[SR] Killing Hands + shock glove

[Gurth]

Here’s one I don’t think I’ve ever seen discussed (or thought about
myself, for some reason): yesterday one of my players asked if his
physad could use a shock glove in combination with Killing Hands. He
thought I would say “no” due to it being overpowered if both could
cause damage in a single attack, but my reasoning is that it’s two
entirely independent things at work (magic that makes a punch cause
physical damage, and an electrical shock) so I don’t really see why it
_wouldn’t_ work like that. It could be an almost ridiculously powerful
combo, though.

What do others think?

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[Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)]

On 9/16/18 4:34 AM, Gurth wrote:
> Here’s one I don’t think I’ve ever seen discussed (or thought about
> myself, for some reason): yesterday one of my players asked if his
> physad could use a shock glove in combination with Killing Hands. He
> thought I would say “no” due to it being overpowered if both could
> cause damage in a single attack, but my reasoning is that it’s two
> entirely independent things at work (magic that makes a punch cause
> physical damage, and an electrical shock) so I don’t really see why it
> _wouldn’t_ work like that. It could be an almost ridiculously powerful
> combo, though.
>
> What do others think?
>

My basic principle is "if it makes sense, it works". Balanced by "if
you can do it, they can too, so do you really want that rule?"



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[Niels Kobschaetzki]

gu...@xs4all.nl wrote:

>Here’s one I don’t think I’ve ever seen discussed (or thought about
>myself, for some reason): yesterday one of my players asked if his
>physad could use a shock glove in combination with Killing Hands. He
>thought I would say “no” due to it being overpowered if both could
>cause damage in a single attack, but my reasoning is that it’s two
>entirely independent things at work (magic that makes a punch cause
>physical damage, and an electrical shock) so I don’t really see why it
>_wouldn’t_ work like that. It could be an almost ridiculously powerful
>combo, though.
>
>What do others think?

I always thought that Killing Hands is more of a bare-handed thing,
maybe thing protective or leather gloves might work with it, but that's
it. Anything thicker and the magic wouldn't work. I wouldn't even think
that boxing gloves or thinner martial arts-gloves like those from MMA
might really work.
The big question is: how do Killing Hands actually work. Do they have to
contact the target? This would also be interesting, when the phys adept
starts a fight with a meaningful removal of gloves (like Rogue from
X-Men). Or is does it reach around the hands (how far)? Does it deliver
like a "shock wave" (which would mean you could hit something behind a
wall) starting from the hands flying for a couple of centimeters.

Niels

[Gurth]

ni...@kobschaetzki.net wrote:

>I always thought that Killing Hands is more of a bare-handed thing,
>maybe thing protective or leather gloves might work with it, but that's
>it. Anything thicker and the magic wouldn't work. I wouldn't even think
>that boxing gloves or thinner martial arts-gloves like those from MMA
>might really work.

Shock gloves don’t need to be thick and padded — the illustration in the
Street Samurai Catalog shows a thin, mostly mesh glove.

>The big question is: how do Killing Hands actually work. Do they have to
>contact the target?

Spells require contact of auras, not flesh, which is the explanation for
why you can cast spells at someone wearing clothes, and why touch-range
spells get a -1 target number modifier (you only need to touch the aura,
not the physical person). Auras extend some indefinite distance outside the
body (enough for magic to work — try to define it more closely than that
and you get rules lawyers wearing clothes that are 1 mm thicker than the
defined aura distance :) I’d say Killing Hands need to touch the target’s
aura for much the same reason, though I wouldn’t give a -1 modifier to
strikes using it.

[Ubiquitous]

gu...@xs4all.nl wrote:

>Here’s one I don’t think I’ve ever seen discussed (or thought about
>myself, for some reason): yesterday one of my players asked if his
>physad could use a shock glove in combination with Killing Hands. He
>thought I would say “no” due to it being overpowered if both could
>cause damage in a single attack, but my reasoning is that it’s two
>entirely independent things at work (magic that makes a punch cause
>physical damage, and an electrical shock) so I don’t really see why it
>_wouldn’t_ work like that. It could be an almost ridiculously powerful
>combo, though.
>
>What do others think?

In all the years I played, I don't think anyone has ever thought of
that.

For some reason I thought you couldn't stack them, maybe b/c
they have to be bare-handed attacks?

Darnit, I feel compelled to look now. :-)

--
Dems & the media want Trump to be more like Obama, but then he'd
have to audit liberals & wire tap reporters' phones.

[Flo 'Irian' Schaetz]

>The big question is: how do Killing Hands actually work. Do they have to
>contact the target?

Technically, the first target being hit would be the gloves
themselves... ;-)

[Ubiquitous]

web...@polaris.net wrote:
>gu...@xs4all.nl wrote:

>>Here’s one I don’t think I’ve ever seen discussed (or thought about
>>myself, for some reason): yesterday one of my players asked if his
>>physad could use a shock glove in combination with Killing Hands. He
>>thought I would say “no” due to it being overpowered if both could
>>cause damage in a single attack, but my reasoning is that it’s two
>>entirely independent things at work (magic that makes a punch cause
>>physical damage, and an electrical shock) so I don’t really see why it
>>_wouldn’t_ work like that. It could be an almost ridiculously powerful
>>combo, though.
>>
>>What do others think?
>
>In all the years I played, I don't think anyone has ever thought of
>that.
>
>For some reason I thought you couldn't stack them, maybe b/c
>they have to be bare-handed attacks?
>
>Darnit, I feel compelled to look now. :-)

According the 2nd edition rules, it has to be a bare-handed attack to
work.

Your edition may vary. ;-)

[Gurth]

Op 16 sep. 2018, om 15:05 heeft M Weber <web...@polaris.net> het volgende
geschreven:

> According the 2nd edition rules, it has to be a bare-handed attack
> to work.

This obviously leads to the question: what is a "bare-handed attack"
exactly? I take that to mean "not using a weapon", not "with naked
hands".

The SRII rulebook also says it can't be augmented by either weaponry or
magic, but that just looks to me like they didn't actually consider all
the possibilities. Yes, a knife or a sword or something wouldn't work,
because then you're striking the target with the weapon and not the hand
that delivers the magic. But a glove . if it works with a hand wearing a
normal glove, then it would also work with a shock glove, unless the
magic is too smart for its own good ("You're wearing a glove that's also
a weapon, so I'll refuse to work for no apparent reason at all").

Third edition doesn't even have this supposed explanation, instead using
the more generic terms that it must be an unarmed attack. That certainly
allows a gloved hand to work (or another body part, which has always been
my interpretation anyway - why not allow kicks etc. as well?) but OTOH,
it also doesn't mention using what amounts to an unarmed strike using a
weapon.