Ultima V - Hythloth
Josh
Hythloth. How do i get down to level 8? I realize this part of the
game is probably forgotten by anyone who has played it, but i thought i
was just post for the hell of it. I beat Ultima V a while back, but i
can't remember how to get through this dungeon. The problem has to do
with getting from level 5 to level 6. There are only 2 ladders going
down and they are both dead ends. Can anyone get out their old maps and
try to remember this part of the game for me? (like, is there some
secret letter in one of the rooms or something?) By the way, "Des Por"
does not work in Hythloth for some stupid reason (and NO i don't have
the crown activated, not that it should matter).
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Marthos
search the walls around the ladder on level 7. You should find a secret
door that leads to an area called the "Mother Lode Maze" or somesuch
thing.
If you need help getting through that maze thing, let me know and I can
guide you through it.
--
--={U.D.I.C. Code}=--
d+++ e++ N+ T- Om+ U1!234!5!68!K
uC++++ uF++uG+++uLB++uA++ y? a18
"The Quest of the Avatar is Forever"
Telemachos Dragon
BTW, while we are at it.. the greatest treasure room in the game is
found by going down to level 8 on that stair before entering the
secret area :)
Telemachos Dragon d-- e- N++ T-- Om+ U1!2345!6!7!S'!8!A!L!WM
-==(UDIC)==- u++ uC uF- uG uLB uA nC nH+ nP+ nI nPT nS+ nT+
wM- wC- y-- a21
Telemachos' Codin' Corner : http://www.image.dk/~tm
Marthos
the best treasure room in it, of course, you lose karma doing it that
way which isn't very good if you want to be a good avatar.
Telemachos Dragon wrote:
>
> On Thu, 07 Oct 1999 20:06:47 GMT, Marthos <alli...@flash.net> wrote:
>
> BTW, while we are at it.. the greatest treasure room in the game is
> found by going down to level 8 on that stair before entering the
> secret area :)
>
--
Dominus Aurorae
>I could be wrong here, but I thought that Lord British's basement had
>the best treasure room in it, of course, you lose karma doing it that
>way which isn't very good if you want to be a good avatar.
Actually, the really greatest treasure room in U5 is the room full of
dragons and sandtraps on Doom level 7, but by then there's only like 2
or 3 rooms left to pass through and you don't really need the treasure
(except for scrolls and potions which can always be of use)...
The one in Hythloth 8 at the bottom of the ladder has a lot of useful
viewing gems, otherwise an exorbitant item, but that seems to
basically be it.
There is a nice treasure area on Destard 8 in the dragon room (you
basically *have* to go through there to get back from the Amulet,
unless you use a moonstone to make a moongate on the Underworld).
There are a few others, too. I forget which dungeon has it, but
there's a dungeon room with some Guards that provides a fair amount of
treasure.
Also, wandering the NE desert on the surface at night without the
Carpet can be a great source of treasure. Sandtraps always have large
troves; they are fairly easy, if tedious, to kill as long as you do
not let them get close. They do massive damage if you get close,
though, so it's suggested you be level 4-5 for everyone in the party
before you do this. Also have the Crown because the desert at night
tends to contain a disproportionate number of Dragons and Daemons.
By the way, can the dragon cage in the middle of Hythloth 5 be opened
so you can get their treasure? I never managed to open it, perhaps
it's a Push secret?...
Aurelian Dragon
Paulon
Dominus Aurorae!
> By the way, can the dragon cage in the middle of Hythloth 5 be opened
> so you can get their treasure? I never managed to open it, perhaps
> it's a Push secret?...
It is, in part. It's a bit difficult to be certain, given the erratic
nature of missile attacks, but a distance attack, with a bow, crossbow,
or magic axe on the northeast corner pillar containing the dragons seems
to open a small chamber. Note that dragonbreath also counts as a missile
weapon... Pushing on the cross in the chamber opens the cage.
--
Paulon Dragon d++ e- N T+ Om U1!23!4!5!6!7'!S'!8!K!A!L!W!M!
-==(UDIC)==- u++ uC+ uF uG uLB+ uA+ nC nH+ nI nPT nS+ nT+ y?
The Other Codex http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~paulryan/Ultima/Codex.htm
Ask any question you please of the Gods. They do not have to answer.
Ka'a Orto'o, Gnomic Utterances, II XVI
Negate the Spell to Wish Me Well
Maarten van Gestel
all the shrines and the Codex many times, I have all LB's artifacts. But
still I keep getting the message (while sleeping): "You have strayed far
from the path of the Avatar...". So what's up? I know I'm supposed to be
heading down to the Underworld at some point in time, but for some reason
I'm not ready...
-Maarten
Paulon
Been pinching everything in sight to keep the food up have you? Press
<CTRL>K to find out your Karma. To improve it revisit the shrines and make
donations at them, or free prisoners from the sotcks and things in Yew and
Blackthorn's Palace.
Maarten van Gestel
> A Giant Marshmellow Man, walking down your street. Who you gonna call?
> Maarten van Gestel!
Thanks :~)
> Been pinching everything in sight to keep the food up have you?
Sure -- been stealing plenty of food from the fields in the villages around LB's
castle. I guess that would do the trick. Never noticed anyone complaining about
that before.
> Press
> <CTRL>K to find out your Karma. To improve it revisit the shrines and make
> donations at them, or free prisoners from the sotcks and things in Yew and
> Blackthorn's Palace.
I knew I should've bought the manual. This <Ctrl>-K stuff cannot be found on any
walkthrough. Do you know of any site that has the U5 manual / keyboard functions?
Thanks,
-Maarten
Dominus Aurorae
wrote:
>While we're on the subject of U5 -- I've killed all the shadowlords, visited
>all the shrines and the Codex many times, I have all LB's artifacts. But
>still I keep getting the message (while sleeping): "You have strayed far
>from the path of the Avatar...". So what's up? I know I'm supposed to be
>heading down to the Underworld at some point in time, but for some reason
>I'm not ready...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
H
E
R
E
It means your Karma is low.
This does not actually matter to finishing the game, as long as you
already have (from previous play or from hint files) all of the
necessary information. Virtue matters far less in U5 than in U4. I've
read in one book that British won't be able to give you levels if your
Karma goes too low, but this has never happened to me... as long as
you can communicate with British (and it appears you can), you're fine
(as long as you have the info).
Now, prepare all of the most powerful attack spells you can, as well
as at least one Blink spell (vital) and if you want, one Des Por
(convenient). Also, ditch the rest of your party in the Inns. It's a
lot easier to finish the endgame without them.
Also, be at least level 7. Level 8 is even better, but 7 is the
minimum you want to be. Again, this is easier to get without the rest
of your party with you.
Be CERTAIN you have a Magic Axe, Magic Shield, and the Mystic Armour.
(The last of these can be found by searching in a lava cross available
by crossing some mountains near the Underworld exit of Hythloth
(should be directly below the Codex)). Regeneration rings are also of
significant use here. Invisibility rings are useless once you enter
Doom. Protection rings help your AC, but aren't quite as useful as the
Regen rings.
You also need the Magic Carpet from Lord British's castle. Go get it
if you haven't already. (But seeing as you've come this far, you
probably do have it.)
Now, go to Dungeon Shame, at the head of the big river in the NW part
of the map. On level 1 you need to go to the mineshaft ladder reading
"Deepest" (this should be the first corridor to the east if I recall
correctly). Take this all the way down to level 7, then head south and
you'll find the ladder to level 8 dead ahead.
On level 8, once you leave the room (only exit is west), you can
either use a Des Por spell to reach the Underworld, or you can go
west, then south, then west, then south, which takes you into a room
with some rats, orcs, and two-headed folks. Exit this room east.
Search here for a secret door east, then go through this door and the
ladder to the Underworld is here.
In the Underworld, make sure you're healed up, board the Magic Carpet,
go as far east as you can, then In Por east. Cross the lake (you
cannot avoid taking the damage from a bit of water turbulence, but
that should matter but little now) and get to the island in the
middle. Use the Amulet at this point. Enter one of the lava flows
(yeah, it hurts... no way to avoid this) and enter the Darkness at the
middle. You need the Amulet to get anywhere in this Darkness. Go to
the center of the Darkness and there is a dungeon entrance surrounded
by a square of hills to the east and west. Get off the Carpet, pick it
up if you want (there's no more use for it in the game - this is
it...) and camp here and heal up as much as you can again, then yell
VERAMOCOR and enter the cave. As soon as you enter the cave, wear the
Crown and KEEP wearing it!
In Doom, use the Scepter to dissolve any one of the walls leading out
of the first room, and then find your way from there. Be careful. The
greatest treasure trove in the game lies on level 7 of this dungeon,
but that is also the deadliest combat in the game.
One last hint... the Fear spell works absolute wonders here, because
of how U5 implements fear... it seems it can only do it by wounding
all the monsters affected down to about 1hp to cause them to flee,
thus, monsters affected by fear tend to take only one shot to kill,
even Daemons, Sandtraps, and Dragons...
Maarten van Gestel
> It means your Karma is low.
You're right -- I found the <Ctrl-K> on my keyboard and it was down to 18. On
what scale does this work? I've noticed that if I keep entering the same shrine
and pay 900 gp, my karma goes up 9 points every time. How does this work? Is
karma just a number, regardless of what shrine one goes to, or should I visit all
the shrines to pay 900 gp?
The mage in Brittain (I forget his name) won't talk to me because he doesn't
trust my virtue... Is that also because of the karma points?
> [Cut...]
> Now, prepare all of the most powerful attack spells you can, as well
> as at least one Blink spell (vital) and if you want, one Des Por
> (convenient). Also, ditch the rest of your party in the Inns. It's a
> lot easier to finish the endgame without them.
>
> Also, be at least level 7. Level 8 is even better, but 7 is the
> minimum you want to be. Again, this is easier to get without the rest
> of your party with you.
So I should go into the Underworld alone? Leave all my party members, become
level 7 or 8 and finish the game alone? That makes a lot more sense than what
I've been doing upto now. I've killed everything in every dungeon and I'm still
level 6... Those creatures that roam around the land really do not add much, but
maybe if I fought by myself....
I already have the mystic armour, but I found that the mystic weapons are not of
much use in battle. The magic axe / invisibility rings work excellent though!
Thanks for the reply...
-Maarten
Telemachos Dragon
wrote:
>Dominus Aurorae wrote:
>
>> It means your Karma is low.
>
>You're right -- I found the <Ctrl-K> on my keyboard and it was down to 18. On
>what scale does this work? I've noticed that if I keep entering the same shrine
>and pay 900 gp, my karma goes up 9 points every time. How does this work? Is
>karma just a number, regardless of what shrine one goes to, or should I visit all
>the shrines to pay 900 gp?
>
>The mage in Brittain (I forget his name) won't talk to me because he doesn't
>trust my virtue... Is that also because of the karma points?
Yes, I think he will talk to you when your karma reaches 75 (PC
version)
Josh
last week. With the exception of this part of Hythloth, it seemed a
million times easier to beat it this time than last time (maybe because
i had all the answers this time :) ). It's cool to see people still
playing old Ultimas after all these years. I guess that just goes to
show the "timeless" aspect of the Ultima series. Anyway, I have one
more question: When i finished a shrine quest, i got my Karma raised a
little bit, but then when i went back to a shrine that i had already
completed the quest for, it asked me to donate money, which i did.
Then it gave me some message in runic writing. I translated the runic
and it came out to be some word that looked like some kind of password.
Does anyone know what these runic words are for? BTW, the "quest for
the shrines" has no effect on beating the game. You could probably
finished the game with zero Karma, just so you don't worry too much
about that part of the game. I had enough of that Karma stuff from
Ultima IV.
Telemachos Dragon
>BTW, the "quest for
>the shrines" has no effect on beating the game. You could probably
>finished the game with zero Karma, just so you don't worry too much
>about that part of the game. I had enough of that Karma stuff from
>Ultima IV.
I think you'll find youself in trouble when standing in a certain dark
spot without having completed all the shrine-quests.... no WORDS for
how much in trouble actually :)
Josh
t...@image.dk wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:55:58 GMT, Josh <j_m...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >BTW, the "quest for
> >the shrines" has no effect on beating the game. You could probably
> >finished the game with zero Karma, just so you don't worry too much
> >about that part of the game. I had enough of that Karma stuff from
> >Ultima IV.
>
> I think you'll find youself in trouble when standing in a certain dark
> spot without having completed all the shrine-quests.... no WORDS for
> how much in trouble actually :)
Actually, i just beat the game and i only completed two of the shrine
quests (i completed them just for the hell of it) and i had no problem
whatsoever entering Doom or finishing the game. I think they just put
the shrine quests in the game to give the shrines SOME purpose.
Paulon
> Hey, thanks for your help. I got through Hythloth and beat the game
> last week. With the exception of this part of Hythloth, it seemed a
> million times easier to beat it this time than last time (maybe because
> i had all the answers this time :) ). It's cool to see people still
> playing old Ultimas after all these years. I guess that just goes to
> show the "timeless" aspect of the Ultima series.
They're more fun than a lot of modern stuff.
> Anyway, I have one
> more question: When i finished a shrine quest, i got my Karma raised a
> little bit, but then when i went back to a shrine that i had already
> completed the quest for, it asked me to donate money, which i did.
> Then it gave me some message in runic writing. I translated the runic
> and it came out to be some word that looked like some kind of password.
> Does anyone know what these runic words are for?
Shazam IIRC. Not that it means anything.
> BTW, the "quest for
> the shrines" has no effect on beating the game. You could probably
> finished the game with zero Karma, just so you don't worry too much
> about that part of the game. I had enough of that Karma stuff from
> Ultima IV.
Actually that's incorrect. If you don't complete all eight Shrine quests
then the game won't tell you the Word of Power to enter Dungeon Doom.
Granted you don't need to find it out if you already know it, either
from a walkthrough or playing the game previously, but if you don't,
then that's the only way to find out without cheating.
Telemachos Dragon
>> I think you'll find youself in trouble when standing in a certain dark
>> spot without having completed all the shrine-quests.... no WORDS for
>> how much in trouble actually :)
>
>Actually, i just beat the game and i only completed two of the shrine
>quests (i completed them just for the hell of it) and i had no problem
>whatsoever entering Doom or finishing the game. I think they just put
>the shrine quests in the game to give the shrines SOME purpose.
So, how did you know the word of power needed to open the Dungeon Doom
? Been reading walkthroughs, have we ? *grin*
Maarten van Gestel
> [Cut...]You could probably
> finished the game with zero Karma, just so you don't worry too much
> about that part of the game.
Without Karma point, some people will not talk to you, like that mage in
Brittain. If you don't have a walkthrough you will not get certain Words of
Power. Without a walkthrough, the game is a lot more interesting... I
started playing back in 1988. Never finished the game, and now I'm sifting
through my notes and playing a little every now and then. It's great fun.
Had I known about the Karma <Ctrl>-K stuff, I would never have stolen that
much food... I've got plenty of money so I can buy some Karma at the
shrines I suppose. We'll see. At least that "vaguely familiar old man" in
the fire is now telling me I'm doin' OK instead of telling me that I've
strayed so far from the path of the Avatar. I still have a long way to go
before I'm level 8 though.
What does surprise me is that I've hardly ever had to use any magic. Sure,
a cure poison every now and then and a transport, but I've never used the
weapons spells. Anyone have any ideas on that subject? Maybe I'm missing
out on parts of the game.
-Maarten
Litmus Dragon
paul...@InVasAnSpam.ihug.co.nz (Paulon) wrote:
> A Giant Marshmellow Man, walking down your street. Who you gonna
> call?
> Josh!
> > Hey, thanks for your help. I got through Hythloth and beat the
> game
> > last week. With the exception of this part of Hythloth, it
> seemed a
> > million times easier to beat it this time than last time (maybe
> because
> > i had all the answers this time :) ). It's cool to see people
> still
> > playing old Ultimas after all these years. I guess that just
> goes to
> > show the "timeless" aspect of the Ultima series.
> They're more fun than a lot of modern stuff.
I agree, Ultima V is one of my favorite games ever.
Incidentally, I'm working on an engine for making similar games with
updated graphics, wavetable soundcard support, and other nice bells and
whistles. The homepage is http://members.iglou.com/ramona/de.html
/_itmus /)ragon
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Josh
>
> What does surprise me is that I've hardly ever had to use any magic.
Sure,
> a cure poison every now and then and a transport, but I've never used
the
> weapons spells. Anyone have any ideas on that subject? Maybe I'm
missing
> out on parts of the game.
>
> -Maarten
You're right. Magic didn't play a significant role at all. An Nox
(cure poison) and In Por (blink) of course, but other than that, i
didn't use many other spells that often. Des Por ("ladder-down") was
nice and Fear was a good battle spell (but I still only used it when i
fought dragons or a bunch of deamons). I like how magic became a lot
more significant in later Ultimas (particularly Ultima 7). The magic
system in Ultima 8 was cool with the ritual spells or whatever, but it
was also kind of a pain in the ass to set up.
te...@spam.co.uk
* You're right. Magic didn't play a significant role at all. An Nox
* (cure poison) and In Por (blink) of course, but other than that, i
* didn't use many other spells that often. Des Por ("ladder-down") was
* nice and Fear was a good battle spell (but I still only used it when i
* fought dragons or a bunch of deamons). I like how magic became a lot
* more significant in later Ultimas (particularly Ultima 7). The magic
* system in Ultima 8 was cool with the ritual spells or whatever, but it
* was also kind of a pain in the ass to set up.
magic has always seemed a bit redundant/pointless/awkward in the ultimas,
particularly offensive ones, which seemed all the same, but with different
graphics. the only games which made it seem part of the game were the
underworld games' runic style.
|_ _ www.geocities.com/u8v07
(_ (/,(/,| ||_| @frenz.com www.geocities.com/parker_knoll
_)
Dominus Aurorae
wrote:
>What does surprise me is that I've hardly ever had to use any magic. Sure,
>a cure poison every now and then and a transport, but I've never used the
>weapons spells. Anyone have any ideas on that subject? Maybe I'm missing
>out on parts of the game.
I never found much occasion to use the attack-type spells either. The
only place I really used them with any frequency was in Dungeon Doom,
especially the Fear spell helps with its (bug?) effect on making
monsters so easy to kill, and Poison Wind (I didn't have 8th level,
thus Death Cone and Flame Wind weren't available to me in my last go)
is a damn good attack spell, but again, only really useful in certain
circumstances. The only other room I recall using the big guns in were
the Dragon and Daemon rooms in the bottom of Destard.
I did, however, use the lower-level fireball thingamajig (forget its
name, believe it's 3rd Circle) a fair bit near the beginning when I
had difficulty with creatures, though, but a Magic Axe proved somewhat
easier than that.
By the way, what's the XP value for actually defeating a Shadowlord in
combat? I'm not sure I ever have... last time I fought one was at
level 6 in the Lycaeum because someone got in the way when I was
trying to use the Shard... very close battle, I started at full health
with magic axe and mystic armour, and ended the battle (it fled) at
20hp and poisoned :)
Dominus Aurorae
>
>
>>
>> What does surprise me is that I've hardly ever had to use any magic.
>Sure,
>> a cure poison every now and then and a transport, but I've never used
>the
>> weapons spells. Anyone have any ideas on that subject? Maybe I'm
>missing
>> out on parts of the game.
>>
>> -Maarten
>
>You're right. Magic didn't play a significant role at all. An Nox
>(cure poison) and In Por (blink) of course, but other than that, i
>didn't use many other spells that often. Des Por ("ladder-down") was
>nice and Fear was a good battle spell (but I still only used it when i
>fought dragons or a bunch of deamons). I like how magic became a lot
>more significant in later Ultimas (particularly Ultima 7). The magic
>system in Ultima 8 was cool with the ritual spells or whatever, but it
>was also kind of a pain in the ass to set up.
Magic, at least combat magic, isn't very useful in Ultima VII and
Serpent Isle, either... I seem to recall only using the necessary
spells, and a few little tricks such as:
Mass Death is the easiest way to deal with Batlin & Co. at the end of
U7BG.
Create Automaton is a useful way to deal with the equipment-carrying
problem in SI when your party leaves you.
Mark and Recall are very nifty spells in BG. Note that, as I
discovered after wasting a number of reagents on Mark spells, that the
mark appears to be permanent unless you cast another Mark on the stone
:)
(By the way, do the Virtue Stones in BG have any default setting for
Recall?)
Reveal (I *think* that's what the anti-invis spell is called) is very
nice in BG, especially for revealing caltrops, which are otherwise
possible to, but very annoyingly straining on the eyes to, see.
Dominus Aurorae
<maxi...@mtu-net.ru> wrote:
>> fought dragons or a bunch of deamons). I like how magic became a lot
>> more significant in later Ultimas (particularly Ultima 7). The magic
>
>IMHO in U7BG, the only useful spells are Unlock Magic (cannot pass a game
>without it), Seance (the same is true), Telekinesis, Cure, Heal, Create Food
>&
>Restoration.
>As about the battle magic - I always preferred to use conventional weapons
>or
>something like the Hoe of Destruction. Also I did not use Mark/Recall - I
>preferred the carpet.
Mark/Recall's useful in FOV, though, especially with the Test of
Courage when you need to return to the Dragon.
Also M/R's nice for getting to remote islands like Terfin and the
Meditation Retreat that have no Moongate, especially at nighttime when
it's hard to see. Or finally, for the Sphere Generator if you forgot
the hourglass (which should be the case if you're actually following
the plot and not using hint files).
Maxim S. Shatskih
> more significant in later Ultimas (particularly Ultima 7). The magic
IMHO in U7BG, the only useful spells are Unlock Magic (cannot pass a game
without it), Seance (the same is true), Telekinesis, Cure, Heal, Create Food
&
Restoration.
As about the battle magic - I always preferred to use conventional weapons
or
something like the Hoe of Destruction. Also I did not use Mark/Recall - I
preferred the carpet.
Max
Maxim S. Shatskih
> Recall?)
Yes. All colored stones are for appropriate shrines - don't know on white
stone. I don't think it has a default setting to the Shrine of
Spirituality - it will cut
~1/2 of the game's plot.
(BTW - Mark/Recall spells are very tough in usecode implementing them).
> Reveal (I *think* that's what the anti-invis spell is called) is very
> nice in BG, especially for revealing caltrops, which are otherwise
> possible to, but very annoyingly straining on the eyes to, see.
Yes, caltrops are a problem. I remember I had problems with them even when
I first played U7BG in 92.
Max
Maxim S. Shatskih
In U7BG, the Fear spell does the following with all adjacent monsters:
- set "NPC to Attack" to Avatar
- set "Activity" to Combat
- set "Combat Mode" to Fleeing.
Using a dirty diaper does practically the same.
You can perform the same manipulations from the cheat menu.
Max
Maarten van Gestel
> I never found much occasion to use the attack-type spells either. The
> only place I really used them with any frequency was in Dungeon Doom,
> especially the Fear spell helps with its (bug?) effect on making
> monsters so easy to kill, and Poison Wind (I didn't have 8th level,
> thus Death Cone and Flame Wind weren't available to me in my last go)
> is a damn good attack spell, but again, only really useful in certain
> circumstances. The only other room I recall using the big guns in were
> the Dragon and Daemon rooms in the bottom of Destard.
>
I had a number of invisibility rings and magic axes. Wearing the crown helped
with those silly deamons. Being invisible, it was quite easy to kill the
dragons... I don't know if sneakin' up on a dragon kills your karma? The poor
creatures never knew what hit them...
-Maarten
Background Dragon
>
> (By the way, do the Virtue Stones in BG have any default setting for
> Recall?)
The virtue stones are initially marked each for their respective
shrines. The exceptions are the black stone (throne room in Castle
British) and white (provisions shop in britain).
--
PyngThyng
ICQ: 12752445
"The way I see it, logic is just a way of being ignorant by numbers."
Small Gods, Terry Pratchett
"I used to be with it. Then they changed what it was. Now I find it
weird and frightening. And one day, It'll happen to YOU!"
Abe "Grampa" Simpson, The Simpsons
CleV
<maxi...@mtu-net.ru> wrote:
>> (By the way, do the Virtue Stones in BG have any default setting for
>> Recall?)
>
>Yes. All colored stones are for appropriate shrines - don't know on white
>stone. I don't think it has a default setting to the Shrine of
>Spirituality - it will cut
>~1/2 of the game's plot.
>(BTW - Mark/Recall spells are very tough in usecode implementing them).
>
>> Reveal (I *think* that's what the anti-invis spell is called) is very
>> nice in BG, especially for revealing caltrops, which are otherwise
>> possible to, but very annoyingly straining on the eyes to, see.
>
>Yes, caltrops are a problem. I remember I had problems with them even when
>I first played U7BG in 92.
>
> Max
>
>
But surely that was the point of the invisible caltrops? Actually the
reason the magic was good in U7 was the stunning visual effects!