THERE IS NO PKING PROBLEM YOU INFANTS
Olivier Dube
This bothers me more than anything? Wahhhhh I hate pkers...waaaaahhh they
are ruining the game.....Man if I only had enough kleenex for all these
little girls. ONE MORE TIME..If there were no pks...there would be no
fun...I got chased by an ettin the other day, with me 1 day old
character....wow...I ran around till he got caught on some tress and stopped
chasing me then went back to my mining. However, I got attacked by a pk the
same day, I ran again, but the tress were not so helpful this time and I had
to run all the way to town to get away. Fact is pks are smart (sorta) and
the monsters aren't...If I had to play an AI dominated game I don't think I
would want to even be there. So for all you little bitches who whine all
day long..Go play everquest when it comes out and turn your little PvP
switch on and beat on those nasty, intelligent, pixels.
russell
Olivier Dube wrote:
This bothers me more than anything?
Couldn't figure out where the question was here, did I miss something?
Wahhhhh I hate pkers...waaaaahhh they
are ruining the game.....Man if I only had enough kleenex for all these
little girls. ONE MORE TIME..If there were no pks...there would be no
fun...I got chased by an ettin the other day, with me 1 day old
character....wow...I ran around till he got caught on some tress and stopped
chasing me then went back to my mining.
Please, please tell me you are not basing your ridicule of those angered by PKs on the experiences of a newbie character getting chased outside, in the open, by a single PK, while not in combat. Yeah, it is pretty easy to outrun a lone PK, provided he doesn't have a one/two hit-and-you-are-dead crossbow.
However, I got attacked by a pk the
same day, I ran again, but the tress were not so helpful this time and I had
to run all the way to town to get away. Fact is pks are smart (sorta) and
the monsters aren't...If I had to play an AI dominated game I don't think I
would want to even be there.
Hey, I admit that the monsters in UO are sometimes a bit easy, but again, what experience do you have? Try fighting two or three daemons in Hythloth, or even 5 or 6 orcs.
So for all you little bitches who whine all
day long.
Nice sentence structure. : P
.Go play everquest when it comes out and turn your little PvP
switch on and beat on those nasty, intelligent, pixels.
Provided that you promise to stay on UO and play the victim role to all the PKs. Maybe that way I won't have to listen to them talk about their PhAt ArMoR or their sword that rox on EQ. : P
Alex Mars
You have to realize that a lot of players can't take any real form of
competition. These same people can't deal with losing. They have been too
sheltered in their life.
>From: "Olivier Dube" <oho...@cnx.net>
>Date: Sat, Jun 6, 1998 14:15 EDT
>Message-id: <6lbt5f$sd2$1...@news.junction.net>
>
>This bothers me more than anything? Wahhhhh I hate pkers...waaaaahhh they
>are ruining the game.....Man if I only had enough kleenex for all these
>little girls. ONE MORE TIME..If there were no pks...there would be no
>fun...I got chased by an ettin the other day, with me 1 day old
>character....wow...I ran around till he got caught on some tress and stopped
>chasing me then went back to my mining. However, I got attacked by a pk the
>same day, I ran again, but the tress were not so helpful this time and I had
>to run all the way to town to get away. Fact is pks are smart (sorta) and
>the monsters aren't...If I had to play an AI dominated game I don't think I
>would want to even be there. So for all you little bitches who whine all
>day long..Go play everquest when it comes out and turn your little PvP
>switch on and beat on those nasty, intelligent, pixels.
>
>
-Remember: It's not a good idea, it's just the law.
James H. Banks
wow....what an intelligent post. i'm in awe at the mentality that went into this
one. <-- dripping sarcasm.
1) In my months playing UO, and reading/posting to this group, I don't think
I've once seen any anti-PK post with the term "Wahhhhhhh' in it. While many are
certainly complaints, most are posted (I believe) in the hopes that SOME OSI
employee who is assigned to monitor this newsgroup will forward the message to
someone who might be in a position to do something about PKing, or address the
issue in some constructive way. Perhaps the new patch coming in next week, with
the stat/skill loss for murderers, is in some way a response to those? Do you
think that is possible, Olivier?
2) So, Olivier, has your 1-day old character killed a drake lately? Either with
a group or all by yourself? Granted, there is not much intelligence behind these
creatures, but there IS a hell of a lot of power/damage etc. I wouldn't even
tackle one alone, unless I could get it trapped somehow, and be able to
attack/run/heal/attack. Hell, I find lichs and other high danger monsters enough
of a challenge myself. But then, I must be a weenie compared to you.
3) So you got attacked by A PK. Fact is, that doesn't happen very often. Most of
the time, it is MANY PKs that attack an individual. If you can't absorb 3
e-bolts, or e-vs, before you get your Recall off, chances are you'll be dead.
So....doesn't really matter how much intelligence YOU have when faced with those
odds. And thats one of the problems I see with PKs.
4) Olivier, you seem obsessed with casting a female appelation on anyone who
comments negatively about PKs ("little girls, bitches"). Any reason for that?
Any psychologists out there? I might be tempted to say that you are kind of
insecure in your own boy/manhood (you are a guy, right?) to make those sort of
general comments.At least, thats what I've always heard.
5) AI is only one aspect of an opponent. Many other factors come into it, and UO
provides opponents which for the most part require a team of players to defeat.
That is the part of UO that I like best. I guess you haven't experienced that
yet. Neither have most PKs.
6) In general rubuttal to your belief that PKs are necessary, I and many others
believe that they DO add some element of excitement to the game. However, many
players, such as newbies and role-playing players, don't want that type of
'excitement' in their game. And since they paid for a game which did not
advertise pvp combat, why should they expect it? What the ideal solution would
be, I don't really know. Many believe a pvp switch would help. There should at
least be a minimum experience level before pvp kicks in. Strange, but the player
who gets killed by PKs doesn't seem to be having much fun from what I've seen.
So, where exactly does the concept "If there were no PKs...there would be no
fun" come from?
7) Last but not least, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even under-a-rock
dwellers like you, Olivier. Fess up - you're not a (gasp) PK, are you?
Great Lord Glaeken, Master Warrior - Lake Superior
John Peterson
Bravo! I was going to reply, but your post eloquently sums up pretty much
what I was going to say.
Clinton
Hey, *I* said that! :)
Well, I wasn't the first one or anything...but I said it!
bizbee <tub...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<3579a5ae...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
> On Sat, 06 Jun 1998 14:02:32 -0500, "James H. Banks"
> <jba...@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>
> >4) Olivier, you seem obsessed with casting a female appelation on anyone
who
> >comments negatively about PKs ("little girls, bitches"). Any reason for
that?
>
> As someone once said here....
> "He may want to look into that..."
>
Steve
ALEX ive fought along side you against monsters and "kewldoods" i dont think
your refering to me when you write this post but at the same time im
suprised to see you write this post. you know as well as i do there is a
difference between PvP and kewldood killing i imagine i could fight and win
against almost any PvP player out there problem is i have yet to come across
many . I to dont like losing but i really hate losing to a kewldood gang is
that where you find yourself now ? siding with a yomomma wannabe?
Steve
Zortam
Alex Mars wrote in message
<199806061852...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
Bone Shaft
Its got nothing to do with losing. I'll fight any character one-on-one in a fair
fight. However, will all the lag and Blue/Red PK gangs you can't get a fair
fight. I had a lone PK attack me months ago and he killed me. After I ressed, I
tracked him down and congratulated him.
PKing, no problem, just as long as its fair! Since 99.99% aren't fair fights,
people complain.
Alex Mars wrote:
> You have to realize that a lot of players can't take any real form of
> competition. These same people can't deal with losing. They have been too
> sheltered in their life.
>
> >From: "Olivier Dube" <oho...@cnx.net>
> >Date: Sat, Jun 6, 1998 14:15 EDT
> >Message-id: <6lbt5f$sd2$1...@news.junction.net>
> >
> >This bothers me more than anything? Wahhhhh I hate pkers...waaaaahhh they
> >are ruining the game.....Man if I only had enough kleenex for all these
> >little girls. ONE MORE TIME..If there were no pks...there would be no
> >fun...I got chased by an ettin the other day, with me 1 day old
> >character....wow...I ran around till he got caught on some tress and stopped
> >chasing me then went back to my mining. However, I got attacked by a pk the
> >same day, I ran again, but the tress were not so helpful this time and I had
> >to run all the way to town to get away. Fact is pks are smart (sorta) and
> >the monsters aren't...If I had to play an AI dominated game I don't think I
> >would want to even be there. So for all you little bitches who whine all
> >day long..Go play everquest when it comes out and turn your little PvP
> >switch on and beat on those nasty, intelligent, pixels.
> >
> >
>
Mike Roop
AMEN!!! Even though I hate being pked, its a part of the game, as it was a part
of
history. In the mideaval days, killing was rampant through duels, or just
greed.
You guys need to stop whining about pkilling, and focus on the people using bugs
and or cheats (macros, etc...). The game needs killers, and heroes. The only
thing
really missing from the game is people that tell the fantastic tales that happen
on UO
and also more quests. I remember one night at 3a.m. when a message was
broadcast
about a Mage building a tower below Trinsic, and that heroes were needed there
to
defeat him or a gate would be opened to allow demons in. At least 100 people
were
gathered on the penninsula (the lag was terrible) but at least the game had
meaning.
Nowadays, it seems the gm's have lost meaning in all these major quests, and all
that
is left is the npc's "I need food" quests. UO needs to allow more major quests,
maybe
even allowing those gm's and councillors that are on to design quests and place
items/monsters/etc.. Maybe more of these type quests will keep those pkers too
busy
to pk??
Confused
Matt Allan Miller
In article <357A36C7...@Net-Link.Net>,
Mike Roop <Ro...@Net-Link.Net> wrote:
>AMEN!!! Even though I hate being pked, its a part of the game, as it was a part
>of
>history. In the mideaval days, killing was rampant through duels, or just
>greed.
So? What does history have to do with anything? And of course it's part of game, it's the dominant factor of the game.
That's part of the problem. If you hate it, why do you defend it?
>You guys need to stop whining about pkilling, and focus on the people using bugs
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! We aren't the dev team. No matter how hard we focus we can't do anything about people using
bugs. And who's to say we can't complain about both?
-Matt Miller
___________________________________
Matt Miller
http://pw2.netcom.com/~matmillr
a.a#357
aka Vanir of Sonoma
__________________________________
Slay
>one. <-- dripping sarcasm.
>2) So, Olivier, has your 1-day old character killed a drake lately? Either with
>a group or all by yourself? Granted, there is not much intelligence behind these
>creatures, but there IS a hell of a lot of power/damage etc. I wouldn't even
>tackle one alone, unless I could get it trapped somehow, and be able to
>attack/run/heal/attack. Hell, I find lichs and other high danger monsters enough
>of a challenge myself. But then, I must be a weenie compared to you.
>3) So you got attacked by A PK. Fact is, that doesn't happen very often. Most of
>the time, it is MANY PKs that attack an individual. If you can't absorb 3
>e-bolts, or e-vs, before you get your Recall off, chances are you'll be dead.
>So....doesn't really matter how much intelligence YOU have when faced with those
>odds. And thats one of the problems I see with PKs.
>6) In general rubuttal to your belief that PKs are necessary, I and many others
>believe that they DO add some element of excitement to the game. However, many
>players, such as newbies and role-playing players, don't want that type of
>'excitement' in their game. And since they paid for a game which did not
>advertise pvp combat, why should they expect it? What the ideal solution would
>be, I don't really know. Many believe a pvp switch would help. There should at
>least be a minimum experience level before pvp kicks in. Strange, but the player
>who gets killed by PKs doesn't seem to be having much fun from what I've seen.
>So, where exactly does the concept "If there were no PKs...there would be no
>fun" come from?
>7) Last but not least, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even under-a-rock
>dwellers like you, Olivier. Fess up - you're not a (gasp) PK, are you?
>
I don't know about Olivier, but I'm not a PK (yet?) . . and
I do think PK's make life more interesting. I could get killed
by a drake all day long and it wouldn't phase me a bit, and I'm
sure that drake could care less too; however, if some PK kills me
it's a whole different story. I'm thinking "Okay you lousy bastard.
I know who you are now, and you're going down if our paths ever
cross again." I suppose I could say the same thing to the drake
that killed me, and since I don't I guess that makes me
non-roleplaying-scum, but in reality getting killed by npc's
doesn't draw any emotion from me. Anyways, I must have been on
hundreds of lumberjacking runs without even seeing one PK,
talk about boring!
Well that's how I feel bout PK's, however, I think if a
significant number of players voice a concern with
some aspect of the game then OSI should direct some attention
to that problem, and I think OSI has been trying to do that,
which is a good thing, right?
Oh yeah! I think your suggestion for there to be a minimum
experience level before PvP kicks in should be something
for OSI to consider . . .
Jonathan Aitken
Not everyone wants competition - some wierd people even enjoy playing
cooperatively.
IMO, if you see playing an online game as 'real' competition, then I'd suggest
that you are the one who's had the sheltered life (oh god I feel a testosterone
surge - must..control...)
Otara, Napa
Magnus
Jonathan Aitken wrote:
>
> Not everyone wants competition - some wierd people even enjoy playing
> cooperatively.
>
> IMO, if you see playing an online game as 'real' competition, then I'd suggest
> that you are the one who's had the sheltered life (oh god I feel a testosterone
> surge - must..control...)
>
> Otara, Napa
>
Hear hear! I really have to just sit back and laugh when I hear
people claim that if you don't like PKing, you are somehow a whiner, a
sissy, someone who has been sheltered, etc. Some people don't see the
game as a chance to prove how much time they've spent building up their
character for PvP combat. Some people have other goals in mind in Ultima
On-Line.
I was amazed yesterday when I took the throne at just how many
people told me I was weak, my 'guards' were weak and that if we would
leave the protection area, they would gladly kill us all. That's ALL
some people ever think about. "KILL KILL KILL KILL Who's got the
stronger player? I can whip three people's asses at one time!" I really
wish people like this would find something else to play. Most people
like this assert that the only way the game will be fun is to have PvP
combat. I disagree.
All it takes to have fun in Ultima OnLine is a little imagination.
Take the pirate outings of the NGI for an example. We had a few brawls
against each other but they weren't "see who can kick whose ass" type
fights. Last week, my friend Exodus and I started archer characters to
try something different. (Our main characters are mages who would never
touch a bow.) It's been a blast.
I guess I've wandered a little off the subject. Let me get back on
track. PvP is not and should not be the end all, be all of experiences
in Ultima OnLine. I understand that my saying you don't need PvP to have
a good time can be essentially considered the same thing as saying that
PvP is neccessary to enjoy the game. However, being opposed to PvP does
not allow one to infer that a person is weak, sheltered, or someone who
just like to complain. There are many ways to enjoy the game and not
everyone enjoys the same things.
-Magnus (Ocllo,Catskills)
Semi-roleplayin' Master Tank Mage who enjoys the top ten aspect of UO
The Master
Olivier Dube wrote:
> This bothers me more than anything? Wahhhhh I hate pkers...waaaaahhh they
Written like a true pk.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Remove the NOSPAM_ to reply.
The Master
Alex Mars wrote:
> You have to realize that a lot of players can't take any real form of
> competition. These same people can't deal with losing. They have been too
> sheltered in their life.
And so this is the excuse to be pk's?
The Master
Mike Roop wrote:
> In the mideaval days, killing was rampant through duels, or just greed.
BUT, when the killers got killed, they stayed dead. They lost everything. This put
a bit of a damper on their fun.
> You guys need to stop whining about pkilling, and focus on the people using bugs
You need to stop whining about whining.
Labuser
In article <35799248...@swbell.net>, jba...@swbell.net wrote:
qweqweqewqwe
> wow....what an intelligent post. i'm in awe at the mentality that went
into this
> one. <-- dripping sarcasm.
> I've once seen any anti-PK post with the term "Wahhhhhhh' in it. While
many are
> certainly complaints, most are posted (I believe) in the hopes that SOME OSI
> employee who is assigned to monitor this newsgroup will forward the message to
> someone who might be in a position to do something about PKing, or address the
> issue in some constructive way. Perhaps the new patch coming in next
week, with
> the stat/skill loss for murderers, is in some way a response to those? Do you
> think that is possible, Olivier?
Either with
> a group or all by yourself? Granted, there is not much intelligence
behind these
> creatures, but there IS a hell of a lot of power/damage etc. I wouldn't even
> tackle one alone, unless I could get it trapped somehow, and be able to
> attack/run/heal/attack. Hell, I find lichs and other high danger
monsters enough
> of a challenge myself. But then, I must be a weenie compared to you.
> 3) So you got attacked by A PK. Fact is, that doesn't happen very often.
Most of
> the time, it is MANY PKs that attack an individual. If you can't absorb 3
> e-bolts, or e-vs, before you get your Recall off, chances are you'll be dead.
> So....doesn't really matter how much intelligence YOU have when faced
with those
> odds. And thats one of the problems I see with PKs.
> comments negatively about PKs ("little girls, bitches"). Any reason for that?
> insecure in your own boy/manhood (you are a guy, right?) to make those sort of
> general comments.At least, thats what I've always heard.
> 5) AI is only one aspect of an opponent. Many other factors come into
it, and UO
> provides opponents which for the most part require a team of players to
defeat.
> That is the part of UO that I like best. I guess you haven't experienced that
> yet. Neither have most PKs.
others
> believe that they DO add some element of excitement to the game. However, many
> players, such as newbies and role-playing players, don't want that type of
> 'excitement' in their game. And since they paid for a game which did not
> advertise pvp combat, why should they expect it? What the ideal solution would
> be, I don't really know. Many believe a pvp switch would help. There should at
> least be a minimum experience level before pvp kicks in. Strange, but
the player
> who gets killed by PKs doesn't seem to be having much fun from what I've seen.
> So, where exactly does the concept "If there were no PKs...there would be no
> fun" come from?
> 7) Last but not least, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even
under-a-rock
> dwellers like you, Olivier. Fess up - you're not a (gasp) PK, are you?
>
> Olivier Dube wrote:
>
> > This bothers me more than anything? Wahhhhh I hate pkers...waaaaahhh they
ti...@enteract.bottblock.com
Alex Mars <alex...@aol.com> said...
> You have to realize that a lot of players can't take any real form of
> competition. These same people can't deal with losing. They have been too
> sheltered in their life.
And then there are those who aren't playing the game in the hopes of going
out and kiling everything they see. They're happy *role playing* a
non-combatant character.
Tirya
Farren, Apprentice Miner, Catskills
Alex Mars
If you're a non-combatant then why are you worried about PKs? They can't get
you in a town and if a non-combatant goes into a dungeon then by default they
are a combatant.
-Remember: It's not a good idea, it's just the law.
ti...@enteract.bottblock.com
Alex Mars <alex...@aol.com> said...
> If you're a non-combatant then why are you worried about PKs? They can't get
> you in a town and if a non-combatant goes into a dungeon then by default they
> are a combatant.
Take a look at my occupation, einstein, then tell me where I'm supposed
to mine. The best bet I've found so far is just outside the guard zone
north of Minoc, 'cause god knows the mines over the bridge are a) mined
out regularly within the guard zone and b) a haven for PKers waiting for
miners to leave the guard zone so we can make a living. For some reason
they seem to think it's entertaining to kill a miner... and the miner's
pack animal... and heaven forbid the miner should have a riding animal to
make trips quicker, but has to dismount in order to mine. Instant target.
And of course you can't order a fighting animal to follow you, let alone
mount up and ride away. (Or at least I've been unable to as of yet -
suggestions are welcome.)
Feel free to say "the PKers I know don't do that", because that may well
be true. But there are PKers who *do* do that. I know. Firsthand. I
have been PKed several times in various characters without ever *seting
foot* in a dungeon. Waylaid on the road; attacked in the mine; Paralyzed
and Corp Por'd while walking between Minoc and Vesper just minding my own
business. And you wonder why there's such a feeling against PKs.
Roman Yazhbin
you see there are some people who don't troll on the newsgroups but just
fight back. I think that everybody for this moment knows that I have a PK.
Nobody likes it. Nodoby want to die. If a person gewtting killed by
monster he/she would not mind that. But when they get PKed, they bacome
mad as hell.
BUT ALL WHAT THEY CAN DO IS WALKING AROUND AND KEEP TROLLING.
or posting their e-mails on the newsgroups about how much they hate PKs.
Sorry, but they can't do a shit to fix that problem, only trolling.
On 8 Jun 1998 ti...@enteract.bottblock.com wrote:
> Alex Mars <alex...@aol.com> said...
> > You have to realize that a lot of players can't take any real form of
> > competition. These same people can't deal with losing. They have been too
> > sheltered in their life.
>
> And then there are those who aren't playing the game in the hopes of going
> out and kiling everything they see. They're happy *role playing* a
> non-combatant character.
>
Dave Blackburn
Yet another Quake-er who doesnt see UO isnt all PvP...
Olivier Dube wrote in message <6lbt5f$sd2$1...@news.junction.net>...
The Master
ti...@enteract.bottblock.com wrote:
> ... And you wonder why there's such a feeling against PKs.
They don't wonder. They just like filling the net with excuses for their
anti-social behavior.
The Master
Alex Mars wrote:
> If you're a non-combatant then why are you worried about PKs? They can't get
> you in a town and if a non-combatant goes into a dungeon then by default they
> are a combatant.
Only to a murderer.
The Master
Roman Yazhbin wrote:
> ...Sorry, but they can't do a shit to fix that problem, only trolling.
Here we see an example of the worst part about pks, the way they hang around where
they are clearly not wanted, and taunt their victims. Without the PvP switch, or
any other real form of barrier to the outlet of this vile behavior, UO is promoting
the most anti-social state of mind. I will be surprised if the game is not named
as a cause in someone's insanity defense for murder some time.
Gordon Gano
The Master wrote:
>
> Alex Mars wrote:
>
> > If you're a non-combatant then why are you worried about PKs? They can't get
> > you in a town and if a non-combatant goes into a dungeon then by default they
> > are a combatant.
>
> Only to a murderer.
>
> Remove the NOSPAM_ to reply.
what about having to chop trees, kill deers, and mine for ore outside of
town? does this also make them combatants?
--
,> )\ `a_ Lord Gordon Gano _a' /(
( _ )/ /{_~~Adept Swordsman~~_}\ \( -
`(,)_,)/ Chesapeake \(,_(,\\
,<_ ,<_. ._>, _>,``==>
mike....@navistar.com
> PvP is neccessary to enjoy the game. However, being opposed to PvP does
> not allow one to infer that a person is weak, sheltered, or someone who
> just like to complain. There are many ways to enjoy the game and not
> everyone enjoys the same things.
He sort of has a point though. Some people get VERY bent out of shape when
they get pk'd. While I don't like it happening to me anymore than the next
guy, I don't understand how complaining about it helps at all.
Most of the reason probably can be traced to the type of people who tend to
gravitate to role playing games. There are, if you honestly look at it, an
awful lot of mamas boys playing these games.
Mamas boys respond to getting pked in one of two ways. They either complain,
or they overcompensate and become pks themselves . Mamas boys think that life
should be "fair" and if someone does play fair that "the authorites" should
take care of it. Once they realize that nobody is going to help them they'll
either quit or become a pk themself.
Now when pks come after me I either kill them, recall out or get killed. But I
don't see any use to complaining. Whining _is_ for kids. You have to deal with
the way the world is, not the way you want it to be.
Ridiculing pks doesn't help. Complaining doesn't help. A PK switch is
impractical and is NEVER going to happen. So people should just quietly quit
the game or shut up and play.
Start acting like men.
The Honorable Bonzai
Seekers of the Wisps
Atlantic Shard
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Clinton
Dundee
On Tue, 09 Jun 1998 15:47:59 GMT, mike....@navistar.com wrote:
>Ridiculing pks doesn't help. Complaining doesn't help. A PK switch is
>impractical and is NEVER going to happen. So people should just quietly quit
>the game or shut up and play.
Actually, "complaining" most certain *has* helped. OSI didn't build
in bounties, the new rep' system, murder announcements on the local
bulletin boards, stat loss for murderers, and so on for any other
reason. People said, "Gee, OSI, this sucks. Fix it."
I think anyone that has any complaint at all ought to make sure OSI
hears it. They can weed out the ones that are trivial nonsense - but
they cannot read our minds and know what we like, don't like, want
changed, or what improvements we'd like to see to the game.
The only complaining that does NOT do any good, is complaining about
complainers.
--
Dundee of Lake Superior - Skep...@SPAMISantisocial.com
Townstone proposal and Other Stuff:
http://dundee.uong.com
Twilight
In article <6ljlff$s21$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, mike....@navistar.com says...
Lets wade into the argument here
>
>He sort of has a point though. Some people get VERY bent out of shape when
>they get pk'd. While I don't like it happening to me anymore than the next
>guy, I don't understand how complaining about it helps at all.
Neither do i but then alot of ppl get VERY bent out of shape when they do pk
someone so...
>Ridiculing pks doesn't help. Complaining doesn't help. A PK switch is
>impractical and is NEVER going to happen. So people should just quietly quit
>the game or shut up and play.
>
>Start acting like men.
Hmm i dont know about u but when does pking means u are acting like a man? Now
dont get me wrong pks are here to stay and yes whining is a childish act. But
think of the number of times u got pked b4 u successfully learnt to fight back
or recall.
Alot of players dont want to pk. they find the act of running from or running
against pks utterly BORING. yes these players love to fight silly AI monsters.
They like to enjoy their time with friends beating up on Computer generated
monsters.They arent wimps. They arent stupid.They just have a different view of
the game.
And pks spoil that game for them.I am quite sure if this was quake then it
would be fine.This is the main argument for a PvP switch.Now DD has made it
clear that there wont be a PvP switch.And i doubt the noto system will work.
The best it can do is reduce the number of Blue EV users...they will just pk
ppl with weapons and limit themselves a little.
U are right ,whining doesnt help.But neither does playing the pk's game if u
didnt want to pk in the first place.Regarding a fairness in the game, i believe
that alot of players have accepted that the fact that UO mirrors RL in that
cheating, exploiting and using bugs, being less that "fair" and just or
honourable will get u further than those who try to do the right thing.
Sad isnt it? The game should treat all those fairly in respect to the code of
conduct.but it doesnt.Players get away with everything...
--
I can picture in my mind a world without war , a world without hate. And I can
picture us attacking that world , because they'd never expect it.- Jack Handey
mike....@navistar.com
> Neither do i but then alot of ppl get VERY bent out of shape when they do pk
> someone so...
>
> >Start acting like men.
>
>Hmm i dont know about u but when does pking means u are acting like a man?
>Now
It doesn't. I'm talking about people react to it.
If something happens to you that you don't like, be it being PKd in UO or
someone cutting you off on the road or whatever there are basically three ways
to handle it. Like a child, like a boy or like a man.
A child will go running to mommy and cry. A boy will whine and complain and
talk about how unfair it is and call the other person names. A man will
access the situation to see if he can do anything about it, if he can he will
act, if he can't he'll either accept things the way they are or remove the
problem from his life.
Given the way the world is now there seems to be a few options when dealing
with pks.
1) Get your hps high enough that you can take more than 2 ebolts and your
magery high enough to recall without fail. Any time a dread comes on screen
with you recall.
2) Build up your fighting skills (archery, tactics, magery) to a point where
you can fight back.
3) Become a pk
4) Die
5) Quit
Saying "But I don't want to play in a world where this happens" is useless.
This is the way it is. If you can get DD to change it fine, but this is how it
is now. You have to play the hand you were dealt.
Bonzai
Roman Yazhbin
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
> Remove the NOSPAM_ to reply.
>
here you see another example of another "I want to be everything under my
control" person. The personality of this type is not rare, such character
seems to acuse everyone of not playing the game by his rules. Usually they
make the rules in such way that they can benefit from them most. However
they allways prefare to talk rather than do anything to make thier dreams
come true.
Honestly could you define the "anti-social state of mind" to such a
brainless, thirteen years old, powergamer, KeWl DOoD, PK lamer as me.
Matt Allan Miller
In article <6ljlff$s21$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
mike....@navistar.com wrote:
>
>> PvP is neccessary to enjoy the game. However, being opposed to PvP does
>> not allow one to infer that a person is weak, sheltered, or someone who
>> just like to complain. There are many ways to enjoy the game and not
>> everyone enjoys the same things.
>
>He sort of has a point though. Some people get VERY bent out of shape when
>they get pk'd. While I don't like it happening to me anymore than the next
>guy, I don't understand how complaining about it helps at all.
>
>Most of the reason probably can be traced to the type of people who tend to
>gravitate to role playing games. There are, if you honestly look at it, an
>awful lot of mamas boys playing these games.
>
>Mamas boys respond to getting pked in one of two ways. They either complain,
>or they overcompensate and become pks themselves . Mamas boys think that life
>should be "fair" and if someone does play fair that "the authorites" should
>take care of it. Once they realize that nobody is going to help them they'll
>either quit or become a pk themself.
So there are only two type of people. People who get bent out of shape, and people who don't mind PKs. I don't think
so. There a lot of shades in between. And so what if someone get's upset about being PKed? I suppose that makes them a sissy
to you.
>
>Now when pks come after me I either kill them, recall out or get killed. But I
>don't see any use to complaining. Whining _is_ for kids. You have to deal with
>the way the world is, not the way you want it to be.
Yep keep everything just like it is, cause it's impossible to change anything. Generaly an argument made by those who
like things the way they are, wonder why that is. Are you really satisfied by everything in this game? Is there nothing
you'd like to see changed? Have you kept it to yourself? Or does your overwhelming machismo prevent you from speaking up?
>
>Ridiculing pks doesn't help. Complaining doesn't help. A PK switch is
>impractical and is NEVER going to happen. So people should just quietly quit
>the game or shut up and play.
Of course it does. That's why we're getting the new rep system
>
>Start acting like men.
hahahahahaha So being a man means enjoying PvP in an online game? That's one hell of a narrow definition.
>
>The Honorable Bonzai
>Seekers of the Wisps
Talking to wisps is for girls, you fruity ass roleplayer.
-Matt Miller
___________________________________
Matt Miller
http://pw2.netcom.com/~matmillr
a.a#357
aka Lord Vanir of Sonoma
__________________________________
Brandon Taylor
mike....@navistar.com wrote in message
<6ljlff$s21$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>He sort of has a point though. Some people get VERY bent out of shape when
>they get pk'd. While I don't like it happening to me anymore than the next
>guy, I don't understand how complaining about it helps at all.
Perhaps you should take a second to consider why the new rep system is being
implemented.
Just a wacky impulse on the part of OSI?
come on kid, use your brain for a change.
>Now when pks come after me I either kill them, recall out or get killed.
But I
>don't see any use to complaining. Whining _is_ for kids. You have to deal
with
>the way the world is, not the way you want it to be.
sigh. My first thought is 'Shut the fuck up, and try to see things from
anothers perspective", but that is a little harsh.
My second thought is 'So do you want a medal or something?' but that is too
sarcastic.
I have to wonder if you recognize the problems within the UO game system
that lead to a very unbalanced playing field, the ease with which some
players are able to gain an advantage through cheating or exploiting. When
there are players trying to play the game differently from the PvP, and the
PvP are ruining the game for the non's, And all too frequently the PvPs are
cheaters - should the non's be able to complain? Think about it. you can do
it!
If someone breaks into your house and steals your computer, should you be
able to complain?
It's just a computer, come on, be a man, suck it up.
>Start acting like men.
What about hte women? Should they act like men?
What an ignorant little thing to say.
Maybe you should try to stop acting like such a typical man. i.e.-
narrow-minded and self righteous.
-b
mike....@navistar.com
> Actually, "complaining" most certain *has* helped. OSI didn't build
> in bounties, the new rep' system, murder announcements on the local
> bulletin boards, stat loss for murderers, and so on for any other
> reason. People said, "Gee, OSI, this sucks. Fix it."
I couldn't disagree more. I think DD is very concerned about striking a
proper balance within the game. He didn't eliminate PvP combat he just
provided better tools for you to deal with it. If he was only reacting to
complaints he would have just put a "switch" in the game.
>
> I think anyone that has any complaint at all ought to make sure OSI
> hears it. They can weed out the ones that are trivial nonsense - but
> they cannot read our minds and know what we like, don't like, want
> changed, or what improvements we'd like to see to the game.
But there is a difference between constructive critisism and whining like a
woman. It just seems to me that the core of all the complainers arguments is
that things aren't "fair". The best example of this is the lawsuit.
To me the lawsuit is the one of the most amazing things I've ever heard of.
People who buy a game, don't like how it is working out for them, and SUE the
company! These guys are just a bunch of little mommas boys who want everything
fixed up to the way they envision it and fuck everyone else.
The world is the way it is. You can always quit.
Matt Allan Miller
In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.98060...@wpi.WPI.EDU>,
Roman Yazhbin <rom...@wpi.edu> wrote:
Without getting into what it means to be anti-social let's just say that PKing people when most people really, really
hate to be PKed and derive no pleasure from it is anti-social. And don't tell me about how much you like PvP, what you like
doesn't matter in this case.
Alex Mars
No, I'm not a yourmomma wannabe. There are too many people who whine and
condemn anyone who likes PvP. It's annoying. It isn't that hard to escape
from the bad guys. The last time a gang of PKs got me (Cormac) was two months
ago on Baja when I lagged out on a server boundry. A group of noto-killers got
Dorotea about three weeks ago because I was tired and stoned. Otherwise I
usually get away. It isn't that hard to evade even large groups (my apologies
to those who can't recall).
I started a new character on LS a few weeks ago and have only seen one PK (the
DL Rose, who chatted with me a while and then warned me to split before her
friends arrived).
The problem is blown out of proportion by cowards. Yes, a few months ago it
was more of a hazard. Today, it isn't. While I haven't been south of the
Trinsic-Skara Brae line much, the midlands and north seem to be empty of PKs
these days. I don't go to dungeons much (I'm usually solo) so I can't speak on
them with too much certainty, but the last time Dorotea and some chance met
Dreads went to Wrong we had to bail out quickly under the assault of a well
organized squad of antis. Dungeons are a place where you accept the risk when
you enter.
BTW, I only run one PK out of the four characters I run on three shards.
>From: "Steve" <st...@tera-byte.com>
>Date: Sat, Jun 6, 1998 17:52 EDT
>Message-id: <6lcdke$a9...@crash.videotron.ab.ca>
>
>ALEX ive fought along side you against monsters and "kewldoods" i dont think
>your refering to me when you write this post but at the same time im
>suprised to see you write this post. you know as well as i do there is a
>difference between PvP and kewldood killing i imagine i could fight and win
>against almost any PvP player out there problem is i have yet to come across
>many . I to dont like losing but i really hate losing to a kewldood gang is
>that where you find yourself now ? siding with a yomomma wannabe?
>
>Steve
>Zortam
Alex Mars
It's never fair. My PK on Sonoma must evade gangs of blues who see nothing
wrong with wolf-pack tactics.
>From: Bone Shaft <Test....@Ultima.Online>
>Date: Sat, Jun 6, 1998 18:19 EDT
>Message-id: <3579C05B...@Ultima.Online>
>
>Its got nothing to do with losing. I'll fight any character one-on-one in a
>fair
>fight. However, will all the lag and Blue/Red PK gangs you can't get a fair
>fight. I had a lone PK attack me months ago and he killed me. After I
>ressed, I
>tracked him down and congratulated him.
>
>PKing, no problem, just as long as its fair! Since 99.99% aren't fair
>fights,
>people complain.
Alex Mars
Sorry, I'm an old adrenaline junkie burn-out. I used to get my kicks rapelling
from helicopters and blowing shit up for the government. I was also a mountain
warfare expert and infiltration specialist. The tasks I was trained for were
especially dishonourable so this may have warped my perspective.
>From: sp...@spam.com.au (Jonathan Aitken)
>Date: Sun, Jun 7, 1998 09:46 EDT
>Message-id: <357a974...@news.ozemail.com.au>
>
>Not everyone wants competition - some wierd people even enjoy playing
>cooperatively.
>
>IMO, if you see playing an online game as 'real' competition, then I'd
>suggest
>that you are the one who's had the sheltered life (oh god I feel a
>testosterone
>surge - must..control...)
>
>Otara, Napa
Alex Mars
Magnus, your voice is one of the reasonable ones. The ones that set me off
are the people who condemn all of us who like PvP. Somehow we are all
assholes? I don't think so.
>From: Magnus <cna...@bellsouth.net>
>PvP is not and should not be the end all, be all of experiences
>in Ultima OnLine. I understand that my saying you don't need PvP to have
>a good time can be essentially considered the same thing as saying that
>PvP is neccessary to enjoy the game. However, being opposed to PvP does
>not allow one to infer that a person is weak, sheltered, or someone who
>just like to complain. There are many ways to enjoy the game and not
>everyone enjoys the same things.
>
>-Magnus (Ocllo,Catskills)
Dennis Heffernan
|gravitate to role playing games. There are, if you honestly look at it, an
|awful lot of mamas boys playing these games.
Just once I'd like to see one of these assholes say this to my face.
|Start acting like men.
And it takes SUCH bravery to "act like a man" in a video game.
Dennis F. Heffernan UO: Venture (Catskills) df...@worldnet.att.net
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"You bitch about the present and blame it on the past/I'd like to find your
inner child and kick its little ass!" - D. Henley/G. Frey, "Get Over It"
Alex Mars
>From: "Dave Blackburn" <boy...@ix.netcom.com>
>Date: Mon, Jun 8, 1998 19:13 EDT
>Message-id: <6lhrbq$k...@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
>
>Yet another Quake-er who doesnt see UO isnt all PvP...
The general tendency to damn all people who like PvP, as well as the constant
accusations that we are all cheaters/bug exploiters is grating. This is the
reason I employ invective and ridicule on the whiners. It seems that if I am
not totally against PvP then I am a cheating asshole. I am not allowed the
middle ground or moderate position. I have no use for the people who gang-bang
new characters wholesale, just as I have no use for spineless cowards who weep
all day at the unfairness of life. Both groups are quite disposable.
I find it ironic that while I have only one PK character (out of four in play)
I seem to be the PK spokesperson.
Alex Mars
OK, miners. Good point. I played a miner-smith until I got tired of the
endless clicking. I never was attacked while mining in the spawn valley south
of Yew. I used common sense, looked both ways prior to crossing the path, and
learned Hiding skill.
BTW, would you really enjoy a game where you could just pile up ore with no
risk? Sound boring.
>From: ti...@enteract.bottblock.com
>Date: Mon, Jun 8, 1998 13:41 EDT
>Message-id: <6lh7o5$5d9$1...@eve.enteract.com>
>
>Alex Mars <alex...@aol.com> said...
>> If you're a non-combatant then why are you worried about PKs? They can't
>get
>> you in a town and if a non-combatant goes into a dungeon then by default
>they
>> are a combatant.
>
>Take a look at my occupation, einstein, then tell me where I'm supposed
>to mine. The best bet I've found so far is just outside the guard zone
>north of Minoc, 'cause god knows the mines over the bridge are a) mined
>out regularly within the guard zone and b) a haven for PKers waiting for
>miners to leave the guard zone so we can make a living.
-Remember: It's not a good idea, it's just the law.
Roman Yazhbin
According to your logic it doesn't matter what others dislike about PKs in
this case too.
Alex Mars
Actually, Dennis, if you weren't blinded by your opinion on PKs you'd probably
agree that kids today are pretty weak. We have both lived about twice as long
as 90% of the people who play this game (what does that say for OUR maturity?).
I'd like to call you a mommas boy to your face, just to see what you're capable
of. If you're nastier than I am, hell, I've been hurt before and recovered.
>From: "Dennis Heffernan" <df...@worldnet.att.net>
>Date: Tue, Jun 9, 1998 19:12 EDT
>Message-id: <6lkfjm$i...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>
>
>mike....@navistar.com wrote in message
><6ljlff$s21$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>|Most of the reason probably can be traced to the type of people who tend to
>|gravitate to role playing games. There are, if you honestly look at it, an
>|awful lot of mamas boys playing these games.
>
> Just once I'd like to see one of these assholes say this to my face.
>
>|Start acting like men.
>
>
> And it takes SUCH bravery to "act like a man" in a video game.
>
>Dennis F. Heffernan UO: Venture (Catskills)
-Remember: It's not a good idea, it's just the law.
Dennis Heffernan
Alex Mars wrote in message <199806092248...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
|The problem is blown out of proportion by cowards.
Bullshit.
The Vesper graveyard area on Catskills is still infested with PKs on
a continuous basis -- I can't ride down that road without being targetted.
I'm sure the other favorite hangouts are the same.
|these days. I don't go to dungeons much (I'm usually solo) so I can't speak on
|them with too much certainty,
Covetous is still being swept on a regular basis. I got nailed there myself
two days ago; I was already wounded and couldn't Recall out fast enough.
Dennis Heffernan
Alex Mars wrote in message <199806092316...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
|not totally against PvP then I am a cheating asshole. I am not allowed the
|middle ground or moderate position. I have no use for the people who gang-bang
There is no middle ground. There is no moderate position.
If you impose your choices on another person for your own gratification, you
are an asshole. And as far as I'm concerned, you're gone.
Dennis Heffernan
Alex Mars wrote in message <199806100004...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
|Ah, an extremist position. Is this supposed to convince me?
It is not an extremist position, because there is no moderate
position. It is never permissable to pre-empt the other party's
freedom of choice.
The Master
Roman Yazhbin wrote:
> here you see another example of another "I want to be everything under my
> control" person. The personality of this type is not rare, such character
Here we see another example of the kid who, when he cannot convince someone to respect
his rediculous positions, starts a string of personal attacks.
That's right, I cut you off again, and didn't bother reading past the "attack"
beginning. Never will, either. You can labor over all those nifty words all you want,
and they will never be read. It's enough to make you sick, isn't it? Is it enough to
make you give up the personal attacks?
(Now he will accuse me. They always do.)
The Master
Alex Mars wrote:
> I find it ironic that while I have only one PK character (out of four in play)
> I seem to be the PK spokesperson.
No, you have 4 pk, one of which may be red.
Alex Mars
>From: "Dennis Heffernan" <df...@worldnet.att.net>
>Date: Tue, Jun 9, 1998 19:41 EDT
> The Vesper graveyard area on Catskills is still infested with PKs on
>a continuous basis -- I can't ride down that road without being targetted.
>I'm sure the other favorite hangouts are the same.
>
>
Then we are really dealing with a shard to shard difference. I play on Baja,
Sonoma, and LS. The Vesper graveyard/road area is usually deserted except for
pick-pockets when I see it.
Alex Mars
Ah, an extremist position. Is this supposed to convince me?
>From: "Dennis Heffernan" <df...@worldnet.att.net>
>Date: Tue, Jun 9, 1998 19:46 EDT
>Alex Mars wrote in message
><199806092316...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>|not totally against PvP then I am a cheating asshole. I am not allowed the
>|middle ground or moderate position. I have no use for the people who
>gang-bang
>
>
> There is no middle ground. There is no moderate position.
>
> If you impose your choices on another person for your own gratification,
>you
>are an asshole. And as far as I'm concerned, you're gone.
>
>Dennis F. Heffernan UO: Venture (Catskills)
-Remember: It's not a good idea, it's just the law.
J+K Design
Alex Mars ...
>
> The general tendency to damn all people who like PvP, as well as the
constant
> accusations that we are all cheaters/bug exploiters is grating. This is
the
> reason I employ invective and ridicule on the whiners. It seems that if
I am
the
> middle ground or moderate position. I have no use for the people who
gang-bang
weep
> all day at the unfairness of life. Both groups are quite disposable.
Alex I think you are getting a bit paranoid here. I have read many
modorate/reasnable posts on this group from different people opposed to a
PvP switch. My character does not like pk's and if he can do anything to
help stamp out the scum he will. But as a player I am entirely comfortable
defending the right of pk's to exist.
I do however try and restrain from calling those opposed to pvp wimps. I
reserve that for the save game syndrome players - the players who quake at
the thought that, heavens above, death migth come to mean more than being
robbed. I guess that might makes me as bad as you just on a different
topic. My excuse is that being unwilling to accept death as meaningful in a
"role playing game" is worse than objecting to being murdured by pk's -
many of whom are cheating, bug exploiting, gits - sorat like alot of the
great Lords only they don't spend as much of there time killing other
plyers through thier exploitation of the system.
Turjan
Adept Warrior - sonoma
Alex Mars
On a purely theoretical level, what is the difference between a player who
attacks you (pre-empting your choice to fight) and the game sending a monster
after you (also pre-empting your choice). I suppose you could blame the
programmers?
>From: "Dennis Heffernan" <df...@worldnet.att.net>
>Date: Tue, Jun 9, 1998 23:05 EDT
>Message-id: <6lkt96$n...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>
>
>Alex Mars wrote in message
><199806100004...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>|Ah, an extremist position. Is this supposed to convince me?
>
>
> It is not an extremist position, because there is no moderate
>position. It is never permissable to pre-empt the other party's
>freedom of choice.
>
Dennis Heffernan
Alex Mars wrote in message <199806100451...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
|On a purely theoretical level, what is the difference between a player who
|attacks you (pre-empting your choice to fight) and the game sending a monster
|after you (also pre-empting your choice). I suppose you could blame the
|programmers?
The monsters, by and large, only inhabit certain known areas. Someone
walking from, say, Vesper to Britain isn't likely to be jumped by a drake.
You can therefore avoid monsters if you don't want to deal with them.
The PKs, on the other hand, will gladly come to you.
Additionally, on a philosophical level, the AIs are not moral agents.
Sonny B.
That's not so ironic. There doesn't seem to be a lot of litteracy
among the PK community. IMO it is those "non speaking" GM this and GM
that PK groups that are annoying. Specially if they attack you in your
deathrobe immediatly after you ressed.
I've read a lot of your posts, Alex, and I tend to agree with most of
them. PvP adds a lot to my game. It is, after all, the interaction
with other players, that makes this game special. Frindly AND hostile
interaction! Me and a companion fought a lonely Dread SE of Yew for 25
mins. once. During the fight he explained to us, that he was a rogue,
killing travelers for their money. He ended up killing both of us, but
it was a fun experiance.
If you roleplay like you have stated in earlier posts, you can kill me
anytime :) I might even enjoy it.
On 09 Jun 1998 23:16:17 GMT, alex...@aol.com (Alex Mars) wrote:
>I find it ironic that while I have only one PK character (out of four in play)
>I seem to be the PK spokesperson.
Sonny B.
Bertel, Adept Newbie (Catskills)
J Aitken
This was a joke right? )
Otara, Napa
Alex Mars
I'm not familiar with the term moral agent. Can you explain?
>From: "Dennis Heffernan" <df...@worldnet.att.net>
>Date: Wed, Jun 10, 1998 01:05 EDT
> The monsters, by and large, only inhabit certain known areas. Someone
>walking from, say, Vesper to Britain isn't likely to be jumped by a drake.
>You can therefore avoid monsters if you don't want to deal with them.
>
> The PKs, on the other hand, will gladly come to you.
>
> Additionally, on a philosophical level, the AIs are not moral agents.
>
>
>Dennis F. Heffernan UO: Venture (Catskills)
-Remember: It's not a good idea, it's just the law.
Clinton
Unless it's you pre-empting _my_ choice to participate in PvP combat?
Look, in principle I actually agree with you. I have always believed in the
sanctity of the freedom to pursue your own happiness (even in the moral
priority of this pursuit) unless that pursuit restricts another's right to
pursue _their_ own happiness. But in the case of UO (and please, dear god,
correct me if I'm wrong) we're talking about a game in which PvP is a
component? Or is it wrong in "Risk" to annihilate your opponent if he's
perfectly happy remaining holed up in Australia?
Dennis Heffernan wrote in message <6lkt96$n...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>
> It is not an extremist position, because there is no moderate
>position. It is never permissable to pre-empt the other party's
>freedom of choice.
>
Alex Mars
>From: The Master <NOSPAM_...@uswest.net>
>Date: Wed, Jun 10, 1998 02:30 EDT
>
>No, you have 4 pk, one of which may be red.
>
>
Ah, a totally uninformed insult. Actually I play the guildmaster of a guild
that is evolving toward promoting the Virtues of Ultima on Baja (Cormac), I
play an elf on LS (Esselar), a ranger on Sonoma (Shadowhawk), and a PK on
Sonoma (Dorotea).
Only one of my characters will attack other good (blue) characters. The others
have fought PKs on many occaisions. My characters are known for charity, among
other things.
You are obviously some bitter person who cannot engage in a constructive
debate. You seem to post nothing but inflammatory garbage.
Normally I would now unleash some prime invective, but you're not worth it.
ti...@enteract.bottblock.com
Alex Mars <alex...@aol.com> said...
> OK, miners. Good point. I played a miner-smith until I got tired of the
> endless clicking. I never was attacked while mining in the spawn valley south
> of Yew. I used common sense, looked both ways prior to crossing the path, and
> learned Hiding skill.
1) I mine outside of Minoc
2) I know the Hiding skill - but that doesn't do a damn thing for my pack
horse or my riding horse, does it.
> BTW, would you really enjoy a game where you could just pile up ore with no
> risk? Sound boring.
Sounds boring *to you*. For some of us, we have a goal we're trying to
reach, and piling up ore and blacksmithing it is the means to that end.
So don't just write off non-combatants as "boring" because you don't like
it.
At least we're not screwing up someone else's enjoyment of the game.
Tirya
Farren, Apprentice Miner with Dreams of Master Smith, Catskills
ti...@enteract.bottblock.com
Clinton <ccprossnos...@earthlink.net> said...
> Unless it's you pre-empting _my_ choice to participate in PvP combat?
There are several provisions set up for PvP combat between those who
choose to participate. Even moreso with the new Rep system.
Tirya
Farren, Apprentice Miner, Catskills
Dundee
> But in the case of UO (and please, dear god,
>correct me if I'm wrong) we're talking about a game in which PvP is a
>component?
Good point. And a fine illustration of the difference between what is
"immoral", versus what is merely "obnoxious".
--
Dundee of Lake Superior - Skep...@SPAMISantisocial.com
Townstone proposal and Other Stuff:
http://dundee.uong.com
Twilight
In article <6lkefe$rl$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, mike....@navistar.com says...
. Like a child, like a boy or like a man.
>
>1) Get your hps high enough that you can take more than 2 ebolts and your
>magery high enough to recall without fail. Any time a dread comes on screen
>with you recall.
>
>2) Build up your fighting skills (archery, tactics, magery) to a point where
>you can fight back.
>
>3) Become a pk
>
>4) Die
>
>5) Quit
>
>Saying "But I don't want to play in a world where this happens" is useless.
>This is the way it is. If you can get DD to change it fine, but this is how it
>is now. You have to play the hand you were dealt.
hmm i agree with all your points above , currently theres little option for
those who are in a path of a pk.
My main problem is those who dont want to PvP.You know those who wish to
roleplay a role other than a tank/mage/archer/ or a victim.
While i accept that roleplaying characters have to suffer a lot more because of
the general population's inability to recognise these endevours. They should be
enpowered to do alot more than just be victims of the noto pk, KewLdooDs or the
exploiters or the abusers of the game .
this is what truly irks me as a player . Being pked is a risk . Its no big
deal.U can handle it.
Being exploited, abused or crapped on by a system.Yes then i will try to
complain to the system to try to solve this as i lack the ability to change the
situation.
--
I can picture in my mind a world without war , a world without hate. And I can
picture us attacking that world , because they'd never expect it.- Jack Handey
Alex Mars
So all you want is to put in your requisite number of clicks so you get your
master smith badge? No risk, no chance of failure, no questions asked? To
each their own, I guess.
>> BTW, would you really enjoy a game where you could just pile up ore with no
>> risk? Sound boring.
>
>Sounds boring *to you*. For some of us, we have a goal we're trying to
>reach, and piling up ore and blacksmithing it is the means to that end.
>So don't just write off non-combatants as "boring" because you don't like
>it.
>
>At least we're not screwing up someone else's enjoyment of the game.
>
>Tirya
>Farren, Apprentice Miner with Dreams of Master Smith, Catskills
-Remember: It's not a good idea, it's just the law.
ti...@enteract.bottblock.com
Alex Mars <alex...@aol.com> said...
> So all you want is to put in your requisite number of clicks so you get your
> master smith badge? No risk, no chance of failure, no questions asked? To
> each their own, I guess.
Right now, I have set myself the goal of Master Smith. Beyond that, I
don't know. Grandmaster Smith? Maybe. But it's what *I* am looking to
get out of the game. Not everyone is looking to be GM KewLDooD, KickAzz
PK.
I don't have 8 hours a day to play UO. I play it a couple hours a day, a
couple days a week, when I've had a really shitty time at the office and
am looking for something to relax me, where I have a feeling of something
like accomplishment when I make my first set of plate armor, or have a
series of perfect smelts, or hell, just enjoy feeding and talking to my
horses. Because I have more than enough stress with the real world, and
use UO as a way to escape from it.
The last thing I need is to have to run from some anti-social bastard who
thinks it's neat to halberd my horse "because they can" - I get enough of
that sort of powerplay mentality outside of UO.
My way of playing the game doesn't interfere with yours - why the hell
should yours be allowed to interfere with mine?
mike....@navistar.com
> |Start acting like men.
>
> And it takes SUCH bravery to "act like a man" in a video game.
>
It's not about bravery. It's about maturity. And yes you should do it in a
video game (at least one where you interact with other people) just as you
should when you walk down the street.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
mike....@navistar.com
> Perhaps you should take a second to consider why the new rep system is being
> implemented.
Because the system is unbalanced.
> Just a wacky impulse on the part of OSI?
> come on kid, use your brain for a change.
I'm probably older than you.
> sigh. My first thought is 'Shut the fuck up, and try to see things from
> anothers perspective", but that is a little harsh.
> My second thought is 'So do you want a medal or something?' but that is too
> sarcastic.
>
> I have to wonder if you recognize the problems within the UO game system
> that lead to a very unbalanced playing field, the ease with which some
> players are able to gain an advantage through cheating or exploiting. When
> there are players trying to play the game differently from the PvP, and the
> PvP are ruining the game for the non's, And all too frequently the PvPs are
> cheaters - should the non's be able to complain? Think about it. you can do
> it!
But once DD is aware of the problem and is fixing it what good does it to keep
complaining about it? Does it just make you feel better?
> If someone breaks into your house and steals your computer, should you be
> able to complain?
Sure I'd be able to complain but then the computer would still be gone
wouldn't it. I'd be better off to report the incident to the police, change
my locks and buy a new computer. Getting upset doesn't really help me much.
> It's just a computer, come on, be a man, suck it up.
>
> >Start acting like men.
> What about hte women? Should they act like men?
No women should act like women. Men should act like men. I figured that would
be obvious.
Roman Yazhbin
Of course I will ocuse you. What do you expect?
If you not planing to respect others do not wait for respect for yourself.
And of course you don't want to read my posts in the full text,
because you afraid to see your glorious character being attacked
by some lowlife like me.
On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, The Master wrote:
J Aitken
Grow up. I personally am not going to lose a lot of sleep over whether you think
I'm a 'real man' or not.
You forgot one option - make it clear that you are unhappy as a customer, in
order to give the manufacturer an opportunity to do something about it, or for
other manufacturers to supply the product if the demand is not met.
Otara, Napa
mike....@navistar.com wrote:
>
>> >Start acting like men.
>>
>>Hmm i dont know about u but when does pking means u are acting like a man?
>>Now
>
J Aitken
So given these experiences, you see UO as 'real' competition,
OK.....
I notice you ignored my first point.
Otara, Napa
alex...@aol.com (Alex Mars) wrote:
>Sorry, I'm an old adrenaline junkie burn-out. I used to get my kicks rapelling
>from helicopters and blowing shit up for the government. I was also a mountain
>warfare expert and infiltration specialist. The tasks I was trained for were
>especially dishonourable so this may have warped my perspective.
>
>>From: sp...@spam.com.au (Jonathan Aitken)
>>Date: Sun, Jun 7, 1998 09:46 EDT
>>Message-id: <357a974...@news.ozemail.com.au>
>>
>>Not everyone wants competition - some wierd people even enjoy playing
>>cooperatively.
>>
>>IMO, if you see playing an online game as 'real' competition, then I'd
>>suggest
>>that you are the one who's had the sheltered life (oh god I feel a
>>testosterone
>>surge - must..control...)
>>
>>Otara, Napa
rend
It's really quite simple. Some people in UO like pvp, and some don't.
Confine your pvp to those who like it, and leave those who don't want it
alone. Everyone gets what they want this way. The problem is when
those who want pvp prey on those who don't want it. Each "side" has the
right to play how they like, right? Neither side has the right to
dictate to the other how the other should play, right? Both can
coexist, right? The only ones left out are those who want to attack
those who don't want to be attacked, and since there are many who like
pvp there is no justification for attacking those who don't want pvp.
Those who insist on attacking people who don't want to fight are no more
than cowards or bullies or assholes, picking on those unable to defend
themselves or uninterested in pvp.
How do you tell if someone doesn't want pvp? They run away. They
aren't wearing armor and wielding weapons. They avoid you. They don't
attack you. I'm sure you can think of other clues. When in doubt,
don't attack immediately, assess the situation.
See how simple it is?
rend
Clinton wrote:
>
> Unless it's you pre-empting _my_ choice to participate in PvP combat?
>
> Look, in principle I actually agree with you. I have always believed in the
> sanctity of the freedom to pursue your own happiness (even in the moral
> priority of this pursuit) unless that pursuit restricts another's right to
> pursue _their_ own happiness. But in the case of UO (and please, dear god,
> correct me if I'm wrong) we're talking about a game in which PvP is a
Alex Mars
I see UO as a real competition in which I have no more resources than the next
guy except my own reflexes and judgement. My point was that anyone so
discomfitted by UO and the PvP must be unable to handle 'real'competition,
perhaps I wasn't clear.
As to your first point, I must have missed it. Remind me and I'll deal with it
(in a thread this long I probably won't be able to find it again).
>From: sp...@spam.com.au (J Aitken)
>Date: Wed, Jun 10, 1998 01:41 EDT
>Message-id: <357e1bb1...@news.ozemail.com.au>
>
>So given these experiences, you see UO as 'real' competition,
>
>OK.....
>
>I notice you ignored my first point.
-Remember: It's not a good idea, it's just the law.
Alex Mars
>From: ti...@enteract.bottblock.com
>Date: Wed, Jun 10, 1998 13:32 EDT
>My way of playing the game doesn't interfere with yours - why the hell
>should yours be allowed to interfere with mine?
>
>Tirya
>Farren, Apprentice Miner, Catskills
Well, to speak for myself only, I won't attack miners or other tradesmen who
are just working their trade (unless they have an offensive name). As I said
in a post on the PK-HQ on a related topic, I need arms, armour, and arrows
unless I want to be reduced to throwing rocks at my enemies. I also have no
desire in getting involved in the production of the above mentioned items, I
must leave the people who provide these things alive.
J Aitken
The point you didnt 'deal with' was where I said "some wierd people like to play
cooperatively, rather than competitively". Ie, maybe it's not about what you
can 'handle', its about what you enjoy.
Look if you want to play competitively - fine. I just want a way to play this
game where its not the only option. For instance - a switch.
Otara, Napa
alex...@aol.com (Alex Mars) wrote:
Alex Mars
Actually, I like both cooperative and competative. It sounds like you want
non-PvP to be the only option.
>From: sp...@spam.com.au (J Aitken)
>Date: Wed, Jun 10, 1998 20:59 EDT
>The point you didnt 'deal with' was where I said "some wierd people like to
>play
>cooperatively, rather than competitively". Ie, maybe it's not about what
>you
>can 'handle', its about what you enjoy.
>
>Look if you want to play competitively - fine. I just want a way to play
>this
>game where its not the only option. For instance - a switch.
>
>
snip
Gurvy
First off PvP is an important part of the game no matter if you like it
or not. If you took out PvP, WE would all miss out on alot, UO is set in a
time of Knights and Wizards, Bandits and Murderers, true there is Alot of
these characters on some Shards, but what a romantic idea of being the
Knight that thwarted an evil of the land, or the Mage that killed a
Notorious Villain.
Pks are a necessary part of this game, just as much as the provisoner's
shop or the mages shops are, sure many of us dont like it when we die from
a pk, But it is part of a universe that this kind of stuff happens, to me
personally Fighting in town is much less a part of this universe than Pking
is, in this time period the town guards would break it up (maybe after
someone had died, maybe before). For me personally a land like this without
the threat of attack by one of societies outcasts would not be worth living
in, sure if your a newbie or worker character, and a pk comes up to you and
out and out kills you it sucks, plain and simple, But the idea that this can
happen and does happen is Awesome, a near true society were you have Evil
and Good fighting for superiority of a Land, Taking out PvP or adding a
button that turns it off would ruin the spirt of the game, This game thou as
imperfect as it is (bugs, unbalanced skills) is as close to a Society in and
of its self that is possible so far.
I am sure that many people have fell prey to pks, it happens, but saying
pking should be taken out or that a PvP button needs to be added is out of
line, sure Pking IS a problem, and needs to be delt with, by Anti posse
groups I personally believe, but on a Role-Playing aspect of it if you were
a lone traveler back in the times this game was set and a group of Brigands
and Muderers came upon you, you would expect to die there, you might make an
exscape, but loose some stuff in the process but, that is a pitfall of your
journey, or if your playing a Miner, a Murderer could make you give him your
stuff, or if he had no morals (in this character) could kill you on the spot
and take it that way, to say that it is wrong to kill a newbie is dumb, sure
we dont like it when it happens, but that is part of this world, people dont
just kill the rich, they kill the poor, they kill the helpless, and leaving
town makes anybody a target of a pk. That is the nature of things.
Final thoughts, I know some of you might be mad at my rightings and
thing that i am infact a Pk, you are right, I have pked in the past,
present, and future , but i have also roleplayed a Miner/Blacksmith (0
magery-weapons skills), and have fell prey to many a Pk, everytime I die I
curse them, but i also thank them, for if not for the pks, then we all would
have tuff times ahead, imagine a world were the Good had wiped out all the
evil, the only reminates of it were a few dumb, weak easy to destroy things,
what fun would that be? I personally would rather live, grow, and die in a
world were being a simple Blacksmith might have its moments were dieing from
something rather than old age is a true possibilty.
Great Lord Gurv - Chesapeak and Catskills
Dread Lord Saul - Catskills
J Aitken
Read the last two sentences of my post again. I want competitive play to be
consensual, rather than imposed on me.
Otara, Napa
alex...@aol.com (Alex Mars) wrote:
>Actually, I like both cooperative and competative. It sounds like you want
>non-PvP to be the only option.
Wolfgang Artner
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 06:23:28 GMT, "Gurvy" <gu...@MCI2000.com> wrote:
> First off PvP is an important part of the game no matter if you like it
>or not. If you took out PvP, WE would all miss out on alot, UO is set in a
>time of Knights and Wizards, Bandits and Murderers, true there is Alot of
>these characters on some Shards, but what a romantic idea of being the
>Knight that thwarted an evil of the land, or the Mage that killed a
>Notorious Villain.
>
> Pks are a necessary part of this game, just as much as the provisoner's
>shop or the mages shops are, sure many of us dont like it when we die from
>a pk, But it is part of a universe that this kind of stuff happens, to me
>personally Fighting in town is much less a part of this universe than Pking
>is, in this time period the town guards would break it up (maybe after
>someone had died, maybe before).
snip
I agree 100% with you and I am not a PK now,in the past or the future.
The Great Lord Alrik,The Adventurers Circle/Catskill
ICQ 7171592
DABULLS
Being a Dread I also agree. One thing though back in the old days of knights
and
mages. Brigands/Thieves/Murderers were the few. Maybe less than 10% of the
population. In UO however almost everyone Has a Dread. Why?, the consequences
of being a PK/Thief are nill, aside from coming to town which your Mule can
easily
handle along with our friend, Our Vendors LOL!! OSI was smoking a joint when
they created vendors, this made our job a heck of a lot easier. The Rewards for
being a PK/Thief?, Too Damn Good!!
Brandon Taylor
Gurvy wrote in message ...
> First off PvP is an important part of the game
<snip>
> Pks are a necessary part of this game,
<snip>
>Great Lord Gurv - Chesapeak and Catskills
>
>Dread Lord Saul - Catskills
I agree with the basic thoughts, I just wish you had included with them an
acknowledgment of the lack of balance within the current game. It is too
easy for any brain-dead twitch-monkey to rule supreme due to the lack of
consequences for their actions (and the resulting ego boost that seems so
important to many of the 'young at mind' playing this game). To not mention
the imbalance makes your post sound a little like justification to me. The
new Rep system will hopefully yield results, and help reduce the imbalance.
Hopefully.
You made several references to how this element of danger replicates real
life, yet failed to point out that the penalties for these actions is
non-existent (currently). Comparing this game to real-life holds very
little logical weight in my opinion. It is used by both sides of the PvP
argument to justify their personal beliefs - but these arguments mean
nothing (NOTHING) compared to the value of the game play. I wont bother to
give 'real-life' examples to show the holes in your 'That is the nature of
things' statement, cause I think we have all been through that before, and
it all comes back to the game play and game balance issues.
Not mad at your writing, just disappointed with the one-sided nature of the
post. 8^ )
-b
The Master
Silverlock wrote:
> You sound like you think PvP and Pking are the same thing. They aren't
> sostop using the terrms interchangeably.
Hey, let's not become diffinition-tyrants. Without agreed-upon specifics, they
are interchangeable. And no such specifics have been agreed upon.
True, when I say pk'ing, I refer to murder-and-loot cheapshots. But no
definition to that effect has been established.
I suggest Consented-to PvP (CPvP) and Unwanted PvP (UPvP).
George
Gurvy wrote in message ...
>Taking out PvP or adding a button that turns it off would ruin the spirt of
the game, This >game thou as imperfect as it is (bugs, unbalanced skills) is
as close to a Society in and
>of its self that is possible so far.
>
Only for you Gurvy. If there was button that turned off PvP it would not
affect you in any way. All it would do is make it so you could not run up
and PK anybody you wanted to. You guys just do not get it. ALOT OF US DO
NOT WANT TO ENGAGE IN PVP COMBAT. So, why should you be able to play the
way you want and we are not allowed to play the way we want to?
Alex Mars
>From: cro...@earthlink.net (Silverlock)
>Date: Thu, Jun 11, 1998 21:49 EDT
>Killing that miner sure is satisfying isn't it? How sad, that you need
>sefl esteem from soething like that.
>
>
Actually, if you read my posts you'd know I don't kill tradesmen (unless they
have an offensive name). I suppose it's too much trouble to actually know who
you're insulting. Idiot.
Gurvy
>
>I agree with the basic thoughts, I just wish you had included with them an
>acknowledgment of the lack of balance within the current game. It is too
>easy for any brain-dead twitch-monkey to rule supreme due to the lack of
>consequences for their actions (and the resulting ego boost that seems so
>important to many of the 'young at mind' playing this game). To not mention
>the imbalance makes your post sound a little like justification to me. The
>new Rep system will hopefully yield results, and help reduce the imbalance.
>Hopefully.
>
>You made several references to how this element of danger replicates real
>life, yet failed to point out that the penalties for these actions is
>non-existent (currently). Comparing this game to real-life holds very
>little logical weight in my opinion.
> It is used by both sides of the PvP
>argument to justify their personal beliefs - but these arguments mean
>nothing (NOTHING) compared to the value of the game play. I wont bother to
]
>give 'real-life' examples to show the holes in your 'That is the nature of
>things' statement, cause I think we have all been through that before, and
>it all comes back to the game play and game balance issues.
>
>Not mad at your writing, just disappointed with the one-sided nature of the
>post. 8^ )
>
>-b
>
The 'Real Life' you compare UO to is not the same as I do perhaps , I
base this on the Real life that I learned about when I studied Medieval
times (the time UO is set) , during This time in history the 'The Nature of
things' you say I talk about IS true and holds true to what is happening in
UO for the most part, Outside the protection of the town bandits and thieves
ruled, sure there was some groups that made a personal fight for justice
(the Real knights templar come to mind), or Brute squads that searched out
for the evil doers,
Is it more profitable to live a life of Crime in UO, ofcourse it is, but
then it was in Medieval times also, the only risk (consequence) you face is
death in Medieval times and UO. Sure a Pk that dies can just go back to his
house and re-supply and come back for more. But to get rid of Pking all
together is going against the sprit of the game all together. Just as in
town combat is against the sprit of the game I personally believe.
But you are right, the true problem is not in PvP combat itself it is in
Game balance issues, no way can an archer take out a swordman once the
swordman gets into close range combat, at 30 feet yah sure but not 3 feet
The Master
Gurvy wrote:
> First off PvP is an important part of the game no matter if you like it
> or not.
VD is an important part of sex, whether you like it or not.
> If you took out PvP, WE would all miss out on alot,
Yeah, I would actually have to go to a dungeon to find something to do. Of
course, I COULD, which currently amounts to suicide, ...
> UO is set in a time of Knights and Wizards, Bandits and Murderers,
A time? You believe this is history?
> true there is Alot of these characters on some Shards, but what a romantic
> idea of being the Knight that thwarted an evil of the land, or the Mage that
> killed a Notorious Villain.
But since the rules so lopsidedly favor pk, that knight is in a losing battle.
Even hordes of them cannot slow the tide of wealth from the new to the pk.
> Pks are a necessary part of this game,
No they are not. And if we must do without PvP in order for me to be able to
play the rest of the game, so be it.
> I am sure that many people have fell prey to pks,
Glad you got that part right.
> it happens, but saying pking should be taken out or that a PvP button needs to
> be added is out of
> line,
Saying otherwise is out of line. <nyah!>
> sure Pking IS a problem, and needs to be delt with, by Anti posse groups I
> personally believe,
They have never made a difference. Without a rules change they will not. The
Rep system will help, but I will have to be more careful than ever, due to most
pk turning blue. Yours is no solution.
> Final thoughts, I know some of you might be mad at my rightings and
> thing that i am infact a Pk, you are right,
So go post this crap on a pk site, and they will applaud you. We won't.
The Master
Gurvy wrote:
> Outside the protection of the town bandits and thieves ruled, sure there was
> some groups that made a personal fight for justice (the Real knights templar
> come to mind), or Brute squads that searched out for the evil doers,
So the Templars have you fooled, eh? Theirs was a fight for power, wealth,
etc. They got crushed because they became too powerful. Read. Read. It's
actually fun. (Interesting point: would you care to guess where the Bad Luck
about Friday the 13th came from? Read.)
> Is it more profitable to live a life of Crime in UO, ofcourse it is, but
> then it was in Medieval times also, the only risk (consequence) you face is
> death in Medieval times and UO.
Interestingly enough, there is truth in this. One reason there wasn't more in
the way of financial crime in midieval europe is that there just wasn't that
much money. Really. For many centuries, gold and silver had moved east, buying
things from india and the orient, till by AD 1000 there was not really much
left. Barter is a terrible form of economy. This is another of the chief
reasons why the dark ages were so dark, and lasted so long. It's interesting to
note that the discovery of new silver mines in germany marked the beginning of
the end of the dark ages.
So why would someone pick pockets, if all they're going to get is a potato?
Unless that potato represents the greatest wealth you can lay your hands on at
the moment.
> But to get rid of Pking all together is going against the sprit of the game
> all together. Just as in
> town combat is against the sprit of the game I personally believe.
Mass murder-and-looting is certainly against the spirit of the game. The box
does not warn me of this. Nor do the instructions.
What is needed, assuming that nothing more game-balancing than the Rep system
comes along, is the Switch.
> But you are right, the true problem is not in PvP combat itself it is in
> Game balance issues, no way can an archer take out a swordman once the
> swordman gets into close range combat, at 30 feet yah sure but not 3 feet
And to deal with an adventuring party suddenly getting blasted by hidden pk Corp
Por Corp Por Corp Por Corp Por Corp Por Corp Por Corp Por You are dead? Rep
system may slow it down, and more may go to casual blue pk'ing, but I don't see
the danger index, or the disruption of the game due to having to take such
extreme precautions as never trusting ANYone, blue or not, being reduced enough
to let me play the game the way it's advertised. The Switch would.
Dundee
On Tue, 09 Jun 1998 23:12:26 GMT, mike....@navistar.com wrote:
>> Actually, "complaining" most certain *has* helped. OSI didn't build
>> in bounties, the new rep' system, murder announcements on the local
>> bulletin boards, stat loss for murderers, and so on for any other
>> reason. People said, "Gee, OSI, this sucks. Fix it."
>
>I couldn't disagree more. I think DD is very concerned about striking a
>proper balance within the game. He didn't eliminate PvP combat
There is a difference between PKing and PvP combat.
>But there is a difference between constructive critisism and whining like a
>woman.
Which is that particular line supposed to be?
Dundee
On 09 Jun 1998 23:02:45 GMT, alex...@aol.com (Alex Mars) wrote:
>Magnus, your voice is one of the reasonable ones. The ones that set me off
>are the people who condemn all of us who like PvP. Somehow we are all
>assholes? I don't think so.
Who is saying that, Alex?
People who like to slaughter unwilling (and ill prepared) oponents
*are* assholes. That's what I call a PK. I'm assuming that you think
they're assholes, too - which is why you don't kill tradesmen,
newbies, etc. Am I wrong?
People that enjoy PvP combat I don't have the tiniest little problem
with. At all. More power to you, good luck, and all that.
Clinton
As near as I can figure, it is *only* Mr. Heffernan who objects to *all*
PvP. Everyone else seems quite willing to let CPvP continue alongside CRP.
Dundee wrote in message
<217A26D874A6782A.68E6D789...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
Slay
Dun...@LakeSuperior.Shard (Dundee) wrote:
>People who like to slaughter unwilling (and ill prepared) oponents
>*are* assholes. That's what I call a PK. I'm assuming that you think
>they're assholes, too - which is why you don't kill tradesmen,
>newbies, etc. Am I wrong?
>
Under the new system, PK's who slaughter unwilling and ill prepared
opponents are probably smart. I'm not excusing this behaviour,
but with the threat of stat loss it becomes somewhat of a
necessity.
The Master
Slay wrote:
> Under the new system, PK's who slaughter unwilling and ill prepared
> opponents are probably smart. I'm not excusing this behaviour,
> but with the threat of stat loss it becomes somewhat of a
> necessity.
The new system places a premium on finding someone who has enough stuff to
profit you in murdering, but not enough stuff to waste you (didn't notice that
wand in there, eh?). Only the truly arrogant (stupud, [Sauron]) believe they
are going to be successfull Murderers for long. When you're red, everyone who
can throw a stone is going to be gunning for you to collect whatever bounty
there is (and your stuff), and when you die you take stuff loss AND stat loss.
So I believe we will see a shift to occasional (per person) blue pk'ing, which
is best defended against by carrying little of value (to make yourself not
worth the 1 per 8 hours kill), and (as we have already seen) massive Npk'ing.
People are going to learn to heed those criminal warnings! And bugs (like I
ran into last night, almost flagged criminal for helping a blue) are going to
get a lot of good people killed.
J+K Design
Gurvy
>
> The 'Real Life' you compare UO to is not the same as I do perhaps ,
I
> base this on the Real life that I learned about when I studied Medieval
> times (the time UO is set) , during This time in history the 'The Nature
of
> things' you say I talk about IS true and holds true to what is happening
in
> UO for the most part, Outside the protection of the town bandits and
thieves
> ruled, sure there was some groups that made a personal fight for justice
> (the Real knights templar come to mind), or Brute squads that searched
out
> for the evil doers,
This isn't quite right from my understanding of medieval society. The
nobility and their retainers had a virtual monopoly on weapons of war and
where both the law and the outlaws most of the time - the templers where
little different. Actual bandits existed, but they were generally out of
work mercanaries so even there its not quite what it seems.
So how safe was medieval society - that all depends who you were. As a
knightly type you reasonably safe from random violence (even bandits would
probably ransom you) but as a merchant or peasant life was pretty
uncertain.
> Is it more profitable to live a life of Crime in UO, ofcourse it is,
but
> then it was in Medieval times also, the only risk (consequence) you face
is
> death in Medieval times and UO.
Well death sorta means completely different things in UO than in Medieval
times. which made a life of crime very dodgy. however life as a legal
criminal - a member of the nobility - life was far more secure.
In some ways what we need in UO is to give PK's a "legitimate" basis for
their lust for violence and oither pk's to aim it at. The guild wars is
obviously aimed at this but i think it would be great if we could go beyond
this and have real political/military struggles in Britannia which had
players on both sides. In this context random killers would be in a much
more dodgy situation compared to ther organised and cohesive killers drawen
together around a cause.
Turjan
Adept Warrior - sonoma
Dennis Heffernan
Alex Mars wrote in message
<199806092335...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
|Actually, Dennis, if you weren't blinded by your opinion on PKs you'd
probably
|agree that kids today are pretty weak.
Oh, hardly. I feel sorry for teachers today (at least in my area) who
have
to take verbal and sometimes physical abuse from six-foot tall, 180 pound
"minors" while unable to defend themselves due to legal repercussions...and
usually being smaller than the punk, too.
|I'd like to call you a mommas boy to your face, just to see what you're
capable
|of. If you're nastier than I am, hell, I've been hurt before and recovered.
Most people won't try to piss off a 6'2" Irishman. ;-)
Dennis F. Heffernan UO: Venture (Catskills) df...@worldnet.att.net
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"You bitch about the present and blame it on the past/I'd like to find your
inner child and kick its little ass!" - D. Henley/G. Frey, "Get Over It"
Dennis Heffernan
Clinton wrote in message <6lm71t$q7r$1...@argentina.it.earthlink.net>...
|Unless it's you pre-empting _my_ choice to participate in PvP combat?
Your choice is not valid, as it is predicated on denying others their
ability to chose not to participate.
|pursue _their_ own happiness. But in the case of UO (and please, dear god,
|correct me if I'm wrong) we're talking about a game in which PvP is a
|component?
It is _possible_ to engage in PvP combat; that does not mean that it is
right to do so. The option is not justified by its availability.
|Or is it wrong in "Risk" to annihilate your opponent if he's
|perfectly happy remaining holed up in Australia?
The only point in playing Risk is to take territory from opponents.
PvP is not the point of UO.
Dennis Heffernan
Alex Mars wrote in message
<199806101505...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
|I'm not familiar with the term moral agent. Can you explain?
|
Basically, a moral agent is an entity capable of making
a choice of action based on ethics. Being a moral agent is
pretty much contingent on having free will and intelligence,
whatever you think those are. Robots, currently-available
AIs, animals (in most peoples' view) and natural disasters
are not moral agents. Other people are.
Dennis Heffernan
mike....@navistar.com wrote in message <6lmqfc$eul$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
|It's not about bravery. It's about maturity.
There is nothing immature about a) refusing to engage in a no-win
activity and b) seeking redress of grievances, a principle this country
was founded upon.
Your macho-bullshit attitude is out of line. This is a game; it
is supposed to be a form of entertainment.
Dennis Heffernan
Alex Mars wrote in message
<199806110015...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
|I see UO as a real competition in which I have no more resources than the
next
|guy except my own reflexes and judgement. My point was that anyone so
|discomfitted by UO and the PvP must be unable to handle 'real'competition,
|perhaps I wasn't clear.
Eh?
I've been a gamer all of my life. I've played hardcore wargames
(_Third Reich_, _Squad Leader_, _Air War_, _Star Fleet Battles_, etc.)
and was (and am) good at them. I've played RPG's almost as long as
they've existed. I was a heavy Magic player from the release of RV
to the release of Mirage, and a casual one till the release of Tempest
(quitting because I found the game to be too limited, and I didn't
like WoTC's increasingly-assholic corporate policies). I ran two
local groups and was regarded as one of the people to beat. (Never
got into the tourney scene much though; too random for my tastes.)
And I am "unable to handle real competition"?
You make me laugh. Really.
Dennis Heffernan
Clinton wrote in message <6ls8f5$74t$1...@ecuador.it.earthlink.net>...
|As near as I can figure, it is *only* Mr. Heffernan who objects to *all*
|PvP. Everyone else seems quite willing to let CPvP continue alongside CRP.
"Consensual PvP" is so rare as to be of no account. The PKs could have
had guild wars any time they wanted to. They chose to attack the unwilling
instead.
Damocles
>Clinton wrote in message <6ls8f5$74t$1...@ecuador.it.earthlink.net>...
>|As near as I can figure, it is *only* Mr. Heffernan who objects to *all*
>|PvP. Everyone else seems quite willing to let CPvP continue alongside CRP.
>
>
> "Consensual PvP" is so rare as to be of no account. The PKs could have
>had guild wars any time they wanted to. They chose to attack the unwilling
>instead.
It's funny, Dennis...you're the only one left in this newsgroup still
complaining about pkilling. Most of us are aware that pkilling has
dropped drastically and that what's left is how OSI originally
intended it to be: extremely risky and only undertaken by a very few
people.
Sure, there are exploits right now that allow for the equivalent of
pkilling (the guarded item bug being the most blatant), but they will
be removed over the next few weeks.
Remember, the previous attempts at controlling pkilling were simply
attempts at balancing combat rather than addressing the root problem.
Decreasing spell damage while fixing archery simply turned all the
pkillers into archers. This patch takes aim at pkilling itself, and I
think it's going to work in the long term.