Rod of Resurrection and Liches
Jay Taylor
The cleric in our group had a Rod of Resurrection and touched the lich
with it and the dm ruled the lich dead. I am wanting opinions on this.
I fell that a lich is powerful enough to begin with, but would that rod
have hurt him. It just seem that we beat that lich TOO easy. I was already
rolling for whatever saving throw I needed for the butt whipping we were fixing to get
and then it was over...
Jay
Gleeman
: The other night I was playing in a session where we encounterd a lich.
Did you destroy the phylateracy? If not, you might be in for a
little surprise... >;)
--
Alaric Morgannan - Gleeman (irl: Scott Schimmel)
http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~schimmel/ (under constant construction)
* Ex ignorantia ad sapientium; ex luce ad tenebras *
"Disguised in spite of time-I never bared my emotion; my passion
always strong-I never lost my devotion. But somewhere fate went
wrong." --Dream Theater, "Scarred"
Steven Cox
>
> The other night I was playing in a session where we encounterd a lich.
> The cleric in our group had a Rod of Resurrection and touched the lich
> with it and the dm ruled the lich dead. I am wanting opinions on this.
> I fell that a lich is powerful enough to begin with, but would that rod
> have hurt him. It just seem that we beat that lich TOO easy. I was already
> rolling for whatever saving throw I needed for the butt whipping we were fixing to get
> and then it was over...
>
************
Well, I couldn't find any specific rulings on how Resurrection affects liches,
but there are other types of undead that such spells cause them to be instantly
destroyed. I guess this can be used with respect to liches as well. Otherwise,
just check to see if the lich is within the Resurrection age of the rod; if the
lich is less than 140 years into it's undead state, have the rod return it
to the land of the living. Just imagine the look on the once-lich's face
as it's body becomes alive again!
And on the subject of the above victory being too easy - if your party is of a
high enough level to be facing liches, and the cleric is armed with, at least,
a Rod of Resurrection, your part
moo...@shrsys.hslc.org
A lich who is more than two centrueis old would probably be immune to
a Rod of Ressurection ( too long dead to be brought back ).
If the lich was young, than the rod should have brought him back
to life. Which leaves you with an almost incapacitated, but powerful enemy,
who probably has a Contingency Teleport set up in case something like this
happens and will hate you for ruining his lichdom.
I don't think the resurrection would pull his sould from his
phylactery, so if you killed him he'd just go there and become a lich again.
Although he would loose a level, which woudl make him hate you all more. :)
A special case applies if the lich has been slain before and it's
body is not it's original one and if it is oung enough to be resurrected
( I know, lotsa "ifs". ) In that case the person whose body the lich
is in is resurrected. The Dm could rule he stayes possessed by the lich's
undead mind, or the lich is sent back to the phylactery.
All an all, it just isn't possible, by the rules, for a simple
Rod of Ressurection to just "kill" something as lethally complex as a
Lich.
Mike M.
Steven Cox
>
> The other night I was playing in a session where we encounterd a lich.
> The cleric in our group had a Rod of Resurrection and touched the lich
> with it and the dm ruled the lich dead. I am wanting opinions on this.
> I fell that a lich is powerful enough to begin with, but would that rod
> have hurt him. It just seem that we beat that lich TOO easy. I was already
> rolling for whatever saving throw I needed for the butt whipping we were fixing to get
> and then it was over...
>
> Jay
************
Well, I couldn't find any specific rulings on how Resurrection affects liches,
but there are other types of undead that such spells cause them to be instantly
destroyed. I guess this can be used with respect to liches as well. Otherwise,
just check to see if the lich is within the Resurrection age of the rod; if the
lich is less than 140 years into it's undead state, have the rod return it
to the land of the living. Just imagine the look on the once-lich's face
as it's body becomes alive again!
Personally, I don't mind the ruling of a RoR stopping an undead creature in it's
tracks, but bringing the creature back to life sounds like more fun!
Steven C
Never Trust A Skinny Chef
Jody D. Bowman
: The other night I was playing in a session where we encounterd a lich.
: The cleric in our group had a Rod of Resurrection and touched the lich
: with it and the dm ruled the lich dead. I am wanting opinions on this.
: I fell that a lich is powerful enough to begin with, but would that rod
: have hurt him. It just seem that we beat that lich TOO easy. I was already
: rolling for whatever saving throw I needed for the butt whipping we were fixing to get
: and then it was over...
: Jay
As powerful as a lich is, a Rod of Resurrection isn't exactly a toy, either.
Although I probably wouldn't give the character the insto-death (have him roll
a THAC0, give the lich a magic resistance roll, if he has any, and at least a save
vs. death magic), I would say that the Rod could kill it.
Anyhow, given all the monsters, magical traps, physical traps, offensive
spells, and other goodies you would have had to get through to get within touching
range, if the cleric was in any shape to act as he did, I would think he
probably deserved it.
Jody Bowman
Captain Coredump
jdbo...@major.csl.mtu.edu
Kenn Beane
scription that a raise dead spell will destroy a lich(and a few other
intelligent undead) if it fails a saving throw.
Lawrence R. Mead
: The legends tell that Jay Taylor once wrote:
: : The other night I was playing in a session where we encounterd a lich.
: : The cleric in our group had a Rod of Resurrection and touched the lich
: : with it and the dm ruled the lich dead. I am wanting opinions on this.
: : I fell that a lich is powerful enough to begin with, but would that rod
in Sage Advice a long time (more than a decade) ago. If the lich is more
than 1000 years old (the limit for ressurection for the level of the
rod = 12th [I think]), there is no effect. If under the correct age limit,
then the lich is ressurected and instantly you have a very high-level
angry evil mage facing you. Either way, you are in deep doo-doo! Your
DM gave you a freebie, IMO.
DMGorgon
--
Lawrence R. Mead (lrm...@whale.st.usm.edu) | ESCHEW OBFUSCATION !
Associate Professor of Physics | ESPOUSE ELUCIDATION !
Barbara Haddad
> The other night I was playing in a session where we encounterd a lich.
> The cleric in our group had a Rod of Resurrection and touched the lich
> with it and the dm ruled the lich dead. I am wanting opinions on this.
> I fell that a lich is powerful enough to begin with, but would that rod
> have hurt him. It just seem that we beat that lich TOO easy. I was already
> rolling for whatever saving throw I needed for the butt whipping we were fixi
> and then it was over...
>
I'd have given the lich a saving throw vs the rod & then --if the
lich was eligible to be alive based on # of years dead _&_ made the syst
shock-- I'd have ruled him _living_. :) [one pissed mage tho]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Barbara Haddad - mel...@shakala.com
Shakala BBS (ClanZen Radio Network) Sunnyvale, CA +1-408-734-2289
Steven Cox
>
> Gleeman (schi...@red.seas.upenn.edu) wrote:
> : The legends tell that Jay Taylor once wrote:
> : : The cleric in our group had a Rod of Resurrection and touched the lich
> : : with it and the dm ruled the lich dead. I am wanting opinions on this.
> : : I fell that a lich is powerful enough to begin with, but would that rod
>
> in Sage Advice a long time (more than a decade) ago. If the lich is more
> than 1000 years old (the limit for ressurection for the level of the
> rod = 12th [I think]), there is no effect. If under the correct age limit,
> then the lich is ressurected and instantly you have a very high-level
> angry evil mage facing you. Either way, you are in deep doo-doo! Your
> DM gave you a freebie, IMO.
> DMGorgon
> --
>
> Lawrence R. Mead (lrm...@whale.st.usm.edu) | ESCHEW OBFUSCATION !
> Associate Professor of Physics | ESPOUSE ELUCIDATION !
I agree with this, but the age limit for a Rod of Resurrection is 140 years
by 2nd edition rules (in case you were using 1st edition). The minimum level
necessary to use Resurrection is 14th, and the rod acts at this level. The
spell allows for resurrection at 10 years/level of the caster. So, if the lich
is 140 years or less into it's undead state, you get an upset high-level
and living mage. Otherwise, nothing happens.
Todd Foster
>Jay Taylor <std...@nell.shsu.edu> writes:
The other night I was playing in a session where we encounterd a lich.
The cleric in our group had a Rod of Resurrection and touched the lich
with it and the dm ruled the lich dead. I am wanting opinions on this.
I fell that a lich is powerful enough to begin with, but would that rod
have hurt him. It just seem that we beat that lich TOO easy. I was
already
rolling for whatever saving throw I needed for the butt whipping we
were fixi
and then it was over...
<snip>
Sounds like the DM rewarded the cleric for quick thinking. Sounds good
to me. Several people have mentioned though that instead of dead, you
might have ended up with a very alive very mad magic user.
I'm curious though. When a magic user becomes a lich, is it after he
dies of old age that he continues as a lich, or does he actually DO
something to become a lich? I ask because if it is the second, I would
be very afraid to try this on another lich. If ,however, it is the
first, it would be impossible to EVER accidently bring a lich back to
life. You cannot resurrect something which has died of old age no
matter how recently it died.
So who out there knows how liches are made???
Todd
week...@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
>Sounds like the DM rewarded the cleric for quick thinking. Sounds good
>to me. Several people have mentioned though that instead of dead, you
>might have ended up with a very alive very mad magic user.
> I'm curious though. When a magic user becomes a lich, is it after he
>dies of old age that he continues as a lich, or does he actually DO
>something to become a lich? I ask because if it is the second, I would
>be very afraid to try this on another lich. If ,however, it is the
>first, it would be impossible to EVER accidently bring a lich back to
>life. You cannot resurrect something which has died of old age no
>matter how recently it died.
>
>So who out there knows how liches are made???
>
>Todd
>
a power-crazed mage or priest performs some sort of rite or drinks a potion
(can't remember exactly what). The undead don't die, so they have eternity
to gain tons and tons of power. So, a mage or priest becomes a lich by choice.
Todd W.
>
Berg
: >Jay Taylor <std...@nell.shsu.edu> writes:
: The other night I was playing in a session where we encounterd a lich.
: The cleric in our group had a Rod of Resurrection and touched the lich
: with it and the dm ruled the lich dead. I am wanting opinions on this.
: I fell that a lich is powerful enough to begin with, but would that rod
: have hurt him. It just seem that we beat that lich TOO easy. I was
: already
: rolling for whatever saving throw I needed for the butt whipping we
: were fixi
: and then it was over...
: <snip>
: Sounds like the DM rewarded the cleric for quick thinking. Sounds good
: to me. Several people have mentioned though that instead of dead, you
: might have ended up with a very alive very mad magic user.
: I'm curious though. When a magic user becomes a lich, is it after he
: dies of old age that he continues as a lich, or does he actually DO
: something to become a lich? I ask because if it is the second, I would
: be very afraid to try this on another lich. If ,however, it is the
: first, it would be impossible to EVER accidently bring a lich back to
: life. You cannot resurrect something which has died of old age no
: matter how recently it died.
: So who out there knows how liches are made???
: Todd
It is theoretically possible for a 1st level FIGHTER to become a
lich, but s/he needs a high level mage's help, and the chances of success
are NOT good. The way it's done is by a special form of poison potion.
If the lich is within the maximum time-span of a rod of
resurrection, I'd rule that you now have a pissed off living mage on your
hands (or a relieved 1st level fighter :), but if the mage has been a
lich longer than the maximum time, then no luck.
moo...@shrsys.hslc.org
Offically, the lichdom process has notheing whatsoever to do with
demons/devils, other than it was origionally based on obsercations of
how they handle their souls.
Mike M
East, Nathan Dylan
> The other night I was playing in a session where we encounterd a lich.
> The cleric in our group had a Rod of Resurrection and touched the lich
> with it and the dm ruled the lich dead. I am wanting opinions on this.
> I fell that a lich is powerful enough to begin with, but would that rod
> have hurt him. It just seem that we beat that lich TOO easy. I was already
> rolling for whatever saving throw I needed for the butt whipping we were fixing to get
> and then it was over...
>
> Jay
Due to the strange nature of Liches, I think your DM might have
been in error. The lich is just a lifeforce without a body. The fact that
this lifeforce inhabits a dead body is enough to classify it as an undead,
but the fact is, the lich spell is just a pumped up Magic Jar.
-Nate
Berg
: I always thought of it like this.
: The Rod would destroy the Lich, mainly because of the
: conflict of the soul. I believe the mage bargins with
: some creature of hell (or abyss) to achieve his lichdom.
: If the rod of resurrection is used on the lich, it might follow
: that the soul would be commanded to return to the body,
: but since it is not in the normal afterlife, but held by a demon
: or devil, then the conflict might shatter the soul and destroy
: the lich. Anyway, that is how I would rule.
: modrid
The way you do things, resurrection would always destroy souls.
Since a dead guy, who has been dead 10+ years is almost certainly in the
appropriate afterlife, you run up against the problem of having something
FAR more powerful than a mere archdevil or demon lord holding that soul,
you have a powerful GOD. In most cases, the deity would prefer to hang
onto the soul, so in your campaign, resurrection would never work. :)
Lee Spires
>dies of old age that he continues as a lich, or does he actually DO
>something to become a lich? I ask because if it is the second, I would
>be very afraid to try this on another lich. If ,however, it is the
>first, it would be impossible to EVER accidently bring a lich back to
>life. You cannot resurrect something which has died of old age no
>matter how recently it died.
>
>So who out there knows how liches are made???
>
>Todd
Liches gain their status through a very special procedure, desribed in full in
Van Richten's Guide to the Lich. I don't remember it precisely but it does
a potion that kills the mage performing it. In addition, it is not certain the
the mage will become a lich. If he fails, he's deader that John Cleese's
parrot.
No ressurection.
Lee Spires
On the sixth day God created man
On the seventh day, man returned the favor.
moo...@shrsys.hslc.org
The lich potion doesn't neccesarily kill the mage. It has good
chance of killing him, and does put him into a death-like coma for
several days in any case. It can cause other penalties whether or
not it workd, I remember blindness, hair falling out, being reduced to
0th level forever, etc.
Mike M
Andrew Monteiro
: In article <3mfi2r$t...@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>, Todd Foster wrote:
: > I'm curious though. When a magic user becomes a lich, is it after he
: >dies of old age that he continues as a lich, or does he actually DO
: >something to become a lich?
: I read somewhere (probably the Monstrous Manual) that liches are created when
: a power-crazed mage or priest performs some sort of rite or drinks a potion
: (can't remember exactly what). The undead don't die, so they have eternity
: to gain tons and tons of power. So, a mage or priest becomes a lich by choice.
There is a process involved. I have it around somewhere. It is
detailed in the Lords of Darkness (REF5) for the Forgotten Realms
accessory, page 73..75. It may actually be in another place... i can't
quite recall if a Dragon Magazine I have has it or not.
Andy
Chelsea Wood
fantasy setting.
A Denizen of the Dark Dimension.. >;D
East, Nathan Dylan
>
> >Jay Taylor <std...@nell.shsu.edu> writes:
>
> The other night I was playing in a session where we encounterd a lich.
> The cleric in our group had a Rod of Resurrection and touched the lich
> with it and the dm ruled the lich dead. I am wanting opinions on this.
> I fell that a lich is powerful enough to begin with, but would that rod
> have hurt him. It just seem that we beat that lich TOO easy. I was
> already
> rolling for whatever saving throw I needed for the butt whipping we
> were fixi
> and then it was over...
>
> <snip>
>
> Sounds like the DM rewarded the cleric for quick thinking. Sounds good
> to me. Several people have mentioned though that instead of dead, you
> might have ended up with a very alive very mad magic user.
> I'm curious though. When a magic user becomes a lich, is it after he
> dies of old age that he continues as a lich, or does he actually DO
> something to become a lich? I ask because if it is the second, I would
> be very afraid to try this on another lich. If ,however, it is the
> first, it would be impossible to EVER accidently bring a lich back to
> life. You cannot resurrect something which has died of old age no
> matter how recently it died.
>
> So who out there knows how liches are made???
>
> Todd
>
>
Ok, here's the deal, straight from the Monstrous C. The wizard or priest
must prepare his phylactery with glyphs, silver, and what not. The
phylactery has to be worth a whole helluvalotta gold. Look, I'm not
directly quoting TSR!! Can't touch me....anyway. He then crafts a potion
that is mega-poisonous. Then, he casts several spells over the potion
including Cone of Cold, Wish, Permanency, and a few others. Then, he gulps
the potion. Then the wizard makes a CON check. If he fails it, he screwed
up a few of the spells on the potion, and now he's so dead that a divine
wish can't bring him back. If he makes it, his lifeforce goes into his
phylactery a la magic jar, and his body immediately falls dead to the
ground. The lifeforce spends the better part of a month in the phylactery
getting used to being a lich, and then comes out and inhabits the nearest
corpse, its own body being preferred, but any corpse will do in a pinch.
So liches did not die of old age. They killed their own bodies, but I
think its important to note that the actual life force DID NOT DIE! So,
how can you resurrect that which never really died?
-Nate