Anatomy question regarding Elves
Rob
My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
female elves? We were just curious. Please do not email replys, post
in newsgroup. Thanks
Rob
LordSchmit
>My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
>female elves? We were just curious. Please do not email replys, post
>in newsgroup. Thanks
I believe (I could be wrong) elven females are fetile at only certain times
(once every few years), so they probably don't have a regular menstral cycle.
Pinochet
Rob wrote in message <353a6cbc...@news.iconn.net>...
>My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
>female elves?
How do you want to answer the question? I don't believe TSR has a
standard position on this subject(though I could be wrong, as I haven't
read the CBE), so you're probably better off coming up with something
on your own..
Here's some suggestions:
As normal(Once a month)
Once every three/four months
Once every year(at some seasonal event)
J. Scott
Ahem...excuse me...just because elves appear to be mammalian and
look similar to humans, why should they have to have so many similarities
to humans? Considering the different mythologies and creation beliefs of
each race in each world, who says the elves should have to menstruate at
all?
Aside, I wonder why it came up in your game...most games I've
heard of tend to overlook this aspect of life just they overlook how often
Mr. Adventurer-Hero So-and-So visits the outhouse...
Knight of Emita
On 20 Apr 1998, James Adams wrote:
> I would say that you'd have to work in how much longer elves live, on
> average, in your campaign than humans.
>
> Say an elf lives ten times longer than a human (human: 80 - elf: 800), then
> the elf woman will menstruate every ten months.
>
> Chris Adams
>
>
Chris Pierson
In article <353a6cbc...@news.iconn.net>, Rob <rob...@iconn.net> wrote:
>My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
>in newsgroup. Thanks
Let me just consult the Complete Book of Menstruation ...
Seriously, the best thing to do is take it up with your DM. If you are the
DM, make it up, using a bit of creativity and common sense. Bear in mind
that elves who reproduce as often as humans (especially in a medieval
setting, w.o. birth control and such) would have a hell of a lot of
children.
--
****************************************************************************
Chris Pierson ** Want me never, ever, EVER to consider giving you or your
Game Designer ** company money? Great! Keep those spam ads coming!
****************************************************************************
James Adams
Stewart
> >female elves?
>
> standard position on this subject(though I could be wrong, as I haven't
> read the CBE), so you're probably better off coming up with something
> on your own..
>
> Here's some suggestions:
>
> As normal(Once a month)
> Once every three/four months
> Once every year(at some seasonal event)
Once a year for all elves would be convenient, then all male elves would
know when to go on a hunting trip or somthing to get away from, well,
you know......
--
Zachary P. Stewart
Call me a joker, call me a fool
Right at this moment I'm totaly cool
Clear as a crystal, sharp as a knife
I feel like I'm in the prime of my life
Sometimes it feels like I'm going too fast
I don't know how long this feeling will last
Maybe it's only tonight -B.Joel
Threshold RPG
In article <353a6cbc...@news.iconn.net>, rob...@iconn.net (Rob) wrote:
>My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
>in newsgroup. Thanks
Why were you wondering such things? Does it matter? This seems like an
extremely immature thing to be wondering about.
-Aristotle@Threshold
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Threshold RPG
In article <6healj$7...@news-central.tiac.net>, cpie...@tiac.net (Chris Pierson) wrote:
>In article <353a6cbc...@news.iconn.net>, Rob <rob...@iconn.net> wrote:
>>My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
>>female elves? We were just curious. Please do not email replys, post
>>in newsgroup. Thanks
>
Heh.
I wouldn't be surprised if such a thing was in the planning stages for old
T$R.
It is a good thing the old T$R didn't print a hardback copy of such a
handbook. If they had, new TSR would put out a paperback version and up the
price.
Blcknite99
>Why were you wondering such things? Does it matter? This seems like an <BR>
>extremely immature thing to be wondering about.<BR>
><BR>
>-Aristotle@Threshold<BR>
><BR>
perhaps a PC is trying to conceive a child? just a thought...
make it once every 10 years, or whatever it was from the original Star Trek
series. you know those Vulcans were just space-based elves! just look at the
ears.
josh
Shaman
Rob <rob...@iconn.net> <353a6cbc...@news.iconn.net>...
> My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
> female elves? We were just curious. Please do not email replys, post
> in newsgroup. Thanks
>
Taking in consideration that the elve pregnancy state lasts almost 2 years
you can easily make a nice rule . Most people (as I have seen) think that
questions such as these are immature . IMO they are not , most of the
old mythological and folkclorical beliefs had a lot of sexuality and
fertility
aspects on them , and the Elves , that seem to have a special relation to
the Moon ... well they must indeed have a very special ocasion for
menstruation .
Ancient tribes and ancient lore regarded menstruation as an impure aspect
of womanhood , and thus , certain aspect of the moon , like the waning
and waxing of it , made old people believe the Menstrual Cycle was
in direct relation to it , because the menstrual cycle is close to a month
wich is the approx. time the menstrual cycle come and goes .
Since elves are more magically oriented than humans , and their relation
to the Natural Aspects of the World more close , the Moon in your world
should have a final impact on the menstrual cycle of Female elven women .
Perhaps male elves consider this part of female fertility sacred , or
perhaps
, like their barbarian counterparts , unholy or dirty , and then a lot of
plots
and ideas for your female fertile elven women might sprout .
This also leads me to remember a discussion on the basic composition on
Elven Skin , and the way their bodies deteriorate when dead ... Feist's
Elves
didn't bury their dead , because their bodies would be easily swallowed by
nature , while AD&D Elves do bury them but to make the same thing ,
being returned to the soil to keep the natural balance of things . It is my
belief
that Elves , regarding sexuality and fertility rites , have a lot of
Folklore
that needs to be explored . I have tried and have a lot of ideas about
them , specially certain "logical" reasons for their slow age , being
based on the PH of their Skin to small Clorophile Pigmentations ....
these kind of questions make a RPG Wolrd thrive ... problem is
most people tend to link sexuality with genital-ity ...
If some people ever had any ideas about these "dark aspects" of
Elven or of other "fantasy" people I would be glad to hear about them
on this NG ... If not , life goes on ...
Peace! .
Deborah L. Sanyk
Threshold RPG wrote in message <6hej99$sbp$6...@supernews.com>...
>In article <353a6cbc...@news.iconn.net>, rob...@iconn.net (Rob) wrote:
>>My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
>>female elves? We were just curious. Please do not email replys, post
>>in newsgroup. Thanks
>
>Why were you wondering such things? Does it matter? This seems like an
>extremely immature thing to be wondering about.
I wouldn't say so necessarily. There aren't mature and immature subjects,
only the way you handle them.
If you study cultural anthropology a little bit, you'd see just how
important menstruation is in some cultures, particularly pre-industrial
hunting and gathering tribes, but also more "advanced" cultures. Little
details like this, if handled well, could give the campaign world a lot of
added depth. For instance, IMC a female elf's magical ability is directly
tied to their reproductive ability, so menstrual cycles are very important
for a female elf mage to keep track of. Whether you're a virgin or a mother
is also important (being one or the other can open up different powers to
you, and close off others.) Since I don't play with Beavis and Butt-head,
these issues are something that everyone is capable of dealing with.
----gup
Deborah L. Sanyk
J. Scott wrote in message ...
> Ahem...excuse me...just because elves appear to be mammalian and
>look similar to humans, why should they have to have so many similarities
>to humans? Considering the different mythologies and creation beliefs of
>each race in each world, who says the elves should have to menstruate at
>all?
Well, seeing as how they can reproduce with humans and all, it doesn't seem
too farfetched. Unless you're playing with a different breed of elves in
some alien campaign world.
----guppy
Simon
In article <6hej99$sbp$6...@supernews.com>, thre...@counseltech.com
(Threshold RPG) wrote:
> In article <353a6cbc...@news.iconn.net>, rob...@iconn.net (Rob) wrote:
> >My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
> >female elves? We were just curious. Please do not email replys, post
> >in newsgroup. Thanks
>
> Why were you wondering such things? Does it matter? This seems like an
> extremely immature thing to be wondering about.
Well, it defintiely has an effect on how often elven wimmin can give
birth, and therefore on elven population growth rates. This is of
particular importance if there's any particular racial antagonisms (e.g.
Elf/Orc war) IYC. Remember, just because it relates to reproduction
doesn't mean that it will be used in some erotic context.
>
> -Aristotle@Threshold
>
--
Simon..
"Suspicion Breeds Confidence"
--Brazil
Quentin M Small
This sort of thing may be covered in the AD&D Guide to Sex, although I
have no idea where to find the latest version of that document.
Generally, at least IMC, elves age about one seventh the rate of
humans, ie, they age 1 year for every seven they're alive. Following
this line of thought, an elven menstrual cycle would be about 7
months. This would result in a decrease in elven fertility (which
makes sense).
Q
J. Scott
That came across as ruder than I meant it to be...I just wanted to
emphasize that one shouldn't be bound by such expectations in a fantastic
setting. The Greek gods bred with humans, too, but rarely is there
mention of menstruation... And what of the problems with breeding between
humans and the other races (dwarves, gnomes, halflings) that most game
settings assume? Interesting, though, that humans and orcs should have no
trouble...you wonder about humans and elves, humans and orcs, ...elves and
orcs?
You just have to figure it out for yourself, unless your gameworld
already says something to affect it...
Knight of Emita
David Callander
"Deborah L. Sanyk" <dsa...@bright.net> (Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:42:40
-0400) wrote:
>Well, seeing as how they can reproduce with humans and all, it doesn't seem
>too farfetched. Unless you're playing with a different breed of elves in
>some alien campaign world.
Such as mine ... where Elves only mate once every ten years, and the
women lay eggs? In this case, the question is irrelevant - Elves do
not menstruate at all. And there's nothing to say that an Elf from my
world couldn't mate with a Human - John Carter managed it when on Mars
somehow! (mated with a female Barsoomian who laid an egg and bore him
a child)...
But anyway, who says that Elves need to menstruate at all? What other
species on Earth menstruate? I thought most did not. So why do Elves
have to?
David.
[DM for The Land, home of The Place and other imaginitive locations.
And now Elf-Land, a testing ground for my new AD&D systems! Only elves allowed!]
Quentin M Small
I believe the MC entry for Orcs specifically states that they can't
breed with elves, although the whys and wherefores are left vague.
One would wonder why that is since Human-Orc and Human-Elf crossbreeds
are both possible.
As for Dwarves, Gnomes and Halflings, I've always assumed that they
are of the same base racial stock, since, for example, Stout Halflings
seem to possess some dwarven or gnomish blood.
Q
"J. Scott" <jhgs...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>> J. Scott wrote in message ...
>> > Ahem...excuse me...just because elves appear to be mammalian and
>> >look similar to humans, why should they have to have so many similarities
>> >to humans? Considering the different mythologies and creation beliefs of
>> >each race in each world, who says the elves should have to menstruate at
>> >all?
>>
>> Well, seeing as how they can reproduce with humans and all, it doesn't seem
>> too farfetched. Unless you're playing with a different breed of elves in
>> some alien campaign world.
>
Chris Baile
On Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:47:10 GMT, Has...@ihug.co.nz (David Callander)
wrote:
>"Deborah L. Sanyk" <dsa...@bright.net> (Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:42:40
>-0400) wrote:
>
>>Well, seeing as how they can reproduce with humans and all, it doesn't seem
>>too farfetched. Unless you're playing with a different breed of elves in
>>some alien campaign world.
>
>Such as mine ... where Elves only mate once every ten years, and the
>women lay eggs? In this case, the question is irrelevant - Elves do
>not menstruate at all. And there's nothing to say that an Elf from my
>world couldn't mate with a Human - John Carter managed it when on Mars
>somehow! (mated with a female Barsoomian who laid an egg and bore him
>a child)...
>
>But anyway, who says that Elves need to menstruate at all? What other
>species on Earth menstruate? I thought most did not. So why do Elves
>have to?
>
>
>David.
>[DM for The Land, home of The Place and other imaginitive locations.
> And now Elf-Land, a testing ground for my new AD&D systems! Only elves allowed!]
I think most mammals menstruate. This is also known as "in heat" and
the smell apparently attracts males of the species and stimulates them
to mate.
I believe that the only species that do not menstruate are aquatic
mammals, such as sea cows, whales, dolphins, and possibly hippos, and
any mammal with a pouch, like a kangaroo or possum.
------
"I'd like to clear this up before we bring out Carrot
Top. I'm not `down' with Carrot Top. I don't `have his
back', and under no circumstances will I `Give him
his props.'"
- Craig Kilborn, The Daily Show
"What is fun? Why is it colored pink? And where does
it go when Jesse Helms comes around?"
- Author unknown
"Cartman, what the HELL are you talking about!?"
- Stan, South Park
J. Scott
One thing to remember, though, is that only primates (I believe)
_bleed_ as much as we do during that cycle. Most mammals conserve their
fluids better than we do.
Knight of Emita
Deborah L. Sanyk
J. Scott wrote in message ...
>> J. Scott wrote in message ...
>> > Ahem...excuse me...just because elves appear to be mammalian and
>> >look similar to humans, why should they have to have so many
similarities
>> >to humans? Considering the different mythologies and creation beliefs
of
>> >each race in each world, who says the elves should have to menstruate at
>> >all?
>>
>> Well, seeing as how they can reproduce with humans and all, it doesn't
seem
>> too farfetched. Unless you're playing with a different breed of elves in
>> some alien campaign world.
>
> That came across as ruder than I meant it to be...I just wanted to
>emphasize that one shouldn't be bound by such expectations in a fantastic
>setting. The Greek gods bred with humans, too, but rarely is there
>mention of menstruation...
In some of the Greek myths about various goddesses, someone seeing a goddess
nude was either killed and devoured by wild animals, or turned to stone,
etc. Thus, mortals probably wouldn't have much opportunity to learn about
whether their goddesses menstruated. Whether they did or didn't, they
*were* nigh-omnipotent beings, and I suppose that some sort of miracle
conception could have been possible assuming that they didn't.
>And what of the problems with breeding between
>humans and the other races (dwarves, gnomes, halflings) that most game
>settings assume?
What of it? I'm pretty sure that the only reason that 1/2elves and 1/2orcs
were included and the other possible combinations weren't wasn't because
such breeding was impossible (though in any given campaign, that may be the
rule) but simply because these races had the most interactions with each
other. Where interaction occurs, you can expect to see (at least an attempt
at) cross-breeding. Sometimes, no, if there are two races that are
completely repulsed by each other, but as a general rule, *somebody*'s going
to "get friendly with the natives" at some point... I'd guess that Gygax
just didn't see enough interaction and mutual attraction going on between
humans and gnomes/dwarves/halflings.
> Interesting, though, that humans and orcs should have no
>trouble...you wonder about humans and elves, humans and orcs, ...elves and
>orcs?
generally speaking, elves and orcs are too repulsed by each other for
anything to happen. I've read of them being genetically incompatible, which
is difficult but not impossible to be the case, given that both *are*
genetically compatible with humans. Now, I'm not a geneticist, but I
imagine that there are probably some breeds of certain animals that aren't
able to cross with each other. Usually, the "breeding criteria" is what
scientists use to determine if two organisms are of the same species--if a
viable offspring is possible, then they are considered to be the same
species. Then, in the case of humans, elves, and orcs, what we might expect
to find is that this is actually a single species (or three very closely
related sub-species). Of which, humans are able to breed with either of the
other two, but for some reason there is some kind of incompatibility between
the elves and orcs. Perhaps conception can occur, but all fetuses are
stillborn or something like that.
> You just have to figure it out for yourself, unless your gameworld
>already says something to affect it...
That's the best part about the rulebooks: the part that says "make up
whatever you want that isn't covered here, and feel free to change what is
here if you don't like it."
-----guppy
James Adams
Well, it hasn't for me, since I was just answering a previous poster . . .
But I guess it came up because an elf PC married another PC . . . but
that's just my guess.
Kaviyd
In article <353ba7c5...@news.pcisys.net>, sau...@pcisys.net (Quentin M
Small) writes:
>I believe the MC entry for Orcs specifically states that they can't
>breed with elves, although the whys and wherefores are left vague.
>One would wonder why that is since Human-Orc and Human-Elf crossbreeds
>are both possible.
Maybe they are just rarer than Human crossbreeds. In the world of Mystara,
there is a race called the Shadow Elves who abandon their deformed young
to be raised by Orcs. These Elves apparently do grow up to mate with Orcs
and have viable offspring. This may be one reason why the goblinoids of
that world can be actual Mages -- they all have some Elf ancestry.
Kav...@aol.com
(David Knott)
Reading mail from me in a Usenet group does not grant you the
right to send me unsolicited commercial e-mail. All senders of
unsolicited commercial e-mail will be reported to their postmasters
as Usenet abusers.
Kaviyd
In article <353ba918...@news.citnet.com>, power...@citnet.com (Chris
Baile) writes:
>I think most mammals menstruate. This is also known as "in heat" and
>the smell apparently attracts males of the species and stimulates them
>to mate.
As I recall, one distinctive feature of humans is that female humans
never go into heat -- they can mate whenever they want to, not just
when they are most fertile. Most campaigns would assume that elves
and other humanoids share this characteristic -- if they do not, then
this difference would have major social consequences.
One possibility is that Elves have subtler cycles than humans -- even
female Elves are not sure when their periods are, and the blood loss
is so small as to go unnoticed.
One source of inspiration on this question might be Anne Logston's
"Shadow" series. In that series, Elves had a much lower fertility than
Humans and compensated to a slight extent by being promiscuous.
Kaviyd
In article <6hh4je$dq3$1...@cletus.bright.net>, "Deborah L. Sanyk"
<dsa...@bright.net> writes:
>In some of the Greek myths about various goddesses, someone seeing a goddess
>nude was either killed and devoured by wild animals, or turned to stone,
>etc. Thus, mortals probably wouldn't have much opportunity to learn about
>whether their goddesses menstruated. Whether they did or didn't, they
>*were* nigh-omnipotent beings, and I suppose that some sort of miracle
>conception could have been possible assuming that they didn't.
I wonder if that deadly effect is under the control of the goddess? If not,
then
Aphrodite must have gone to a great deal of trouble to mate with the mortal
Anchises (father of Aeneas) without killing him.
Another item in regard to the Greek gods -- I recall reading that their seed
was supposed to be especially potent. By this theory, EVERY mating
between a god and a mortal woman resulted in pregnancy. There is even
one story of a god who tried (and failed) to mate with a virgin goddess --
the seed that he spilled on the ground conceived a child on its own!
Colin Whiteway
I'll disagree on that one. If you use this then you must also be
assuming that their gestation (sp?) follows the same guidelines. I have
read somewhere before, don't ask me where but I'm not making this up,
that Elven females carry their babies for 12 months. I think that
placing
menstrual cycles at once per year, perhaps in the spring so that the
young
are born the following spring would be logical. Since human cycles
coordinate
with the orbit of our moon perhaps the Elven one could run along the
same
timeline as another, slower planet...maybe even a comet.
bandito
mark edward hardwidge
Uhh...what? The moon does not control human biology.
--
Mark E. Hardwidge
hard...@uiuc.edu
sie...@yahoo.com
In article <6hh4je$dq3$1...@cletus.bright.net>#1/1,
"Deborah L. Sanyk" <dsa...@bright.net> wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the only reason that 1/2elves and 1/2orcs
> were included and the other possible combinations weren't wasn't because
> such breeding was impossible (though in any given campaign, that may be the
> rule) but simply because these races had the most interactions with each
> other.
And _I'm_ pretty sure they was included because orcs and elves as they appear
in fantasy gaming (especially earlier games - like ?D&D) are heavily based on
good ol' Mr Tolkien, and human-orc and human-elf crossbreeds appears in his
works but not dwarf-orc or dwarf-elf crossbreeds (though I seem to recall the
'umli' race, whose got traits of both dwarfs and humans).
I'd say that humans have just as much interaction with dwarfs as with elves -
and halflings having more interactions with humans with any of them (ina
bog-standard cliché fantasy world, that is - the usual cop-out).
And orc crossbreeds can well occur because of orcs raping females from other
races - I've always assumed that being the main origin for the poor
half-orcs, considering the more than negative attitudes from all other races
towards the orcs.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
'Nathan
If I'm not mistaken half-dwarves are Muls from Dark Sun, right? DS also
did Elf/Halfling crossbreeds, too, I think (Elflings). I don't know for
sure, since I don't own Dark Sun or any part of it... but.
All I remember about Muls are that they're sterile (ha ha, Mule, Mul.
*snort*).
'Nathan
--
nbur...@chat.carleton.ca |\|~|
http://wabakimi.carleton.ca/~nburgoin |_|\|
"when i look down, i just miss all the good stuff
when i look up, i just trip over things" -- ani difranco
'Nathan
In the world 'Nathan made up, mark edward hardwidge <hard...@students.uiuc.edu> said:
meh> Colin Whiteway <gi...@thezone.net> wrote:
>> Since human cycles coordinate with the orbit of our moon
meh> Uhh...what? The moon does not control human biology.
I can field this one - most women cycle on about 28 days, just like the
moon does. It used to be called a "lunar time" or "moon time" in some
pagan systems instead of all the lovely names we have for it now (*cough*).
Basically, a woman could look at the moon, say "Hrm. 1/4 waning.. I always
have my period at the new moon, so I've got..."
The other thing is that women in closed environments (ie, two women, same
house) tend to end up in synch (being a little early or a little late
until they're on teh same schedule). I always thought that was
interesting....
mark edward hardwidge
'Nathan <nbur...@prince.carleton.ca> wrote:
> meh> Uhh...what? The moon does not control human biology.
> I can field this one - most women cycle on about 28 days, just like the
> moon does.
Right, but for two things:
1) Just because two things have approximately the same period does not
mean that one causes the other.
2) The period of the human menstral cycle varies in length, and isn't
exactly the same as the period as the lunar cycle, anyway, just
somewhat close.
Pinochet
mark edward hardwidge wrote in message <6hierd$2vs$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
>'Nathan <nbur...@prince.carleton.ca> wrote:
>> meh> Uhh...what? The moon does not control human biology.
>> I can field this one - most women cycle on about 28 days, just like the
>> moon does.
>
> Right, but for two things:
>1) Just because two things have approximately the same period does not
>mean that one causes the other.
Aah, but there may be some relationship between the two...or there may
not...it is an odd coincidence though, wouldn't you say?
>2) The period of the human menstral cycle varies in length, and isn't
>exactly the same as the period as the lunar cycle, anyway, just
>somewhat close.
Well, yes the period of the human menstrual cycle does vary, both
from individual to individual, and in many cases in an individual(though
there are numerous women who are fairly regular), but then no biological
function is perfectly uniform, so the cause of the difference is possibly
just a form of entrophy..
Pinochet
mark edward hardwidge wrote in message <6hhjqf$eto$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
>Colin Whiteway <gi...@thezone.net> wrote:
>> Since human cycles coordinate with the orbit of our moon
>
> Uhh...what? The moon does not control human biology.
No, the moon does not control human biology, however it does
seem to have an influence, both in female menstrual cycles and
in human behavior(ever looked at the trend for crime rates to
increase during periods of a full moon?).
'Nathan
>> meh> Uhh...what? The moon does not control human biology.
>> I can field this one - most women cycle on about 28 days, just like the
>> moon does.
meh> Right, but for two things:
meh> 1) Just because two things have approximately the same period does not
meh> mean that one causes the other.
meh> 2) The period of the human menstral cycle varies in length, and isn't
meh> exactly the same as the period as the lunar cycle, anyway, just
meh> somewhat close.
I know. I just pointed out where the thought came from and why
people used the moon for measuring their cycles...
'Nathan
In the world 'Nathan made up, Pinochet <nogra...@spam.sprintmail.me.com> said:
P> No, the moon does not control human biology, however it does
P> seem to have an influence, both in female menstrual cycles and
P> in human behavior(ever looked at the trend for crime rates to
P> increase during periods of a full moon?).
And the psych student in me says, "You can see more by the light of a full
moon."
Gregory Bernath
Pinochet <nogra...@spam.sprintmail.me.com> wrote:
>No, the moon does not control human biology, however it does
>seem to have an influence, both in female menstrual cycles and
>in human behavior(ever looked at the trend for crime rates to
>increase during periods of a full moon?).
Statisticians have. There's no such increase. Not in crime, not in
hospital admissions, not in anything.
People notice the full moon. They don't notice a lack of a full moon.
Thus, events happening during the full moon get attributed to the moon,
while events happening other times get forgotten. And thus urban legends
are born.
--
Greg Bernath gber...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
Pinochet
Gregory Bernath wrote in message ...
>Pinochet <nogra...@spam.sprintmail.me.com> wrote:
>
>>No, the moon does not control human biology, however it does
>>seem to have an influence, both in female menstrual cycles and
>>in human behavior(ever looked at the trend for crime rates to
>>increase during periods of a full moon?).
>
>Statisticians have. There's no such increase. Not in crime, not in
>hospital admissions, not in anything.
Hmm, we must be be looking at different studies then...oh well,
it's not like anything has been PROVEN either way...
>People notice the full moon. They don't notice a lack of a full moon.
Yes, this is an unfortunate cause of error in any study of the subject,
and makes it hard to do an unbiased test..
mark edward hardwidge
Pinochet <nogra...@spam.sprintmail.me.com> wrote:
> No, the moon does not control human biology, however it does seem to
> have an influence, both in female menstrual cycles
No, it doesn't. It is not too amazing to me that there is at
least one biological function with the same approximate period as at
least one astronomical phenomenon.
ron poirier
Gregory Bernath wrote:
>
> Pinochet <nogra...@spam.sprintmail.me.com> wrote:
>
> >No, the moon does not control human biology, however it does
> >in human behavior(ever looked at the trend for crime rates to
> >increase during periods of a full moon?).
>
> Statisticians have. There's no such increase. Not in crime, not in
> hospital admissions, not in anything.
>
> while events happening other times get forgotten. And thus urban legends
> are born.
>
> --
> Greg Bernath gber...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
Greg, you may be right about that, but this I know:
The moon has a profound effect on the activity cycles of mussels.
It's been documented.
Now, as far as the other stuff goes, I really don't know. I've asked
police officers, as well as senior teachers, and they all tend to agree
that the moon has an effect on behaviour; myself, I think that
temperature and season have a far greater effect. Then again, I have no
data on the subject (sniff!).
- Ron ^*^
Pinochet
mark edward hardwidge wrote in message <6hj8gv$1ls$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
>Pinochet <nogra...@spam.sprintmail.me.com> wrote:
>> No, the moon does not control human biology, however it does seem to
>> have an influence, both in female menstrual cycles
>
> No, it doesn't.
Yes, it does.... Note the word "seem" that means the case has NOT been
proven either way
> It is not too amazing to me that there is at least one biological function
with
> the same approximate period as at least one astronomical phenomenon.
Hmm, you might want to use "event" instead, as the connotation of
phenomena implies something it being about a marvel.. And no, it is
not too amazing, but then neither is it too mundane..
J.J. Emerson
mark edward hardwidge wrote in message <6hj8gv$1ls$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
>Pinochet <nogra...@spam.sprintmail.me.com> wrote:
>> No, the moon does not control human biology, however it does seem to
>> have an influence, both in female menstrual cycles
>
> No, it doesn't. It is not too amazing to me that there is at
>least one biological function with the same approximate period as at
>least one astronomical phenomenon.
>Mark E. Hardwidge
So, where's your evidence? I would be inclined to believe you if you
were to provide evidence. However, given the great number of animals that DO
experience entrainment of behavior from external environmental stimuli
(including lunar cycles, circadian rhythms, circannual rhythms, etc.), I am
not prepared to believe you just because you say so. Why would lunar
entrainment of human female menstrual cycles not be possible? Certainly
there is a strong possibility that such cycles are free running, but what
mechanism sets them?
I have not come across this particular aspect of sexual receptivity in
my study of Biology, but other experiences lead me to believe it is at least
possible (and probably IS true in some species, if not in humans). If you
have any information on the subject, I'd be delighted to read about it.
J.J. Emerson
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Common sense is nothing more than a deposit
of prejudices laid down by the mind before you
reach eighteen."
A. Einstein
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rupert Boleyn
rob...@iconn.net (Rob) wrote:
>My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
>female elves? We were just curious. Please do not email replys, post
>in newsgroup. Thanks
I see no reason why they should mentruate at all, as far as I know
only humans do. As to their ovulation cycle, who knows. In my worlds
female Elfs can pretty much choose whether to conceive or not, so it's
not a relevant question.
--
R. Boleyn <rbo...@clear.net.nz>
Palmerston North, New Zealand
"This weak, degenerate generation - even their sins are watered down.
The old pirates of my father's day could have eaten them all for
breakfast and digested their bones before lunch."
_The Warrior's Apprentice_, by Lois McMaster Bujold
Rupert Boleyn
power...@citnet.com (Chris Baile) wrote:
>I think most mammals menstruate. This is also known as "in heat" and
>the smell apparently attracts males of the species and stimulates them
>to mate.
>
>I believe that the only species that do not menstruate are aquatic
>mammals, such as sea cows, whales, dolphins, and possibly hippos, and
>any mammal with a pouch, like a kangaroo or possum.
A female mammal goes 'on heat' when it ovulates, the other 'end' of
the cycle from menstruation. AFAIK only humans actually menstruate, as
in 'bleed' due to poor reabsorbtion of the uterine lining. Yet another
case of piss poor design, to go with fallen arches and bad backs.
Rupert Boleyn
sau...@pcisys.net (Quentin M Small) wrote:
>Generally, at least IMC, elves age about one seventh the rate of
>humans, ie, they age 1 year for every seven they're alive. Following
>this line of thought, an elven menstrual cycle would be about 7
>months. This would result in a decrease in elven fertility (which
>makes sense).
I find it facinating that just about everyone (myself included, once
upon a time) uses relative lifespan as a measure of how long gestation
and menstrual cycles should be. IFAIK these things are not
proportional in nature, at least not linearly.
Kaviyd
In article <6hje15$48d$1...@joe.rice.edu>, "J.J. Emerson" <j...@owlnet.rice.edux>
writes:
> Why would lunar
>entrainment of human female menstrual cycles not be possible?
For one thing -- there seems to be no time of the lunar month when
women are more likely to be having her periods than any other. If
"that time of the month" tended to come at a particular phase of the
moon, then I might believe that there was some connection.
Deborah L. Sanyk
Gregory Bernath wrote in message ...
>Pinochet <nogra...@spam.sprintmail.me.com> wrote:
>
>>No, the moon does not control human biology, however it does
>>seem to have an influence, both in female menstrual cycles and
>>in human behavior(ever looked at the trend for crime rates to
>>increase during periods of a full moon?).
>
>Statisticians have. There's no such increase. Not in crime, not in
>hospital admissions, not in anything.
>
>People notice the full moon. They don't notice a lack of a full moon.
>Thus, events happening during the full moon get attributed to the moon,
>while events happening other times get forgotten. And thus urban legends
>are born.
Perhaps. For us, in our times. I wonder though about the world before
electric lighting became commonplace. Are records for such times complete
enough and accurate enough for interested parties to do a credible study?
My thoughts: Covert nighttime operations were probably a lot easier to
carry out when there was a full moon to provide some illumination. I'm
assuming you didn't want to be carrying a torch, lantern, or candle, which
could attract unwanted attention if you were up to something. So there
still could be some practical advantages to doing certain nighttime things
when there's a full moon, and thus you might expect to see more of those
activities taking place then. It doesn't have to be a psychological or
astrological cause-effect relationship.
----guppy
Dave Harper
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:11:10 GMT, rbo...@clear.net.nz (Rupert Boleyn)
wrote:
>A female mammal goes 'on heat' when it ovulates, the other 'end' of
>the cycle from menstruation. AFAIK only humans actually menstruate, as
>in 'bleed' due to poor reabsorbtion of the uterine lining. Yet another
>case of piss poor design, to go with fallen arches and bad backs.
Dogs menstruate. I remember that from my Human Sexuality
class...we spent a week on menstruation and menarche, and a week on
menopause. I don't think any other known mammal menstruates...and
dogs do so differently from humans; it's often undetectable because
the amount of blood is much less than in humans (which is already low.
One tablespoon per cycle...or was that teaspoon? Can't remember.).
On the other hand, the idea of elves in heat is kinda funky.
<grin> 364 days of the year, they're cold, unfeeling...then on one
day, they become wild animals...reminds me of some office parties...
Dave
"Trying...to get through interview...as best I can!
Must use...old spaceship captain training!"
-Conan O'Brian, interviewing William Shatner 16/4/98
Dave Harper
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:11:11 GMT, rbo...@clear.net.nz (Rupert Boleyn)
wrote:
>I find it facinating that just about everyone (myself included, once
>upon a time) uses relative lifespan as a measure of how long gestation
>and menstrual cycles should be. IFAIK these things are not
>proportional in nature, at least not linearly.
They're related, though. I think I gave elves a 2-year
pregnancy/gestation, which is pretty darn long...but compared to the
fact that elves live something like 6 times human maximum in my game,
it's not at all what you'd expect.
Actually, I figure that even that 2 years might be too
much...when you look at the 'game effects' of it...you're looking at
an *awfully* long time (9-12 months) in which the female has to be
protected, has little to no mobility, and requires excess food and
warmth...and I can't see elves using pack animals to carry their
mothers to safety, in a forest.
On the other hand, I gave Krithi (a cat-like mammalian race
that goes into heat) a regular 6-month pregnancy/heat cycle. So maybe
elves don't have it all that bad...
Dave Harper
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:10:58 GMT, rbo...@clear.net.nz (Rupert Boleyn)
wrote:
>rob...@iconn.net (Rob) wrote:
>
>>My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
>>female elves? We were just curious. Please do not email replys, post
>>in newsgroup. Thanks
>
>I see no reason why they should mentruate at all, as far as I know
>only humans do. As to their ovulation cycle, who knows. In my worlds
>female Elfs can pretty much choose whether to conceive or not, so it's
>not a relevant question.
Well, they can breed true with humans (and their offspring can
have offspring), so they're not a separate species, by definition.
That sort of implies they're similar in other ways related to
breeding...<shrug>
In my game, to simulate the low fertility rates of elves, I
give *both* female and male elves a cycle of fertility. The only high
chance (about 1%) is when both are at the peaks of their cycles (which
lasts for about one day in each case...yeah, I know that's not the way
humans do it). Because the cycles vary...say, a 28-day female and a
25-day male...it could be years before they reach that 'peak' moment.
So for any given pair of elves, the answer to 'when are you the most
fertile' is different. That way you don't have one day when all the
elves are at home in bed making little elven children while the orcs
attack. =)
Of course, this also means that if two elves happen to have
the same exact cycle - say, 28 days and 28 days - they're either
always fertile, or always not - and the chance is 27/28 (97%) that the
answer is "NOT".
All this sort of keeps elven children rare, but not unheard
of, IMC.
Kaviyd
In article <353d55bb...@news.clear.net.nz>, rbo...@clear.net.nz (Rupert
Boleyn) writes:
>I find it facinating that just about everyone (myself included, once
>upon a time) uses relative lifespan as a measure of how long gestation
>and menstrual cycles should be. IFAIK these things are not
>proportional in nature, at least not linearly.
As a matter of fact gestation period seems to be related more to body
size than anything else -- thus the gestation period of an elephant is
about two years, even though the life span of an elephant is slightly less
than that of a human.
Since Elves are slightly smaller than humans, their gestation period
should be slightly shorter. But given the amount of uncertainty there
is in such calculations, the "official" figure of twelve months is not too
out of line.
As for menstrual/fertility cycles, they are far more variable -- but I thought
I read somewhere that the human cycle is relatively short and therefore
less extreme in its effects on mating urges than that of various animals
that go into heat perhaps once a year. For this reason I would suggest
that the cycle of an elf is no longer than that of a human -- otherwise they
would have definite mating seasons, which does not seem to be the case.
Adams
In ancient societies priestesses would be able to keep track of the cycles
of the moon and the year by paying attention to their menstruation, etc. It
got to the stage where they would be able to calculate the lunar cycle
instinctively.
The "connection" between the lunar month and a woman's period was regarded
as a natural mystical connection by some ancient societies, and that is why
the moon is connected with goddesses (Diana, Artemis, Selune, Hecate) and
why priestesses are usually connected with the moon in such societies.
--
Christopher Adams
hijo de la diosa
Kaviyd
In article <6hjtn8$k4o$2...@cletus.bright.net>, "Deborah L. Sanyk"
<dsa...@bright.net> writes:
>My thoughts: Covert nighttime operations were probably a lot easier to
>carry out when there was a full moon to provide some illumination. I'm
>assuming you didn't want to be carrying a torch, lantern, or candle, which
>could attract unwanted attention if you were up to something. So there
>still could be some practical advantages to doing certain nighttime things
>when there's a full moon, and thus you might expect to see more of those
>activities taking place then. It doesn't have to be a psychological or
>astrological cause-effect relationship.
And that would explain why modern studies (conducted in urban areas
that are well lit at night) would reveal no correlation at all between the
phases of the moon and any human activity. In earlier times, the
change in lighting conditions at night would have many obvious effects.
J. Scott
> >I believe that the only species that do not menstruate are aquatic
> >mammals, such as sea cows, whales, dolphins, and possibly hippos, and
> >any mammal with a pouch, like a kangaroo or possum.
>
> the cycle from menstruation. AFAIK only humans actually menstruate, as
> in 'bleed' due to poor reabsorbtion of the uterine lining. Yet another
> case of piss poor design, to go with fallen arches and bad backs.
>
think...
Knight of Emita
Pinochet
Kaviyd wrote in message <199804220416...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>For one thing -- there seems to be no time of the lunar month when
>women are more likely to be having her periods than any other. If
>"that time of the month" tended to come at a particular phase of the
>moon, then I might believe that there was some connection.
Well, that's NOT the only connection possible, and there's no reason
different women's biology can't operate differently even though they
are all influenced by one thing...
BTW, Has anyone else noticed that most of the participants in this
thread seem to be male?
Rupert Boleyn
kav...@aol.com (Kaviyd) wrote:
>As for menstrual/fertility cycles, they are far more variable -- but I thought
>I read somewhere that the human cycle is relatively short and therefore
>less extreme in its effects on mating urges than that of various animals
>that go into heat perhaps once a year. For this reason I would suggest
>that the cycle of an elf is no longer than that of a human -- otherwise they
>would have definite mating seasons, which does not seem to be the case.
IFAIK human's have no 'on/off heat' cycle for reasons other than
length of cycle.
BTW cycle time seems to be related to the animals niche, behaviour
patterns, etc. Cats call in the Spring and Autumn, generally. Horses
come into season every 3 weeks, assuming they don't conceive, and with
pigs it is also about 3 weeks, I think.
Rupert Boleyn
dha...@golden.net (Dave Harper) wrote:
>On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 03:10:58 GMT, rbo...@clear.net.nz (Rupert Boleyn)
>wrote:
>>I see no reason why they should mentruate at all, as far as I know
>>only humans do. As to their ovulation cycle, who knows. In my worlds
>>female Elfs can pretty much choose whether to conceive or not, so it's
>>not a relevant question.
>
> Well, they can breed true with humans (and their offspring can
>have offspring), so they're not a separate species, by definition.
>That sort of implies they're similar in other ways related to
>breeding...<shrug>
There's no reason they couldn't be a sub species of the same species
as humans and not menstruate. I beleive that humans do simply because
of an inability to reabsorb the uterine lining between each ovulation.
If that is the case there is no reason why Elfs couldn't do so, after
all they're flasher in just about every other way :)
Dreamsearcher
why does it seem like an extremely immature thing to be wondering about? i
would have to argue with you there; if someone is wondering something like
this then it would probably indicate some level of maturity, ie they
actually care when things can happen, instead of WHAM BAM it's done....i
think it's immature to be trying to cover up such things; knowledge is
power, so to speak, and without knowledge people can't grow at all, and they
remain children
Threshold RPG wrote in message <6hej99$sbp$6...@supernews.com>...
>In article <353a6cbc...@news.iconn.net>, rob...@iconn.net (Rob) wrote:
>>My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
>>female elves? We were just curious. Please do not email replys, post
>>in newsgroup. Thanks
>
>Why were you wondering such things? Does it matter? This seems like an
>extremely immature thing to be wondering about.
>
>-Aristotle@Threshold
>
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> VISIT THRESHOLD ONLINE! High Fantasy Role Playing Game!
>Player run clans, guilds, businesses, legal system, nobility, missile
>combat, detailed religions, rich, detailed roleplaying environment.
>
> http://www.threshold.counseltech.com
> telnet://threshold.counseltech.com:23
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Dreamsearcher
heres another suggestion - use a simple mathematical equation to figure out
how the lifespans of humans and elves are related, and then use that number
to multiply the human female monthly cycle, and there ya go.
ie, say the elven lifespan was a thousand years, and the human a hundred -
the denominator would be 10, so go and multiply the monthly human cycle by
ten, so that would be about every year or so.
Pinochet wrote in message <6he55c$mqe$1...@newsfep3.sprintmail.com>...
>
>Rob wrote in message <353a6cbc...@news.iconn.net>...
>>My group was wondering the other day, what the menstrual cycle is of
>>female elves?
>
>How do you want to answer the question? I don't believe TSR has a
>standard position on this subject(though I could be wrong, as I haven't
>read the CBE), so you're probably better off coming up with something
>on your own..
>
>Here's some suggestions:
>
>As normal(Once a month)
>Once every three/four months
>Once every year(at some seasonal event)
>
>
>
>
>
Pinochet
Dreamsearcher wrote in message <6hneuh$j...@nntp02.primenet.com>...
>heres another suggestion - use a simple mathematical equation to figure out
>how the lifespans of humans and elves are related, and then use that number
>to multiply the human female monthly cycle, and there ya go.
Unfortunately lifespan is not always directly related to menstrual period,
so
this solution, while as good as any other, isn't as scientifically grounded
as
it might appear.
Sean Emmott
Pinochet wrote in message <6hnrhh$gaa$1...@newsfep4.sprintmail.com>...
Could you point me to some of the scientific research on elves? :-)
Cheers,
Sean.
Details of our campaign (including original pictures and
adventures to download) can be found at:
http://www.rmplc.co.uk/eduweb/sites/pscott
Pinochet
Sean Emmott wrote in message ...
>Could you point me to some of the scientific research on elves? :-)
Try Glanti or Alphatia.
Graey
Sean Emmott (seane...@email.msn.com) posted:
>>so this solution, while as good as any other, isn't as scientifically
>>grounded as it might appear.
>>
That was more or less his point. There is no scientific research you can do
to prove or disprove any theories about elven gestation, seeing as how the
elves in question are a creation of fantasy.
- Graey
-----------------------------
| sla...@mediacity.com |
| www.mediacity.com/~slayer |
-----------------------------
Colin Whiteway
I never did say human female's menstrual cycle was controlled by the
moon. I do not, however, feel I am going out on a limb by saying that
the moon does perhaps have some influence on it. For some reason women
menstruate every 28 days, give or take. Perhaps it is simply a
coincidence that our lunar cycle is the same. Please, in the future do
not put words in my mouth...I definately did not say that women's
periods were caused by the moon.
Bandito
>
> 'Nathan <nbur...@prince.carleton.ca> wrote:
> > meh> Uhh...what? The moon does not control human biology.
> > I can field this one - most women cycle on about 28 days, just like the
> > moon does.
>
> Right, but for two things:
> 1) Just because two things have approximately the same period does not
> mean that one causes the other.
> 2) The period of the human menstral cycle varies in length, and isn't
> exactly the same as the period as the lunar cycle, anyway, just
> somewhat close.
Dreamsearcher
ok, nevermind - i think i worded it wrong anyway.......k, seeing as how the
elves live so much longer than us, and the human menstrual period occurs
approximately every month, just say for elves, it'd occur about every year
or so. *shrugs* i dont know why i ever got involved in this thread in the
first place *grin* i mean, why did he want to know the menstrual cycle of
the elves anyway? wanted to know the best time to get her pregnant?
Pinochet wrote in message <6hnrhh$gaa$1...@newsfep4.sprintmail.com>...
>
>Dreamsearcher wrote in message <6hneuh$j...@nntp02.primenet.com>...
>>heres another suggestion - use a simple mathematical equation to figure
out
>>how the lifespans of humans and elves are related, and then use that
number
>>to multiply the human female monthly cycle, and there ya go.
>
>
Dreamsearcher
I read or saw somewhere (on the discovery channel possibly) that the reason
human females menstruate is because they don't go into "heat" as normal
animals do, but they have to have some kind of fertility cycle so the eggs
dont get stale or something like that - i dont remember exactly what it
was - that was a while ago, and who really pays attention to the discovery
channel? *grin*
Rupert Boleyn wrote in message <353ebdee...@news.clear.net.nz>...
Pinochet
Dreamsearcher wrote in message <6hqe78$9...@nntp02.primenet.com>...
>ok, nevermind - i think i worded it wrong anyway.......k, seeing as how the
>elves live so much longer than us, and the human menstrual period occurs
>approximately every month, just say for elves, it'd occur about every year
>or so.
And I pointed out to you, that while such a system might SEEM logical,
there is no real reason for it to be. In fact, it sorta fools you, as you
assume that lifespan has some relation to menstrual period, which
isn't neccessarily true..
> *shrugs* i dont know why i ever got involved in this thread in the
>first place *grin*
It sucked you in, there's no escape.
> i mean, why did he want to know the menstrual cycle of
>the elves anyway? wanted to know the best time to get her pregnant?
Possibly, but maybe something else.
Pinochet
Rache Bartmoss wrote in message <3540CD42...@winternet.com>...
>
> Well...after reading all of the above messages, I have a few
>comments/questions.
>First off as 'rare' as elves are (i.e. only really seen in number at elven
>settlements orlands), there are waaay more half-elves.
Now this is something that isn't neccessarily true.
> Now if a elven female's menstruation
>cycle was only once a year (or more as some people suggest),
Yeah, but the problem I have is with the way some of them try to justify
it..
> and if the most common
>reason half-elves were bred was a result of rape (vs. a planned pregnancy
from
>a actual human/elf couple or marriage), how can a one-time shot in the dark
rape
>matched with a very very infrequent menstrual cycle produce so many
half-elves?
Assuming this is true, which is something I don't particularly agree with,
maybe in
the DL you get the idea, but not the FR, or GH..
Rache Bartmoss
Well...after reading all of the above messages, I have a few
comments/questions.
First off as 'rare' as elves are (i.e. only really seen in number at elven
settlements or
lands), there are waaay more half-elves. Now if a elven female's menstruation
cycle
was only once a year (or more as some people suggest), and if the most common
reason half-elves were bred was a result of rape (vs. a planned pregnancy from
a
actual human/elf couple or marriage), how can a one-time shot in the dark rape
matched with a very very infrequent menstrual cycle produce so many
half-elves?
And if for example a female elven mentrual cycle was only once a year (or
so, see
above), then 'the period' as it where, would sure as hell last more than a
week...maybe
months...a year? Holy PMS Batman!
Food for thought...
Eric T.
Patrick M. Berry
In article <35402D...@thezone.net>, Colin Whiteway <gi...@thezone.net> writes:
> I never did say human female's menstrual cycle was controlled by the
> moon. I do not, however, feel I am going out on a limb by saying that
> the moon does perhaps have some influence on it.
Nonetheless, you are *way* out on that limb. No study has ever demonstrated
a correlation between the phase of the moon and menstruation.
> For some reason women menstruate every 28 days, give or take.
This is like saying that most men are 6 feet tall, give or take. There
is a huge amount of variation. I have known women who were unable to
predict the onset of their next period to within a week.
> Perhaps it is simply a
> coincidence that our lunar cycle is the same.
Women's cycles aren't even the same as *each other*, let alone the phase
of the moon. You'd have an easier time proving a correlation between
the sunspot cycle and airline ticket prices.
Pinochet
Patrick M. Berry wrote in message <6hql52$m5n$1...@aurwww.aur.alcatel.com>...
>In article <35402D...@thezone.net>, Colin Whiteway <gi...@thezone.net>
writes:
>> I never did say human female's menstrual cycle was controlled by the
>> moon. I do not, however, feel I am going out on a limb by saying that
>> the moon does perhaps have some influence on it.
>
>Nonetheless, you are *way* out on that limb.
No, he isn't.
>No study has ever demonstrated
>a correlation between the phase of the moon and menstruation.
Wrong, for while none have ever proven any such correlation, there
are a few that give strong support, there was one that through artificial
illumination of the bedroom through the 14th to 17th nights following
the onset of menstruation resulted in a regularization of the period,
with the period length coming very close to 29.5 day, the natural
synodic month.. This data was taken from Encylopedia Brittanica,
1977, vol 14, page 72, paragraph a .
>> For some reason women menstruate every 28 days, give or take.
>
>This is like saying that most men are 6 feet tall, give or take. There
>is a huge amount of variation. I have known women who were unable to
>predict the onset of their next period to within a week.
With around 3 billion women, wouldn't you expect a few discrepancies?
J. Scott
> >> For some reason women menstruate every 28 days, give or take.
> >
> >This is like saying that most men are 6 feet tall, give or take. There
> >is a huge amount of variation. I have known women who were unable to
> >predict the onset of their next period to within a week.
On the other hand, my girlfriend has had a 31 day cycle
all but one month in the past 10 or so. Furthermore, that one month was
one where she came home from college and was on the move the whole time,
staying with me or her mother and sister. Since women living together
tend to cycle together, that could account for her irregularity. She was
right back to schedule once she returned to school. Why do I know this?
Well, it's a togetherness thing. It was even my suggestion.
Knight of Emita, who's likely said too much, but is posting anyway
clay...@unspamspl.co.za
Colin Whiteway <gi...@thezone.net> wrote:
> I never did say human female's menstrual cycle was controlled by the
> moon. I do not, however, feel I am going out on a limb by saying that
> the moon does perhaps have some influence on it. For some reason women
> menstruate every 28 days, give or take. Perhaps it is simply a
> coincidence that our lunar cycle is the same. Please, in the future do
> not put words in my mouth...I definately did not say that women's
> periods were caused by the moon.
Perhaps the 28 day lunar cycle is caused by human menstruation cycles?
(Well, it's just as likely the other way round...)
Graeme
========================================================
Graeme Adamson of Clan Mackintosh, clay...@spl.co.za
Bryce website: http://www2.spl.co.za/~graemea/
World of Lune: http://www2.spl.co.za/~lune/
A touchstone to determine the actual worth of an
"intellectual" -- find out how he feels about
astrology. - Lazarus Long
========================================================
clay...@unspamspl.co.za
ron poirier <phtl...@uriacc.uri.edu> wrote:
> The moon has a profound effect on the activity cycles of mussels.
>
> It's been documented.
Indirectly, yes. Tides have a profound effect on the activity cycles of
mussels. The gravitational pull of the moon has a profound effect on the
tides.
clay...@unspamspl.co.za
mark edward hardwidge <hard...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> Pinochet <nogra...@spam.sprintmail.me.com> wrote:
> > No, the moon does not control human biology, however it does seem to
> > have an influence, both in female menstrual cycles
>
> No, it doesn't. It is not too amazing to me that there is at
> least one biological function with the same approximate period as at
> least one astronomical phenomenon.
Here's another one: The length of the human life is governed by Halley's
Comet, because the cycle of the comet (76 years) is the same as the average
human lifespan in most western cultures.
Pinochet
clay...@unspamspl.co.za wrote in message <3542cac9...@196.4.160.8>...
>Perhaps the 28 day lunar cycle is caused by human menstruation cycles?
>
>(Well, it's just as likely the other way round...)
Well, not quite, but it is just as proven.
Pinochet
clay...@unspamspl.co.za wrote in message <3545cc13...@196.4.160.8>...
>Here's another one: The length of the human life is governed by Halley's
>Comet, because the cycle of the comet (76 years) is the same as the average
>human lifespan in most western cultures.
Nope, sorry, that one is far less likely, as when you check along the
historical
scale, you get different numbers.
Dreamsearcher
dont you just hate when you get sick and the fever makes you dillusional?
*grin*
Pinochet wrote in message <6hqigk$rjq$1...@newsfep1.sprintmail.com>...
Dreamsearcher
well, if anyone has read any kind of historical fiction (jean auel's Clan of
the Cave Bear, the Gears' First Americans series, etc) you would see that
the women's menstrual cycle is also called the "moon cycle", which obviously
infers that it is related to the moon in some way. go figure
J.J. Emerson
clay...@unspamspl.co.za wrote in message <3545cc13...@196.4.160.8>...
>Here's another one: The length of the human life is governed by Halley's
>Comet, because the cycle of the comet (76 years) is the same as the average
>human lifespan in most western cultures.
>
>Graeme
Har har. Really.
Did you know that cricket calling patterns are governed (entrained) by
when the sun rises and sets? (Actually it is their exposure to light, but
in nature, it's the same.) Some desert rodents have foraging patterns
governed by the phases of the moon. Also, some male birds' gonads grow 100
fold during certain seasons in preparation for mating. All of these are
examples of animal biology that is governed by celestial cycles. The
animals don't think, "Hmmm... Spring's coming around, and I really want to
mate this year, so I'll make my balls grow. Unnnnnhhhh -pop- There, much
better." Many of these responses are governed directly by external stimuli
(celestial in this case). If the animals are held in a laboratory that
precludes exposure to this stimuli, they do not mate/forage/whatever.
If you are wondering why we don't have any data concerning humans, the
reason is simple. No one (except Hitler and those like him) thinks it is
ethical to carry out the laboratory experiments on humans that would provide
the necessary evidence. (Some of them are quite horrendous.) Even if we
look to society for examples that might provide evidence, we are sometimes
stymied here, too. Using adaptationist hypotheses to examine human biology
(in this case, behavior and social interaction) is called Sociobiology, and
has historically been taboo. I don't agree, but those that practice such
have often been criticized. (i.e. Harvard's E.O. Wilson, the man who wrote
"Sociobiology")
Anyway, before making snide comments, take the time examine the
possibilities before summarily dismissing something like that. True, human
menstrual cycles may not be governed by the lunar cycle, but I don't know,
so I don't just dismiss it out of hand. (On a side note, if anyone here
DOES know the whys and wherefores for this topic, let me know.) Before I
can make a conclusion one way or another, I'd like some evidence. However,
it certainly is possible, if not necessarily true in this particular
instance.
J.J. Emerson
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Common sense is nothing more than a deposit
of prejudices laid down by the mind before you
reach eighteen."
A. Einstein
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
J. Scott
> clay...@unspamspl.co.za wrote in message <3545cc13...@196.4.160.8>...
>
> >Here's another one: The length of the human life is governed by Halley's
> >Comet, because the cycle of the comet (76 years) is the same as the average
> >human lifespan in most western cultures.
>
>
> historical
> scale, you get different numbers.
Aahhh... but if you check back, record keeping of Haley's comet is
less and less reliable... Maybe it used to come every 25-30 years during
th Roman Empire... ;-)
Knight of Emita
J. Scott
Not that the people then had any more knowledge than we do on the
subject, just that they were able to notice two cycles that had
approximately the same length. Don't take me wrong, I tend to believe
that the moon has a lot of influence on biological cycles, but Stone Age
cultures' beliefs are hardly proof of it. Besides, Jean Auel did lots of
research, but she had no Neanderthals or early Homo Sapiens (ca. -10,000
years) to ask on the subject either...Not that they would have offered up
any lab reports or anything...
Knight of Emita
Pinochet
J. Scott wrote in message ...
> Aahhh... but if you check back, record keeping of Haley's comet is
>less and less reliable...
Not all the unreliable, one can find plenty in the Chinese records, if
one is allowed to search them.. And 100 years is more than enough
for a quick test..
> Maybe it used to come every 25-30 years >during the Roman Empire... ;-)
Well, then we're going to have to start questioning the laws of
physics. And it would be more like 40-50 in the Roman Era, as
they didn't have so bad an infant/child mortality rate as Medieval
Europe.
J. Scott
Can't take a joke, can you? Did you notice the ;-) ?
Pinochet
J. Scott wrote in message ...
> Can't take a joke, can you?
Yes, I can, but I didn't feel this was funny, got a problem with that.
> Did you notice the ;-) ?
And your point being? Maybe if I used a few choice insults, I might
understand this reply, but as I was polite, I have to ask, what's your
problem with someone taking something you think is a joke seriously?
J. Scott
On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Pinochet wrote:
joke. I would not consider such a post as my original to be worth
debating. I don't want to start a flame war over a joke about Haley's
comment and the general unreliabilty of history books for reconstructing
early astronomical phenomena.
No comment. Seriously, no comment.
Knight of Emita
ron poirier
clay...@unspamspl.co.za wrote:
>
> ron poirier <phtl...@uriacc.uri.edu> wrote:
>
> > The moon has a profound effect on the activity cycles of mussels.
> >
> > It's been documented.
>
> Indirectly, yes. Tides have a profound effect on the activity cycles of
> mussels. The gravitational pull of the moon has a profound effect on the
> tides.
>
> Graeme
Of course you are right about the tides, but I was not talking about
them. I was talking about THE MOON. This fellow took trays of mussels
from the seashore on the East Coast and flew them out to somewhere in the
midwest (Wisconsin?). For a couple of months, the mussels continued to
open and close to the rhythm of the tides on the shores of their East
Coast home, even when they were kept in water the whole time (weird).
There is more to the story, but it was years ago that I saw it and I
forget. Anyhow, the fellow who was researching figured out that the
mussels were getting cues from the moon about when they should open and
close (can't remember how he did this either). This was something I saw
on the Discovery channel some time ago -- it was an entire show about the
moon and it's (mythical and documented) effects on people and the
environment. Cool stuff.
I agree that the moon probably has very little effect on human behavior,
although a number of people I have asked (from policemen to social
workers) have insisted that it does. The thing that makes me doubt is
the lack of anyhard evidence, but then again I have seen no hard evidence
that the moon does NOT effect human behavior.
However, as I mentioned before, I do remember seeing hard evidence that
it certainly DOES effect the bahavior of mussels, and not indirectly in
the sense that it pulls water over them, they get wet, and they open.
- Ron ^*^
Pinochet
J. Scott wrote in message ...
>On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Pinochet wrote:
>> J. Scott wrote in message ...
>> > Can't take a joke, can you?
>>
>> Yes, I can, but I didn't feel this was funny, got a problem with that.
>>
>> > Did you notice the ;-) ?
>>
>>
>> And your point being? Maybe if I used a few choice insults, I might
>> understand this reply, but as I was polite, I have to ask, what's your
>> problem with someone taking something you think is a joke seriously?
> I only meant the wink as a sign that it was only to be taken as a
>joke.
That's nice, but when I want to take things as a Joke, I won't be
basing the decisions entirely off your preferences. And you
still haven't answered why the reply.
>I would not consider such a post as my original to be worth
>debating.
I'm sorry, but your considerations are not what guides other people's
postings.
> I don't want to start a flame war over a joke about Haley's
>comment and the general unreliabilty of history books for reconstructing
>early astronomical phenomena.
Well, then don't, let's not do that.
Jesse
ron poirier <phtl...@uriacc.uri.edu> wrote in article
<3542F4...@uriacc.uri.edu>...
> clay...@unspamspl.co.za wrote:
> >
> > ron poirier <phtl...@uriacc.uri.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > The moon has a profound effect on the activity cycles of mussels.
> > >
> > > It's been documented.
> >
> > Indirectly, yes. Tides have a profound effect on the activity cycles of
> > mussels. The gravitational pull of the moon has a profound effect on
the
> > tides.
> >
> > Graeme
>
> Of course you are right about the tides, but I was not talking about
> them. I was talking about THE MOON. This fellow took trays of mussels
> from the seashore on the East Coast and flew them out to somewhere in the
> midwest (Wisconsin?). For a couple of months, the mussels continued to
> open and close to the rhythm of the tides on the shores of their East
> Coast home, even when they were kept in water the whole time (weird).
<snip>
> However, as I mentioned before, I do remember seeing hard evidence that
> it certainly DOES effect the bahavior of mussels, and not indirectly in
> the sense that it pulls water over them, they get wet, and they open.
>
> - Ron ^*^
Off course the muscles could have esily evolved a biological clock that
cycles at the same speed as the tides. Then thy would be able to open
before the tide has compleatly left or something along those lines.
--
-Jesse Huebsch
"Any technology, sufficiently advanced,
is indistinguishable from magic"
-Arthur C. Clark
Emirikol7
With humans, the cycle runs every 28 days on average. At ovulation (appx 14
days), the expected fertility is MAXIMALLY 20-30%. You could simply put elves
on any cycle you wish and then make the fertility 5-10%.
Jay Hafner B.S. (4/99 add D.C.)--------
Emir...@aol.com, JHa...@nwchiro.edu---
Stop whining about Chiropractic research and find it on MEDLINE:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/
RPG Greyhawk: http://members.aol.com/emirikol7-------
Dreamsearcher
*grin* I can just see it.......her standing there with a neanderthal in
front, and a pad of paper and pen in hand, trying to decipher something
useful among all the grunts.....LOL
J. Scott wrote in message ...
Kerry Amburgy
Well the Elves handbook lists Elven gestation at 2 years.
Graey wrote in message <353f9...@news.mediacity.com>...
>Sean Emmott (seane...@email.msn.com) posted:
>>Pinochet wrote in message <6hnrhh$gaa$1...@newsfep4.sprintmail.com>...
>>>Unfortunately lifespan is not always directly related to menstrual
period,
>>>so this solution, while as good as any other, isn't as scientifically
>>>grounded as it might appear.
>That was more or less his point. There is no scientific research you can
do
>to prove or disprove any theories about elven gestation, seeing as how the
>elves in question are a creation of fantasy.
Kerry Amburgy ka...@skyenet.net
"Have you ever marveled that the symbol of love is also the color of blood?
Just as the rose is seen from more than one eye, so everything has more than
one aspect. Tell me do you see love, or do you see only blood?" --- Captain
Harlock
Arioch
Kerry Amburgy (ka...@skyenet.net) wrote:
: Well the Elves handbook lists Elven gestation at 2 years.
There was an anthropologist who once suggested that Neanderthals had a
gestation period of 12 months.
After his wife got pregnant, he recanted.
: >>Pinochet wrote in message <6hnrhh$gaa$1...@newsfep4.sprintmail.com>...
: >>>Unfortunately lifespan is not always directly related to menstrual
: period,
: >>>so this solution, while as good as any other, isn't as scientifically
: >>>grounded as it might appear.
: >That was more or less his point. There is no scientific research you can
: do
: >to prove or disprove any theories about elven gestation, seeing as how the
: >elves in question are a creation of fantasy.
It's all up to the GM. Besides, modern science leaves a lot of questions
unanswered, too.
Emirikol7
It is thought that most early primitives were not very fertile, even thouth
their menstrual cycle usually runs on a 28 day routine. Most
physio-philosophists believe that this goes back to the light of the moon and
it's effect on such hormones as melatonin and the relationship to the bodies
natural clock, as well as large amounts of exercise (lowers fertility), and
poor diet (lowers fertility).
So, with that in mind, a very fantasy-realistic approach could be that those
creatures with infravision wouldn't be experiencing their cycles as often
(however this fails to explain a goblin's prolific breeding habits).
Another theory is that natural selection simply weeded out the fertile elves by
considering them 'sluts.' Their very culture may not embrace sexuality at all
(much like our puritanical religious societies of modern and past day).
Comments?
Jay Hafner B.S. (4/99 add D.C.)--------
Emir...@aol.com, JHa...@nwchiro.edu---
Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE:
Lee Patten
Emirikol7 wrote:
> <snip>
> So, with that in mind, a very fantasy-realistic approach could be that those
> creatures with infravision wouldn't be experiencing their cycles as often
> (however this fails to explain a goblin's prolific breeding habits).
>
> Another theory is that natural selection simply weeded out the fertile elves by
> considering them 'sluts.' Their very culture may not embrace sexuality at all
> (much like our puritanical religious societies of modern and past day).
>
> Comments?
> Jay Hafner B.S. (4/99 add D.C.)--------
> Emir...@aol.com, JHa...@nwchiro.edu---
>
> Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE:
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/
>
> RPG Greyhawk: http://members.aol.com/emirikol7-------
I wasn't going to reply to this thread, as it seems too intimate a detail for the
DM to have to mess with. None of my characters ever says, "I go to the john," but
we can assume that periodically they do. I wouldn't mess with, "You walk into the
bar and... uh oh... you start to flow.. QUICK!.. what do you do?"
But on the elven thing mentioned above, I agree that, as elves live such a long
time, sex might be considered a chore. We know the repurcusions, overpopulation,
teen-mothers, etc.. Elves may have learned about this centuries before, and sex
slowly but surely worked out of the frolicking...
Lee
ron poirier
Lee Patten wrote:
> But on the elven thing mentioned above, I agree that, as elves live such a long
> time, sex might be considered a chore. We know the repurcusions, overpopulation,
> teen-mothers, etc.. Elves may have learned about this centuries before, and sex
> slowly but surely worked out of the frolicking...
>
> Lee
I don't think that elves would be "turned off" to sexuality at all! I
think that they have such a carefree love of life that they would, if
anything, embrace it far more than humans do! These are people who live
in the forests with creatures like satyrs, dryads, and nymphs, for crying
out loud!
I think that elves have such strong willpower that they COULD control
themselves far better than humans, IF THEY NEEDED TO. But I don't think
that they WOULD, unless they HAD to.
That being said, it could be that the elves' generally frail constitution
has simply given them a very low fertility rate. This may be due to very
long "cycles", low sperm counts, whatever. It is probably nature's way
of keeping the elves from overpopulating. In fact, if the elves'
fertility were low enough, they could conceivably be having almost
continuous sex throughout their communities, just to keep the species
going!
As an aside: has anyone noticed that according to the dwarves' handbook,
dwarves have a lopsided sex ratio of three males to one female? Couple
this with the fact (given in the book) that the typical dwarven family
has only one or two children, and you get a rather stark view of dwarven
population demographics. Consider:
In one generation, there are eight million dwarves. Six million of these
are male, and two million are females. About four million dwarves are
married males or females, and the remaining four million are unlucky
bachelors.
In the following generation, there are an average of 1.5 children born to
every dwarven couple. This would add up to 6 million dwarves, 1.5
million of whom are females, and 4.5 million of whom are males. About 3
million dwarves of this generation are married males or females, and the
remaining 3 million are unlucky male bachelors.
Do you see where this is heading?
Dwarves, as outlined in the Complete Dwarves' Handbook, are slowly
dwindling out of existence, even without the orcs to speed them along.
Hm.
- Ron ^*^
Travis Hall
ron poirier (phtl...@uriacc.uri.edu) wrote:
:
: As an aside: has anyone noticed that according to the dwarves' handbook,
: this with the fact (given in the book) that the typical dwarven family
: has only one or two children, and you get a rather stark view of dwarven
: population demographics. Consider:
One might be better off assuming they mean one or two children at any
given time. Otherwise, as you point out, they really are in trouble fairly
quickly (as generational demographics goes). Perhaps about the time the
family's first child is considered a full adult, the parents are working
on their third child.
--
Why is it that when I do finally get around to creating a .sig file, I
can't think of a single witty thing to say in it?
The Wraith
Violinz
>:
>: As an aside: has anyone noticed that according to the dwarves' handbook,
>: dwarves have a lopsided sex ratio of three males to one female? Couple
>: this with the fact (given in the book) that the typical dwarven family
>: has only one or two children, and you get a rather stark view of dwarven
>: population demographics. Consider:
>
>One might be better off assuming they mean one or two children at any
>given time.
I would tend to agree with Travis about this. Additionally, I might disagree
with the idea in "the book" that dwarves tend to have small families. Please
don't ask me to cite anything at this instance, but I seem to remember more
than one fantasy book that depicts dwarven families with many children.
Ah, here's a citation: weren't Kili and Fili brothers, as well as Oin and
Gloin, and Dori, Ori, and Nori, all from The Hobbit? Those of you who also read
"Urshurak" by the Brothers Hildebrandt and Jerry Nichols might remember the
Dwarven twins Erbin and Evrawk.
More disturbing than demographics, I imagine, would be the effect of the skewed
sex ratio on the various freedoms of Dwarven women. Young Dwarven girls would
likely be under tremendous social and familial pressure to marry early and have
as many children as possible. Adventuring female Dwarves would certainly be
scorned in Dwarven society, and might be subject to certain restrictions of
travel, etc. Though this pressure would be lessened, I'm sure, if Dwarves did
tend toward larger families.
Just some quick thoughts.
Alex Perry
Brett Evill
In article <35555B...@uriacc.uri.edu>, ron poirier
<phtl...@uriacc.uri.edu> wrote:
>As an aside: has anyone noticed that according to the dwarves' handbook,
>dwarves have a lopsided sex ratio of three males to one female?
Interesting. For evolutionary reasons, we expect that in species in which
both sexes have the same number of chromosomes, the sex ratio at birth
will be 1:1 [Dawkins 1989 'The Selfish Gene' 2nd edition p144]. But in
haplodiploid species like bees the optimum sex ratio from the point of
view of the sisters of the newborns is 3:1 in favour of females. [Dawkins
1989 p176.]
Could it be that Dwarves are haplodiploid, with the *males* diploid and
the *females* haploid? It seems a little unlikely, because we wouldn't
expect the females to gestate the young under those circumstances.
But if it *were* true we would expect a high degree of sociality among
dwarves. They would have strong families ties, and tend to live in
co-operative family groups. We might even get eusociality, as in bees,
ants, and termites.
--
Brett Evill
To reply, remove 'spamblocker.' from <b.e...@spamblocker.tyndale.apana.org.au>
Brett Evill
In article <199805021638...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
emir...@aol.com (Emirikol7) wrote:
>Another theory is that natural selection simply weeded out the fertile elves by
>considering them 'sluts.' Their very culture may not embrace sexuality at all
>(much like our puritanical religious societies of modern and past day).
How does that work. Natural selection is a process, not a person who can
consider people to be sluts or not. And being a slut does not, itself and
directly, reduce a female's reproductive fitness. In many species females
raise offspring without male contribution or commitment.
If you want to bring evolution into this, I would suggest that evolution
would select against promiscuous reproduction by females when the marginal
of survival for a single individual is small, and where the cost of
raising a child is large. You will find this material treated by Richard
Dawkins in chapter 9 of 'the Selfish Gene'. The latest edition is Oxford
University Press 1989, ISBN 0-19-286092-2 (pbk).
Kaviyd
Actually I think the sex ratio for Dwarves is supposed to be 2:1 in favor
of males -- and I think I have an idea as to the genetic means by which
it might be accomplished. Let us suppose that dwarves actually have
THREE genders -- male, female, and neuter. To outsiders, there is no
difference between males and neuters other than the inability of "neuters"
to reproduce. They can mate with females of any race, but no offspring
result. Most dwarven adventurers are actually of this gender.
If we suppose that male dwarves have the chromosome combination "XY"
and female dwarves have the chromosome combination "XZ", then four
combinations are possible for their offspring:
XX: "neuter" dwarf who appears male to outsiders. However, they are
considered undesirable as mates to dwarf females. The reason that
evolution has not eliminated them is that they protect and otherwise
provide some sort of benefit to the other two genders.
XY: male dwarf
XZ: female dwarf
YZ: non-viable lethal combination.
The surviving offspring (once the lethal YZ combination is eliminated) are
equally divided among the three genders, and to non-dwarves the ratio
appears to be 2:1 in favor of males.
Kav...@aol.com
(David Knott)
Reading mail from me in a Usenet group does not grant you the
right to send me unsolicited commercial e-mail. All senders of
unsolicited commercial e-mail will be reported to their postmasters
as Usenet abusers.