Is this an annoying deck?
Neal Ulen
weekend:
The Abyss - 1
Meekstone - 1
Regrowth - 1
Demonic Tutor - 1
Sol Ring - 1
Howling Mine - 4
Black Vise - 4
Ivory Tower - 3 (don't have 4)
Underworld Dreams - 4
Storm Seeker - 4 (a truly annoying card when used with this deck)
Dark Ritual - 4
Relic Barrier - 3 (may take these out)
Stream of Life - 3
Darkness - 3
Fog - 3
Sylvan Library - 2 (don't have 4)
Forest - 9
Swamp - 7
Bayou - 2 (don't have 4 :-( )
Sidebar: Mana Shorts, Elemental Blasts, Flash Counters, and Islands
for taking on "non-creature" decks.
That should be a total of 60.
Most of the people I played were quite annoyed that they got spanked by
a deck with no creatures in it. Most of them didn't seem to have
much playing experience...and all of them (except my friend) played
"traditional" (beasty) decks.
The tournament was out of town, so a friend and I drove there. My sidebar
was basically set up for his deck, and his deck (and sidebar) was setup
for my deck as well. The tournament was a free-for-all with the winner
having the most points based on degrees of victory (won't go into that).
Since we new (and had already played against) each others decks, we avoided
each other during play. Well after 3 out of the 4 hours of the tourney,
neither of us had a loss. So we sat down and played for part of the prize
that one of us was going to eventually win.
He ended up beating me with his land destruction, lightning bolt, shatter
deck.
The prize: 1 starter deck of Jyhad, and 1 BOX! of Jyhad boosters...and with
no entry fee! Well since we where borrowing each other's cards, we decided
to just split the booster box (when it comes out), and he gets the starter
deck since he beat me in our little duel.
All in all not a bad Saturday afternoon.
But the question remains...is the above deck really that annoying against
people with traditional decks? Just wondering.
--
Neal E. Ulen (ne...@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu)
Pink Thing
>Storm Seeker - 4 (a truly annoying card when used with this deck)
>
>people with traditional decks? Just wondering.
Yes, this sort of deck is very annoying. At Origins I was trading for Black
Vises just so I could tear them up. This sort of deck really doesn't seem to
require any skill. Just about any idiot could play it and win.
--
Dirk Walls<>di...@ecst.csuchico.edu<>Hey ho rock-n-roll, deliver me from nowhere
Shadow Weaver
[Stuff about deck and winning consistantly deleted]
>
> All in all not a bad Saturday afternoon.
> But the question remains...is the above deck really that annoying against
> people with traditional decks? Just wondering.
Well, after reading the post, that came across as very impressive!
I have yet to play or even know someone who plays with non-creature decks,
and after reading your post im just amazed. Annoying? Probably, but you WERE
in a tournament. In which case you want to be as annoying and deadly as
possible! However, I might suggest using a traditional deck with friends and
such for normal games. A friend of mine has a killer deck made that no one
can seem to beat unless we play a 6 player game and gang up on him from the
beginning. He now uses normal decks so he doesn't get called "asshole"
repeatedly... :)
>
> --
> Neal E. Ulen (ne...@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu)
>
--
=----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
= You'll meet your fear, and see its bigger, so much BIGGER than you feared. =
=----------------------------------------LPD-City-Of-Needles-----------------=
--dmk...@students.wisc.edu
Mark J. Dulcey
>
>Sidebar: Mana Shorts, Elemental Blasts, Flash Counters, and Islands
>for taking on "non-creature" decks.
>
>That should be a total of 60.
>Most of the people I played were quite annoyed that they got spanked by
>a deck with no creatures in it. Most of them didn't seem to have
>much playing experience...and all of them (except my friend) played
>"traditional" (beasty) decks.
Yes, this deck is annoying. Of course, all Underworld Dreams decks are.
This isn't even the worst I've heard of -- no Millstone, Wheel of Fortune,
Winds of Change, Braingeyser...
If memory serves, it also isn't quite legal for Convocation tournaments,
since Ivory Tower is on the restricted list. (Taking them out wouldn't
hurt your deck much, though.) And I suspect Underworld Dreams will be
restricted Real Soon Now.
eco...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
> I played with the following deck at a local tournament this
> weekend:
>
> Black Vise - 4
> Ivory Tower - 3 (don't have 4)
> Underworld Dreams - 4
> Storm Seeker - 4 (a truly annoying card when used with this deck)
<etc...>
> But the question remains...is the above deck really that annoying
> against people with traditional decks? Just wondering.
Of course it is annoying.
The reason is simple: Underworld Dreams is the most grossly obscenely
unbalanced card I have ever seen (and this game has quite a few).
The solution is simple: Issue an official bug-fix that changes the
card text so that ALL players take 1 damage for each card they draw.
It would still be a useful and (in certain combinations) powerful
card, but it would not be an immediate "you lose, sucker" card.
Some posters have suggested adding UD to the Restricted List. IMHO,
this is addressing the symptom, not the disease. All of the cards
now on that list are there because they are unbalanced. So let's
find ways of balancing them (raise their casting cost, give them an
undesirable side-effect or upkeep cost, etc). If these cards were
balanced, we wouldn't need a Restricted List. They may be rare, but
that only makes them MORE unbalanced because you need to spend lots
of money to get them, and not everyone is willing to do that.
While we're at it, let's fix up some of the cards that no-one uses
because they are unbalanced the other way. Examples: Summon Grey
Ogre for 1R, Pearled Unicorn for 1W, Wall of Wood for 0; allow target
of Jump to bypass (non-flying) blockers and inflict damage on opponent.
There is always some disagreement and personal preference, but by and
large we all know which cards are good and which are bad. I may be on
my own here, but I think that if the game were really well designed and
balanced, there wouldn't be any good and bad cards - only good and bad
strategies.
- Keith
Robert J. Greanias
>unbalanced card I have ever seen (and this game has quite a few).
>The solution is simple: Issue an official bug-fix that changes the
>card text so that ALL players take 1 damage for each card they draw.
>It would still be a useful and (in certain combinations) powerful
>card, but it would not be an immediate "you lose, sucker" card.
Nah...Underworld dreams is merely getting a bashing it doesn't deserve.
Chalk it up to the over-reaction police again. Let's look at how it can
damage you:
draw phase
braingeyser
ancestral recall
howling mine
wheel of fortune
winds of change
probably a few others I've forgotten
Ways to avoid damage:
disenchant
tranquility
COP:Black
Northern Paladin
again, probably others that I can't think of off the top of my head.
Now, let's take a look at some cards noone seems to gripe about:
Storm Seeker : Draw a few of these early in the game, and it's game over
before your opponent can get anything down. Much quicker/less skill
kill than Underworld dreams.
Cursed Land : Do 1 damage every turn. Drop a few of these and it's
nearly as bad as the UW Dreams - plus this is available to the masses.
Prodigal Sorcerer : Tap to do 1 damage every turn - and you can even
direct it!!! Horrible!!!
>Some posters have suggested adding UD to the Restricted List. IMHO,
>this is addressing the symptom, not the disease. All of the cards
>now on that list are there because they are unbalanced. So let's
>find ways of balancing them (raise their casting cost, give them an
>undesirable side-effect or upkeep cost, etc). If these cards were
>balanced, we wouldn't need a Restricted List. They may be rare, but
>that only makes them MORE unbalanced because you need to spend lots
>of money to get them, and not everyone is willing to do that.
While this would be nice, it's quite often a card combination that causes
the problem, not the card itself. The basalt monolith problem probably
wouldn't be one without Howling Wind or Relic Bind out there. No
amount of play-testing would have discovered this (most likely), as the
concept would never have been around before the appropraite expansions
came out.
>While we're at it, let's fix up some of the cards that no-one uses
>because they are unbalanced the other way. Examples: Summon Grey
>Ogre for 1R, Pearled Unicorn for 1W, Wall of Wood for 0; allow target
>of Jump to bypass (non-flying) blockers and inflict damage on opponent.
I'm just in a disagreeable mood - but not every creature needs to be a
good one - especially for white, which should be creature-short as it
is. If you want a surplus of creatures, you shouldn't have as many as
you want of easy, cheap cast ones. Make a few of the average ones have
an average cost. If such a problem occurs that the cards are worthless,
ya never know. Perhaps we'll get 'The Virgin' card to pump up those
Unicorns of the Orge Lord. Not every card should have an advantage, or
at least one that works w/out the presence of other cards.
>There is always some disagreement and personal preference, but by and
>large we all know which cards are good and which are bad. I may be on
>my own here, but I think that if the game were really well designed and
>balanced, there wouldn't be any good and bad cards - only good and bad
>strategies.
Nah...good and bad cards are crucial...it's the finding ways to utilize
whatever bad cards you must play with to their fullest that makes good
and bad strategy (if everyone just has good cards - a large part of the
entire strategy is removed). Try playing in a closed deck league - buy
a starter and two boosters. Trade only within the group. See how much
you start liking the worthless cards.
/---------------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Rob Greanias grea...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| <Personal Data> |
| Elvis Sightings : 7 |
| Number of needles found in Diet Pepsi Cans : 5 |
| Half-Brothers of Bill Clinton I've met : 43 |
| Number of times struck Nancy Kerrigan in knee : 2 |
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| Arabian Nights Packs Opened : 1 |
| Cans of Mt Dew consumed : 25,764 |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
Roy Roberts
Robert J. Greanias <grea...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>The reason is simple: Underworld Dreams is the most grossly obscenely
>>unbalanced card I have ever seen (and this game has quite a few).
>
>>The solution is simple: Issue an official bug-fix that changes the
>>card text so that ALL players take 1 damage for each card they draw.
>>It would still be a useful and (in certain combinations) powerful
>>card, but it would not be an immediate "you lose, sucker" card.
>
>Nah...Underworld dreams is merely getting a bashing it doesn't deserve.
>Chalk it up to the over-reaction police again. Let's look at how it can
>damage you:
>draw phase
>braingeyser
>ancestral recall
>howling mine
>wheel of fortune
>winds of change
>probably a few others I've forgotten
>Ways to avoid damage:
>disenchant
>tranquility
>COP:Black
Just as a side-note, CoP:Black as a defense against Underworld dreams is
next-to-useless. You have to power up the CoP:Black each time you draw a
card, and when you are hit by a timetwister, it's hard to power it up 7 times.
I play a Dreams deck in tournaments, and I've never seen anyone able to
defend against it with a CoP Black.
Tom Stevens
>That should be a total of 60.
>Most of the people I played were quite annoyed that they got spanked by
>a deck with no creatures in it. Most of them didn't seem to have
>much playing experience...and all of them (except my friend) played
>"traditional" (beasty) decks.
I had a deck like this. At least the howling mine, black vise, ivory
tower combo. (Ivory tower is restricted by the way, your tourney should
have disqualified you). It was named Deckslayer (also had ancestral
recall, and brain geyser etcc..) by me, and was nicknamed "the annoying deck
by all my freinds. and opponents.
>The tournament was out of town, so a friend and I drove there. My sidebar
>was basically set up for his deck, and his deck (and sidebar) was setup
>for my deck as well. The tournament was a free-for-all with the winner
>having the most points based on degrees of victory (won't go into that).
>Since we new (and had already played against) each others decks, we avoided
>each other during play. Well after 3 out of the 4 hours of the tourney,
>neither of us had a loss. So we sat down and played for part of the prize
>that one of us was going to eventually win.
>He ended up beating me with his land destruction, lightning bolt, shatter
>deck.
>The prize: 1 starter deck of Jyhad, and 1 BOX! of Jyhad boosters...and with
>no entry fee! Well since we where borrowing each other's cards, we decided
>to just split the booster box (when it comes out), and he gets the starter
>deck since he beat me in our little duel.
>All in all not a bad Saturday afternoon.
>But the question remains...is the above deck really that annoying against
>people with traditional decks? Just wondering.
Yes. Mostly for the Ivory towers. but in general, creatures are more fun,
to play against as well as to play with. I eventually got bored with mine
and split it into other decks.
--
N...@thepoint.com
First master of the backwards philosophy.
Hail Eris and Praise the Huddab!
Rahul Singhal
|> In article <30d43t$l...@owl.csrv.uidaho.edu>, ne...@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (Neal Ulen) writes:
|> > I played with the following deck at a local tournament this
|> > weekend:
|> >
|> > Howling Mine - 4
|> > Black Vise - 4
|> > Ivory Tower - 3 (don't have 4)
|> > Underworld Dreams - 4
|> > Storm Seeker - 4 (a truly annoying card when used with this deck)
|>
|> <etc...>
|>
Just thought I'd suggest putting in some Takklemaggots, as long as you
don't put any creatures in your deck :) Cause they work the same as
Underworld Dreams, just a little harder to get out.
Rahul
Bill Seurer
|> In article <30ladn$a...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
|> Robert J. Greanias <grea...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
|> >>The reason is simple: Underworld Dreams is the most grossly obscenely
|> >>unbalanced card I have ever seen (and this game has quite a few).
|> >
|> >>The solution is simple: Issue an official bug-fix that changes the
|> >>card text so that ALL players take 1 damage for each card they draw.
|> >>It would still be a useful and (in certain combinations) powerful
|> >>card, but it would not be an immediate "you lose, sucker" card.
|> >
|> >Nah...Underworld dreams is merely getting a bashing it doesn't deserve.
|> >Chalk it up to the over-reaction police again. Let's look at how it can
|> >damage you:
|> >draw phase
|> >braingeyser
|> >ancestral recall
|> >howling mine
|> >wheel of fortune
|> >winds of change
|> >probably a few others I've forgotten
Right. Far too many of them and mostly in 2 colors that already are great
to play with black.
|> >Ways to avoid damage:
|> >disenchant
|> >tranquility
|> >COP:Black
And far too few.
|> Just as a side-note, CoP:Black as a defense against Underworld dreams is
|> next-to-useless. You have to power up the CoP:Black each time you draw a
|> card, and when you are hit by a timetwister, it's hard to power it up 7 times.
|> I play a Dreams deck in tournaments, and I've never seen anyone able to
|> defend against it with a CoP Black.
Underworld dreams is pretty bad though not quite as bad as Mirror Universe.
The real problem is it is a BLACK card which with Dark Ritual is the
easiest color to get lots of mana out early. A 3 black summoning cost
is not a real hindrance.
That brings up a question, isn't WotC testing new cards before they throw
them into an expansion? Aren't they thinking about them a bit? I'd hate
to see this get any worse. AN had a few obvious problem cards and so
has every other expansion. Think of what happened to Talisman with its
(obviously untested and un-thought about) expansions. With the extremely
short time between the latest expansions I think WotC is hurrying things
too much.
--
- Bill Seurer Language and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
Business: BillS...@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillS...@aol.com
CurtAdams
seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) writes:
>That brings up a question, isn't WotC testing new cards before they throw
>them into an expansion? Aren't they thinking about them a bit? I'd hate
>to see this get any worse. AN had a few obvious problem cards and so
>has every other expansion. Think of what happened to Talisman with its
>(obviously untested and un-thought about) expansions. With the extremely
>short time between the latest expansions I think WotC is hurrying things
>too much.
Well, not only do some excessively tough cards (like Underworld dreams)
get through, but so do weak ones. The Wood Elemental is apparently
useless except under very bizarre circumstances. To make it a 5/5
creature (craw wurm level) requires 4 mana to cast plus 5 sacrificed
untapped forests (9 mana total)- worse than a FON, which has 3 more
strength and toughness, plus trample. Since it needs 1 green, you can't
normally even use it to get rid of your forests to stop forestwalkers.
Livonya Sillone is an almost humorous example. She has legendary
landwalk, which actually sounds like a neat ability. Unfortunately, of
the five uncommon legendaries, one (Hammerheim) can negate any landwalk
ability and one (Karakas) can send a Legend back to its owner's hand.
Whoops.
Philippe MEDA
(CurtAdams) wrote:
(...)
> get through, but so do weak ones. The Wood Elemental is apparently
> useless except under very bizarre circumstances. To make it a 5/5
> creature (craw wurm level) requires 4 mana to cast plus 5 sacrificed
> untapped forests (9 mana total)- worse than a FON, which has 3 more
> strength and toughness, plus trample. Since it needs 1 green, you can't
> normally even use it to get rid of your forests to stop forestwalkers.
OK now here's a big internet contest : who's able to find how the use of a
Wood Elemental ?? (Except for suicide games of course).
Phil.
Peter M. White
I'll bite. Can't think of any genuinely practical ones, but here are
a few exotic uses...
1) Get rid of Psychic Venom without losing own enchantments.
2) Destroy Forest multilands to prevent landwalking.
3) In preparation for Dingus Egg + Balance/Armeggedon.
4) Living Lands + Soul Net
5) Limit Lifetap + Powersink combo
6) Feldon's Cane/Timetwister + Land's Edge
The Wood Elemental would definitely be my nominee for Design Team
Greatest Misses. Consider that there already exists a card which is
comparable to the Wood Elemental: the Rock Hydra. For a base of
of RR instead of 3G, you get a generally superior creature. Sure,
Rock Hydras are expensive toys to keep around (I never play with
them), but you can't get more mana expensive than a Wood Elemental.
--Peter
p-w...@uiuc.edu
William Hunter Adams IV
Cast it right before you use Armageddon!!
All your forests are going away anyway. (Of course, I haven't really found
a use for Armageddon yet.)
Hunter
--
William Hunter Adams IV | Ford:"It's unpleasently like being drunk."
aka. Pockets | Arthur:"What's so bad about being drunk?"
aka. Melinor Dareth | Ford:"Ask a glass of water."
vap...@prism.gatech.edu| ---- "The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy"
Philippe MEDA
Wood Elemental */*
'* is the number of forest tapped in addition to the summoning cost.'
With maybe a cost of 2GG or 1GGG instead of 3G.
Phil.
Philippe MEDA
> Cast it right before you use Armageddon!!
OK guy, this is a god one.
Phil.
Tom Wylie
>That brings up a question, isn't WotC testing new cards before they throw
>them into an expansion? Aren't they thinking about them a bit? I'd hate
Legend was tested for what, six months? Eight? The design team just tends
to have different ideas about what is and isn't over the top. The WotC
folks I've talked to have said that yes, AN had several problems in it,
but there was at least one Legends card which the playtesters urged them
to remove, but they didn't.
>With the extremely
>short time between the latest expansions I think WotC is hurrying things
>too much.
And probably we are, but the rapid pace of the expansions was largely due
to consumer demand at the time (less so now, when everyone's saying "ACK!").
The pace of expansions will slow down in the future, it looks like.
Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
aa...@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Christopher G. Wood
(Philippe MEDA) wrote:
>
> OK now here's a big internet contest : who's able to find how the use of a
> Wood Elemental ?? (Except for suicide games of course).
>
> Phil.
Actually, my friend (who has very few Legends and thus plays with most of
them), actually used the Wood Elemental to good effect against me (sort
of). He was playing a Green/Blue deck and it was fairly late in the game.
We were at a typical standoff where neither had much to attack with. He
finally said the hell with it, summoned the Wood Elemental, sacrificing 8
forests for a 8/8. Awfully expensive, but worth it since he next played 2
clones and had 3 8/8's.
I still think the Wood Elemental should have been common or uncommon. I'm
still mad that of the few duplicate rares I got im my Legends boxes, one
of them had to be a Wood Elemental.
Oh well.
Christopher
____ o
\ / Christopher Wood (Pittsburgh, PA) o o
\/ wood...@duq3.cc.duq.edu o o
+------------------------------------------------------+
| TC1.12 T4 C1 L2s h+(hc++) d-- a- w-(+) c y e(+) f-() |
| t++(1,4,6) k++! s- m2 q- |
+------------------------------------------------------+
Tom Wylie
>He finally said the hell with it, summoned the Wood Elemental, sacrificing 8
>forests for a 8/8. Awfully expensive, but worth it since he next played 2
>clones and had 3 8/8's.
Except that that doesn't work. The */* on the Elemental is equal to the
number of forests sacrificed as the Elemental enters play... You'll have to
sacrifice more forests for the Clones, else they'll be 0/0 and die. They
do not simply copy over the */* of the Elemental they're copying.
>I still think the Wood Elemental should have been common or uncommon. I'm
>still mad that of the few duplicate rares I got im my Legends boxes, one
>of them had to be a Wood Elemental.
So find someone to trade it to. Lots of people get in a huff when they get a
Savannah Lions or a -lace , but sooner or later find someone to trade them to.
Christopher G. Wood
> Christopher G. Wood <wood...@duq3.cc.duq.edu> wrote:
> >He finally said the hell with it, summoned the Wood Elemental, sacrificing 8
> >forests for a 8/8. Awfully expensive, but worth it since he next played 2
> >clones and had 3 8/8's.
>
> Except that that doesn't work. The */* on the Elemental is equal to the
> number of forests sacrificed as the Elemental enters play... You'll have to
> sacrifice more forests for the Clones, else they'll be 0/0 and die. They
> do not simply copy over the */* of the Elemental they're copying.
I wish I'd realize that at the time :). For some reason I thought the
sacrifice of forests was part of the cost and would transfer, but I see
the point now ("as the elemental enters play"). Oh well.
> >I still think the Wood Elemental should have been common or uncommon. I'm
> >still mad that of the few duplicate rares I got im my Legends boxes, one
> >of them had to be a Wood Elemental.
>
> So find someone to trade it to. Lots of people get in a huff when they get a
> Savannah Lions or a -lace , but sooner or later find someone to trade them to.
Oh I will. I wasn't trying to sound bitter, just cursing my luck :). By
the way, I LOVE Savannah Lions. Anyone out there with a couple who loves
wood elementals??
> Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
> aa...@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Christopher
waf...@hmc.edu
Another nice fix would be
'*/*+2 where * is the number of tapped forests in play'
(or just YOUR forests in play)
This would lead to a variable power/toughness... and in a pinch
you could tap forests during an attack to boost the elemental!
-wayne
Bill Seurer
|> In article <30m32a$9...@locutus.rchland.ibm.com>,
|> seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) writes:
|>
|> >That brings up a question, isn't WotC testing new cards before they throw
|> >them into an expansion? Aren't they thinking about them a bit? I'd hate
|> >to see this get any worse. AN had a few obvious problem cards and so
|> >has every other expansion. Think of what happened to Talisman with its
|> >(obviously untested and un-thought about) expansions. With the extremely
|> >short time between the latest expansions I think WotC is hurrying things
|> >too much.
|>
|> Well, not only do some excessively tough cards (like Underworld dreams)
|> get through, but so do weak ones. The Wood Elemental is apparently
|> useless except under very bizarre circumstances. To make it a 5/5
|> creature (craw wurm level) requires 4 mana to cast plus 5 sacrificed
|> untapped forests (9 mana total)- worse than a FON, which has 3 more
|> strength and toughness, plus trample. Since it needs 1 green, you can't
|> normally even use it to get rid of your forests to stop forestwalkers.
Good point. And the "duplicate" creatures with new names, too. Though
in some cases the artwork is better on the new ones.
|> Livonya Sillone is an almost humorous example. She has legendary
|> landwalk, which actually sounds like a neat ability. Unfortunately, of
|> the five uncommon legendaries, one (Hammerheim) can negate any landwalk
|> ability and one (Karakas) can send a Legend back to its owner's hand.
|> Whoops.
Yeah, but a 4/4 First Strike is nasty just for that. The landwalk part
is just a bit of a bonus.
James Buster
>All your forests are going away anyway. (Of course, I haven't really found
>a use for Armageddon yet.)
Armageddon+Dingus Egg is fun.
---
James Buster
bit...@highland.com
Robert Hunt
: Cast it right before you use Armageddon!!
: All your forests are going away anyway. (Of course, I haven't really found
: a use for Armageddon yet.)
When I was playing last week, my opponent thought he had found a good use
for Armageddon. . he had like three lands out and I had about twelve, and
he thought I had something really powerful in my hand (okay, I did have a
Shivan Dragon, but. . ), so he cast Armageddon. Well, okay, if you really
want to. In two turns, I had another land out and he had nothing. I put
down my library of leng, next turn I put down my ivory tower. Hehe. Ten
turns later, he still hasn't pulled out any land and I'm up to about 120
life points. . after a good deal of time, I've reached 610 life points
and he finally pulls enough land to cast a crumble. hehe. 611. ;) Anyhow,
I went on to toy with him until I got my channel, and, well, he had
about 12 creatures out, but just sacrificed about 80 life points and they
were all gone. :)
--
{ ..--=\|/=-- rwh...@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu --=\|/=--.. }
{ For information on Ragnarok, NIMH or LHi, e-mail the above address ASAP. :) }
{ . . The Best Revenge is to always survive yourself. -- Henry Rollins }
{ It's spelled Luxury Yacht, but pronounced Throatwarbler Mangrove. }
David DeLaney
>seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com (Bill Seurer) writes:
>>That brings up a question, isn't WotC testing new cards before they throw
>>them into an expansion? Aren't they thinking about them a bit? I'd hate
>>to see this get any worse. AN had a few obvious problem cards and so
>>has every other expansion. Think of what happened to Talisman with its
>>(obviously untested and un-thought about) expansions. With the extremely
>>short time between the latest expansions I think WotC is hurrying things
>>too much.
>
>Well, not only do some excessively tough cards (like Underworld dreams)
>get through, but so do weak ones. The Wood Elemental is apparently
>useless except under very bizarre circumstances. To make it a 5/5
>creature (craw wurm level) requires 4 mana to cast plus 5 sacrificed
>untapped forests (9 mana total)- worse than a FON, which has 3 more
>strength and toughness, plus trample. Since it needs 1 green, you can't
>normally even use it to get rid of your forests to stop forestwalkers.
Living Plane. The Wretched. Lure. Indestructible Aura. Sacrifice all those
lovely forests your opponent put down which blocked, harmlessly, and got
converted and are now mindlessly under your control, bwaaaahahaaaaa!
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney: d...@utkux.utcc.utk.edu; "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. Disclaimer: IMHO; VRbeableFUTPLEX
http://enigma.phys.utk.edu/~dbd/ for net.legends FAQ+miniFAQs; ftp: cathouse.org
Russell J Barnson
Wow. I've never run one of these before, and got a lot more response than
I expected the first two days. So here's an update!
All these cards are in new condition.
RULES:
1) AUCTION ENDS MIDNIGHT ON THURSDAY, 4 AUGUST, 1994!
(I got the date wrong on a previous post!)
2) We reserve the right to remove a card from the auction.
3) Buyer pays postage, maximum of $2.00 (if you get a LOT of cards!)
4) Send bids to j...@bert.cs.byu.edu
5) Bids are taken in order of arrival.
6) All bids must be in increments of $0.25
----------------AUCTION STATUS----------------------------
CURRENT AS OF 10:00 pm Friday, July 22
CARD CURRENT BID BIDDER
--------------------- ----------- --------
************* UNCOMMONS *****************************
(LEGENDS)
Barktooth Warbeard (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Jasmine Boreal $1.00 Min Bid
Jedit Ojanen (2) $1.00 Min Bid
Jerrard of the Closed Fist $1.00 Min Bid
Kasmir the Lone Wolf (2) $1.00 Min Bid
The Lady of the Mountain $1.00 hui...@tline.stortek.com
The Lady of the Mountain (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Lady Orca (4) $1.00 Min Bid
Pavel Maliki (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Princess Lucrezia $1.00 ca...@engin.umich.edu
Riven Turnbull (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Tobias Andrion $1.00 Min Bid
Torston Von Ursus $1.00 Min Bid
(BLACK)
Abomination $2.00 sb...@opal.cs.virginia.edu
Blight $1.00 ca...@engin.umich.edu
Demonic Torment (4) $1.00 Min Bid
Touch of Darkness (4) $1.00 Min Bid
Quagmire (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Horror of Horrors (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Fallen Angel $1.00 hui...@tline.stortek.com
Fallen Angel $1.50 sb...@opal.cs.virginia.edu
Lesser Werewolf (4) $1.00 Min Bid
Evil Eye of Orms-By_Gore (4) $1.00 Min Bid
Infernal Medusa $1.00 hui...@tline.stortek.com
(BLUE)
Azure Drake $1.00 Min Bid
Azure Drake $1.00 sb...@opal.cs.virginia.edu
Backfire $1.50 sb...@opal.cs.virginia.edu
Backfire (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Brine Hag $1.00 Min Bid
Reset (4) $1.00 Min Bid
Dream Coat (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Part Water $1.00 Min Bid
Undertow $1.00 Min Bid
Sergovian Leviathan $1.00 Min Bid
Wall of Wonder (2) $1.00 Min Bid
(GREEN)
Storm Seeker $1.00 sb...@opal.cs.virginia.edu
Storm Seeker (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Rabid Wombat (3) $1.00 ca...@engin.umich.edu
Untamed Wilds (5) $1.00 Min Bid
Sylvan Paradise (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Reincarnation (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Ichneumon Druid (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Craw Giant (4) $1.00 ca...@engin.umich.edu
Whirling Dervish $1.00 hui...@tline.stortek.com
Whirling Dervish (2) $1.00 sb...@opal.virginia.edu
(RED)
Hyperion Blacksmith (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Kobold Taskmaster (3) $1.00 hoga...@gold.tc.umn.edu
Aerathi Berserker (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Primordial Ooze (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Kobold Drill Sergeant (2) $1.00 hoga...@gold.tc.umn.edu
Winds of Change (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Crevasse (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Blood Lust (4) $1.00 Min Bid
Dwarven Song $1.00 Min Bid
Beasts of Bogardan $1.00 Min Bid
(WHITE)
Visions (4) $1.00 Min Bid
Kismet (4) $1.00 Min Bid
Greater Realm of Preserv. $1.00 hui...@tline.stortek.com
Greater Realm of Preserv. (2) $1.00 Min Bid
Shield Wall (4) $1.00 Min Bid
Great Wall (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Fortified Area (4) $1.00 Min Bid
Seeker $1.00 ze...@unagi.cis.upenn.edu
Wall of Light $1.00 ca...@engin.umich.edu
Righteous Avengers (4) $1.00 Min Bid
Presence of the Master $1.00 Min Bid
Land Tax $2.00 Osmon...@ccmail.adp.wisc.edu
(ARTIFACTS)
Life Chisel (8) $1.00 Min Bid
Red Mana Battery (5) $1.00 Min Bid
Black Mana Battery (2) $1.00 Min Bid
White Mana Battery (2) $1.00 ju...@bert.byu.edu
Marble Priest (3) $1.00 Min Bid
Kry Shield $1.00 sb...@opal.cs.virginia.edu
Relic Barrier $1.00 Min Bid
eco...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
NO flames. I thought it was going to be treated as blasphemy, heresy or
at least idealistic stupidity, but so far it has been completely ignored.
Come on, you guys, SAY SOMETHING!
Reposted text follows:
Steve Thompson
: Livonya Sillone is an almost humorous example. She has legendary
: landwalk, which actually sounds like a neat ability. Unfortunately, of
: the five uncommon legendaries, one (Hammerheim) can negate any landwalk
: ability and one (Karakas) can send a Legend back to its owner's hand.
: Whoops.
Of course, legendary lands *could* show up in future expansions. Livonya
could be one of those sleeper cards that everyone thinks isn't very good
until a few expansions from now.
Daniel Phillips
> While we're at it, let's fix up some of the cards that no-one uses
> because they are unbalanced the other way. Examples: Summon Grey
> Ogre for 1R, Pearled Unicorn for 1W, Wall of Wood for 0; allow target
> of Jump to bypass (non-flying) blockers and inflict damage on opponent.
Any player who has less than 500 cards (and there are a lot of them) knows
the value of a pearled unicorn, a grey ogre, Ironclaw Orcs, etc. I have
many more than 500 cards, so I give such cards (not sell, not trade, give)
to my friends when they just start out, so that they can field a two color
deck that has a decent number of creatures in it.
If you can't figure out why I like to put jump in my competition decks, I'd
like to play you for ante.... {grin}
I don't know of any card that needs changing (as long as you don't think
you get a Rukh from being forced to discard the egg....) If you don't
like Underworld Dreams, play disenchant, tranquility, nevenyrall's disk,
chaos orb, CoP: Black, Boomerang, or desert twister. (I may have left out
some other good ways to deal with it.)
(for the record, though, I would like to see it on the restricted list)
Just my 2 cents...
-Dan
Mutant for Hire
of getting rid of some lands that are under severe enemy enchantment,
not unlike sacrificing a Wanderlusted creature to a Pit Fiend.
--
Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Synchronicity Daemon, Priest of Shub-Internet
Disclaimer: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but flames are just ignored
mfte...@phoenix.princeton.edu mfte...@pucc.bitnet an7...@anon.penet.fi
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"
The ELF
> While we're at it, let's fix up some of the cards that no-one uses
> because they are unbalanced the other way. Examples: Summon Grey
> Ogre for 1R, Pearled Unicorn for 1W, Wall of Wood for 0; allow target
> of Jump to bypass (non-flying) blockers and inflict damage on opponent.
>
Actually, the Pearled Unicorn & the Grey Ogre should remain at 2R and
2W respectively. Reducing their casting costs takes away from Green's
speciality - creatures, generally cheap.
The Grey Ogre is a problem because of two cards with the same casting
cost in Red: Uthden Troll, and Granite Gargoyle. If both of these were
RR1 then the Grey Ogre's casting cost would be more acceptable.
As a general rule, most 2/2 creatures are C2 to cast, C being any colour.
In the case of Green, its creatures are cheaper on the whole than similar
creatures in other colours. Thus the Grizzly Bears are G1.
> There is always some disagreement and personal preference, but by and
> large we all know which cards are good and which are bad. I may be on
> my own here, but I think that if the game were really well designed and
> balanced, there wouldn't be any good and bad cards - only good and bad
> strategies.
Well, I disagree with this idea of no good and bad cards in a "really well
designed and balanced" game, for Magic IMO *is* a "really well designed and
balanced" game. You can't catch everything.
There are cards considered less useful, and cards considered more useful.
A Grizzly Bear is more useful than a Pearled Unicorn - but only if you're
playing Green as opposed to White.
No game can be completely balanced - especially one with as many potential
strategies as Magic. Magic works remarkably well for what it is - there are
a few problems, but none which totally kills the game. (Or at least they
can be worked around, as in the case of the Basalt Monolith/Relic Bind combo).
Don't forget that cards are being subtracted and added from the card set every
few months or so. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Uthden Troll disappear
one of these days. I fear for the Elvish Archers - the Hornet Cobra has
exactly the same abilities, but is GG1 as opposed to G1. Rare cards which are
cheap to cast & have special abilities (Elvish Archers, Granite Gargoyle)
should not stay that long in this game. The original concept of people having
only small numbers of cards is long gone by now.
I will be very interested in the Re-Revised set of cards - seeing how
WotC are changing the card mix this time. From what I've heard on this group,
we'll get more Antiquities and Legends in this mix.
Don't forget that the Orcish Oriflamme changed from being R1 to summon to R3.
Cards *can* change their casting costs - don't give up hope yet for a more
balanced game.
Just as long as "more balanced" doesn't mean EVERY SINGLE CARD is an
Ornithoptor.
May your forests preserve and protect you,
The ELF
--
=== The ELF === mbl...@mdw015.cc.monash.edu.au === The ELF ===
"The forest's green, in beautiful spring,
When all is good and all will be:
A marvel to behold! A marvel to behold!"
Steve Thompson
: I posted this a couple of days ago and have seen NO replies and received
: at least idealistic stupidity, but so far it has been completely ignored.
: Come on, you guys, SAY SOMETHING!
: Reposted text follows:
: In article <30d43t$l...@owl.csrv.uidaho.edu>, ne...@raven.csrv.uidaho.edu (Neal Ulen) writes:
: > I played with the following deck at a local tournament this
: > weekend:
: >
: > Howling Mine - 4
: > Black Vise - 4
: > Ivory Tower - 3 (don't have 4)
: > Underworld Dreams - 4
: > Storm Seeker - 4 (a truly annoying card when used with this deck)
Unless your tournament isn't using the restricted list, this deck was
illegal, since Ivory Tower is restricted.
: The solution is simple: Issue an official bug-fix that changes the
: card text so that ALL players take 1 damage for each card they draw.
: It would still be a useful and (in certain combinations) powerful
: card, but it would not be an immediate "you lose, sucker" card.
I don't really think this is necessary, since the card does what it was
intended to do. It's a powerful card, yes, but certainly not unbeatable.
: Some posters have suggested adding UD to the Restricted List. IMHO,
: this is addressing the symptom, not the disease. All of the cards
: now on that list are there because they are unbalanced. So let's
: find ways of balancing them (raise their casting cost, give them an
: undesirable side-effect or upkeep cost, etc). If these cards were
: balanced, we wouldn't need a Restricted List. They may be rare, but
: that only makes them MORE unbalanced because you need to spend lots
: of money to get them, and not everyone is willing to do that.
The problem here is that so many of most of these cards already exist.
Trying to change anything fundamental about them would be a big mess if
they tried to retroactively change the ones that already exist, and only
changing future ones would be unfair to newer players. If there are going
to be unbalancing cards, at least everybody should be able to have them
and not just a select few.
: While we're at it, let's fix up some of the cards that no-one uses
: because they are unbalanced the other way. Examples: Summon Grey
: Ogre for 1R, Pearled Unicorn for 1W, Wall of Wood for 0; allow target
: of Jump to bypass (non-flying) blockers and inflict damage on opponent.
Hmm, I guess I'm naive or something. I use all of these cards from time
to time. Jump always struck me as more of a defensive card anyway.
: There is always some disagreement and personal preference, but by and
: large we all know which cards are good and which are bad. I may be on
: my own here, but I think that if the game were really well designed and
: balanced, there wouldn't be any good and bad cards - only good and bad
: strategies.
A lot of the "good" cards are also the most interesting. I think having
every card be about as powerful as every other card would remove a lot of
the variety from the game. And it would sure make rarity levels
pointless, and opening boosters would be a lot less fun.
Jack Wilson
>OK now here's a big internet contest : who's able to find out the use of a
>Wood Elemental ?? (Except for suicide games of course).
>
>Phil.
It selectively destroys your forests, while leaving your opponent's lands
intact. Go from there, and remember that having tons more land than your
opponent can be turned into a big disadvantage.
(Most of the uses I can see are in a green/white deck...)
-- Jack
--
Personal: dee...@netcom.com
Deckmaster requests: magic-...@netcom.com
Jyhad limited edition still available!
Robert C. Kruger
4 Land Tax
4 Wood Elementals
4 Cprot Green
4 Balance
4 Fastbond
4 Force o' Nature
4 Llanowars
4 Birdies
4 Juxtaposes
and land
BTW, Pretty low on the plains mana, almost none actually. Just use Double
green white mana so you can sacrifice it.
same thing with islands, none at all. just use birds for that.
I just love to laugh when you have a cprot green and you juxtapose a force
of nature to your oponent.
Robert K.
David Rogers
> >people with traditional decks? Just wondering.
>
> Vises just so I could tear them up. This sort of deck really doesn't seem
> require any skill. Just about any idiot could play it and win.
But the same can be said of any well constructed deck. Deck building is an
art and science and skill totally seperate and removed from the art and
science and skill of game play.
If only, now, I could get people to understand the difference 'tween playing
to win and playing for fun (winning eventually).
David Rogers
* JABBER v1.1 * Cool... I broke his brain... <snicker>
Bob
Late in the game play Power Surge, then kill all your forests. Let him try
and use all his land. Play with a couple firebreathings to dump your red
mana into and you are set.....
Robert I. Eachus
In article <30ls8m$3...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> rrob...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Roy Roberts) writes:
> >Ways to avoid damage:
> >disenchant
> >tranquility
> >COP:Black
> Just as a side-note, CoP:Black as a defense against Underworld
> dreams is next-to-useless. You have to power up the CoP:Black each
> time you draw a card, and when you are hit by a timetwister, it's
> hard to power it up 7 times. I play a Dreams deck in tournaments,
> and I've never seen anyone able to defend against it with a CoP
> Black.
How does your deck do against Ivory Tower players? Or Desert
Twisters? And of course, Presence of the Master, a really nice card
if you have two Icy's: one to tap so you can put out an enchantment,
and another to lock the door again.
--
Robert I. Eachus
with Standard_Disclaimer;
use Standard_Disclaimer;
function Message (Text: in Clever_Ideas) return Better_Ideas is...
Tom Wylie
> How does your deck do against Ivory Tower players? Or Desert
>Twisters? And of course, Presence of the Master, a really nice card
>if you have two Icy's: one to tap so you can put out an enchantment,
>and another to lock the door again.
Except that Presence of the Master is an enchantment, and the Manipulator
can't tap enchantments (card text), nor can it untap anything (card text).
Nathan Engle
>rrob...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Roy Roberts) writes:
> > I play a Dreams deck in tournaments,
> > and I've never seen anyone able to defend against it with a CoP
> > Black.
> How does your deck do against Ivory Tower players? Or Desert
>Twisters? And of course, Presence of the Master, a really nice card
>if you have two Icy's: one to tap so you can put out an enchantment,
>and another to lock the door again.
Icy Manipulators are really neato cards, but if you've been tapping your
Presense of the Master with them then I think you're misreading the card.
Neither an Icy or a Twiddle can be used to tap an enchantment.
Once an enchantment is in place, you can break it with disenchant,
tranquility, Larry's Disk, etc, but you can NOT suppress its effects by
tapping it with an Icy. And you can't ever use an Icy to untap any card. The
IM is a one-way proposition. It's still a nice card, but it does have limits.
--
Nathan Engle Electron Juggler
Indiana University Dept of Psychology
nen...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
"Vae Victis"
Merlyn LeRoy
>if you have two Icy's: one to tap so you can put out an enchantment,
>and another to lock the door again.
Nope, you can't tap Enchantments like PotM.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
Jacob McGuire
>In article o...@acmex.gatech.edu, vap...@prism.gatech.edu (William Hunter Adams IV) writes:
>>All your forests are going away anyway. (Of course, I haven't really found
>>a use for Armageddon yet.)
>
>Armageddon+Dingus Egg is fun.
>
Nimbus (In mass quantities).
Jake
>---
> James Buster
> bit...@highland.com
>
>
Michael Martak
: In article <30notk$o...@search01.news.aol.com>, curt...@aol.com
: (CurtAdams) wrote:
: (...)
: > get through, but so do weak ones. The Wood Elemental is apparently
: > useless except under very bizarre circumstances. To make it a 5/5
: > creature (craw wurm level) requires 4 mana to cast plus 5 sacrificed
: > untapped forests (9 mana total)- worse than a FON, which has 3 more
: > strength and toughness, plus trample. Since it needs 1 green, you can't
: > normally even use it to get rid of your forests to stop forestwalkers.
You are looking at the glass as half empty, to exercise a boring cliche.
Those 5 forests you sacrifice don't have to be untapped to use them!
True, Wood Elemental has very limited use, but they are very good
in land destruction decks.
--Michael Martak
Pontiff of SPAM
John Benn
>Michael Martak <mar...@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>>You are looking at the glass as half empty, to exercise a boring cliche.
>>Those 5 forests you sacrifice don't have to be untapped to use them!
>
>sacrifice..."
>
>
>Tom Wylie rec.games.deckmaster Network Representative for
>aa...@hal.com Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
>
It truly is a useless card. I'm glad I only own one of them.
What were they thinking when they made it. Hmmm.... Force of
Nature or the totally useless Wood Elemental. I wonder what I should
put in my deck? It would be different if you could chose any forests
in play for sacrifice and then it would be a good Gaea's Liege combo
card. Oh well. Playtesters aren't perfect.
eco...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
> A fix for this damn card could be :
>
> Wood Elemental */*
> '* is the number of forest tapped in addition to the summoning cost.'
>
> With maybe a cost of 2GG or 1GGG instead of 3G.
>
> Phil.
Or keep * as the number of forests sacrificed, but change the casting
cost to zero.
Or make it */*+2, with a casting cost of G.
- Keith
Tom Wylie
>You are looking at the glass as half empty, to exercise a boring cliche.
>Those 5 forests you sacrifice don't have to be untapped to use them!
Yes they do: "*s... are set to the number of untapped forests you
Paul Pantera
was decided that, like most cards, it would be great in the right deck. For
example, in a green/white deck with Balance and/or Land Tax. Those two cards
actually make it a fun card.
-Paul
Hans M Dykstra
<eco...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>In article <meda-220...@seine.ceng.cea.fr>, me...@dsvgre.cea.fr (Philippe MEDA) writes:
>> A fix for this damn card could be :
>>
>> Wood Elemental */*
>> '* is the number of forest tapped in addition to the summoning cost.'
>>
>> With maybe a cost of 2GG or 1GGG instead of 3G.
>
>cost to zero.
>
>Or make it */*+2, with a casting cost of G.
Or, "When summoned, * is set to the amount of G paid in addition to
the casting cost. During upkeep, * is set to the amount of G paid as
upkeep. If no upkeep is paid, Wood Elemental is buried at the end of
upkeep."
So it is kind of like sacrificing those forests (you can't use them
for anything else if you are paying to upkeep the Wood Elemental
(barring Ley Druids, etc.)), but if you need some or all of them back,
you can just pay less upkeep. Conversely, if you add forests later,
you can make your WE even stronger.
Alternately, you could just require that * forests be tapped every
upkeep, or Wood Elemental is buried. Again, that maintains the idea
that you have to invest your forests in creating the Wood Elemental,
but when it dies or you no longer need it, you can get them back.
***
hmd
Shannon John Clark
in the right sort of decks. It is one of the very few ways of getting
RID of your own lands. Why would you want to do this? Well take the
following deck as one case when this is not just useful but downright
powerful!
a deck with all the usual fast mana green stuff (elves, birds,sol
ring, perhaps moxen, perhaps monoliths, other mana sources, possiblely
red mana with wild growths.) you then add four living planes and two
or four tabernacles of pendale vale some dingus eggs and wood
elementals and then in play you do the following play the wood
elemental to get rid of your excess land (hopefully all of your
forests)
then play a dingus egg and the tabernacle and watch your
opponent either tap all his lands to pay their upkeep and see his
other creatures die, or watch him tap land to pay his creatures upkeep
and see his lands get destroyed for lack of upkeep and watch him take
damage.
In either case he will be very annoyed about your wood elemental which
allowed you to get rid of your land.
Or take another case of a red green deck where you use the wood
elemental to get rid of forests to make dealing with your psychic
purges easier, or your mana barbs etc.
Or you can use the wood elemental to get rid of lands with annoying
enchantments on them, such as psychic venom, or the like.
Or you can simply use it for a big creature later in the game when you
often have a lot of green mana without much to do with it.
just a few examples of potential uses, it is one of the few cards
which allow you to get rid of lands, often seemingly a useless thing
but in certain cases very very useful.
just another slightly complex case, say you are playing a multicolor
deck and have a land's edge out and want to guarentee a way of getting
lands to discard and kill your opponent. Play the wood elemental
putting all that land back in your graveyard and then play a recall to
exchange your cards with those lands and then discard to kill
opponent.
shannon
Jim Mason
Jim's Unlimited Out of Print Auction
This is an auction of out of print cards from the Unlimited
Edition. All of the cards are in mint or near mint condition.
This auction will run until August 1.
Bids must be in increments of 50 cents.
Updates will be posted to rec.games.deckmaster and sent out to
bidders via mail as often as I get around to it.
Payment must be by check or money order. Cards will be sent
by the day after money orders are received, I will wait until
checks clear to send out cards.
Cards will be sent in bubble packs with plastic protectors.
Send bids to jimm...@netcom.com with the words: out of print
auction in the subject line.
Some Uncommons were inadvertently left out of the first two
postings, so there are some additional cards now.
The cards, and the bids:
Card Bid Bidder
Rares
Chaos Orb $18 BSmith70
Gauntlet of Might $35 uucp
Mox Pearl $30 egburr
Mox Sapphire $30 egburr
Time Vault $21 jyshen
Lich $25 BSmith
Time Walk $21 uucp
Timetwister $21 jyshen
Natural Selection $20 BSmith70
Raging River $13 mjjeans
Blaze of Glory $20 BSmith70
Uncommons
Icy Manipulator $20 egburr
Copper Tablet $5 MKlein
Jade Statue $6 Minimum
Psionic Blast $5 MKlein
Berserk $9 egburr
Ice Storm $6.5 MKlein
Dwarven Demo Tm $6 Minimum
Consecrate Land $5 BSmith70
Jim Mason
This is an auction of Rare and Uncommon cards from the
Revised Edition. All of the cards are in mint or near mint
condition.
This auction will run until August 1.
Bids for rare cards must be in increments of 25 cents.
Updates will be posted to rec.games.deckmaster and sent out to
bidders via mail as often as I get around to it.
Payment must be by check or money order. Cards will be sent by
the day after money orders are received, I will wait until checks
clear to send out cards.
Cards will be sent in bubble packs with plastic protectors. There
will be a three dollar charge for shipping/handling/insurance.
Send bids to jimm...@netcom.com with the words: revised auction
in the subject line.
The cards, and the bids:
Card Bid Bidder
Rares
Bayou $5.25 ken...@mcs.com
Scrubland $5.25 csho...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
Tundra $5.00 ken...@mcs.com
Underground Sea $5.25 csho...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
Aladdin's Lamp $3 Minimum
Ankh of Mishra $3 Minimum
Flying Carpet $3 Apoca...@revolution.com
Howling Mine $3.50 wb...@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu
Ivory Tower $3 bb...@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu
Jade Monolith $3 Minimum
Meekstone $3 Apoca...@revolution.com
Sunglasses of Urza $3.25 wb...@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu
Contract from Below $3 Apoca...@revolution.com
Darkpact $3.25 Biao...@m.cc.utah.edu
Deathlace $2 Apoca...@revolution.com
Demonic Attorney $3.25 Biao...@m.cc.utah.edu
Lord of the Pit $5.25 csho...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
Nightmare $6 BSmi...@aol.com
Mind Twist $4 BSmi...@aol.com
Zombie Master $3.50 csho...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
Hurkyl's Recall $3 Minimum
Magical Hack $4 BSmi...@aol.com
Pirate Ship $4.25 csho...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
Stasis $4 BSmi...@aol.com
Thoughtlace $2.25 Biao...@m.cc.utah.edu
Cockatrice $3 ez00...@rocky.ucdavis.edu
Gaea's Liege $5 ro...@cloud9.net
Kudzu $3 Minimum
Living Artifact $3 Minimum
Living Lands $3 ro...@cloud9.net
Verduran Enchantress $3.50 ken...@mcs.com
Chaoslace $2 Apoca...@revolution.com
Goblin King $5 ro...@cloud9.net
Magnetic Mountain $2 Minimum
Mana Flare $3 Minimum
Manabarbs $3 Minimum
Mijae Djinn $3 Minimum
Sedge Troll $3 Minimum
Smoke $3 Minimum
Farmstead $3 BSmi...@aol.com
Island Sanctuary $3 Minimum
Personal Incarnation $3 BSmi...@aol.com
Purelace $2 Apoca...@revolution.com
Righteousness $4.25 Biao...@m.cc.utah.edu
Savannah Lions $3 BSmi...@aol.com
Wrath of God $4.25 Biao...@m.cc.utah.edu
Uncommons
Glasses of Urza $1 csho...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
Iron Star $.25 sc...@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Ivory Cup $.25 Biao...@m.cc.utah.edu
Living Wall $.50 Biao...@m.cc.utah.edu
Obsianus Golem $.25 Minimum
Rod of Ruin $.50 ro...@cloud9.net
Sol Ring $1 ro...@cloud9.net
Soul Net $.50 ken...@mcs.com
Throne of Bone $.25 sc...@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Wooden Sphere $.25 sc...@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Animate Dead $.50 csho...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
Bog Wraith $.50 csho...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
Cursed Land $.25 sc...@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Demonic Tutor $1.00 Minimum
Evil Presence $.45 sb...@convex1.TCS.Tulane.EDU
Nettling Imp $.50 K1....@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU
Scavenging Ghoul $.25 Minimum
Sengir Vampire $1.75 csho...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
Simulacrum $.50 csho...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
Control Magic $1 K1....@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU
Counterspell $1 ro...@cloud9.net
Energy Flux $.25 Apoca...@revolution.com
Feedback $.25 sc...@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Phantasmal Forces $.25 sc...@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Siren's Call $.60 sb...@convex1.TCS.Tulane.EDU
Steal Artifact $.50 Apoca...@revolution.com
Wall of Water $.25 csho...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
Water Elemental $.25 csho...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
Channel $.25 sc...@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Desert Twister $.60 sc...@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Instill Energy $.50 ro...@cloud9.net
Ley Druid $.25 sb...@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu
Lure $.25 sb...@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu
Thicket Basilisk $1 bb...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
Tsunami $.25 ez00...@rocky.ucdavis.edu
Burrowing $.25 sb...@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu
Dragon Whelp $.75 sc...@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Dwarven Weaponsmith $.25 Minimum
Fire Elemental $.50 sb...@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu
Goblin Balloon Brig. $.50 K1....@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU
Keldon Warlord $.75 eisenam@ugate
Orcish Oriflamme $.75 K1....@ISUMVS.IASTATE.EDU
Shatterstorm $.75 sb...@convex1.TCS.Tulane.EDU
Stone Giant $.35 sb...@convex1.TCS.Tulane.EDU
Tunnel $.25 Minimum
Uthden Troll $.50 sc...@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Wall of Fire $.25 Minimum
Wall of Stone $.25 Minimum
Black Ward $.25 Minimum
Blue Ward $.25 Biao...@m.cc.utah.edu
Karma $.45 sb...@convex1.TCS.Tulane.EDU
Lance $.25 sb...@convex1.tcs.tulane.edu
Red Ward $.25 sc...@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Resurrection $.25 Minimum
Reverse Polarity $.25 sb...@convex1.TCS.Tulane.EDU
Swords to Plowshares $.75 MattG...@aol.com
Wall of Swords $.75 wb...@polyslo.csc.calpoly.edu
White Knight $.75 sc...@ccat.sas.upenn.edu
Robert C. Kruger
Ever hear of Obelisk of Undoing? Howabout Boomerang? Even Disenchant Regrowth.
BTW Underworld dreams IS sick, but the tools to deal with it are as utilitarian
as they come: Disenchant, Boomerang, Time Elemental, Desert Twister, Mirror
Universe, [not so useful]Tranquility, Northern Paladin, CProt Black is great,
Time twist/Wheel of Fortune/Ancestral... all draw cards at the SAME TIME, not
"Discard entire hand, draw one card seven times" The thing that's real bad
about the Underworld dreams is the cards that help it help everything else too.
When is an ancestral recall bad? You'd be hard pressed to find a situation
where any draw card isn't an asset. I do think that Underworld dreams is bad
truly Chains of Mephistopholes can be far worse.
Tom Wylie
>you then add four living planes and two
>or four tabernacles of pendale vale some dingus eggs and wood
>elementals and then in play you do the following play the wood
>elemental to get rid of your excess land (hopefully all of your forests)
Be careful there... if you play the Dingus Egg before casting Wood
Elemental, then you'll take the Egg damage from all those forests
hitting the graveyard. Owie, stingie, owie...