Dungeonmasters, dungeonmistresses, and biased language
SeaHen
reference librarian has confirmed, that...
THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
This issue must be resolved. In a world that has gender-neutral forms
of waiter, busboy, stockboy, chairman, webmaster, headmaster, and
seemingly every other occupational title, I'm sure it won't be long
before a female player attacks the assumption that D&D games are always
overseen by males. (Granted, this is usually true, but that may be
partly because of the implicit social expectation!)
The v3.5 Player's Manual cites a Dungeonmaster as "she" several times
(and also uses the arguably male class names Monk, Wizard and Sorceror
with female exemplars like Mialee; see the old thread starting with
message 3e61d0a4$0$9535$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au).
Reference librarian Patrick (who may or may not play any D&D, I don't
know how we'd find out) says:
> There is no term noted for "Dungeonmaster", but "Master" has: "owner,
> manager, chief, head, leader, governor, superior, director, supervisor,
> employer, boss, commander, captain, controller, sovereign, ruler,
> etc..." (the list is too extensive to give all). "Dungeonmanager" seems
> a bit silly, "Dungeonsupervisor" seems laughably bureaucratic, but
> "Dungeonsovereign" has neither music nor poetry. Depending on function,
> since dungeonmasters or dungeonmistresses have many, terms like
> "Dungeontrainer", "Dungeonadept", or "Dungeonauthority" might have uses
> ... though none seem to carry an equivalent psycho-social impact. It
> would seem the choice is yours.
> There seems to be no equivalent that conveys the impact of either
> "Dungeonmaster" or "Dungeonmistress". (Personally, I'd opt for
> "Dungeonmaster" or "Dungeonmistress" for specific individuals according
> to gender self-identification, with "Aweful Overseer of the Dungeon" for
> non-specific uses ... but that's a purely personal opinion, and too
> wordy by far!)
I propose two better-sounding possibilities. For Webmasters, the
gender-neutral term is website administrator, which suggests "dungeon
administrator" (abbreviate DA or DungeAd). A less bureaucratic-sounding
possibility would be
"dungeonkeeper" (whose abbreviation would no doubt leave both n00bs and
veterans wondering when Donkey Kong became a D&D character :-) ).
Western society is already breaking the barriers into such
male-dominated occupations as engineering, the construction trades, and
the military. Ladies and gentlemen, let us also break the barriers into
male-dominated hobbies! Eliminating gender bias in our language can't
possibly make it *harder* to bring more women into the fold.
The Silverleafs
This way it isn't biased in any way.
Diplomacy: Is the "ART" of saying nice doggy until you can find a rock.
Madkaugh
SeaHen wrote:
> It has recently come to my attention, and a Toronto Public Library
> reference librarian has confirmed, that...
>
> THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
I'm not big on politically correct. I like 'Dungeon Dominatrix' or
'Supreme Overlord of the Dismal Realms'. Ooh, ooh, how about 'Supreme
World Overlord of the Realms Dismal',
then they could be the acronym 'SWORD'. Or 'RealmMonkey'?
MadKaugh
Ophidian
> It has recently come to my attention, and a Toronto Public Library
> reference librarian has confirmed, that...
>
> THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
Um, yeah there is.
It's called "Dungeon Master".
> A less bureaucratic-sounding
> possibility would be
> "dungeonkeeper"
That's no more gender neutral than "Dungeon Master".
> (whose abbreviation would no doubt leave both n00bs and
> veterans wondering when Donkey Kong became a D&D character :-) ).
Or the Dead Kennedys.
> Western society is already breaking the barriers into such
> male-dominated occupations as engineering, the construction trades, and
> the military. Ladies and gentlemen, let us also break the barriers into
> male-dominated hobbies! Eliminating gender bias in our language can't
> possibly make it *harder* to bring more women into the fold.
Let's start with the languages that are really biased.
You know, the ones with "feminine" and "masculine" common nouns...
Madkaugh
Ophidian wrote:
>
> Or the Dead Kennedys.
The Undead Kennedys. Bwah, hah, hah, hah!
"NEED B(r)AIHNS! MINE WAS SHAUGHT AUGHT!"
Undead Elmer,
"NEED BWAAAINZ"
MadKaugh
alordo...@yahoo.com
SeaHen wrote:
> It has recently come to my attention, and a Toronto Public Library
> reference librarian has confirmed, that...
>
> THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
"DM" is gender neutral.
"GM" is ruleset and gender neutral.
DragonFireCK
How about a simple one, which already is a decently short so it needs no
abbreviation; it describes the powers of the DM quite well; however, it
would cause some confusion with other aspects of the game. In addition,
the term might offend some persons, which would obviously not be
politically correct: GOD! Overall, however, I feel that being completely
politically correct is a bit stupid, and if someone can't handle
traditional ways of stating something that isn't politically correct,
they have too much of a superiority complex. Also, while you at coming
up with new terms to be politically correct, make sure to make one for
He/She (s/he doesn't work according to many professors, and it very
difficult to pronounce, and he or she seems a bit wordy)...
Loren...@gmx.de
But GORE MASTER is not for the kids!
...and what about huMANity? woMAN??
we need real feMALE forms, no wait...
;-P
LL
No 33 Secretary
news:1143134409.7...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> It has recently come to my attention, and a Toronto Public Library
> reference librarian has confirmed, that...
>
> THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
>
Well, in your case, how about "Dungeon Dork"?
--
"So there is no third law of Terrydynamics."
-- William Hyde
Terry Austin
SeaHen
>
> "GM" is ruleset and gender neutral.
But people will ask what the M stands for. When they do, you can say
Master or you can say Mistress, but you can't put both words under one
M.
SeaHen
> How about a simple one, which already is a decently short so it needs no
> abbreviation; it describes the powers of the DM quite well; however, it
> would cause some confusion with other aspects of the game. In addition,
> the term might offend some persons, which would obviously not be
> politically correct: GOD!
Sure, throw more coal on the book-burning fire of Christian
conservatives, who oppose *all* magic --- arcane or divine --- in
popular culture. (Remember "Dark Dungeons?"
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp. A companion
article is at http://www.chick.com/articles/frpg.asp.) Also, if "god"
were completely gender-neutral, would "goddess" be in common use? No!
That's why we have "deity."
> Also, while you at coming
> up with new terms to be politically correct, make sure to make one for
> He/She (s/he doesn't work according to many professors, and it very
> difficult to pronounce, and he or she seems a bit wordy)..
Some languages, such as French, avoid this problem through generous use
of "one" and "one's". In French, one is "on" and he is "il" -- both two
letters.
Justisaur
You could just call them the Game Referee = GR. or gir. of course
they could be the Game Referee/Lawyer then you have GRL or girl.
- Justisaur.
No 33 Secretary
news:1143150600.2...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:
>> "DM" is gender neutral.
>>
>> "GM" is ruleset and gender neutral.
>
> But people will ask what the M stands for.
In your case, "moron."
Or "Ron."
But we all knew that.
DragonFireCK
Any precise reason you decided to make the post four times? The first
part was posted thrice, the second part twice.
Whether or not god is gender-neutral depends a lot upon context,
although I didn't think about goddess for some reason during my previous
posting. I mostly suggested god to incite the exact post you gave, and
to (attempt to) make the point regarding everything will offend someone,
which I'm not quite sure if I managed to get across very well.
DragonFireCK
Figured I'd point this out: both referee and lawyer, while they have no
female counterpart, tend to imply male...
drow
> You could just call them the Game Referee = GR. or gir.
i'm gonna sing the doom song!
--
\^\ // dr...@bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
\ // - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
// \ X-Windows: Form follows malfunction.
// \_\ -- Dude from DPAK
No 33 Secretary
news:XMFUf.15955$gD4.12304@trnddc05:
> SeaHen wrote:
>> DragonFireCK wrote:
>>
>>>How about a simple one, which already is a decently short so it needs no
>>>abbreviation; it describes the powers of the DM quite well; however, it
>>>would cause some confusion with other aspects of the game. In addition,
>>>the term might offend some persons, which would obviously not be
>>>politically correct: GOD!
>>
>>
>> Sure, throw more coal on the book-burning fire of Christian
>> conservatives, who oppose *all* magic --- arcane or divine --- in
>> popular culture. (Remember "Dark Dungeons?"
>> http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp. A companion
>> article is at http://www.chick.com/articles/frpg.asp.) Also, if "god"
>> were completely gender-neutral, would "goddess" be in common use? No!
>> That's why we have "deity."
>>
>>
>>>Also, while you at coming
>>>up with new terms to be politically correct, make sure to make one for
>>>He/She (s/he doesn't work according to many professors, and it very
>>>difficult to pronounce, and he or she seems a bit wordy)..
>>
>>
>> Some languages, such as French, avoid this problem through generous use
>> of "one" and "one's". In French, one is "on" and he is "il" -- both two
>> letters.
>>
>
> Any precise reason you decided to make the post four times? The first
> part was posted thrice, the second part twice.
What part of "It's Ron, trolling, and not even putting much effort in to
it" isn't clear?
Zimri
news:1143134409.7...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> It has recently come to my attention, and a Toronto Public Library
> reference librarian has confirmed, that...
>
> THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
I don't see "cox.net" in the header.
Wait a minute... Sea"Hen"... deliberately AVOIDING
"cox".net..................
--
zimriel sbc dot
at global net
.
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/zimriel/
*new improved shorter .sig*
Rupert Boleyn
>It has recently come to my attention, and a Toronto Public Library
>reference librarian has confirmed, that...
>
>THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
Just use the terms other games use, like 'Storyteller' (though that
has unforunately rail-roading connotations), or 'referee'.
--
Rupert Boleyn <rbo...@paradise.net.nz>
Rupert Boleyn
<zim...@SBCspammlesforglobal.net> wrote:
>"SeaHen" <seah...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1143134409.7...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> It has recently come to my attention, and a Toronto Public Library
>> reference librarian has confirmed, that...
>>
>> THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
>[snip]
>
>I don't see "cox.net" in the header.
>
>Wait a minute... Sea"Hen"... deliberately AVOIDING
>"cox".net..................
It would appear that gmail + googlegroups has given Ron a whole new
range of options.
--
Rupert Boleyn <rbo...@paradise.net.nz>
drow
> THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
how about 'dungeonwang'? that's pretty neutral.
Ophidian
It works with the H in HMS.
Ophidian
> Calling them a God would just throw more coal on the book-burning fire
> of Christian conservatives, who oppose *all* magic --- arcane or divine
> --- in popular culture. (See, for example, Jack T. Chick's "Dark
> Dungeons" at http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp, and
> companion article at http://www.chick.com/articles/frpg.asp.)
Hell, I was shocked to a small portion of the Christian
Fundies protesting the Narnia movie!
Ophidian
> "SeaHen" <seah...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:1143134409.7...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>>It has recently come to my attention, and a Toronto Public Library
>>reference librarian has confirmed, that...
>>
>>THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
>
> Well, in your case, how about "Dungeon Dork"?
That's male.
The female version would be something like "Dungeon Cunt".
The neuter vesrion?
No idea.
Maybe "Dungeon Nada".
Ophidian
> "SeaHen" <seah...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1143134409.7...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>It has recently come to my attention, and a Toronto Public Library
>>reference librarian has confirmed, that...
>>
>>THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
>
> [snip]
>
> I don't see "cox.net" in the header.
>
> Wait a minute... Sea"Hen"... deliberately AVOIDING
> "cox".net..................
Wait a minute.
I'm not Ro...
Oh wait, sorry.
Carry on.
No 33 Secretary
No 33 Secretary
Sea Wasp
> It has recently come to my attention, and a Toronto Public Library
> reference librarian has confirmed, that...
>
> THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
>
Assume it is gender neutral. Problem solved.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
SeaHen
DragonFireCK wrote:
> Any precise reason you decided to make the post four times? The first
> part was posted thrice, the second part twice.
Sorry, I removed and re-posted it because I needed to make some
corrections and add your screen name to the quotes (otherwise,
aggregators might not process the reply tree properly). I guess not all
clients receive or acknowledge those removals (I'm using Google Groups).
SeaHen
> Wait a minute.
> I'm not Ro...
> Oh wait, sorry.
> Carry on.
Hey, it rhymes and scans!
I'm not Ron either. I'm a 17-year-old high school student from Toronto.
(Under the same screen name, I've made numerous legitimate edits to
Wikipedia.) If I were an ad hoc sockpuppet of Ron, would my history of
posts (available on Google Groups) go back to Christmas, but contain
only 12 posts (up to and including this one) to RGFD?
Sea Wasp
We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
he's, well, NOT Ron. Even though we are ALL Ron. Yes, you too.
SeaHen
Sea Wasp wrote:
> We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
> he's, well, NOT Ron.
Maybe that's true, but it doesn't make me Ron. My name's Chris Hennick.
(SeaHen <- C. Hennick) If you Google it, I'm the math champion, not the
one who works at the White House. I have another e-mail address with my
own domain name, ch...@seahen.net, where I will confirm my identity.
(It appears to be temporarily down -- I rarely use it -- but if
anyone's interested I'll post again when it's back up.)
Now, how do we know YOU'RE not Ron?
Madkaugh
SeaHen wrote:
> Sea Wasp wrote:
>
> > We never know with Ron. He always comes
> > up with new ways to look like he's, well, NOT Ron.
>
We are all Ron, so SeaWasp is Ron.
MadKaugh
Zimri
If you're not Ron, then you're just rude: to come into our newsgroup and
tell us we're all "biased" because we use the word "master" in "dungeon
master".
And being a math champion is nice, congratulations and all that, but it
doesn't give your argument any more validity.
Woof
"SeaHen" <seah...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1143134409.7...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> It has recently come to my attention, and a Toronto Public Library
> reference librarian has confirmed, that...
>
> THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
>
Sea Wasp
You miss the point. You ARE Ron. We are ALL Ron.
>
> Now, how do we know YOU'RE not Ron?
You don't. Well, actually, Ron is ME, since if you Google on "Sea
Wasp" you will find something over 100,000 posts, going back at least
to early 1991. (I was actually online long before that; those are the
earliest posts of mine I can find, however).
Ophidian
> Ophidian wrote:
>
>>Wait a minute.
>>I'm not Ro...
>>Oh wait, sorry.
>>Carry on.
>
>
> Hey, it rhymes and scans!
>
> I'm not Ron either. I'm a 17-year-old high school student from Toronto.
"On-line, everyone is a 16 year old girl."
> (Under the same screen name, I've made numerous legitimate edits to
> Wikipedia.) If I were an ad hoc sockpuppet of Ron, would my history of
> posts (available on Google Groups) go back to Christmas, but contain
> only 12 posts (up to and including this one) to RGFD?
Maybe, he's a clever rabbat.
Ophidian
> Sea Wasp wrote:
>
>
>> We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
>>he's, well, NOT Ron.
>
>
> Maybe that's true, but it doesn't make me Ron.
Denial will get you nowhere.
(Da Nile on da udder hand...)
> My name's Chris Hennick.
> (SeaHen <- C. Hennick) If you Google it, I'm the math champion, not the
> one who works at the White House.
A near coffee spewing moment there...
> I have another e-mail address with my
> own domain name, ch...@seahen.net, where I will confirm my identity.
> (It appears to be temporarily down -- I rarely use it -- but if
> anyone's interested I'll post again when it's back up.)
>
> Now, how do we know YOU'RE not Ron?
He IS Ron.
drow
> You don't. Well, actually, Ron is ME, since if you Google on "Sea
> Wasp" you will find something over 100,000 posts, going back at least
> to early 1991. (I was actually online long before that; those are the
> earliest posts of mine I can find, however).
i'll vouch for him, since i am also ron, thus seawasp, and was there.
Ed Chauvin IV
>THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
>
>This issue must be resolved.
Bullshit.
Ed Chauvin IV
--
DISCLAIMER : WARNING: RULE # 196 is X-rated in that to calculate L,
use X = [(C2/10)^2], and RULE # 193 which is NOT meant to be read by
kids, since RULE # 187 EXPLAINS homosexuality mathematically, using
modifier G @ 11.
"I always feel left out when someone *else* gets killfiled."
--Terry Austin
Ed Chauvin IV
>
>Figured I'd point this out: both referee and lawyer, while they have no
>female counterpart, tend to imply male...
Ed Chauvin IV
>> Ophidian wrote:
>>
>>>Wait a minute.
>>>I'm not Ro...
>>>Oh wait, sorry.
>>>Carry on.
>>
>>
>> Hey, it rhymes and scans!
>>
>> I'm not Ron either. I'm a 17-year-old high school student from Toronto.
>> (Under the same screen name, I've made numerous legitimate edits to
>> Wikipedia.) If I were an ad hoc sockpuppet of Ron, would my history of
>> posts (available on Google Groups) go back to Christmas, but contain
>> only 12 posts (up to and including this one) to RGFD?
>>
>
> We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
>he's, well, NOT Ron. Even though we are ALL Ron. Yes, you too.
Not me.
Ed Chauvin IV
>>
>> "GM" is ruleset and gender neutral.
>
>But people will ask what the M stands for. When they do, you can say
>Master or you can say Mistress, but you can't put both words under one
>M.
Bullshit.
cop...@yahoo.com
Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
> Mere moments before death, SeaHen hastily scrawled:
> >
> >THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
> >
> >This issue must be resolved.
>
> Bullshit.
I'm not so sure. The whole argument sounds more like chickenshit.
Brandon
Loren...@gmx.de
Ophidian wrote:
> SeaHen wrote:
>
> > Sea Wasp wrote:
> >
> >
> >> We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
> >>he's, well, NOT Ron.
> >
> >
> > Maybe that's true, but it doesn't make me Ron.
>
> Denial will get you nowhere.
> (Da Nile on da udder hand...)
:)
> > My name's Chris Hennick.
> > (SeaHen <- C. Hennick) If you Google it, I'm the math champion, not the
> > one who works at the White House.
>
> A near coffee spewing moment there...
Tea in my case...
> > I have another e-mail address with my
> > own domain name, ch...@seahen.net, where I will confirm my identity.
> > (It appears to be temporarily down -- I rarely use it -- but if
> > anyone's interested I'll post again when it's back up.)
> >
> > Now, how do we know YOU'RE not Ron?
>
> He IS Ron.
No doubt.
LL
CapCity
"SeaHen" <seah...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1143134409.7...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> It has recently come to my attention, and a Toronto Public Library
> reference librarian has confirmed, that...
>
>
Dungeon Master is more gender neutral than your handle, "SeaHen"
SeaHen
Zimri wrote
> If you're not Ron, then you're just rude: to come into our newsgroup and
> tell us we're all "biased" because we use the word "master" in "dungeon
> master".
No, to call you biased would be to call the billions of people biased,
living or dead, who grew up with gender-specific English because the
concept of gender neutrality was unknown. I just believe that unbiased
people will use biased language if nobody comes up with an alternative.
And master is a word with distinctively male connotations, which is why
I think an alternative is needed.
> And being a math champion is nice, congratulations and all that,
Thank you very much. That's the highest compliment I've received to
date on any online forum.
SeaHen
Woof wrote:
> How about Dungeoneer?
I've heard Dungeoneer refer (used both by an NPC and those discussing
the game) to ordinary players or their characters, not the
DM/DK/DA/referee.
SeaHen
> > We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
> >he's, well, NOT Ron. Even though we are ALL Ron. Yes, you too.
>
> Not me.
Sorry Ed, but as a person who's posted on this list, you meet our
working definition of a Ron.
D.J.
Sea Wasp <seawasp...@obvioussgeinc.com> wrote:
] You miss the point. You ARE Ron. We are ALL Ron.
Hopefully we are NOT all standing behind an invisible door. That
could be painful.
JimP.
--
http://dice.drivein-jim.net/new.html dice Mar 15, 2006
http://crestar.drivein-jim.net/new.html AD&D Mar 24, 2006
http://evergame.drivein-jim.net/ EQ 1 Jan 18, 2006
Registered Linux user#185746 http://linux.drivein-jim.net/
Sea Wasp
> Mere moments before death, Sea Wasp hastily scrawled:
>
>>SeaHen wrote:
>>
>>>Ophidian wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Wait a minute.
>>>>I'm not Ro...
>>>>Oh wait, sorry.
>>>>Carry on.
>>>
>>>
>>>Hey, it rhymes and scans!
>>>
>>>I'm not Ron either. I'm a 17-year-old high school student from Toronto.
>>>(Under the same screen name, I've made numerous legitimate edits to
>>>Wikipedia.) If I were an ad hoc sockpuppet of Ron, would my history of
>>>posts (available on Google Groups) go back to Christmas, but contain
>>>only 12 posts (up to and including this one) to RGFD?
>>>
>>
>> We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
>>he's, well, NOT Ron. Even though we are ALL Ron. Yes, you too.
>
>
> Not me.
Yes, even you, Ed. You are not the Anti-Ron.
alordo...@yahoo.com
SeaHen wrote:
> Zimri wrote
> > If you're not Ron, then you're just rude: to come into our newsgroup and
> > tell us we're all "biased" because we use the word "master" in "dungeon master".
>
> No, to call you biased would be to call the billions of people biased,
> living or dead, who grew up with gender-specific English because the
> concept of gender neutrality was unknown. I just believe that unbiased
> people will use biased language if nobody comes up with an alternative.
No, no, no. It's only biased if you treat it as biased. Master *was*
gender specific, but now I can state my wife is the master of the house
(I don't address her as Mistress unless she puts on the special leather
outfit).
If Elaine on Seinfeld says she is the "Master of her domain," we still
know she is female.
So we can treat Dungeonmaster as gender neutral, just as we treat monk,
warrior, etc., as gender neutral.
> > And being a math champion is nice, congratulations and all that,
>
> Thank you very much. That's the highest compliment I've received to
> date on any online forum.
Eh? Didn't you hear someone call you Ron earlier? There are thousands
of math champions, but there is only one Ron, and He is Us. There is
no higher compliment (except for the kind that involve things an adult
shouldn't be talking to a 17 year old about)
drow
but, the TASTE... what does it TASTE like?
--
\^\ // dr...@bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
\ // - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
// \ X-Windows: It could be worse... but it'll take time.
Loren...@gmx.de
He should change to the male version ASAP.
LL
Ed Chauvin IV
You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
David Alex Lamb
No 33 Secretary <terry.nota...@gmail.com> wrote:
>What part of "It's Ron, trolling, and not even putting much effort in to
>it" isn't clear?
Gah! I've been gone long enough to have forgotten all about "ITYR".
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
David Alex Lamb
SeaHen <seah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>DragonFireCK wrote:
>> Any precise reason you decided to make the post four times? The first
>> part was posted thrice, the second part twice.
>
>Sorry, I removed and re-posted it because I needed to make some
>corrections and add your screen name to the quotes (otherwise,
>aggregators might not process the reply tree properly). I guess not all
>clients receive or acknowledge those removals (I'm using Google Groups).
Few do, and none should, otherwise you'd be able to edit posts by other people
due to the complete lack of security of the transport protocols. It only
works on Google because they think they own the world. And they're getting
closer to right all the time (as in User Friendly a few weeks ago).
David Alex Lamb
Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>You could just call them the Game Referee = GR. or gir. of course
>they could be the Game Referee/Lawyer then you have GRL or girl.
Didn't some people once use "Judge" as in "Judge's Guild"?
Madkaugh
His name is an anagram of Sheena,
also not gender neutral.
Sheena was played by Tanya Roberts,
definitely not gender neutral:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088103/
Tanya Roberts is an anagram of Stan Ray Robot
or Stray Boot Ran.
Unfortunately, the trail grows cold at this point.
MadKaugh
Ophidian
> Sea Wasp <seawasp...@obvioussgeinc.com> wrote:
> ] You miss the point. You ARE Ron. We are ALL Ron.
>
> Hopefully we are NOT all standing behind an invisible door. That
> could be painful.
Do you _see_ a door in front of you?
Ophidian
> Mere moments before death, Sea Wasp hastily scrawled:
>
>> We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
>>he's, well, NOT Ron. Even though we are ALL Ron. Yes, you too.
>
> Not me.
>
> Ed Chauvin IV
For the new kid:
Ed is the Anti-Ron.
A creature that believes fully that he is not Ron.
No amount of effort can convince the Anti-Ron that he is in fact Ron.
Ophidian
> Mere moments before death, SeaHen hastily scrawled:
>
>>Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
>>
>>>> We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
>>>>he's, well, NOT Ron. Even though we are ALL Ron. Yes, you too.
>>>
>>>Not me.
>>
>>Sorry Ed, but as a person who's posted on this list, you meet our
>>working definition of a Ron.
>
> You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
Of course not, he's Ron!
Ophidian
>
> Yes, even you, Ed. You are not the Anti-Ron.
Huh, my mistake.
But there is really no Anti-Ron.
Ophidian
> Alien mind control rays made cop...@yahoo.com <cop...@yahoo.com> write:
>
>>Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
>>
>>>Mere moments before death, SeaHen hastily scrawled:
>>>
>>>>THERE IS NO GENDER-NEUTRAL FORM OF THE TERM DUNGEONMASTER!!!
>>>>
>>>>This issue must be resolved.
>>>
>>>Bullshit.
>>
>>I'm not so sure. The whole argument sounds more like chickenshit.
>
> but, the TASTE... what does it TASTE like?
Weaselshit!
Ed Chauvin IV
>
>> Mere moments before death, Sea Wasp hastily scrawled:
>>
>>> We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
>>>he's, well, NOT Ron. Even though we are ALL Ron. Yes, you too.
>>
>> Not me.
>>
>
>Ed is the Anti-Ron.
>A creature that believes fully that he is not Ron.
>No amount of effort can convince the Anti-Ron that he is in fact Ron.
No, that's not it either. I'm Notron.
Ed Chauvin IV
No it isn't.
Ophidian
> Mere moments before death, Ophidian hastily scrawled:
>
>>Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mere moments before death, Sea Wasp hastily scrawled:
>>>
>>>
>>>> We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
>>>>he's, well, NOT Ron. Even though we are ALL Ron. Yes, you too.
>>>
>>>Not me.
>>
>>For the new kid:
>>Ed is the Anti-Ron.
>>A creature that believes fully that he is not Ron.
>>No amount of effort can convince the Anti-Ron that he is in fact Ron.
>
> No, that's not it either. I'm Notron.
Ah, my mistake.
But you're still Ron.
Loren...@gmx.de
"0.2) What does the Notron do to me?
People tend to be very extreme about the Notron. They either fall in
love with it and the way it works, or get frustrated or just don't
click
with it's design and tend to set it aside. I have yet to hear from
someone who says it's just OK."
(From http://www.synthservices.com/notron/wtb.html)
:-D
LL
tomorrow4eva
as biased. If you're concerned about equality, there's no problem.
Masters can be female. I usually use "Dungeon Master" for myself.
D.J.
Ophidian
> Ophidian <ophid...@cox.net> wrote:
> ] D.J. wrote:
> ]
> ] > Sea Wasp <seawasp...@obvioussgeinc.com> wrote:
> ] > ] You miss the point. You ARE Ron. We are ALL Ron.
> ] >
> ] > Hopefully we are NOT all standing behind an invisible door. That
> ] > could be painful.
> ]
> ] Do you _see_ a door in front of you?
>
> Did you miss the big invisible door discussion in here ?
Can you summarize it? ;)
Madkaugh
Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
> >Tanya Roberts is an anagram of Stan Ray Robot
> >or Stray Boot Ran.
>
> No it isn't.
Damn, you're right. Ten Bot Arrays. Bore Any Tarts?
Ray Ban Otters. Boy Rates Rant. Enya Brat Rots.
Botany Raters. Start Any Robe. One Tart Brays.
Stone Bart, Ray. Boney Star Rat. Years Torn Tab.
MadKaugh
Ed Chauvin IV
No, I'm notron.
D.J.
]
] Can you summarize it? ;)
Doubtful.
David Alex Lamb
For consistency, do you also reject "chair" for "chairman" and "flight
attendant" for "stewardess"?
David Alex Lamb
Madkaugh <madk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>CapCity wrote:
>> Dungeon Master is more gender neutral than your handle, "SeaHen"
>
>His name is an anagram of Sheena,
>also not gender neutral.
>
>Sheena was played by Tanya Roberts,
>definitely not gender neutral:
Also Gena Lee Nolin, for the TV version.
Rick Pikul
>> "DM" is gender neutral.
>>
>> "GM" is ruleset and gender neutral.
>
> But people will ask what the M stands for. When they do, you can say
> Master or you can say Mistress, but you can't put both words under one
> M.
Sure you can, just like the R in a criminal case stands for either Rex or
Regina.
--
Phoenix
tussock
> tomorrow4eva wrote:
>> I agree with Alordofch. Master is only gender specific if you treat it
>> as biased. If you're concerned about equality, there's no problem.
>> Masters can be female. I usually use "Dungeon Master" for myself.
>
> For consistency, do you also reject "chair" for "chairman" and "flight
> attendant" for "stewardess"?
There were always air stewards, Marge's dad was one. The
replacement is no worse than the other "make you feel important" titles
like personal assistant or service engineer.
--
tussock
Myrmidon
SeaHen, seah...@gmail.com Varfed out the following in Timo speak...
>
> Sea Wasp wrote:
>
> > We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
> > he's, well, NOT Ron.
>
> (SeaHen <- C. Hennick) If you Google it, I'm the math champion, not the
> one who works at the White House. I have another e-mail address with my
> own domain name, ch...@seahen.net, where I will confirm my identity.
> (It appears to be temporarily down -- I rarely use it -- but if
> anyone's interested I'll post again when it's back up.)
>
> Now, how do we know YOU'RE not Ron?
>
We are all but wandering servents of Ron. Nothing more than wave
tossed men. In short, we are... Ronin!
Myr -that setup was just begging for a punchline- midon
--
Non nobis solum nati sumus
"We are not born for ourselves alone."
SeaHen
Rick Pikul wrote:
> Sure you can, just like the R in a criminal case stands for either Rex or
> Regina.
It's good to see another RGFD member who lives in the British
Commonwealth. Thought I might be the only one.
David Alex Lamb
There are, or were, a bunch -- I made a list of Canadians at one point.
Robert Singers
> We are all but wandering servents of Ron. Nothing more than wave
> tossed men. In short, we are... Ronin!
Oh shut up about your hair.
--
rob singers
pull finger to reply
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Sea Wasp
Only the Anti-Ron who can never be seen is the true Anti-Ron. So,
basically, he's invisible.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
Sea Wasp
> Mere moments before death, Ophidian hastily scrawled:
>
>>Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mere moments before death, Sea Wasp hastily scrawled:
>>>
>>>
>>>> We never know with Ron. He always comes up with new ways to look like
>>>>he's, well, NOT Ron. Even though we are ALL Ron. Yes, you too.
>>>
>>>Not me.
>>>
>>
>>For the new kid:
>>Ed is the Anti-Ron.
>>A creature that believes fully that he is not Ron.
>>No amount of effort can convince the Anti-Ron that he is in fact Ron.
>
>
> No, that's not it either. I'm Notron.
Isn't that one of the Decepticons?
Lizard
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
Brandon Blackmoor
>>> "GM" is ruleset and gender neutral.
>> But people will ask what the M stands for. When they do, you can say
>> Master or you can say Mistress, but you can't put both words under one
>> M.
Out here in the real world, we have been using the phrase Game Moderator
(GM) since around 1990.
--
bblackmoor
2006-04-01
Ophidian
We?
Sounds like a niche.
I think to most of _us_ GM is still Game Master.