Why bother calling GM's / mule-killer-looter teams
Jennifer Petersen
OSI should add a macro that captures the last 50 lines of your ledger
and sends it in. In a way that it can't be forged. As it is all the "Rules
of Conduct" mean nothing.
I'm sorry you had to try and play through that. This is why I play alone
or with other women.
--
Jennifer Petersen - ICQ#6332431 - Ironwolfe Dragon : -=UDIC=-
Clan O'Gunnach wrote:
> <snip>
> The looting by his friends (Vandis and Blackstone) took a few seconds.
> And then the hazing resumed: "cunt, pussy, now you're no better than a
> newbie". I figure now is the time to turn the other cheek and call the
> GM. Does he _ever_ show? You guessed it. Killed by a mule. Then
> subjected to what in my workplace would get someone fired. And do I
> hear from the GMs after calling 3 times?!? No.
>
> This is almost it. If it weren't for a group of friends known as the
> "knights of ni" (a guild I just joined) and a healthy bank account, I
> would cancel my account tonight. But I have learned my lesson:
>
> Why bother interacting, it only gets you killed..... Besides, I suppose
> that being called a whore/cunt/slut/bitch is the correct way for a woman
> to be treated...
>
> Eryn O'Gunnach
> Destitute Tailor of Yew
Urisk of the murky depths
Not that it matters, but killing animals in town is only illegal if
the animal is tame... As for being PKed- the circumstances don't
matter. It's an awful experience for those of us who actually get
involved in the *roleplaying* experience of UO. It hurts somehow, I
know...
What we really need is some sort of organization. A whereis command
would do more for that than any guild membership. Travelling alone
in Britannia is dangerous, unless you can keep the lowest profile
possible, and run like hell whenever you think you *might* be in
danger...
One question, though, for anyone reading this. I thought it was
impossible to take any damage in towns- I experienced that first
hand by standing in the midst of a flame wall, without taking a
single point of damage. Are there limitations to this rule? What are
they?
--
~^v^~ ::: Urisk ::: ~^v^~
~^v^~< MailTo:jab...@vgernet.net >~^v^~
c h a o s . c o n t r o l
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/4997/
Zaphod
This is, actually, one of the few instances of truly unsportsmanlike,
ungentlemanly, offensive play that bodes ill for humankind in general.
Doubt it has anything to do with sex, tho: equally offensive words would
have been chosen had you been a guy. Unfortunately you have to know
every offensive word to put them in the dictionary.
ps Couldn't agree with you more, with the addition that the ledger
contains some true identifiers (id's) along with the conversation.
Vortex
In article <65anps$89g$2...@gte2.gte.net>, Clan O'Gunnach
says...
> Tonight, I actually encountered a situation where I thought about
> leaving UO.
>
> After entering the tailor shoppe in Magincia (Ches Shard) I saw a man on
> a horse attacking a hind (in TOWN!). So being the good citizen I am, I
> called out "Guards! A crime is occuring!!!". A person named "buba"
> (really, I'm trying not to be rude here) decided that I was "trying to
> get them killed" and that I should "shut the fuck up cunt". I told the
> boy to leave me alone and went about my business. After another stream
> of words you wouldn't hear from a sailor he said "i'll be right back,
> I'm gonna fuck you up". Thinking I was safe I continued to ply my
> tailoring trade...
>
> About ten minutes later a person appeared in the door and shouted "die
> cunt!!!". I hit all names and low and behold he was named "erynsapussy"
> (wow my character name is Eryn O'Gunach, what a surprise). He proceeds
> to throw in some potions (and is imeadiately cut down by the guards). I
> survived the first blast, but the next two felled me.
>
> The looting by his friends (Vandis and Blackstone) took a few seconds.
> And then the hazing resumed: "cunt, pussy, now you're no better than a
> newbie". I figure now is the time to turn the other cheek and call the
> GM. Does he _ever_ show? You guessed it. Killed by a mule. Then
> subjected to what in my workplace would get someone fired. And do I
> hear from the GMs after calling 3 times?!? No.
>
> This is almost it. If it weren't for a group of friends known as the
> "knights of ni" (a guild I just joined) and a healthy bank account, I
> would cancel my account tonight. But I have learned my lesson:
>
> Why bother interacting, it only gets you killed..... Besides, I suppose
> that being called a whore/cunt/slut/bitch is the correct way for a woman
> to be treated...
>
> Eryn O'Gunnach
> Destitute Tailor of Yew
>
>
Quite frankly Eryn I'd snip this post and send it to
every OSI representative you can find. Actually, I'm
going to do just that. From there I'd give it a day or
two and then start making phone calls, on OSI's dime
making sure to directly contact the leader of the UO
management team. I'd demand that these peoples accounts
be cancelled, no two ways about it, and I'd demand
confirmation of this. If you don't have the name of the
characters who did this to you the time and location of
the incident will help in narrowing down the incident
from host logs, so have that info handy.
Quite frankly this is exactly the thing that OSI needs
to be taken to task on. If, as was indicated by the
lack of response by the GM, this is acceptable behavior
on UO and in fact sanctioned by OSI then I think we all
are entitled to know that right away. I will cancel my
account in a heartbeat. Personally I really don't think
it is tho. UO is certainly poorly managed, moreso than
any online product I've ever happened upon. The failure
of a GM to contact you is a perfect example of that.
However it is my opinion that if the proper people were
contacted at Origin, things would happen. I find it
hard to believe that a publically traded company would
want to be facing the flack that could be generated
from incidents such as these...especially if no action
is taken.
Reports to certain regualtory bodies that deal with
restricting access to offensive or profane products are
not something that Origin would want to deal with I
wouldn't think. Hehe, their investors might get a bit
miffed if they were the first major company to receive
an X-rated label for an online game :).
....OK, let the flames from the self-defined,
misappropriated Constitutionalists begin about how
that'd be squashing their rights, blah, blah, blah.
--
Vortex
*********************
tmy...@compusmart.ab.ca
*********************
Clan O'Gunnach
Canticle
All right OSI, enough balking.
This is flagrant, blatant violation of the user agreements. I work for an
ISP, and if they were on that ISP, I know for a fact that kind of behaviour
would not be tolerated. If they were reported to us with that kind of
behaviour, I am certain beyond a shadow of a doubt they would be
terminated.
These are not 'In Character' taunts (which could be justified). These are
abusive bullies making someones gaming experience painful. Their accounts
should be yanked. Period.
What I want to know is WHY you are not responding to these kinds of calls.
Being called names like that by petulent little bullies is not something
where you can turn the other cheek. It hurts. I considered calling a GM
when a PKiller who downed my character taunted me with 'Camel fucker' and
equally derogatory names (I am not Arabic, though the name of my character
has led people to believe otherwise). The only reason I DIDN'T call a GM
was simple...I knew I wouldn't get a response in time to nail the person in
the act, and my journal entry wasn't going to be enough for them to nail
the little child.
Enough is enough Origin. The only reason this behavious takes place is
because they know they can get away with it. Start enforcing your terms,
otherwise they mean absolutely nothing.
Clan O'Gunnach <ogun...@gte.net> wrote in article
<65anps$89g$2...@gte2.gte.net>...
: Tonight, I actually encountered a situation where I thought about
:
:
Randy Starr
I play a female character on the Lake Inferior shard and have run a cross
this many times. Being true to my character I have stood up and smacked a
few little boys around for their remarks. Normally after reminding them of
their eminent death they do apologize forthright.
If you ever need someone to travel with please ask.
Nico (Ls) Minoc & vesper area
Jennifer Petersen <jenn...@jenniferpetersen.com> wrote in article
<3478E7D4...@jenniferpetersen.com>...
> OSI should add a macro that captures the last 50 lines of your ledger
> and sends it in. In a way that it can't be forged. As it is all the
"Rules
> of Conduct" mean nothing.
> I'm sorry you had to try and play through that. This is why I play
alone
> or with other women.
> --
> Jennifer Petersen - ICQ#6332431 - Ironwolfe Dragon : -=UDIC=-
>
> Clan O'Gunnach wrote:
>
> > <snip>
Vortex
In article
<01bcf896$379f4960$6377...@canticle.mbnet.mb.ca>,
Canticle says...
I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that they have a host log
of all verbal activities that happen on their servers.
With a time/server i'd think it could be narrowed down
quite quickly. From there it's just a matter of
pounding through some pages of log notes and hi-
lighting the activities of the affected character.
Eventually you'll happen upon their, er, discourse.
In short tho I agree fully. These pups should be booted
and boted hard. If Origin does otherwise they're
setting a pretty scarey precident.
> All right OSI, enough balking.
>
> This is flagrant, blatant violation of the user agreements. I work for an
> ISP, and if they were on that ISP, I know for a fact that kind of behaviour
> would not be tolerated. If they were reported to us with that kind of
> behaviour, I am certain beyond a shadow of a doubt they would be
> terminated.
>
> These are not 'In Character' taunts (which could be justified). These are
> abusive bullies making someones gaming experience painful. Their accounts
> should be yanked. Period.
>
> What I want to know is WHY you are not responding to these kinds of calls.
> Being called names like that by petulent little bullies is not something
> where you can turn the other cheek. It hurts. I considered calling a GM
> when a PKiller who downed my character taunted me with 'Camel fucker' and
> equally derogatory names (I am not Arabic, though the name of my character
> has led people to believe otherwise). The only reason I DIDN'T call a GM
> was simple...I knew I wouldn't get a response in time to nail the person in
> the act, and my journal entry wasn't going to be enough for them to nail
> the little child.
>
> Enough is enough Origin. The only reason this behavious takes place is
> because they know they can get away with it. Start enforcing your terms,
> otherwise they mean absolutely nothing.
>
--
Vortex
*********************
tmy...@compusmart.ab.ca
*********************
Urisk of the murky depths
The problem can't possibly be that the GMs are too busy to help
everyone- I rarely hear of GMs helping *anyone* (I saw a GM for the
first time, yesterday actually. He seemed to be making idle small
talk with one of the players when I got there.) So if it's not that
they're too busy, what is it? OSI hasn't hired more than 2, and
they're really lazy? The programmers double as GMs on their coffee
breaks?
Or am I off base here, and they do help a lot, but not enough?
Douglas S. Hillman
Vortex (nospam@nospam) wrote:
:
: I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that they have a host log
I'd take that bet in a heartbeat. The storage space for just one server
alone is nearly unimaginable.
Just turn on your text log for a day or two and remember that this only
log the conversations which you overhear.
Doug Hillman Keeper of the UOFAQ
http://homepage.interaccess.com/~dsh/uo/
Ducan the Merchant on Great Lakes
TylusFaust
> I'm sorry you had to try and play through that. This is why I play alone
>or with other women.
Eryn,
Im really sorry you had to go through all the slur business and you
certainly should pursue some sort of response from OSI. At the same time, the
"I only play with women" response seems a little reactionary. The fact is that
you dont know that just because the characters were male, the players were
male. Also, the insults and verbal abuse in UO goes on across the board. Ive
been called some pretty nasty things by some female characters. I just hate the
sort of "women are great", "men cant be trusted" response the the previous post
seems to suggest.
Good luck.
Camus
Robert Stevenson
I wish to add my voice to this outrage that occurred to you, Eryn. I find
this malevolence to be out of place in any situation, real or virtual. OSI
has stated up front that in no way will HATE, RACISM, FACISM, etc, be
tolerated in the world of UO. Even though I feel that OSI is very busy
trying to make UO a fun and playable game, they *have* to address incidents
such as the one you described. At the very least they can designate more
incognito "watchers" that witness such incidents and can tag a player's UO
record so that there can be a followup investigation.
As an alternate point, my character(Shield) is a member of a guild called
Arcane Rangers (Lake Superior). We have an exceptional leader named Rykan
that has set down guidelines of good conduct that make me proud to role play
(look up his web page via Yahoo, use "arcane rangers"). I would offer that
you check us out; join us in adventures; train with us; do good deeds;
commune with nature; and smack little evil doers who warrant it.
Robert
(aka Shield)
Clan O'Gunnach wrote:
> Tonight, I actually encountered a situation where I thought about
> leaving UO.
>
> After entering the tailor shoppe in Magincia (Ches Shard) I saw a man on
> a horse attacking a hind (in TOWN!). So being the good citizen I am, I
> called out "Guards! A crime is occuring!!!". A person named "buba"
> (really, I'm trying not to be rude here) decided that I was "trying to
> get them killed" and that I should "shut the fuck up cunt". I told the
> boy to leave me alone and went about my business. After another stream
> of words you wouldn't hear from a sailor he said "i'll be right back,
> I'm gonna fuck you up". Thinking I was safe I continued to ply my
> tailoring trade...
>
> About ten minutes later a person appeared in the door and shouted "die
> cunt!!!". I hit all names and low and behold he was named "erynsapussy"
> (wow my character name is Eryn O'Gunach, what a surprise). He proceeds
> to throw in some potions (and is imeadiately cut down by the guards). I
> survived the first blast, but the next two felled me.
>
> The looting by his friends (Vandis and Blackstone) took a few seconds.
> And then the hazing resumed: "cunt, pussy, now you're no better than a
> newbie". I figure now is the time to turn the other cheek and call the
> GM. Does he _ever_ show? You guessed it. Killed by a mule. Then
> subjected to what in my workplace would get someone fired. And do I
> hear from the GMs after calling 3 times?!? No.
>
> This is almost it. If it weren't for a group of friends known as the
> "knights of ni" (a guild I just joined) and a healthy bank account, I
> would cancel my account tonight. But I have learned my lesson:
>
> Why bother interacting, it only gets you killed..... Besides, I suppose
> that being called a whore/cunt/slut/bitch is the correct way for a woman
> to be treated...
>
> Eryn O'Gunnach
> Destitute Tailor of Yew
--
To email me, replace "nospam" with Xsteven1, and then replace the X with an
"r".
Sorry for the inconvenience but I must firewall the spam.
Bara E. Minata
Forget GM support. I actually found a GM in the game once, talking
with 2 counsellors. I called them, and then as I walk toward them to
talk about some problems with my character, they DISSAPPEARED.
Multiple pages to the GMs yield no response.
--- snip, snip, snip ---
>The problem can't possibly be that the GMs are too busy to help
>everyone- I rarely hear of GMs helping *anyone* (I saw a GM for the
>first time, yesterday actually. He seemed to be making idle small
>talk with one of the players when I got there.) So if it's not that
>they're too busy, what is it? OSI hasn't hired more than 2, and
>they're really lazy? The programmers double as GMs on their coffee
>breaks?
>
>Or am I off base here, and they do help a lot, but not enough?
Bara E. Minata
bmi...@godshome.org
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes."
- If you can read this, you're overeducated.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Jag
>Forget GM support. I actually found a GM in the game once, talking
>with 2 counsellors. I called them, and then as I walk toward them to
>talk about some problems with my character, they DISSAPPEARED.
>
>Multiple pages to the GMs yield no response.
Yeah this reminds me of going to Worst Buy (Best Buy) and seeing all
the highschool or younger employess they hire sitting around talking
to each other and only 1 guy at the register with 30 people in line.
Not to imply all highschool or younger employees can't be good labor
but the fact they are allowed to do so. In case of GMs it's yet
another example of OSI allowing them to ignore customers.
Jag
Vortex
In article <65ca61$imo$1...@nntp3.interaccess.com>,
Douglas S. Hillman says...
Well, if I was setting up the log I'd be certain to
have filters in place to screen out the NPC traffic.
They, after all, wouldn't be saying anything that I'd
want to hear. This is after all a mechanism for
policing players, the NPC's are not an issue. That's an
obvious assumption and with it in hand you can look at
your Journal and see that the raw data there has
decreased at minimum 50% and possibly as high as 70-
80%.
Granted, even with that in place we are still seemingly
looking at trying to save a pile of information. As you
note, just look at a Journal and see all the traffic.
However, we're talking text here and that is pretty low
demand as far as storage capacity goes. It is done by
other companies. Kesmai runs a host log on AirWarrior,
for example, and has a comparitively large degree of
radio buffer traffic accross its various arenas (again,
once you eliminate the NPC traffic in UO, otherwise UO
would be considerably higher).
As well, I likely wouldn't be looking to permanently
store this stuff, but instead keep it on hand for, say,
30 days then wipe the storage unit and use it again.
Rest assured, it's very doable and I would be extremely
surprised if it isn't being done at present. That would
be pretty irresponsible on Origin's part especially
when one takes into account their claims of a clean
online gaming environment. Without the ability to
provide/ensure that environment, they'd be crazy to
make such a claim imo.
Clan O'Gunnach
I am so mad I could really do some damage now.
After speaking with some friends at work about what happened to me last night, I
decided that I would wait to see what Origin would do about this situation.
Although several of the military men that I work with (I am a DoD Contractor)
had some creative ideas about what to do about this, I decided not to resort to
that kind of thing...
Anyway here is the reply that I got from my message to the Complaint Department:
>Subject: RE: UO Support - (UO2) - Complaint
> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:50:21 -0600
> From:UOSupport <sup...@owo.com>
> To: "'ogun...@gte.net'" <ogun...@gte.net>
>
>Let a game master know about the language. Be sure when you page a
>game master to include the subject line. Also when you page them more
>than once it moves you to the bottom of the list. The game masters
>are busy, but will respond if it is something they can solve.
>
>OriginCS
Does anyone else think that this is a solution? Neither did I. Did they even
bother reading my mail?!? Here's the deal: I am replying to tell them of my
extreme displeasure at this. If my second message recieves the same ignorant
response, then I get nasty. This sounds like the kind of thing that the news
would love to hear about.... Perhaps _they_ can solve this.
Eryn O'Gunnach
Angry Tailor of Yew
Carolina Dragon
In article <65anps$89g$2...@gte2.gte.net>, ogun...@gte.net says...
>Why bother interacting, it only gets you killed..... Besides, I suppose
>that being called a whore/cunt/slut/bitch is the correct way for a woman
>to be treated...
No, its not. And if Origin's anti-harassment statement has any backbone
behind it, those players will be gone. I'd be calling the home office (and
not talking to tech support). We don't need players like that.
buba, Vandis and Blackstone - hmmm. Don't know that I'll ever run into them
since I'm on the other side of the world, but if I do, it will be
interesting...
Uther
Carolina Dragon
In article <3478E7D4...@jenniferpetersen.com>,
jenn...@jenniferpetersen.com says...
> OSI should add a macro that captures the last 50 lines of your ledger
>and sends it in. In a way that it can't be forged. As it is all the "Rules
>of Conduct" mean nothing.
>or with other women.
I'm sorry Jennifer, but I have to say something here. Women are not the only
ones that cringe at Eryn's story. There are at least one or two respectable
men out there too.
Your statement condemns all men for the actions of 3 baboons. I find your
attitude toward it at least as objectionable as theirs. They might not know
how bad what they're doing is - you definately do since you've made a
conscious decision.
Yes, I am pissed - both at what Eryn had to put up with and with what you've
just said.
Uther
Tobias
Just like Kari last night, she was hiding in the Tailor shop (can't trust
thieves, they are everywhere) and some guy walks by and says: "Stupid Hiding
Cunt Bitch".
Um, does this qualify as sexual harrasment?
Heh,heh,heh...
OSI you are fucked when this sort of thing does hit a court...
--
Rick A. - ICQ 163548
(appearing in Ultima Online/Lake Superior as Tobias Esque)
Visit my website at www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/5968
Vortex wrote in message ...
>In article
><01bcf896$379f4960$6377...@canticle.mbnet.mb.ca>,
>Canticle says...
>
>I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that they have a host log
>of all verbal activities that happen on their servers.
>--
>Vortex
>
>*********************
>tmy...@compusmart.ab.ca
>*********************
end
Jennifer Petersen
I wrote that part, not Erin.
I would have prefered to not have to write a thesis but:
Not all women are great, not all men are bad. Not all women are women, not all
men are men. Not all players are role players. Hell, not all role players are role
players for that matter.
I've actually met a few men in the game who where nice. I helped one yesterday
who was killed by a ratman. Gave him one of my gorilla's (they are all female, is
that ok?) and an axe.
One small point. If a woman is yelling "like a guy", she probably is a guy.
(sorry, had to say it <g>)
--
Jennifer Petersen - ICQ#6332431 - Ironwolfe Dragon : -=UDIC=-
Jennifer Petersen
Don't say that. Someone will yell at you ;-)
--
Jennifer Petersen - ICQ#6332431 - Ironwolfe Dragon : -=UDIC=-
rend*xxx*@ibm.net wrote:
> <snip>
> (any female that would act
> like that is not a woman, but for some reason, this behavior seems to be
> mostly male...)
>
> Gil'lomion
> LS server
Ashley Dunn
Server logs are not the answer. Just give people the ability to make a quick
screen shot. Snap the offending action and mail to a GM.
This technique is used on Meridian 59. It works...not all the time, but good
enough to nail people every now and then.
David Zeiger wrote in message ...
>On Mon, 24 Nov 1997 11:54:48 -0700, Vortex <nospam@nospam> wrote:
>>Granted, even with that in place we are still seemingly
>>looking at trying to save a pile of information. As you
>>note, just look at a Journal and see all the traffic.
>>However, we're talking text here and that is pretty low
>>demand as far as storage capacity goes.
>
>I don't see space as the main issue here. I suspect the bottleneck
>would come from server I/O. With the servers as overloaded as
>they are, I don't think turning on a function that is the rough
>equivelent of a decent-sized usenet news server is going to be
>something they're jumping at.
>
>--
>David Zeiger dze...@the-institute.net
Quarex
Tobias didst engrave in the rec.games.computer.ultima.online tablet:
| Um, does this qualify as sexual harrasment?
What I thoroughly enjoyed was being at the Bank in Britain and having
two characters [named <something> the Jedi and another guy walk up and
repeatedly call me a "nigger", then walk off laughing as I called the
GM. Needless to say, the GMs could not give less of a fuck that their
principle rule was being violated, and I have no doubt that these two
players were never even spoken to about their flagrant disregard of
this rule. *sigh*
Quarex
--
[ Ultima Dragons, Kosmic Free Music Foundation, National Thespian Society,
[ IRQ Conflict Resolving, and Amorphis for President '00. That's what I do.
[ E-Mail: Quarex at ilstu dot edu | WWW: http://odin.cmp.ilstu.edu/~amhunt
Mark David
brian...@unc.edu (Carolina Dragon) wrote:
>Yes, I am pissed - both at what Eryn had to put up with and with what you've
>just said.
Sigh. You just have to love nerds; so earnestly they try to---forget
it :)
Anyway, I thought the story was hilarious (it's the way she tells it).
You can't help but love the 13-year-old PKs, too :)
Mark David -- Super Genius! | "Just because it says DVD does not mean
mad...@achilles.net | the quality is there."
dl...@freenet.carleton.ca | --David Garber, Senior VP, LIVE Ent.
Mark David
"rend*xxx*@ibm.net" <rend*xxx*@ibm.net> wrote:
>Any male that acts like that is not a man. (any female that would act
>like that is not a woman, but for some reason, this behavior seems to be
>mostly male...)
And the behavior of jumping to the defense of the opposite sex while
making grand statements of moral consequence has it's own exclusive,
rarely-deviated-from sexual relationships.
Clan O'Gunnach
Mark David wrote:
> brian...@unc.edu (Carolina Dragon) wrote:
>
> >Yes, I am pissed - both at what Eryn had to put up with and with what you've
> >just said.
>
> Sigh. You just have to love nerds; so earnestly they try to---forget
> it :)
It's alright m'lord, it's not your fault all you have to do is sit in your dorm
and play with your college funded porn link (read: cheap ethernet). I'm sure you
are the strapping man that you appear to be (and that I turn down in nightclubs
on a regular basis....).
> Anyway, I thought the story was hilarious (it's the way she tells it).
> You can't help but love the 13-year-old PKs, too :)
I'm starting to enjoy the posts by the kids hiding in college! Ya gotta love
them!!! <sarcasm mode: offline>
Wyse Terminal
Actually I seem to remember OSI saying that one server takes 36 GB which
is hardly unbelievable. However, what you are saying is true, to keep
logs of what 3000 people say for any great length of time would be
expensive spacewise, but I don't see any reason that they couldn't keep
an hour's worth of conversation. Assuming that they gave top priority
to calls of this sort, and they had easy access to the logs by GM's implemented
a hours worth of logs would be more than enough to bag those little pricks ;)
Also remember that plain text lends itself well to compression, and therefore,
the amount of it that can be stored is greater than you might think.
All in all, assuming they don't already have this, I'd think it'd be worth
the time and effort to implement this.
On a side note, UO support seems to respond faster at about 1600cst, of course
it could just be that they respond quickly to requests on server requirements.
In article <65ca61$imo$1...@nntp3.interaccess.com>, Douglas S. Hillman wrote:
>
> I'd take that bet in a heartbeat. The storage space for just one server
>alone is nearly unimaginable.
> Just turn on your text log for a day or two and remember that this only
>log the conversations which you overhear.
>
> Doug Hillman Keeper of the UOFAQ
> http://homepage.interaccess.com/~dsh/uo/
> Ducan the Merchant on Great Lakes
>
--
Tony Llopis
Flashnet Systems Administration
lesser....@flash.net
Apathy isn't the problem, It's the Solution.
David Zeiger
PsychoKick
In article <65de08$lka$1...@gte1.gte.net>, ogun...@gte.net says...
Well, well, if it ain't "Spuergenius" (sic, by his own spelling)
himself, the rabid laserdisc worshipper, pathetic tape-stealing fanboy, and
general pain in the ass. His past Usenet behavior indicates an insecure lout so
starved for attention he'll get it by trolling. Don't bother trying to have
anything resembling a reasonable conversation with this guy.
--
********PsychoKick******** "I have to dream big. I only have
*Mad Animator in Training* time to get half of it done."
*And Professional Slacker* -Solomon Short
************************** "A Season for Slaughter"
Mark David
Clan O'Gunnach <ogun...@gte.net> wrote:
>It's alright m'lord, it's not your fault all you have to do is sit in your dorm
>and play with your college funded porn link (read: cheap ethernet). I'm sure you
>are the strapping man that you appear to be (and that I turn down in nightclubs
>on a regular basis....).
Heh. I'm trying to figure out if being turned down by a guy is a bad
or a good thing...
David Zeiger
On Mon, 24 Nov 1997 20:17:19 -0800, Ashley Dunn <asd...@nytimes.com> wrote:
>Server logs are not the answer. Just give people the ability to make a quick
>screen shot. Snap the offending action and mail to a GM.
Easily forgable.
--
David Zeiger dze...@the-institute.net
Vortex
In article
<FF1F080447D44D8B.5B4782205A7E8ACC.E8E18863F97BB898@lib
rary-proxy.airnews.net>, David Zeiger says...
> I don't see space as the main issue here. I suspect the bottleneck
> would come from server I/O. With the servers as overloaded as
> they are, I don't think turning on a function that is the rough
> equivelent of a decent-sized usenet news server is going to be
> something they're jumping at.
>
> --
> David Zeiger dze...@the-institute.net
>
In all honesty I don't think the load on the server
would be/is that great in running a log...providing
it's done properly and you've got the right equipment
to start with. If, alternatively, you don't have the
equipment or ability to put together such a tool then
they'd best be careful on the claims they make
regarding how "clean" their environment is. Without a
host log I don't see how any of this stuff can be
policed short of the odd screenshot from a customer. If
that's how they plan to monitor their product they best
go easy on the claims of it conforming to _any_
guidelines.
Joydeb Ray
It'd be even easier to log only player-typed conversation, thereby also
omitting the large volume of action-generated responses. Noone could
seriously argue that the volume of typed conversation is too high, when
a typical response to a "Hail" is fleeing in terror!
A screen shot can of course be taken (and then ignored by GM's), but
that requires additional presence of mind, knowledge, and careful action
by the abused - again no excuse for OSI's apparent omission of logging.
Conversation logging should be a trivial effort doable by a novice
programmer. Activity logging in addition should be a part of any
serious program - with techniques available to make the volume bearable,
and considering the low cost of secondary storage these days.
IMO, UO has had some very poor balance problems for a program so long
into production. Perhaps some of that might also have been avoided
using logging techniques.
Vortex (tmy...@compusmart.ab.ca) wrote:
>
> Well, if I was setting up the log I'd be certain to
> have filters in place to screen out the NPC traffic.
> They, after all, wouldn't be saying anything that I'd
> want to hear. This is after all a mechanism for
> policing players, the NPC's are not an issue. That's an
> obvious assumption and with it in hand you can look at
> your Journal and see that the raw data there has
> decreased at minimum 50% and possibly as high as 70-
> 80%.
[snip]
Carolina Dragon
In article
<928AB117A9341C43.B47A59C6...@library-proxy.airnews.net>
, bmi...@godshome.org says...
>
>Forget GM support. I actually found a GM in the game once, talking
>with 2 counsellors. I called them, and then as I walk toward them to
>talk about some problems with my character, they DISSAPPEARED.
Again, doesn't surprise me in the least. You do know that most of the
programmers are former MUD coders, right? Well, on every mud I've ever seen,
GMs and Counsellors are just god characters for helping out their buddies.
Why expect them to change 15 years of habit just because its a full time job
now?
OSI needs to revamp the entire GM/Counsellor system. The ones that appear on
production servers must be professionals, not someone just interested in
"hanging out."
Uther -=* UDIC Carolina Dragon *=-
UO/Ches
Wags
Clan O'Gunnach wrote:
<snip>
> Why bother interacting, it only gets you killed..... Besides, I suppose
> that being called a whore/cunt/slut/bitch is the correct way for a woman
> to be treated...
>
> Destitute Tailor of Yew
Have strength Eryn! We can only hope that OSI will deal with this issue.
Well actually we can hope and send them tons of email demanding that they
address the issue. I think that perhaps we should create a petition that
include the account names of all the sympathizers. If we all demand that
OSI ban these players, or threaten to revoke are $10 tithe and call the
press, I think OSI will listen. Sign my upcoming petition thread.
Wags
Tobias Esque
SLAM
He got to use 'erudite'! Good shot Gil!
And yes, isn't it amazing how bizarre some folks writing is? I'm sure there
was a meaning in mind when that contorted paragraph was written, but it sure
didn't come out right...
:-)
--
~^~ Rick A. (ICQ163548) ~^~
Visit my website at www.geocities.com/area51/zone/5968
"It only seems kinky the FIRST time you do it."
rend*xxx*@ibm.net wrote in message <347AE2...@ibm.net>...
>X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>Mark David wrote:
>>
>> "rend*xxx*@ibm.net" <rend*xxx*@ibm.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Any male that acts like that is not a man. (any female that would act
>> >like that is not a woman, but for some reason, this behavior seems to be
>> >mostly male...)
>>
>> And the behavior of jumping to the defense of the opposite sex while
>> making grand statements of moral consequence has it's own exclusive,
>> rarely-deviated-from sexual relationships.
>
>Identifying the superfluous words gives us:
>> And the behavior of jumping to the defense of the opposite sex [while
>> making grand statements of moral consequence] has it's own {exclusive,
>> rarely-deviated-from} sexual relationships.
>
>Stripping away the superfluous words leaves us with:
>> And the behavior of jumping to the defense of the opposite sex has it's
own sexual > relationships.
>
>Just what the heck is that supposed to mean? (rhetorical question, from
>the few posts of yours I've read I have no interest in your silly
>opinions)
>
>How about translating your paragraph into english? (again, rhetorical,
>and sarcastic) Your attempt to sound erudite has resulted in nonsense.
>Try formulating a complete thought, then express it in plain engish, eh?
>
>I'm not even going to ask what "...grand statements of moral
>consequence..." means, or what is has to do with my generalizaton about
>behavior and gender, for fear of having to read more of your nonsense.
>
>Gil'lomion
>LS server
end
Clan O'Gunnach
I told myself that I wouldn't reply to your tripe anymore... But in this case: ummmm,
have you check my webpage? Yes it's my roommate's account, but guess what, female
hands are typing this message!!! Closest you probably get to them....
Eryn O'Gunnach
Susan
>> I'm sorry you had to try and play through that. This is why I play alone
>>or with other women.
>I'm sorry Jennifer, but I have to say something here. Women are not the only
>ones that cringe at Eryn's story. There are at least one or two respectable
>men out there too.
>
>Your statement condemns all men for the actions of 3 baboons. I find your
>attitude toward it at least as objectionable as theirs. They might not know
>how bad what they're doing is - you definitely do since you've made a
>conscious decision.
>
>Yes, I am pissed - both at what Eryn had to put up with and with what you've
>just said.
>
>Uther
What you say Uther is correct too. There are plenty of good UO
male and female players out there but we can condemn the entire game
for the few spoiled apples if we feel like it. I have recently done
some email with Richard Bartle who Designer Dragon has referenced in
the past. I am optimistic (believe it or not) that OSI will balance
UO out and that it will ultimately become an interesting graphic MUD -
the first and best of its kind. But in the mean time there are
imbalances to deal with that women more then men do not have the
stomach for IMO. We may all owe the PKer something though in the long
run because it will largely be through their efforts to disrupt and
cheat that OSI will be able to stabilize and balance the shards for
all of us if they have the strength and perseverance.
* Susan * <Sus...@fix.net>
John Hasemeier
>Server logs are not the answer. Just give people the ability to make a
quick
>screen shot. Snap the offending action and mail to a GM.
>
good
>enough to nail people every now and then.
This would be a really appreciated addition to the client!!
Faramir
In article <65fki4$b6c$1...@ha1.rdc1.fl.home.com>,
The "PrintScreen" key works pretty well for this. It copies the current
screen into the Paste buffer (paste into Paint accessory). Alt-PrintScreen
does the same for a window.
Unfortunately this is not really good proof of anything since I doubt the
server knows what your screen looks like (that's handled by the client) and
anything that the server doesn't control is suspect. Someone could easily
modify the picture before sending it to the GM to make it look like some
innocent person was using abusive language, etc.
-Faramir
--
Scot Salmon, PXI/VXI Software Engineer
National Instruments, Austin, TX
scot....@natinst.com
101010, 222, 52, ...
Vortex
In article <347A85...@interlog.com>, Joydeb Ray
says...
> It'd be even easier to log only player-typed conversation, thereby also
> omitting the large volume of action-generated responses. Noone could
> seriously argue that the volume of typed conversation is too high, when
> a typical response to a "Hail" is fleeing in terror!
>
> A screen shot can of course be taken (and then ignored by GM's), but
> that requires additional presence of mind, knowledge, and careful action
> by the abused - again no excuse for OSI's apparent omission of logging.
>
> Conversation logging should be a trivial effort doable by a novice
> programmer. Activity logging in addition should be a part of any
> serious program - with techniques available to make the volume bearable,
> and considering the low cost of secondary storage these days.
>
> IMO, UO has had some very poor balance problems for a program so long
> into production. Perhaps some of that might also have been avoided
> using logging techniques.
>
All very valid points, I agree fully.
Vortex
In article
<MPG.ee30d71a...@news.vgernet.net>, Urisk of
the murky depths says...
> The problem can't possibly be that the GMs are too busy to help
> everyone- I rarely hear of GMs helping *anyone* (I saw a GM for the
> first time, yesterday actually. He seemed to be making idle small
> talk with one of the players when I got there.) So if it's not that
> they're too busy, what is it? OSI hasn't hired more than 2, and
> they're really lazy? The programmers double as GMs on their coffee
> breaks?
>
> Or am I off base here, and they do help a lot, but not enough?
>
> --
> ~^v^~ ::: Urisk ::: ~^v^~
> ~^v^~< MailTo:jab...@vgernet.net >~^v^~
> c h a o s . c o n t r o l
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Metro/4997/
>
Hehe, quite frankly, I really don't know. You're
reasoning might be right on the mark. alternatively
there might be other issues at work here that neither
of us are thinking of...I honestly don't know.
I can concur that I've yet to hear of a GM helping
anyone promptly; an hour wait seems to be about the
least one shoudl expect.
CLM
Couldn't the journal log itself be saved on the client as a text file or
something?
Mark David
Clan O'Gunnach <ogun...@gte.net> wrote:
>I told myself that I wouldn't reply to your tripe anymore... But in this case: ummmm,
>have you check my webpage? Yes it's my roommate's account, but guess what, female
>hands are typing this message!!! Closest you probably get to them....
Ah, I see.
Of course you are aware that a statement of belonging to the female
sex on the internet is like Clinton saying he never inhaled--it's
possible, but highly unlikely. And if Clinton had a reefer hanging
from his mouth while making that assertion...
Brad Stark
Get a screen capture of their language and send it to UO. Yes... there is
an obscenity filter, but this sounds more like harassment than ones
personal choice of words.
John Hasemeier
>The "PrintScreen" key works pretty well for this. It copies the current
>screen into the Paste buffer (paste into Paint accessory). Alt-PrintScreen
>does the same for a window.
>
>Unfortunately this is not really good proof of anything since I doubt the
>server knows what your screen looks like (that's handled by the client) and
>anything that the server doesn't control is suspect. Someone could easily
>modify the picture before sending it to the GM to make it look like some
>innocent person was using abusive language, etc.
If a screenshot were to be added to the client they could make it save in a
proprietary format where only they can decode the image(s).
Jennifer Petersen
(cue audience clapping) DING DING - Good answer! It should include the last 20
lines or so of the journel too.
--
Jennifer Petersen - ICQ#6332431 - Ironwolfe Dragon : -=UDIC=-
Vortex
In article <65cu7l$n57$1...@gte2.gte.net>, Clan O'Gunnach
says...
> I am so mad I could really do some damage now.
>
> After speaking with some friends at work about what happened to me last night, I
> decided that I would wait to see what Origin would do about this situation.
> Although several of the military men that I work with (I am a DoD Contractor)
> had some creative ideas about what to do about this, I decided not to resort to
> that kind of thing...
>
> Anyway here is the reply that I got from my message to the Complaint Department:
>
>
>
> >Subject: RE: UO Support - (UO2) - Complaint
> > Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:50:21 -0600
> > From:UOSupport <sup...@owo.com>
> > To: "'ogun...@gte.net'" <ogun...@gte.net>
> >
> >Let a game master know about the language. Be sure when you page a
> >game master to include the subject line. Also when you page them more
> >than once it moves you to the bottom of the list. The game masters
> >are busy, but will respond if it is something they can solve.
> >
> >OriginCS
>
> Does anyone else think that this is a solution? Neither did I. Did they even
> bother reading my mail?!? Here's the deal: I am replying to tell them of my
> extreme displeasure at this. If my second message recieves the same ignorant
> response, then I get nasty. This sounds like the kind of thing that the news
> would love to hear about.... Perhaps _they_ can solve this.
>
> Eryn O'Gunnach
> Angry Tailor of Yew
>
I think you're on the right track. I would certainly
inform various media outlets including Rueters and
Associated Press as well as some computer industry
magazines. Some letters to the editors of the latter
would be an excellent start.
I would also contact your local Congress people
directly as well as any local government agencies that
deal with regulating profanity, etc in these sorts of
areas. Quite often you may find an ally here. There's
big political point sin cleaning up profanity in
any venue, especially on that is directed toward, at
least partially, our children (be sure to stress
that point too). This is a bit of a grey area as far as
regulatory issues are concerned tho, it's a private
operation after all. However, it's also a private
operation that advertises, in effect, a "Family" rating
and in turn makes little effort to provide that. It
truly is R-rated, and that might an issue of concern to
your local representative.
That having been said another idea, especially if
you've got any lawyer friends, would be to start a
legal claim based on the above (i.e. you've been
offended/insulted etc) and press charges based on that.
This may be a bit beyond what you want to do, but I
through it out because it will certainly get OSI's
attention and will also get the attention of the media
and the market. If you're going this route I definitely
wouldn't say anything else to OSI. Simply file your
papers at the local courthouse and OSI will be served
in due course. They'll definitely be contacting your
solicitor in due course.
I'm not that glad to see they've got you stirred up,
but I really had a feeling that they would eventually.
Origin has always had one of the worst customer support
devisions in the industry and they are renowned for
their canned responses to customer's problems. I sent
them a copy of your original post too and all I got
back was one of their packaged responses that it would
be forwarded on to the design team, nothing more.
Rest assured, OSI will do absolutely nothing about this
if pressure is not kept on them. Best of luck!
Karl Schlipf
For what it's worth I completely back you on this. PKing is bad enough, but some
players are getting away with stuff that is directly against the minimal rules of
the game. Sexist flaming, especially on top of killing your character, borders on
harrassment in real life, let alone in a game environment. I would like to see
players like this removed from the game permanently. These are the kinds of players
who add NOTHING to the game. If it can be argued that PKers add something, I would
argue that these guys give PKers a bad name. I forget who said it but the quote
"waste of skin" comes to mind.
Karl, the hypocritical yet protective
Clan O'Gunnach wrote:
> I am so mad I could really do some damage now.
>
> After speaking with some friends at work about what happened to me last night, I
> decided that I would wait to see what Origin would do about this situation.
> Although several of the military men that I work with (I am a DoD Contractor)
> had some creative ideas about what to do about this, I decided not to resort to
> that kind of thing...
>
> Anyway here is the reply that I got from my message to the Complaint Department:
>
> >Subject: RE: UO Support - (UO2) - Complaint
> > Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 13:50:21 -0600
> > From:UOSupport <sup...@owo.com>
> > To: "'ogun...@gte.net'" <ogun...@gte.net>
> >
> >Let a game master know about the language. Be sure when you page a
> >game master to include the subject line. Also when you page them more
> >than once it moves you to the bottom of the list. The game masters
> >are busy, but will respond if it is something they can solve.
> >
> >OriginCS
>
> Does anyone else think that this is a solution? Neither did I. Did they even
> bother reading my mail?!? Here's the deal: I am replying to tell them of my
> extreme displeasure at this. If my second message recieves the same ignorant
> response, then I get nasty. This sounds like the kind of thing that the news
> would love to hear about.... Perhaps _they_ can solve this.
>
> Eryn O'Gunnach
> Angry Tailor of Yew
>
> > Clan O'Gunnach wrote:
> >
> > > Tonight, I actually encountered a situation where I thought about
> > > leaving UO.
> > >
> > > After entering the tailor shoppe in Magincia (Ches Shard) I saw a man on
> > > a horse attacking a hind (in TOWN!). So being the good citizen I am, I
> > > called out "Guards! A crime is occuring!!!". A person named "buba"
> > > (really, I'm trying not to be rude here) decided that I was "trying to
> > > get them killed" and that I should "shut the fuck up cunt". I told the
> > > boy to leave me alone and went about my business. After another stream
> > > of words you wouldn't hear from a sailor he said "i'll be right back,
> > > I'm gonna fuck you up". Thinking I was safe I continued to ply my
> > > tailoring trade...
> > >
> > > About ten minutes later a person appeared in the door and shouted "die
> > > cunt!!!". I hit all names and low and behold he was named "erynsapussy"
> > > (wow my character name is Eryn O'Gunach, what a surprise). He proceeds
> > > to throw in some potions (and is imeadiately cut down by the guards). I
> > > survived the first blast, but the next two felled me.
> > >
> > > The looting by his friends (Vandis and Blackstone) took a few seconds.
> > > And then the hazing resumed: "cunt, pussy, now you're no better than a
> > > newbie". I figure now is the time to turn the other cheek and call the
> > > GM. Does he _ever_ show? You guessed it. Killed by a mule. Then
> > > subjected to what in my workplace would get someone fired. And do I
> > > hear from the GMs after calling 3 times?!? No.
> > >
> > > This is almost it. If it weren't for a group of friends known as the
> > > "knights of ni" (a guild I just joined) and a healthy bank account, I
> > > would cancel my account tonight. But I have learned my lesson:
Vortex
In article <347be65f...@news3.ibm.net>, Flash!
says...
> On Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:41:11 -0700, nospam@nospam (Vortex) wrote:
>
> >Quite frankly this is exactly the thing that OSI needs
> >to be taken to task on. If, as was indicated by the
> >lack of response by the GM, this is acceptable behavior
> >on UO and in fact sanctioned by OSI then I think we all
> >are entitled to know that right away. I will cancel my
> >account in a heartbeat. Personally I really don't think
> >it is tho. UO is certainly poorly managed, moreso than
> >any online product I've ever happened upon. The failure
> >of a GM to contact you is a perfect example of that.
>
> i've had worse said and done to me and failed to become hysterical
> about it...and doubt i'd get the same response from the group if i
> aired it...why all the concern when it's a woman?
>
>
>
It's tough to respond to a statement that isn't based
on anything. If you had posted these events and not
received a response we might have something to discuss.
But you didn't, so I really can't comment as your point
isn't based upon anything conclusive, only a
supposition.
As well, if these sorts of things don;t offend you
that's fine. You're certainly entitled to simply shrug
it off. I have no problem with that. However, if
someone standing next to you does get offended, that
person certainly has grounds to demand action. OSI's
user agreement has provided those grounds. The fact
that many here want them to actually stand by it is a
testament to the support that is behind it.
harlequin
I thought flame was an effective way to attack trolls. Guess usenet and
RPGs have different rules for handling these creatures :)
rend*xxx*@ibm.net wrote
>This is obviously a troll. Ignore him and he'll hopefully go away.
>
>Gil'lomion
>LS server
>
>Flash! wrote:
>>
>> If someone standing next to me is offended by something and I'm
>> not...they are most likely lying about what bothers them...or
>> psychotic....face it...people lie about what offends them, because
>> they gain a little power from it. Look at how much power the original
>> poster has already gained from their victimization...all the Alan Alda
>> types rally round the bra strap...
Jennifer Keenan
Myabe I'm missing something, but why can't someone just press <Print Screen>
then paste the results into Paint, PaintShop Pro, Photoshop, etc.? Is there
something on Meridian 59's utility that is different from the results of
this procedure?
Jennifer Keenan
Seattle, Washington
jennife...@sierra.com
http://www.geocities.com/~jenkeen
John Hasemeier wrote in message <65fki4$b6c$1...@ha1.rdc1.fl.home.com>...
Douglas S. Hillman
Jennifer Keenan (jennife...@sierra.com) wrote:
: Myabe I'm missing something, but why can't someone just press <Print Screen>
: then paste the results into Paint, PaintShop Pro, Photoshop, etc.? Is there
: something on Meridian 59's utility that is different from the results of
: this procedure?
:
: Jennifer Keenan
The problem is that this could fairly easily be faked by the malicious
hordes with a grudge to bear and plenty of time on their hands. I don't
know if Meridian has a way to validate it, but any serious reporting
procedure needs a foolproof way to legitimize the complaint.
Doug Hillman Keeper of the UOFAQ
http://homepage.interaccess.com/~dsh/uo/
Ducan the Merchant on Great Lakes
harlequin
CLM wrote in message <65eh1t$djc$1...@juliana.sprynet.com>...
>Couldn't the journal log itself be saved on the client as a text file or
>something?
>
Add the following line to your configuration file to save the log file as
a text file JournalSaveFile=Journal.Txt