Light crossbow and loading vs. multiple attacks
Nils-Øyvind Lien
at level 8 as a Halfling Rogue i get attack bonus +6/+1.
Would I be able to shoot two bolts from a light crossbow; first
attack with an AC bonus of +6 and the second attack with +1, or am I
limited to only one attack anyway because of the time it takes to
reload a light crossbow?
Let's say I get two attacks with a light crossbow in one round. Would
the following be possible in one round?:
- Tumble up to 20 feet
- Load the light crossbow
- Shoot it
--
Nils-Ųyvind Lien
X Remove .invalid in mail replies X
Geoff Watson
"Nils-Ųyvind Lien" <ni...@lien.name.invalid> wrote in message
news:pffia.80$8g5...@news2.e.nsc.no...
> Hi,
> at level 8 as a Halfling Rogue i get attack bonus +6/+1.
>
> Would I be able to shoot two bolts from a light crossbow; first
> attack with an AC bonus of +6 and the second attack with +1, or am I
> limited to only one attack anyway because of the time it takes to
> reload a light crossbow?
Only one.
>
> Let's say I get two attacks with a light crossbow in one round. Would
> the following be possible in one round?:
> - Tumble up to 20 feet
Move
> - Load the light crossbow
Move equivalent
> - Shoot it
Standard
No, unless you are hasted.
Geoff.
Nils-Øyvind Lien
>
> "Nils-Ųyvind Lien" <ni...@lien.name.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pffia.80$8g5...@news2.e.nsc.no...
>> Hi,
>> at level 8 as a Halfling Rogue i get attack bonus +6/+1.
>>
>> Would I be able to shoot two bolts from a light crossbow; first
>> attack with an AC bonus of +6 and the second attack with +1, or am
>> I limited to only one attack anyway because of the time it takes to
>> reload a light crossbow?
>
> Only one.
Ok. But what if I have the Rapid Shot feat? Or is that only meant for
bows and not crossbows, which must be reloaded?
Hong Ooi
Basically, there's no reason to take Rapid Shot if you plan to be using a
crossbow most of the time.
--
Hong Ooi | "If you don't appreciate it,
ho...@zipworld.com.au | ignore me"
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | -- WS
Sydney, Australia |
Nils-Øyvind Lien
>>Ok. But what if I have the Rapid Shot feat? Or is that only meant
>>for bows and not crossbows, which must be reloaded?
>
> Basically, there's no reason to take Rapid Shot if you plan to be
> using a crossbow most of the time.
I'm considering changing the crossbow for a regular bow, now that I
have multiple attacks. After all, with a regular bow I get two
attacks (hence 2d6 dmg on successfull hits) and only one attack with
the light crossbow (1d8).
Or maybe buy a repeating crossbow, with a clip of five bolts. If the
DM will allow it. The DM has disallowed it on at least one occasion
before :-(. With this crossbow clip I surely must be able to attack
twice in a round?
--
Nils-Řyvind Lien
Michael Scott Brown
news:pffia.80$8g5...@news2.e.nsc.no...
> at level 8 as a Halfling Rogue i get attack bonus +6/+1.
> Would I be able to shoot two bolts from a light crossbow;
No. Making multiple attacks, whether from Rapid Shot or from high BAB or
multiple weapons, requires the full-attack action. But reloading a crossbow
requires a move-equivalent action all its own - which means *you can never
full attack with a crossbow* under normal circumstances (it might be a
repeater, you might have one in each hand, it might be enchanted to reload
as a free action, etc.). There are optional feats in the splatbooks that
hasten one reload on your behalf ('rapid reload', I believe it's called - it
makes one reload on your part a step faster).
> Let's say I get two attacks with a light crossbow in one round. Would
> the following be possible in one round?:
> - Tumble up to 20 feet
> - Load the light crossbow
> - Shoot it
What you just wrote doesn't reflect getting two attacks with a crossbow.
You just did two move equivalent actions *and* an attack action, which
amounts to taking a standard action (move and shoot) with some change (the
reload), which would only be possible to a Hasted character.
Your question betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the game system,
I think. Characters whose BAB gives them multiple attacks *never* get to
trade "each" of those attacks in for a move equivalent action. They
*either* move and attack once, or stand their ground and take all their
attacks. Those attacks aren't "separate actions"; they're the game's way of
reflecting increased combat capability.
Consequently, with a crossbow, you either move and shoot, move and
reload, or reload and shoot.
-Michael
Master Cougar
<ni...@lien.name.invalid> posted news:pffia.80$8g5...@news2.e.nsc.no:
> Would I be able to shoot two bolts from a light crossbow; first
> attack with an AC bonus of +6 and the second attack with +1, or am I
> limited to only one attack anyway because of the time it takes to
> reload a light crossbow?
>
>
The latter, you are limited.
--
Marc da Puma
Geoff Watson
"Nils-Ųyvind Lien" <ni...@lien.name.invalid> wrote in message
probably a better choice.
Geoff.
Tim Fitzmaurice
> Or maybe buy a repeating crossbow, with a clip of five bolts. If the
> DM will allow it. The DM has disallowed it on at least one occasion
> before :-(. With this crossbow clip I surely must be able to attack
> twice in a round?
Sure, but expect a full round action being required for reloading at
least...
Tim
When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart
ICQ: 5178568
Jerry Davis
>Hi,
>at level 8 as a Halfling Rogue i get attack bonus +6/+1.
>
>Would I be able to shoot two bolts from a light crossbow; first
>attack with an AC bonus of +6 and the second attack with +1, or am I
>limited to only one attack anyway because of the time it takes to
>reload a light crossbow?
>
Only one attack, reloading is a move-equivalent action. So, you can fire
and move 30 feet ... which means you'll need to reload as your first
action on the next round. Or, you can fire, move 5 feet, and reload.
Unless, you acquire the Rapid Reload feat (Sword and Fist, page 9). This
would allow you to reload a light or hand crossbow as a free action. So,
you could fire, reload, and fire again ... and reload again ... and take
a 5 foot step in there somewhere. Or, you could fire, move 30 feet,
reload and be ready to fire right away next round.
>
>Let's say I get two attacks with a light crossbow in one round. Would
>the following be possible in one round?:
>- Tumble up to 20 feet
>- Load the light crossbow
>- Shoot it
>
The two attacks use up a full round action; you get two attacks and a 5
foot step only.
You'd need Rapid Reload to do this, tumble is your move, load as free
action, fire as attack action ... and another reload.
Master Cougar
news:3E89AC14...@flash.net:
> Unless, you acquire the Rapid Reload feat (Sword and Fist, page 9). This
> would allow you to reload a light or hand crossbow as a free action. So,
> you could fire, reload, and fire again ... and reload again ... and take
>
That's if the DM allows you to reload twice in a round. I wouldn't,
but that's me.
--
Marc da Puma
Master Cougar
<mister...@earthlink.net> posted news:WHgia.3330$4P1.262066
@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net:
> Consequently, with a crossbow, you either move and shoot, move and
> reload, or reload and shoot.
>
Well answered.
--
Marc da Puma
Olivier Fanton
That's also in the description of the feat : "You can use this feat once
per round" !
--
Olivier Fanton
"Quand un lapin bouquine, il n'a pas besoin de lunettes."
http://roles.datamancers.net/
Master Cougar
<SPAM.o...@wanadoo.fr> posted
news:b6ce8d$jc0$1...@news-reader11.wanadoo.fr:
> That's also in the description of the feat : "You can use this feat
> once
> per round" !
>
>
Oh, well, there we go. I know that allowing multiple "Free actions"
per round is normally at the discretion of the DM. I guess in this case
they atticipated someone taking advantage of the feat.
--
Marc da Puma
Kershek
says...
> Hi,
> at level 8 as a Halfling Rogue i get attack bonus +6/+1.
>
> Would I be able to shoot two bolts from a light crossbow; first
> attack with an AC bonus of +6 and the second attack with +1, or am I
> limited to only one attack anyway because of the time it takes to
> reload a light crossbow?
You need the feat Rapid Reload from Sword & Fist to reload a crossbow as a
free action and do the above.
> Let's say I get two attacks with a light crossbow in one round. Would
> the following be possible in one round?:
> - Tumble up to 20 feet
> - Load the light crossbow
> - Shoot it
Again, you need the feat Rapid Reload.
Nils-Ųyvind Lien
>
> You'd need Rapid Reload to do this, tumble is your move, load as
> free action, fire as attack action ... and another reload.
Thank you, and all the others, for enlightening me. Pretty new to D&D.
Used to playing MERP, not that that has anything to do with this :-).
--
Nils-Ųyvind Lien
freakybaby
> Hong Ooi managed to write down this:
>
>>>Ok. But what if I have the Rapid Shot feat? Or is that only meant
>>>for bows and not crossbows, which must be reloaded?
>>
>> Basically, there's no reason to take Rapid Shot if you plan to be
>> using a crossbow most of the time.
>
> I'm considering changing the crossbow for a regular bow, now that I
> have multiple attacks. After all, with a regular bow I get two
> attacks (hence 2d6 dmg on successfull hits) and only one attack with
> the light crossbow (1d8).
You could take the rapid reload feat from Sword and the Fist. It reduces
the reload time by one step. So a light crossbow would be a free action
with use of feat instead of move equivalent action. Though the limitation
of Rapid reload, is it can only be used once a round. So at most it is good
for two shots in a given round.
> Or maybe buy a repeating crossbow, with a clip of five bolts. If the
> DM will allow it. The DM has disallowed it on at least one occasion
> before :-(. With this crossbow clip I surely must be able to attack
> twice in a round?
From the PHB:
Crossbow, Repeating: The repeating crossbow holds five crossbow bolts.
While it holds bolts, you can shoot the crossbow according to your normal
number of attacks without reloading. Loading a new case of five bolts is a
full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
The answer is yes you can make two attack in a single round while using a
repeating crossbow.
Round 1: Fire two shots
Round 2: Fire two shots
Round 3: Fire one shot
Round 4: Full round action to reload clip.
Round 5: Fire two shots
Taking the rapid reload feat would allow you to reload the repeating
crossbow as a move equivalent action making it look like this:
Round 1: Fire two shots
Round 2: Fire two shots
Round 3: Fire one shot, use your move equiv to reload
Round 4: Fire two shots
Round 5: Fire two shots
Round 6: Fire one shot, use your move equiv to reload
...repeat
And if you have access to 3E Arms and Equipment Guide, take a look at the
Self-loading crossbow on page 116 and check out the side bar on that page
as well. Nice for the heavy and great crossbow, though a bit expensive,
considering the repeating crossbow requires Exotic Weapon Pro feat and then
to add the rapid reload feat and then making it a self loading repeating
crossbow vs. just taking rapid reload with the light crossbow.
freakybaby
> Nils-Řyvind Lien wrote:
>
> Unless, you acquire the Rapid Reload feat (Sword and Fist, page 9). This
> would allow you to reload a light or hand crossbow as a free action. So,
> you could fire, reload, and fire again ... and reload again ... and take
> a 5 foot step in there somewhere. Or, you could fire, move 30 feet,
> reload and be ready to fire right away next round.
Rapid Reload is limited to being used only once a round. At most he could
fire twice and take a 5 foot move.
Kershek
ker...@somewhere.net says...
> You need the feat Rapid Reload from Sword & Fist to reload a crossbow as a
> free action and do the above.
In a rude reply to my own post, there is an alternative to the feat. In
Magic of Faerun, there is a special ability called Quick-Loading, a +2
bonus, that gives a crossbow the same effect as the feat by holding some
bolts in an extradimensional space.
freakybaby
news:Xns93507A3E3...@127.0.0.1:
> Oh, well, there we go. I know that allowing multiple "Free
> actions"
> per round is normally at the discretion of the DM. I guess in this
> case they atticipated someone taking advantage of the feat.
Though making the light crossbow self-loading(see pg 116 Arms and
Equipment Guide). Should allow you to take full advantage of a light cross
bow and multiple attacks in a round
Nils-Ųyvind Lien
>
> The answer is yes you can make two attack in a single round while
> using a repeating crossbow.
>
> Round 1: Fire two shots
> Round 2: Fire two shots
> Round 3: Fire one shot
> Round 4: Full round action to reload clip.
> Round 5: Fire two shots
>
> Taking the rapid reload feat would allow you to reload the repeating
> crossbow as a move equivalent action making it look like this:
>
> Round 1: Fire two shots
> Round 2: Fire two shots
> Round 3: Fire one shot, use your move equiv to reload
> Round 4: Fire two shots
> Round 5: Fire two shots
> Round 6: Fire one shot, use your move equiv to reload
> ...repeat
Nice :-). I will consider this.
--
Nils-Øyvind Lien
Master Cougar
posted news:Xns9350830E4CE93...@66.185.95.104:
> Though making the light crossbow self-loading(see pg 116 Arms and
> Equipment Guide). Should allow you to take full advantage of a light
> cross bow and multiple attacks in a round
>
I might accept that. Haven't read that particular book.
--
Marc da Puma
Mark Blunden
Just bear in mind that you're having to spend two feats for this (exotic
weapon proficiency: repeating crossbow, and rapid reload), whereas with a
shortbow you'll never need to worry about reloading, and can use those feats
for something else.
--
Mark.
* Halt stranger, friend or faaargh!
Courtney Love
attack with an AC bonus of +6 and the second attack with +1, or am I
limited to only one attack anyway because of the time it takes to
You can only attack twice if hasted, and then it would be at +6 each time.
<< Let's say I get two attacks with a light crossbow in one round. Would
the following be possible in one round?:
- Tumble up to 20 feet
- Load the light crossbow
- Shoot it
>><BR><BR>
No, again unless you're hasted.
"Justice is as strictly due between neighbor nations as between neighbor
citizens. A highwayman is as much a robber when he plunders in a gang, as when
single; and a nation that makes an unjust war is only a great gang."
--Benjamin Franklin
Courtney Love
Rapid Shot only applies to weapons which don't need to be reloaded, like bows.
I think the PHB mentions somewhere which items need to be reloaed (crossbows,
slings) and which don't (bows, javelins).
I remember reading somewhere that this does NOT apply to things like thrown
daggers, because you have to draw the daggers before you thrown them (unless
you have the QuickDraw feat). I think that's stupid.
Courtney Love
DM will allow it. The DM has disallowed it on at least one occasion
before :-(. With this crossbow clip I surely must be able to attack
Yes, indeed.
freakybaby
news:b6d2oj$46ebq$1...@ID-36588.news.dfncis.de:
> Just bear in mind that you're having to spend two feats for this
> (exotic weapon proficiency: repeating crossbow, and rapid reload),
> whereas with a shortbow you'll never need to worry about reloading,
> and can use those feats for something else.
True enough on that front.