What games are on your hard drive?
Larryboy Dragon aka Tel Prydain
what games are people playing?
I have settled into Neverwinter Nights. The amount of user baced stuff
out there is amazing. And on-line play with a good group is like
nothing else.
Other then that, I've been through Deus Ex [yay, Mr W Specter!],
Warcraft 3, all the Baldur's Gate games, the Fallout games and (of
course) Planescape: Torment.
There is still nothing quite like Ultima, is there? The world detail,
the individual people (with their own lives) or the whole "virtue"
thing. I am glad that Blackisle and Bioware are both involved with
great RPGs, but nothing is ever as good as "the good old days".
Zac Bond
I will be extremely literal as to the title. I will search for
everything labeled *.exe and list the games:
Age of Empitres II
Civilization II Multiplayer Gold
Half Life [Theoretically; I lost the CD key]
Puzzle Master 2
Ultima Online
Solitaire
Minesweeper
Hearts
Scorched Earth (The tank-shooting game from ~1994, not the recent one)
Akalabeth
Martian Dreams
Savage Empire
Serpent Islse
Transland
Ultima 1
Ultima 2
Ultima 3
Ultima 4
Ultima 5
Ultima 6
Ultima 7
Ultima 8
Ultimuh
Ultima Underworld
Ultima Underworld 2
I have not played any of these games since the summer, when I played a
fair bit of AOE II and Civ II with a friend of mine.
I am not an especially fun guy :-P
-Ophidian
Pibbur
Games I'm actively playing:
Wizardry 8
Morrowind
Games I play now and then:
Halflife: Blueshift
Tomb Raider 4
The Thing
Games dormant on my hard drive, waiting to be finished:
Baldur's gate 1
Deus Ex
Hexen2: Portal of Praevius
Revenant
Wizards and Warriors
Games dormant on my shelf, waiting to be installed:
Somehow this category reminds me of 1000 days of christmas. (*very quickly*)
NO, I'M NOT GOING TO SUGGEST ANOTHER THREAD!
--
Pibbur Dragon -===(UDIC)===- aka larsg (lars-gunnar hartveit)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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d e++ N+ T- Om+ U4567'!S'!89!A!LM! u uC++ uF- uG+ uLB+ uA+ nC nH+ nPT
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Wtcher
larrybo...@yahoo.com says...
I must say that Planescape Torment is my favourite CRPG. Right afterward
would be UVII and SI, not in any order.
Right now, I have installed:
Neverwinter Nights
--
-==[UDIC]==-
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=250697
David & Barbara Schmidt
Zac Bond wrote:
> I will be extremely literal as to the title. I will search for
> everything labeled *.exe and list the games:
Sounds like a good idea:
Stuff I run occasionally:
FreeCell
Hearts
Apple2PC - For running Apple 2 verions of AK, U1-U3
Exult
Ultima 4
Stuff Mrs. Chocolate Breathing runs occasionally:
Pong
Who Wants to be a Millionaire
Super Rebound 3
Adventure Pinball
PacMania 3D
Arcade Mah Jongg
Cowtris
Thinking Blocks
Free Tetrix
Alien Hunt
3D Mah Jongg
Pball95
Ublast95
Radon
Asteroids
Bug Swat
Stuff that's there because I'm too lazy to get rid of it:
Solitaire
Basically, I'm working backwards playing U9 down to Akalabeth. I'm
currently about halfway through U4.
Chocolate Breathing Dragon
--
The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day
that they start making vacuum cleaners.
Tormod Haugen
message news:98a0959d.02110...@posting.google.com...
> I'm just wondering, now that there is no real hope of another Ultima,
> what games are people playing?
>
U7' through Exult.
Angband 3.0.1 (ASCII dungeon crawl: Think Rogue, NetHack. Or Diablo on
steroids)
Occationally:
NWN
PS:Torment
Civ 3
On disk...:
Ultima Collection
Jagged Alliance 2 & UB
Oh, drop it. 20 or so GB of *not new* stuff.
Vapour Dragon
--
.sig?
Samurai
>I'm just wondering, now that there is no real hope of another Ultima,
>what games are people playing?
Regularly:
Freecell, Diablo II, Deus Ex.
Played sometimes:
Fallout II, Age of Kings, Solitaire, Thief, Alleycat (yay!), U6, U7SI,
Martian Dreams, Quake III, Typing of the Dead, Cueball, Xenon 2.
Installed, no longer really played:
Gods, Incoming, Total Annihilation, Virtua Fighter II, Hearts, Speedball
II.
Not installed but CD-ROMs/disks still around:
The rest of the Ultimas (must get round to playing those again) and
many, many others. I buy games based on good reviews, even when I don't
have the system to play them, and then discover that, by the time I do,
I don't /have/ the time. <:)
[munch]
>Other then that, I've been through Deus Ex [yay, Mr W Specter!],
>Warcraft 3, all the Baldur's Gate games, the Fallout games and (of
>course) Planescape: Torment.
>
>There is still nothing quite like Ultima, is there? The world detail,
>the individual people (with their own lives) or the whole "virtue"
>thing. I am glad that Blackisle and Bioware are both involved with
>great RPGs, but nothing is ever as good as "the good old days".
I dunno -- Deus Ex is as good a game as the Underworlds, in a more
action-oriented way, and Fallout is as good as any Ultima. Nostalgia is
great, but shouldn't cloud one's judgement, I think. :)
--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
\ `^--^ \\\\\///// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
\ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a26
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
Helgraf Dragon
Baldur's Gate II / Throne of Bhaal
Fallout
Fallout 2
Fallout Tactics
Wizardry : Bane of the Cosmic Forge
The Sims : Basic + all expansions except the Deluxe Creator thingie
Princess Maker 2
Master of Orion II
Ultima I-VI
Ultima VII & Serpent Isle (Exult)
Ultima VII & Serpent Isle (w/ U7Run)
Septerra Core
Hearts
Minesweeper
Solitare
FreeCell
Via GMud32:
Aarchon (MUD)
Ashes to Ashes (Vampire MUSH)
Cuendillar (Wheel of Time MUSH)
Hogwarts Express (Harry Potter MUSH that is dying)
Medievia (MUD - professional)
Weyrmount II (MOO)
On administrative leave:
Planescape: Torment
Diablo II / Lord of Destruction
--
Helgraf Dragon, NSA Dragon, Echelon Liason, Fossil
Chronicler of the Circle of Dragons, King of Sloth
__ The Exodus of the *Other Side*; Psychological torch
/__\ d++ e++ N T-- Om+ U1!23!4!5!6!7'!S'!8!KA!L!
/|__|\ u+++ uC++ uF uG++ uLB+ uA++ nC+ nH+ nP+ nI+ nPT nS++
|----| nT+ y++ a27;a1728 Mao Count : 5, Plonk Count : 5
|_||_| When your home is a torus, expect curves.
Hoki-Aamrel the Cherry-red Dragon (Urpo Lankinen)
> I'm just wondering, now that there is no real hope of another Ultima,
> what games are people playing?
"Personally, most recently Neverwinter Nights, Myth II and Myth III,
and Nethack.
"Oh, and recently got back the big interest in playing U7, too, mostly
because I discovered the wonderful screenshot capability in
Exult... (the photo journal thing on my home page needs to be updated
too.)"
--
================= Hoki-aamrel the Cherry-red Dragon =========================
DC2.Dw Gm L5.2m W T- Phflwt Sks http://www.geocities.com/hoki_dragon/
Cre\re^,wre+\re^ Bfl A? Fr++^ Yahoo!: hoki_dragon -==(UDIC)==-
Nn M- O? H++ $ Fc R-- Ac++ J+ "It does not do to leave a live dragon
S++ U? I-# V+++ Q++ Tc++ out of your calculations."
Ashikaga
> I'm just wondering, now that there is no real hope of another Ultima,
> what games are people playing?
>
> I have settled into Neverwinter Nights. The amount of user baced stuff
> out there is amazing. And on-line play with a good group is like
> nothing else.
>
> Other then that, I've been through Deus Ex [yay, Mr W Specter!],
> Warcraft 3, all the Baldur's Gate games, the Fallout games and (of
> course) Planescape: Torment.
Unfortunately, I don't keep game in my HDDs just because I might play them
sometime in the future. I keep cleaning games from my HDDs once I've
through them. But for now, I have Rollercoaster Tycoon II, The Sims, a
Nancy Drew game..., and Tropico on my HDDs. Nothing RPG, because I've not
have time for them at this time, and I'll install NWN once we've settled on
the schedule. I don't have (relatively) spacious HDDs, so I need to free
them out for Windows (yes, it affects performance a lot)....
> There is still nothing quite like Ultima, is there? The world detail,
> the individual people (with their own lives) or the whole "virtue"
> thing. I am glad that Blackisle and Bioware are both involved with
> great RPGs, but nothing is ever as good as "the good old days".
I really like Ultima for the reason you listed there. I like people are
pressed on with their lives in U7, and I like making breads.
Ashikaga
James Dowd
message news:98a0959d.02110...@posting.google.com...
Hmm... at the moment I'm between games (starting a new one as soon as I
finish reading today's new posts :) ) But, as for my hard drive...
Ultima VII - in an attempt to show my roommate that old games can be
good (the attempt seems to have failed - damn console fans! :) )
Serpent Isle - Just beat it for the first time last night... er, this
morning. HALLELUJAH!
Ultima 3, 5, 6 - Still haven't beaten them, perhaps soon?
Martian Dreams - After I found a copy of this "new" a few years ago, I
resolved to play it... eventually
Ultima 9 - I might actually play it, now that I'm sorta "renting" a good
video card... we shall see
Baldur's Gate I/II and both expansions - Actually, they're uninstalled,
but the saves are there... good games, but I've beaten them and
therefore they shall be shunned :)
Icewind Dale II - Someone has my CD's, but I have a level 16 party
waiting to see if Heart of Fury mode is at all worth playing.
Forgotten Realms Silver Archive - Just in case I *ever* don't have a
game to play, here's a dozen or so old school AD&D games I got for $5 :D
Hmm... other than that I generally play Frequency (PS2), Animal Crossing
(GC), I suppose I'll *eventually* finish Mario Sunshine (GC), and there
are a number of other games I want, but can't afford/are not out yet
(e.g., the Metroids, the Icewind Dale 1 collection, Planescape: Torment,
the Fallout double case, the new SmackDown! game) and I have 11 PS1
RPG's I've never beaten but will eventually... but I won't list them
here, because this post is already way too long.
Yeah, looks like I'm booked until I'm 34 or so. :D
--
James Dowd - Talraen Dragon
-=(UDIC)=- -=(*UnSPLUT!*)=-
jdo...@longisland.poly.edu
"Talraen" on AOL Instant Messenger
Larryboy Dragon aka Tel Prydain
> I must say that Planescape Torment is my favourite CRPG. Right afterward
> would be UVII and SI, not in any order.
Neverwinter Nights, U7 and PS:T are all tied for my top place. They
are all great games and it's too hard to choose.
U7 = The most "alive" RPG world ever made. I uised to follow people
around just to see what they did in their day to day lives.
PS:T = Best. Story. Ever. Great writing and NPCs make this the top
story I have ever seen. Gives most books and movies a run for their
money.
NWN = When you find a good game it becomes the greatest RPG experence
ever - at all other times it's just average.
> Right now, I have installed:
> Neverwinter Nights
Niiiiice. Do you play on-line, and if so what is your online name? I
love the new buddy lists that lets you track your friends.
Zac Bond
"Samurai" <Sam...@his.reply-to.address> wrote in message
news:3dc54a8c...@news.demon.co.uk...
> I dunno -- Deus Ex is as good a game as the Underworlds, in a more
> action-oriented way, and Fallout is as good as any Ultima. Nostalgia
is
> great, but shouldn't cloud one's judgement, I think. :)
Hmm, my experience with Fallout was brief, but I thought it was crap.
Then again, I never liked sci-fi RPG's. I remember those goofy combined
medieval/sci-fi RPG's my brother used to play for the Genesis...Phantasy
Star was one of them, I think. The concept of one party member fighting
with a sword and the other with a "Mega Blaster" made no sense. Then
they just had to throw magic into it, to make life a little more
incoherent. I groaned loudly when I saw a picture of the most recent
incarnation of Blackthorn the Borg for Ultima Online.
Assuming Fallout is the game I think it is, I do have a funny story to
recount. Supposedly, my brother decided to play a game with a character
whose luck attribute was extremely high. Within the first half hour of
playing, he found a 'crashed ship' with the most powerful weapons in the
game and a large quantity of whatever was used for money.
I remember enjoying Daggerfall, though. Or rather, enjoying the concept
of being in a gigantic world, with huge numbers of people, even if much
of it was repetitive. If someone could do that kind of game right, it
would be very fun. I still remember the interiors of houses where
everybody looked like a cardboard movie advertisement, LOL.
-Ophidian
Lumina Dragon
Helgraf Dragon wrote:
>
> Baldur's Gate / Tales of the Sword Coast
Let's see. I have:
Ultima Collection.
A second copy of U7, because the first got rather, ah, U7Wizard-ed.
Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss
Star Trek: Birth of the Federation
Castles
Castles II: Siege and Conquest
Diablo (+ Hellfire expansion)
Paladin 2
Bard's Tale Construction Set
Caesar III
Pharaoh (+ Cleopatra expansion)
Spelljammer: Pirates of Realmspace
Planescape: Torment
Age of Empires (+ Rise of Rome expansion)
Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings (+ The Conquerors expansion)
If it counts, the AD&D Core Rules CD-ROM 2.0 (+ Expansion)
And a plethora of games that came with the computer as well as value
games, which I couldn't even BEGIN to list.
Until recently (~3 mo), the following could have been listed:
Bard's Tale 1
Bard's Tale 2
Ultima Underworld II: Labyrinth of Worlds
Eye of the Beholder
Dungeon Hack
(maybe a few other DOS games I had to reap for reasons of space
conservation)
I have in the past had Baldur's Gate (+ Tales of the Sword Coast
expansion) on there, but had to remove it for the same reasons of space
conservation, merely much less recently than most of my games. I briefly
had both Ultima IX and Diablo II on, but had to remove both for reasons
of Not Working On My Five (Six yet?) Year Old Machine.
And add to this the roster of games I own and either had on at one time
but forgot or haven't yet had on:
Interplay's Ultimate RPG Archives (excl. those already listed)
Forgotten Realms Archives (excl. those already listed)
Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos
Lands of Lore 2: Guardian of Destiny
maybe more, I'd have to check upstares to be sure
-Lumina Dragon
Samurai
[munch]
>Hmm, my experience with Fallout was brief, but I thought it was crap.
I think you may be in a small minority here, with that view. Then
again, you appeared a little uncertain it was actually Fallout to which
you were referring, so I suppose it might be Bad Blood you found "crap".
;)
James Dowd
> Quoth "Zac Bond" <zw...@po.cwru.edu>:
> [munch]
> >Hmm, my experience with Fallout was brief, but I thought it was crap.
>
> I think you may be in a small minority here, with that view. Then
A small minority of at least two! I played Fallout for about 5 minutes
then wrote it off as crap. I don't remember why... however, hearing
more about it, now I'm looking to get me a copy and play through it. Go
figure.
J. P. Morris
>
>
> Helgraf Dragon wrote:
>>
>> Baldur's Gate / Tales of the Sword Coast
>
> Let's see. I have:
>
Can anyone trump this list? I've included game engines too,
which are in various levels of functionality. Obviously a lot of
these haven't been touched in a long time.
I have NOT included the 8-bit games played through emulators
because there are just too many of those. It took a long time
to rip all those off tape :)
By partition:
/mnt/c
Alleycat (and 8 other shit games)
Catacomb Abyss (first episode, can you still get the full version?)
Doom, 1+2 (Including Zero-G Doom, and many other 'not-doom-anymore' mods)
Eye of the Beholder II
Hexen
Jazz Jackrabbit shareware (Love that choir)
Jet Set Willy PC
Jugventure 0.3 (that's cheating.. I wrote that one)
Lemmings
Loom
Pagan
Simon the Sorcerer
SPISPOPD
Tom Braider
Ultima: Akalabeth, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,SI
Verge
Virtual Presence Engine (game engine demo)
Wolf3d
Worms
.. and hundreds of Spectrum games.
/mnt/d/
Many cool BBC games (Citadel, Imogen, Repton etc.)
DCworld
Duke3d
Elements
Legend of Kyrandia
Conway's game of Life
Magicboy demo (kills Windows dead ;-)
Monkey Island
Return to Zork shell (where's the damn CD?)
Starmines2
System Shock
Ultima 6 (including editor, many savegames and projects)
Underworld
Spear of Destiny
/mnt/e/
Fate of Atlantis
Javelin 2.32 (another of mine, but it's complete)
Verge (different version)
/mnt/f/
Dragon Engine (Alpha - I preferred those)
Dragon Engine (Release)
Happyland (some Allegro game with neat music)
Heretic
Hexen (Again?)
Alone In The Dark
Quake
Rocketz3D portal engine
Red Pixels
Simon the Sorcerer II
Broken Sword
Visions of Thraine alpha (with stolen U7 art)
Voyage of the Space Beagle DOOM
Xonnel engine
/mnt/g/
Alone in the Dark
CrystalSpace engine
Moraff's World
Moraff's Escapade (demo)
Rex3d (engine)
Strife (demo - can you get the full version these days?)
/mnt/win/
Deus Ex
Doomsday (3D-enhanced Hexen engine, but not bug-for-bug compatible. Nuts.)
Excelsior Phase 2 shareward (but it will go away soon!)
Pendumbra Demo (Which I am STILL trying to make work)
System Shock II
Ultima 9
/mnt/spare/
Javelin
Jugventure
Ultima 6 (again)
Ultima 1 Remake (win32)
And, scattered throughout the Linux continuum:
Cube Engine (3D shooter with on-the-fly level editing)
Ultima 1 Remake
Exult
Wolf3D engine (OpenGL)
Chromium BSU
Bunnies Demo (Now watch the fluffy bunnies explode violently, children!)
Rune
IRE 0.65, 0.70, 0.80, 0.81
..and probably lots of others that were installed with Mandrake
and haven't been hunted down yet.
--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- j...@it-he.org
Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
Developing a U6/U7 clone http://ire.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KA u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)
Wtcher
I'm Wtcher. A few of us here on the newsgroup are getting together to
play some games on-line. Would you care to join us? Off the top of my
head, there's me, Destrius, Ashikaga and possibly Rupert the Wanderer.
Ashikaga
> Hmmm. I've got the following games installed:
<snip>
> Gabriel Knight 3 - why does Gabriel turn into a jerk in this
> installment?
Yeah..., isn't that weird? He became a redneck of somesort, but once you
got used to it, it's okay. But certainly the previous installments are
better in term of characterization.
> --
> The Polychromic Dragon (Michael Cecil) of the -=={UDIC}==-
> http://home.attbi.com/~macecil/ mac...@attbi.com
> UDIC d++ e++ N++ T Om+ U12!3!4!5!6!A!WML!7'!S'!8!9! u+++ uC++ uF uG++
> nC++ nR---- nH++ nP++ uLB++ uA+ nI++ nPT nS+ nT+ wM- wC y+S a38
> Yet Another RGCUD Photo Gallery: http://home.attbi.com/~rgcud/
Ashikaga
Wtcher
ashi...@worldnet.att.net says...
> "Polychromic" wrote...
> > Hmmm. I've got the following games installed:
> <snip>
> > Gabriel Knight 3 - why does Gabriel turn into a jerk in this
> > installment?
>
> Yeah..., isn't that weird? He became a redneck of somesort, but once you
> got used to it, it's okay. But certainly the previous installments are
> better in term of characterization.
I never got used to the 3dness.
Wtcher
mac...@attbi.com says...
> On Sun, 3 Nov 2002 19:43:21 -0800, Wtcher <bou...@ultima-dragons.org>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <4Ykx9.24013$VJ5.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> >ashi...@worldnet.att.net says...
> >> "Polychromic" wrote...
> >> > Hmmm. I've got the following games installed:
> >> <snip>
> >> > Gabriel Knight 3 - why does Gabriel turn into a jerk in this
> >> > installment?
> >>
> >> Yeah..., isn't that weird? He became a redneck of somesort, but once you
> >> got used to it, it's okay. But certainly the previous installments are
> >> better in term of characterization.
> >
> >I never got used to the 3dness.
>
> hmmmm <spoiler>
Eeep! Put in more spoiler space... although it's still all my fault for
reading it. :(
I read things like how some people eat things.
Wtcher
mac...@attbi.com says...
> On Sun, 3 Nov 2002 21:11:33 -0800, Wtcher <bou...@ultima-dragons.org>
> wrote:
>
> >Eeep! Put in more spoiler space... although it's still all my fault for
> >reading it. :(
> >
> >I read things like how some people eat things.
>
>
> Sorry about the spoiler - I'll try to add more lines next time.
>
> So how far did you get in GK3? I found the interface a bit odd
> initially but it wasn't nearly as irritating as Gothic's, for
> instance.
I never left the first village. *g*
Zac Bond
"Samurai" <Sam...@his.reply-to.address> wrote in message
> I think you may be in a small minority here, with that view. Then
> again, you appeared a little uncertain it was actually Fallout to
which
> you were referring, so I suppose it might be Bad Blood you found
"crap".
> ;)
I checked online, and that was indeed the game. It did not sucessfully
draw me in during the first hour of gameplay or so, which is generally
my limit. I also seem to recall it being one of those goofy "zoom out
when you leave the town" games, but I might be wrong on that one; i
think you might have been able to move in a normal mode as well. Ah
well. Post-apocalyptic stuff never interests me. IMO, "swords and
sorcery" is the only worthwhile vehicle for an RPG :-D
-Ophidian
Ashikaga
<snip>
> Oh well. GK1 was fun and atmospheric. GK2 was even better. IMHO, it
> is the best graphical adventure game made so far. I had high hopes
> for the series but with the demise of Sierra Online I guess there
> won't be a 4th installment.
That's kind of sad, but Jane Jensen did get to ask hardcore fans why they
want the 4th GK to be made..., suggesting there might be still hope, I
hope....
I personally like GK1 the best, but it's the most Gothic of the three, but I
don't even like Gothic style. The storyline was superb, I thought.
Samurai
Fallout rather than Bad Blood, presumably. Out of curiosity, does
anyone still have the latter?
>It did not sucessfully draw me in during the first hour of gameplay
>or so, which is generally my limit. I also seem to recall it being
>one of those goofy "zoom out when you leave the town" games,
It is, but because it's a map rather than simply a larger scale window
on the game world, I didn't find the immersion interrupted to the same
extent as the earlier Ultimas.
>but I might be wrong on that one; i think you might have been able to
>move in a normal mode as well.
Not sure you can, in fact.
>Ah well. Post-apocalyptic stuff never interests me. IMO, "swords and
>sorcery" is the only worthwhile vehicle for an RPG :-D
*grin* Given that Wasteland and MarsSaga/Mines of Titan were two of the
best RPGs on the 8-bits, you might again be in a minority there. And
the P&P far-future game I played in for a couple of years also proves
you wrong. Traveller is a fascinating setting. :)
Lumina Dragon
Zac Bond wrote:
>
> Hmm, my experience with Fallout was brief, but I thought it was crap.
> Then again, I never liked sci-fi RPG's. I remember those goofy combined
> medieval/sci-fi RPG's my brother used to play for the Genesis...Phantasy
> Star was one of them, I think. The concept of one party member fighting
> with a sword and the other with a "Mega Blaster" made no sense. Then
> they just had to throw magic into it, to make life a little more
> incoherent. I groaned loudly when I saw a picture of the most recent
> incarnation of Blackthorn the Borg for Ultima Online.
OK, Blackthorn of Borg is a travesty, I'll admit, but HOW DARE YOU KNOCK
PHANTASY STAR!
Ahem.
It is NOT "medieval/sci-fi".
It is "futuristic fantasy".
Difference: medieval is a chronological denotement, so medieval sci-fi
would be advanced technology in the Middle Ages. Futuristic fantasy is a
fantasy theme in a futuristic world. This worked for FF8 as well.
And I don't see you complaining over the blasters and shuttles sitting
next to the swords and frigates in Ultima 1, DO I? Although U1 is more
of what I just defined your medieval/sci-fi term as.
Anyway. The Phantasy Star series is one of the coolest RPG series I have
ever had the pleasure to play.
> Assuming Fallout is the game I think it is, I do have a funny story to
> recount. Supposedly, my brother decided to play a game with a character
> whose luck attribute was extremely high. Within the first half hour of
> playing, he found a 'crashed ship' with the most powerful weapons in the
> game and a large quantity of whatever was used for money.
Cool. So if I ever get this game, I should do that? :P
-Lumina Dragon
Wtcher
It's absolutely random. You can find all sorts of things... strange bars,
crashed shuttlecraft, Death...
Zac Bond
"Lumina Dragon" <kewh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3DC723C8...@hotmail.com...
> OK, Blackthorn of Borg is a travesty, I'll admit, but HOW DARE YOU
KNOCK
> PHANTASY STAR!
Well, I'd probably knock it regardless because it is a console RPG :-D
I got awfully sick of fiting battle after battle, which is the standard
for consoles of the time I suppose. Then again, as I recall, everybody
in your party dies at the end of Phantasy Star II. I'm not sure though.
I remember you kill the big glowing ghost-looking bad guy, and I think
you might have to kill ANOTHER baddy after it, and then a door opens and
you enter a room with a vast quantity of red-shirted fellows. I was
about 10 at the time, I think, so my memory is probably off. But
regardless, it was a game that I enjoyed watching my brother play
sometimes, but I never liked to actually play it myself. I tended to
die rapidly, and
I think there was a Phantasy Star III, wasn't there, that was
multi-generational and had a transforming robot or something?
> And I don't see you complaining over the blasters and shuttles sitting
> next to the swords and frigates in Ultima 1, DO I? Although U1 is more
> of what I just defined your medieval/sci-fi term as.
I would never make the claim that Ultima 1 was better than any of the
other Ultimas, either (with the possible exception of Ultima II), lol.
I'd barely even refer to it as an RPG, about the only interactions you
have are buying and killing. And being seduced by that bar wench,
but...I think it may even be the fact that the weird combined
futuristic-but-we-still-have-wizards-and-swords games remind me of
Ultima I and II that turns me off.
-Ophidian
Samurai
[munch]
>Difference: medieval is a chronological denotement, so medieval sci-fi
>would be advanced technology in the Middle Ages. Futuristic fantasy is
>a fantasy theme in a futuristic world. This worked for FF8 as well.
And it rocked in He-Man. The Masters of the Universe cartoon was great,
therefore futuristic fantasy is also great. QED. ;)
>And I don't see you complaining over the blasters and shuttles sitting
>next to the swords and frigates in Ultima 1, DO I? Although U1 is more
>of what I just defined your medieval/sci-fi term as.
I'm still disappointed those are getting left out of the remake. Ah,
well.
>Anyway. The Phantasy Star series is one of the coolest RPG series I
>have ever had the pleasure to play.
Never tried it, but I've heard they're generally quite a lot of fun.
>> Within the first half hour of playing, he found a 'crashed ship'
>> with the most powerful weapons in the game and a large quantity
>> of whatever was used for money.
>
>Cool. So if I ever get this game, I should do that? :P
Extremely high luck is quite entertaining in Fallout, yes. Note,
/quite/ a high fortune rating is all but useless. You have to be
infected with the Red Dwarf Luck Virus, or nothing. ;)
Silvan
> I'm just wondering, now that there is no real hope of another Ultima,
> what games are people playing?
Exult... gTans... That's about it. U6 is on there, but I haven't worked
out how to get it completely functional yet.
> thing. I am glad that Blackisle and Bioware are both involved with
> great RPGs, but nothing is ever as good as "the good old days".
There hasn't been anything interesting in years, I'm afraid. :(
--
Michael McIntyre USDA zone 6b in SW VA, USA
Silvan Pagan [sil...@windows-sucks.com] Linux Druid
---------========[Does your ls -O?]=======---------
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/index.html
Nathaniel Thomas
> "Samurai" wrote in message
> news:3dc54a8c...@news.demon.co.uk...
>
>
>
> >I dunno -- Deus Ex is as good a game as the Underworlds, in a more
> >action-oriented way, and Fallout is as good as any Ultima. Nostalgia
>
> is
>
> >great, but shouldn't cloud one's judgement, I think. :)
>
>
> Hmm, my experience with Fallout was brief, but I thought it was crap.
> Then again, I never liked sci-fi RPG's. I remember those goofy combined
> medieval/sci-fi RPG's my brother used to play for the Genesis...Phantasy
> Star was one of them, I think. The concept of one party member fighting
> with a sword and the other with a "Mega Blaster" made no sense. Then
> they just had to throw magic into it, to make life a little more
> incoherent. I groaned loudly when I saw a picture of the most recent
> incarnation of Blackthorn the Borg for Ultima Online.
>
> Assuming Fallout is the game I think it is, I do have a funny story to
> recount. Supposedly, my brother decided to play a game with a character
> whose luck attribute was extremely high. Within the first half hour of
> playing, he found a 'crashed ship' with the most powerful weapons in the
> game and a large quantity of whatever was used for money.
While playing Fallout, I once ran into the Tardis from Doctor Who.
>
> -Ophidian
>
Nathaniel Thomas
Anubis the Ogre Dragon -==(UDIC)==-
Larryboy Dragon aka Tel Prydain
> I'm Wtcher. A few of us here on the newsgroup are getting together to
> play some games on-line. Would you care to join us? Off the top of my
> head, there's me, Destrius, Ashikaga and possibly Rupert the Wanderer.
That'd be great. I'm sooooooo sick of PW based games.
I'll be around, I'm Tel-Prydain on NWN
Lumina Dragon
James Dowd wrote:
>
> Ultima VII - in an attempt to show my roommate that old games can be
> good (the attempt seems to have failed - damn console fans! :) )
I like console games, yet I like PC games as well.
I like new games, yet I like old games as well.
FF1 to FF10, U1-U8 (can't run 9 yet), there are no limits on what I will
accept as a game. Not based on technology, platform, manufacturer,
publisher, or country of origin.
If a game doesn't sound like I'd like it's story, well, that might
disincline me to play something. But even in this arena, I am usually
quite lenient.
> Serpent Isle - Just beat it for the first time last night... er, this
> morning. HALLELUJAH!
You rule.
> Ultima 3, 5, 6 - Still haven't beaten them, perhaps soon?
Do so.
> Martian Dreams - After I found a copy of this "new" a few years ago, I
> resolved to play it... eventually
Me want.
> Ultima 9 - I might actually play it, now that I'm sorta "renting" a good
> video card... we shall see
Me want better computer.
> Baldur's Gate I/II and both expansions - Actually, they're uninstalled,
> but the saves are there... good games, but I've beaten them and
> therefore they shall be shunned :)
Almost beat BG1+TSC, but needed to free space and so it is uninstalled,
with only the save files backed up.
> Icewind Dale II - Someone has my CD's, but I have a level 16 party
> waiting to see if Heart of Fury mode is at all worth playing.
Don't have it.
> Forgotten Realms Silver Archive - Just in case I *ever* don't have a
> game to play, here's a dozen or so old school AD&D games I got for $5 :D
I got this before they added "Silver" to its name, and it was only a
dozen even (Blood and Magic (iirc) was included as a demo, not as a
thirteenth full game)
> Hmm... other than that I generally play Frequency (PS2), Animal Crossing
> (GC), I suppose I'll *eventually* finish Mario Sunshine (GC), and there
> are a number of other games I want, but can't afford/are not out yet
> (e.g., the Metroids, the Icewind Dale 1 collection, Planescape: Torment,
> the Fallout double case, the new SmackDown! game) and I have 11 PS1
> RPG's I've never beaten but will eventually... but I won't list them
> here, because this post is already way too long.
>
> Yeah, looks like I'm booked until I'm 34 or so. :D
Don't *even* get me started on my console collection. What I have behind
me could fill volumes.
What I have ahead of me? Well, here goes.
I want to finish FFX. Then I want to do a replay of Suikoden II before I
start Suikoden III, and somewhere along the line I have to fit Star
Ocean 2. I am nigh done with a replay of the GameBoy's FF Adventure
(first Seiken Densetsu game), and recently learned my brother had a copy
of FF Legend as well, so I have to play that one sometime. And because
it is the only RPG I have for the SNES that I have not finished, I have
to finish Secret of Evermore, eventually.
Then there are the games I plan on getting once I get an income. But
I'll refrain from listing those for now. Suffice to say they span the
PC, PS2, and GBA, with a couple PSX games for spice.
-Lumina Dragon
Lumina Dragon
Zac Bond wrote:
>
> "Lumina Dragon" <kewh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3DC723C8...@hotmail.com...
>
> > OK, Blackthorn of Borg is a travesty, I'll admit, but HOW DARE YOU
> KNOCK
> > PHANTASY STAR!
>
> Well, I'd probably knock it regardless because it is a console RPG :-D
> I got awfully sick of fiting battle after battle, which is the standard
> for consoles of the time I suppose. Then again, as I recall, everybody
> in your party dies at the end of Phantasy Star II. I'm not sure though.
> I remember you kill the big glowing ghost-looking bad guy, and I think
> you might have to kill ANOTHER baddy after it, and then a door opens and
> you enter a room with a vast quantity of red-shirted fellows. I was
> about 10 at the time, I think, so my memory is probably off. But
> regardless, it was a game that I enjoyed watching my brother play
> sometimes, but I never liked to actually play it myself. I tended to
> die rapidly, and
Lightweight. :P
Further, they never say the party dies at the end. They just leave you
hanging, not telling what happens between you and the people there.
> I think there was a Phantasy Star III, wasn't there, that was
> multi-generational and had a transforming robot or something?
Yes, but then, 3 was a bit of a digression from the main series, which
is resumed in 4, the closing chapter of the Phantasy Star saga (no I
have NO idea how the online ones fit in; PS4 closed the story quite
nicely, leaving no loose ends that I can think of).
> > And I don't see you complaining over the blasters and shuttles sitting
> > next to the swords and frigates in Ultima 1, DO I? Although U1 is more
> > of what I just defined your medieval/sci-fi term as.
>
> I would never make the claim that Ultima 1 was better than any of the
> other Ultimas, either (with the possible exception of Ultima II), lol.
> I'd barely even refer to it as an RPG, about the only interactions you
> have are buying and killing. And being seduced by that bar wench,
> but...I think it may even be the fact that the weird combined
> futuristic-but-we-still-have-wizards-and-swords games remind me of
> Ultima I and II that turns me off.
Video games aside, why can science not coexist with magic?
And don't try the "they just don't mix" cop-out. I want reasoning, if
you can come up with such.
-Lumina Dragon
Lumina Dragon
Polychromic wrote:
>
> On Sun, 3 Nov 2002 23:20:46 -0500, "Zac Bond" <zw...@po.cwru.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Lumina Dragon" <kewh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:3DC723C8...@hotmail.com...
> >
> >> OK, Blackthorn of Borg is a travesty, I'll admit, but HOW DARE YOU
> >KNOCK
> >> PHANTASY STAR!
> >
> >Well, I'd probably knock it regardless because it is a console RPG :-D
>
> And everyone knows the only good games named like that were the games
> of the Phantasie series! Hmmm. Time to whip out the, no, not that.
> Time to fire up the C= emulator. :)
Prejudicial console haters. :(
Said it before, and will likely say it again - play a game before you
judge it.
-Lumina Dragon
David DeMar
Ultima VII, Ultima VII: Serpent Isle, and Ultima IX
Baldur's Gate I and II
Icewind Dale II
Planescape Torment
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Civilization III (very addicting)
Commander Keen IV (yes, I am serious)
Wing Commander: Secret Ops
M*A*M*E* Arcade emulator v.61 with numerous games
NES, SNES, and Playstation emulators
What do you think?
David DeMar
"Lumina Dragon" <kewh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3DCD91CF...@hotmail.com...
James Dowd
> >
> > Ultima VII - in an attempt to show my roommate that old games can be
> > good (the attempt seems to have failed - damn console fans! :) )
>
> I like console games, yet I like PC games as well.
Yeah, me too... I don't know many people personally who do, though.
> I like new games, yet I like old games as well.
>
> FF1 to FF10, U1-U8 (can't run 9 yet), there are no limits on what I
will
> accept as a game. Not based on technology, platform, manufacturer,
> publisher, or country of origin.
>
> If a game doesn't sound like I'd like it's story, well, that might
> disincline me to play something. But even in this arena, I am usually
> quite lenient.
It's weird - I honestly can't understand why someone wouldn't play an
RPG based on bad (read: old) graphics. I mean, when I played Serpent
Isle my roommate said "You're going to play a game with graphics that
bad?" Not only is that a silly question, I think SI had pretty decent
graphics, especially with Exult doing its thing. Then again, I still
think FF6 has the best graphics in the series, except maybe 10. And
FF7's graphics were *always* total crap - no matter how you look at it,
people look like Popeye! Of course, this is all just my opinion...
I generally like any RPG unless it's just not interesting. The only
games I've really given up on were Legend of Legaia and Xenogears.
(Although I think I dislike Xenogears because it's one of those games
people tend to ramble on about while foaming at the mouth...)
<snip>
> > Ultima 3, 5, 6 - Still haven't beaten them, perhaps soon?
>
> Do so.
Well, I could never get into 3, and at the moment I'm just not really in
the mood to play any games at all. And especially not games where I
have to think, take notes, and deal with a clunky interface. The time
will come, though, I just need to have a cool down period or something.
<snip>
> > Ultima 9 - I might actually play it, now that I'm sorta "renting" a
good
> > video card... we shall see
>
> Me want better computer.
Bah, now that I've beaten it, I have to say... ugh. I mean, it was
enjoyable enough for me to finish, but not so much so that I did so
without a walkthrough. I just wanted to get it overwith. And the plot
felt like what a 3rd grader would think of as a "cool idea" after
playing through all the Ultimas. Stupid plot revelations and twists,
and a lot of reused stuff... I wasn't impressed. Then again, with
expectations as low as I had, I wasn't disappointed. :D
> > Baldur's Gate I/II and both expansions - Actually, they're
uninstalled,
> > but the saves are there... good games, but I've beaten them and
> > therefore they shall be shunned :)
>
> Almost beat BG1+TSC, but needed to free space and so it is
uninstalled,
> with only the save files backed up.
BG2 *rocked*, play it if you get the chance. The biggest difference
between 1 and 2 were that there weren't any useless wilderness areas in
BG2. The game is physically much smaller (and takes less CD's than the
original BG release :) ), I think, but still seems bigger. And I
actually got into the plot like I hadn't with a game since U7. I was
definitely happy.
> > Icewind Dale II - Someone has my CD's, but I have a level 16 party
> > waiting to see if Heart of Fury mode is at all worth playing.
>
> Don't have it.
If you like the BG engine and 3rd edition D&D rules, get it. You won't
be disappointed.
> > Forgotten Realms Silver Archive - Just in case I *ever* don't have a
> > game to play, here's a dozen or so old school AD&D games I got for
$5 :D
>
> I got this before they added "Silver" to its name, and it was only a
> dozen even (Blood and Magic (iirc) was included as a demo, not as a
> thirteenth full game)
Can't get into any of those games for the same reason I can't seem to
play U5. Plus, U5 has a higher priority. Still, I don't regret losing
the five bucks :).
> Don't *even* get me started on my console collection. What I have
behind
> me could fill volumes.
Not me. I've beaten every Final Fantasy ever released in the states
(and 3!), and most of the Ultimas, and about half a dozen other
modern-era RPG's, and that's it. I gotta diversify or something.
> What I have ahead of me? Well, here goes.
>
> I want to finish FFX. Then I want to do a replay of Suikoden II before
I
> start Suikoden III, and somewhere along the line I have to fit Star
> Ocean 2. I am nigh done with a replay of the GameBoy's FF Adventure
> (first Seiken Densetsu game), and recently learned my brother had a
copy
> of FF Legend as well, so I have to play that one sometime. And because
> it is the only RPG I have for the SNES that I have not finished, I
have
> to finish Secret of Evermore, eventually.
Ha! I laugh at your pathetic list! Well, not really... but oh well.
Do beat FFX, it's good, I don't know if replaying Suikoden II is worth
it or not [for the save, not the replay value :) ] (my roommate just
played III without a good save for II, and neither one of us has any
idea what, if any, difference that made), and the rest sounds good. You
can still get all the Gameboy "Final Fantasy" games (i.e. Seiken
Densetsu I and SaGa 1-3 :) ) at most stores, at least around here.
> Then there are the games I plan on getting once I get an income. But
> I'll refrain from listing those for now. Suffice to say they span the
> PC, PS2, and GBA, with a couple PSX games for spice.
Yeah... overall it sounds like you have a similar collection to mine,
except you've beaten most of it. Damn you! :)
--
James Dowd - Talraen Dragon
-=(UDIC)=- -=(*UnSPLUT!*)=-
jdo...@longisland.poly.edu - Talraen on AIM
http://longisland.poly.edu/~jdowd01/Aethrian
Claus Dragon
Tel Prydain) one of us...
games on my HD?
x-wing alliance
siege
aoe 2 (plus extensions)
ultima5
ultima6
ultima7 (exult)
some c64 stuff...
and zmud.
--
Claus Dragon
-Greybeard-
d++ e++ n+ t- U1!2!3!456!7!SUA u++ uc++ a23
http://www.surfnroll.de
"I'm a life long Anglophile. England is still
the only place I know where any young man
can grow up to be the Queen."
Hawkeye Pierce
BubbaDragon
> Video games aside, why can science not coexist with magic?
>
> And don't try the "they just don't mix" cop-out. I want reasoning, if
> you can come up with such.
>
concept in mind. Too bad that self same concept wasn't brought over into
games and or another author's series.
--
B2D & Amy Thest
Helgraf Dragon
The best explaination I've seen is that technology is a branch of magic
which requires you to disbelieve all other forms of magic as part of its
vital principals. All is to be explained by the sciences.
--
Helgraf Dragon, NSA Dragon, Echelon Liason, Fossil
Chronicler of the Circle of Dragons, King of Sloth
__ The Exodus of the *Other Side*; Psychological torch
/__\ d++ e++ N T-- Om+ U1!23!4!5!6!7'!S'!8!KA!L!
/|__|\ u+++ uC++ uF uG++ uLB+ uA++ nC+ nH+ nP+ nI+ nPT nS++
|----| nT+ y++ a27;a1728 Mao Count : 5, Plonk Count : 5
|_||_| When your home is a torus, expect curves.
Allan Olley
> Zac Bond wrote:
[snicker snack]
> > but...I think it may even be the fact that the weird combined
> > futuristic-but-we-still-have-wizards-and-swords games remind me of
> > Ultima I and II that turns me off.
> Video games aside, why can science not coexist with magic?
> And don't try the "they just don't mix" cop-out. I want reasoning, if
> you can come up with such.
I think Ophidian's problem is more that in a world with well made
gunpowder weapons the efficacy of swords and related paraphanalia
drops substantially. In some cases archaic equipment becomes
completely useless or detrimental. For example, heavy plate armour on
a battlefield where most weapons can penetrate plate like a rock
through a window. Although actually certain equipment could retain
utility despite the changes in technology even modern soldiers
occassionaly find it useful to have something handy for close combat.
In reality even most role-playing games that stay in a pre-modern
setting still have this sort of problem. Although the swords and
armour of various time periods and culture may look similiar to us, in
fact they all had particular strengths and weaknesses in their context
that dictated their use.
Now on whether magic and science can coexist, it depends on how you
define magic and science. Some people think of magic as inheirently
having no rules and completely upsetting any natural order that may
exist. If this is the case then science becomes useless since it can
only study the regularity and order in nature, if magic exists and
plays any considerable role in the workings of the world all bets are
off. The problem is that magic in most RPGs has heavy elements of
order and regularity which would make it amenable to a kind of
scientific study.
I guess another consideration of the problems of mixing magic and
science is that science displaces understandings which are a part of
magical traditions (real and imagined). For example it might not seem
to make sense to call air, fire, earth, and water elements (as happens
in magical worlds) in a world where it has been shown that all matter
is capable of assuming the various states (solid, liquid, and
gaseous), fire is just an expression of a certain chemical reaction
and there are in fact 92 distinct chemical elements which alone or
combined account for all natural material substances on Earth.
Although actually being wrong about the fundementals never stopped
science from working (as in the ether), so it should hardly stop magic
especially as magic tends to be more like a technology.
--
d e+ N- T- Om++ UK!1!2!3!4!56A78!9 u uC uF- uG+ uLB+ uA nC nR nH+ nP
nI+ nPT nS+
nT- y- a23
Captain in the Cinnaguard, Weirdo
Blue Bow [B><B]
Website: http://badger.ac.brocku.ca/~ao98ad/
-----------
Yours Truly Saint George's Dragon
Allan Olley -==UDIC==-
-----------
"And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, Behold, Essau my brother is a
hairy man, and I am a smooth man:" Genesis 27:11.
James Dowd
news:6ff38d33.02111...@posting.google.com...
> Lumina Dragon the Fighting Wet Swashbuckler of Honor wrote:
> > Zac Bond wrote:
> [snicker snack]
> > > but...I think it may even be the fact that the weird combined
> > > futuristic-but-we-still-have-wizards-and-swords games remind me of
> > > Ultima I and II that turns me off.
> > Video games aside, why can science not coexist with magic?
> > And don't try the "they just don't mix" cop-out. I want reasoning,
if
> > you can come up with such.
>
> I think Ophidian's problem is more that in a world with well made
> gunpowder weapons the efficacy of swords and related paraphanalia
> drops substantially. In some cases archaic equipment becomes
I always loved Final Fantasy VIII's explanation of why they had both
guns and swords... they claimed that swords were more "powerful" than
guns, but guns had the advantage of range. ... I think they were better
off just pretending nothing was going on. ;)
<snip>
> I guess another consideration of the problems of mixing magic and
> science is that science displaces understandings which are a part of
> magical traditions (real and imagined). For example it might not seem
> to make sense to call air, fire, earth, and water elements (as happens
> in magical worlds) in a world where it has been shown that all matter
> is capable of assuming the various states (solid, liquid, and
> gaseous), fire is just an expression of a certain chemical reaction
> and there are in fact 92 distinct chemical elements which alone or
> combined account for all natural material substances on Earth.
> Although actually being wrong about the fundementals never stopped
> science from working (as in the ether), so it should hardly stop magic
> especially as magic tends to be more like a technology.
I totally agree... I've been working on a magic system (and related
world) for a few years now, and the magic system is largely based on
this concept. "Elemental" magic really just affects matter in a number
of ways, but the people think of it in terms of the four "elements." It
still works despite this, and the elements become more magic
specializations than actual distinct schools or anything. Plus, my
magic system has a lot of rigid rules (which really make it no fun, but
that's fine by me ;) ) that make it almost scientific.
The question I would ask is, with a science-friendly magic system, what
impact would it have on the impact of science? For example, if you
could use magic to work with ores and metals, would that advance
metallurgy more quickly than real life? Could you find mass produced,
quality steel in a medieval setting with magic? (On a related note, I
don't like the idea of "enchanted" weapons in my world... magic is used
by people, it shouldn't exist on its own IMO - but how much better could
a master mage make a sword by using magic to restructure the metal,
etc.?)
At any rate, it's an interesting concept (IMO) that I don't really see
much of in video games or literature... but I'm pretty limited in those
areas anyway.
--
James Dowd - Talraen Dragon
-=(UDIC)=- -=(*UnSPLUT!*)=-
jdo...@longisland.poly.edu - Talraen (AIM)
http://longisland.poly.edu/~jdowd01/
Allan Olley
> "Allan Olley" <allan...@utoronto.ca> wrote in message
> > Although actually being wrong about the fundementals never stopped
> > science from working (as in the ether), so it should hardly stop magic
> > especially as magic tends to be more like a technology.
> I totally agree... I've been working on a magic system (and related
> world) for a few years now, and the magic system is largely based on
> this concept. "Elemental" magic really just affects matter in a number
> of ways, but the people think of it in terms of the four "elements." It
> still works despite this, and the elements become more magic
> specializations than actual distinct schools or anything. Plus, my
> magic system has a lot of rigid rules (which really make it no fun, but
> that's fine by me ;) ) that make it almost scientific.
>
> The question I would ask is, with a science-friendly magic system, what
> impact would it have on the impact of science? For example, if you
> could use magic to work with ores and metals, would that advance
> metallurgy more quickly than real life? Could you find mass produced,
> quality steel in a medieval setting with magic? (On a related note, I
> don't like the idea of "enchanted" weapons in my world... magic is used
> by people, it shouldn't exist on its own IMO - but how much better could
> a master mage make a sword by using magic to restructure the metal,
> etc.?)
Personally I like the idea of magic existing on its own as a sort of
source of general weirdness and thus being able to be placed into
objects.
However, I could see how it might be more a property and product more
of human beings. Certainly though even if magic is only felt as the
result of an immediate concious effort by men it might still have a
huge impact on what could be done technically. Even just the ability
say to manipulate molten liquids more easily (either by magic that
makes people resistant to heat or magic that moves objects at a
distance) would probably improve various kinds of manufacture
immensly, but this might stifle innovation on the more mundane side.
> At any rate, it's an interesting concept (IMO) that I don't really see
> much of in video games or literature... but I'm pretty limited in those
> areas anyway.
Well, there are definetly genres where magic and technology are mixed.
However, usually it ends up being more that you can use magic to
enchant more object, or certain practioners of magic include
technological like things in their paraphanalia. Rather than your idea
of improving engineering technology by the application of magic. Of
course it is hard to know how magic (or indeed new technology) would
actually end up being applied in the real world.
--
d e+ N- T- Om++ UK!1!2!3!4!56A78!9 u uC uF- uG+ uLB+ uA nC nR nH+ nP
nI+ nPT nS+
nT- y- a23
Captain in the Cinnaguard, Weirdo
Blue Bow [B><B]
Website: http://badger.ac.brocku.ca/~ao98ad/
-----------
Yours Truly Saint George's Dragon
Allan Olley -==UDIC==-
-----------
"Physics is not important, love is." Richard Feynman.
Lumina Dragon
Helgraf Dragon wrote:
>
> Lumina Dragon wrote:
>
> > Video games aside, why can science not coexist with magic?
> >
> > And don't try the "they just don't mix" cop-out. I want reasoning, if
> > you can come up with such.
>
> The best explaination I've seen is that technology is a branch of magic
> which requires you to disbelieve all other forms of magic as part of its
> vital principals. All is to be explained by the sciences.
That still sounds a lot like the "they just don't mix" deal. To use one
you have to disbelieve the other?
How advanced of technology does something have to be to require you to
disbeleive magic to use it? Computer age? Merely Steam age? Anything
mechanical at all? (This one would mean only stone age people, with
nothing more sophistocated than their wheels and fire, could use magic.)
You see why I don't buy into this explanation. Even if you can provide a
distinguishing cutoff line, how would you explain why the cutoff line is
THERE, specifically, etc.
As we all know, the FF series had a steadily progressing teghnology from
game to game (despite the fact that the games were unrelated).
FF1... closest thing we have to technology is the Airship, and airships
can be explained by magic easily.
FF4... Again with the airship, although the fact that this one has an
engineer indicates there's mechanics to it. Also, two towers in the game
had elevators from floor to floor. Oh, and the Dwarves had tanks.
FF5... Some ruins had obviously mechanical-looking areas in them.
(Old-civilization-with-technology is a not uncommon theme in RPGs.)
FF6... The place was well into the age of steam. The mining town alone
is proof enough of that. The mechanized castle that could submerge is
another bit of tech. And there's a train.
FF7... The first city of the game is a very industrial city. There are
TVs, a varied assortment of vehicles, weaponry, etc.
FF8... There's a city late in the game that is positively futuristic.
And that's jsut crowning off the fact that this world has even more
modern vehicles than 7, as well as not only TVs but computers as
well....
FF9... OK, a bit of a backslide here, but then, the game was aiming to
go to the roots of the series. We still have a fair bit of technology,
including one city which is at least as technological as FF6's world.
FF10.. Another Old-civilization-with-technology game, although some
remnants of the old technology are still around, and there are people
who try to find and restore it (itself a not uncommon game cliche).
And in each and every one of these, there was magic, swords, and all
sorts of fantastic elements.
And this is just the FF series. It would take me too long to list every
game I've ever played which mixed magic and tech.
-Lumina Dragon
Lumina Dragon
Claus Dragon wrote:
>
> Gabbagaaba we accept larrybo...@yahoo.com (Larryboy Dragon aka
> Tel Prydain) one of us...
>
> games on my HD?
>
> x-wing alliance
> siege
> aoe 2 (plus extensions)
Did you say extensions /plural/?
Only one I know of is The Conquerors.
Also, are you good at AoE2?
-Lumina Dragon
Corvid Dragon
his feet, or something...
[snip]
> FF1... closest thing we have to technology is the Airship, and airships
> can be explained by magic easily.
Don't forget the castle in the sky, and WarMech, and the robot who ended
up in the waterfall with the ribbon.
--
'til next sign,
Corvid Dragon
pedantry at its best
Helgraf Dragon
>
> Helgraf Dragon wrote:
>
>>Lumina Dragon wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Video games aside, why can science not coexist with magic?
>>>
>>>And don't try the "they just don't mix" cop-out. I want reasoning, if
>>>you can come up with such.
>>>
>>The best explaination I've seen is that technology is a branch of magic
>>which requires you to disbelieve all other forms of magic as part of its
>>vital principals. All is to be explained by the sciences.
>>
>
> That still sounds a lot like the "they just don't mix" deal. To use one
> you have to disbelieve the other?
>
> How advanced of technology does something have to be to require you to
> disbeleive magic to use it? Computer age? Merely Steam age? Anything
> mechanical at all? (This one would mean only stone age people, with
> nothing more sophistocated than their wheels and fire, could use magic.)
>
> You see why I don't buy into this explanation. Even if you can provide a
> distinguishing cutoff line, how would you explain why the cutoff line is
> THERE, specifically, etc.
>
> As we all know, the FF series had a steadily progressing teghnology from
> game to game (despite the fact that the games were unrelated).
>
> FF1... closest thing we have to technology is the Airship, and airships
> can be explained by magic easily.
You've forgotten the 32,000 HP Warmech?
--
James Dowd
"Helgraf Dragon" <hel...@ultima-dragons.org> wrote in message
news:3DD3AF3...@ultima-dragons.org...
> Lumina Dragon wrote:
> > FF1... closest thing we have to technology is the Airship, and
airships
> > can be explained by magic easily.
>
> You've forgotten the 32,000 HP Warmech?
That's 32,000 *XP*. Only 1,000 HP. I mean, come on, this is Final
Fantasy I we're talking about... the hit point scale is closer to 3rd
edition D&D than any other Final Fantasy. :) (FWIW, the remake on
Wonderswan that's coming to PSX and might actually come to the US along
with FF2 pumped up the HP of several bosses and such, including WarMech)
Lumina Dragon
James Dowd wrote:
>
> It's weird - I honestly can't understand why someone wouldn't play an
> RPG based on bad (read: old) graphics. I mean, when I played Serpent
> Isle my roommate said "You're going to play a game with graphics that
> bad?" Not only is that a silly question, I think SI had pretty decent
SI graphics? Bad? What was your roommate ON?
You should go "These aren't bad graphics." Then exit SI and load up U1.
Better yet, Akalabeth. "These are bad graphics."
He'd probably think U6 has bad graphics, too.
> graphics, especially with Exult doing its thing. Then again, I still
> think FF6 has the best graphics in the series, except maybe 10. And
> FF7's graphics were *always* total crap - no matter how you look at it,
> people look like Popeye! Of course, this is all just my opinion...
True enough, but the trick is to ignore any cosmetic flaws in a game in
favor of enjoying the game.
> I generally like any RPG unless it's just not interesting. The only
> games I've really given up on were Legend of Legaia and Xenogears.
> (Although I think I dislike Xenogears because it's one of those games
> people tend to ramble on about while foaming at the mouth...)
Well, I'm not a rabid, foaming, Xenogears fancreature, but I do think
it's a great game.
Although there is this boringly linear segment somewhere after the disc
change that detracts from voerall quality.
Other than that, I have no complaints.
And what do you have against Legaia? I liked that one, too. Rather
interesting, all-around.
> Well, I could never get into 3, and at the moment I'm just not really in
> the mood to play any games at all. And especially not games where I
> have to think, take notes, and deal with a clunky interface. The time
> will come, though, I just need to have a cool down period or something.
The trick with clunky interfaces is practice. After a while, I don't
even need to think when putting in the commands on the early Ultimas. (I
still need to look at my typing, but that's more a matter of I can't
instincually find keys without looking than anything else.)
> BG2 *rocked*, play it if you get the chance. The biggest difference
> between 1 and 2 were that there weren't any useless wilderness areas in
> BG2. The game is physically much smaller (and takes less CD's than the
> original BG release :) ), I think, but still seems bigger. And I
> actually got into the plot like I hadn't with a game since U7. I was
> definitely happy.
Need BG2, need better machine, and would like expansion thrown in for
spice.
Heck, I need a better machine just to play the DEMO I ahve of this
thing!
> If you like the BG engine and 3rd edition D&D rules, get it. You won't
> be disappointed.
Like the engine, love the FR world, as yet still do not have 3e core
books, so the jury can't even be said to be still out, it's not even
here yet.
> Can't get into any of those games for the same reason I can't seem to
> play U5. Plus, U5 has a higher priority. Still, I don't regret losing
> the five bucks :).
Dude! Get over the interface hangup. There is nothing wrong with
keyboard interface.
Then play Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds,.... I still need
to finish that, you know? But I probably lost my saves. I have to play
it over? Yeah, if I want to continue on to Secret of the Silver Blades
or Pools of Darkness.
Hillsfar is a quick, simple game, no real depth to it, but a worthwile
diversion.
I've also played the first EoB (on several platforms), and like it as
well. Haven't played the sequels.
Hmm.... I've toyed a bit with Dungeon Hack, but as yet have no aptitude
with it.
> Not me. I've beaten every Final Fantasy ever released in the states
> (and 3!), and most of the Ultimas, and about half a dozen other
> modern-era RPG's, and that's it. I gotta diversify or something.
If you'd like, I can list my entire reportoire.
> Ha! I laugh at your pathetic list! Well, not really... but oh well.
> Do beat FFX, it's good, I don't know if replaying Suikoden II is worth
> it or not [for the save, not the replay value :) ] (my roommate just
I hear the save carryover is worth it. And as for why I am replaying it
- a certain character's subplot. Let's leave it at that.
As I may not get all 108 Stars in this replay (though I am ambitious
enough to still try!), I am glad I have my 108* EndSave already
existing.
Hopefully on a current card, else I may need to bring it off my computer
(behold the wondrous DexDrive!).
> played III without a good save for II, and neither one of us has any
> idea what, if any, difference that made), and the rest sounds good. You
> can still get all the Gameboy "Final Fantasy" games (i.e. Seiken
> Densetsu I and SaGa 1-3 :) ) at most stores, at least around here.
The SD series I like muchly, but I've not yet ever played a SaGa game.
Speaking of SD, let's see if anyone agrees with this idea I had:
Given that Sega has had THQ put out the Phantasy Star Collection (PS1-3,
I hope 4 comes too... wait, I have them all already) for the GBA, Square
needs to do the same with the Seiken Densetsus.
They could rerelease FF Adventure, with an improved translation and
color graphics.
They could rerelease Secret of Mana as well.
And they could FINALLY bring over Seiken Densetsu III, which those evil
emulating people say is good, and since it's SNES-level of gaming, the
GBA would be a perfect home for it!
In favor of this theory are the following facts:
1) While the old Square USA never gave us a shot at the games that were
Japan-only, since EA took up Square's stateside services, we have
recieved remakes of ChronoTrigger, FF4 (the *real* version), FF6, and
the long-awaited release of FF5. We have also reccieved a near-perfect
percentage of Square's current games, rather than have so many be Japan
Only.
2) A great many SNES games have been sent GBA-ward (BoF, BoF2, SMB4 (as
SMA2), etc, can't be bothered to remember), so Secret of Mana has a fair
shot, and if Square and EA put their minds to it, SD3 as well.
3) Millions of rabid RG fans would kill for a stateside release of SD3.
If they make it, we will buy.
Conclusion: Square and Square EA would be stupid not to do this.
Now, someone know how I can get them to have this idea?
> Yeah... overall it sounds like you have a similar collection to mine,
> except you've beaten most of it. Damn you! :)
The secret is to beat one before starting anoter. Too many people start
oen, get a new one, drop the first to begin it, etc.
With me, I get a new one, I shelve it until I'm done with the one I'm
on. If I have more than one unplayed game, the one I choose is not
necessarily the one I got earlier, but the trick is to go one game at a
time.
I have occasionally been known to break this rule, but by and large it
serves me in good stead. Works well for my reading habit, too!
-Lumina Dragon
Lumina Dragon
Corvid Dragon wrote:
>
> Lumina Dragon was seen, causing a scene, clapping his hands and stomping
> his feet, or something...
> [snip]
> > FF1... closest thing we have to technology is the Airship, and airships
> > can be explained by magic easily.
> [snip]
>
> Don't forget the castle in the sky, and WarMech, and the robot who ended
> up in the waterfall with the ribbon.
WARMECH!
Can you believe I once fought that sucker... twice.... in one trip?
<story>
There we were. Kenn (Knight, named after my human name), Jeno (Master,
named after Jeno'Qilka, a.k.a. Android Dragon (Jeno'Qilka is Dragish for
"metal man" I believe), Ruby (Wh.Wizard, named after Rubyflame Dragon),
and Hai (Bl.Wizard, Hai-Etlik Dragon). On our way up the Sky Castle. I
was determined we would fiht WarMECH before facing Tiamat. SO I walked
up and down that narrow bridge until I met it.
On one such trip, near the starting end of the briodge, it attacked! My
people were of high enough level, and well enough equipped (well, Jeno
wasn't equipped at all, but equipment just slowed him down anyway) that
we took him out with relative (*key word) ease. Onward to Tiamat!
Except that WarMECH was not one of a kind, as I learned as I neared the
end of the bridge on my way to the crystal room. Oh well, I'm still
strong, I made sure to heal after the previous fight, down he went,
again relatively fast.
Then I got to Tiamat, took that sucker down, and chared the Wind
Crystal. Go me.
</story>
-Lumina Dragon
P.S. Relative ease meaning no one had to die or anything, and it took
rather few rounds, what with my overleveledness and my strength and
Jeno's multi-hits, and Hai's magic. This was a replay of the game, so I
knew what was up.
Lumina Dragon
Helgraf Dragon wrote:
>
> Lumina Dragon wrote:
>
> > FF1... closest thing we have to technology is the Airship, and airships
> > can be explained by magic easily.
>
> You've forgotten the 32,000 HP Warmech?
1kHP, as was pointed out already. Nothing had more than 2kHP (Chaos
itself) in FF1.
Yes, friends. Once, 2000 HP was enough for a final boss to kill you on.
Then again, there may be games with fewer. I'd have to check GameFAQs
for stats on baddies like Darkfalz or the Dragonlord (PS1, DW1
respectively).
And the last boss of Ys had only 255 HP, for that matter. Then again,
every boss in that game after about halfway in had that many HP, just
higher defensive and offensive stats, and were made harder to attack.
(Anyone remember the penultimate boss fight of the game? Them faces were
tough. Dekt was tougher.)
-Lumina Dragon
Lumina Dragon
James Dowd wrote:
>
> "Helgraf Dragon" <hel...@ultima-dragons.org> wrote in message
> news:3DD3AF3...@ultima-dragons.org...
> > Lumina Dragon wrote:
> > > FF1... closest thing we have to technology is the Airship, and
> airships
> > > can be explained by magic easily.
> >
> > You've forgotten the 32,000 HP Warmech?
>
> That's 32,000 *XP*. Only 1,000 HP. I mean, come on, this is Final
> Fantasy I we're talking about... the hit point scale is closer to 3rd
> edition D&D than any other Final Fantasy. :) (FWIW, the remake on
> Wonderswan that's coming to PSX and might actually come to the US along
> with FF2 pumped up the HP of several bosses and such, including WarMech)
Oh???
I hope they keep things balanced.
Well, not that some parts of the game were horribly balanced to begin
with, but we don't want the baddies to be even MORE impossible, you
know.
Also, I believe WarMECH is the first ever Optional Superboss, wouldn't
you agree?
-Lumina Dragon
Lumina Dragon
Allan Olley wrote:
>
> I think Ophidian's problem is more that in a world with well made
> gunpowder weapons the efficacy of swords and related paraphanalia
> drops substantially. In some cases archaic equipment becomes
> completely useless or detrimental. For example, heavy plate armour on
> a battlefield where most weapons can penetrate plate like a rock
> through a window. Although actually certain equipment could retain
> utility despite the changes in technology even modern soldiers
> occassionaly find it useful to have something handy for close combat.
Here, I am reminded of the use of smokepowder weapons in AD&D.
1) They were exceptionally rare, due to scarcity of smokepowder.
2) 10% backfire chance. 'Nuff said.
3) Enchanted armors could be ajudicated to protect against even
chemically-propelled weaponry.
Also, a couple books into a fantasy series I read, gunpowder is
invented. However, while it does gain common use in some circles, swords
are not likely to go out of style, for these are basically single-shot
things, and once fired, you will be very noticed and have no chance to
reload, so you switch to melee before they close in on you.
Sure, a small unit of gunners could severely damage an army with volley
fire, but that army (unless blind, deaf, and devoid of olfactory sense)
*will* know where they are being shot at from, and will charge en masse.
The sheer remaining numbers in the army are very likely to overwhelm the
gunners, especially if they are relying only on the guns. (This
particular scenario has never come up in the books because the
characters in the books are smart enough to see these same flaws.)
> In reality even most role-playing games that stay in a pre-modern
> setting still have this sort of problem. Although the swords and
> armour of various time periods and culture may look similiar to us, in
> fact they all had particular strengths and weaknesses in their context
> that dictated their use.
Yeah, well so what with armors not being able to stop bullets. Find me a
suit of plate that can stop a crossbow quarrel, or even a sharp enough
arrowhead fired from a strong enough bow. The fact that a steel ball is
a lot blunter than those indicates that full plate may very well stop a
bullet sooner than one of those. (Although I'm no expert; feel free to
correct as necessary.) Strengths and weaknesses are not all in the
defenses, but also the offenses.
> Now on whether magic and science can coexist, it depends on how you
> define magic and science. Some people think of magic as inheirently
> having no rules and completely upsetting any natural order that may
> exist. If this is the case then science becomes useless since it can
> only study the regularity and order in nature, if magic exists and
> plays any considerable role in the workings of the world all bets are
> off. The problem is that magic in most RPGs has heavy elements of
> order and regularity which would make it amenable to a kind of
> scientific study.
Personally, to me, it makes more sense if there is a method to magic
(not necessarily a rigid structure, but patterns that can be followed).
Like in the Ultimas. The Circles of magic, the Words of Power, the use
of reagents with specific purposes.
Personally, I like the idea that magic is an art that draws on magical
energies (Ether, the Weave, among myriad other names; for this argument,
I will call it ether). The ether is something that permeates the
physical ream without actually being of it. It is outside the realm of
science (the understanding of the physical world), and it is used for
magic. Thus science and magic can coexist - each has its own basis, not
interfering with the other.
What's REALLY fun is when they try do mix science and magic. Usually,
the results are disastrous. Occasionally, we get worlds in which they
can mesh, however. In a game called Legend of Legaia, magic is used as
the energies that power their technology.
I can't find the exact strip, but there's a strip in the Adventurers!
webcomic that gives a great example of when they do NOT mesh.
> I guess another consideration of the problems of mixing magic and
> science is that science displaces understandings which are a part of
> magical traditions (real and imagined). For example it might not seem
> to make sense to call air, fire, earth, and water elements (as happens
> in magical worlds) in a world where it has been shown that all matter
> is capable of assuming the various states (solid, liquid, and
> gaseous), fire is just an expression of a certain chemical reaction
> and there are in fact 92 distinct chemical elements which alone or
> combined account for all natural material substances on Earth.
> Although actually being wrong about the fundementals never stopped
> science from working (as in the ether), so it should hardly stop magic
> especially as magic tends to be more like a technology.
Ahh, the debate of elements vs. Elements. (The webcomic Adventurers!
pokes fun of this quite well, as it does so many RPG cliches. But I
shudder at having to even THINK about collecting that many Elemental
Relics.)
There are the classic four elements of nature, as you have pointed out.
Then there are the 92 natural (110+ total) elements on the Periodic
Table.
We are usuing different definitions of element here, so the two systems
need not conflict. (They will never meet at all, so any conflict is
merely a semantic argument of the term element.) One is used for magic,
the other for chemistry.
-Lumina Dragon
Lumina Dragon
James Dowd wrote:
>
> I always loved Final Fantasy VIII's explanation of why they had both
> guns and swords... they claimed that swords were more "powerful" than
> guns, but guns had the advantage of range. ... I think they were better
> off just pretending nothing was going on. ;)
Of course, the main hero had both at the same time, and pretended that
was normal.
> I totally agree... I've been working on a magic system (and related
> world) for a few years now, and the magic system is largely based on
> this concept. "Elemental" magic really just affects matter in a number
> of ways, but the people think of it in terms of the four "elements." It
Would you rather create a magic system based on the 92 elements?
> still works despite this, and the elements become more magic
> specializations than actual distinct schools or anything. Plus, my
> magic system has a lot of rigid rules (which really make it no fun, but
> that's fine by me ;) ) that make it almost scientific.
Magic with rules is fine, as long as the rules don't detract from the
"magic" of it.
> The question I would ask is, with a science-friendly magic system, what
> impact would it have on the impact of science? For example, if you
> could use magic to work with ores and metals, would that advance
> metallurgy more quickly than real life? Could you find mass produced,
> quality steel in a medieval setting with magic? (On a related note, I
> don't like the idea of "enchanted" weapons in my world... magic is used
> by people, it shouldn't exist on its own IMO - but how much better could
> a master mage make a sword by using magic to restructure the metal,
> etc.?)
Magic can aid science in many ways, and you've got just the tip of the
iceberg there. Sadly, I'm out of time online today, but I'll see if I
can give you a few good ideas tomorrow.
And regarding weapons -- it's not su much restructuring with magic as it
is simply adding magical qualities to the weapon. A sword enchanted to
strike faster, for example. Or one attuned to a certain person, and thus
given bonuses when wielded by that person.
> At any rate, it's an interesting concept (IMO) that I don't really see
> much of in video games or literature... but I'm pretty limited in those
> areas anyway.
Done right, it can work very nciely. Done wrong, it can be disastrous.
-Lumina Dragon
James Dowd
>
> SI graphics? Bad? What was your roommate ON?
>
> You should go "These aren't bad graphics." Then exit SI and load up
U1.
> Better yet, Akalabeth. "These are bad graphics."
>
> He'd probably think U6 has bad graphics, too.
Heh... actually, I used to think U6 had bad graphics. After playing it
a bit more, though, I realize that the graphics were pretty good, I just
can't handle the interface. U7 was my first PC game, so I think it's
kind of like the baseline of my opinions, and therefore everything
before it (especially RPG's where you needed to use something other than
the mouse for a significant number of commands).
<snip me complaining about FF7's graphics>
> True enough, but the trick is to ignore any cosmetic flaws in a game
in
> favor of enjoying the game.
Yeah, but the plot holes (more like plot chasms...) really turned me off
to FF7. It's actually down there among my least favorite Final
Fantasies, although I did like it the first time I played it. I
actually enjoy FF8 far more than 7 now that neither engine is novel (and
I know how to avoid making FF8 the most boring game in the world...
DON'T DRAW!). And it's not like FF8's plot is solid either... but a key
argument I have against FF7 is this: when Square announced that they
were thinking about making a direct sequel to FF7, a lot of people I
know said "How can they do that? All the humans died at the end of
FF7." As if it was fact. There is no hard evidence on this issue
either way, but everyone is absolutely sure of their own opinion, which
has actually made the game less enjoyable for me.
> Well, I'm not a rabid, foaming, Xenogears fancreature, but I do think
> it's a great game.
Well I *am* a rabid, foaming, anti-Xenogears zealot, so there! >:D
> Although there is this boringly linear segment somewhere after the
disc
> change that detracts from voerall quality.
>
> Other than that, I have no complaints.
Well, I've always heard that part of the second disc is just one
ridiculously long text segment (I assume this is the same thing you were
referring to), and that a lot of people thought they overdid it. I'm
only up to the part where you first meet Rico, which is (AFAIK) nowhere
near the second disc, and I am already really sick of the text. I mean,
I see a rat in a sewer and there are at least half a dozen pages of
text. Why?! Strange that tons and tons of text doesn't bother me in
Ultimas, though...
> And what do you have against Legaia? I liked that one, too. Rather
> interesting, all-around.
Well, I haven't got a clue what the hell I'm doing at the point I
stopped at (and I never did to begin with). Come to think of it, I
accidentally deleted that save anyway, so I suppose it's a moot point.
At any rate, the battles are long and generally boring, and the boss
battles are insanely difficult for no good reason. I remember one boss
(the Berserker?) where I couldn't win, so I peeked at the strategy
guide... they suggested being at *least* level 16. I believe I was
level 11, and leveling up in Legaia is painfully slow. Not to mention
that if Noa was a real person, I would slap her upside the head so
fast... god *damn* she's annoying. (Although I have to admit her being
annoying always seemed logical and in character given her background...
but that's no excuse! :) )
> The trick with clunky interfaces is practice. After a while, I don't
> even need to think when putting in the commands on the early Ultimas.
(I
> still need to look at my typing, but that's more a matter of I can't
> instincually find keys without looking than anything else.)
Well, I've been really proficient with the text interfaces before,
although I'm not at the moment. I'd actually rather play U5 than U6,
because U6 feels like it should use the mouse, but it's a pain in the
ass to actually do so. Of course, I haven't really played it enough to
say that with any certainty.
> Need BG2, need better machine, and would like expansion thrown in for
> spice.
>
> Heck, I need a better machine just to play the DEMO I ahve of this
> thing!
Heh. I really liked the expansion. Especially the imp... tee hee. But
anyway, get the expansion if only to bring a final end to the plot. :)
> Like the engine, love the FR world, as yet still do not have 3e core
> books, so the jury can't even be said to be still out, it's not even
> here yet.
Hmm... I guess if you don't know 3rd ed. IWD2 (that is what we were
talking about, right?) would feel like BG with a lot more character
customization. So get it anyway :).
> Dude! Get over the interface hangup. There is nothing wrong with
> keyboard interface.
I think I overcompensated for my interface hangups, since I've decided
to make an RPG in RPG Maker, which has a terrible interface (for text,
anyway)... I mean, I'm trying to make a plot-heavy game without a
keyboard. Just call me crazy. ;)
> Then play Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds,.... I still need
> to finish that, you know? But I probably lost my saves. I have to play
> it over? Yeah, if I want to continue on to Secret of the Silver Blades
> or Pools of Darkness.
>
> Hillsfar is a quick, simple game, no real depth to it, but a worthwile
> diversion.
>
> I've also played the first EoB (on several platforms), and like it as
> well. Haven't played the sequels.
>
> Hmm.... I've toyed a bit with Dungeon Hack, but as yet have no
aptitude
> with it.
Hmm... I'll definitely have to try them.
> > Not me. I've beaten every Final Fantasy ever released in the states
> > (and 3!), and most of the Ultimas, and about half a dozen other
> > modern-era RPG's, and that's it. I gotta diversify or something.
>
> If you'd like, I can list my entire reportoire.
If you want... you'll really just make me feel small and pathetic,
though. ;)
> I hear the save carryover is worth it. And as for why I am replaying
it
> - a certain character's subplot. Let's leave it at that.
>
> As I may not get all 108 Stars in this replay (though I am ambitious
> enough to still try!), I am glad I have my 108* EndSave already
> existing.
>
> Hopefully on a current card, else I may need to bring it off my
computer
> (behold the wondrous DexDrive!).
I love my DexDrive. But after just being in the room with my roommate
beating Suikoden III (twice, and the second time with all 108 stars) I
really want to play the series. That'll probably be my next project
when finish the RPG I'm working on. Hmm... not that anyone but us is
probably reading this, but does anyone out there happen to have RPG
Maker and a DexDrive?
> The SD series I like muchly, but I've not yet ever played a SaGa game.
>
> Speaking of SD, let's see if anyone agrees with this idea I had:
>
> Given that Sega has had THQ put out the Phantasy Star Collection
(PS1-3,
> I hope 4 comes too... wait, I have them all already) for the GBA,
Square
> needs to do the same with the Seiken Densetsus.
>
> They could rerelease FF Adventure, with an improved translation and
> color graphics.
> They could rerelease Secret of Mana as well.
> And they could FINALLY bring over Seiken Densetsu III, which those
evil
> emulating people say is good, and since it's SNES-level of gaming, the
> GBA would be a perfect home for it!
A few years ago I would have scoffed at the chances of that happening.
Now it almost seems like Square is afraid to try anything new with all
the remakes and now direct sequels of Final Fantasies. I say more power
to them! :) And now that they're back with Nintendo, the GBA truly is
the perfect place to port old games to.
> In favor of this theory are the following facts:
> 1) While the old Square USA never gave us a shot at the games that
were
> Japan-only, since EA took up Square's stateside services, we have
> recieved remakes of ChronoTrigger, FF4 (the *real* version), FF6, and
> the long-awaited release of FF5. We have also reccieved a near-perfect
> percentage of Square's current games, rather than have so many be
Japan
> Only.
And although Square was reportedly reluctant to release FF1+2 in the US,
now it's rumored that they will. Hmm...
> 2) A great many SNES games have been sent GBA-ward (BoF, BoF2, SMB4
(as
> SMA2), etc, can't be bothered to remember), so Secret of Mana has a
fair
> shot, and if Square and EA put their minds to it, SD3 as well.
> 3) Millions of rabid RG fans would kill for a stateside release of
SD3.
> If they make it, we will buy.
>
> Conclusion: Square and Square EA would be stupid not to do this.
>
> Now, someone know how I can get them to have this idea?
Just mail them. A lot of people apparently do, and it works (hence FF4
and CT for PSX in the US). Square doesn't believe that the rabid old
school fanbase is large enough to warrant the re-releases in the US, but
I say, how much could take a game you're releasing in Japan and just
translating it really cost? It's not like they have to offset the cost
of a game made from scratch. But maybe they have a point... a large
percentage of Final Fantasy fans started with FF7 and probably
*wouldn't* want a remake of FF1.
> The secret is to beat one before starting anoter. Too many people
start
> oen, get a new one, drop the first to begin it, etc.
Yeah, well, I learned that lesson *after* I spent all the earnings from
my first job buying a half-dozen RPG's a week.
> With me, I get a new one, I shelve it until I'm done with the one I'm
> on. If I have more than one unplayed game, the one I choose is not
> necessarily the one I got earlier, but the trick is to go one game at
a
> time.
>
> I have occasionally been known to break this rule, but by and large it
> serves me in good stead. Works well for my reading habit, too!
Yeah, that's what I try to do now, but the sheer volume of games I have
to play is intimidating.
--
James Dowd - Talraen Dragon
-=(UDIC)=- -=(*UnSPLUT!*)=-
jdo...@longisland.poly.edu - Talraen (AIM)
http://longisland.poly.edu/~jdowd01/
James Dowd
>
> James Dowd wrote:
> > That's 32,000 *XP*. Only 1,000 HP. I mean, come on, this is Final
> > Fantasy I we're talking about... the hit point scale is closer to
3rd
> > edition D&D than any other Final Fantasy. :) (FWIW, the remake on
> > Wonderswan that's coming to PSX and might actually come to the US
along
> > with FF2 pumped up the HP of several bosses and such, including
WarMech)
>
> Oh???
>
> I hope they keep things balanced.
>
> Well, not that some parts of the game were horribly balanced to begin
> with, but we don't want the baddies to be even MORE impossible, you
> know.
Well, the "remakes" are actually ports of the Wonderswan versions, I
hear. And the Wonderswan versions basically had better graphics and
sound, and then some conveniences and enhancements that you could turn
off. For example, you can make your characters auto-target a new
monster if the one they were aiming at that round dies. So perhaps you
can turn off the new HP totals? Besides, would giving the bosses more
HP be that bad? Hmm... come to think of it, this is FF1. So I guess
so. :) I just pray they don't make the marsh cave any harder...
> Also, I believe WarMECH is the first ever Optional Superboss, wouldn't
> you agree?
I believe so. It's too bad they didn't have the superbosses in *all*
the Final Fantasies. FF1 had Warmech, I didn't play FF2, FF3 had no one
that I know of (I'd count Ahriman if it wasn't a *required* boss...
which you can't save for at least an hour before fighting, no less). FF4
had Wyvern (or Dark Bahamut if you've played a more accurate
translation) who wasn't really *that* hard. FF5 had Shinryu and Omega,
which IMO were the first really ridiculous superbosses. FF6 didn't
really have anything to compare to them... DoomGaze? Nah. Maybe the
Dragons? I dunno. The Brachosaurs? FF7 had Ruby and Emerald WEAPON -
'nuff said. FF8 had Omega, FF9 had Ozma, and FFX has a whole coliseum
full of crazy bosses. And Tactics had the guy at the bottom of the deep
dungeon. Maybe they did have superbosses, kinda. Any thoughts?
James Dowd
>
<FF8 snippage>
> Of course, the main hero had both at the same time, and pretended that
> was normal.
Cool, perhaps, but I agree... not "normal" by any means.
<elemental magic snippage>
> Would you rather create a magic system based on the 92 elements?
Heh... I've considered it - for about three seconds before I smacked
some sense into myself. :)
<boring magic snippage>
> Magic with rules is fine, as long as the rules don't detract from the
> "magic" of it.
Yeah, I've always tried to walk that line. My magic system has a number
of different types that all have different uses, and most of the
standard spells from games are possible in one way or another. At the
same time, though, it seems like any one type of magic is too limited...
I tried to make a magic system where mages aren't just the de facto
badasses (like in high level D&D, for example), but they do add a new
aspect to society in general, and fighting in specific.
> > The question I would ask is, with a science-friendly magic system,
what
> > impact would it have on the impact of science? For example, if you
> > could use magic to work with ores and metals, would that advance
> > metallurgy more quickly than real life? Could you find mass
produced,
> > quality steel in a medieval setting with magic? (On a related note,
I
> > don't like the idea of "enchanted" weapons in my world... magic is
used
> > by people, it shouldn't exist on its own IMO - but how much better
could
> > a master mage make a sword by using magic to restructure the metal,
> > etc.?)
>
> Magic can aid science in many ways, and you've got just the tip of the
> iceberg there. Sadly, I'm out of time online today, but I'll see if I
> can give you a few good ideas tomorrow.
I look forward to that.
> And regarding weapons -- it's not su much restructuring with magic as
it
> is simply adding magical qualities to the weapon. A sword enchanted to
> strike faster, for example. Or one attuned to a certain person, and
thus
> given bonuses when wielded by that person.
That's the thing, though - magic in my world is entirely controlled by
people. Magic doesn't do anything on its own - you can't have
"enchanted" weapons like that, or independently-functioning golems, or
anything like that. The idea of enhancing metals for weapons is an
example of one way I tried to compensate for this.
The reason for this is twofold... originally it was to limit magic so it
wasn't too good. (The system was originally created as a reaction to the
way channeling works in the Wheel of Time, because it's far too powerful
for a pen & paper RPG), but now I have a whole sort of world mythology
(based, like much of my world, on weird dreams I've had :) ) that not
only justifies this, but allows enchanted weapons and stuff... just not
in this plane of existence.
> Done right, it can work very nciely. Done wrong, it can be disastrous.
Hmm... note to self: be careful. :)
Helgraf Dragon
> "Helgraf Dragon" <hel...@ultima-dragons.org> wrote in message
> news:3DD3AF3...@ultima-dragons.org...
>
>>Lumina Dragon wrote:
>>
>>>FF1... closest thing we have to technology is the Airship, and
>>>
> airships
>
>>>can be explained by magic easily.
>>>
>>You've forgotten the 32,000 HP Warmech?
>>
>
> That's 32,000 *XP*. Only 1,000 HP. I mean, come on, this is Final
> Fantasy I we're talking about... the hit point scale is closer to 3rd
> edition D&D than any other Final Fantasy. :) (FWIW, the remake on
> Wonderswan that's coming to PSX and might actually come to the US along
> with FF2 pumped up the HP of several bosses and such, including WarMech)
Oh yeah.. my bad. Even Chaos only had was it 2000 or 4000 HP....
Helgraf Dragon
> There are the classic four elements of nature, as you have pointed out.
>
> Then there are the 92 natural (110+ total) elements on the Periodic
> Table.
:grins: Nobody (playerwise) has found one, but I do have a Uranium
Elemental located in a specific location of my game world...
or maybe that was a Uranium Golem. Golems and Elements are so often
used for the same purposes...
Allan Olley
On the gun powder weapons issue, I was thinking more in terms of
modern firearms, which are capable of speeds far in excess of any
ancient missle weapon and I am pretty sure would pass through plate
with incredible ease and render swords anachronistic as weapons
(unless they can shoot lightening, or do some other really cool things
obviously;).
Even far more primitive gun powder weapons aided the Spanish, French
and English in there conquest of the Americas. And plate had already
ceased to be a practical armour form before guns were particularly
advanced. Now advantages to less armour such as mobility no doubt
played a role. My point was that a given military technology's
efficacy is often very context/technologically related and would work
against the kind of hodgepodge that RPGs often display (especially
guns and swordery types).
> Ahh, the debate of elements vs. Elements. (The webcomic Adventurers!
> pokes fun of this quite well, as it does so many RPG cliches. But I
> shudder at having to even THINK about collecting that many Elemental
> Relics.)
Is Adventurers! any good? Can you pass the URL?
> There are the classic four elements of nature, as you have pointed out.
>
> Then there are the 92 natural (110+ total) elements on the Periodic
> Table.
>
> We are usuing different definitions of element here, so the two systems
> need not conflict. (They will never meet at all, so any conflict is
> merely a semantic argument of the term element.) One is used for magic,
> the other for chemistry.
Actually, we are using the same definition of element in both cases to
some extent. Some of greeks (and others) had a theory that all matter
could be considered to be composed of the four elements of earth,
fire, water and air. So for example metals are a mixture of earth and
water, which is why they liquify at certain temperatures. The point is
that the elements themselves are in theory pure and not compounds of
any other material. Modern chemical elements meet the same
requirement, wherease most materials are made up of compounds of
various elements the elements themselves are pure. Of course by a
modern understanding even this conception of matter is false, because
we can recognize that matter is further decomposable into various
subatomic particles.
--
d e+ N- T- Om++ UK!1!2!3!4!56A78!9 u uC uF- uG+ uLB+ uA nC nR nH+ nP
nI+ nPT nS+
nT- y- a23
Captain in the Cinnaguard, Weirdo
Blue Bow [B><B]
Website: http://badger.ac.brocku.ca/~ao98ad/
-----------
Yours Truly Saint George's Dragon
Allan Olley -==UDIC==-
-----------
"Einstein, stop telling God what to do." Neils Bohr.
Samurai
[munch]
>The question I would ask is, with a science-friendly magic system, what
>impact would it have on the impact of science? For example, if you
>could use magic to work with ores and metals, would that advance
>metallurgy more quickly than real life? Could you find mass produced,
>quality steel in a medieval setting with magic?
It really depends on two factors: the availability of magic in the
game-world, and its ease of use. Here are three possible scenarios:
If everyone and his uncle is a magic-user and it's fairly easy to
produce major magical effects (Weiss and Hickman's Darksword trilogy and
the related RPG are the obvious example), it will simply be easier to
use magic for any given task than work out a technological answer.
Magic ends up doing everything -- djinn-powered steam engines, Discworld
Disorganiser PDAs et al. -- and science never really advances in
anything other than theoretical terms.
If magic is comparatively rare, or difficult to use (Mercedes Lackey's
gryphon books are an example of this, I think), there might well be
parallel development of science and magic.
One might find some magic used in construction and craftsmanship,
particularly the larger projects, but those without access to magic
would have to resort to technology. This is actually the sort of
universe I find most intriguing -- the one we see in Final Fantasy or
Masters of the Universe. It's also the most difficult to GM. <:)
And of course, if magic is difficult /enough/ to use, you might see no
really powerful magical creations -- like GURPS, things would have the
same basic effect whether they were of magical or technological origin.
Finally, if magic is rare /and/ difficult to use, you'd basically get a
world not dissimilar from our own.
>(On a related note, I don't like the idea of "enchanted" weapons in my
>world... magic is used by people, it shouldn't exist on its own IMO -
That's the 'magic is internal to the user rather than an external force'
idea -- the Belgariad exemplifies it. The only magical object we see,
IIRC, is the Orb of Aldur, which was created by a god. Those without
the powers of a deity have access only to psionics, which doesn't lend
itself to imbuing other items with mystical powers.
>but how much better could a master mage make a sword by using magic to
>restructure the metal, etc.?)
Depends if it's worth his or her while, really. :)
>At any rate, it's an interesting concept (IMO) that I don't really see
>much of in video games or literature... but I'm pretty limited in those
>areas anyway.
It's not hugely common, but there are instances of it.
--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon -==UDIC Sig Code==-
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'! L8u uC++
\ `^--^ \\\\\///// uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
\ \ \ (2 Attentive Points) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a26
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
Samurai
[munch]
>or maybe that was a Uranium Golem. Golems and Elements are so often
>used for the same purposes...
Now /that's/ evil. We like. >:) And if the players claim Uranium
doesn't exist in the game world, you can always point out it was forged
from a meteorite... ;)
Helgraf Dragon
> Quoth Helgraf Dragon <hel...@ultima-dragons.org>:
> [munch]
>
>>or maybe that was a Uranium Golem. Golems and Elements are so often
>>used for the same purposes...
>>
>
> Now /that's/ evil. We like. >:) And if the players claim Uranium
> doesn't exist in the game world, you can always point out it was forged
> from a meteorite... ;)
:grins: If players claim it doesn't exist, I raise an eyebrow and ask
them just whose world they're playing in. Since the answer is
near-invariably that it's my world, well that pretty much means anything
I want to exist in it, exists in it.
J. P. Morris
> Quoth "James Dowd" <jdo...@longisland.poly.edu>:
> [munch]
>>The question I would ask is, with a science-friendly magic system, what
>>impact would it have on the impact of science? For example, if you
>>could use magic to work with ores and metals, would that advance
>>metallurgy more quickly than real life? Could you find mass produced,
>>quality steel in a medieval setting with magic?
I suggest you read two Larry Niven shorts; 'Not Long Before The End'
(in 'All the Myriad Ways') but most definitely
'What good is a glass dagger?' (Flight of the Horse).
These two deal with the idea that magic is a non-renewable resource.
"I worked the metal myself, with ordinary blacksmith's tools, so the
knife wouldn't come apart. The runes aren't magic. They only say:
'AND THIS, TOO, SHALL PASS AWAY'"
> It really depends on two factors: the availability of magic in the
> game-world, and its ease of use. Here are three possible scenarios:
>
> If everyone and his uncle is a magic-user and it's fairly easy to
> produce major magical effects (Weiss and Hickman's Darksword trilogy and
> the related RPG are the obvious example), it will simply be easier to
> use magic for any given task than work out a technological answer.
> Magic ends up doing everything -- djinn-powered steam engines, Discworld
> Disorganiser PDAs et al. -- and science never really advances in
> anything other than theoretical terms.
In the world I'm designing, magic can, to a degree, be worked by anyone
who knows how (but the Church hates it).
Anyone can _cast_ spells, but it takes transhuman ability to _design_
them. That seems to me a reasonable compromise..
--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- j...@it-he.org
Fun things to do with the Ultima games http://www.it-he.org
Developing a U6/U7 clone http://ire.it-he.org
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KA u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)
Silvan
Hey, Selece, I thought you abandoned the world a long time ago!
Um. This is a cleverly disguised test post. My uni of Berlin news feed is
only giving me a trickle of articles. My ISP's crappy news server has
stopped working entirely. So I found a list of free news servers, and I'm
using one that says it's for reading only, but it had a ton of articles, as
opposed to most of them, which only carried a small number.
I want to see if leafnode is smart enough to use a server that _can_ post to
post this article.
We shall soon see.
--
Michael McIntyre USDA zone 6b in SW VA, USA
Silvan Pagan [sil...@windows-sucks.com] Linux Druid
---------[ registered Linux user #243621 ]---------
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/index.html
James Dowd
news:3dd65741...@news.demon.co.uk...
> Quoth "James Dowd" <jdo...@longisland.poly.edu>:
> [munch]
> >The question I would ask is, with a science-friendly magic system,
what
> >impact would it have on the impact of science? For example, if you
> >could use magic to work with ores and metals, would that advance
> >metallurgy more quickly than real life? Could you find mass
produced,
> >quality steel in a medieval setting with magic?
>
> It really depends on two factors: the availability of magic in the
> game-world, and its ease of use. Here are three possible scenarios:
Hmm... I can't decide whether to respond in a general discussion of
magic or in terms of my world. What the hell, I'm trying to develop my
world, I'll just be selfish and go with that. ;)
> If everyone and his uncle is a magic-user and it's fairly easy to
> produce major magical effects (Weiss and Hickman's Darksword trilogy
and
> the related RPG are the obvious example), it will simply be easier to
> use magic for any given task than work out a technological answer.
> Magic ends up doing everything -- djinn-powered steam engines,
Discworld
> Disorganiser PDAs et al. -- and science never really advances in
> anything other than theoretical terms.
I'll get to how magic works in my theoretical world in a minute, first
I'd like to give my opinions of each scenario you gave, and more to the
point why my system is a reaction to them. :) Anyway, I've never liked
the all-encompassing magic that just replaces technology because it's so
easy, for two reasons. One, I'm just biased against the idea of
everyone being able to use magic, because I've always liked to play a
non-magic user in a magical world, and it sucks when that makes you
incredibly weak in comparison to everyone else. And two, if magic was
so easy, who's to say that they'd have the same technologies? I can
understand it in Discworld (since it's not the most serious world ever)
but why djinn-powered steam engines? Why not power an engine through
raw magical energy or something... technology like this always seems to
be real technology with a magical element added in, and not magical
technology.
> If magic is comparatively rare, or difficult to use (Mercedes Lackey's
> gryphon books are an example of this, I think), there might well be
> parallel development of science and magic.
This scenario is pretty much how my world is. Magic is actually
extremely common (in terms of the power of magic saturating the world,
and just not doing anything) and anyone can use it, but it's difficult
to use. You need schooling and such (very Harry Potter :) ), which is
generally very expensive. Basically, "mage" is just another possible
job for nobility. :) And generally the mages of the world do not like
the existence of freelance mages (they're unionized ;) ), though this
isn't true in all areas. In fact, in some parts of the world everyone
is taught some magic for day-to-day use.
> One might find some magic used in construction and craftsmanship,
> particularly the larger projects, but those without access to magic
> would have to resort to technology. This is actually the sort of
> universe I find most intriguing -- the one we see in Final Fantasy or
> Masters of the Universe. It's also the most difficult to GM. <:)
Keeping in mind how weak magic really is in my world, using magic for
really large projects isn't really too feasible. Well, actually, that's
not true - you could easily lift heavy rocks and things like that a few
at a time, so I suppose it helps with construction and such. But you
can't do anything that's impossible without magic easily. For example,
if mages can make steel, but normal people can't, there won't be any
large steel structures. Mages would have to be paid an insane amount of
money to waste their time on such menial tasks. :) Of course, big mage
guilds would probably live in advanced structures no one else can create
as both a sign of their power and because it's just cool. At any rate,
my world doesn't really fit into this category because there are no
technologies *based* on magic.
> And of course, if magic is difficult /enough/ to use, you might see no
> really powerful magical creations -- like GURPS, things would have the
> same basic effect whether they were of magical or technological
origin.
Again, why would technology based on magic be the same as normal
technology, unless magic is limited to the user (and you can't "enchant"
things and such).
> Finally, if magic is rare /and/ difficult to use, you'd basically get
a
> world not dissimilar from our own.
Heh. I suppose I should have read further, since this is pretty much
exactly what I'm looking for.
> >(On a related note, I don't like the idea of "enchanted" weapons in
my
> >world... magic is used by people, it shouldn't exist on its own IMO -
>
> That's the 'magic is internal to the user rather than an external
force'
> idea -- the Belgariad exemplifies it. The only magical object we see,
> IIRC, is the Orb of Aldur, which was created by a god. Those without
> the powers of a deity have access only to psionics, which doesn't lend
> itself to imbuing other items with mystical powers.
Ooh... note to self, read Belgariad.
> >but how much better could a master mage make a sword by using magic
to
> >restructure the metal, etc.?)
>
> Depends if it's worth his or her while, really. :)
That statement pretty much sums up the way the world actually works.
Some mages (those who are naturally gifted with metals and such,
presumably) might make some money "enchanting" weapons to be stronger or
better or what have you. Mages as I see them don't generally use
weapons (when you've got magic, why carry a sword?), so this would only
be really useful for the purposes of making money. Although, since one
of the most effective uses of magic in my world (where you cannot
directly affect living things, or at least not animals and humans) is to
destroy their weapons and/or armor with magic, enchanting a weapon so
that it is harder to deconstruct with magic would be quite useful.
> >At any rate, it's an interesting concept (IMO) that I don't really
see
> >much of in video games or literature... but I'm pretty limited in
those
> >areas anyway.
>
> It's not hugely common, but there are instances of it.
And there will be more if I have anything to say about it! :)
Claus Dragon
>
>
>Claus Dragon wrote:
>>
>> Gabbagaaba we accept larrybo...@yahoo.com (Larryboy Dragon aka
>> Tel Prydain) one of us...
>>
>> games on my HD?
>>
>> x-wing alliance
>> siege
>> aoe 2 (plus extensions)
>
>Did you say extensions /plural/?
there is a puny german one...a mission disk, so to speak, nothing
original.
>
>Only one I know of is The Conquerors.
yes, that one too.
>Also, are you good at AoE2?
deinstalled. and no, i am always too slow compared to other
humans...same with WCIII.
--
Claus Dragon
-Greybeard-
d++ e++ n+ t- U1!2!3!456!7!SUA u++ uc++ a23
http://www.surfnroll.de
"I'm a life long Anglophile. England is still
the only place I know where any young man
can grow up to be the Queen."
Hawkeye Pierce
Wtcher Dragon
In addition to Neverwinter Nights, I also have Furcadia and Daggerfall
installed now.
--
-==[UDIC]==-
http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=250697
Lumina Dragon
James Dowd wrote:
>
> Yeah, but the plot holes (more like plot chasms...) really turned me off
> to FF7. It's actually down there among my least favorite Final
> Fantasies, although I did like it the first time I played it. I
Well, you want to see a Square game with plot chasms large enough to
drive Silvan Pagan's truck through?
Chrono Cross. ESPECIALLY after disc change, when even my considerable
powers of belief-suspension are insufficient to the task.
It's a great game to play, if you simply pretend the plot makes a lot
more sense than it does.
> actually enjoy FF8 far more than 7 now that neither engine is novel (and
> I know how to avoid making FF8 the most boring game in the world...
> DON'T DRAW!). And it's not like FF8's plot is solid either... but a key
> argument I have against FF7 is this: when Square announced that they
> were thinking about making a direct sequel to FF7, a lot of people I
> know said "How can they do that? All the humans died at the end of
> FF7." As if it was fact. There is no hard evidence on this issue
> either way, but everyone is absolutely sure of their own opinion, which
> has actually made the game less enjoyable for me.
Guh. And what do they base it on?
FINAL FANTASY SEVEN SPOILER IS HERE!!!
FINAL FANTASY SEVEN SPOILER IS HERE!!!
FINAL FANTASY SEVEN SPOILER IS HERE!!!
This spoiler will be slightly vague-ified so that people page-downing
past it won't learn more than they ought.
Because when that disaster hits, it shows it hitting that one place. And
in the much later post-scene, they also focus on that same place. One
place being put out of commission hardly equates to the end of mankind.
FINAL FANTASY SEVEN SPOILER IS GONE!!!
FINAL FANTASY SEVEN SPOILER IS GONE!!!
FINAL FANTASY SEVEN SPOILER IS GONE!!!
Oh, and unlike the FFX-2 game, the FF7 sequel is still only an idea
bandied about by Square. It said in the same article I read about the
possibility that they would make no definite plans while they had so
many games in the works already (FFX-2, FFTA, FF:CC, FF11, FF12, that I
know of).
As rumors go, this one has snowballed faster than most.
> Well, I've always heard that part of the second disc is just one
> ridiculously long text segment (I assume this is the same thing you were
> referring to), and that a lot of people thought they overdid it. I'm
> only up to the part where you first meet Rico, which is (AFAIK) nowhere
> near the second disc, and I am already really sick of the text. I mean,
> I see a rat in a sewer and there are at least half a dozen pages of
> text. Why?! Strange that tons and tons of text doesn't bother me in
> Ultimas, though...
Heh. I don't mind the text. When the text bothers you, consider that it
could be worse. It could have a translation as bad as Zero Wing's to go
with. FF Tactics, a great game to play, had horrible translation.
> > And what do you have against Legaia? I liked that one, too. Rather
> > interesting, all-around.
>
> Well, I haven't got a clue what the hell I'm doing at the point I
> stopped at (and I never did to begin with). Come to think of it, I
> accidentally deleted that save anyway, so I suppose it's a moot point.
> At any rate, the battles are long and generally boring, and the boss
> battles are insanely difficult for no good reason. I remember one boss
> (the Berserker?) where I couldn't win, so I peeked at the strategy
> guide... they suggested being at *least* level 16. I believe I was
> level 11, and leveling up in Legaia is painfully slow. Not to mention
Boss battles are difficult for a very good reason.
They're boss battles.
While I generally stay out of the argument between old-school and
new-school gamers, there is one thing the former faction says that I do
find an endemic problem recently. The fact that many RPGamers weaned on
FF7 and its ilk are lightweights. RPGs used to be challenging, but
generally have been wimpified in recent years.
Bosses are supposed to be hard. Not unreasonably so, but hard enough to
challenge you. Enough to push the limits of your strength.
Granted, some games take the challenge factor too far, but Legaia is not
one of them. Berserker *is* a very hard fight for your expected level,
yes, but not *quite* unreasonably so.
If I thrust those people into games like FF1, Dragon Warrior 4, or
suchlike, they wouldn't last.
Some such games are returning this difficulty, of course. The FF4
rerelease was the true version, not the SNES's easytype. Lunar 2
frustrates many of my aforementioned Lightweights, yet I found it to
have actually REDUCED it's difficulty from its own original release!
(Except for the last area and Final Boss, which decided to make up for
the wimpification of the entire rest of the game right there. THAT is an
unreasonably hard fight, in my eyes. I can beat it, and *I* don't mind
it, but it steps outside my idea of challenge level.)
> that if Noa was a real person, I would slap her upside the head so
> fast... god *damn* she's annoying. (Although I have to admit her being
> annoying always seemed logical and in character given her background...
> but that's no excuse! :) )
What? Does she act like she just crawled out of a cave?
> Well, I've been really proficient with the text interfaces before,
> although I'm not at the moment. I'd actually rather play U5 than U6,
> because U6 feels like it should use the mouse, but it's a pain in the
> ass to actually do so. Of course, I haven't really played it enough to
> say that with any certainty.
As I said above, for best results with Ultima 6, use both keyboard and
mouse. I move with the mouse, yet I take actions with the keyboard.
(Oddly, I reverse that for the Underworlds.)
> > Dude! Get over the interface hangup. There is nothing wrong with
> > keyboard interface.
>
> I think I overcompensated for my interface hangups, since I've decided
> to make an RPG in RPG Maker, which has a terrible interface (for text,
> anyway)... I mean, I'm trying to make a plot-heavy game without a
> keyboard. Just call me crazy. ;)
Oh, how that can be annoying. Yes, mass text entry via controller is an
exercise in patience and discipline.
Worse, I'm already taking up over half a memory card with just the first
segment of my game. (4 blocks System, 4 Scenario, AND one
mediorcely-drawn custom sprite makes 9 blocks of 15.) Am I
overambitious? I'd have to say yes.
> > Then play Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds,.... I still need
> > to finish that, you know? But I probably lost my saves. I have to play
> > it over? Yeah, if I want to continue on to Secret of the Silver Blades
> > or Pools of Darkness.
> >
> > Hillsfar is a quick, simple game, no real depth to it, but a worthwile
> > diversion.
> >
> > I've also played the first EoB (on several platforms), and like it as
> > well. Haven't played the sequels.
> >
> > Hmm.... I've toyed a bit with Dungeon Hack, but as yet have no
> aptitude
> > with it.
>
> Hmm... I'll definitely have to try them.
Then my highest recommendations go to the top paragraph's four games and
Eye of the Beholder 1.
I liked Hillsfar, but it is a short game with a straightforward plot, so
YMMV on that count. And Dungeon Hack is pretty much just a dungeon
crawl.
> > If you'd like, I can list my entire reportoire.
>
> If you want... you'll really just make me feel small and pathetic,
> though. ;)
Muah. Eh, hang around long enough and you'll see me post it sooner or
later. I've done it before, after all.
> > I hear the save carryover is worth it. And as for why I am replaying
> > it - a certain character's subplot. Let's leave it at that.
OK, Update: I asked one who played it if the save carryover was worth it
and he said not as much as from 1 to 2 was. I did not have him
elaborate, for I have yet to play the game.
> > As I may not get all 108 Stars in this replay (though I am ambitious
> > enough to still try!), I am glad I have my 108* EndSave already
> > existing.
> >
> > Hopefully on a current card, else I may need to bring it off my
> computer
> > (behold the wondrous DexDrive!).
>
> I love my DexDrive. But after just being in the room with my roommate
> beating Suikoden III (twice, and the second time with all 108 stars) I
> really want to play the series. That'll probably be my next project
Both Suikoden 1 and 2 are 2D Sprite games, and 1 is one of the earliest
of the PlayStation's video games, so it's a good thing you don't have a
graphics hangup. The game system is rather nifty, and in #2 it is the
same system but improved upon. (Some criticize the sameness as lack of
originality. I like the continuity. It's not like they're FF, with a new
system each incarnation.)
> when finish the RPG I'm working on. Hmm... not that anyone but us is
> probably reading this, but does anyone out there happen to have RPG
> Maker and a DexDrive?
Present!
> > The SD series I like muchly, but I've not yet ever played a SaGa game.
Update: I have now played (but not yet finished) FF Legend, which my
brother has for the GB.
> > They could rerelease FF Adventure, with an improved translation and
> > color graphics.
> > They could rerelease Secret of Mana as well.
> > And they could FINALLY bring over Seiken Densetsu III, which those
> evil
> > emulating people say is good, and since it's SNES-level of gaming, the
> > GBA would be a perfect home for it!
>
> A few years ago I would have scoffed at the chances of that happening.
> Now it almost seems like Square is afraid to try anything new with all
> the remakes and now direct sequels of Final Fantasies. I say more power
> to them! :) And now that they're back with Nintendo, the GBA truly is
> the perfect place to port old games to.
Too many companies have that trepidation, not just Square.
See, they have untried ideas, but their company bigwigs don't want to
risk that the games borne from these ideas won't sell. So don't blame
the people making the games, blame their execs.
> > In favor of this theory are the following facts:
> > 1) While the old Square USA never gave us a shot at the games that
> were
> > Japan-only, since EA took up Square's stateside services, we have
> > recieved remakes of ChronoTrigger, FF4 (the *real* version), FF6, and
> > the long-awaited release of FF5. We have also reccieved a near-perfect
> > percentage of Square's current games, rather than have so many be
> > Japan Only.
>
> And although Square was reportedly reluctant to release FF1+2 in the US,
> now it's rumored that they will. Hmm...
As I said, FF5 has also come over because of this. With their US branch
in new hands, we have seen a lot more out of Square.
> > Conclusion: Square and Square EA would be stupid not to do this.
> >
> > Now, someone know how I can get them to have this idea?
>
> Just mail them. A lot of people apparently do, and it works (hence FF4
> and CT for PSX in the US). Square doesn't believe that the rabid old
> school fanbase is large enough to warrant the re-releases in the US, but
> I say, how much could take a game you're releasing in Japan and just
> translating it really cost? It's not like they have to offset the cost
> of a game made from scratch. But maybe they have a point... a large
> percentage of Final Fantasy fans started with FF7 and probably
> *wouldn't* want a remake of FF1.
The cost would be greater than you think, although surely not as high as
making a game from scratch.
First, none of these games have been made for the GBA, so you'll have to
get programmers to make GBA versions. (Probably easier than this next
step, though.)
Second, FFA had a shoddy translation and SD3 has no official translation
at all, so localization teams will need to be hired to do the job.
I have no real idea what else would be needed, but those people will
need to be paid.
> Yeah, well, I learned that lesson *after* I spent all the earnings from
> my first job buying a half-dozen RPG's a week.
Heh.
> > With me, I get a new one, I shelve it until I'm done with the one I'm
> > on. If I have more than one unplayed game, the one I choose is not
> > necessarily the one I got earlier, but the trick is to go one game at
> > a time.
> >
> > I have occasionally been known to break this rule, but by and large it
> > serves me in good stead. Works well for my reading habit, too!
>
> Yeah, that's what I try to do now, but the sheer volume of games I have
> to play is intimidating.
And whose fault is that? :P
Don't worry, just keep at it.
-Lumina Dragon
Lumina Dragon
James Dowd wrote:
>
> "Lumina Dragon" <kewh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3DD44B67...@hotmail.com...
> >
> > Also, I believe WarMECH is the first ever Optional Superboss, wouldn't
> > you agree?
>
> I believe so. It's too bad they didn't have the superbosses in *all*
> the Final Fantasies. FF1 had Warmech, I didn't play FF2, FF3 had no one
> that I know of (I'd count Ahriman if it wasn't a *required* boss...
> which you can't save for at least an hour before fighting, no less). FF4
> had Wyvern (or Dark Bahamut if you've played a more accurate
> translation) who wasn't really *that* hard. FF5 had Shinryu and Omega,
> which IMO were the first really ridiculous superbosses. FF6 didn't
> really have anything to compare to them... DoomGaze? Nah. Maybe the
> Dragons? I dunno. The Brachosaurs? FF7 had Ruby and Emerald WEAPON -
> 'nuff said. FF8 had Omega, FF9 had Ozma, and FFX has a whole coliseum
> full of crazy bosses. And Tactics had the guy at the bottom of the deep
> dungeon. Maybe they did have superbosses, kinda. Any thoughts?
FF1: WarMECH
FF4: Well, I suppose you could count the bosses that guarded the good
weapons, but I'm not inclined to
FF5: Shinryu and Omega, as you said
FF6: Doom Gaze and the Dragons, yes, they were optional bosses and
*somewhat* Superbossish, but they are not that game's O.S.
FF6: Atma (2nd incarnation, the one in K's Tower).
FF7: Ruby and Emmy, also as you said, and there's Ultimate WEAPON to a
lesser extent... he's sort of like Doom Gaze, really.
FF8: Ultima Weapon, and especially Omega Weapon
FF9: Ozma
FFX: I won't bother the full listing. Nemesis is enough. Th'uban and
Ultima Buster come close.
FFT: That guy whose name I forget; never met him, although I have a save
in which I've been delving the Deep Dungeon off and on.
Of the above, I have killed all save for Shinryu in 5, Ozma in 9,
Nemesis in X, and the Deep Dungeon boss in T.
Optional Superbosses are not exclusive to the Final Fantasy series,
however.
Legend of Legaia has Lapis, for example. (Can't kill it; he's evil.)
Vagrant Story has Asura.
Star Ocean 2 and Valkyrie Profile have the official superbosses of
tri-Ace, Gabriel Celeste and Iseria Queen (Note: I have played VP but
not SO2, and have met the superbosses in neither.
Tales of *cough*Eternia*cough* Destiny II has a superboss in it's secret
dungeon.
Umm... umm... give me time and I can come up with others. But time I do
not have, not right now. Need to be offline soon.
-Lumina Dragon
Lumina Dragon
Samurai wrote:
>
> Quoth "James Dowd" <jdo...@longisland.poly.edu>:
> [munch]
> If everyone and his uncle is a magic-user and it's fairly easy to
> produce major magical effects (Weiss and Hickman's Darksword trilogy and
> the related RPG are the obvious example), it will simply be easier to
> use magic for any given task than work out a technological answer.
> Magic ends up doing everything -- djinn-powered steam engines, Discworld
> Disorganiser PDAs et al. -- and science never really advances in
> anything other than theoretical terms.
The Forgotten Realms world is also magic-rich. Maybe not to the above
extent, but with the likes of Elmisnter, Khelben, the Seven Sisters, the
Wizards of Thay, the Zhentarim, and clerics of half a hundred gods in
the human pantheon alone, magic is common. Not everyday, but common.
Despite this, there are some bits of technology cropping up in Faerun.
One of the gods, Gond, is patron of inventors and artificers (as well as
humans, he numbers lots of gnomish worshippers). Clockwork mechanisms
and smokepowder weaponry have been introduced into the world, all
without a trace of magic in them (although I suppose such thigns could
be enchanted). Imagine that. A smokepowder weapon enchanted to never
miss. To never blow up, despite the one in ten backfire rule.
These people are always trying to further science, and even outside the
sphere of Gond, there are a great many learned in things grounded in the
sciences.
> One might find some magic used in construction and craftsmanship,
> particularly the larger projects, but those without access to magic
> would have to resort to technology. This is actually the sort of
> universe I find most intriguing -- the one we see in Final Fantasy or
> Masters of the Universe. It's also the most difficult to GM. <:)
Hmm. Where do you see the difficulty? I could probably see my way to
running such a thing. Granted, all my DM capabilities are still
theoretical until I have ever GMed, but I don't see what could be
problematic with this.
> >(On a related note, I don't like the idea of "enchanted" weapons in my
> >world... magic is used by people, it shouldn't exist on its own IMO -
>
> That's the 'magic is internal to the user rather than an external force'
> idea -- the Belgariad exemplifies it. The only magical object we see,
> IIRC, is the Orb of Aldur, which was created by a god. Those without
> the powers of a deity have access only to psionics, which doesn't lend
> itself to imbuing other items with mystical powers.
Ah, but I like to see magic as being the internal channeling of an
external energy (ether, for example). Whereas psionics draw from within
(the mind), magic pulls energy from without.
-Lumina Dragon
James Dowd
>
> Well, you want to see a Square game with plot chasms large enough to
> drive Silvan Pagan's truck through?
>
> Chrono Cross. ESPECIALLY after disc change, when even my considerable
> powers of belief-suspension are insufficient to the task.
>
> It's a great game to play, if you simply pretend the plot makes a lot
> more sense than it does.
Well, to be honest I haven't played CC in a long long time. I pretty
much bought it the day it came out, beat it as fast as I possibly could,
and never really played it again. It had the strange property of being
fun while I played it, but retroactively not fun once I beat it for some
reason. At any rate, I seem to remember the plot being fairly nuts, but
I don't recall any plot holes I really had a problem with. (There
*were* a number of very forced tie-ins to CT I didn't like, though.)
So, just out of curiosity, what particular plot holes are you talking
about?
<snip FF7 ending argument discussion and spoilers>
Not much to add... I totally agree about FF7's ending, so no reason to
expose spoilers in a follow-up.
>
> Oh, and unlike the FFX-2 game, the FF7 sequel is still only an idea
> bandied about by Square. It said in the same article I read about the
> possibility that they would make no definite plans while they had so
> many games in the works already (FFX-2, FFTA, FF:CC, FF11, FF12, that
I
> know of).
>
> As rumors go, this one has snowballed faster than most.
True, but the fact that someone at Square has even admitted considering
a sequel to FF7 is enough to make me completely convinced I was right
about the ending all along. ;)
> Heh. I don't mind the text. When the text bothers you, consider that
it
> could be worse. It could have a translation as bad as Zero Wing's to
go
> with. FF Tactics, a great game to play, had horrible translation.
Fortunately, FF Tactics had such a unique engine (for a console game,
anyway) which blended the styles of turn-based D&D and traditional Final
Fantasy, so I was happy enough to ignore the translation. Although I
did notice that many proper names are different in the help screens than
in-game. (Like Orlan vs. Olan) What, did they have two different (but
both bad) translation teams do the game?
Anyway, Xenogears hardly had a stellar translation from what I saw of
it. Square's translations didn't start getting decent until around the
release of Vagrant Story, IMO.
> Boss battles are difficult for a very good reason.
>
> They're boss battles.
>
> While I generally stay out of the argument between old-school and
> new-school gamers, there is one thing the former faction says that I
do
> find an endemic problem recently. The fact that many RPGamers weaned
on
> FF7 and its ilk are lightweights. RPGs used to be challenging, but
> generally have been wimpified in recent years.
To be honest, I have a serious problem with RPG-ers that started with
FF7, for a number of reasons - but difficulty isn't one of them. (It's
mostly the fact that FF7 had a silly plot with a bad translation that
made no sense, combined with popeye graphics, and the main really cool
thing about the game [the materia system] is not even mentioned by a lot
of rabid FF7 zealots I've met.) But yeah, RPG's have been wimpified
recently... but is that so bad, really? I honestly don't have an
opinion either way.
> Bosses are supposed to be hard. Not unreasonably so, but hard enough
to
> challenge you. Enough to push the limits of your strength.
>
> Granted, some games take the challenge factor too far, but Legaia is
not
> one of them. Berserker *is* a very hard fight for your expected level,
> yes, but not *quite* unreasonably so.
>
> If I thrust those people into games like FF1, Dragon Warrior 4, or
> suchlike, they wouldn't last.
True, but there is a difference. With the Berserker, I figured that I
mathematically could not win at the level I reached him at, and I hadn't
run from a single battle, and had looked around and made sure to get
every Seru that was available up to that point. There was simply no
choice but to level for several hours and try again. Admittedly, when I
was at the "recommended" level, the battle was quite fun because I was
able to beat him, but only barely and with good strategy.
That's the thing... sure, FF1 is brutally hard, but I play through it
nowadays and it's much easier than it used to be, even back in the day
when I used the strategy guide like the manual. Why? Well, basically
(mainly due to experience playing D&D) I learned how to manage a limited
supply of spells. The Marsh Cave was hard not because you had to be
insanely high level to beat it (although it definitely helps :) ), but
because you had to know when to fight, when to run, and when to leave
the whole dungeon and start over, using the money and experience earned
to regroup. That sort of challenge not only feels less forced (to me),
but it's a *lot* more satisfying when you win.
> Some such games are returning this difficulty, of course. The FF4
> rerelease was the true version, not the SNES's easytype. Lunar 2
> frustrates many of my aforementioned Lightweights, yet I found it to
> have actually REDUCED it's difficulty from its own original release!
> (Except for the last area and Final Boss, which decided to make up for
> the wimpification of the entire rest of the game right there. THAT is
an
> unreasonably hard fight, in my eyes. I can beat it, and *I* don't mind
> it, but it steps outside my idea of challenge level.)
Sadly, I don't have Lunar 2, so I can't really say anything there. But
FF4 is definitely an improvement in terms of challenge over the SNES
version, at least IMO. Strategy really paid off (whereas it was
unnecessary in the SNES release), and in fact effective strategy (mostly
making good use of attack spell items, which weren't even in the
original US version) made the game easier than the original "easy" type
in a lot of ways. Although I strongly *strongly* warn anyone playing
NOT to put battles on active time. Bahamut hit me with Megaflare before
Edge even had time to select and throw a single shuriken because of
active time... not cool. I will say, though, you simply had to be very
high level to beat the last boss, which was unfortunate, but oh well.
> > that if Noa was a real person, I would slap her upside the head so
> > fast... god *damn* she's annoying. (Although I have to admit her
being
> > annoying always seemed logical and in character given her
background...
> > but that's no excuse! :) )
>
> What? Does she act like she just crawled out of a cave?
Basically, yeah. She doesn't seem to have the slightest idea of how the
world works, or tact, or how not to be obnoxiously annoying. :)
> As I said above, for best results with Ultima 6, use both keyboard and
> mouse. I move with the mouse, yet I take actions with the keyboard.
> (Oddly, I reverse that for the Underworlds.)
That's what I tried with U6, too - it seemed to be working out, but then
I started playing Suikoden. (As I believe I've mentioned elsewhere,
seeing my roommate play Suikoden III really wanted me to finally play
the series)
> Oh, how that can be annoying. Yes, mass text entry via controller is
an
> exercise in patience and discipline.
>
> Worse, I'm already taking up over half a memory card with just the
first
> segment of my game. (4 blocks System, 4 Scenario, AND one
> mediorcely-drawn custom sprite makes 9 blocks of 15.) Am I
> overambitious? I'd have to say yes.
Just out of curiosity, about how much do you get per block? I've
decided to lay out the whole game before making it (mainly because I
hate editing text and I'm not a particularly good writer, so writing off
the top of my head and going back later seemed like a bad idea), but I
was wondering how much space I'd need. Not that it really matters - I
have three PS1 memory cards and a PS2 memory card to back up more, so
assuming you can put different scenarios on different cards, I should be
fine regardless.
BTW, if you ever want someone to playtest your game, I'd be happy to,
and I have a DexDrive. Hint hint ;)
> OK, Update: I asked one who played it if the save carryover was worth
it
> and he said not as much as from 1 to 2 was. I did not have him
> elaborate, for I have yet to play the game.
OK, the only thing I *know* you carry over from 2 (and 1, if you carried
from 1 to 2) into 3 isn't of any real advantage in game (no McDohl in
the party or anything that I know of), but it's certainly cool. I was
also wondering... do you get anything in 2 if you carry over your 1 save
without it being complete?
> Both Suikoden 1 and 2 are 2D Sprite games, and 1 is one of the
earliest
> of the PlayStation's video games, so it's a good thing you don't have
a
> graphics hangup. The game system is rather nifty, and in #2 it is the
> same system but improved upon. (Some criticize the sameness as lack of
> originality. I like the continuity. It's not like they're FF, with a
new
> system each incarnation.)
I *love* the continuity of the series. I thought that it was kind of
silly at first, but then I found out how close each game is in terms of
time elapsed. I'll have to wait and see if they reuse characters too
much (since I'm only up to the first game :) ) but from what I can tell
it really feels like one world that they don't totally redefine each
game, and I really appreciate that.
It should be noted that I think that many 2D sprite games look a lot
better than 3D games up until the current generation. I mean, I
definitely like FF6's graphics over FF7's, but to a degree I like them
better than FF8 or FF9's, just because the texture mapping on the
Playstation always seemed a bit weird. But then FFX came out and blew
all sprites away.
> > when finish the RPG I'm working on. Hmm... not that anyone but us
is
> > probably reading this, but does anyone out there happen to have RPG
> > Maker and a DexDrive?
>
> Present!
Sweet! If I ever get going with the whole thing, I'll have to give you
a copy.
> > > The SD series I like muchly, but I've not yet ever played a SaGa
game.
>
> Update: I have now played (but not yet finished) FF Legend, which my
> brother has for the GB.
Nice! I always liked Legend 1 - it's incredibly simple, but it wasn't
just another Final Fantasy (mainly because it *isn't* a Final Fantasy,
but I didn't know that when I first played it years and years ago :) ).
And the plot could use some work, true, but I love the ending in a sick,
twisted kind of way.
> > A few years ago I would have scoffed at the chances of that
happening.
> > Now it almost seems like Square is afraid to try anything new with
all
> > the remakes and now direct sequels of Final Fantasies. I say more
power
> > to them! :) And now that they're back with Nintendo, the GBA truly
is
> > the perfect place to port old games to.
>
> Too many companies have that trepidation, not just Square.
>
> See, they have untried ideas, but their company bigwigs don't want to
> risk that the games borne from these ideas won't sell. So don't blame
> the people making the games, blame their execs.
I've always wondered... video games are still a relatively new industry,
and the basic way of doing things is make sequels to games that work.
Will this ever change? I mean, there are plenty of new series starting
even nowadays, but will people ever stop trying to make full series of
games? And should they? I dunno...
> > And although Square was reportedly reluctant to release FF1+2 in the
US,
> > now it's rumored that they will. Hmm...
>
> As I said, FF5 has also come over because of this. With their US
branch
> in new hands, we have seen a lot more out of Square.
And we love them for it. :)
> > > Conclusion: Square and Square EA would be stupid not to do this.
> > >
> > > Now, someone know how I can get them to have this idea?
> >
> > Just mail them. A lot of people apparently do, and it works (hence
FF4
> > and CT for PSX in the US). Square doesn't believe that the rabid
old
> > school fanbase is large enough to warrant the re-releases in the US,
but
> > I say, how much could take a game you're releasing in Japan and just
> > translating it really cost? It's not like they have to offset the
cost
> > of a game made from scratch. But maybe they have a point... a large
> > percentage of Final Fantasy fans started with FF7 and probably
> > *wouldn't* want a remake of FF1.
>
> The cost would be greater than you think, although surely not as high
as
> making a game from scratch.
>
> First, none of these games have been made for the GBA, so you'll have
to
> get programmers to make GBA versions. (Probably easier than this next
> step, though.)
Up until the making of FF1+2 for PSX, this was a good point. But now
they have every game we want in the US ported (or being ported, if
rumors of FF3 for GBA are true) to a console that exists here. So
bringing the games here wouldn't actually take any significant new
programming, just localization. Of course, I don't know how the
industry works, so I could be wrong about this, but it seems logical
enough.
> Second, FFA had a shoddy translation and SD3 has no official
translation
> at all, so localization teams will need to be hired to do the job.
>
> I have no real idea what else would be needed, but those people will
> need to be paid.
This is true. I've always wondered how much it costs to localize a
game.
> > Yeah, that's what I try to do now, but the sheer volume of games I
have
> > to play is intimidating.
>
> And whose fault is that? :P
>
> Don't worry, just keep at it.
I'm chugging along. I just got back to Suikoden after I got the new
Smackdown game for PS2 and unlocked everything I wanted, so we'll see
what happens.
James Dowd
<snip superboss discussion>
> Legend of Legaia has Lapis, for example. (Can't kill it; he's evil.)
> Vagrant Story has Asura.
> Star Ocean 2 and Valkyrie Profile have the official superbosses of
> tri-Ace, Gabriel Celeste and Iseria Queen (Note: I have played VP but
> not SO2, and have met the superbosses in neither.
> Tales of *cough*Eternia*cough* Destiny II has a superboss in it's
secret
> dungeon.
>
> Umm... umm... give me time and I can come up with others. But time I
do
> not have, not right now. Need to be offline soon.
>
> -Lumina Dragon
I agree with your superboss notes on the FF series, but I forgot about
Atma. I always forget that he's really hard until I fight him before
opening the other save point in Kefka's Tower and getting my butt
kicked. :)
At any rate, I have to say I really like the superbosses in Valkyrie
Profile. The whole bonus dungeon is a lot of fun, and one little thing
in particular makes it worth it to play it at all. If you ever play it
and beat it, make sure that after you go back to the beginning of the
dungeon and save, you leave the dungeon (don't just reset or reload the
game).
The bosses themselves are a bit silly, but its very satisfying to win a
long, hard battle. Especially in Valkyrie Profile, where every battle
feels like a fast paced Dragonball affair, what with all the yelling and
ridiculous attacks. :)
Lumina Dragon
Helgraf Dragon wrote:
>
> Lumina Dragon wrote:
>
> > There are the classic four elements of nature, as you have pointed out.
> >
> > Then there are the 92 natural (110+ total) elements on the Periodic
> > Table.
>
> :grins: Nobody (playerwise) has found one, but I do have a Uranium
> Elemental located in a specific location of my game world...
>
> or maybe that was a Uranium Golem. Golems and Elements are so often
> used for the same purposes...
If it's natural, it's an elemental, if it's created, golem.
I would hesitate to stand within ten miles of yout Uranium creature
however.
Now, if I had Armor of Anti-Radiation +5 and a Wand of Neutrons, I'm
sure I could get your mosnter to split.
<VBEG>
-Lumina Dragon
Lumina Dragon
Allan Olley wrote:
>
> Lumina Dragon the Fighting Wet Swashbuckler of Honor wrote:
> > Allan Olley wrote:
>
> On the gun powder weapons issue, I was thinking more in terms of
> modern firearms, which are capable of speeds far in excess of any
> ancient missle weapon and I am pretty sure would pass through plate
> with incredible ease and render swords anachronistic as weapons
> (unless they can shoot lightening, or do some other really cool things
> obviously;).
Which would make warriors obsolete, but wizards with wands would rise
quickly, especially if they know enough barrier spells. (Wall of Force
would stop a bullet, I figure. Wall of Stone as well. Of the other Walls
I know, Ice would stop a few bullets before shattering, and I would not
want to trust a wall of Fire between me and an incoming bullet.
Stoneskin enchantment would also work. Ironguard causes all metal to
pass through the wearer as if intangible, so a bullet would go straight
through..... if I had my PHB at hand, i'd see how many devensive
enchantments I think could stop it, and how many I doubt would stop it.)
> Even far more primitive gun powder weapons aided the Spanish, French
> and English in there conquest of the Americas. And plate had already
> ceased to be a practical armour form before guns were particularly
> advanced. Now advantages to less armour such as mobility no doubt
> played a role. My point was that a given military technology's
> efficacy is often very context/technologically related and would work
> against the kind of hodgepodge that RPGs often display (especially
> guns and swordery types).
Steel plate, certainly. What about Mithril plate? And plate forged of
Adamantite would stop more bullets than Kevlar ever could.
Hmmm.... Armor of Kevlar +3. I can see it now.
Then they invent the Bullet of Teflon +4.
> > Ahh, the debate of elements vs. Elements. (The webcomic Adventurers!
> > pokes fun of this quite well, as it does so many RPG cliches. But I
> > shudder at having to even THINK about collecting that many Elemental
> > Relics.)
>
> Is Adventurers! any good? Can you pass the URL?
The site has churned out intially 7 (but then only 5) per week, and has
been around long enough that they're closing in on comic 700.
Hmm. Unless I'm wrong, #700 will be Monday's strip. Sometiomes he does
special things for the *00s. Sometimes not, though.
Archive page is here:
http://www.adventurers-comic.com/archive.html
Link to their home should be on that, but beware; the archive page takes
eons to load. Well, for me. (NS 4.5 on 52k dialup)
Most of the time, they jsut do isolated strips that poke fun at one RPG
cliche or another. From time to time, they make plots for their intrepid
heroes and villains that can span several strips in succession. (There's
a link somewhere on the site to a synopsis of the overall course their
meandering plot has taken. The way that thing puts it, it almost makes
sense!)
> > There are the classic four elements of nature, as you have pointed out.
> >
> > Then there are the 92 natural (110+ total) elements on the Periodic
> > Table.
> >
> > We are using different definitions of element here, so the two systems
> > need not conflict. (They will never meet at all, so any conflict is
> > merely a semantic argument of the term element.) One is used for magic,
> > the other for chemistry.
>
> Actually, we are using the same definition of element in both cases to
> some extent. Some of greeks (and others) had a theory that all matter
> could be considered to be composed of the four elements of earth,
> fire, water and air. So for example metals are a mixture of earth and
> water, which is why they liquify at certain temperatures. The point is
> that the elements themselves are in theory pure and not compounds of
> any other material. Modern chemical elements meet the same
> requirement, wherease most materials are made up of compounds of
> various elements the elements themselves are pure. Of course by a
> modern understanding even this conception of matter is false, because
> we can recognize that matter is further decomposable into various
> subatomic particles.
Yes, but while the technical definition is the same, you can still find
ways to diffirentiate the natural elements from the chemical elements
for a game world. The letter of definition is the same, but (except,
apparently, to the Greeks), the spirit of the definition *can* be
different.
-Lumina Dragon
P.S. Ooh! Why Magic is Useful:
http://www.adventurers-comic.com/d/20021108.html
Lumina Dragon
James Dowd wrote:
>
> "Reply to Lumina's Posts" day continues... ;)
> "Lumina Dragon" <kewh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3DD45C7...@hotmail.com...
>
> <elemental magic snippage>
> > Would you rather create a magic system based on the 92 elements?
>
> Heh... I've considered it - for about three seconds before I smacked
> some sense into myself. :)
Heh.
> <boring magic snippage>
> > Magic with rules is fine, as long as the rules don't detract from the
> > "magic" of it.
>
> Yeah, I've always tried to walk that line. My magic system has a number
> of different types that all have different uses, and most of the
> standard spells from games are possible in one way or another. At the
> same time, though, it seems like any one type of magic is too limited...
> I tried to make a magic system where mages aren't just the de facto
> badasses (like in high level D&D, for example), but they do add a new
> aspect to society in general, and fighting in specific.
Try to make it useful outside of fighting as well - anyone can make
magic for combat, after all.
Noncombat applications of magic are the true test of its usefulness. As
you yourself said, you don't want mages to simply be the heavy
artillery.
> > Magic can aid science in many ways, and you've got just the tip of the
> > iceberg there. Sadly, I'm out of time online today, but I'll see if I
> > can give you a few good ideas tomorrow.
>
> I look forward to that.
Sadly, I am unable to think of any right now. I know there are ways in
which magic can be used to supplement technology, but none are coming
readily to my mind. It is easier by far to get magic to simulate
technology, for plenty of ideas in that vein are springing to mind, but
supplementing it takes some thought.
Wait, I do have one, can't take credit for it myself, though...
There's a book series I read, and in it, the heroes have invented guns
and gunpowder, and have been keeping its creation a secret (they're
engaged in a largely guerilla war with the bad guys, so they need the
advantage; they don't use their guns on anyone else).
Said villainous organization, however, came up with guns of their own.
But they could not duplicate gunpowder, so they had to make do.
Their bullets were propelled by a chemical that explodes when wet. They
contain it with water, although the substance is magically preserved to
not go volatile -- until its limits are exceeded. When they pull the
trigger, the water and the powder combine, overwhelming the spell, and
the force of the blast propels the bullet out the barrel.
Hopefully, I'm getting that right on all counts. It's something along
those lines, however. Magic supplementing technology.
Given enough leisure time, I very likely could come up with examples of
my own, or at least look around the web for some, but I am really not up
to the task at the moment.
> That's the thing, though - magic in my world is entirely controlled by
> people. Magic doesn't do anything on its own - you can't have
> "enchanted" weapons like that, or independently-functioning golems, or
> anything like that. The idea of enhancing metals for weapons is an
> example of one way I tried to compensate for this.
>
> The reason for this is twofold... originally it was to limit magic so it
> wasn't too good. (The system was originally created as a reaction to the
> way channeling works in the Wheel of Time, because it's far too powerful
> for a pen & paper RPG), but now I have a whole sort of world mythology
> (based, like much of my world, on weird dreams I've had :) ) that not
> only justifies this, but allows enchanted weapons and stuff... just not
> in this plane of existence.
I do not see the problem with imbuing objects with magical power.
Ultimately, that power must originate from a spellcaster, after all.
Of course, most such objects can then be USED by anyone.
> > Done right, it can work very nciely. Done wrong, it can be disastrous.
>
> Hmm... note to self: be careful. :)
I'd love to come up with examples of this - it's far easier than the
other scenario. But again I am out of time. I'm slowly trying to catch
up on the NG, but keep running out of time. *sigh*
-Lumina Dragon
James Dowd
>
> James Dowd wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, I've always tried to walk that line. My magic system has a
number
> > of different types that all have different uses, and most of the
> > standard spells from games are possible in one way or another. At
the
> > same time, though, it seems like any one type of magic is too
limited...
> > I tried to make a magic system where mages aren't just the de facto
> > badasses (like in high level D&D, for example), but they do add a
new
> > aspect to society in general, and fighting in specific.
>
> Try to make it useful outside of fighting as well - anyone can make
> magic for combat, after all.
>
> Noncombat applications of magic are the true test of its usefulness.
As
> you yourself said, you don't want mages to simply be the heavy
> artillery.
Actually, the system I came up with seems to be more useful outside of
combat than in it. Basically, there are a few problems with using magic
in combat at all - first of all, you need to draw the power you're about
to make into a spell before casting it, which takes time. More
importantly, standard elemental magic can't affect living things (well,
OK, technically it's dulled against plants, severely dulled against
animals, and effectively useless on humans), making it difficult to kill
someone with. (This limitation is due to the ease with which one could
kill with magic otherwise... just a small effect on the heart, say, will
kill anyone.)
Anyway, outside of combat, magic basically gives control over matter and
energy. Things take about as much power as they normally would, except
you can do things you normally can't. (I.e. creating matter from
nothing takes ridiculous amounts of power (E=mc^2 ;) ), converting
matter into something entirely different is very very difficult, and
taking what's there and just moving it around or whatever is pretty
easy.) I haven't really thought about the non-combat uses of magic too
much, though, since I'm currently trying to make a console RPG with my
magic system. :)
Hmm, very interesting. Still, it's not an entirely new concept or
anything.
> Given enough leisure time, I very likely could come up with examples
of
> my own, or at least look around the web for some, but I am really not
up
> to the task at the moment.
's OK, don't worry about it. If you're ever bored with a lot of free
time on your hands though, I'd definitely be interested in any examples
you could give me.
> I do not see the problem with imbuing objects with magical power.
> Ultimately, that power must originate from a spellcaster, after all.
>
> Of course, most such objects can then be USED by anyone.
Well, it depends on the nature of the item. Basically, in my world
there is a lot of inert background energy ("Ether") which mages can draw
into themselves to create magic. The way this works is that they
combine the ether with their own life energy, and the combination
("Mana") has the magical power of Ether, but can be controlled by a
human mind. Basically. I have a whole mythology-type-thing worked out
on how this works, but it's really not important - the point is that
only a human can direct magic.
The implication is that no item could ever have a renewable magical
effect, and because of the laws of conservation of energy and such they
couldn't have a constant, everlasting effect (like an enchanted sword or
what have you). I suppose an item *could* have a one-time effect
(programmed by the mage somehow), but I never even really considered
this until now. I have often thought about the possibility of imbuing
items with mana for one of two purposes, possibly both at once. The
effects this would have, in theory, are a.) to let mages tap into a
large source of mana without spending the time drawing it (Mana-imbued
staves would be very useful, for example), and b.) to make an item more
resistant to magic (since it's the life energy of plants, animals, and
humans that makes them resist magic, and Mana is partly life energy).
> > > Done right, it can work very nciely. Done wrong, it can be
disastrous.
> >
> > Hmm... note to self: be careful. :)
>
> I'd love to come up with examples of this - it's far easier than the
> other scenario. But again I am out of time. I'm slowly trying to catch
> up on the NG, but keep running out of time. *sigh*
I'm sorry to hear you keep running out of time. At any rate, even if
there's not another word said about this topic, you've given me a lot of
good ideas and things to think about, so don't worry about it. :)
Lumina Dragon
James Dowd wrote:
>
> "Lumina Dragon" <kewh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3DE03177...@hotmail.com...
> >
> > Well, you want to see a Square game with plot chasms large enough to
> > drive Silvan Pagan's truck through?
> >
> > Chrono Cross. ESPECIALLY after disc change, when even my considerable
> > powers of belief-suspension are insufficient to the task.
> >
> > It's a great game to play, if you simply pretend the plot makes a lot
> > more sense than it does.
>
> Well, to be honest I haven't played CC in a long long time. I pretty
> much bought it the day it came out, beat it as fast as I possibly could,
> and never really played it again. It had the strange property of being
> fun while I played it, but retroactively not fun once I beat it for some
> reason. At any rate, I seem to remember the plot being fairly nuts, but
> I don't recall any plot holes I really had a problem with. (There
> *were* a number of very forced tie-ins to CT I didn't like, though.)
> So, just out of curiosity, what particular plot holes are you talking
> about?
Best not to mention specifics where people who might not have played it
can hear, but pretty much any plot tie-ins to ChronoTrigger made far too
little sense, and further, any polot points revealed in the two major
locations of the second disc made even less sense.
Don't get me wrong; I liked the game, but it's far better to pretend
it's unrelated to CT than to try and make sense of the continuity.
> <snip FF7 ending argument discussion and spoilers>
>
> Not much to add... I totally agree about FF7's ending, so no reason to
> expose spoilers in a follow-up.
*nods*
> > As rumors go, this one has snowballed faster than most.
>
> True, but the fact that someone at Square has even admitted considering
> a sequel to FF7 is enough to make me completely convinced I was right
> about the ending all along. ;)
But no one cares to listen to us!
> > Heh. I don't mind the text. When the text bothers you, consider that
> it
> > could be worse. It could have a translation as bad as Zero Wing's to
> go
> > with. FF Tactics, a great game to play, had horrible translation.
>
> Fortunately, FF Tactics had such a unique engine (for a console game,
> anyway) which blended the styles of turn-based D&D and traditional Final
> Fantasy, so I was happy enough to ignore the translation. Although I
> did notice that many proper names are different in the help screens than
> in-game. (Like Orlan vs. Olan) What, did they have two different (but
> both bad) translation teams do the game?
They had a good feeling. This is the way!
> Anyway, Xenogears hardly had a stellar translation from what I saw of
> it. Square's translations didn't start getting decent until around the
> release of Vagrant Story, IMO.
I love this fact, because VS was done by the same people who did FFT.
The irony kills me every single time.
(Said people are Quest, also known for the Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre
games; they just had Square publish FFT and VS, so the Squaresoft label
got slapped on.)
> > Boss battles are difficult for a very good reason.
> >
> > They're boss battles.
> >
> > While I generally stay out of the argument between old-school and
> > new-school gamers, there is one thing the former faction says that I
> do
> > find an endemic problem recently. The fact that many RPGamers weaned
> on
> > FF7 and its ilk are lightweights. RPGs used to be challenging, but
> > generally have been wimpified in recent years.
>
> To be honest, I have a serious problem with RPG-ers that started with
> FF7, for a number of reasons - but difficulty isn't one of them. (It's
> mostly the fact that FF7 had a silly plot with a bad translation that
> made no sense, combined with popeye graphics, and the main really cool
> thing about the game [the materia system] is not even mentioned by a lot
> of rabid FF7 zealots I've met.) But yeah, RPG's have been wimpified
> recently... but is that so bad, really? I honestly don't have an
> opinion either way.
The materia system, which I quite liked, got a lot of heckling by
RPGamers. So did CC's Elements system, FF8's Junction system, and
probably others. Those, I didn't mind either. I don't see what
everyone's problem was there. Are they afraid to learn to use these
things and thus make the game go along more smoothly?
> > Bosses are supposed to be hard. Not unreasonably so, but hard enough
> to
> > challenge you. Enough to push the limits of your strength.
> >
> > Granted, some games take the challenge factor too far, but Legaia is
> not
> > one of them. Berserker *is* a very hard fight for your expected level,
> > yes, but not *quite* unreasonably so.
> >
> > If I thrust those people into games like FF1, Dragon Warrior 4, or
> > suchlike, they wouldn't last.
>
> True, but there is a difference. With the Berserker, I figured that I
> mathematically could not win at the level I reached him at, and I hadn't
> run from a single battle, and had looked around and made sure to get
> every Seru that was available up to that point. There was simply no
> choice but to level for several hours and try again. Admittedly, when I
> was at the "recommended" level, the battle was quite fun because I was
> able to beat him, but only barely and with good strategy.
Be lucky you're not trying to do what I'm trying to do on that game.
The leveling I need to do for this would kill most mortals.
> That's the thing... sure, FF1 is brutally hard, but I play through it
> nowadays and it's much easier than it used to be, even back in the day
> when I used the strategy guide like the manual. Why? Well, basically
> (mainly due to experience playing D&D) I learned how to manage a limited
> supply of spells. The Marsh Cave was hard not because you had to be
> insanely high level to beat it (although it definitely helps :) ), but
> because you had to know when to fight, when to run, and when to leave
> the whole dungeon and start over, using the money and experience earned
> to regroup. That sort of challenge not only feels less forced (to me),
> but it's a *lot* more satisfying when you win.
Heh. I myself replayed FF1 just this past summer. Did a great job on it.
> > Some such games are returning this difficulty, of course. The FF4
> > rerelease was the true version, not the SNES's easytype. Lunar 2
> > frustrates many of my aforementioned Lightweights, yet I found it to
> > have actually REDUCED it's difficulty from its own original release!
> > (Except for the last area and Final Boss, which decided to make up for
> > the wimpification of the entire rest of the game right there. THAT is
> an
> > unreasonably hard fight, in my eyes. I can beat it, and *I* don't mind
> > it, but it steps outside my idea of challenge level.)
>
> Sadly, I don't have Lunar 2, so I can't really say anything there. But
> FF4 is definitely an improvement in terms of challenge over the SNES
> version, at least IMO. Strategy really paid off (whereas it was
> unnecessary in the SNES release), and in fact effective strategy (mostly
> making good use of attack spell items, which weren't even in the
> original US version) made the game easier than the original "easy" type
> in a lot of ways. Although I strongly *strongly* warn anyone playing
> NOT to put battles on active time. Bahamut hit me with Megaflare before
> Edge even had time to select and throw a single shuriken because of
> active time... not cool. I will say, though, you simply had to be very
> high level to beat the last boss, which was unfortunate, but oh well.
You cannot beat Bahamut with the Wall spell alone. You need the reflect
items as well.
And that's not even on active time, that's on only semi-active or
whatever it was called.
Regarding Lunar 2... I like some of the changes over the SCD version,
but there's a lot I would have preferred kept as was.
Great game in either version, though.
> > What? Does she act like she just crawled out of a cave?
>
> Basically, yeah. She doesn't seem to have the slightest idea of how the
> world works, or tact, or how not to be obnoxiously annoying. :)
Heh. Don't worry, some games have characters who weren't so isolated yet
still manage to be that annoying!
> > Oh, how that can be annoying. Yes, mass text entry via controller is
> > an exercise in patience and discipline.
> >
> > Worse, I'm already taking up over half a memory card with just the
> > first segment of my game. (4 blocks System, 4 Scenario, AND one
> > mediorcely-drawn custom sprite makes 9 blocks of 15.) Am I
> > overambitious? I'd have to say yes.
>
> Just out of curiosity, about how much do you get per block? I've
> decided to lay out the whole game before making it (mainly because I
> hate editing text and I'm not a particularly good writer, so writing off
> the top of my head and going back later seemed like a bad idea), but I
> was wondering how much space I'd need. Not that it really matters - I
> have three PS1 memory cards and a PS2 memory card to back up more, so
> assuming you can put different scenarios on different cards, I should be
> fine regardless.
Heh. I have no idea what my mileage per block is so far. I only know it
will take more than one card to do it.
> BTW, if you ever want someone to playtest your game, I'd be happy to,
> and I have a DexDrive. Hint hint ;)
>
> > OK, Update: I asked one who played it if the save carryover was worth
> it
> > and he said not as much as from 1 to 2 was. I did not have him
> > elaborate, for I have yet to play the game.
>
> OK, the only thing I *know* you carry over from 2 (and 1, if you carried
> from 1 to 2) into 3 isn't of any real advantage in game (no McDohl in
> the party or anything that I know of), but it's certainly cool. I was
> also wondering... do you get anything in 2 if you carry over your 1 save
> without it being complete?
It depends on what you mean by "complete".
The game must be complete - Suikoden 2 will only import save data made
at the save point just before the final boss.
If you mean complete as in all 108 Stars, that is not necessary,
although the event it unlocks will differ depending on whether you have
or not.
> > Both Suikoden 1 and 2 are 2D Sprite games, and 1 is one of the
> > earliest of the PlayStation's video games, so it's a good thing you don't have
> > a graphics hangup. The game system is rather nifty, and in #2 it is the
> > same system but improved upon. (Some criticize the sameness as lack of
> > originality. I like the continuity. It's not like they're FF, with a
> > new system each incarnation.)
>
> I *love* the continuity of the series. I thought that it was kind of
> silly at first, but then I found out how close each game is in terms of
> time elapsed. I'll have to wait and see if they reuse characters too
> much (since I'm only up to the first game :) ) but from what I can tell
> it really feels like one world that they don't totally redefine each
> game, and I really appreciate that.
Having played both 1 and 2, I can say that there is a fair bit of
character overlap, but not to the point of "too much". None of the
overlap brings characters out of... out of their element, I should say.
> It should be noted that I think that many 2D sprite games look a lot
> better than 3D games up until the current generation. I mean, I
> definitely like FF6's graphics over FF7's, but to a degree I like them
> better than FF8 or FF9's, just because the texture mapping on the
> Playstation always seemed a bit weird. But then FFX came out and blew
> all sprites away.
Suikoden 2 does it's graphics very very well. S1 does as well, but S2
blows S1's graphics away. They're the same style, but by the time S2
came out, they had refined the look they used in 1. Especially with
regards to character portraits.
Oh, and while I'm on the subject of Suikoden 2, I might as well mention
it's biggest flaw. Forgot to bring it up earlier, it hadn't occurred to
me at the time. But the translation job on Suikoden II, while not as bad
as say, FF Tactics, is nonetheless quite bad at points. Most of the time
the dialogue is fine, but there are times which will have you cringe at
the shoddy job done.
Aside from these occasional lapses in translation, the game is one of
the best I have on the PSX.
> > > when finish the RPG I'm working on. Hmm... not that anyone but us
> is
> > > probably reading this, but does anyone out there happen to have RPG
> > > Maker and a DexDrive?
> >
> > Present!
>
> Sweet! If I ever get going with the whole thing, I'll have to give you
> a copy.
Cool. I'd like to promise the same, but I'm not sure if I'll ever finish
mine.
> > > > The SD series I like muchly, but I've not yet ever played a SaGa
> game.
> >
> > Update: I have now played (but not yet finished) FF Legend, which my
> > brother has for the GB.
>
> Nice! I always liked Legend 1 - it's incredibly simple, but it wasn't
> just another Final Fantasy (mainly because it *isn't* a Final Fantasy,
> but I didn't know that when I first played it years and years ago :) ).
> And the plot could use some work, true, but I love the ending in a sick,
> twisted kind of way.
No spoilers! I haven't gotten there yet!
But I agree, the plot is simple and straightforward.
> > Too many companies have that trepidation, not just Square.
> >
> > See, they have untried ideas, but their company bigwigs don't want to
> > risk that the games borne from these ideas won't sell. So don't blame
> > the people making the games, blame their execs.
>
> I've always wondered... video games are still a relatively new industry,
> and the basic way of doing things is make sequels to games that work.
> Will this ever change? I mean, there are plenty of new series starting
> even nowadays, but will people ever stop trying to make full series of
> games? And should they? I dunno...
No idea.
> > As I said, FF5 has also come over because of this. With their US
> > branch in new hands, we have seen a lot more out of Square.
>
> And we love them for it. :)
UDIC loving EA. Never thought I'd see the day.
> Up until the making of FF1+2 for PSX, this was a good point. But now
> they have every game we want in the US ported (or being ported, if
> rumors of FF3 for GBA are true) to a console that exists here. So
> bringing the games here wouldn't actually take any significant new
> programming, just localization. Of course, I don't know how the
> industry works, so I could be wrong about this, but it seems logical
> enough.
Ah, but think. FF1 and 2 remakes are different than their NES form. I've
seen screens; they've been given a facelift. And further, teaching a
PlayStation to do something takes a slightly different approach than
teaching an NES to do the same thing (one of the reasons FF4 PSX took so
long to hit stateside is because they had trouble getting the PSX to do
something the SNES did).
I'm no programmer, nor shall I ever be, but as best as I can tell, it
will take a bit of work to reprogram the game for new hardware.
> > Second, FFA had a shoddy translation and SD3 has no official
> translation
> > at all, so localization teams will need to be hired to do the job.
> >
> > I have no real idea what else would be needed, but those people will
> > need to be paid.
>
> This is true. I've always wondered how much it costs to localize a
> game.
Nor I, but they certainly don't show up, read screen upon screen of
text, then make it sensible all for the sheer joy of the art. :)
> > > Yeah, that's what I try to do now, but the sheer volume of games I
> > > have to play is intimidating.
> >
> > And whose fault is that? :P
> >
> > Don't worry, just keep at it.
>
> I'm chugging along. I just got back to Suikoden after I got the new
> Smackdown game for PS2 and unlocked everything I wanted, so we'll see
> what happens.
And do tell me what you think of the Suikodens.
-Lumina Dragon
Lumina Dragon
James Dowd wrote:
>
> "Lumina Dragon" <kewh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3DE03487...@hotmail.com...
> <snip superboss discussion>
> > Legend of Legaia has Lapis, for example. (Can't kill it; he's evil.)
Of note: I intend to kill it. it is one of two remaining loose ends left
for me to get on that game.
The other is equally daunting.
> > Vagrant Story has Asura.
> > Star Ocean 2 and Valkyrie Profile have the official superbosses of
> > tri-Ace, Gabriel Celeste and Iseria Queen (Note: I have played VP but
> > not SO2, and have met the superbosses in neither.
> > Tales of *cough*Eternia*cough* Destiny II has a superboss in it's
> > secret dungeon.
Forgot to note that this one I alsop haven't met or killed.
> I agree with your superboss notes on the FF series, but I forgot about
> Atma. I always forget that he's really hard until I fight him before
> opening the other save point in Kefka's Tower and getting my butt
> kicked. :)
The thing with Atma (FF6's mistranslation of Ultima (Weapon), used for
both the beast and the sword) is that there are two if it (not even
counting the aforementioned sword).
The first time you meet Atma is mandatory - on the Floating Continent,
just before The Climactic Plot Point That Shapes The Rest Of The Game.
He's not a superboss here, jsut a boss.
It is your second meeting with him, in K's tower, in which he is an
optional superboss.
> At any rate, I have to say I really like the superbosses in Valkyrie
> Profile. The whole bonus dungeon is a lot of fun, and one little thing
> in particular makes it worth it to play it at all. If you ever play it
> and beat it, make sure that after you go back to the beginning of the
> dungeon and save, you leave the dungeon (don't just reset or reload the
> game).
I eventually plan to play the game on Hard and thus unlock that dungeon,
and I shall keep your advice in mind.
> The bosses themselves are a bit silly, but its very satisfying to win a
> long, hard battle. Especially in Valkyrie Profile, where every battle
> feels like a fast paced Dragonball affair, what with all the yelling and
> ridiculous attacks. :)
Compared to what little I've seen of DBZ, snail-boxing would be fast
paced. :P
-Lumina Dragon
James Dowd
wrote, as I am wont to do. Unless I don't. Mwa ha ha ha!
"Lumina Dragon" <kewh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3DE55487...@hotmail.com...
>
<snippage of Chrono Cross questioning by yours truly>
> Best not to mention specifics where people who might not have played
it
> can hear, but pretty much any plot tie-ins to ChronoTrigger made far
too
> little sense, and further, any polot points revealed in the two major
> locations of the second disc made even less sense.
>
> Don't get me wrong; I liked the game, but it's far better to pretend
> it's unrelated to CT than to try and make sense of the continuity.
I guess I can agree with that. Somehow I didn't really mind the plot
gaps as much as I did with other games, though. Hell, looking back,
they have nothing to do with why I (retroactively) didn't like Chrono
Cross. Hmm...
<snippage of us clearly being superior in regards to FF7's ending ;)>
> But no one cares to listen to us!
Yeah, I know - sad, isn't it? Oh well, some people are just utterly
convinced of something and don't want to hear anyone else's side. I
mean, you could say I'm guilty of that on this very issue, but I never
really insisted that the people in question were *wrong* about the
ending (although I believed they are from the get-go), I just insisted
that (like in Eva and many other things that came out of Japan) there
was not enough evidence to say either way with any certainty. Hmm... I
tried to avoid spoilers, hopefully my point was still clear, though.
Not that anyone who's still reading this hasn't seen the previous
spoilers, but oh well.
<snippage - what I say really doesn't matter here :)>
> They had a good feeling. This is the way!
LOL. That pretty much stands on its own, I'd say.
> > Anyway, Xenogears hardly had a stellar translation from what I saw
of
> > it. Square's translations didn't start getting decent until around
the
> > release of Vagrant Story, IMO.
>
> I love this fact, because VS was done by the same people who did FFT.
> The irony kills me every single time.
>
> (Said people are Quest, also known for the Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre
> games; they just had Square publish FFT and VS, so the Squaresoft
label
> got slapped on.)
That *is* rather ironic. Any idea what happened between games?
<snip ranting about FF7-ers>
> The materia system, which I quite liked, got a lot of heckling by
> RPGamers. So did CC's Elements system, FF8's Junction system, and
> probably others. Those, I didn't mind either. I don't see what
> everyone's problem was there. Are they afraid to learn to use these
> things and thus make the game go along more smoothly?
Well, I tend to ignore heckling about magic systems and the like
nowadays, because it just isn't worth my time. However, I could point
out some flaws of the system that I've noticed... but why? They're
plenty good as is. (Although FF8's is really tedious until you figure
out that you don't ever *have* to draw spells from enemies, provided you
get the GF abilities to let you refine spells from the hundreds of items
enemies drop all the time.)
<snip boss conversation>
> Be lucky you're not trying to do what I'm trying to do on that game.
>
> The leveling I need to do for this would kill most mortals.
Heh. Have fun - after losing my level 80 FF6 party on my SNES due to a
slight bump to the system, I swore never to level a lot again. Of
course, I got to level 76 or so in FF4 (and we're talking
*power*-leveling, which if you've looked up FAQ's on FF4 you will
understand the tedium of), and about the same in 6 (again) on PSX.
On a totally random side note, I *hate* people who brag about how
powerful their RPG parties are. First of all, what are they trying to
prove? And second of all, who are they kidding? I still remember this
one kid who told me about his "legitimate level 99 party" in FF1.
Having legitimately gotten a party to the level cap of 50, I had a field
day with that one. >:D
> Heh. I myself replayed FF1 just this past summer. Did a great job on
it.
Yeah, that game somehow still manages to be fun with a complete lack of
complexity and some brutal difficulty. Modern RPG makers might learn
from that.
<snip more difficulty/boss conversation>
> You cannot beat Bahamut with the Wall spell alone. You need the
reflect
> items as well.
>
> And that's not even on active time, that's on only semi-active or
> whatever it was called.
True - in the Hard Type of the game. There *were* no wall items in the
US version, and you could get Wall on at least four party members, and
usually five (assuming you fought Bahamut with FuSoYa in the party)
pretty easily. However, the wall items seem to make the Hard Type
version of the boss actually *easier* than the Easy Type (US) version.
Ironic, eh?
> Regarding Lunar 2... I like some of the changes over the SCD version,
> but there's a lot I would have preferred kept as was.
>
> Great game in either version, though.
If I ever see anyone selling it new, I'll buy it. I don't think that's
even remotely possible, though... then again, I found Lunar 1 new after
it was out of print (apparently), so who knows?
<snippage of bitching about Noa from Legaia>
> Heh. Don't worry, some games have characters who weren't so isolated
yet
> still manage to be that annoying!
See, this is why I like PC games. If you think Imoen was really
annoying in Baldur's Gate, you can kill her. Apparently that's a very
satisfying act, too, although I never really had a problem with her so I
didn't notice. (What can I say, I needed a thief ;) )
<snippage>
> Heh. I have no idea what my mileage per block is so far. I only know
it
> will take more than one card to do it.
Crap... I just got to my second system block and I have almost nothing
defined... 15 characters and skills, 10 monsters, 3 spells, 4 dungeons
that hardly pass for dungeons, and 60 items. I suppose there's plenty
of hope (60 items is a good amount, after all), but who knows...
<Suikoden snip!>
> Having played both 1 and 2, I can say that there is a fair bit of
> character overlap, but not to the point of "too much". None of the
> overlap brings characters out of... out of their element, I should
say.
That's good. As long as the game makes you think the characters are
there because they should be, and not because they were in the previous
game, I'm happy. (I think that was a big problem with Chrono Cross -
like you alluded to, the game wouldn't be much different with no old
characters making any tie-ins at all.)
<snipped sprite conversation>
> Suikoden 2 does it's graphics very very well. S1 does as well, but S2
> blows S1's graphics away. They're the same style, but by the time S2
> came out, they had refined the look they used in 1. Especially with
> regards to character portraits.
Cool. The portraits in Suikoden I did seem a little silly at times, so
we'll see how much better they get if I ever beat it and move on to 2...
> Oh, and while I'm on the subject of Suikoden 2, I might as well
mention
> it's biggest flaw. Forgot to bring it up earlier, it hadn't occurred
to
> me at the time. But the translation job on Suikoden II, while not as
bad
> as say, FF Tactics, is nonetheless quite bad at points. Most of the
time
> the dialogue is fine, but there are times which will have you cringe
at
> the shoddy job done.
>
> Aside from these occasional lapses in translation, the game is one of
> the best I have on the PSX.
I've been playing video games since the NES days - I have built up a
good resistance to bad translation. I'll survive. ;)
<snip Dexdrive stuff>
> > Sweet! If I ever get going with the whole thing, I'll have to give
you
> > a copy.
>
> Cool. I'd like to promise the same, but I'm not sure if I'll ever
finish
> mine.
Me either, but I'm fairly confident that the only reason I wouldn't
would be so I could program it from scratch instead of using RPG Maker.
(Of course, I can think of a few other things that might make me stop...
a girlfriend, or a job perhaps, would be high on the list :) )
<snip FF1 almost-spoilers>
> No spoilers! I haven't gotten there yet!
>
> But I agree, the plot is simple and straightforward.
Heh, don't worry, I had to resist writing any more than I did, but I
managed it. Um... and that's all I'll say about that.
<snip porting/localization concerns>
> Ah, but think. FF1 and 2 remakes are different than their NES form.
I've
> seen screens; they've been given a facelift. And further, teaching a
> PlayStation to do something takes a slightly different approach than
> teaching an NES to do the same thing (one of the reasons FF4 PSX took
so
> long to hit stateside is because they had trouble getting the PSX to
do
> something the SNES did).
>
> I'm no programmer, nor shall I ever be, but as best as I can tell, it
> will take a bit of work to reprogram the game for new hardware.
Yeah, but my point is that Square has already done this... I'm not
calling for them to make new versions of games, I'm hoping they'll just
localize new versions *they already made*. And now that it has been
reported that FF1+2 are coming to the US, I guess I'll get what I wish.
:D
> And do tell me what you think of the Suikodens.
If I ever get around to finishing them. I just got and beat Metroid
Fusion (speaking of hard bosses, play that with a 39% completion rate...
ow), and I'm hard at work on my RPG, so Suikoden I is on the back burner
again. *sigh* Well, we'll see what happens. I might go back to it just
to spite the people who are like "So, is your RPG done yet?" every three
days. Fools. ;)
James Dowd
>
> James Dowd wrote:
> > At any rate, I have to say I really like the superbosses in Valkyrie
> > Profile. The whole bonus dungeon is a lot of fun, and one little
thing
> > in particular makes it worth it to play it at all. If you ever play
it
> > and beat it, make sure that after you go back to the beginning of
the
> > dungeon and save, you leave the dungeon (don't just reset or reload
the
> > game).
>
> I eventually plan to play the game on Hard and thus unlock that
dungeon,
> and I shall keep your advice in mind.
Eh... just FYI, it's not really "advice" so much as a tip to see
something that is unintentionally amusing. It only takes about five
seconds of your time (since you'll want to save after the boss anyway),
but I don't want to be misleading.
> > The bosses themselves are a bit silly, but its very satisfying to
win a
> > long, hard battle. Especially in Valkyrie Profile, where every
battle
> > feels like a fast paced Dragonball affair, what with all the yelling
and
> > ridiculous attacks. :)
>
> Compared to what little I've seen of DBZ, snail-boxing would be fast
> paced. :P
Hey, be fair, it has its moments. Of course, I basically got into DBZ
during the Frieza saga, which is apparently the slowest thing in the
entire series by leaps and bounds, so maybe I just think everything is
fast in comparison. ;)
joe_m
as far as sci-fi rpg's, Warren Spector's System Shock is the bomb.
on my hd now:
Ultima 4
Ultima 7 (BG and SI,Exult)
Elder Scrolls: Arena ( much preferred it to DF)
System Shock
System Shock 2
UW1+2
jDOOM (open gl+DX)
Baldur's Gate
Anvil of Dawn (kinda fun)
Everquest (yeah, whatever..) that's it-GvB Dragon
oh--Fractint-not a game but still love to play with it.