Ravenloft: Staking a vampire according to Van Richten (HELP!)
Kwok Hung IP
I got a problem using Van Richten rule about staking a vampire. It says
in the book that a char. must have 17+ strenght and hit AC -1. I've got
a 7th level fighter with a strength spell on with 18/00 strength. He needs
something like a 10 to steak the creature which is way too easy to
destroy a vampire.
I've tried to modify it but can't come up with some decent rule.
Anybody has an idea?
Cheers...
--
=============================================================================
Jack Kwok Hung Ip | McGill University
ip...@binkley.cs.mcgill.ca | Montreal, Quebec, Canada
=============================================================================
M.R. Zucca
>Hi there.
>
>I got a problem using Van Richten rule about staking a vampire. It says
>in the book that a char. must have 17+ strenght and hit AC -1. I've got
>a 7th level fighter with a strength spell on with 18/00 strength. He needs
>something like a 10 to steak the creature which is way too easy to
>destroy a vampire.
>
>I've tried to modify it but can't come up with some decent rule.
Perhaps the strength must be NATURAL. You can attribute this to the
strangeness of Ravenloft. Also, a Ravenloft Power Check may be in order
(with negatives).
If memory serves, I think that the stake only holds them from moving
(i.e. they look dead but they're just paralyzed). The characters can
think they've killed the vampire but it will just go gaseous and
eventually come back to haunt them. Sounds like good Ravenloft "flavor"
to me. :)
--
*---------------------------------------------------*------------------------*
| Michael Zucca - Rochester Institute Of Technology | "The chief cause of |
| Internet: mrz...@ultb.isc.rit.edu | problems is soulutions"|
*---------------------------------------------------*------------------------*
Jeffrey C. Isherwood
>in the book that a char. must have 17+ strenght and hit AC -1. I've got
>a 7th level fighter with a strength spell on with 18/00 strength. He needs
>something like a 10 to steak the creature which is way too easy to
>destroy a vampire.
>I've tried to modify it but can't come up with some decent rule.
I use a modification that the VAMPIRE'S heart is -1 AC because of size, and
location... I mod the AC to be hit... by the Vampire's DEX... Come on...
You don't think he just stands there do ya? If he is caught `takin a nap'
Then his guardians and protedctive measures weren't good enough (or the party
was skilled/crafty enough) and they deserve the kill.....
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Orion
: I got a problem using Van Richten rule about staking a vampire. It says
: in the book that a char. must have 17+ strenght and hit AC -1. I've got
: a 7th level fighter with a strength spell on with 18/00 strength. He needs
: something like a 10 to steak the creature which is way too easy to
: destroy a vampire.
: I've tried to modify it but can't come up with some decent rule.
: Anybody has an idea?
Your right, it is too easy, but only in terms of game balance. In
real life, a man with an 18/00 Strength, which is stronger than Arnold in
his prime, and the combat ability of a 7th level Fighter, which is really
good, would have a good chance of driving a stake through another
man's chest.
According to my calculations, the above fighter would need a 12 to
stake the vampire. Something that might help a little is to apply
non-proficient penalties. This would raise it to 14, unless they happen
to be proficient with stake.
You might consider lowering the -1 AC to stake by 1 or 2 for every age
category above fledgling (VRGtV pg. 26).
Also, I don't think it would be unreasonable to say that items of
Protection add there bonus to this.
/\
/\/ \ /\ Orion
\ /\ \/ / van...@uidaho.edu
/ \ \ /
/ /\ \/ / "Don't mistake lack
/ \ \ / of talent for genius."
/ /\ \/ \ Type O-Negative
\/ \ /\/
\/ "I recommend... amputation"
Hellraiser II
Kwok Hung IP
Article: 11855 of rec.games.frp.dnd
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From: mrz...@ultb.isc.rit.edu (M.R. Zucca )
Subject: Re: Ravenloft: Staking a vampire according to Van Richten (HELP!)
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In article <2gs2ep$s...@homer.cs.mcgill.ca> ip...@cs.mcgill.ca (Kwok Hung IP) writes:
>>Hi there.
>>
>>I got a problem using Van Richten rule about staking a vampire. It says
>>in the book that a char. must have 17+ strenght and hit AC -1. I've got
>>a 7th level fighter with a strength spell on with 18/00 strength. He needs
>>something like a 10 to steak the creature which is way too easy to
>>destroy a vampire.
>>
>>I've tried to modify it but can't come up with some decent rule.
>
>Perhaps the strength must be NATURAL. You can attribute this to the
>strangeness of Ravenloft. Also, a Ravenloft Power Check may be in order
>(with negatives).
Problem is that he is an ogre (from the humanoid HB, I know, not very
Gothic but he wanted to play one) and as a result he already has
18/something Strength. He's still very strong.
>
>If memory serves, I think that the stake only holds them from moving
>(i.e. they look dead but they're just paralyzed). The characters can
>think they've killed the vampire but it will just go gaseous and
>eventually come back to haunt them. Sounds like good Ravenloft "flavor"
>to me. :)
Yes, the stake holds it paralysed but I don't think he can go gaseous
though. In which case, he might as well be dead.
What bothers me with this rule is that you can kill the undead with a
single hit, no save no nothing. Maybe I should lower down the AC to -5,
no magical strenght and make a ceremony in preparing the stakes (Bless,
soaked in holy water for 24 hrs, etc).
>*---------------------------------------------------*------------------------*
>| Michael Zucca - Rochester Institute Of Technology | "The chief cause of |
>| Internet: mrz...@ultb.isc.rit.edu | problems is soulutions"|
>*---------------------------------------------------*------------------------*
Cheers...
Scooby
>Hi there.
>
>I got a problem using Van Richten rule about staking a vampire. It says
>in the book that a char. must have 17+ strenght and hit AC -1. I've got
>a 7th level fighter with a strength spell on with 18/00 strength. He needs
>something like a 10 to steak the creature which is way too easy to
>destroy a vampire.
>
>I've tried to modify it but can't come up with some decent rule.
>
>Anybody has an idea?
>
I would not base it on AC -1. I would base it on the vapires AC, but make
it a called shot, thus having a -4 penalty to the attack roll. I think what
Van Richtens book was refering to was when you come upon a vampire that
was asleep or in its cofin! Plus you might want to give the vampire some
spells to help him. Stoneskin! Glyph of warding on the inside of his cofin!
Illussion of vampire and the vampire is actually turned around. His feet where
his head should be!
_____ _____ _____ _____ ____ __ __
| ___| ___| _ | _ | __ |\ \ / /
|___ | |___| |_| | |_| | __ > \ /
---|_____|_____|_____|_____|____|--|_|-----
-------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph DuBois jdubo.w...@xerox.com
-----------------------------------My Thoughts Only----------
RAYMOND J. CLEVENGER
>From: ip...@cs.mcgill.ca (Kwok Hung IP)
>Subject: Re: Ravenloft: Staking a vampire according to Van Richten (HELP!)
>In article <2gs2ep$s...@homer.cs.mcgill.ca> ip...@cs.mcgill.ca (Kwok Hung IP) writes:
>What bothers me with this rule is that you can kill the undead with a
>single hit, no save no nothing. Maybe I should lower down the AC to -5,
>no magical strenght and make a ceremony in preparing the stakes (Bless,
>soaked in holy water for 24 hrs, etc).
>Cheers...
I have a question: How is this character going to get close enough to make a
tohit roll and put the stake in there???
Yes, if the Vampyr just stood there and waited this guy could easily kill him,
but why on Earth (or anywhere else) would the Vampyr do that??
Just make it so this guy's hard to get close to. With Vampyrs that isn't too
hard.
--------------------------------
Where there is imagination . . . only the infinate is possible.
rcle...@afit.af.mil
AF Institute of Technology, WPAFB
Kerry Northup
>
>>What bothers me with this rule is that you can kill the undead with a
>>single hit, no save no nothing. Maybe I should lower down the AC to -5,
>>no magical strenght and make a ceremony in preparing the stakes (Bless,
>>soaked in holy water for 24 hrs, etc).
>>Cheers...
>
>I have a question: How is this character going to get close enough to make a
>tohit roll and put the stake in there???
>
>Yes, if the Vampyr just stood there and waited this guy could easily kill him,
>but why on Earth (or anywhere else) would the Vampyr do that??
>
>Just make it so this guy's hard to get close to. With Vampyrs that isn't too
>hard.
Granted, a vampire can make it very challenging for the party to get
close to him, but unless he casts spells or something, eventually, a party
which is good enough will get through his minions and he'll have to take them
on hand to hand. A vampire's essentially a close in combat kind of creature,
after all.
At any rate, to answer the original question, I personally just tossed
the "hit AC -1 with a 17 or better str. and the vampire is staked" rule
as being lame. If, however, you insist on keeping it, there are several
options:
1) Give your vampire a better AC and state that it is the new target
AC, since his chest is certainly no more vulnerable than any other part of
his body (ask the PCs if they'd be willing to accept a lower AC if your
monsters state they're aiming for the chest?).
I believe a "regualar" vampire's AC is 3, or thereabouts. If this is
the case, you could rule that the -1 AC is derived by subtracting four from
the to hit roll (called shot penalty) against the vampires normal armor class.
This would mean that if you gave the vampire an AC of -1 normally, the
party would then need to hit AC -5 in order to stake him.
2) Destroy any and all stakes the party is carrying. Certainly this
is no easy task, but a vampire knows his own weaknesses, and stakes are only
made out of wood, after all. An especially evil variant would be to have
a vampire (who is designed to be a naaassssttttyyyy master thief in some ways)
have a pick pocket percentage. Here, unless the PCs are carrying their
stakes in their hands, which is doubtful if they're fighting only minions,
then the vampire could pick their backpacks or whatever, and when he shows up
to confront them...*evil grin*
3) The only other thing I can think of is specific the situation
mentioned, in which case only one party member had the str needed to stake.
Here, the vampire could have one nasty minion who kept this particular PC
occupied while he took on the rest. One rather evil suggestion is whichever
undead it is that drains str, as opposed to levels (shadows?).
Hope this helped
Kerry
A workin man
waking him, and has the proper stake to take care of the vampire...
...then I say that he does it..maybe roll a to hit roll, and if he
misses ac 10 he misses the heart...c'mon, how hard is it to place
a stake in a sleeping person's heart??
Now the only problems would be...
a) getting past any "guardians" to reach the vampires coffin
b) getting to the coffin and opening it w/o waking the vampire,
I would definatly give the vampire a chance at waking up,
espicially in ravenloft.
c) having the proper stake for the job...i.e.-a charcoal stake for
an elvish vampire, a stalagtite/mite for a dwarven vampire,..etc.
now after staking the vampire, the charter(s) have to know how to destroy
said vampire. Again, every type of vampire(elvish, dwarven..etc.) has a
different way of killing them. As long as the stake is not removed the
vampire is helpless, but unless the proper procedures are taken, as soon as
the stake is removed the vampire is awake, functioning and extremely
pissed off.
Brizzt
Will Gore
writes:
> 2) Destroy any and all stakes the party is carrying. Certainly this
> is no easy task, but a vampire knows his own weaknesses, and stakes are
only
> made out of wood, after all. An especially evil variant would be to
have
> a vampire (who is designed to be a naaassssttttyyyy master thief in
some ways)
> have a pick pocket percentage. Here, unless the PCs are carrying their
Warp wood, of course.... sigh... if only you had a vampire/cleric...
*chuckle*.
-Will Gore
Jeff Gostin
writes:
> 2) Destroy any and all stakes the party is carrying. Certainly this
> is no easy task, but a vampire knows his own weaknesses, and stakes are only
> made out of wood, after all. An especially evil variant would be to have
> a vampire (who is designed to be a naaassssttttyyyy master thief in some
> ways)
Fireball always works well, too. Normal wood gets a lousy save vs.
magic fire. Either that, or firetrap. Delay blast fireball?? The list goes
on and on. Warp wood, if he could secure the help of a druid, might be
useful also.
According to Van Richten's, there is a ritual a vampire can do
nightly to make himself stake-proof.
--Jeff
...From a tiny little node called Eternal!
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Jeff Gostin
bri...@pegasus.rutgers.edu (A workin man) writes:
> Now the only problems would be...
> a) getting past any "guardians" to reach the vampires coffin
> b) getting to the coffin and opening it w/o waking the vampire,
> I would definatly give the vampire a chance at waking up,
> espicially in ravenloft.
> c) having the proper stake for the job...i.e.-a charcoal stake for
> an elvish vampire, a stalagtite/mite for a dwarven vampire,..etc.
To play devils advocate... Why not just cast Wizard Lock on your
coffin? That way, only the vamp could open it without destroying it. If
any tampering would occur (IE: smashing it in), I'd make the vamp save vs.
paralyzation, with bonuses for the following:
+1 jarring motions (pushing, lifting, etc)
+1 collision motions (hammering, axing, etc)
+1 noise (from all of the above)
I would let the vamp save PER ACTION. In other words, 12 hits with an
axe would grant him 12 saves. If THAT doesn't wake him up, nothing will.
Allan Longley
>What bothers me with this rule is that you can kill the undead with a
>single hit, no save no nothing. Maybe I should lower down the AC to -5,
>no magical strenght and make a ceremony in preparing the stakes (Bless,
>soaked in holy water for 24 hrs, etc).
You could use the "rule" from vampire mythology that to "stake" a vampire
the stake must pass completely through the vampire into the dirt of its
grave. This makes staking a vampire in combat impossible.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan Longley, University of Waterloo, Department of Chemical Engineering
e-mail: alon...@cape.uwaterloo.ca
voice: (519) 885-1211 Vampires are COOL ;-)
home: (519) 746-1498
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeffrey C. Isherwood
>: I got a problem using Van Richten rule about staking a vampire. It says
>: in the book that a char. must have 17+ strenght and hit AC -1. I've got
>: a 7th level fighter with a strength spell on with 18/00 strength. He needs
>: something like a 10 to steak the creature which is way too easy to
>: destroy a vampire.
>: I've tried to modify it but can't come up with some decent rule.
>van...@crow.csrv.uidaho.edu (Orion) writes:
> Your right, it is too easy, but only in terms of game balance. In
>real life, a man with an 18/00 Strength, which is stronger than Arnold in
>his prime, and the combat ability of a 7th level Fighter, which is really
>good, would have a good chance of driving a stake through another
>man's chest.
> According to my calculations, the above fighter would need a 12 to
>stake the vampire. Something that might help a little is to apply
>non-proficient penalties. This would raise it to 14, unless they happen
>to be proficient with stake.
> You might consider lowering the -1 AC to stake by 1 or 2 for every age
>category above fledgling (VRGtV pg. 26).
> Also, I don't think it would be unreasonable to say that items of
>Protection add there bonus to this.
I agree with Orion on the modification of 1 or 2 per age group. It makes
sense, the older they are, the tougher they get...
I stated in an earlier response (that appears not to have made it to the
net) that I always give the Vampire a dex mod for the AC as well. Unless
he is standing there... not trying to avoid getting stabbed, or is caught
sleeping... in which case he deserves to get stabbed!!
Orion brought up one thing I forgot... Proficiency... The wielder does suffer
a non-proficient penalty (although I seem to remember that dagger or short
sword will qualify as proficient enough)...
I also use the protective devices as well so:
VAMPIRE HEART
AC -1
Vamp's dex -3
+2 Ring
Total AC -6
Fighter non proficient -2
THAC0 (from above) 13
Fighter's strength (from above 18/00) +3 to hit
To Hit Vampire's Heart: 18
Fair?
Jeff
I'm not familliar with this Von Richten stuff, but I get the
impression that vampires are supposed to be SERIOUS bad asses, yes?
And your assertion that they are easy to kill in this way is based on
the vampire being asleep and helpless, yes? Well, it seems like it
should be easy if you catch him napping. The trick is to catch him!
I would think that a vampire knows how vulnerable he is while sleeping,
and thus would make it VERY difficult to get to him. I had a campaign
based on a Vampire a few years ago, and it way so tough because the PCs
couldn't find his bedroom! Once they got a clue as to where it was, they
had to hack through guardians, survive/discover/disarm some very nasty
traps, and eventually had to either go gaseous, use some sort of tunnelling
spell, or hack through a very thick wall to get him. Once they got in,
they had worked plenty hard already, and The Count was twitching on a
post in no time. Just my 2 cents.
Jeff Swarm
posi...@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
Hi there.
>>
>>I got a problem using Van Richten rule about staking a vampire. It says
>>in the book that a char. must have 17+ strenght and hit AC -1. I've got
>>a 7th level fighter with a strength spell on with 18/00 strength. He needs
>>something like a 10 to steak the creature which is way too easy to
>>destroy a vampire.
>>
I'd make it a little more difficult. Let's see... 17 Str and -1 to hit
are a good start. Then add in the -4 for a called shot (I'd call
stake to the heart area a definite called shot), then give the vampire a
saving throw vs death (ie the stake may be perfectly aimed, but
deflected by the ribcage, vampire may twist out of the way, etc.).
If you don't control something like that then I could see every
fighter with a 17 Str specializing in stake and killing everything
(or at least creatures with a humaniod anatomy) with only a -1
penalty.
-Steve
Aardy R. DeVarque
:> 2) [...] An especially evil variant would be to have
:> a vampire (who is designed to be a naaassssttttyyyy master thief in some ways)
:> have a pick pocket percentage. Here, unless the PCs are carrying their
:> stakes in their hands, which is doubtful if they're fighting only minions,
:> then the vampire could pick their backpacks or whatever, and when he shows up
:> to confront them...*evil grin*
I have two words for you: KENDER VAMPIRE!!! :) (check the Ravenloft MC for all
of you who don't believe me :)
:> Kerry
Aardy R. DeVarque
Feudalism: Serf & Turf
Flarn
channel, so I cannot help but answer your question.
To avoid a vampire from easily being destroyed by strong characters with wooden
stakes, you might want to modify the rule by saying the vampire must be
immobilized for that rule to work, even though the Guide To Vampires says on
page 48 that no to-hit roll is required for an immobilized vampire. However,
changing the rule might be a cop-out.
A clever vampire (and most should be) would take steps to prevent an enemy from
exploiting its weaknesses, and may have spells, magic items, or a simple
medallion to protect its heart from being impaled by a piece of wood.
A piece of steel would be more than sufficient to block a stake and any and all
magical protection 'pluses' should count (forgive the pun). Be creative.
Maybe the vampire is only a simulacrum, while the REAL vampire enjoys the
spectacle and learns their tactics, only to strike at their apparent moment of
victory.
Hope this helps.
Scott
fl...@aol.com