Advice needed - barbarian magic item (long)
pmar...@gmail.com
advice.
A 20th-level lich wizard has offered to make a magic item for every PC
in my group. He's willing to work with other types of spellcasters if
necessary, although we don't have access to anyone over 15th level as
far as I know - a cleric. There are no druids available to us, nor any
variant or prestige classes.
My knowledge of 3.5 is a bit deeper than the last time I posted, but
I'm sure that almost everyone here still knows the system better than I
do.
This is not a very high-magic campaign, I think. I'm playing a
13th-level barbarian with th following magic:
+1 adamantium greatsword
+3 chainmail shirt
Cloak of Resistance +2
gauntlets of dexterity +4
ring of protection +1
boots of elvenkind
Several of those were made for him by a PC cleric (level 13) or
purchased. We don't capture more than four magic items *total* in a
year of actual playing time - and not high-powered ones. The +3
chainmail shirt is probably the best thing we've found so far.
I don't know if stats matter, but just in case they do:
STR: 19
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 14
CHA: 8
AC: 22
HP: 137
His feats (most of which were selected by the DM when he created the
character for me, since I was new to 3.5):
Power Attack
Cleave
Mounted Combat
Ride-by Attack
Spirited Charge
Improve Critical (greatsword)
Unfortunately he can never keep a mount alive for very long; fireballs,
dragon breath, poison gas...the party generally goes on foot, uses the
Wind Walk spell, or teleports.
The campaign itself is fairly varied. We spend some time underground in
tunnels, but at least as much time (probably more) above ground. The
party are irregular soldiers in an ongoing war against an undead king,
but there are a number of other high-powered enemies, no one of which
predominates the action.
I can't pick out any specific problem that my character has. He's only
died once, a long time ago (and was raised, obviously). No one effect
has been a particular problem for him, since we use Hero's Feast on a
regular basis before combat or danger. He often ends up way down on hit
points and has to be healed, but that's pretty standard for a
front-line barbarian. One weak point in the group is that there's only
one cleric; when he goes down, our other healing is limited.
He does very good damage and hits pretty often. He gets hit very often,
particularly when he rages or is fighting things that use touch AC
only, but of course he has a lot of HP.
The limitations that the DM mentioned were lack of a needed spell
(although the lich will work with others), a needed craft, or raw
materials - but the odds are that he'll be reasonable about this. The
campaign itself does not use the standard 3.5 gods, and is not in a
published game world, but it's pretty standard itself; we stay fairly
close to the published rules.
I can choose from stuff in the DMG. He's willing to consider an item
from another source (probably only Wizards publications for 3.5, I'm
guessing), as long as it's not unbalanced.
So what do you think?
--
Peter Maranci - pmar...@gmail.com
Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
The Diary of An Invisible Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
Shawn I Roske
> I have an unusual opportunity in the campaign I play in, and I need
> advice.
>
> His feats (most of which were selected by the DM when he created the
> character for me, since I was new to 3.5):
> Power Attack
> Cleave
> Mounted Combat
> Ride-by Attack
> Spirited Charge
> Improve Critical (greatsword)
>
> Unfortunately he can never keep a mount alive for very long; fireballs,
> dragon breath, poison gas...the party generally goes on foot, uses the
> Wind Walk spell, or teleports.
>
> So what do you think?
>
Get something that will give you a good mount. Either a mount buff or
an actual magical mount, or something that gives you a charm creature
capacity to tame the next good creature that comes along.
Something that gives you a flexible mount, perhaps some type of
polymorph capacity.
Ophidian
> I have an unusual opportunity in the campaign I play in, and I need
> advice.
>
> A 20th-level lich wizard has offered to make a magic item for every PC
> in my group.
Advice is simple.
There's a catch.
;)
You're welcome.
pmar...@gmail.com
doesn't work that way. There's no doubt that this is a legit offer.
The lich owes us big time. We freed him from mental enslavement by a
far more evil undead king, AND recovered his phylactery from the king
afterwards. He's already used wishes to resurrect several party members
without experience loss.
That makes the campaign sound very Monty Haul, but it really isn't;
this is a unique situation. Which is why I want to make the best of it.
pmar...@gmail.com
(probably the Ivory Goats or the Bronze Griffin). But our cleric could
create those for me already, so it seems a waste to have a CL 20 wizard
make them instead. I also considered a +3 frost brand, but again, that
seems underpowered.
Unfortunately a charm creature or taming effect would be wasted. There
just aren't that many creatures around in the first place. And of
course, at our levels they die awfully quickly. We'd also be likely to
have to abandon them often, since we use Wind Walk a *lot*, and often
end up teleporting out of bad situations in the nick of time. Our
teleporter doesn't have the capacity to take even a single mount in
addition to the party, unfortunately.
I've thought about weapons, but I'm pretty much stuck with a
greatsword, since that's what I have Improved Critical in. Oh, and I
don't know if it matters, but my alignment is chaotic neutral.
--
Peter Maranci - pmara...@gmail.com
Ophidian
> I see what you're saying (and thanks for the thought), but this DM
> doesn't work that way. There's no doubt that this is a legit offer.
Well, I was being a bit of a wise guy.
I posted a similar scenario a while back and NO ONE here was willing
to believe the benefactor wasn't working to the PC's detriment.
(To be fair, my benefactor WAS and IS hiding things, but that's to
the PC's benefit actually...)
> The lich owes us big time. We freed him from mental enslavement by a
> far more evil undead king, AND recovered his phylactery from the king
> afterwards. He's already used wishes to resurrect several party members
> without experience loss.
Is he still an EVIL undead though?
Or does your DM allow for good undead?
Because it's completely within the DM's right to have your friend
trick you into furthering some nefarious goal.
Likely he plans on outliving you...
Loren Pechtel
<pmar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>His feats (most of which were selected by the DM when he created the
>character for me, since I was new to 3.5):
>Power Attack
>Cleave
>Mounted Combat
>Ride-by Attack
>Spirited Charge
>Improve Critical (greatsword)
>
>Unfortunately he can never keep a mount alive for very long; fireballs,
>dragon breath, poison gas...the party generally goes on foot, uses the
>Wind Walk spell, or teleports.
>
>The campaign itself is fairly varied. We spend some time underground in
>tunnels, but at least as much time (probably more) above ground. The
>party are irregular soldiers in an ongoing war against an undead king,
>but there are a number of other high-powered enemies, no one of which
>predominates the action.
>
>I can't pick out any specific problem that my character has. He's only
>died once, a long time ago (and was raised, obviously). No one effect
>has been a particular problem for him, since we use Hero's Feast on a
>regular basis before combat or danger. He often ends up way down on hit
>points and has to be healed, but that's pretty standard for a
>front-line barbarian. One weak point in the group is that there's only
>one cleric; when he goes down, our other healing is limited.
3 of 6 feats are all but wasted if he's not mounted.
pmar...@gmail.com
didn't know the system then, so I was in no position to object. It does
leave me at a disadvantage.
pmar...@gmail.com
sure about good undead. But the way he plays alignment and personality,
there's just no doubt: in this case, the guy is really not out to get
us. We've run into similar situations before (we've rescued quite a few
mind-controlled spellcasters), and we've dealt with powerful
necromancers before, and they've all behaved honorably. I've been in
the game for a couple of years now, and I know the DM well enough to be
sure.
It's quite an opportunity.
Shawn I Roske
Either press for your DM to retrofit your character or get yourself a
Swiss-Army Mount from the Lich. The DM should give you sympathy, since
he screwed your character optimization.
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com says...
> One of the figurines of wonderous power seems like an obvious choice
> (probably the Ivory Goats or the Bronze Griffin). But our cleric could
> create those for me already, so it seems a waste to have a CL 20 wizard
> make them instead. I also considered a +3 frost brand, but again, that
> seems underpowered.
I think a key question is: how much money is the lich willing to spend
on your item?
--
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com
the amount might be lower than if I ask for a specific item.
I'm going through the DMG, picking out items that require at least CL
15 to make, and that my barbarian can use; that's a start, anyway.
Some sort of magic resistance item would be awfully tempting, since
that is (of course) his weakest area. But an obsidian steed would be
awfully hard to beat.
pmar...@gmail.com
guess what it is - sort of - but I'm not entirely sure.
I just thought of another interesting possibility. Since magic items
can be lost, perhaps it would be smarter to go for a Manual of Gainful
Exercise +5. That would give me a STR of 24, or 35 when raging and
buffed. Awfully tempting.
Paul Colquhoun
Your Barbarian can actually read, can he? Otherwise this may not be as
useful as you first imagine.
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
Jasin Zujovic
replying to in your own posts, so the discussion is easier to follow.
For example, someone who missed my post wouldn't know what the question
was to which you answer "I don't know."
In article <1143425261.5...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
pmar...@gmail.com says...
> I don't know. And my gut instinct is that if I ask the DM in advance,
> the amount might be lower than if I ask for a specific item.
>
> I'm going through the DMG, picking out items that require at least CL
> 15 to make, and that my barbarian can use; that's a start, anyway.
>
> Some sort of magic resistance item would be awfully tempting, since
> that is (of course) his weakest area.
Well, at CL 15th, you could get a cloak of resistance +5, but that's not
really a fun item at all. Useful, but not fun.
But something like a badass sword would be fun! And if you ask for too
much, it should be easy to downgrade your order by taking of an plus or
three.
You could go anywhere from +2 (one step up from your current sword, at
8,000 gp) to a +5 holy shocking flaming spell storing monstrosity
(adjust specific abilities to taste, obviously), costing 200,000 gp...
depending on how open-handed you can expect the lich to be.
> But an obsidian steed would be awfully hard to beat.
Note that it's just as easy to "kill" (it'll just revert to statue form,
but it'll be unavailable for a week) as a normal heavy warhorse, and
that it might do naught things if you're good...
How about some sort of barding that includes a sort of permanent shield
other effect, linking you and your horse?
By the guidelines, that would cost some 18,000 gp on top of the regular
armour cost for the barding (spell level 2 x caster level 3 x continuous
2000 x secondary effect 1.5) but the DM might well cut you some slack,
especially since he chose your mounted combat feats (which are hardly
optimal for a mid- to high-level barbarian).
The horse will still have crap saves, so it will still go down to
fingers of death and stuff, and this is a great way to take heaps of
damage from area effects (take your own damage, take half of the horse's
damage!), so it's not really an optimal suggestion in itself... but it
might be fun to try, if you want to see whether you can make a mounted
barbarian work, contrary to popular wisdom. :)
--
Jasin Zujovic
Jasin Zujovic
postm...@andor.dropbear.id.au says...
> | I'm sure he won't go for a retrofit. As for a Swiss-Army Mount, I can
> | guess what it is - sort of - but I'm not entirely sure.
> |
> | I just thought of another interesting possibility. Since magic items
> | can be lost, perhaps it would be smarter to go for a Manual of Gainful
> | Exercise +5. That would give me a STR of 24, or 35 when raging and
> | buffed. Awfully tempting.
>
> Your Barbarian can actually read, can he? Otherwise this may not be as
> useful as you first imagine.
If he gets his hands on a book worth 137,500 gp, you can be he'll spend
those two skill points to learn to read at first opportunity. :)
--
Jasin Zujovic
Justisaur
pmar...@gmail.com wrote:
> One of the figurines of wonderous power seems like an obvious choice
> (probably the Ivory Goats or the Bronze Griffin). But our cleric could
> create those for me already, so it seems a waste to have a CL 20 wizard
> make them instead. I also considered a +3 frost brand, but again, that
> seems underpowered.
>
How about a custom item that casts phantom steed for you every day at
say 14th lv. That's something a cleric couldn't do, and it provides a
pretty nice mount, and if it dies, oh well, you have another one the
next day.
Call it "phantom riding boots". Market price 15,120 (rounding up to
the nearest usual ammount like they do in the DMG would probably yeild
16,000).
- Justisaur
Decaying Atheist
"Paul Colquhoun" <postm...@andor.dropbear.id.au> wrote in message
news:slrne2evq1.m...@andor.dropbear.id.au...
Who needs to read when you have
The Picture Manual of Gainful Exercise +5 (Barbarian Edition)
This handy dandy manual will increase your physical skill. Wait! There
is a lot more.
In this edition you will find:
745 Crudely drawn stick figures depicting your favor Barbarian
Chieftain going through the motions.
415 Cave paintings depicting your enemies quaking in their boots at
your improved muscle mass.
1 Strange page of little squiggles the wizard in your party will
call letters, and words.
You can get all of this for the simple fee of 25,000 Gold pieces.
Don't understand this Ad?
Get your friend to read it.
Justisaur
That's actually a rather stupid idea (and item). If the lich can create
it he could just cast the 5 wishes for you to do the same thing,
without taking the extra time and money to make the item (and without
you needing to spend the 2 skill points to learn to read).
- Justisaur
DougL
> +1 adamantium greatsword
> +3 chainmail shirt
> Cloak of Resistance +2
> gauntlets of dexterity +4
> ring of protection +1
> boots of elvenkind
I'm gonna break with everyone else. The heck with the mount. Buy a new
one every week or get leadership and take a cohort you can ride if you
really want one.
For the magic item ask for a Belt of Giant Strength +6 or Amulet of
Health +6.
+6 Strength is +10 to damage on every melee hit if you power attack.
+6 Con is +3 HP/Level and +3 rounds to your rages.
DougL
Decaying Atheist
"DougL" <lamper...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1143483962.1...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Isn't there a combination item somewhere that is both a belt of
strength and health.
Something like the Belt of Might.
Can't remember where I read it about it but it was a Wizard's product.
DougL
> Isn't there a combination item somewhere that is both a belt of
> strength and health.
>
> Something like the Belt of Might.
Probably, it's a routine combination of powers, both apply at once so
it should be +50% to the second power. Call it 90,000GP for +6 to each
or 40,000 for +4 to each.
IIRC there's a published item that adds to all three physical
abilities.
If I were the Lich I'd refuse to make such an item. It's spectacularly
inefficient for someone who isn't slot limited (the PC is not, both
slots are vacant), and hench for the PC an obvious fudge to try to get
arround the limitations inherent in making any SINGLE item for them.
Annoying a lich that way seems like it could be bad.
DougL
pmar...@gmail.com
>How about a custom item that casts phantom steed for you every day at
>say 14th lv.
I quite like that idea, actually. Don't know if the DM will go for it,
though.
pmar...@gmail.com
>Your Barbarian can actually read, can he? Otherwise this may not be as
>useful as you first imagine.
(smacks self on forehead) D'oh!
I might have a couple of unspent skill points...but if not, I won't be
leveling for several more months of play, probably. We don't gain
levels quickly.
This is a good example of why I posted my question here. :D
pmar...@gmail.com
>That's actually a rather stupid idea (and item).
>If the lich can create it he could just cast the
>5 wishes for you to do the same thing,
Well, I said up front that I didn't know the system that well.
It's a good point, but I don't know if the DM is going to be willing to
make that sort of deal - he may stick strictly to the "one item" idea.
I'm the new guy, so I don't want to put myself in a position where I'm
asking for too much.
That said...can wishes impart natural magic resistance? That might be
tempting.
pmar...@gmail.com
>For the magic item ask for a Belt of Giant >Strength +6...
Usually one of the spellcasters can cast a Bull's Strength on me, and
if I recall correctly that doesn't stack with a Belt of Giant Strength,
so the effective gain would only be +2. Our cleric could make a belt
like that, and has (for the fighter), come to think of it.
>+6 Con is +3 HP/Level and +3 rounds to your >rages.
Now THAT'S a good point! At 13th level, it would mean an additional +39
HP, and the rage extension would be great, too. If I don't have the
lich do that, maybe I'll hit up our cleric for a con-enhancing belt; it
would probably only be +4, but that would still be pretty great.
pmar...@gmail.com
>IIRC there's a published item that adds to all three physical
>abilities.
>Annoying a lich that way seems like it could be bad.
Annoying the DM would be even worse. :D
If I come off as greedy, I don't think it will work out well for me.
The other point is that in terms of hit points and damage, I'm already
doing quite well. What sucks for a barbarian is losing effectiveness in
combat. Which is why some sort of magic resistance is the most
interesting possibility.
DougL
> *DougL wrote:
> >For the magic item ask for a Belt of Giant >Strength +6...
>
> Usually one of the spellcasters can cast a Bull's Strength on me, and
> if I recall correctly that doesn't stack with a Belt of Giant Strength,
It doesn't, they're both enhancement. There are AFAIK a grand total of
FOUR bonuses that apply to strength from magic.
Inherent, Size, Enhancement and Moral. You should at least be aware of
all four as possibilities (wishes or manuals for Inherent, permanent
enlarge for size, items or buffs for enhancement, rage or the rage
spell for moral).
> so the effective gain would only be +2. Our cleric could make a belt
> like that, and has (for the fighter), come to think of it.
It saves him a round casting at the start of the battle unless his
buffs are quickened or mass (some of them should be at level 13). But
Level 6+ slots are still nice if he doesn't have to waste them on
quickened buffs.
> >+6 Con is +3 HP/Level and +3 rounds to your >rages.
>
> Now THAT'S a good point! At 13th level, it would mean an additional +39
> HP, and the rage extension would be great, too. If I don't have the
> lich do that, maybe I'll hit up our cleric for a con-enhancing belt; it
> would probably only be +4, but that would still be pretty great.
He can also cast Bear's endurance of course, but having your Str
dispelled is embarasing while having your Con dispelled is fatal.
DougL
Jasin Zujovic
just...@gmail.com says...
Drifting of topic a bit, but I'm currently playing a Knight Phantom.
That's a class from Five Nations (for Eberron), which is something like
an eldritch knight who can cast phantom steed class level times/day (as
a standard action... normal casting time is 10 minutes!).
Now, the class description mentions the Knights Phantom are dragoons,
using phantom steeds to get to where they need to be quickly, then
dismounting, and wading in with sword and spell.
Which is probably the best tactic, considering the steeds utter frailty.
OTOH, considering they're available a bunch of times per day for free,
and their ungodly speed, going for mounted combat might also work...
With Ride-By Attack, charge each round for great damage, ending up some
50+ ft. away from your target (minimum phantom steed speed is 100 ft.!),
hopefully out of harm's way. Of course, eventually, somone will bother
to target the mount and with its crap hp it'll die instantly, but with a
good ride skill, it's not hard to fall on your feet, so the only thing
you lose is the use per day.
It's more efficient to just not bother, really, but just imaginge
yourself charging on a ghostly, smoky, silent horse, and then when the
mount gets hit and disappears in a puff of smoke, rolling to your feet
to continue to fight hand-to-hand...
--
Jasin Zujovic
Donald Tsang
>Drifting of topic a bit, but I'm currently playing a Knight Phantom.
>That's a class from Five Nations (for Eberron), which is something like
>an eldritch knight who can cast phantom steed class level times/day (as
>a standard action... normal casting time is 10 minutes!).
>
>Now, the class description mentions the Knights Phantom are dragoons,
>using phantom steeds to get to where they need to be quickly, then
>dismounting, and wading in with sword and spell.
>
>Which is probably the best tactic, considering the steeds utter frailty.
That's silly. With Mounted Combat, you should be able to avoid at
least one hit on your mount per round (by giving it an effective AC of
Ride Skill + d20)... it's totally worth avoiding a melee hit to yourself,
anyway.
Donald
Jasin Zujovic
lamper...@gmail.com says...
> > >For the magic item ask for a Belt of Giant >Strength +6...
> >
> > Usually one of the spellcasters can cast a Bull's Strength on me, and
> > if I recall correctly that doesn't stack with a Belt of Giant Strength,
>
> It doesn't, they're both enhancement. There are AFAIK a grand total of
> FOUR bonuses that apply to strength from magic.
>
> Inherent, Size, Enhancement and Moral. You should at least be aware of
> all four as possibilities (wishes or manuals for Inherent, permanent
> enlarge for size, items or buffs for enhancement, rage or the rage
> spell for moral).
AFAIK, rage is not morale, it's an unnamed bonus that stacks with
everything. And I can't really think of an effect that grants a morale
bonus to strength.
> > >+6 Con is +3 HP/Level and +3 rounds to your >rages.
> >
> > Now THAT'S a good point! At 13th level, it would mean an additional +39
> > HP, and the rage extension would be great, too. If I don't have the
> > lich do that, maybe I'll hit up our cleric for a con-enhancing belt; it
> > would probably only be +4, but that would still be pretty great.
>
> He can also cast Bear's endurance of course, but having your Str
> dispelled is embarasing while having your Con dispelled is fatal.
Especially for a barbarian... imagine the situation where your bear's
endurance gets dispelled while you're down in your "rage hp" in the one
of two rounds of rage from bear's endurance: lose the hp from bear's
endurance, end rage, lose the hp from rage... go from 10 to -50 without
ever taking a hit! :)
--
Jasin Zujovic
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com says...
Why not? It's in the DMG, but an item that casts a given spell a number
of times per day is hardly exotic.
--
Jasin Zujovic
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com says...
> >Annoying a lich that way seems like it could be bad.
>
> Annoying the DM would be even worse. :D
>
> If I come off as greedy, I don't think it will work out well for me.
Try not to be the first one to make your pick, and see how the first one
does... :)
> The other point is that in terms of hit points and damage, I'm already
> doing quite well. What sucks for a barbarian is losing effectiveness in
> combat. Which is why some sort of magic resistance is the most
> interesting possibility.
Well, there's spell resistance armour, but it seems quite overpriced to
me at higher levels. But a cloak of resistance (save bonus) is
relatively cheap, and a lifesaver. It's not as cool as a +2 shocking
flaming sword or phantom riding boots, but +5 to all saves will probably
save your life more times than anything else you can get for 25,000 gp.
--
Jasin Zujovic
Ophidian
> *DougL wrote:
>
>>IIRC there's a published item that adds to all three physical
>>abilities.
>
> [snip]
>
>>Annoying a lich that way seems like it could be bad.
>
> Annoying the DM would be even worse. :D
>
> If I come off as greedy, I don't think it will work out well for me.
Well, you implied the DM and NPC would both be fair. ;)
But that he won't let you retrofit an inefficient build that he
foisted on you seems unfair to me, but only mildly.
But another of my unneeded words of warning:
In yet another scenario I ran, the PC's each got to request an item
from a seemingly omniscient benefactor. (He wasn't really, he
was cheating, but he was damn close...)
The ones who asked for something simple or noble got something
beyond their expectations.
Those who asked for something greedy or overpowering got their
wording twisted into seriously limitted items.
Still good items, but not at all what they had expected.
DougL
> In article <1143495511.3...@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> lamper...@gmail.com says...
>
> > > >For the magic item ask for a Belt of Giant >Strength +6...
> > >
> > > Usually one of the spellcasters can cast a Bull's Strength on me, and
> > > if I recall correctly that doesn't stack with a Belt of Giant Strength,
> >
> > It doesn't, they're both enhancement. There are AFAIK a grand total of
> > FOUR bonuses that apply to strength from magic.
> >
> > Inherent, Size, Enhancement and Moral. You should at least be aware of
> > all four as possibilities (wishes or manuals for Inherent, permanent
> > enlarge for size, items or buffs for enhancement, rage or the rage
> > spell for moral).
>
> AFAIK, rage is not morale, it's an unnamed bonus that stacks with
> everything. And I can't really think of an effect that grants a morale
> bonus to strength.
The Rage spell specifically states that the bonus it gives to strength
is a morale bonus to strength.
>From the SRD:
"Each affected creature gains a +2 morale bonus to Strength and
Constitution, .... The effect is otherwise identical with a
barbarian's rage except that the subjects aren't fatigued at the
end of the rage."
Would you let this stack with actual Barbarian rage?
There's no question that the spell grants a morale bonus to Str, and no
sane DM would ever let it stack with Bbn rage, hence Bbn rage must be a
morale bonus. :) Logic.
DougL
Justisaur
Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> In article <1143478487....@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> just...@gmail.com says...
>
> > > One of the figurines of wonderous power seems like an obvious choice
> > > (probably the Ivory Goats or the Bronze Griffin). But our cleric could
> > > create those for me already, so it seems a waste to have a CL 20 wizard
> > > make them instead. I also considered a +3 frost brand, but again, that
> > > seems underpowered.
> >
> > How about a custom item that casts phantom steed for you every day at
> > say 14th lv. That's something a cleric couldn't do, and it provides a
> > pretty nice mount, and if it dies, oh well, you have another one the
> > next day.
> >
> > Call it "phantom riding boots". Market price 15,120 (rounding up to
> > the nearest usual ammount like they do in the DMG would probably yeild
> > 16,000).
>
> Drifting of topic a bit, but I'm currently playing a Knight Phantom.
> That's a class from Five Nations (for Eberron), which is something like
> an eldritch knight who can cast phantom steed class level times/day (as
> a standard action... normal casting time is 10 minutes!).
uh ooh! does it say anything about not being able to be ridden by
others? Normally phantom steed you can assign it to be ridden by
someone else.
> Now, the class description mentions the Knights Phantom are dragoons,
> using phantom steeds to get to where they need to be quickly, then
> dismounting, and wading in with sword and spell.
That seems stupid to me. Why jump off your horse? You can still do
most of the ground tricks mounted (there's some feats that give you
stuff you can't do while mounted, usually involving charging. Although
are you considered charging if your mount is?).
> Which is probably the best tactic, considering the steeds utter frailty.
> OTOH, considering they're available a bunch of times per day for free,
> and their ungodly speed, going for mounted combat might also work...
So what, if you have a decent ride, you land on your feet and get on
with business without missing a hitch. Arguably you should have a
lower DC, since the horse just disappears instead of dying and rolling
over on you.
> With Ride-By Attack, charge each round for great damage, ending up some
> 50+ ft. away from your target (minimum phantom steed speed is 100 ft.!),
> hopefully out of harm's way. Of course, eventually, somone will bother
> to target the mount and with its crap hp it'll die instantly, but with a
> good ride skill, it's not hard to fall on your feet, so the only thing
> you lose is the use per day.
>
It doesn't have the greatest of hp, but at 14th it'd be 21. It also
has a very good AC naturally. Better than regular horses, but not sure
if you can put barding on it, so it might come out worse. Also animals
won't attack it, so you don't have to worry about some threats.
Since he has Mounted combat he should be able to keep it from getting
hit most of the time, and area spells are going to be the main issue.
But you have a point. We might want to improve those boots just a bit,
say to 3x/day, and throw in a feather fall ability incase he gets hit
while the mount is in the air. That'd be getting a bit expensive
though.
Wonder if a 'continuous' item might be workable? Boots that put a
phantom steed under you while they are on. So every time it dies
another appears below you the beginning of the next round. It would at
least prevent you from farming out your phantom steeds to other party
members with the 3x per day. With the normal 10 minute casting time
though, that's probably a bit much.
Or as suggested elsewhere in the thread, just burn a feat on
leadership, get a real live nasty mount that can soak up the HP, and
save the item for something else.
- Justisaur
Jasin Zujovic
just...@gmail.com says...
> > > > One of the figurines of wonderous power seems like an obvious choice
> > > > (probably the Ivory Goats or the Bronze Griffin). But our cleric could
> > > > create those for me already, so it seems a waste to have a CL 20 wizard
> > > > make them instead. I also considered a +3 frost brand, but again, that
> > > > seems underpowered.
> > >
> > > How about a custom item that casts phantom steed for you every day at
> > > say 14th lv. That's something a cleric couldn't do, and it provides a
> > > pretty nice mount, and if it dies, oh well, you have another one the
> > > next day.
> > >
> > > Call it "phantom riding boots". Market price 15,120 (rounding up to
> > > the nearest usual ammount like they do in the DMG would probably yeild
> > > 16,000).
> >
> > Drifting of topic a bit, but I'm currently playing a Knight Phantom.
> > That's a class from Five Nations (for Eberron), which is something like
> > an eldritch knight who can cast phantom steed class level times/day (as
> > a standard action... normal casting time is 10 minutes!).
>
> uh ooh! does it say anything about not being able to be ridden by
> others? Normally phantom steed you can assign it to be ridden by
> someone else.
IIRC, that's how the Knight Phantom's steeds work too.
> > Now, the class description mentions the Knights Phantom are dragoons,
> > using phantom steeds to get to where they need to be quickly, then
> > dismounting, and wading in with sword and spell.
>
> That seems stupid to me. Why jump off your horse? You can still do
> most of the ground tricks mounted (there's some feats that give you
> stuff you can't do while mounted, usually involving charging. Although
> are you considered charging if your mount is?).
I don't know, why people did it in the real world? Because they only had
1 or 2 uses per day and they wanted to use the existing spell to travel
back after the battle? Because they only have +4 ride (the minimum for
the class) so when the steed gets killed, they'll take 1d6 damage from
the fall and end up prone in front of someone waving a big pointed
stick?
> > With Ride-By Attack, charge each round for great damage, ending up some
> > 50+ ft. away from your target (minimum phantom steed speed is 100 ft.!),
> > hopefully out of harm's way. Of course, eventually, somone will bother
> > to target the mount and with its crap hp it'll die instantly, but with a
> > good ride skill, it's not hard to fall on your feet, so the only thing
> > you lose is the use per day.
>
> It doesn't have the greatest of hp, but at 14th it'd be 21.
As I've said, utter frailty. I mean, a 14th-level commoner with Con 11
has 35 hp! At 14th level, 21 is almost guaranteed to go in a single hit.
> It also has a very good AC naturally.
18 is hardly "very good". It's better than a regular horse, sure, but 18
is "get hit half the time" at, say, 5th level, and it's "get hit all the
time" at 14th.
> Since he has Mounted combat he should be able to keep it from getting
> hit most of the time,
But once per round only. At 14th level, people should have no trouble at
all hitting AC 18 with their second attack...
> Wonder if a 'continuous' item might be workable? Boots that put a
> phantom steed under you while they are on.
You know, that's a very interesting idea...
> Or as suggested elsewhere in the thread, just burn a feat on
> leadership, get a real live nasty mount that can soak up the HP, and
> save the item for something else.
That would be the smart thing to do, of course.
--
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com
skill is 17. And the DM is willing to consider alternative weapon types
for specific weapons, such as (and this was his example) a Flame Tongue
mace.
I'd been thinking of a Sun Blade greatsword, but since the lich is
neutral, that's not an option.
One tempting possibility is to have my +3 chainmail upped to +5 and
have Invulnerability added to it - damage resistance of 5/magic stacked
with the 3/- DR from being a barbarian would be pretty handy.
Some other possibilities:
- A greastword form of a Luck Blade or sword of Life Stealing
- Having the chainmail shirt upped to +5 and adding spell resistance
- A ring of three wishes
- A rod of lordly might
...or the aforementioned +5 boosts (by wishes, if the DM agrees) of STR
or CON. Question: can wishes impart spell resistance?
Sigh. Vampiric regeneration would have been *perfect* for this
character - high damage and high HP - but that seems to have been
eliminated from the system. Oh well.
->Peter
--
Peter Maranci - pmar...@gmail.com
Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
The Diary of An Invisible Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
sNOm...@sonic.net
> I have an unusual opportunity in the campaign I play in, and I need
> advice.
> A 20th-level lich wizard has offered to make a magic item for every PC
> in my group. He's willing to work with other types of spellcasters if
> necessary, although we don't have access to anyone over 15th level as
> far as I know - a cleric. There are no druids available to us, nor any
> variant or prestige classes.
> +1 adamantium greatsword
Have you considered boosting the sword? Possibly with an "untraditional"
effect; e.g. "Sword of Iron Will". You mentioned that you've done quite
a ;-) bit of fighting against mind-control effects/foes. If your GM
hasn't taken over or subverted a party-member, it's likely only a matter
of time... And your party just does NOT want to have their Bbn go rage
on THEM when he's playing rearguard!
There's a magic-item from AD&D 1e, dunno if it has made it into 3.x -- a
"Ring of /Vampiric/ Regeneration." If you had it in your sword, it'd be
a mini-Stormbringer. :)
How 'bout a mini-Teleport spell? Point sword, say "Go There" and there
you are! If it just happens to be right behind the enemy spell-caster...
well, I'm sure your Bbn would know what to do... ;-)
> His feats (most of which were selected by the DM when he created the
> character for me, since I was new to 3.5):
> Power Attack
> Cleave
> Mounted Combat
> Ride-by Attack
> Spirited Charge
> Improve Critical (greatsword)
> Unfortunately he can never keep a mount alive for very long; fireballs,
> dragon breath, poison gas...the party generally goes on foot, uses the
> Wind Walk spell, or teleports.
As noted, he's got LOTS of mounted Feats, so those "Phantom Riding Boots"
("Phantom Steed" n times/day + (in order of Munchy Goodness:) Featherfall/
Levitate/Fly) ) -- or similar item (Obsidian Steed, etc) -- would seem
like a Good Choice.
Given that the GM *built* him as a mounted character, he might be inclined
to be more generous if you play to that.
> The campaign itself is fairly varied. We spend some time underground in
> tunnels, but at least as much time (probably more) above ground. The
> party are irregular soldiers in an ongoing war against an undead king,
> but there are a number of other high-powered enemies, no one of which
> predominates the action.
If the overall battle is against an undead, maybe an undead-specific item?
> I can't pick out any specific problem that my character has. He's only
> died once, a long time ago (and was raised, obviously). No one effect
> has been a particular problem for him, since we use Hero's Feast on a
> regular basis before combat or danger. He often ends up way down on hit
> points and has to be healed, but that's pretty standard for a
> front-line barbarian. One weak point in the group is that there's only
> one cleric; when he goes down, our other healing is limited.
The Cleric should probably create last-ditch-defense healing items all-round
for the party, and everyone should carry a potion of "CLW or better," to
revive a down Cleric -- a smart attacker who downed the Cleric *first* then
just kept up a continuous grinding-down attack could TPK you guys. But if
ANYONE in the party could rush over and restore the Cleric, it'd be a lot
tougher. The Cleric himself should have a Cure Critical or some such, that
auto-fires if he goes down...
- Steve S.
pmar...@gmail.com
>Have you considered boosting the sword? Possibly with an "untraditional"
>effect; e.g. "Sword of Iron Will".
I've definitely considered boosting it. +5, with Demon Bane (they're
the most common major enemies), Flaming or Icy Burst, or simply having
it changed into a Frost Brand (the 10-point fire damage absorption is
nice).
I'm not familiar with "Iron Will", so I don't know if the DM would
allow it; probably not.
Incidentally, I already tried my best ploy: I asked the lich for his
own opinion on what would be best. No dice.
>The Cleric should probably create last-ditch-defense healing items all-round
>for the party...
We all carry healing potions, and a staff of Healing has been a MAJOR
help in the campaign. It's almost empty, but we're definitely going to
pick up a new one, top priority.
DougL
> More info: The lich is true neutral (the DM just emailed me). My Ride
> skill is 17. And the DM is willing to consider alternative weapon types
> for specific weapons, such as (and this was his example) a Flame Tongue
> mace.
>
> I'd been thinking of a Sun Blade greatsword, but since the lich is
> neutral, that's not an option.
>
> One tempting possibility is to have my +3 chainmail upped to +5 and
> have Invulnerability added to it - damage resistance of 5/magic stacked
> with the 3/- DR from being a barbarian would be pretty handy.
Do they stack or overlap? I'd assume overlap myself.
DougL
Dragonkat
pmar...@gmail.com wrote:
> More info: The lich is true neutral (the DM just emailed me). My Ride
> skill is 17. And the DM is willing to consider alternative weapon types
> for specific weapons, such as (and this was his example) a Flame Tongue
> mace.
>
A greatsword Luck Blade & Shocking Burst?
-Dragonkat- Insanity is relative
Jim Davies
inscribed:
Phantom steed? Amateur. Go for Summon Monster 9, specifically a
Celestial Roc. OK, so it may not fit in the corridor, but it's got
plenty of hp.
More practically, get a nightmare (which isn't listed in the SM
tables, but I'd guess it's a 7 or 8), a Hellcat (8), celestial dire
lion (6) or whatever. It's all a matter of negotiation.
--
Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim
D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org
pmar...@gmail.com
>More practically, get a nightmare...
Doesn't an obsidian steed have the same stats as a nightmare?
Jasin Zujovic
lamper...@gmail.com says...
Overlap. If the barbarian gets bitten by a dire wolf's, he ignores 5
points of damage, since the bite isn't magic, and he has DR 5/magic. If
he gets bitten by a dragon or hit by a +1 mace, he ignores 3 points,
since he has DR 3/-.
--
Jasin Zujovic
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com says...
> >Have you considered boosting the sword? Possibly with an "untraditional"
> >effect; e.g. "Sword of Iron Will".
>
> I've definitely considered boosting it. +5, with Demon Bane (they're
> the most common major enemies), Flaming or Icy Burst, or simply having
> it changed into a Frost Brand (the 10-point fire damage absorption is
> nice).
If demons are common and/or important enemies, that would seem to be a
strike against elemental enhancements. After all, most outsiders have
heaps o' elemental resistances/immunities.
Holy is a great enhancement: +2d6 damage vs. anything Evil (+2-
equivalent).
--
Jasin Zujovic
DougL
> Holy is a great enhancement: +2d6 damage vs. anything Evil (+2-
> equivalent).
And at best marginal for a greatsword.
+2 enhancement => +2 to hit and damage => +6 to damage due to
powerattack. Even without Improved Crit or anything similar crits add
10% to that so you are +6.6 damage on average assuming you don't due
better by reducing the power attack (always an option and often a good
one). If you have Improved Critical then that's +7.2 damage on average
or better.
+2d6 => +7 damage, crits don't help. So it's just +7 damage on average.
So if you don't have improved crit any your foe is Evil you are up a
whole 0.4 damage per attack assuming that you don't need a +to hit more
than you need the damage!
Holy is only good if you're having trouble bypassing DR/Good, otherwise
two handed weapons go for the big +'s.
DougL
Jim Davies
>*Jim Davies wrote:
>>More practically, get a nightmare...
>
>Doesn't an obsidian steed have the same stats as a nightmare?
'Fraid not. SRD:
Obsidian Steed: This figurine appears to be a small, shapeless lump of
black stone. Only careful inspection reveals that it vaguely resembles
some form of quadruped. On command, the near-formless piece of
obsidian becomes a fantastic mount. Treat it as a heavy warhorse with
the following additional powers usable once per round at will:
overland flight, plane shift, and ethereal jaunt. The steed allows
itself to be ridden, but if the rider is of good alignment, the steed
is 10% likely per use to carry him to the lower planes and then return
to its statuette form. The statuette can be used once per week for one
continuous period of up to 24 hours. Note that when an obsidian steed
becomes ethereal or plane shifts, its rider and his gear follow suit.
Thus, the user can travel to other planes via this means.
Strong conjuration and transmutation; CL 15th; Craft Wondrous Item,
animate objects, etherealness, fly, plane shift; Price 28,500 gp.
Sucks a bit, really, unless you want the planar travel.
sNOm...@sonic.net
> > Have you considered boosting the sword? Possibly with an
> > "untraditional" effect; e.g. "Sword of Iron Will".
> I've definitely considered boosting it. +5, with Demon Bane (they're
> the most common major enemies), Flaming or Icy Burst, or simply having
> it changed into a Frost Brand (the 10-point fire damage absorption is
> nice).
Those are all "traditional" boosts -- i.e. normal weapon-specific ones.
When I've got an offer for "custom work" I always like to go *more*
custom, rather than "regular".
Not necessarily anything uber-potent, just not run-of-the-mill. It is,
sort of, a way of "honoring" the custom worker: "here, I know *you* can
handle something more interesting than what comes off the assembly-line",
without ever being so suck-up as to say it out loud.
Back in AD&D 1e (when only nonhumans could properly "multiclass" (humans
had to switch classes)) I got a "good wish" (i.e. the wish magic was
coming from a "kindly" entity who was *NOT* looking to warp the language
into a "screw the PC over" type of effect). I wished for my human Ranger
to be able to multiclass as a wizard, in the same fashion as an elf could.
It had always been my *intention* to switch classes (as per the normal
rules) into Wizard -- I was just waiting for a few more levels of Ranger
before I did it. Then I got a "custom" offer, and the GM let me know
that "unusual" requests would be favorably received (and that "ordinary"
ones would be a waste of an opportunity -- there might be other Wishes,
but I wasn't likely to get many from a guranteed-friendly wish-granter).
Overall, though, I'm guessing your best bet would be going with an item
along the MountMaker lines; as I previously remarked, your GM appears
(from the Feats he assigned to you) to *like* the idea of your PC having
a mount!
I like the repeating item, like boots -- I wouldn't take a breakable item
like an Obsidian Steed (you've had too many mounts get killed out from
under you!)
--
Steve Saunders
to de-spam me, de-capitalize me
DougL
> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>
> > Holy is a great enhancement: +2d6 damage vs. anything Evil (+2-
> > equivalent).
>
> And at best marginal for a greatsword.
Replying to myself. If Evil outsiders are a common foe then Holy does
in fact beat the crap out of elemental damage. But elemental damage on
a THW is pretty well always a very bad idea. Holy is thus only a mildly
bad idea (as stated it may be a good idea if it lets you bypass DR
reasonably often).
Evil outsider Bane is only +1, adds +2 to the weapons bonus vs. evil
outsiders, and gives +2d6 damage, but doesn't give you the ability to
deal with DR/Good. I tend to think that with the added +2 to attack and
damage and the reduced cost Evil Outsider Bane is better than Holy and
you just have the cleric cast Align Weapon for you.
DougL
pmar...@gmail.com
what I turned out to get the next morning. In the meantime, any
additional suggestions will be much appreciated!
pmar...@gmail.com
>When I've got an offer for "custom work" I always like to go *more*
>custom, rather than "regular".
Now *that's* a damned good point.
The Summon Monster (or whatever, I'd better check the book) item is
awfully tempting, particularly if it would allow me the flexibility to
summon *different* types of mounts depending on my needs - for example,
a flying mount such as a Celestial Roc would be awfully useful in
air/land battles (more than once an enemy has made us run by taking to
the air and nuking us), but not useful in a tunnel. But perhaps there's
some other animal I could summon that *would* be useful (a bulette,
maybe?).
I've been given lots of great ideas here so far; thanks to everyone!
Jasin Zujovic
lamper...@gmail.com says...
Which you well might if you're in the habit of fighting demons.
> otherwise two handed weapons go for the big +'s.
Well, there are really just a few enhancements in the books that are
better than straight pluses, in straight damage dealing against generic
targets.
However, my real choice would be a +1 holy (bane, flaming, shocking...
as can be afforeded) sword and a deal with that 15th-level cleric that
was mentioned which gets me greater magic weapon, for a +4 holy (bane,
flaming, shocking...) sword.
--
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com
>However, my real choice would be a +1 holy (bane, flaming, shocking...
>as can be afforeded) sword and a deal with that 15th-level cleric that
>was mentioned which gets me greater magic weapon, for a +4 holy (bane,
>flaming, shocking...) sword.
Our cleric (who's 13th level, not 15th) could make the sword Holy,
while the lich, being neutral, couldn't - if I understand things
correctly. It does feel a bit odd for a chaotic neutral barbarian to be
wielding a holy sword, but as far as I can tell, the rules give no
penalties for it.
The lich is much more likely to make the sword +5 than our cleric is,
incidentally. The lich has XPs to burn, and almost certainly a lot more
money.
Looking at the rules, it seems that a +5 Evil Outsiders bane sword is
better than a +5 Holy sword, because the EO bane would give an
additional +2 bonus, making it effectively +7 - if I'm correct in my
reading. If not, I'm sure that someone here will tell me that I'm
stupid. ;D
The +2d6 damage is the same in both cases, so the only drawback to bane
is that the bane sword would not have the +2d6 against evil
non-outsiders. Unless Holy also negates evil damage resistance? Is that
the case? In that case, Holy would almost certainly be the way to go,
since I'm pretty sure that most of the demons and devils we face have
10 DR. I'd trade a +2 for ten guaranteed points of extra damage any
day.
(I should explain that I'm not at home, so I don't have the books with
me; I'm getting my system info from the Magic Items section here:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/steven_cooper/dnd/ )
On an unrelated point, our DM has ruled that a maximum of 5 points can
be put into Power Attack. We've been operating under that rule for
several months, and it doesn't seem to have unbalanced things; it does
reduce the chance of a single "hail Mary" sort of massive last-ditch
attack, of course. But enemies are similarly limited.
By the way, someone in the group suggested going for an intelligent
item, but I need to get some more info about that; it didn't seem to be
all that great. I'll write a query to the DM in a minute.
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com says...
> >However, my real choice would be a +1 holy (bane, flaming, shocking...
> >as can be afforeded) sword and a deal with that 15th-level cleric that
> >was mentioned which gets me greater magic weapon, for a +4 holy (bane,
> >flaming, shocking...) sword.
>
> Our cleric (who's 13th level, not 15th) could make the sword Holy,
> while the lich, being neutral, couldn't - if I understand things
> correctly.
They could make it together, just like a wizard with Craft Wand and a
cleric with cure light wounds could make a CLW wand.
> It does feel a bit odd for a chaotic neutral barbarian to be
> wielding a holy sword, but as far as I can tell, the rules give no
> penalties for it.
Right. Only Evil characters suffer from good weapons.
> The lich is much more likely to make the sword +5 than our cleric is,
> incidentally. The lich has XPs to burn, and almost certainly a lot more
> money.
Ah, but a 13th-level cleric can make a +3 (not +4, I miscalculated, even
for 15th) weapon out of a club he picks up on from the ground.
See, the greater magic weapon spell (Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 3) gives a weapon a
+1 enhancement bonus per four caster levels and lasts hours.
So you get the lich to make you a +1 sword with a bunch of enhancements
(depending on how much he's willing to spend and/or how much you're
willing to ask) and have the cleric cast the spell. Now you have a +3
sword with a bunch of enhancements, which would cost heaps of money more
if it were crafted.
For example, a +1 holy evil outsider bane sword is 32,000 gp. With the
GMW on, it's a +3 holy evil outsider bane sword, which normally costs
72,000 gp. In a way, that 4th-level spell gets you 15 hours of 40,000 gp
worth of stuff. Very nice, IMO. (Sure, it's vulnerably to dispels and
such, but nothing's perfect...)
> Looking at the rules, it seems that a +5 Evil Outsiders bane sword is
> better than a +5 Holy sword, because the EO bane would give an
> additional +2 bonus, making it effectively +7 - if I'm correct in my
> reading. If not, I'm sure that someone here will tell me that I'm
> stupid. ;D
>
> The +2d6 damage is the same in both cases, so the only drawback to bane
> is that the bane sword would not have the +2d6 against evil
> non-outsiders. Unless Holy also negates evil damage resistance? Is that
> the case?
Holy goes through DR X/good, yes. It doesn't necessarily go through all
DR any evil creature might have; a demon might have something like DR
5/cold iron and holy wouldn't help there (you'd need cold iron). Or he
might have DR 10/cold iron and good, in which case you'd need both cold
iron and holy.
BTW, there's also a 2nd-level spell that allows you to go through DR
X/good, align weapon. It doesn't give the +2d6 damage, it just makes the
weapon defead DR X/alignment.
> In that case, Holy would almost certainly be the way to go,
> since I'm pretty sure that most of the demons and devils we face have
> 10 DR. I'd trade a +2 for ten guaranteed points of extra damage any
> day.
If DR has been a problem, you might want to get a cold iron sword.
That's a measly +2,000 gp, and some demons have DR that needs cold iron
weapons. For devils (who are vulnerable to silver), you get silversheen
and apply it to your cold iron sword when you need it.
> (I should explain that I'm not at home, so I don't have the books with
> me; I'm getting my system info from the Magic Items section here:
> http://www.users.bigpond.com/steven_cooper/dnd/ )
You have (almost) all the PHB, DMG and MM rules at
hyperlinked for easy reference.
> By the way, someone in the group suggested going for an intelligent
> item, but I need to get some more info about that; it didn't seem to be
> all that great. I'll write a query to the DM in a minute.
IIRC, strictly by the rules it mostly isn't. It can be great if you can
get custom powers instead of those in the DMG lists.
--
Jasin Zujovic
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com says...
> I'll have to make my decision tomorrow night (3/30/06), so I'll post
> what I turned out to get the next morning. In the meantime, any
> additional suggestions will be much appreciated!
Perhaps a flying item? You mention there have been situations where that
might have been useful. Winged boots get you fly for 5 mintes 3/day for
16,000 gp and wings of flying get you fly at will for 54,000 gp.
--
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com
>For example, a +1 holy evil outsider bane sword
You can COMBINE Holy and Bane?!?
I had no idea! But they can't possibly stack, right? That would make
the sword do 6d6+7 (not including STR bonuses, which are considerable
in my case) to any demon or devil. Sounds unbalancing.
>hyperlinked for easy reference.
Thanks, that's very useful!
>If DR has been a problem, you might want to get a cold iron sword.
I'd hate to give up my adamantium blade. We paid a lot for it. Hmm,
perhaps there's some enchantment that would allow me to summon it at
will? I've come close to losing the sword a few times.
pmar...@gmail.com
>Perhaps a flying item? You mention there have been situations where that
>might have been useful.
But that wouldn't allow me to use the three mounted feats I've got. We
do have a couple of spellcasters who can cast fly. And come to think of
it, I'm sure our cleric (working with one of the wizards) could make
boots of flying.
I've already been told (by the player of the cleric) not to waste my
reward on something that he, the cleric, can make. Thanks for the
suggestion, though!
Hmm. Maybe a natural ability to fly? But so far there's no sign that
the lich is willing to use a wish in that way, even if a wish could
grant such an ability (I don't know). Still, "The Flying Barbarian" has
an amusing ring to it. :D
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com says...
> >For example, a +1 holy evil outsider bane sword
>
> You can COMBINE Holy and Bane?!?
:)
> I had no idea! But they can't possibly stack, right?
:) :) :)
> That would make
> the sword do 6d6+7 (not including STR bonuses, which are considerable
> in my case) to any demon or devil. Sounds unbalancing.
Eh. It's nice, but not at all unbalancing, IME.
Holy is +2d6 vs. most of the things heroes fight (anything Evil), but as
was mentioned earlier it's not out of line compared to what you can do
with straight pluses instead, and two-handed Power Attack.
Bane totally kicks ass, but only against its target type. If you fight a
lot of that type, well, you kick ass. Otherwise, it's utterly useless.
So it's balance depends heavily on the DM's style, but overall, I'd say
it's pretty balanced.
And assuming they're both balanced, stacking them doesn't break
anything. You pay for both, after all, and due to the exponential
pricing, the price of holy bane is much more than the price of holy and
the price of bane.
> >If DR has been a problem, you might want to get a cold iron sword.
>
> I'd hate to give up my adamantium blade. We paid a lot for it. Hmm,
> perhaps there's some enchantment that would allow me to summon it at
> will? I've come close to losing the sword a few times.
Couldn't you just keep it stowed?
If you want it hidden/secure, you could get a glove of storing (lets you
store an item and recall it with a snap of the fingers), but it's
probably a bit expensive if you're going to use it just as storage
space.
--
Jasin Zujovic
Mouse
<pmar...@gmail.com> raised a finger to the sky and proclaimed:
>*Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>>For example, a +1 holy evil outsider bane sword
>
>You can COMBINE Holy and Bane?!?
Yup
--
Either way, I hate you Count Chocula, if I didn't already.
- Drifter Bob, rec.games.frp.dnd
DougL
> *Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> >For example, a +1 holy evil outsider bane sword
>
> You can COMBINE Holy and Bane?!?
By the Book, yes. In practice I see no problem. As I pointed out
before, Holy isn't that good an enchantment, you're basically
duplicating an align weapon at substantial expense. The Holy especially
is crap unless you have an easier time getting fourth level GMW's out
of your cleric than 2nd level align weapons (GMW is much longer
duration, so this is actually plausible).
> I had no idea! But they can't possibly stack, right? That would make
> the sword do 6d6+7 (not including STR bonuses, which are considerable
> in my case) to any demon or devil. Sounds unbalancing.
6d6+3 only, 2d6 for greatword, +1 for the bonus, +2 for the bonus vs.
evil outsiders, +2d6 vs. evil outsiders, +2d6 vs. evil foes. If a level
13 Cleric casts GMW then that makes it a +3 weapon so it does 6d6+5.
And it's crap vs. neutral foes, and plenty of stuff you fight is likely
to be neutral. Bane weapons are MEANT to be nasty vs. their chosen
foes.
Even if I were throwing nothing but demons at a party I wouldn't
consider such a weapon a big problem.
The described sword is +4 equivelent, that's a nasty weapon. It's
(very) specialized to fight demons and devils, that makes it nastier
vs. them. High level characters are supposed to have high level powers.
> >If DR has been a problem, you might want to get a cold iron sword.
>
> I'd hate to give up my adamantium blade. We paid a lot for it. Hmm,
> perhaps there's some enchantment that would allow me to summon it at
> will? I've come close to losing the sword a few times.
Most mid-CR demons are CR/Good, holy or align weapon is enough. And big
pluses and bane will blow through DR at need. AFAIK only the Balor and
Marilath in the entire SRD actually NEED cold iron and good rather than
just good. Fighting lots of Balors and Marilaths?
DougL
DougL
> pmar...@gmail.com wrote:
> > *Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> > >For example, a +1 holy evil outsider bane sword
> >
> > You can COMBINE Holy and Bane?!?
>
> By the Book, yes. In practice I see no problem. As I pointed out
> before, Holy isn't that good an enchantment, you're basically
> duplicating an align weapon at substantial expense. The Holy especially
> is crap unless you have an easier time getting fourth level GMW's out
> of your cleric than 2nd level align weapons (GMW is much longer
> duration, so this is actually plausible).
>
> > I had no idea! But they can't possibly stack, right? That would make
> > the sword do 6d6+7 (not including STR bonuses, which are considerable
> > in my case) to any demon or devil. Sounds unbalancing.
>
> 6d6+3 only, 2d6 for greatword, +1 for the bonus, +2 for the bonus vs.
> evil outsiders, +2d6 vs. evil outsiders, +2d6 vs. evil foes. If a level
> 13 Cleric casts GMW then that makes it a +3 weapon so it does 6d6+5.
Actually thinking about it GMW is useless for the described weapon vs.
Evil Outsiders. The weapon is +3 vs. the chosen foe, and the GMW
provides only a +3 bonus at your level. Bane's two point improvement to
the enhancement bonus is to the weapon's normal enhancement bonus, so
you have +3 twice and it overlaps.
Definitely not unbalanced.
DougL
Donald Tsang
>Actually thinking about it GMW is useless for [a bane] weapon vs.
>Evil Outsiders. The weapon is +3 vs. the chosen foe, and the GMW
>provides only a +3 bonus at your level. Bane's two point improvement to
>the enhancement bonus is to the weapon's normal enhancement bonus, so
>you have +3 twice and it overlaps.
I'd disagree; I'd say GMW replaces the "normal enhancement bonus" if its
bonus is higher; by the "order that's most beneficial" rule, you'd
choose to apply the extra +2 from Bane after that.
Donald
Ophidian
> In article <1143738224.4...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> pmar...@gmail.com says...
>
>>By the way, someone in the group suggested going for an intelligent
>>item, but I need to get some more info about that; it didn't seem to be
>>all that great. I'll write a query to the DM in a minute.
>
> IIRC, strictly by the rules it mostly isn't. It can be great if you can
> get custom powers instead of those in the DMG lists.
My take too.
Intelligent items are for fun, not for power, usually.
pmar...@gmail.com
going away for nearly a month. So I have FOUR WEEKS more to make my
decision!
Which is good, because I hadn't made up my mind. The DM did tell us
that almost anything within the confines of the DMG is possible; the
items that we will receive will likely become "legendary".
So it looks like I have a lot more thinking to do. Thanks so much for
all the ideas so far! I'll keep reading, and commenting, as long as
anyone wants to go on. It's a big help.
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com says...
> How ironic: NO ONE else had made their decision, either. And the DM is
> going away for nearly a month. So I have FOUR WEEKS more to make my
> decision!
Heh.
> Which is good, because I hadn't made up my mind. The DM did tell us
> that almost anything within the confines of the DMG is possible; the
> items that we will receive will likely become "legendary".
Hm. Would that include the item pricing guidelines?
For example, there's no feathered cloak of misdirection (blur always on,
fly 3/day) in the DMG, but there are pricing guidelines in the DMG that
would put it at about 48,000 gp.
Do you think you could get a custom item like that?
What about the price range? Or was the "anything in the DMG" an
indication of price range...?
--
Jasin Zujovic
pmar...@gmail.com
>Do you think you could get a custom item like that?
Probably. The DM said that pretty much anything other in the DMG than
an artifact or relic was possible, within the class, alignment, and
skill restrictions that were already mentioned. Money seems to be no
object.
He did say that for specific weapons, while we can probably change the
*type* of weapon - make a Luck Blade out of a Greatsword instead of a
shortsword, for example - we can't change or add to the *abilities* of
that specific weapon. So a Luck Blade could be a greatsword, but it
couldn't be better than a +2 (since it's defined as a +2 weapon in the
DMG).
sNOm...@sonic.net
> The Summon Monster (or whatever, I'd better check the book) item is
> awfully tempting, particularly if it would allow me the flexibility to
> summon *different* types of mounts depending on my needs
I *believe* the weakness of the Summon Monster spell is that it summons
a *random* monster (from the level-based list). It'd really suck to
summon a non-flyer when you needed a flyer, for example...
Still, "Summon *Kind(s)* of (Mount'able) Monster" seems not beyond the
scope of a 20th-level caster... ;-) Remember: more custom, not less.
One caveat, though: I believe that sufficiently-different kinds of
mounts *may* need different Ride-skills... Caveat Emptor! But, you
may be willing to buy up those skills, particularly if the GM would
let you have such a cool item. :)
sNOm...@sonic.net
> Looking at the rules, it seems that a +5 Evil Outsiders bane sword is
> better than a +5 Holy sword, because the EO bane would give an
> additional +2 bonus, making it effectively +7 - if I'm correct in my
> reading. If not, I'm sure that someone here will tell me that I'm
> stupid. ;D
Here's another thought... Spell Storing.
IIRC, it's only good (in "standard version") for one use of the stored
spell, but AFAIK that can be *any* spell, Divine or Arcane, up to 3rd
level.
Know you're going up against a White Dragon? "Gimme a Fireball"
Undead? "Cure Serious". Then the spellcaster studies/prays/etc to
fill the expended slot with whatever THEY want.
Ask the GM how many iterations of Spell Storing you can get... I'd
probably allow "up to the base plus'es on the sword" (i.e. 3 spells
on a +3 sword).
sNOm...@sonic.net
> How ironic: NO ONE else had made their decision, either. And the DM is
> going away for nearly a month. So I have FOUR WEEKS more to make my
> decision!
> Which is good, because I hadn't made up my mind. The DM did tell us
> that almost anything within the confines of the DMG is possible; the
> items that we will receive will likely become "legendary".
So, that's kinda a hint to Think Big, IMHO.
Evidently not Artifact/Relic big, but at least
"Top of the Standard-Magic-Item-Tables Big".
Donald Tsang
>Looking at the rules, it seems that a +5 Evil Outsiders bane sword is
>better than a +5 Holy sword, because the EO bane would give an
>additional +2 bonus, making it effectively +7 - if I'm correct in my
>reading.
For that matter, a +5 Evil Outsider Bane sword costs the same as a
+4 Holy sword...
Donald
pmar...@gmail.com
>Here's another thought... Spell Storing.
Another very tempting idea! A question, though:
Would using the spell(s) require some sort of activation feat, such as
"Use Magic Device"? Remember, I'm playing an illiterate barbarian.
Also, one concern is that this would leave the barb dependent on the
good graces of the spellcasters. Not that that's a huge issue...but it
could be someday, I suppose. And a lot of our combats are unexpected,
so we wouldn't necessarily know what to prep.
Having said all that...it's a tempting idea, and there are some
standard protection spells that would be useful in almost any
situation. Definitely something to put on the list of possibilities.
pmar...@gmail.com
>One caveat, though: I believe that sufficiently-different kinds of
>mounts *may* need different Ride-skills...
I don't have the PH with me, but we've gone over this point a few times
in the game recently, so I'm sure: under 3.5 Ride covers a very wide
variety of animals.
>I *believe* the weakness of the Summon Monster spell is that it summons
>a *random* monster (from the level-based list).
Not sure about that (although you can definitely choose to summon from
a lower list), but the problem is that the lists are so damned
restrictive! For many of them there isn't even a CN creature available,
and those that are are usually slaads. Somehow I don't see slaadi as
good mounts. :D
Summon is definitely out. It would be easier to have one of the
spellcasters cast me a mount spell of some kind.
pmar...@gmail.com
>So, that's kinda a hint to Think Big, IMHO.
Absolutely. I realized tonight that I could definitely max out a sword
or armor. The only drawback would be the time it would take for the
lich to create it; as it stands, he's going to be enchanting stuff for
two or three YEARS for us. Good thing he's a lich. :D
So here's my new thinking. I'm inclined to go for the sword, because
what barbarian wouldn't go for a big-ass sword? :D That would mean
taking the current +1 greatsword and making it:
+5
Bane, Evil Outsiders (because we fight them a lot)
Defending (because it's always nice to have flexibility)
Holy isn't an option because it turns out that our cleric isn't good -
and neither is the lich. Go figure. :D
That leaves three more points of special abilities. In order of
likelihood that I'll want them, I'd take:
Ghost Touch - we run into a fair number of ghosts, wraiths, spectres,
etc. They're not terribly dangerous, but level and characteristic
drains suck. Nullifying that 50% chance of missing would be good. And
it only takes 1 point, leaving 2.
Now what? The elemental enhancements don't suck, but they're not all
that good, either. The "burst" ones do have the additional crit effect,
which makes the Improved Crit feat more useful, but I'm still only
going to have a crit-threat 20% of the time.
Keen doesn't stack with Improved Crit, I already have Cleave and don't
want Mighty Cleave, the spellcasters always put Haste on us so Speed
would be wasted...is Wounding good? It doesn't seem all that
impressive.
Or I could take the 2-3 points and see what I could get in the way of
spell effects (or something). I haven't been able to find rules that
allow for that, though. Perhaps I could duplicate some sort of
vamppiric regeneration effect. Or, I don't know, make the sword cast
cure spells on me. I'm surprised that there isn't a system in the book
for duplicating specific spell effects within permanent objects as
continual effects. I'll have to see if the DM has some sort of system
he uses for that sort of thing, I guess.
sNOm...@sonic.net
> *Steve Saunders wrote:
> >Here's another thought... Spell Storing.
> Another very tempting idea! A question, though:
> Would using the spell(s) require some sort of activation feat, such as
> "Use Magic Device"? Remember, I'm playing an illiterate barbarian.
See:
http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/home.html
Nifty. There are others, too; Google for srd + 3.5 + d20 and you should
get LOTS of hits...
http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/magicItemsAW.html
and do a document-search for "spell storing" (1st instance will be as an
entry in a table; 2nd is the description):
"... Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature
takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell
on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires..."
sNOm...@sonic.net
> *Steve Saunders wrote:
> > So, that's kinda a hint to Think Big, IMHO.
> So here's my new thinking. I'm inclined to go for the sword, because
> what barbarian wouldn't go for a big-ass sword? :D
I'd still argue for the Mount item.
Errr... uber-item. Something that would let you have an appropriate
mount for virtually any circumstance, creating a new one out of magic
if the current one gets wasted.
Point to the Feats, note how much they've been wasted, ask for OOC
help figuring out what IC'ly would work best... etc.
<SNIP> sword options...
> That leaves three more points of special abilities. In order of
> likelihood that I'll want them, I'd take:
> Ghost Touch - we run into a fair number of ghosts, wraiths, spectres,
> etc. They're not terribly dangerous, but level and characteristic
> drains suck. Nullifying that 50% chance of missing would be good.
Yeah, I was thinking of that; or "Etherealness" (as per the Armor).
> And it only takes 1 point, leaving 2.
> Now what? The elemental enhancements don't suck, but they're not all
> that good, either. The "burst" ones do have the additional crit effect,
> which makes the Improved Crit feat more useful, but I'm still only
> going to have a crit-threat 20% of the time.
> Or I could take the 2-3 points and see what I could get in the way of
> spell effects (or something).
Spell Storing? ;-)
pmar...@gmail.com
>I'd still argue for the Mount item.
I've seesawed back and forth on this. One problem is that fairly often
we're in situations where even if I had a mount, I couldn't use it.
Lately about 60-70% of our combats have been underground in smallish
tunnels or in enclosed spaces.
It was different a year ago. Then, the percentages were basically
reversed; most of our combat was outdoors. And a year from now, the
numbers will almost certainly be different again, although I can't
predict how.
If I go for broke on what will probably be my only shot at a major item
and find it's basically not very useful, I'll feel stupid. Still,
wasting all those mounted feats is hard to take, too.
So right now, I'm thinking of doing something like this to the
adamantium greatsword:
+5
Bane, Evil Outsiders (1 pt)
Defending (1 pt)
Ghost Touch (1 pt)
Casts Phantom Steed at CL 14, 3/day (?)
That's assuming that the Phantom Steed effect is A) something the DM
will allow, and B) going to occupy two of the ten points that the sword
can be enchanted. If the cost is 3 points, I'll drop Ghost Touch. If
the cost is only 1 point (improbable), I'll pick up Flaming, probably.
In any case, that would make the greatsword a very useful weapon in a
wide variety of circumstances, and Phantom Steed would give it a bit
more of a Horse Barbarian flavor. Plus at CL 14, the steed could fly at
a speed of 240 and would be available for 14 hours per cast; a very
useful item indeed.
(I wonder if the sword could summon three Phantom Steeds
simultaneously, for the use of other party members? Probably not - if I
were DMing, I'd say no.)
If the DM nixes the steed completely, I'll include Ghost Touch and
either Flaming Burst or Wounding. Which would be more useful? 1 point
of CON doesn't seem like a big deal at the level we're at. And although
Flaming Burst is only better than Flaming in the event of a critical,
one thing I like about it is that the critical effect even works on
creatures that aren't normally affected by crits - thereby leveraging
my Improved Critical feat even more.
What do you think?
Justisaur
> If the DM nixes the steed completely, I'll include Ghost Touch and
> either Flaming Burst or Wounding. Which would be more useful? 1 point
> of CON doesn't seem like a big deal at the level we're at. And although
> Flaming Burst is only better than Flaming in the event of a critical,
> one thing I like about it is that the critical effect even works on
> creatures that aren't normally affected by crits - thereby leveraging
> my Improved Critical feat even more.
>
> What do you think?
>
No contest - Wounding. 2 hits does 2 con. At 13th level vs cr 13
creatures you'll be facing have between 13 to 26 hd. So you've done
with 2 hits 13 to 26 damage, or 6.5-13 damage a hit more. This will
continue to go up proportionally when you are at level 20: 10-20 damage
a hit. The tough "bosses" where you need to do more damage, are likely
to have more HD as well, and therefore this will do more to them.
Compare this to a sedate d6 for the flaming part at 3.5 a hit, plus d10
on a crit, which is 5.5, but only a crit. With a threat range of 17-20
you will crit on anything you can hit with a 17 or less 1/5th of the
time, so that comes out to 1.1 (or less if harder to hit) for a total
of 4.6 damage on average, and this never increases over the time you've
got the weapon.
The other concern is what type of creatures you are facing. If you are
facing constructs/undead/plants a lot wounding isn't going to do
anything for you. And anything even mildly fire resistant isn't going
to take the damage from flaming burst. My recolection is that you were
facing a lot of evil outsiders. Most of those tend to be fire
resistant or immune.
- Justisaur
Peter
>No contest - Wounding. [snip]
THANK YOU! That is *exactly* what I needed to realize. And thanks for
putting it so clearly.
>If you are facing constructs/undead/plants...
Sigh. Unfortunately undead and constructs are the second and third most
common opponents we face. But Evil Outsiders are definitely the most
common; usually, enemy mages call them up against us. If not, they use
undead and constructs.
Still, Wounding would be effective against the mages themselves, of
course. So it sounds as if that's the way to go. Unfortunately the DM
seems to be away from email, possibly until late April, so I won't be
able to find out whether Phantom Steed is possible until then.
Jim Davies
>Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away, pmar...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The Summon Monster (or whatever, I'd better check the book) item is
>> awfully tempting, particularly if it would allow me the flexibility to
>> summon *different* types of mounts depending on my needs
>
>I *believe* the weakness of the Summon Monster spell is that it summons
>a *random* monster (from the level-based list). It'd really suck to
>summon a non-flyer when you needed a flyer, for example...
Nope. SRD:
"You choose which kind of creature to summon, and you can change that
choice each time you cast the spell."
So an item that is restricted to summon *only* a celestial Roc is
cheaper than a generic SM9 item. After all, said Roc is unlikely to be
a match in utility for some of the other options such as elder
elemental, barbed devil or hezrou, purely because of their
versatility.
--
Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim
D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org
Jim Davies
inscribed:
>*Steve Saunders wrote:
>>I'd still argue for the Mount item.
>
>So right now, I'm thinking of doing something like this to the
>adamantium greatsword:
>
>+5
>Bane, Evil Outsiders (1 pt)
>Defending (1 pt)
>Ghost Touch (1 pt)
>Casts Phantom Steed at CL 14, 3/day (?)
>...either Flaming Burst or Wounding.
>What do you think?
Flaming and so on are crap on a 2H weapon: it's only +3.5 damage,
which is barely better than you get from +1 and PA. Unless you meet a
lot of white dragons and frost giants, forget it.
Wounding is good against the right things, useless against thw wrong
things.
Try Throwing and Returning (unless you have a good bow already). It
should surprise the enemy no end when you hurl a bloody great sword at
them. Good for taking down swoopers or the enemy caster. Range is poor
(10' increment) but not crippling.
Peter
>So an item that is restricted to summon *only* a celestial Roc is
>cheaper than a generic SM9 item.
But is a Celestial Roc likely to work well with a chaotic neutral
barbarian? I realize that this may be a meaningless question,
system-wise, but sometimes I worry about alignment issues.
Plus a Celestial Roc is so damned BIG...I don't know. The Phantom Steed
somehow seems more appealing, more appropriate for a barbarian who is
the last of his tribe.
Peter
>Try Throwing and Returning (unless you have a good bow already).
Oddly enough that was one of the first things I considered. I wanted to
work out some way that I wouldn't lose the damned sword, since it's
going to become so ridiculously valuable. I hoped to be able to summon
the sword to me whenever I needed it, but Throwing/Returning obviously
doesn't do that. There doesn't seem to be any way in the standard rules
to make it always return to me from any distance.
In fact...would Returning even work if you hadn't just thrown the
sword? Say I'd dropped it, for example; it looks like Returning
wouldn't help with that. The need to throw the sword in combat should
be pretty rare in any case. And if I get the Phantom Steed, the sheer
mobility plus the Spirited Charge feat would be a far more devastating
combination.
Still, it IS an interesting idea. I have to admit, I'm a bit
disappointed that the standard system doesn't offer more variability in
magic items.
Jasin Zujovic
j...@aaargh.NoBleedinSpam.org says...
> >>I'd still argue for the Mount item.
> >
> >So right now, I'm thinking of doing something like this to the
> >adamantium greatsword:
> >
> >+5
> >Bane, Evil Outsiders (1 pt)
> >Defending (1 pt)
> >Ghost Touch (1 pt)
> >Casts Phantom Steed at CL 14, 3/day (?)
> >
> >...either Flaming Burst or Wounding.
> >
> >What do you think?
>
> Flaming and so on are crap on a 2H weapon: it's only +3.5 damage,
> which is barely better than you get from +1 and PA.
Well, once you hit +5, flaming starts to look more appealing, since
another +1 isn't available anymore.
> Unless you meet a lot of white dragons and frost giants, forget it.
He did mention he meets a lot of demons, though, which would advise
against flaming, as outsiders tend to be immune or resistant to pretty
much all energy.
> Wounding is good against the right things, useless against thw wrong
> things.
>
> Try Throwing and Returning (unless you have a good bow already). It
> should surprise the enemy no end when you hurl a bloody great sword at
> them. Good for taking down swoopers or the enemy caster. Range is poor
> (10' increment) but not crippling.
Well, if money's no object, that's a good call.
Otherwise, I don't think it's worth it. A +2-equivalent price increase
for the possibility of one ranged attack per round, with a 10'
increment... eh. If he's up to 40 ft. away, you can charge him even in
full plate. If he's further than that, that's at least -8 to attack, and
greatsword wielder will already have a significantly crappier ranged
attack to begin with. So you get a single attack at something like -10
(compared to your normal attack) for a +2-equivalent. You're probably
better of just rushing them until you come within melee range.
Sure, against flying creatures, that's not an option, but for those, I'd
much rather get boots of flying.
--
Jasin Zujovic
Peter
borrowed his DMG, and hasn't returned it yet - but from what he said, I
suspect that he may not go for the Phantom Steed effect.
That leaves me with +5, Defending, and Evil Outsider bane; there are
three points left to spend. Or, of course, I could punt the whole sword
idea and go for something completely different. But I'd rather not do
that.
If my guess is right, I need to figure out what to do with those three
points. The problem is there there just isn't that much worth putting
into the sword! Speed is a possibility, I guess, but since we usually
have Haste on us it would be redundant in all but surprise situations.
Still, I may not have much of a choice. It does seem surprising that
the options for magic would be so limited.
At a guess, he may allow me to incorporate special abilities for armor
into the weapon, although most of those wouldn't really work. It's also
possible that magic from some other sorts of magic items could be
enchanted in the sword; I don't know.
Perhaps Spell Resistance 15? Although I don't know how useful that
would be at our level, and I suppose there might also be problems when
I need healing.
Greater Fire Resistance might also be a possibility; we get fireballed
pretty often, of course. And since a Flame Tongue absorbs 10 points of
fire damage per round, at least I'll have an example in the book to
show him.
As for a mount...maybe one of the spellcasters can cast a Mount for me
once in a while, or something. It does seem that as far as the mounted
feats go, I may be out of luck.
Patrick Baldwin
<SNIP>
>Perhaps Spell Resistance 15? Although I don't know how useful that
>would be at our level, and I suppose there might also be problems when
>I need healing.
Probably not worth it, most stuff that you care about
being able to resist is going to blow through that
spell resistance like it's not even there.
>Greater Fire Resistance might also be a possibility; we get fireballed
>pretty often, of course. And since a Flame Tongue absorbs 10 points of
>fire damage per round, at least I'll have an example in the book to
>show him.
Not burning is almost always good.
>As for a mount...maybe one of the spellcasters can cast a Mount for me
>once in a while, or something. It does seem that as far as the mounted
>feats go, I may be out of luck.
That's pretty weak- he gave you the feats, slightly
gimping your character, and he's not willing to work
you to fix it?
I mean really, it's not like Phantom Steed is the
Path to Supreme Power or anything, it just lets you
actually use some of your character's abilities.
And it's cool.
~P.
Ophidian
> That leaves me with +5, Defending, and Evil Outsider bane; there are
> three points left to spend.
Why'd you drop Holy?
Jim Davies
>*Jim Davies wrote:
>>So an item that is restricted to summon *only* a celestial Roc is
>>cheaper than a generic SM9 item.
>[snippage]
>But is a Celestial Roc likely to work well with a chaotic neutral
>barbarian? I realize that this may be a meaningless question,
>system-wise, but sometimes I worry about alignment issues.
It's defined as CG, so it is at least chaotic. Anarchic Roc? I rather
wonder how the writers came up with the alignment combinations for
summoned monsters. Why is a boar or ape evil whereas a bear or badger
is good? And why are there no L/C beasties? I suppose it's really a
matter of publication timing, in that the SM tables all derive from
the MM1 rather than all the other books, so it's necessarily limited,.
>Plus a Celestial Roc is so damned BIG...I don't know. The Phantom Steed
>somehow seems more appealing, more appropriate for a barbarian who is
>the last of his tribe.
Nightmare is the most obvious solution, though it's not in the table.
Not sure why it isn't. Go for fiendish dire tiger instead. It's fast,
tough and amazingly vicious, but not ridiculously big. AC is crap,
though.
Donald Tsang
It's not worth the +2? You could look at "Blessed" (+1) from
Book of Exalted Deeds... basically "always-on effects of the Bless
Weapon spell [PHB: Pal1]". Not core, but reasonable IMO.
Donald
Jim Davies
>> Try Throwing and Returning
>
>Well, if money's no object, that's a good call.
>
>Otherwise, I don't think it's worth it. A +2-equivalent price increase
>for the possibility of one ranged attack per round, with a 10'
>increment... eh.
True, but it is way kewl.
> If he's up to 40 ft. away, you can charge him even in
>full plate.
Being a barbarian, presumably he'll charge 60-80 ft, though that just
makes your point more valid.
>If he's further than that, that's at least -8 to attack, and
>greatsword wielder will already have a significantly crappier ranged
>attack to begin with. So you get a single attack at something like -10
>(compared to your normal attack) for a +2-equivalent. You're probably
>better of just rushing them until you come within melee range.
But with this you can move, throw it at the [soft but obstructed
target] and charge next round at their melee brutes or cannon fodder.
Of course if they charge you in the interim you look a bit silly.
>Sure, against flying creatures, that's not an option, but for those, I'd
>much rather get boots of flying.
Yep. But AFAICT, this campaign is very light on magic items so it's
just the one mega thing. A sword that bestows flight when held - now
that would be handy.
Jim Davies
>That leaves me with +5, Defending, and Evil Outsider bane; there are
>three points left to spend. Or, of course, I could punt the whole sword
>idea and go for something completely different. But I'd rather not do
>that.
>
>At a guess, he may allow me to incorporate special abilities for armor
>into the weapon, although most of those wouldn't really work. It's also
>possible that magic from some other sorts of magic items could be
>enchanted in the sword; I don't know.
I thought you were considering Ghost Touch.
Undead Bane might be good. No reason you can't have two (or more)
banes.
How's your Reflex save? I infer +10. Arrow Deflection is +2 and lets
you do the Jedi schtick, but requires a DC20 save so it's by no means
automatic and you can probably soak the odd arrow. Kewl but weak and
probably overpriced at +2 even on a shield.
Costwise, the difference between +9 and +10 is 38000gp. So you can in
theory get 38000gp of miscellaneous enchantment into it. It's an
additional power (+50%) and not the right slot (x2) so that's about
12600gp in real money. For that, you can get Boots of Levitation,
Boots of Speed or a Gauntlet of Rust, implying that you can imbue the
sword with said power for that (tripled) cost.
If we compare to an unslotted item, that's 25000gp. Luckstone, broom
of flying (have to sit on the sword?), assorted ioun stones.
If you get only +8 in normal bonuses (+5, def, bane, GT) that leaves
72000 = 24000gp. This gives you a +4 buff (16K) or a minor cloak of
displacement (24K).. Unslotted, for 48K we don't get a whole lot more.
Or you can mix and match, though the most expensive thing doubles in
cost (I assume that means just the spells, not the weaponness). I
think one would have to work this out from scratch, though.
At a guess, we can have something like a +5 sword with:
* Defender (+1)
* Bane (+1)
* Ghost Touch (+1)
* command-activated fly twice/day at 5th level (360x3x5x2x2=21600)
* a +2 buff (4000x2=8000),
* a +5 Intimidate competence bonus (2500x2=5000)
* use-activated Shatter 3 times/day at 3rd level (2x3x400x3x2= 14400)
* command-activated True Strike* once/day at 1st level
(1x1x360x1x2=720)
* command-activated Light once/day at 1st level (0.5x1x360x1x2=360)
* command-activated Guidance (6 charges) at 1st level
(0.5x1x25x6x2=300)
Double the 21600 for being the main enchantment, and we are left with
20 gp, which you can leave as a tip.
Or is that abusive rules rape? Or simply wrong?
Peter
>Why'd you drop Holy?
Because the lich is true neutral and our cleric is lawful neutral. I
suppose I could try to find a good cleric who could make the weapon
holy. Would that be worth it?
Hmm..Holy + Evil Outsiders Bane + +5...would mean that the greatsword
would do 6d6+7 (plus an additional 10, effectively, since most of the
evil outsiders seem to have 10DR/good) +9 for strength bonus when fully
buffed and raging...for an average 40 points of damage per blow. Not
including the effects of power attack.
Impressive! And the Holy would work against the evil undead we fight,
too. I'll have to see if I can find a good NPC cleric to make it Holy
before the lich starts work on it. Thanks for the idea!
Peter
>You could look at "Blessed" (+1) from Book of Exalted Deeds...
Also an interesting option; I'd never read that spell before (I haven't
played a cleric in 3.5). Of course, the only thing that that's better
about Blessed than Holy is the auto-crit-backup effect, but while that
might not be worth enchanting into the sword, it would quite possibly
be worth getting cast by our paladin.
If I'm reading the spell right, the crit effect WOULD stack with the
Improved Critical feat, since the only listed exclusion is "any weapon
that already has a magical effect related to critical hits". And a feat
isn't magic. Nice!
sNOm...@sonic.net
> > As for a mount...maybe one of the spellcasters can cast a Mount for me
> > once in a while, or something. It does seem that as far as the mounted
> > feats go, I may be out of luck.
>
> That's pretty weak- he gave you the feats, slightly
> gimping your character, and he's not willing to work
> you to fix it?
>
> I mean really, it's not like Phantom Steed is the
> Path to Supreme Power or anything, it just lets you
> actually use some of your character's abilities.
>
> And it's cool.
Yeah. You might point out to him that *he* built you the mounted Bbn,
and you're just trying to play to that...
Most feats are *supposed* to be useful. Particularly *sets* of Feats!
Alternatively, ask if you can get (not from the Lich, just *somewhere*)
a set of "Cavalry Boots of Many Mounts" or whatever you want to call
'em... If you're just looking for standard spell-effects in an item,
you can probably commission it as a "non-uber" item.
Ophidian
> Ophidian <oNpEhMi...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>Peter wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That leaves me with +5, Defending, and Evil Outsider bane; there are
>>>three points left to spend.
>>
>>Why'd you drop Holy?
>
> It's not worth the +2?
Well, if all the effects left are minor or useless, and the +2 is
free, it's certaintly worth it.
Ophidian
> *Ophidian wrote:
>
>>Why'd you drop Holy?
>
> Because the lich is true neutral and our cleric is lawful neutral.
Point.
I'd forgotten.
> I
> suppose I could try to find a good cleric who could make the weapon
> holy. Would that be worth it?
Only if you do that first, and then let the Lich or Cleric go to work.
It's not cost effective otherwise.
Maybe the Lich would let an NPC Cleric assist him though?
> Impressive! And the Holy would work against the evil undead we fight,
> too. I'll have to see if I can find a good NPC cleric to make it Holy
> before the lich starts work on it.
Ah, you're ahead of me. ;)
> Thanks for the idea!
No problem.
Donald Tsang
>*Donald Tsang wrote:
>>You could look at "Blessed" (+1) from Book of Exalted Deeds...
>
>Also an interesting option; I'd never read that spell before (I haven't
>played a cleric in 3.5).
Until Complete Divine, Clerics didn't have access to that spell anyway.
In 3E, the spell was oddly worded, to the point where Paladins might
take that spell in all of their 1st *and 2nd* level spell slots.
>Of course, the only thing that that's better
>about Blessed than Holy is the auto-crit-backup effect
And the fact that it's +1 instead of +2. And you sorta need the
"Good" part to get past the DR of those pesky Evil Outsiders...
>If I'm reading the spell right, the crit effect WOULD stack with the
>Improved Critical feat, since the only listed exclusion is "any weapon
>that already has a magical effect related to critical hits". And a feat
>isn't magic. Nice!
Quite. The 3E "kensai" splatbook class (Weapon Master?) had class-based
enhancements of both threat range and crit multiples. I kinda miss it. :)
Donald
Peter
>Peter <pmara...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Of course, the only thing that that's better
>>about Blessed than Holy is the auto-crit-backup effect
>
>And the fact that it's +1 instead of +2.
I'm confused. Why would +1 EVER be better than +2?
Peter
>Or is that abusive rules rape? Or simply wrong?
If I request that item from the DM, I somehow think I'll be blue-beamed
in minutes. :D
In the last few minutes I've decided that if the DM won't allow some
sort of Phantom Steed - even if it's only one per day - then I'll
probably just go with +5, Holy (assuming I can make that work), Evil
Outsider bane, Defending, and Ghost Touch. That's a highly effective
weapon. It doesn't have anywhere near as much *character* as the
Phantom Steed one, but if that's what he wants, he's the DM.
I can see his point, I suppose. A flying mount could really change the
campaign. Of course, since we're mostly at 12-13th level there are a
number of fly spells available to us, but a flying horse could be
considerably more disrupting.
For example, I could fly up high with a big barrel or two of gravel and
dump them over enemy troops. From several thousand feet up that would
be fairly devastating, although I don't know how the system would
handle it.
He could forestall that by insisting on a CL of lower than 14 for the
Phantom Steed effect, I suppose.
Peter
swords? As I recall, I can choose whether or not it has a permanent
visible glow (right now it doesn't) that sheds as much light as a
torch.
Light can be useful, but I'd be inclined to keep it dark; at our level
light spells (and continual light torches) are cheap, and if the sword
glows, it would make it almost impossible to use it without attracting
attention. We do get some stealth missions, now and again.
It would be cool if the sword could glow in the presence of the
creatures that it's baned against (like Sting in TLoTR), but that
doesn't seem to be an option.