Pker's and the like
Susan Shubert
I am truly surprised at all of the whining and crying that goes on here over
"such and such did that" , "so and so is that". Give it up. This is
supposed to be a game...a world of fantasy which people are using to escape
and enjoy.
So what if there are some PK'ers...did you honestly expect this to be a
Utopia? Granted, I don't like getting PK'ed any more than anyone else
does...yet the existence of evil characters who prey on others adds
excitement to this game.
If you guys want to go play a Utopia game...go play Realm. If you want to
play a good game and take all the good with the bad...then stick with this
game and quit your whining & puling.
Bobbin
Dundee
>I am truly surprised at all of the whining and crying that goes on here over
>"such and such did that" , "so and so is that". Give it up. This is
>supposed to be a game...a world of fantasy which people are using to escape
>and enjoy.
What the heck happened? Suddenly the newgroup is inundated with
people whining about non-PKers.
>So what if there are some PK'ers...
*LOL* Some?!
>does...yet the existence of evil characters who prey on others adds
>excitement to this game.
Time for the semi-official list of PK rationalizations again. Here's
a hint, we've heard it all before, and none of it excuses antisocial
behavior.
>play a good game and take all the good with the bad...then stick with this
>game and quit your whining & puling.
The "whining" has lead to the rep system, bounties, stat loss for
murderers, bulletin boards reporting murders in the area, etc. - the
game is better for it.
Whining about whiners hasn't improved the game (or the signal to noise
ratio in the newsgroup), on the other hand.
--
Dundee of Lake Superior - Skep...@SPAMISantisocial.com
Townstone proposal and Other Stuff:
http://dundee.uong.com
Zorion
Susan Shubert wrote in message
<6lmh3c$9...@priv-sys04-le0.telusplanet.net>...
>I am truly surprised at all of the whining and crying that goes on here
over
>"such and such did that" , "so and so is that". Give it up. This is
>supposed to be a game...a world of fantasy which people are using to escape
>and enjoy.
You know I never here anyone gripe about the drake that kicked their "butt",
that they stood still too long and let that Orc mage whip up on them, or
that a giant spider poisoned them. Hey, everytime I die I learn something,
and yes it sucks. I say we all bind together and repremand the PK's. That is
what Ultima Online was designed to be. That's why I am training up on my
archery. If you want it to stop go out as a band of Men and Women and bring
order to the land. I am, however, looking forward to the new rep system, but
that won't make it stop. And OSI won't make it stop either. Take your lands
back, fight for what you want.
[][[[[[[[[[-(=====================>
Zorion of Britain: Adept Swordsman, Pacific
Legin of Trinsic
I agree...and not because she's my wife, neither. :>
When I first started playing UO, I was getting killed on an almost daily
basis...it was pretty frustrating to lose all my shiny new armor, magic
weapons
and any stock I'd managed to build up for sale to vendors...
After a while, I learned to build up strength and magic resistance, so I'd
at least
have a chance of surviving long enough to escape. The first time I decided
enough
was enough, and took on a pesky thief outside of town, and killed him, I
just about
fell off of my chair in surprise...now, I laugh like crazy every time I run
into a moderate
level "PK" that takes a couple of whacks while I just stand there...they
can't understand
why I'm not running, and why I'm not dying as quickly as they'd like. :>
I look at PK's as a normal part of the course of the world, and as I play on
Pacific, I've
seem a definate downturn in their numbers during the times I play...they
definately provide
more of a challenge than the AI monsters, although I haven't braved some of
the more difficult
ones in a while...
What I >do< have a major problem with is bug abusers. I've been dye-bugged,
Blade-Spirit bugged,
and generally theived from to the point I attack any theif I find outside of
town limits that's in the red...
Legin of Trinsic, Pacific Shard
Susan Shubert wrote in message
<6lmh3c$9...@priv-sys04-le0.telusplanet.net>...
>I am truly surprised at all of the whining and crying that goes on here
over
>"such and such did that" , "so and so is that". Give it up. This is
>supposed to be a game...a world of fantasy which people are using to escape
>and enjoy.
>
>So what if there are some PK'ers...did you honestly expect this to be a
>Utopia? Granted, I don't like getting PK'ed any more than anyone else
>does...yet the existence of evil characters who prey on others adds
>excitement to this game.
>
>If you guys want to go play a Utopia game...go play Realm. If you want to
>play a good game and take all the good with the bad...then stick with this
>game and quit your whining & puling.
>
>Bobbin
>
>
UbuRex9
Susan Shubert wrote in message
><6lmh3c$9...@priv-sys04-le0.telusplanet.net>...
>>I am truly surprised at all of the whining and crying that goes on here
>over
>>"such and such did that" , "so and so is that". Give it up. This is
>>supposed to be a game...a world of fantasy which people are using to escape
>>and enjoy.
>>
>>So what if there are some PK'ers...did you honestly expect this to be a
>>Utopia? Granted, I don't like getting PK'ed any more than anyone else
>>does...yet the existence of evil characters who prey on others adds
>>excitement to this game.
>>
>>If you guys want to go play a Utopia game...go play Realm. If you want to
>>play a good game and take all the good with the bad...then stick with this
>>game and quit your whining & puling.
>>
>>Bobbin
I agree. One of the reasons I quit was because of the incredible lack of
solidarity among the so-called good players of UO. When I decided to turn red,
I found a team of intelligent, honest, and team oriented Dreads who watched
each others backs and shared and shared alike (granted, the profit from our
ill-gotten gains was high). This contrasted totally with my experiences as a
Blue Lord. As a Blue Lord, I often found myself abandoned by other Blue players
whom I had just moments earlier been fighting shoulder to shoulder with against
hordes of monsters.
While I understand that there are players who refuse to engage in PvP in any
form, I personally feel most Blue players don't fall into this particular
philosophical camp. Most Blue players would kill that thief or looter if they
could without a second thought. My own personal belief is that many of these
Blue players who bugged out at the first sight of danger cared more for their
loot than for any semblance of role-playing conflict or unified solidarity.
There were Blue players (mostly antis who also shared the same nonchalant and
easy-going attitude of the Dreads I fell in with later in my playing career)
who were willing to throw caution to the winds for a good fight, but these
Blues were few and far between.
UO has many flaws, but to place the blame for its failure solely on pks is not
only short-sighted, but irresponsible. Many of the people who gripe about pks
obviously love UO more than I did. Do something about it then! When the new
reputation patch comes in, instead of griping about loopholes or whatever,
start fighting back. It seems to me that unless UO gives all Blue players an
instant-death weapon against Reds, most Blue players just don't give a crap
about their fellow Blues. Better to run and hope the Reds take out that other
Blue guy and not me, it seems.
Again, these are broad strokes of a brush. I'm aware that there are good
people who have their playing time ruined by PvP players. But, in my opinion,
there are far more Blue powergamers out there who merely want to max out on
stats and loot and don't care about community or whatnot.
And, as a final addendum, supporting Red players doesn't automatically involve
supporting harrassers or bug exploiters or cheaters. It seems that anyone who
even posts something which questions rabid anti-red sentiments needs to place
this sort of disclaimer at the end of all their posts.
+Ubu Rex+
Roman Yazhbin
That is the story of my UO life with my Dread.
Labuser
> On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:51:54 -0600, "Susan Shubert"
> <sus...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
>
> >I am truly surprised at all of the whining and crying that goes on here over
> >"such and such did that" , "so and so is that". Give it up. This is
> >supposed to be a game...a world of fantasy which people are using to escape
> >and enjoy.
>
> What the heck happened? Suddenly the newgroup is inundated with
> people whining about non-PKers.
>
> >So what if there are some PK'ers...
>
> *LOL* Some?!
LOL, some?! Yes, some. Most players of UO are not pkers.
>
> >does...yet the existence of evil characters who prey on others adds
> >excitement to this game.
>
> Time for the semi-official list of PK rationalizations again. Here's
> a hint, we've heard it all before, and none of it excuses antisocial
> behavior.
Susan Susan. *sigh*. Just because it isn't fun, doesn't mean it is
anti-social. You can't make everyone do what you want. By the way, just
because you came up with a list of pker rationalizations, doesn't mean
pking is wrong. I could easily come up with a list of comprehensive
rationalizations as to why I should eat, that doesn't make eating wrong.
>
> >play a good game and take all the good with the bad...then stick with this
> >game and quit your whining & puling.
>
> The "whining" has lead to the rep system, bounties, stat loss for
> murderers, bulletin boards reporting murders in the area, etc. - the
> game is better for it.
>
> Whining about whiners hasn't improved the game (or the signal to noise
> ratio in the newsgroup), on the other hand.
whining about whiners who whine about whiners doesn't contribute either Susan.
Dennis Heffernan
Zorion wrote in message <6lmikf$3kh$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
|You know I never here anyone gripe about the drake that kicked their "butt",
|that they stood still too long and let that Orc mage whip up on them, or
|that a giant spider poisoned them. Hey, everytime I die I learn something,
|and yes it sucks. I say we all bind together and repremand the PK's. That is
|what Ultima Online was designed to be. That's why I am training up on my
|archery. If you want it to stop go out as a band of Men and Women and bring
|order to the land. I am, however, looking forward to the new rep system, but
|that won't make it stop. And OSI won't make it stop either. Take your lands
|back, fight for what you want.
Why are there so many dumbasses who don't realise that they can't possibly
"take back the lands"?
Dennis F. Heffernan UO: Venture (Catskills) df...@worldnet.att.net
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"You bitch about the present and blame it on the past/I'd like to find your
inner child and kick its little ass!" - D. Henley/G. Frey, "Get Over It"
Dennis Heffernan
UbuRex9 wrote in message <199806102012...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
|obviously love UO more than I did. Do something about it then! When the new
WE CAN'T. NO PLAYER CAN.
The offenders are real people. The only thing we can touch are characters.
Except the offenders don't _have_ characters -- they have playing pieces. When
one wears out they get a new one. Real people are not going to change their
behavior when faced with virtual punishments, any more than real people change
their behavior in RL when faced with REAL punishments. (Notice how the law
deters criminals -- which is to say, not at all.)
Sure, if you pick one of these cretins and beat on him, and beat on him, and
BEAT ON HIM AND BEAT ON HIM AND BEAT ON HIM AND BEAT ON HIM AND BEAT ON HIM with
everyone in sight he may, eventually, lose patience with it and leave the system
for greener pastures. OR, you will lose patience and leave. Either way, by the
time that happens ten more like him have signed on. You're shoveling sand against
the tide. (And in UO, it's more likely the cretin will simply jump servers.)
It is exactly as DD says: THEY WILL NEVER GO AWAY. That makes all talk of
"dealing with them" academic: you can't. The only viable solution is to design
the software so as to minimize the damage they can cause. That means PvP protection.
Dundee
> Why are there so many dumbasses who don't realise that they can't possibly
>"take back the lands"?
Newbies.
Aren't they cute?
ti...@enteract.bottblock.com
Labuser <lab...@fas.harvard.edu> said...
> whining about whiners who whine about whiners doesn't contribute either Susan.
::laugh:: Neither do replies where you attempt to speak condescendingly to
a poster by name... and you're addressing the wrong person.
Unless Dundee recently had an operation...?
Tirya
Farren, Apprentice Miner, Catskills
UbuRex9
Dennis, I completely agree with you. You are one of the few people who play UO
who has consistantly stated an abhorence to PvP combat in any way shape or
form. This consistancy I admire. But you must admit that a great number (I
can't say whether it's a majority or not) of UO players want to have their cake
and eat it too. They want to be able to beat on thieves (who, after all, are
merely plying a trade sanctioned by OSI), beat on looters (another sanctioned
activity), beat on jerk-offs (no pun intended), etc. while eschewing any risk
at all inherent in PvP combat.
I have the strange suspicion that many of these angry UO anti-pkers would be
incredibly happy if UO suddenly gave them overwhelming odds in the form of
weapons or magic or whatever in order to beat pkers into submission. There's
no honor on both sides, in my opinion, but at least pkers take the good with
the bad.
Dennis, just one question and please don't take this the wrong way.
Irregardless of all the great things that UO has accomplished, and irregardless
of whether you have a sentimental attachment to UO, why do you insist on
playing a game that obviously will not put an end to PvP combat? Like Sartre
said, "We are all guilty," and if you continue to play UO while ranting about
pking, then it is YOU who are raging against the tides.
+Ubu Rex+
Coppage
I think a high number of people don't want to engage in PvP and have always
just wanted a switch or a shard that would turn off PvP. To me that has always
been the simplest and best solution (solution meaning it aint perfect but its
the best try). I dont want my cake and the chance to eat it too. I don't
want to PvP. I don't want to beat on thieves. I just want to use my
imagination and go after the evil monsters. But UO has flately stated there
will be no switch or non pvp shard. So we make do. I have fun in spite of my
cares about PvP....I just wish I had a choice.
Cyclone on Napa
Matt Allan Miller
In article <AD7D4636B19A003B.3E5D3778...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
Dun...@LakeSuperior.Shard (Dundee) wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:30:22 -0400, "Dennis Heffernan"
><df...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Why are there so many dumbasses who don't realise that they can't possibly
>>"take back the lands"?
>
>Newbies.
>
>Aren't they cute?
Ahhh I remember dropping to Dastardly and getting chased all over Britain by noto-PKs. I'd make it back to a guarded
zone, cheerfully put whatever meger monster loot I'd manged to get, and think to my self "Well at least they're getting rid of
PKs".
-Matt Miller
>
>--
>Dundee of Lake Superior - Skep...@SPAMISantisocial.com
>Townstone proposal and Other Stuff:
>http://dundee.uong.com
___________________________________
Matt Miller
http://pw2.netcom.com/~matmillr
a.a#357
aka Lord Vanir of Sonoma
__________________________________
James H. Banks
Dundee wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:51:54 -0600, "Susan Shubert"
> <sus...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
>
> >I am truly surprised at all of the whining and crying that goes on here over
> >"such and such did that" , "so and so is that". Give it up. This is
> >supposed to be a game...a world of fantasy which people are using to escape
> >and enjoy.
>
> What the heck happened? Suddenly the newgroup is inundated with
> people whining about non-PKers.
>
wow.....another post about 'whiners'?
Say, you don't suppose someone wrote a post about 'wine' bottles in UO, and maybe
mispelled it? and now we're getting all the anti-whine posts ( or should that be
anti-wine?). Dam....I've gone and confused myself already. I think I need some
wine.
> >So what if there are some PK'ers...
>
> *LOL* Some?!
>
ah, but those 'some' certainly have more impact than the blues standing beside
the bank talking about their skills. 8-) . BRB - gotta go get some wine.
> >does...yet the existence of evil characters who prey on others adds
> >excitement to this game.
>
> Time for the semi-official list of PK rationalizations again. Here's
> a hint, we've heard it all before, and none of it excuses antisocial
> behavior.
>
> >play a good game and take all the good with the bad...then stick with this
> >game and quit your whining & puling.
>
> The "whining" has lead to the rep system, bounties, stat loss for
> murderers, bulletin boards reporting murders in the area, etc. - the
> game is better for it.
>
OK. Back .<sip> Yes, I do hope this will be positive for the game. It seems like
it should be. I wonder if more blues will be camped out near the Chaos Shrine,
waiting to multiple kill reds as they resurrect. Or will they be able to
resurrect elsewhere? Maybe the healers outside towns will suddenly be more
forgiving. <more sip>
> Whining about whiners hasn't improved the game (or the signal to noise
> ratio in the newsgroup), on the other hand.
>
*hic* I supsose i've kontributed to dat sumwhat wid my owwn posts...defendering
the winos, errr..whineos...err..whinnys....aw, crap *hic* mi appleogies *hic*
GL GLaeken - Lich Superer *hic*
Matt Allan Miller
In article <199806102228...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
ubu...@aol.com (UbuRex9) wrote:
It seems to me the reason most people who say they like PvP but object to PKs do so is because PK battles are almost
always lop-sided. Weapons aren't balanced and most often PKs hunt in absurdly large packs. Add on to that people who cheat
their wealth and stats into the stratosphere (please don't tell me that PKs aren't all cheaters. I know that. I have no
information on what percentage use cheats and I don't want to get involved in a discussion on the topic.), and you don't
really have conflict, you just have something you have to run away from.
>
>I have the strange suspicion that many of these angry UO anti-pkers would be
>incredibly happy if UO suddenly gave them overwhelming odds in the form of
>weapons or magic or whatever in order to beat pkers into submission. There's
>no honor on both sides, in my opinion, but at least pkers take the good with
>the bad.
I'd like to see that because it's simply too easy to exploit the system that way, and it has to be controlled. The
design team seems to have taken the position that PvP is there for guild and interpersonal conflict, and to regulate
obnoxious behavior. Giveing an overwhelming advantage to anti-PKs would be consistant with that.
-Matt Miller
J Aitken
Amen,
Otara, Napa
Wolfgang Artner
On 10 Jun 1998 20:12:52 GMT, ubu...@aol.com (UbuRex9) wrote:
>Susan Shubert wrote in message
>><6lmh3c$9...@priv-sys04-le0.telusplanet.net>...
>>>I am truly surprised at all of the whining and crying that goes on here
>>over
>>>"such and such did that" , "so and so is that". Give it up. This is
>>>supposed to be a game...a world of fantasy which people are using to escape
>>>and enjoy.
>>>
>>>So what if there are some PK'ers...did you honestly expect this to be a
>>>Utopia? Granted, I don't like getting PK'ed any more than anyone else
>>>does...yet the existence of evil characters who prey on others adds
>>>excitement to this game.
>>>
>>>If you guys want to go play a Utopia game...go play Realm. If you want to
>>>play a good game and take all the good with the bad...then stick with this
>>>game and quit your whining & puling.
>>>
>>>Bobbin
>
>I agree. One of the reasons I quit was because of the incredible lack of
>solidarity among the so-called good players of UO. When I decided to turn red,
>I found a team of intelligent, honest, and team oriented Dreads who watched
>each others backs and shared and shared alike (granted, the profit from our
>ill-gotten gains was high). This contrasted totally with my experiences as a
>Blue Lord. As a Blue Lord, I often found myself abandoned by other Blue players
>whom I had just moments earlier been fighting shoulder to shoulder with against
>hordes of monsters.
I agree100%.I have reached a point where I never run away when
attacked from Pkæ„€.I always fight back.When it turns out that my dead
is near then I try to escape.
My character is not superman,but I find it ridiculous when a so called
Grat Lordæ„€ first action when facing some reds is to run.
Yesterday I was in Covetous.Around me there where about 4-5
Blues.Suddenly 2 Dread Lords appear,maybe they where hidden there.What
you guess the first action of all Blues was....running...away of
course.I started fighting against them.Man,these two guys were not
some super powergamers with a Xbow of Super Huppa you are dead with 3
shots.No one was a Master archer and one a Master Swordsman.
While I was fighting against them all those Grat Lords (bah) run
away.The red archery must been a lousy one.It tooks 4 shots before he
could injure.I managed it badly hurt the swordsman,he was nearly
dead.His buddy of course stopped shooting at me and starts healing
him.
Ok I died in the end.But with only 2 more Blues I am sure we could
have won this fight.
The Great Lord Alrik,The Adventurers Circle/Catskill
ICQ 7171592
The Master
Susan Shubert wrote:
> So what if there are some PK'ers...
Ah, the old,
It's-a-small-problem,-let-them-kill-and-loot-to-their-hearts-content ploy.
> ...yet the existence of evil characters who prey on others adds
> excitement to this game.
And the, It-adds-excitement argumant.
> game and quit your whining & puling.
And of course, the ever popular WHINING. Always got to refer to any statement
we don't like as WHINING.
OK, you've made your great speach. You've convinced no one. pk are still the
problem that they are, subject to the solutions we know will work.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Remove the NOSPAM_ to reply.
Twilight
I
>some super powergamers with a Xbow of Super Huppa you are dead with 3
>shots.No one was a Master archer and one a Master Swordsman.
>
Hmm u are fortunate then. The time i play the are 3-5 groups of pk guilds on my
time. All have prepatched weaponry. Yes yes 1 hit kills but mainly 2 hits also
a few barely legit 3 hitters.
Hope fully the weapons review will patch these away.
Incidently i have 2 of them of mmy own..but i got jailed for using them :)
--
I can picture in my mind a world without war , a world without hate. And I can
picture us attacking that world , because they'd never expect it.- Jack Handey
Zorion
Actually I've been playing for some time.
Dundee wrote in message ...
>On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:30:22 -0400, "Dennis Heffernan"
><df...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Why are there so many dumbasses who don't realise that they can't
possibly
>>"take back the lands"?
>
>Newbies.
>
>Aren't they cute?
>
Dundee
On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:12:42 -0500, lab...@fas.harvard.edu (Labuser)
wrote:
>> >So what if there are some PK'ers...
>>
>> *LOL* Some?!
>
>LOL, some?! Yes, some. Most players of UO are not pkers.
There are a heck of a lot more than "some" PKers. PKing is out of
hand.
In fact, it's why the Dev' team made a notoriety system to begin with.
It's why they put in a bounty system (that never worked correctly).
It's why they put in bulletin boards that listed who'd been killed by
whom in the area.
They put in all this crap because PKing wsa out of hand - and it's
*still* out of hand. So now they've spent MONTHS working on a new
reputation system.
Why would they do that? Do you get the feeling that maybe PKing might
possibly be out of hand?
>Susan Susan. *sigh*. Just because it isn't fun, doesn't mean it is
>anti-social.
Refusing to limit yourself to having PvP-combat with others who have a
desire for PvP-combat is antisocial.
>You can't make everyone do what you want.
No, this is what PK's do. And it's antisocial.
>By the way, just because you came up with a list of pker rationalizations,
>doesn't mean pking is wrong. I could easily come up with a list of comprehensive
>rationalizations as to why I should eat, that doesn't make eating wrong.
You miss the point.
We hear the same arguments from PKers defending their antisocial
behavior over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
and over and over AND WE'RES STILL NOT CONVINCED!
So if all you can do to defend your behavior is to throw out one of
those old arguments YET AGAIN, then you aren't gonna convince us that
you are right.
>> The "whining" has lead to the rep system, bounties, stat loss for
>> murderers, bulletin boards reporting murders in the area, etc. - the
>> game is better for it.
I notice you decline to reply to this at all, but instead skip down
for a condecending whine about whiners who whine about whiners who
whine abour whiners. Nice.
And if you're gonna call me Susan, can I can you Betty?
Dundee
On 10 Jun 1998 22:28:42 GMT, ubu...@aol.com (UbuRex9) wrote:
>This consistancy I admire. But you must admit that a great number (I
>can't say whether it's a majority or not) of UO players want to have their cake
>and eat it too. They want to be able to beat on thieves (who, after all, are
>merely plying a trade sanctioned by OSI), beat on looters (another sanctioned
>activity), beat on jerk-offs (no pun intended), etc. while eschewing any risk
>at all inherent in PvP combat.
For the record, I rather enjoy a bit of PvP combat from time to time.
But I also think there should be dire consequences for the
mass-murdering types, because PKing is out of hand.
Dundee
> It seems to me the reason most people who say they like PvP but object to PKs do so is because PK battles are almost
>always lop-sided. Weapons aren't balanced and most often PKs hunt in absurdly large packs. Add on to that people who cheat
>their wealth and stats into the stratosphere (please don't tell me that PKs aren't all cheaters. I know that. I have no
>information on what percentage use cheats and I don't want to get involved in a discussion on the topic.), and you don't
Even if they don't cheat, we're fighting orcs for 100 gold and a pair
of boots while they're hauling platemail, reagents, weapons, potions,
ammo, etc. etc. etc. off of their victims.
Susan Shubert
Zorion wrote in message <6lmikf$3kh$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
>
>You know I never here anyone gripe about the drake that kicked their
"butt",
>that they stood still too long and let that Orc mage whip up on them, or
>that a giant spider poisoned them. Hey, everytime I die I learn something,
>and yes it sucks. I say we all bind together and repremand the PK's. That
is
>what Ultima Online was designed to be. That's why I am training up on my
>archery. If you want it to stop go out as a band of Men and Women and bring
>order to the land. I am, however, looking forward to the new rep system,
but
>that won't make it stop. And OSI won't make it stop either. Take your lands
>back, fight for what you want.
>
>[][[[[[[[[[-(=====================>
>Zorion of Britain: Adept Swordsman, Pacific
>
That is my point exactly. Fight the PK's, take the lands back, fight for
what you want...not just whine and cry about it. Granted some comments have
needed to be made to bring bugs to the attention of OSI (who may have missed
it)...however crying that PK's need to be "completely" removed from the game
is silly too.
Susan Shubert
Umm...Labuser, the comments to which you are responding were not made by me.
The "antisocial" etc. was made by a fellow responding to my message.
Labuser wrote in message ...
>
>
>> On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 11:51:54 -0600, "Susan Shubert"
>> <sus...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
>>
>> >I am truly surprised at all of the whining and crying that goes on here
over
>> >"such and such did that" , "so and so is that". Give it up. This is
>> >supposed to be a game...a world of fantasy which people are using to
escape
>> >and enjoy.
>>
>> What the heck happened? Suddenly the newgroup is inundated with
>> people whining about non-PKers.
>>
>> >So what if there are some PK'ers...
>>
>> *LOL* Some?!
>
>LOL, some?! Yes, some. Most players of UO are not pkers.
>
>
>>
>> >does...yet the existence of evil characters who prey on others adds
>> >excitement to this game.
>>
>> Time for the semi-official list of PK rationalizations again. Here's
>> a hint, we've heard it all before, and none of it excuses antisocial
>> behavior.
>
>Susan Susan. *sigh*. Just because it isn't fun, doesn't mean it is
>anti-social. You can't make everyone do what you want. By the way, just
>because you came up with a list of pker rationalizations, doesn't mean
>pking is wrong. I could easily come up with a list of comprehensive
>rationalizations as to why I should eat, that doesn't make eating wrong.
>
>
>>
>> >play a good game and take all the good with the bad...then stick with
this
>> >game and quit your whining & puling.
>>
>> The "whining" has lead to the rep system, bounties, stat loss for
>> murderers, bulletin boards reporting murders in the area, etc. - the
>> game is better for it.
>>
>> Whining about whiners hasn't improved the game (or the signal to noise
>> ratio in the newsgroup), on the other hand.
>
Dundee
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:34:20 -0500, "Zorion" <cpi...@cyberramp.net>
wrote:
>>>Why are there so many dumbasses who don't realise that they can't
>>>possibly "take back the lands"?
>>
>>Newbies.
>>
>>Aren't they cute?
>Actually I've been playing for some time.
Well. Then you should know better.
Dundee
>That is my point exactly. Fight the PK's, take the lands back, fight for
>what you want...not just whine and cry about it.
Fighting PK's currently is a suckers game. It doesn't stop them. It
barely even slows them down. We're fighting orcs for boots and 100
coins, while they're fighting us for 1000's worth of loot. And,
people that don't solve the rampant PKing problem by running out and
engaging in MORE PvP combat.
>Granted some comments have needed to be made to bring bugs to the
>attention of OSI (who may have missed it)...however crying that PK's need
>to be "completely" removed from the game is silly too.
I don't recall a single post making the assertion that PK's need to be
completely removed from the game.
There aren't even many posts advocating a PK-switch.
PKing is rampant. It's out of hand. There's too much of it. If you
feel otherwise, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But keep
in mind that you're saying OSI's dev' team is therefore a bunch of
idiots that just wasted a huge amount of time creating a reputation
system to solve a "nonexistant" problem.
Also, it's bad form to call any post that you don't agree with
"whining". For some reason, the "whining" word gets tossed in and
used a lot for about a week, usually by people that are new to the
newsgroup. Then it stops getting used because either you stick around
and learn to converse with us or you get bored and wander off again.
Susan Shubert
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I do understand the right to express
one's opinion is still an inherent right.
The Master wrote in message <357F9FDB...@uswest.net>...
>Susan Shubert wrote:
>
>> So what if there are some PK'ers...
>
>It's-a-small-problem,-let-them-kill-and-loot-to-their-hearts-content ploy.
>
>
>> excitement to this game.
>
>
>
>> game and quit your whining & puling.
>
Zaphkiel
In article
<8533C0455B468973.7428FC46...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
Dun...@LakeSuperior.Shard says...
>And if you're gonna call me Susan, can I can you Betty?
Surely you can't be serious...
--Zaphkiel
5.... 4.... 3....2....
------------------
Spam free Usenet news http://www.newsguy.com
Dundee
On 11 Jun 1998 11:27:06 -0700, Zaphkiel <zaph...@home.com> wrote:
>In article
><8533C0455B468973.7428FC46...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
>Dun...@LakeSuperior.Shard says...
>
>>And if you're gonna call me Susan, can I can you Betty?
>
>
> Surely you can't be serious...
Of course not, but don't call me Shirly.
hmm... sorta loses something in print.
The Master
Wolfgang Artner wrote:
> I agree100%.I have reached a point where I never run away when
> attacked from Pkæ„€.I always fight back.When it turns out that my dead
> is near then I try to escape.
> My character is not superman,but I find it ridiculous when a so called
> Grat Lordæ„€ first action when facing some reds is to run.
This makes sense. Reds usually appear in packs, and the first clue you often get is
Corp Por Corp Por Corp Por Corp Por You are Dead. You don't run immediately, you
contribute your entire stash to them. If this has not been your experience, you
have been lucky.
> Ok I died in the end.But with only 2 more Blues I am sure we could
> have won this fight.
And if seven more reds had popped in, as they often do (see ICQ, the pk's friend),
you all contribute your entire holdings to them as you head off to be ressed.
There is no cowardice or stupidity in running on first contact with reds. The way
they operate, and what's a stake, demand a certain amount of caution. Your
foolhardiness is not bravery.
The Master
Susan Shubert wrote:
> I'm not trying to convince anyone. I do understand the right to express
> one's opinion is still an inherent right.
No, according to your own words, it is whining.
Roman Yazhbin
Yep, the PKing is out of hand. As long as there will be at least one
PKer in the game it will be still out of hand for guys as you.
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Dundee wrote:
> On 10 Jun 1998 22:28:42 GMT, ubu...@aol.com (UbuRex9) wrote:
>
> >This consistancy I admire. But you must admit that a great number (I
> >can't say whether it's a majority or not) of UO players want to have their cake
> >and eat it too. They want to be able to beat on thieves (who, after all, are
> >merely plying a trade sanctioned by OSI), beat on looters (another sanctioned
> >activity), beat on jerk-offs (no pun intended), etc. while eschewing any risk
> >at all inherent in PvP combat.
>
> For the record, I rather enjoy a bit of PvP combat from time to time.
> But I also think there should be dire consequences for the
> mass-murdering types, because PKing is out of hand.
>
Roman Yazhbin
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Dundee wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:03:17 GMT, Matt Allan Miller
> <matm...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > It seems to me the reason most people who say they like PvP but object to PKs do so is because PK battles are almost
> >always lop-sided. Weapons aren't balanced and most often PKs hunt in absurdly large packs. Add on to that people who cheat
> >their wealth and stats into the stratosphere (please don't tell me that PKs aren't all cheaters. I know that. I have no
> >information on what percentage use cheats and I don't want to get involved in a discussion on the topic.), and you don't
>
> Even if they don't cheat, we're fighting orcs for 100 gold and a pair
> of boots while they're hauling platemail, reagents, weapons, potions,
> ammo, etc. etc. etc. off of their victims.
>
Don't you think that PK is a greater loot when you defeat him?
You can get so much stuff out of PK as you will from 20 orcs.
Roman Yazhbin
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Dundee wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 17:12:42 -0500, lab...@fas.harvard.edu (Labuser)
> wrote:
>
> >> >So what if there are some PK'ers...
> >>
> >> *LOL* Some?!
> >
> >LOL, some?! Yes, some. Most players of UO are not pkers.
>
> There are a heck of a lot more than "some" PKers. PKing is out of
> hand.
What do you want? Everyboby suppose to be a good guy? GL saint?
>
> In fact, it's why the Dev' team made a notoriety system to begin with.
>
> It's why they put in a bounty system (that never worked correctly).
>
> It's why they put in bulletin boards that listed who'd been killed by
> whom in the area.
>
> They put in all this crap because PKing wsa out of hand - and it's
> *still* out of hand. So now they've spent MONTHS working on a new
> reputation system.
And it will be out of hand all the time. People will always find a chance
to kill somebody. For example, that proposal with murder count. It clearly
mean that time to time you can kill somebody. Of course it will slow down
some powergamers, but still PKing will exist in the game without doubt.
>
> Why would they do that? Do you get the feeling that maybe PKing might
> possibly be out of hand?
>
> >Susan Susan. *sigh*. Just because it isn't fun, doesn't mean it is
> >anti-social.
>
> Refusing to limit yourself to having PvP-combat with others who have a
> desire for PvP-combat is antisocial.
Agreed, but when I am playing my PK, I do not think about his antisocial
behavior, because he is antisocial, he is a bad guy, Dread Lord.
>
> >You can't make everyone do what you want.
>
> No, this is what PK's do. And it's antisocial.
Same phraze here.
>
> >By the way, just because you came up with a list of pker rationalizations,
> >doesn't mean pking is wrong. I could easily come up with a list of comprehensive
> >rationalizations as to why I should eat, that doesn't make eating wrong.
>
> You miss the point.
>
> We hear the same arguments from PKers defending their antisocial
> behavior over and over and over and over and over and over and over
> and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
> over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over
> and over and over AND WE'RES STILL NOT CONVINCED!
Show me that PKer. He is not a PKer. He is just a money hunter. None of
the PKs I know never ever trying to find any way to defend their
anti-social behavior.
>
> So if all you can do to defend your behavior is to throw out one of
> those old arguments YET AGAIN, then you aren't gonna convince us that
> you are right.
>
> >> The "whining" has lead to the rep system, bounties, stat loss for
> >> murderers, bulletin boards reporting murders in the area, etc. - the
> >> game is better for it.
>
> I notice you decline to reply to this at all, but instead skip down
> for a condecending whine about whiners who whine about whiners who
> whine abour whiners. Nice.
I think that whining is the major reason why development team spend
MONTHS on the new rep system.
>
> And if you're gonna call me Susan, can I can you Betty?
Call him/her anyway you want. You got my permission. :-)
Roman Yazhbin
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Susan Shubert wrote:
>
> Zorion wrote in message <6lmikf$3kh$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
> >
> >You know I never here anyone gripe about the drake that kicked their
> "butt",
> >that they stood still too long and let that Orc mage whip up on them, or
> >that a giant spider poisoned them. Hey, everytime I die I learn something,
> >and yes it sucks. I say we all bind together and repremand the PK's. That
> is
> >what Ultima Online was designed to be. That's why I am training up on my
> >archery. If you want it to stop go out as a band of Men and Women and bring
> >order to the land. I am, however, looking forward to the new rep system,
> but
> >that won't make it stop. And OSI won't make it stop either. Take your lands
> >back, fight for what you want.
> >
> >[][[[[[[[[[-(=====================>
> >Zorion of Britain: Adept Swordsman, Pacific
> >
>
>
> That is my point exactly. Fight the PK's, take the lands back, fight for
> what you want...not just whine and cry about it. Granted some comments have
> needed to be made to bring bugs to the attention of OSI (who may have missed
> it)...however crying that PK's need to be "completely" removed from the game
> is silly too.
>
That is the word of the great person. LET THE WAR BEGIN!!!!!
Dundee
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:45:24 -0400, Roman Yazhbin <rom...@wpi.edu>
wrote:
>> There are a heck of a lot more than "some" PKers. PKing is out of
>> hand.
>
>What do you want? Everyboby suppose to be a good guy? GL saint?
I must be typing in foreign language again. Dang. I hate it when
that happens.
Lemme try again:
##There is too much player-killing.##
There.
Now if you see "Everybody is supposed to be a good guy" somewhere in
the above line, underline it.
>And it will be out of hand all the time. People will always find a chance
>to kill somebody. For example, that proposal with murder count. It clearly
>mean that time to time you can kill somebody. Of course it will slow down
>some powergamers, but still PKing will exist in the game without doubt.
You understand that there is a difference between: "PKing will exist
in the game" and PKilling "will be out of hand all the time"?
Can you spot what that difference is?
>Show me that PKer.
Try dejanews. For that matter, there are posts in the newsgroup
*right now* that repeat - AGAIN - the same old claptwaddle. That's
why I posted the list of "standard PK rationalizations" in the first
place. Because we here that stuff over and over again.
"There isn't "'too much' rampant mass-murdering in UO"
"PK's make the game fun!"
blah blah blah
>I think that whining is the major reason why development team spend
>MONTHS on the new rep system.
We have a difference of opinion, there.
And you're saying that Raph Koster was lieing when he claimed to
believe that rampant mass-murdering was out of hand. I personally
have no reason to believe that is the case, but you can post a message
to him here - he reads this group. Just title it "Raph Koster is a
liar" and I'm sure he'll read it.
Dundee
>Don't you think that PK is a greater loot when you defeat him?
>You can get so much stuff out of PK as you will from 20 orcs.
Are you suggesting that PK'd die even *close* to 50% of the time?
Because otherwise it's still pretty lopsided.
Dundee
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:47:29 -0400, Roman Yazhbin <rom...@wpi.edu>
wrote:
>Yep, the PKing is out of hand. As long as there will be at least one
>PKer in the game it will be still out of hand for guys as you.
What have I ever posted to make you think this?
Tell yah what, I'll say what *I* think and you say what *you* think.
Instead of *you* trying to guess what *I* think...
We *might* be able to have a conversation that way.
Roman Yazhbin
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Dundee wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:45:24 -0400, Roman Yazhbin <rom...@wpi.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >> There are a heck of a lot more than "some" PKers. PKing is out of
> >> hand.
> >
> >What do you want? Everyboby suppose to be a good guy? GL saint?
>
> I must be typing in foreign language again. Dang. I hate it when
> that happens.
>
> Lemme try again:
>
> ##There is too much player-killing.##
>
> There.
OK I got your point :-)
Now read this: in most RPG evironments(books, games, movies), your
strongest and toughest enemies are those of your own kind (people).
>
> Now if you see "Everybody is supposed to be a good guy" somewhere in
> the above line, underline it.
I can underline in my logical understanding of your posts. May be I
missunderstanding you, but as far as I can understand it being a bad guy
is bad. So there should be no bad guys at all. I suppose you will try to
tell me that I can play a bad guy by killing NPCs, but there is no point
of doing so, because there is two or three NPCs in the whole shard.
>
> >And it will be out of hand all the time. People will always find a chance
> >to kill somebody. For example, that proposal with murder count. It clearly
> >mean that time to time you can kill somebody. Of course it will slow down
> >some powergamers, but still PKing will exist in the game without doubt.
>
> You understand that there is a difference between: "PKing will exist
> in the game" and PKilling "will be out of hand all the time"?
What is your number of PKs that allowed to stay in the shard?
Let's make it 20. I am more than positive that they will organize
themselves and start terorizing others, who would still say that the game
belong to the PKs and they are way out of hand.
>
> Can you spot what that difference is?
>
> >Show me that PKer.
>
> Try dejanews. For that matter, there are posts in the newsgroup
> *right now* that repeat - AGAIN - the same old claptwaddle. That's
> why I posted the list of "standard PK rationalizations" in the first
> place. Because we here that stuff over and over again.
>
> "There isn't "'too much' rampant mass-murdering in UO"
> "PK's make the game fun!"
> blah blah blah
About those rationalizations: some of them has their point.
PKs do make the game fun. I could never understand those who
have a great deal of fun just because they type "thou" istead of
"you".
>
> >I think that whining is the major reason why development team spend
> >MONTHS on the new rep system.
>
> We have a difference of opinion, there.
>
> And you're saying that Raph Koster was lieing when he claimed to
> believe that rampant mass-murdering was out of hand. I personally
> have no reason to believe that is the case, but you can post a message
> to him here - he reads this group. Just title it "Raph Koster is a
> liar" and I'm sure he'll read it.
>
Ok I will contact him via this NG somewhere in the future.
If you planing to reply, don't post to NG only, but also send me e-mail.
Roman Yazhbin
How many times a day do you get killed?
With my super PK, who is more than just strong I am getting killed at
least 3 times a day.
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Dundee wrote:
ti...@enteract.bottblock.com
Roman Yazhbin <rom...@wpi.edu> said...
> > >> >So what if there are some PK'ers...
> > >>
> > >> *LOL* Some?!
> > >
> > >LOL, some?! Yes, some. Most players of UO are not pkers.
> >
> > hand.
> What do you want? Everyboby suppose to be a good guy? GL saint?
No, I want those people who want to play PvP to go play with *other*
people who want to play PvP and leave those of us who don't want to play
PvP alone to enjoy our game.
> Agreed, but when I am playing my PK, I do not think about his antisocial
> behavior, because he is antisocial, he is a bad guy, Dread Lord.
And if he's gonna take a stat loss every time he kills someone, he's not
going to be Corp Poring every Johnny Newbie who comes down the pike for
kicks. He's going to stop and think "Well, do I want to waste a murder
slot on this guy?" And if he's not smart enough to think that through and
become more selective, then he's going to have a real problem with the
stat loss.
Tirya
Farren, Apprentice Miner, Catskills
Roman Yazhbin
Ok...
But I think you got my point in this message.
The phraze "PKs are out of hand" does not make any sence at all.
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Dundee wrote:
Dundee
How many victims per day, though? If you kill more than you die -
gain more loot than you lose - then... well, that's the imbalance I'm
talking about.
Seems like all the radically rich players are PKs.
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 14:49:01 -0400, Roman Yazhbin <rom...@wpi.edu>
wrote:
>How many times a day do you get killed?
>With my super PK, who is more than just strong I am getting killed at
>least 3 times a day.
>
>On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Dundee wrote:
>
>>
Dundee
>> ##There is too much player-killing.##
>>
>> There.
>OK I got your point :-)
One problem we've had discussing this issue in the newsgroup is that
anyone who says something like "there's too much playerkilling"
immediately gets branded an anti-PvP,
no-combat-ever-under-any-circumstances kind of guy.
And that aint me.
>as I can understand it being a bad guy is bad.
Sort of the whole point, isn't it?
>So there should be no bad guys at all.
Now, I'm not saying that.
This actually gets a bit tricky. I'm not sure I can even explain it:
I like the community aspect of UO - and the existance of PKers (not
simply "PvPers", but "PKers") provides a unifying point. PKers are
not a part of this UO community, they are an external threat. They
attack the community - and they can do this with clear conscience
because they don't see it as a community at all (e.g. "It's only a
game!")
Now whether that "external threat" is really *necessary* or not, I
don't know. Raph seems to think it is. Dennis Hefferman thinks it is
absolutely not. Either one of them alone has tons more experience
with online "virtual communities" than I have. So I'll let them argue
it out, and in the end Raph Koster will do it his way.
But, regardless of whether it is necessary or not - even those two
agree:
PKing can't be so common that all the non-PKs quit the game.
If that happens, there *is* no community. We all lose. Even the
PKers: If the people building sandcastles all quit building them,
then the people who kick down sandcastles won't have anything to do.
So anyway, NO, I wouldn't say "make it so that whenever you PK
someone, you're account is banned from UO forever". And that's not
going to happen anyway. There's not even going to be a PK switch.
You will always have the *ability* to wander out into the woods and
slaughter some helpless treechopper.
All I'm saying is: PKing can't be so common that all the non-PKs quit
the game.
And, yeah, I understand that from your perspective you're just playing
a game, you're playing by the rules, and you're not doing anything
wrong. You're just winning - and winning is what you're supposed to
be doing.
But from OUR perspective, you're attacking our community. What you're
doing, from where we sit, is amoral (if you believed that this
community really and truly existed, and attacked it anyway, then that
would me immoral rather than amoral, I guess - but then again I'm not
all that keen on philosphy either).
>Ok I will contact him via this NG somewhere in the future.
>If you planing to reply, don't post to NG only, but also send me e-mail.
Done.
I wouldn't try to contact him any time soon, though... sounds like all
the rep' patch hosed the servers.
Ack.
The Master
Dundee wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:47:29 -0400, Roman Yazhbin <rom...@wpi.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >Yep, the PKing is out of hand. As long as there will be at least one
> >PKer in the game it will be still out of hand for guys as you.
>
> What have I ever posted to make you think this?
> Tell yah what, I'll say what *I* think and you say what *you* think.
> Instead of *you* trying to guess what *I* think...
> We *might* be able to have a conversation that way.
Careful, there's a lot of thinking involved in this.
The Master
Dundee wrote:
> And you're saying that Raph Koster was lieing when he claimed to
> believe that rampant mass-murdering was out of hand. I personally
> have no reason to believe that is the case, but you can post a message
> to him here - he reads this group. Just title it "Raph Koster is a
> liar" and I'm sure he'll read it.
Probably. And since their in the lawsuit business already, he may just drag
your ass to court over it, and cost your dad a lot of money.
Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt.
The Master
ti...@enteract.bottblock.com wrote:
> And if he's gonna take a stat loss every time he kills someone, he's not
> going to be Corp Poring every Johnny Newbie who comes down the pike for
> kicks. He's going to stop and think "Well, do I want to waste a murder
> slot on this guy?" And if he's not smart enough to think that through and
> become more selective, then he's going to have a real problem with the
> stat loss.
Like, what kind of armor can you wear with a 10 strength?
Matt Allan Miller
In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.980612...@wpi.WPI.EDU>,
Roman Yazhbin <rom...@wpi.edu> wrote:
>
>
>On Fri, 12 Jun 1998, Dundee wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:45:24 -0400, Roman Yazhbin <rom...@wpi.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >> There are a heck of a lot more than "some" PKers. PKing is out of
>> >> hand.
>> >
>> >What do you want? Everyboby suppose to be a good guy? GL saint?
>>
>> I must be typing in foreign language again. Dang. I hate it when
>> that happens.
>>
>> Lemme try again:
>>
>> ##There is too much player-killing.##
>>
>> There.
>OK I got your point :-)
>Now read this: in most RPG evironments(books, games, movies), your
>strongest and toughest enemies are those of your own kind (people).
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
There I feel better now.
Naw I need some more.
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
*slap*
Now how about responding to what the person has actually said. You have a bad habit of being irrelevant.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Now if you see "Everybody is supposed to be a good guy" somewhere in
>> the above line, underline it.
>
>I can underline in my logical understanding of your posts. May be I
>missunderstanding you, but as far as I can understand it being a bad guy
>is bad. So there should be no bad guys at all. I suppose you will try to
>tell me that I can play a bad guy by killing NPCs, but there is no point
>of doing so, because there is two or three NPCs in the whole shard.
So standing in front of dungeons or at crossroads killing everyone who comes by is the *ONLY* way to be a bad guy. I
don't think you really believe that. You can only kill those who don't run, you'd still be a bad guy. There's a section at
http://www.stratics.com on roleplaying an evil character. Check it out.
>
>>
>> >And it will be out of hand all the time. People will always find a chance
>> >to kill somebody. For example, that proposal with murder count. It clearly
>> >mean that time to time you can kill somebody. Of course it will slow down
>> >some powergamers, but still PKing will exist in the game without doubt.
>>
>> You understand that there is a difference between: "PKing will exist
>> in the game" and PKilling "will be out of hand all the time"?
>
>What is your number of PKs that allowed to stay in the shard?
>Let's make it 20. I am more than positive that they will organize
>themselves and start terorizing others, who would still say that the game
>belong to the PKs and they are way out of hand.
What does it matter?
>
>>
>> Can you spot what that difference is?
>>
>> >Show me that PKer.
>>
>> Try dejanews. For that matter, there are posts in the newsgroup
>> *right now* that repeat - AGAIN - the same old claptwaddle. That's
>> why I posted the list of "standard PK rationalizations" in the first
>> place. Because we here that stuff over and over again.
>>
>> "There isn't "'too much' rampant mass-murdering in UO"
>> "PK's make the game fun!"
>> blah blah blah
>
>About those rationalizations: some of them has their point.
>PKs do make the game fun. I could never understand those who
>have a great deal of fun just because they type "thou" istead of
>"you".
Oh I'm sorry I didn't realize I was haveing fun. Somehow I thought I was a pretty good judge of whether or not I was
haveing fun. Silly me.
People don't have fun saying "thou" instead of "you" they have fun being being somebody they aren't and loseing
themselves in a fantasy world. Kind of hard to lose your self in a one dimensional Quakeesque universe.
-Matt Miller
___________________________________
Matt Miller
http://pw2.netcom.com/~matmillr
a.a#357
aka ex-Lord Vanir of Sonoma
__________________________________
The Master
Dundee wrote:
> ... sounds like all the rep' patch hosed the servers.
>
> Ack.
Good thing they tested it on GL first.
Dennis Heffernan
UbuRex9 wrote in message <199806102228...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
|Dennis, I completely agree with you. You are one of the few people who play
UO
|who has consistantly stated an abhorence to PvP combat in any way shape or
|form. This consistancy I admire. But you must admit that a great number (I
|can't say whether it's a majority or not) of UO players want to have their
cake
|and eat it too. They want to be able to beat on thieves (who, after all, are
|merely plying a trade sanctioned by OSI), beat on looters (another sanctioned
|activity), beat on jerk-offs (no pun intended), etc. while eschewing any risk
|at all inherent in PvP combat.
I think they'd be just as happy if the thieves, looters and jerkoffs
were simply not there, so the honest players could go about their business
in peace. I know I would; I have no real interest in beating on any of
these people. I know it won't do any good.
|weapons or magic or whatever in order to beat pkers into submission. There's
|no honor on both sides, in my opinion, but at least pkers take the good with
|the bad.
Hardly -- the PKs are now whining on this group about how the new rep
system has hosed them. (The ones who realise that it hasn't are still out
there killing people.)
|Dennis, just one question and please don't take this the wrong way.
|Irregardless of all the great things that UO has accomplished, and
irregardless
|of whether you have a sentimental attachment to UO, why do you insist on
|playing a game that obviously will not put an end to PvP combat?
a) It's cheap.
b) There is no "obviously". You can say there will never be PvP
protection
five minutes after the servers are shut down for the last time.
Dennis F. Heffernan UO: Venture (Catskills) df...@worldnet.att.net
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"You bitch about the present and blame it on the past/I'd like to find your
inner child and kick its little ass!" - D. Henley/G. Frey, "Get Over It"