginald Blue
Okay. That doesn't seem all that "interesting" a problem... you could
almost achieve the same effect by using a contingency and stoneskin combo.
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
> almost achieve the same effect by using a contingency and stoneskin
> combo.
JOanna Rowland-Stuart
GOK what happened there
I posted a long missive. Which my puter somehow mangled
In short, I said that a contingency could not be guaranteed to trigger correctly
unless very carefully worded, and that Permanent Stoneskin would always be active,
ready to take impact damage as needed.
Also, it allows one to use Contingency for something else (as one can only ever be
in effect at any one time)
I added a PS - in that RAW, Stoneskin is only effective against weapons, whereas I
allow it to be effective against any form of impact damage. After all it should not
matter a whit whether one has been hit by a rock thrown by an enemy or a rock
accidentally falling of a cliff, or even from oneself falling off said cliff onto a
rock (although in the latter case DR 10/adamantine is unlikely to be much use
unless it's a very small cliff).
Cheers
JOanna
azothath
Well, 3.5 was an update to 3.0.
Like most, I'd go along with if it is printed in an official book,
then it's official (if you have the book on hand).
It would take a reprinting (as with the core books or complete (class)
books in 3.5) or a FAQ to knock it out of the 3.5 update.
There was a transition document WotC put out... you'd have to refer to
that.
There was considerable chat about how to convert to 3.5, and a rule
listing like that that which is still in line with the 500XP per spell
level would be a shoo in.
azothath
still trying to Fabricate a dwarf's beard outta a mule's backside...
azothath
> On Feb 17, 8:54 pm, ques...@infionline.net (Harold Groot) wrote:
> > In Savage Species they included a list of spells that could be made PERMANENT
> > (besides the ones in the 3.0 PH). In the official 3.5 books, however,
> > I don't recall seeing anything like that.
Savage Species IS an official book... Pub date is 02/2003.
on pg 60 they list the spells.
For clarity, I will paraphrase the list.
The list describes the Spell Name, then the Sorcerer or Wizard level,
the Minimal Level to cast the Permanency, and then the Experience
point cost.
Personal;
Extend Tentacles: 4, 15, 2000.
Fins to Feet: 2, 11, 1000.
Personal, Crtr, Obj (as appropriate);
Air Breathing: 3, 13, 1500.
Blindsight: 2, 11, 1500.
Cloud Wings: 2, 11, 1000.
Fuse Arms: 3, 13, 1500.
Girallon's Blessing: 3, 13, 1500.
Imp. Blindsight: 4, 15, 2000.
Imp. Enlarge: 5, 17, 2500.
Imp. Reduce: 5, 17, 2500.
Low Light Vision: 1, 9, 500.
Mjr. Resistance: 2, 11, 1000.
Rapid Burrowing: 2, 11, 1000.
Scent: 2, 11, 1000.
Supr. Resistance: 5, 17, 2500.
Wpn of Energy: 4, 15, 2000.
Wings of the Sea: 2, 11, 1000.
Objects or areas;
Bridge of Sound: 3, 13, 1500.
Illusory Pit: 4, 15, 2000.
Wall of Limbs: 5, 17, 2500.
a note of advice is given that a DM may rule that you must research
these applications of Permanency, see Ch 2, which is still the same
chapter in DMG3.5 however Spell Research rules are pg198 DMG3.5.
> > <snip>
> > Does anyone know of such a 3.5 list (or of a ruling that says if the
> > SS list is "official" for 3.5 or not)?
On pg4 DMG3.5 it states that this is a Revision, not a new Edition of
the game (as 4.0 is).
Therefore, as it has not been eratta'd or FAQ'd or reprinted, it's
legal.
You will still need to gain DM approval as per the note.
Harold Groot
<azot...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>On pg4 DMG3.5 it states that this is a Revision, not a new Edition of
>the game (as 4.0 is).
>Therefore, as it has not been eratta'd or FAQ'd or reprinted, it's
>legal.
>You will still need to gain DM approval as per the note.
>> azothath
Alas, it won't be happening in this campaign. I gave the DM several
places where the 3.5 books said that 3.0 material was not invalidated
unless it was specifically replaced (and nothing had replaced SS).
But for the DM, I think the critical point was that the spells
themselves (in Spell Compendium) do NOT carry any notes that they can
be made permanent. He thinks that if it was intended that they could
be made permanent in 3.5 the spell descriptions would have been
revised by that point. He also noted the lack of any extra permanency
lists even in supplements like PH2, DMG2 and so on. He thinks
"Shirley they would have put it in one of those supplements if they
wanted it to be in 3.5", so combined the lack of a note in the spell
descriptions themselves he has decided that the entire SS list is out.
Oh, he =might= use it for a guideline if my PC can find time for some
individual spell research, but it isn't something that is readily
available at a Spellswap at a Magic Fair, or at the local Wizards
Guild or anything like that.
So unless there is something to specifically point to that says "This
is officially part of 3.5", it's out for his campaign. A pity, but
it's his call....
uncle...@gmail.com
Cheers
Mike
Joanna Rowland Stuart
> Actually if you cast permanency on top of contingency(at will) you
> can bypass the antimagic field as it would only essentially subdue
> the magic effects for a certain number of rounds as you can refer
> to the epic level handbook to see feat: permanent emanation, or the
> permanency effects of epic spells themselves.
The post to which you're commenting is alsmost three and a half years old
LOL
I'd forgotten all about it.
Permanency on top of Contingency just makes the contingency spell last
until discharged, as the Contingency spell has a duration of "one
day/level or until discharged".
A Permanent Contingency that lasts forever and triggers a spell is a
godlike power, not just Epic.
Cheers
JOanna
Joanna Rowland Stuart
> A Permanent Contingency that lasts forever and triggers a spell is a
> godlike power, not just Epic.
A Permanent Contingency that lasts forever and repeatedly triggers a
spell when activated is a godlike power, not just Epic.
Cheers
JOanna