Juan Valdez - Update
emm...@my-dejanews.com
banned for being a "problem player"
Immediately following is TB's response. We trust OSI will continue this
dialog until this issue has been resolved.
We also want to thank each and everyone of you that has posted your support
for Juan Valdez. If you haven't done so please go to
http://home.dwave.net/~chrae and show your support for Juan Valdez. Whos
next?
======================================================
OSI's response from GM Ironwill
Being as my mailbox was somehow included in what can be described as
spamfest, I will give you my take on the situation.
While I understand the fact that Datura's explanation was taken at face
value, be assured that there was much more
involved than anyone will realize except for Juan Valdez and OSI. This is
something that is between us and him, and no
one else. I know that this frustrates you and you want to know why this is
happening, but it does not concern you.
What you do need to be concerned with is this: player killing is acceptable;
behavior that starts forcing players from the
game is not. This is not anything that Datura did. Instead this is what had
to happen in order to ensure our online
customers that we are behind them, and will not tolerate such repeated
behavior towards anyone. This behavior included
several instances of harassment, exploitation, and basic disregard of our
Terms of Agreement.
Is player killing accepted? Yes.
Is one player worth 50 others? No.
Does this mean that we have to make a call that will be questioned? Happens
every day, and it is not only proof that you
cannot please everyone, but shows that you will make some that will
definintely make some people mad.
As far as the general use of 'problem player', you can see that it was very
vague and nebulous, yet was indicative of
what has gone on here. It was not done because of pking; there were several
other things that things that had gone on for a long time
and we pulled the plug for the good of the game.
======================================================================
TB Response to OSI
GM Ironwill,
First we'd like to thank you for your initial response. We're sorry if we've
inconvenienced you by including you on the Juan Valdez support email list.
If you can provide us with email addresses of the proper people who can
resolve this dispute we will update our list promptly. Also the comments
being forwarded are directly related to Ultima Online. We would hope the
rest of OSI does not regard the concerns of paying customers as merely
"spamfest."
As stated previously Juan Valdez has waived his privacy rights in this
matter. We are completely confident that an open review of Juan's banning
will vindicate him and lead to his account being reinstated. OSI could have
avoided this by being completely frank with Juan at the time of his ban.
However, at this point there is too much doubt and confusion on this issue
for it to be ignored and brushed under the rug. We've all heard of others
who have been justifiably rightly banned for cheating/harrasment, thank you.
In these instances the GMs have come right out and said 'Caught ya sucka-
Your banned for UOE use!' or 'You called him a what?! That's racial AND
sexual harassment - See Ya!' However, Juan gets a 'problem player?' OSI
banned Juan for (as GM Ironwill puts it) "very vague and nebulous" reasons?
The fact that GM Datura was merely the trigger man for OSI's banning of
Juan Valdez is frankly more disconcerting than the case of a rogue GM run
amok. Furthermore, whenever anyone says that 'this is for the greater good
of....' it usually implies certain sacrifices are being made. Is Juan
Valdez your sacrificial goat to the player population? Are OSI profits more
important than players freedoms? Are all the devoted fans of Ultima Online
becoming merely marks on OSI's profit/loss statement. Is this the benchmark
that players present and future will be measured against? We thought
everyone was equal in your eyes.
There is no doubt that Juan Valdez has forced people to quit the game. So
have many of the other PKs out there. In fact just recently Juan stole
(without using any lame exploits) the keys to a large brick house from a
player who had saved 4 months to buy it. This player had placed his pride
and joy three days previously... he didn't even have time to enjoy it.
Juan's victim became so discouraged that he quit Ultima Online. This wasn't
the first or last such occurrence and it has certainly happened with other
PK/Thieves and their victims. There are some that would say that this play
style is in itself harassing and is reason enough for banishment . However
Origin's own harassment policy
(http://www.owo.com/help/tech/gene/hrs_indx.html) clearly refutes these
arguments with the following paragraph.
"Although ORIGIN cannot control the conduct of other players, we do not
condone their actions. However, Ultima Online is a role playing game which
encourages various play styles. These play styles are not in themselves
harassment. For example, harassment does not include:
*Player killing
*Stealing
*Combat"
We trust OSI will continue this dialog until this issue has been resolved.
Once again you can contact us through our web site at
http://home.dwave.net/~chrae. Please let us know if you prefer a more
efficient mode of communication.
Sincerely,
Juan Valdez/TB Members/Juan Valdez Supporters
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Jaquar
>Juan Valdez/TB Members/Juan Valdez Supporters
Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
Jaquar - Lake Superior
Grandmaster Warrior (Isn't everyone?)
Sign the Player Name petition!
http://www.huneyvaughn.com/tmaez/petition.htm
Jack Benny
Jack
Slap
Jaquar <no_spa...@radiks.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:24:31 GMT, emm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
Agreed. I'm sorry but my sympathies are low to non-existant for assholes.
I really could care less about the greater signifigance of this. Smashing
peoples dreams, and ruining fun for your own masturabtion needs is a
pretty damn good reason to be banned. IMHO. :)
-Slappok of Sonoma
Lambert
>
>>Juan Valdez/TB Members/Juan Valdez Supporters
>
>Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
>
As I hear more about this guy Im becoming more and more pleased he was
banned.
If he does ever have his account reinstated it will be like OSI giving a
green light to all the jerks and PH's (player harrasers).
I only hope all this publicity will not affect the next similar
descision that the GM who banned him will have to make.
Perhaps Juan Valdez's guild could all cancel thier accounts in a mass
display off support for him ;) Thats just wishfull thinking.
Lambert may truth guide thee
peace follow thee
justice protect thee
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
I can't believe that they admit that the guy's harassed people out of the
game and then say that's not enough of a reason to ban him.
*IT* *IS* *A* *GAME*. They didn't switch off his respirator.
Dennis F. Heffernan UO: Venture (Catskills) Dennis.H...@gte.net
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned." -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Alex Mars
old Soviet Union crime of "hooliganism" which was used as a elastic charge that
covered anything the USSR didn't like.
It sounds like Mr Valdez was an asshole, but if that were a bannable offense
then there would only be about 10 people left on each server.
>From: no_spa...@radiks.net (Jaquar)
>Date: Thu, Sep 10, 1998 13:41 EDT
>Message-id: <35fb0f15....@news.supernews.com>
>
>On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:24:31 GMT, emm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>
>>Juan Valdez/TB Members/Juan Valdez Supporters
>
>Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
>
>
>Jaquar - Lake Superior
>Grandmaster Warrior (Isn't everyone?)
>Sign the Player Name petition!
>http://www.huneyvaughn.com/tmaez/petition.htm
-Get in step with the voices of the feet already dead in the service of their
country!
Dundee
wrote:
>>Juan Valdez/TB Members/Juan Valdez Supporters
>
>Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
Please help. I am the most offensive prick that has ever played
Ultima Online, and I was banned for no reason.
Sign this petition to get me back into the game. Specify what shard
you usually play on. The shard with the least number of signatures is
the one I will return to.
--
Dundee of Lake Superior - Skep...@SPAMISantisocial.com
Townstone proposal and Other Stuff:
http://dundee.uong.com
Jack Benny
Jack
Darius of Baja
they can skew their counts from Game Bastards.
I wish OSI would just push them onto another server and let them prey upon
each other.
--
Darius, Sacrifice Knight, Baja
GM, Ring of Steel
http://members.xoom.com/RingofSteel
Jaquar wrote in message <35fb0f15....@news.supernews.com>...
>On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:24:31 GMT, emm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>
>>Juan Valdez/TB Members/Juan Valdez Supporters
>
>Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
>
>
Jaquar
wrote:
>Well, I did bother to go add my comments. I'm sure they'll be ignored so
>they can skew their counts from Game Bastards.
>
>I wish OSI would just push them onto another server and let them prey upon
>each other.
Sort of like 'Escape from New York'? But 'Escape from UO' ?
foamy
>On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:24:31 GMT, emm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>
>
Well this might not be a popular position--but yes--I'm interested.
I think their letter had some good points.
The true measure of a society is how it treats it's enemies--not it's
friends.
I believe OSI should state categorically " why " any player is banned.
We should all protest against " in-house " decisions. If they are allowed
to ban ANY player without a detailed explanation, proof that the rules
were breached, and due process--what makes you think anyone else is
immune, including you ?
foamy
Dundee
>It sounds like Mr Valdez was an asshole, but if that were a bannable offense
>then there would only be about 10 people left on each server.
Picture this: You login to UO and make a major ass of yourself.
You're so good at it, that you actually stand head-and-shoulders
amongst all the other jerks.
How?!
Just how *bad* is *bad*? I mean, how much of a jerk would you have to
be in UO for *anyone* to give you a second glance?
Can you even imagine?
Having been a jerk to UO players (that's us) to the point of being
treated unfairly, would you then turn to the UO players (that's the
people to whom you were being a jerk) and then ask for their
assistance?
Yah, sure.
Sorry, I'm not typing a single keystroke to help Valdez.
Was he treated fairly?
'Don't know. 'Don't care.
Maybe OSI is going to institute a new policy of banning 'problem
players' as well as cheaters and harassers.
Is that *bad*? Probably not.
Laura Hagan
Alex Mars <alex...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199809102004...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> It sounds like Mr Valdez was an asshole, but if that were a bannable
offense
> then there would only be about 10 people left on each server.
Maybe. But I'd sure enjoy playing with the other 9!
McCarran Scot
Master Swordswoman
Vesper, Pacific
Driakos
Undertaker-XH (KGM) wrote in message
>Since I've experienced Juan and TeeBo's exploits my, take on TB's alarm,
>since I've been the GM for KGDL & KGC, is this.
Are Juan and TeeBo the same person? I hate TeeBo. I mean I hate alot of UO
players, but TeeBo is way up there. I am impressed at his letter though
(Juans), not the subject, what a joke, but the grammar and composition.
Well written. Why would someone who is obviously semi-intellegent (unless
his mom wrote it) be such a bastard? Juan Valdez was a game bastard. Just
my thoughts..
Driakos.
Alexander Of Pacific
Amen,
Alexander of Pacific
Alex Aaron
al...@checkmaster.com
ICQ# - 419408
http://www.checkmaster.com/
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/5125/index.html
Undertaker-XH (KGM)
Since I've experienced Juan and TeeBo's exploits my, take on TB's alarm,
since I've been the GM for KGDL & KGC, is this.
Juan probably is the holder of their money, their looted keys, and also
probably has assorted other great items associated with his account and
their guild. This is probably a great loss to TB just as my initial
banning of Undertaker for stat warping was. Moral of the story: Don't
cheat or if you're gonna make sure you've passed on the important stuff
in your account to those that won't cheat, get caught, and then get
banned.
UT
Undertaker-XH (KGM)
>
> Undertaker-XH (KGM) wrote in message
>
> >since I've been the GM for KGDL & KGC, is this.
>
> players, but TeeBo is way up there. I am impressed at his letter though
> (Juans), not the subject, what a joke, but the grammar and composition.
> Well written. Why would someone who is obviously semi-intellegent (unless
> his mom wrote it) be such a bastard? Juan Valdez was a game bastard. Just
> my thoughts..
>
> Driakos.
Two different players but both cheat.
UT
Mieke Schotting
>
> In article <35fb0f15....@news.supernews.com>, no_spa...@radiks.net wrote:
> >On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:24:31 GMT, emm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >
>
> Well this might not be a popular position--but yes--I'm interested.
> I think their letter had some good points.
> The true measure of a society is how it treats it's enemies--not it's
> friends.
> I believe OSI should state categorically " why " any player is banned.
> We should all protest against " in-house " decisions. If they are allowed
> to ban ANY player without a detailed explanation, proof that the rules
> were breached, and due process--what makes you think anyone else is
> immune, including you ?
I think they did give a good explanation.
A thief can steal from you when you go to the bank and you might run
into
this thief again and he steals from you again.
This isn't harassment.
However if this thiefs starts to pick out certain people or guilds
and follows them around for days/ weeks and constantly steals from them,
kills them when they attack etc etc, this is harassment.
Believe me I have experienced this from this Juan Valdez and it drives
you crazy.
There isn't much you can do against it, because if he went grey
he either recalled and waited till his two minutes time was over,
or he just had his buddies around him to heal him.
If such a person does this for some time to you, ok, but if this happens
day
after day after day, I'd call it harassment and IMO it is against the
rules
of conduct that are stated at owo.com.
---------------------------------------------------
Earendil dragon :) ---FOSTI---
"Not all those who wander are lost" from:Tolkien.
RPG's on the NET:
http://www.wxs.nl/~vrie0259/
UDIC d e- N+ T++ Om U1!2!3!7'!S'!A u+ uC+ uF++
uG+ uA+ nC+ nR---- nH+ nP+ nI++ nS+ nT+ x a36
---------------------------------------------------
Tequila
cast Energy Vortex and run behind houses, get it to go through the door and
kill people inside just for kicks. Yeah, remember that BUG?? That's the
kind of person he is, and the world will be a better place without his ilk
around.
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|It sounds like Mr Valdez was an asshole, but if that were a bannable offense
|then there would only be about 10 people left on each server.
You say that as if it was a bad thing.
TBerq
>
>Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
>
>
>Grandmaster Warrior (Isn't everyone?)
I'm not interested thats for sure. I was at a guys house, he and some of these
TB's were doing the old wait hidden on top of a vendor and then trying to rush
into houses, or they'd do their best to steal keys from people recalling into a
house area. I told him that that was a sucky way to play, he said what the
hell, he was doing nothing wrong.
I told him that these guys had worked longand hard to get the gold for their
houses as well as the junk in them. Told him what if they quit because of what
they were doing, just said the same old tripe,they were losers, sigh.
think i'll start a 50/50 thief on atlantic, and see what I can do to make his
days a pain. After all, I know where his house and boat are heheh. let him see
what happens when the same shit happens to him.
Daniel
Darkar LS Server
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|We should all protest against " in-house " decisions. If they are allowed
|to ban ANY player without a detailed explanation, proof that the rules
|were breached, and due process--what makes you think anyone else is
|immune, including you ?
Repeat after me:
*IT* *IS* *A* *GAME*.
We're not sending people to the gulag. We don't need Robert's Rules of
Order or a constitution and a judicial system.
It is in OSI's best interests to maintain the game's profitability, and
that means not pissing off too many people. If they're going to ruin it for
themselves there's nothing we can do to help them.
Dennis Francis Heffernan
wrote:
|Well written. Why would someone who is obviously semi-intellegent (unless
|his mom wrote it) be such a bastard? Juan Valdez was a game bastard. Just
|my thoughts..
Regrettably most of the real head cases you find in cyberspace are fairly
intelligent -- they're psychos because they're waiting tables or the like in
RL and are ridiculously overeducated, but they don't have the stones to treat
people like the dirt they think they are to their faces. (I don't have that
problem; I treat everyone like dirt in VR and RL.)
foamy
> Repeat after me:
> *IT* *IS* *A* *GAME*.
Repeat after me: It is a consumer product and service, bought and paid for,
and as such any player deserves to be treated fairly--just as our most heinous
criminals are treated fairly prior to the switch being pulled.
> We're not sending people to the gulag. We don't need Robert's Rules of
>Order or a constitution and a judicial system.
" WE'RE " ?? Whats with this " we " shit ? A tad confused as to who is
actually doing the banning ? :-) I had always thought from your previous
posts that you were literate, and possessed at least a modicum of intellect.
Your apparent ease in dismissing fundamental principles of justice, has me
reconsidering my earlier evaluation.
> It is in OSI's best interests to maintain the game's profitability, and
>that means not pissing off too many people. If they're going to ruin it for
>themselves there's nothing we can do to help them.
I don't know if this guy was cheating or not. But how you can defend a system
where individuals can be banned without an explanation, is beyond me.
You would be squeeling like a stuffed pig if you were unjustly banned, with no
reasons communicated, or recourse. And that is my concern. With GM's or OSI
not having to account publicly, it CAN happen to you. Do you trust the GM's to
act in a responsible manner in light of all the proven, and unproven reports
of GM abuse ? Without accountability, what is there to stop a GM from banning
a player that fairly killed the GM's KoOlDuDe buddy ?
In any event, I'm about to quit so it won't really affect me, but I would have
thought you would have defended anyone's right to a fair hearing--Saint or
Scumbag.
Jim Clarke
foamy
Rusty Major
Mieke Schotting wrote in message <35F85E...@wxs.nl>...
>foamy wrote:
>However if this thiefs starts to pick out certain people or guilds
>and follows them around for days/ weeks and constantly steals from them,
>kills them when they attack etc etc, this is harassment.
>
>Believe me I have experienced this from this Juan Valdez and it drives
>you crazy.
>There isn't much you can do against it, because if he went grey
>he either recalled and waited till his two minutes time was over,
>or he just had his buddies around him to heal him.
>If such a person does this for some time to you, ok, but if this happens
>day
>after day after day, I'd call it harassment and IMO it is against the
>rules
>of conduct that are stated at owo.com.
In RL, this would be equivalent to stalking, which, as we all know, is
grounds for imprisonment. Ban all the jerk offs like this.
Steal from me, kill me, but don't run it into the ground like a bad joke
told by a 10 year old. I don't know this guy, but if even half of what is
said about him is true, then he STILL should have been banned.
i think he has that good old retail customer mentality of "Bitch loud enough
and long enough, and I can get what I want". People like this really piss me
off.
Alanon[GLV] of Great Lakes
Tequila
and i know where he lives too :)
and no i dont steal from people, i had thief from a LONG time ago when
npc's used to carry really good magic items. Remember that? I used to get
heavy xbow's of power and halbards of might off those Noble npc's :(
Corwyn
>
> In article <35fb0f15....@news.supernews.com>, no_spa...@radiks.net wrote:
> >On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:24:31 GMT, emm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
>
> I think their letter had some good points.
> The true measure of a society is how it treats it's enemies--not it's
> friends.
> I believe OSI should state categorically " why " any player is banned.
> to ban ANY player without a detailed explanation, proof that the rules
> were breached, and due process--what makes you think anyone else is
> immune, including you ?
>
The big problem here is someone who did all the things this fellow did
sort of hurts his credibility. Now assuming its true it could be
the GM assumes Juan knows what he did to deserve banning.
Jaquar
>In article <35fb0f15....@news.supernews.com>, no_spa...@radiks.net wrote:
>>On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:24:31 GMT, emm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Juan Valdez/TB Members/Juan Valdez Supporters
>>
>>Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
>
>
>Well this might not be a popular position--but yes--I'm interested.
>I think their letter had some good points.
>The true measure of a society is how it treats it's enemies--not it's
>friends.
>I believe OSI should state categorically " why " any player is banned.
>We should all protest against " in-house " decisions. If they are allowed
>to ban ANY player without a detailed explanation, proof that the rules
>were breached, and due process--what makes you think anyone else is
>immune, including you ?
No one says I am immune. Point is that the issue is between OSI and
the player.
Jaquar - Lake Superior
Grandmaster Warrior (Isn't everyone?)
Darius of Baja
The *problem players* are the only ones worrying about this. I'm quite sure
I'm not one of them, and I'm certain there are very few, if any, in this
newsgroup.
You're right, Dundee. How much of an asshole do you have to be to attract
the attention of GM's?
I don't think anyone I know will have anything to worry about.
--
Darius, Sacrifice Knight, Baja
GM, Ring of Steel
http://members.xoom.com/RingofSteel
Dundee wrote in message
<052980B300B091B7.58BBF14D...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
>On 10 Sep 1998 20:04:58 GMT, alex...@aol.com (Alex Mars) wrote:
>
>>It sounds like Mr Valdez was an asshole, but if that were a bannable
offense
>>then there would only be about 10 people left on each server.
>
Darius of Baja
Has anyone looked at their site? They're offering 'protection' from their
guild for monthly or yearly fees. Such a crock. That's extortion.
Let me think, either I give you all my money and you *might* not kill me, or
I just keep my money and take my chances anyway.
I wonder if they actually have any suckers to fall for it.
--
Darius, Sacrifice Knight, Baja
GM, Ring of Steel
http://members.xoom.com/RingofSteel
Lambert wrote in message ...
>In article <35fb0f15....@news.supernews.com>, Jaquar
><no_spa...@radiks.net> writes
>
>>
>>>Juan Valdez/TB Members/Juan Valdez Supporters
>>
>>Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
>>
>
>As I hear more about this guy Im becoming more and more pleased he was
>banned.
>
>If he does ever have his account reinstated it will be like OSI giving a
>green light to all the jerks and PH's (player harrasers).
>
>I only hope all this publicity will not affect the next similar
>descision that the GM who banned him will have to make.
>
>Perhaps Juan Valdez's guild could all cancel thier accounts in a mass
>display off support for him ;) Thats just wishfull thinking.
>
>
>Lambert may truth guide thee
> peace follow thee
> justice protect thee
Darius of Baja
They close off a server and lock all characters onto it. Those wishing to
transport to another server go through an interview process where the GM's
check their records for attacks, thievery, exploitation and general
reputation.
If you pass you get to leave to another shard. If not, you get a visit from
Kurt Russell whenever Lord British's favorite mouse, Sherry, falls off the
flying carpet into the Penal shard and must be rescued. :-)
--
Darius, Sacrifice Knight, Baja
GM, Ring of Steel
http://members.xoom.com/RingofSteel
Jaquar wrote in message <35fb4952....@news.supernews.com>...
>On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 16:47:02 -0500, "Darius of Baja" <ava...@dhc.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Well, I did bother to go add my comments. I'm sure they'll be ignored so
>>they can skew their counts from Game Bastards.
>>
>>I wish OSI would just push them onto another server and let them prey upon
>>each other.
>
>Sort of like 'Escape from New York'? But 'Escape from UO' ?
>
>
Darius of Baja
Otherwise if he didn't have anything, I don't think they'd give a sewer
rat's rear-end what happened to him.
--
Darius, Sacrifice Knight, Baja
GM, Ring of Steel
http://members.xoom.com/RingofSteel
Undertaker-XH (KGM) wrote in message <35F8F1E2...@bellatlantic.net>...
>[SNIPED]
>
>Since I've experienced Juan and TeeBo's exploits my, take on TB's alarm,
>since I've been the GM for KGDL & KGC, is this.
>
Hoz
would not mind doing a tittle payback to his guild.
Richard Cortese
>
> [SNIPED]
>
> Since I've experienced Juan and TeeBo's exploits my, take on TB's alarm,
> since I've been the GM for KGDL & KGC, is this.
>
> Juan probably is the holder of their money, their looted keys, and also
> probably has assorted other great items associated with his account and
> their guild. This is probably a great loss to TB just as my initial
look out my window to a tree covered mountian range as the sun slowly
moves towards them to set somewhere over the Pacific.
BUT IT AIN'T AS PRETTY AS THAT THOUGHT!!!
I can just imagine 100 houses deteriotating & freeing up all kinds of
nice spots.
Marginally on topic, what percentage of the people you have caught RL
have not tried to lie their way out? Would percentage would you expect
to be honest about it given the circumstances found here?
John Schirpik
Dundee wrote in message ...
>Sign this petition to get me back into the game. Specify what shard
>you usually play on. The shard with the least number of signatures is
>the one I will return to.
OK OK ILL SIGN THE THING JUST STAY AWAY FROM L.S.
Kangshie Lake Sup. =D
John Schirpik
Jaquar wrote in message <35fb0f15....@news.supernews.com>...
>
>Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
But the part about getting rid of some one who ran 50 players off by his
play style was nice to read,even tho it was a example, i means that OSI
still cares about the players(or their money)
Kangshie Lake Sup.
Glaeken
From what I garnered from the previous postings and this last, Juan is a
PK/thief type character, who gets his enjoyment from flat out bothering
and harressing other players. Sure, OSI's stand is that PK/thief is not
harressment. Many of us feel otherwise.
And apparently, Juan went to great pains to be among the best at
PK/thief. Perhaps he muttered misspelled expletives or derogatory slurs
a few times too many? Who knows. Who cares?
Apparently it was enough for OSI to take action. Fine by me. One less
jerk in the world.
Glaeken of Lake Superior
Jaquar wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 17:24:31 GMT, emm...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> >Juan Valdez/TB Members/Juan Valdez Supporters
>
> Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
>
Undertaker-XH (KGM)
All of the people that I've caught (1000's) try to lie their way out of
it. Some of my funniest arrests were prostitutes, who after they
solicited me, look me right in the eye and say, "I didn't solicit you."
I've chased and caught guys with guns who seconds before I tackled them
threw the gun down and look me right in the eye and say, "that ain't my
gun, you didn't find it on me." Drug users and dealers who as I
approach them throw the shit on the ground and sincerely state, "that
ain't mine." It takes hours of very tactful and well designed
interrogation to get a confession and/or an admission from people who
have done wrong.
UT
UT
Tequila
been in most of them (as a ghost) and they're all filled with ill-begotten
loot.
Outside of the Trinsic west-facing gate go down the road, you'll see
Bickmat's house o' cheese on the left(a ways out of town), if you go right
along the wall you will see TB guildstone outside house, that one is empty
but alot of the houses around it are owned by them. I know they have
houses other places but which one is 'specifically' juan's i couldnt tell
ya. But anyone in TB is fair game to me, they stole key to our house and
looted the furniture (for like the 3rd time) and changed the sign to 'Dumb
Jew'
Nice guild, huh? :)
Mark James
>
>
>>Juan Valdez/TB Members/Juan Valdez Supporters
>
>Is it just me or is no one else in the NG interested in this?
>
>
>Jaquar - Lake Superior
>Grandmaster Warrior (Isn't everyone?)
>Sign the Player Name petition!
>http://www.huneyvaughn.com/tmaez/petition.htm
>
--
Mark James
Sforza of Occlo, Cats
Jayman
defending Valdez. He was just stating that if OSI
bans someone they should give reasons. Think about
it, you know about all the "counselour/GM allied
with PK" stories floating about. I think that's
what he was getting at. If Valdez was a cheater,
they should have told him so when he was banned.
Not doing so opens up a whole new realm of
GM/Counselor abuse. I can see it now "I killed a
known murderer, then his buddy GM FuKnUcKlE banned
me for being a problem player!"
On the topic of Valdez himself however, I totally
agree that if what everyone says about him is
true, he deserved to be banned.
Lynn wrote:
>
> foamy, will you please follow the directions below?
>
> MOUNT ZAFU(FULL LOTUS)
>
> PAUSE(IN_BREATH)
> PAUSE(OUT_BREATH)
> SAY(SOFTLY) "OM MANI PADHME HUM"
> PAUSE(UNTIL_IT_FEELS_GOOD)
>
> Now foamy, think about Juan Valdez. He is a cheater, and has been
> from the very beginning back in October of 97. We are only getting
> HIS side of the story. Are you going to make a big fuss and fight
> with people that you "know" (in the ng.) over a cheater?
>
> If he is a "known" cheater and always has been, what are the odds
> that he is also a liar? HE knows that OSI will NOT make public
> who they ban and for what reason, so all we have is HIS word.
> I KNOW this character and I would NOT believe one word he said.
>
> He was "one" of the first real AH's I ran into in UO. Believe me
> if he got banned HE DESERVED IT. He should have been banned
> months ago.
>
> IMO,
>
> LadyLyn
> --
> * LadyLyn, Atlantic
> (no address, no mail)
> * Once burned twice remembered *
Undertaker-XH (KGM)
>
> I might be wrong, but it seems that Foamy wasn't
> defending Valdez. He was just stating that if OSI
> bans someone they should give reasons. Think about
> it, you know about all the "counselour/GM allied
> with PK" stories floating about. I think that's
> what he was getting at. If Valdez was a cheater,
> they should have told him so when he was banned.
> Not doing so opens up a whole new realm of
> GM/Counselor abuse. I can see it now "I killed a
> known murderer, then his buddy GM FuKnUcKlE banned
> me for being a problem player!"
> On the topic of Valdez himself however, I totally
> agree that if what everyone says about him is
> true, he deserved to be banned.
How do you/we know that OSI didn't. When I was banned I was most
certainly told why. But even more important than that, they didn't have
to tell me, I knew.
UT
Richard Cortese
>
> On Fri, 11 Sep 1998 06:10:08 GMT, fo...@sprint.ca (foamy) expostulated
> thus:
>
> >I don't know if this guy was cheating or not. But how you can defend a system
> >where individuals can be banned without an explanation, is beyond me.
>
> a thread about banning, and the pros and cons of letting people know
> about it. I don't care who is banned, I just care that people who
> deserve it are banned. It's not up to me to decide, it's up to OSI.
>
> The only problem I can see si that we currently have the equivalent of
> Salem Witch Hunts, in that you can cry "UOE User! UOE User! Burn
> them! Burn them!".
So far, Anthrax seems to be the only one that recieved anything other
then a demand to explain how he did something. It seems like the error
rate is probably less then 1 in 300 for actually getting put in jail. I
maintain Anthrax got if for killing Counselor Violins bank thief<grin>.
$.02, it would seem that OSI is still trying to play the nice guys or
maybe even it is just a CYA kind of thing. So far, I don't recall a
single case where OSI has said "Player X was banned because he was using
UOE" or anything of that nature.
This isn't anywhere near as gratifying as hearing "MoFo is no longer
with us because we caught him using UOP", but I think that is the best
we will get.
Jayman
everything. The only point I was trying to make
was that if OSI doesn't give a reason and just
indiscriminately bans, that is wrong. Like I said,
I totally agree this scum should have been banned.
Lynn wrote:
>
> On Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:42:38 GMT, Jayman <jay...@midsouth.com> wrote:
>
> >I might be wrong, but it seems that Foamy wasn't
> >defending Valdez. He was just stating that if OSI
> >bans someone they should give reasons. Think about
> >it, you know about all the "counselour/GM allied
> >with PK" stories floating about.
> (snip)
> And all I am saying, is how do WE know OSI did NOT tell
> him. This character IS a cheater. Do you think it would
> be beneath him to also lie about the reasons given to him by
> OSI for being banned?
>
> From what I could see he WAS told why. It was for TOOOO
> many complaints of harassment of other players. Nothing wrong
> with that.
>
> Oh, and I was NOT flaming foamy, just pointing out that he should
> calm down and think about WHO was banned before he gets upset. :P
>
> LadyLyn
slickwil...@gmail.com
Juan Valdez - Trinsic Borrowers