Ultima1 Remake - Design issues.
Telemachos
Ultima1 in a totally new engine. Until now we have tried to create a
copy as close to the original as possible but at the last team meeting
we let our minds fly and discussed various changes/additions to the
original game.
The more time we use on the project, the more we want this game to be
something special and there are lots of things which could be improved
from the original (at least we think so).
The game is first and foremost for ourselves - but it is also thought
as a present to the whole Ultima community on the net, so we value you
guys oppinions ALOT! After all - who would be better suited for
designing an ultima game than the fans.
Well, to cut to the cheese - what I hope to do with this post is to
start a discussion about the features I've suggested below and also
maybe get some new thoughts on the table. While I cannot promise to
include everything in the game (not even all the plans we have made
ourselves) I'll promise to be open for ideas - so this might be your
chance to affect the "next" ultima ;)
BTW - yesterday I updated the project page with some more screen-shots
for those interrested in eye-candy ;)
Here is the list of features we discussed :
- The most important change! This I would REALLY like some oppinions
on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
Suggestions are welcommed!!
The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
that can damage Mondain.
Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
- The towns will be in 3D (see an early example of the style on the
project page)
- The ability to bake bread ;)
- The monsters you are sent to kill in the kings quests should not
just be SOME monster. Instead of just saying : "go kill a rat" a
king would say something like : "go kill the Giant rat which has
been terrorizing the Dungeon of Mt. Drash on the Land of Lord B".
In other words, there will be unique quest monsters and they will
appear in only ONE dungeon which you must the find and explore.
This is to avoid that the game only takes place in ONE dungeon (as
it often does in the current version)
- Dungeons may vary in size and difficulty. It's not certain that a
dungeon has 10 levels and you cannot be sure that rats and thiefs
are on level 1-2 etc etc... Some dungeons might have demons on
level 1 and you would have to wait with the exploration of those.
Again this is to spread the game out to more areas.
- You can get small Subquests from people in the taverns. Reward
might be experience, gold or even a unique item like a magical
sword which cannot be optained elsewhere.
- Some monsters might have parts you can sell or trade with in
the towns. For example you might be able to sell a poison bag
from a giant spider to the local alhemist on a town. Of course
sometimes the poison bag is emptied or damaged during the battle so
not all battles with spiders gives you a bag.
- Monsters will be fewer and harder to kill in the dungeons. A kill
will then be more rewarding than in the original.
- Your characters level affects the power of the spells he throws
along with his intelligence. Some spells might be restricted to
higher levels.
- The experience needed to raise a level should not be linear. Maybe
we'll use the "classic" ultima system (200, 400, 800, etc...)
That was all for now, be sure to check the project page out ;) And I
really hope some of you haves some comments - together we can make
this a great game!!
Telemachos Dragon d-- e- N++ Om+ U1!234!5!6!7!S'!8!9!K!A!L!W!M
-==(UDIC)==- u++ uC uF- uG uLB uA nC nH+ nP+ nI nPT nS+ a22
The Peroxide Homepage : http://www.peroxide.dk
- Home of the PXDTUTS & Free Games
- Home of the Ultima 1 Remake!
Adam J. Cook
> - The most important change! This I would REALLY like some oppinions
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> Suggestions are welcommed!!
> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
> that can damage Mondain.
> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
All excellent ideas. The space sequence is one of the worst moments in
all of Ultima. A truly unenjoyable chore to complete.
Adam
Mils
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> Suggestions are welcommed!!
I'll absolutely have no problem with this, as long as you feel what
you're doing instead is worth it. I must say that the space part
was not my favorite one of U1.
> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
> that can damage Mondain.
It could be ince.
> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
Will you actually be able to experience the taming ? Or you just go to
a shop and get the Griffon.
Did someone say "Chocobo" ? :-)))
> - The towns will be in 3D (see an early example of the style on the
> project page)
Nice. I will have a look when I have time.
> - The ability to bake bread ;)
Waaaaho ! Will you be able to craft swords or something else ?
> - The monsters you are sent to kill in the kings quests should not
> just be SOME monster. Instead of just saying : "go kill a rat" a
> king would say something like : "go kill the Giant rat which has
> been terrorizing the Dungeon of Mt. Drash on the Land of Lord B".
> In other words, there will be unique quest monsters and they will
> appear in only ONE dungeon which you must the find and explore.
> This is to avoid that the game only takes place in ONE dungeon (as
> it often does in the current version)
Very nice. I always found it stupid for the king to send me kill a rat in a
dungeon far far
away.
> - Dungeons may vary in size and difficulty. It's not certain that a
> dungeon has 10 levels and you cannot be sure that rats and thiefs
> are on level 1-2 etc etc... Some dungeons might have demons on
> level 1 and you would have to wait with the exploration of those.
> Again this is to spread the game out to more areas.
Nice, but the player should have a chance to flee against the demons.
I mean, it would suck if you were killed by bad luck. Do dungeons
have themes ? (undead, animals, demons ?)
Difficulty should also be harder if you go deeper underground.
<jamiroquai mode on>
"I'm going deeeeepeer undergroouuuuunnndd"
<jamiroquai mode off>
Sorry.
> - You can get small Subquests from people in the taverns. Reward
> might be experience, gold or even a unique item like a magical
> sword which cannot be optained elsewhere.
Yippee !
> - Some monsters might have parts you can sell or trade with in
> the towns. For example you might be able to sell a poison bag
> from a giant spider to the local alhemist on a town. Of course
> sometimes the poison bag is emptied or damaged during the battle so
> not all battles with spiders gives you a bag.
Cool. Will you be able to make items out of these ?
> - Monsters will be fewer and harder to kill in the dungeons. A kill
> will then be more rewarding than in the original.
I had no problem with that in the original game.
> That was all for now, be sure to check the project page out ;) And I
> really hope some of you haves some comments - together we can make
> this a great game!!
>
> Telemachos Dragon d-- e- N++ Om+ U1!234!5!6!7!S'!8!9!K!A!L!W!M
Frankly Telemachos.....
<bows>
I'm expecting this game and I feel miserable.
Moa Dragon
J.P. Morris
>
> Here is the list of features we discussed :
>
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
Who. That could really upset the purists.
I haven't actually played U1 yet, but the bulk of what you're saying
sounds good to me. After all, I liked U9 ;-)
One thing that concerns me is this: the legal basis for your U1 remake
was that 'LB let you do it'. Since he no longer owns Ultima etc, is there
a danger of Origin coming down on you like a ton of bricks?
> That was all for now, be sure to check the project page out ;) And I
> really hope some of you haves some comments - together we can make
> this a great game!!
>
>
>
> Telemachos Dragon d-- e- N++ Om+ U1!234!5!6!7!S'!8!9!K!A!L!W!M
> -==(UDIC)==- u++ uC uF- uG uLB uA nC nH+ nP+ nI nPT nS+ a22
> The Peroxide Homepage : http://www.peroxide.dk
> - Home of the PXDTUTS & Free Games
> - Home of the Ultima 1 Remake!
--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- DOU...@bigfoot.com
Fun things to do with the Ultima games (http://ithe.cjb.net)
Developing a U6/U7 clone (http://fly.to/ire)
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KA u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)
Singing Dragon
> - The most important change! This I would REALLY like some oppinions
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> Suggestions are welcommed!!
> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
> that can damage Mondain.
> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
I really like this idea!!! Some people will certainly find it
changes too much (maybe you can have both versions in there - one
true to the original style, and one more in keeping with the fantasy
setting). A tournament sounds good, though if may be tricky to work
the balance well - after all, YOU'RE supposed to be the greatest
champion in the land - how would another knight have a chance? Maybe
special quests would be better...
Or just insert a game of Super Mario, and make you rescue the
princess that way.
> - The ability to bake bread ;)
Woohoo!
> - The monsters you are sent to kill in the kings quests should not
> just be SOME monster. Instead of just saying : "go kill a rat" a
> king would say something like : "go kill the Giant rat which has
> been terrorizing the Dungeon of Mt. Drash on the Land of Lord B".
> In other words, there will be unique quest monsters and they will
> appear in only ONE dungeon which you must the find and explore.
> This is to avoid that the game only takes place in ONE dungeon (as
> it often does in the current version)
ooo! Sounds good - you could recreate the whole minotaur in the
labyrinth thing.
--
Singing Dragon
-- Don't forget to *enjoy* the *sauce* --
Michael Lehmeier
>As some of you regulars know I'm currently working on recreating
>Ultima1 in a totally new engine. Until now we have tried to create a
>copy as close to the original as possible but at the last team meeting
>
>we let our minds fly and discussed various changes/additions to the
>original game.
Go along with the changes.
But if you do it, don't call it Ultima1 anymore. You are creating a different
game, maybe even an Ultima, but it will not be Ultima 1.
While I also didnt like the space things it is and will always be a part
of Ultima 1.
BTW, I think Ultima 2 is much more in need of a remake than U1.
--
Michael Lehmeier -==UDIC== Nightshade Dragon m_leh...@gmx.de
Musashi Dragon
following Twist material...
> - The most important change! This I would REALLY like some oppinions
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> Suggestions are welcommed!!
> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
> that can damage Mondain.
> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
Erm... how shall I put this... ick?
Yes, the Sci-Fi elements seemed to be tacked on to the end. And I'd
prefer a game that has magic swords and griffins (or griffons) instead
of phasers and aircars, and doing tournaments instead of space-ace
stuff.
But then it isn't Ultima 1. (Ultima 2 also has Sci-Fi elements, too.
:)
Now, there's absolutely nothing wrong with making a fantasy game that
isn't Ultime 1. In fact, that's what I'm encouraging you to do -- drop
the Ultima references (which will incidentally save you some legal
questions / issues) and then create the best possible game you can. And
it's looking great so far... :)
<snip other things>
I guess that this comes down to the question "when is a remake still a
remake?" I think that all of those changes apart from three or four
wouldn't fall under my definition of "remake"...
--
Musashi Dragon Graduate student of Innuendo and Twisting
-==(UDIC Greybread)==- Official rgcud NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!-sayer
Angle of Hot Sex GSD's Brat Child
Extremely Sic Linux Junkie
Dracos
wrote:
>As some of you regulars know I'm currently working on recreating
>Ultima1 in a totally new engine. Until now we have tried to create a
>copy as close to the original as possible but at the last team meeting
>
>we let our minds fly and discussed various changes/additions to the
>original game.
Will there be a conversation system?
--
Dracos, Dragon and -=<Bluebeard>=-
(Pontifex Minimus NC, Most Holy Mallard, Philosopher,
Possibly Passable, Plonked)
\_/
\|/
/___\
"Logic only gives you the authority to be wrong."
-The Second Doctor
Duo Maxwell
"Telemachos" <telem...@peroxide.dk> wrote in message
news:38f855d3...@news.stofanet.dk...
> As some of you regulars know I'm currently working on recreating
> Ultima1 in a totally new engine. Until now we have tried to create a
> copy as close to the original as possible but at the last team meeting
>
> we let our minds fly and discussed various changes/additions to the
> original game.
>
> something special and there are lots of things which could be improved
> from the original (at least we think so).
> The game is first and foremost for ourselves - but it is also thought
> as a present to the whole Ultima community on the net, so we value you
> guys oppinions ALOT! After all - who would be better suited for
> designing an ultima game than the fans.
>
> Well, to cut to the cheese - what I hope to do with this post is to
> start a discussion about the features I've suggested below and also
> maybe get some new thoughts on the table. While I cannot promise to
> include everything in the game (not even all the plans we have made
> ourselves) I'll promise to be open for ideas - so this might be your
> chance to affect the "next" ultima ;)
>
> BTW - yesterday I updated the project page with some more screen-shots
> for those interrested in eye-candy ;)
>
>
>
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> Suggestions are welcommed!!
> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
> that can damage Mondain.
> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
NOOOOOOO!!!!
I liked the spaceships and scifi stuff.
I killed Mondain with Bilbo Baggins, the Blaster Wielding Bobbit who somehow
managed to pilot a speeder bike. And he looked like an Exok from ROTJ doing
it!!
It wont even be an Ultima remake without the scifi.
I want my speeder bike....
Telemachos
Lehmeier) wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:11:47 GMT, Telemachos <telem...@peroxide.dk> wrote:
>>As some of you regulars know I'm currently working on recreating
>>Ultima1 in a totally new engine. Until now we have tried to create a
>>copy as close to the original as possible but at the last team meeting
>>
>>we let our minds fly and discussed various changes/additions to the
>>original game.
>
>Go along with the changes.
>But if you do it, don't call it Ultima1 anymore. You are creating a different
>game, maybe even an Ultima, but it will not be Ultima 1.
>While I also didnt like the space things it is and will always be a part
>of Ultima 1.
>
>BTW, I think Ultima 2 is much more in need of a remake than U1.
Yeah, graphics-wise. Actually there is already a windows port of
Ultima2 out there.
Claus Dragon
>
>
> Here is the list of features we discussed :
>
> - The most important change! This I would REALLY like some oppinions
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> Suggestions are welcommed!!
fantastic! that space reference is really annyoing!
> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
> that can damage Mondain.
> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
no scfi elements in a fantasy game. that´s something which annoyed me
when playing wizardry 7. swords, phasers, firearms, grenades??
fantasy heroes, stick to swords and magic!
>
> - The towns will be in 3D (see an early example of the style on the
> project page)
well, i would recommend to keep the "old ultima" 2D view. 3D reminds me
of other games (bards tale, wizardry, might & magic). and ultima should
be something completely different.
> - The ability to bake bread ;)
why that? for making your own food?
>
> - The monsters you are sent to kill in the kings quests should not
> just be SOME monster. Instead of just saying : "go kill a rat" a
> king would say something like : "go kill the Giant rat which has
> been terrorizing the Dungeon of Mt. Drash on the Land of Lord B".
> In other words, there will be unique quest monsters and they will
> appear in only ONE dungeon which you must the find and explore.
> This is to avoid that the game only takes place in ONE dungeon (as
> it often does in the current version)
OTOH, that could lead to encouraging, endless raids of the same dungeon
because you_just_can´t_find_that_three-times-damned_man-eating-rat.
if the first few monsters are not hidden too well, then it might work.
>
> - Dungeons may vary in size and difficulty. It's not certain that a
> dungeon has 10 levels and you cannot be sure that rats and thiefs
> are on level 1-2 etc etc... Some dungeons might have demons on
> level 1 and you would have to wait with the exploration of those.
> Again this is to spread the game out to more areas.
i hope you include different dungeon graphics as well...
why not creating a dungeon filled with orcs (orc warrior, orc chieftain,
orc archer, orc scout) and perhaps a few trolls? just like "the mines of
moria" in lord of the rings?
> - You can get small Subquests from people in the taverns. Reward
> might be experience, gold or even a unique item like a magical
> sword which cannot be optained elsewhere.
subquests are always good. when you don´t feel like hunting down
mondain, you do some other quests but enjoy the game nevertheless.
> - Some monsters might have parts you can sell or trade with in
> the towns. For example you might be able to sell a poison bag
> from a giant spider to the local alhemist on a town. Of course
> sometimes the poison bag is emptied or damaged during the battle so
> not all battles with spiders gives you a bag.
i hope that you can sell certain items only at certain places. that
means taking notes and so on. something without i can´t enjoy a game.
> - Your characters level affects the power of the spells he throws
> along with his intelligence. Some spells might be restricted to
> higher levels.
spell level system. great. do you still need to re-buy your spells after
use or do you have a spellbook?
> - The experience needed to raise a level should not be linear. Maybe
> we'll use the "classic" ultima system (200, 400, 800, etc...)
the ultima level-gaining system is great. use it.
> That was all for now, be sure to check the project page out ;) And I
> really hope some of you haves some comments - together we can make
> this a great game!!
what homepage???
claus dragon
Telemachos
wrote:
>> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
>> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
>> Suggestions are welcommed!!
>
>I'll absolutely have no problem with this, as long as you feel what
>you're doing instead is worth it. I must say that the space part
>was not my favorite one of U1.
Hmm.. it seems that most dragons are FOR that suggestion while many at
Horizons would call it blashpemy..
Hmm.. I'll have to see what people say during the next few days.
>> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
>> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
>> that can damage Mondain.
>
>It could be ince.
Someone reminded me elsewhere that having such a weapon is part of the
plot of Ultima 2 ;) Hmm.. I guess thats what missing a few !'s in the
signature will get me ;)
>> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
>> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
>
>Will you actually be able to experience the taming ? Or you just go to
>a shop and get the Griffon.
Hmm.. do you have any suggestions on how to tame a griffon ?
>> - The ability to bake bread ;)
>Waaaaho ! Will you be able to craft swords or something else ?
Maybe. I don't think that would be TOO hard to make...
>> - Dungeons may vary in size and difficulty. It's not certain that a
>> dungeon has 10 levels and you cannot be sure that rats and thiefs
>> are on level 1-2 etc etc... Some dungeons might have demons on
>> level 1 and you would have to wait with the exploration of those.
>> Again this is to spread the game out to more areas.
>
>Nice, but the player should have a chance to flee against the demons.
>I mean, it would suck if you were killed by bad luck. Do dungeons
>have themes ? (undead, animals, demons ?)
>Difficulty should also be harder if you go deeper underground.
Yes, of course. Probably the density of monsters will increase the
father down you go...
><jamiroquai mode on>
>"I'm going deeeeepeer undergroouuuuunnndd"
><jamiroquai mode off>
<Telemachos makes a few fancy dance steps>
>Sorry.
You are welcome ;)
>> - Some monsters might have parts you can sell or trade with in
>> the towns. For example you might be able to sell a poison bag
>> from a giant spider to the local alhemist on a town. Of course
>> sometimes the poison bag is emptied or damaged during the battle so
>> not all battles with spiders gives you a bag.
>Cool. Will you be able to make items out of these ?
Hmm, that reminds me of Betrayal at Krondor... maybe the poison sacks
of a spider could be applied to a sword or dagger....
>Frankly Telemachos.....
>
><bows>
>I'm expecting this game and I feel miserable.
I hope I wont dissapoint you ;) I want this game done more than anyone
else I think. I plan on using it to get into the industy in a year or
two - all major game companies wants people with previous experience
or a shipped product...
Telemachos
(Singing Dragon) wrote:
>> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
>> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
>
>I really like this idea!!! Some people will certainly find it
>changes too much (maybe you can have both versions in there - one
>true to the original style, and one more in keeping with the fantasy
>setting). A tournament sounds good, though if may be tricky to work
>the balance well - after all, YOU'RE supposed to be the greatest
>champion in the land - how would another knight have a chance? Maybe
>special quests would be better...
Yeah, you are right.. It would look wierd if you were bested by
another knight ;)
>Or just insert a game of Super Mario, and make you rescue the
>princess that way.
LOL.. Now THATS a new idea ;) You watch out or I'll add a sequence
involving jumping onto moving platforms over a pool of lava ;)
>> In other words, there will be unique quest monsters and they will
>> appear in only ONE dungeon which you must the find and explore.
>> This is to avoid that the game only takes place in ONE dungeon (as
>> it often does in the current version)
>
>ooo! Sounds good - you could recreate the whole minotaur in the
>labyrinth thing.
re-create WHAT ?
Telemachos
<Clau...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
>> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
>> that can damage Mondain.
>> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
>> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
>
>no scfi elements in a fantasy game. that´s something which annoyed me
>when playing wizardry 7. swords, phasers, firearms, grenades??
>fantasy heroes, stick to swords and magic!
I tend to agree ;)
>> - The towns will be in 3D (see an early example of the style on the
>> project page)
>
>well, i would recommend to keep the "old ultima" 2D view. 3D reminds me
>of other games (bards tale, wizardry, might & magic). and ultima should
>be something completely different.
Hmm... we'll have too see. We'll try towns both in the 3d and 2d
engine and see what works best..
>> - The ability to bake bread ;)
>
>why that? for making your own food?
Dragons! Lecture this youngster please ;)
>> - The monsters you are sent to kill in the kings quests should not
>> just be SOME monster. Instead of just saying : "go kill a rat" a
>> king would say something like : "go kill the Giant rat which has
>> been terrorizing the Dungeon of Mt. Drash on the Land of Lord B".
>> In other words, there will be unique quest monsters and they will
>> appear in only ONE dungeon which you must the find and explore.
>> This is to avoid that the game only takes place in ONE dungeon (as
>> it often does in the current version)
>
>OTOH, that could lead to encouraging, endless raids of the same dungeon
>because you_just_can´t_find_that_three-times-damned_man-eating-rat.
>if the first few monsters are not hidden too well, then it might work.
I thought it would have exactly the opposite effect. You would be
forced to explore many dungeons to finish the game. But I can see what
you mean.. Well, I COULD start out with a guided tour - but I
personally prefer the old-style hard-core ultima games where you are
just dropped into the game with no safety line...
>> - Dungeons may vary in size and difficulty. It's not certain that a
>> dungeon has 10 levels and you cannot be sure that rats and thiefs
>> are on level 1-2 etc etc... Some dungeons might have demons on
>> level 1 and you would have to wait with the exploration of those.
>> Again this is to spread the game out to more areas.
>
>i hope you include different dungeon graphics as well...
>why not creating a dungeon filled with orcs (orc warrior, orc chieftain,
>orc archer, orc scout) and perhaps a few trolls? just like "the mines of
>moria" in lord of the rings?
There will be different dungeon graphics. As for building dungeons
with themes - that will be up to the level designers. I would like to
include trolls because I have a cool idea for them ;)
>> - Some monsters might have parts you can sell or trade with in
>> the towns. For example you might be able to sell a poison bag
>> from a giant spider to the local alhemist on a town. Of course
>> sometimes the poison bag is emptied or damaged during the battle so
>> not all battles with spiders gives you a bag.
>
>i hope that you can sell certain items only at certain places. that
>means taking notes and so on. something without i can´t enjoy a game.
Good point, note taken. That will definitly be used in the game...
>> - Your characters level affects the power of the spells he throws
>> along with his intelligence. Some spells might be restricted to
>> higher levels.
>
>spell level system. great. do you still need to re-buy your spells after
>use or do you have a spellbook?
We have planned to implement spells as scrolls and potions. So yes,
you will have to buy or find new scrolls/potions during the game.
>> - The experience needed to raise a level should not be linear. Maybe
>> we'll use the "classic" ultima system (200, 400, 800, etc...)
>
>the ultima level-gaining system is great. use it.
*nods*
>> That was all for now, be sure to check the project page out ;) And I
>> really hope some of you haves some comments - together we can make
>> this a great game!!
>
>what homepage???
The one located at www.peroxide.dk (click the Ultima1 logo)
Lost Dragon
>> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
>> having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
Actually... I would suggest coming up with your own world and story.
It's more satisfying, you won't have any legal problems, the same
people will likely play the original game who would've played the
remake..
Just my 2 pence....
/| .oo__. .-----.=- -= Lost Dragon =- -=.-----. U
{ \| ,-'' | _O_ |==- -= Forever Dead Forgotten Lie =- -==| _O_ | D
`,_/'(_)\_ | | |==- Remembered Souls, They Cannot Die -==| | | I
<...{_)_)_''`-----`===-- http://www.lostdragon.com/ --==='-----' C
Goldenflame Dragon
(Telemachos) wrote:
>>> - The ability to bake bread ;)
>>
>>why that? for making your own food?
>
>Dragons! Lecture this youngster please ;)
>
"Ultima: It's all about baking bread."
<g>
>>OTOH, that could lead to encouraging, endless raids of the same dungeon
>>because you_just_can´t_find_that_three-times-damned_man-eating-rat.
>>if the first few monsters are not hidden too well, then it might work.
>
>I thought it would have exactly the opposite effect. You would be
>forced to explore many dungeons to finish the game. But I can see what
>you mean.. Well, I COULD start out with a guided tour - but I
>personally prefer the old-style hard-core ultima games where you are
>just dropped into the game with no safety line...
>
I guess it depends on teh size of the levels, whether the monster
wandered, and whether it definately spawned when you first arrived on a
level. I mean, having to go to 6 dungeons to get different stones was
fine. So long as there isn't a chance that you spend 30 minutes in the
right place and the creature you want isn't even there.
Goldenflame Dragon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-=<UDIC>=- Goldenflame Dragon http://www.tumbolia.org/golden.html
d++ e++ N++ T-- Om++ UK1!2!3!4!5!6!7'!S'!8!A u++ uC++ uF- uG++ uLB++
uA(+) nC+ nR nH+ nP+ nI nPT+(++) nS++ nTo++ oA++ oE oy++ a24
In the beginning was the Word.
In the end... past honor, past life, past caring...
In the end will be the Word.
Ophidian
> Ultima1 in a totally new engine. Until now we have tried to create a
> copy as close to the original as possible but at the last team meeting
Ultima 1 was a simple game for simple times (as far as CRPG's go). Removing
the space elements robs the game of its character--It will be an RPG, but it
will no longer be Ultima 1. I suggest creating your own game, like several
others. True, the space and sci-fi sequences do not fit in perfectly. But,
it was an early game by a young Lord British who was experimenting and
trying to push as much as he could into the game--I think it then stands on
its own merits.
> The more time we use on the project, the more we want this game to be
> something special and there are lots of things which could be improved
> from the original (at least we think so).
One person's improvement is another's detriment. As soon as you begin
modifying the storyline or the character of the game, you cease to be
creating a remake, and instead you are producing a spin-off.
> The game is first and foremost for ourselves - but it is also thought
> as a present to the whole Ultima community on the net, so we value you
> guys oppinions ALOT! After all - who would be better suited for
> designing an ultima game than the fans.
That's a noble ideal, so why not design an altogether new game? A new
Ultima to continue where the series left off; or a new game altogether.
> - The most important change! This I would REALLY like some oppinions
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> Suggestions are welcommed!!
I would prefer that if you intend to call the game "Ultima 1" that you
remain faithful to the original game. THis sounds like what happens when
you create a movie spinoff of a book--things get dropped, things get
added--to the point that the novel's author refuses to endorse the movie at
it is no longer representative of the work from whence it came.
> - The towns will be in 3D (see an early example of the style on the
> project page)
Stick to a single perspective throughout.
> - The ability to bake bread ;)
Baking bread is not an end into itself, it must be placed into a contect of
a fully interactive world. Ultima 1's plot is too simple to allow for that.
Perhaps a new game would be appropriate; IIRC the title, "World of Ultima"
has lost its trademark....
> - Monsters will be fewer and harder to kill in the dungeons. A kill
> will then be more rewarding than in the original.
Wandering dungeons for a specific kind of monster is annoying enough without
wandering randomly and prayin you happen to bump into it...
Again, I suggest you stick to the original or create your own game, perhaps
an Ultima spinoff. I am quite happy with U1 as it is, because I take into
account the time and philosophy behind its creation.
-Ophidian
Wtcher Dragon
Ophidian wrote:
> I would prefer that if you intend to call the game "Ultima 1" that you
> remain faithful to the original game. THis sounds like what happens when
> you create a movie spinoff of a book--things get dropped, things get
> added--to the point that the novel's author refuses to endorse the movie at
> it is no longer representative of the work from whence it came.
>
The sequel to Jurassic Park was a totally different story. *sigh*
Wtcher Dragon
Errr, book versus movie.
And don't you hate how in some movies coming from tv they change the
voices/people/actors? :P
dai...@my-deja.com
appearing in Deja from that one either. So, back to My DN, I suppose.
*sigh*]
Quoth telem...@peroxide.dk (Telemachos):
[munch]
> - The most important change! This I would REALLY like some oppinions
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> Suggestions are welcommed!!
> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more
> fantasy like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the
> only thing that can damage Mondain. Instead of air-cars you'll be
> able to buy or tame a griffon which have the same moving abilities
> as the air-car.
I would actually prefer to see the space references left in, TBH. It
reminds us that Ultima doesn't take place in a completely isolated
environment -- it is part of a wider universe. The Kilrathi ship in U7
and other elements of higher technology elsewhere in the games would
make less sense if there were no technology in U1. Saruman Dragon and I
even came up with quite a nice little explanation of why technology
disappeared from Sosaria as time went on, so that there is none at all
by the time of U4.
Besides, I've always been a fan of the 'Masters of the Universe'-style
techno-magical settings, and it's nice to have at least one CRPG around
that caters for it. :)
FWIW, if the technical items existing worries you, I'd suggest making
them a lot harder to find (special quest necessary for aircar, rather
than simply buying it, and so on. Also, assuming the Stranger is from
present-day Earth, he or she would not be able to use the spacecraft
without some degree of training. Perhaps this could be another special
quest?
> - The towns will be in 3D (see an early example of the style on the
> project page)
Fine. This _is_ a remake, after all, and updated graphics are part of
that.
> - The ability to bake bread ;)
Cool, but the more touches like this you add, the further away from the
original U1 it gets.
> - The monsters you are sent to kill in the kings quests should not
> just be SOME monster. Instead of just saying : "go kill a rat" a
> king would say something like : "go kill the Giant rat which has
> been terrorizing the Dungeon of Mt. Drash on the Land of Lord B".
> In other words, there will be unique quest monsters and they will
> appear in only ONE dungeon which you must the find and explore.
> This is to avoid that the game only takes place in ONE dungeon (as
> it often does in the current version)
Given what I've said about departing from the original, this suggestion
does make more sense from a game perspective, IMHO.
Why on earth should a King care if there happens to be a gelatinous cube
in some of the dungeons in others' lands. If it is to solve a specific
problem, the plot holds together somewhat better. I've also commented
before on how it would be nice to know _why_ the Kings want these quests
performed.
> - Dungeons may vary in size and difficulty. It's not certain that a
> dungeon has 10 levels
Fine. They'll be more like the dungeons in later Ultimas, then, which
is a good thing IMHO.
> and you cannot be sure that rats and thiefs are on level 1-2 etc
> etc... Some dungeons might have demons on level 1 and you would
> have to wait with the exploration of those. Again this is to
> spread the game out to more areas.
Okay. I, personally, would prefer dungeons à-la U6 anyway, where they
are a series of caves and mines rather than a seemingly man-made
subterranean complex. It might be nice to have some dungeons where one
type of monster is prevalent, too, to simulate thief hide-outs and orc
dens.
> - You can get small Subquests from people in the taverns. Reward
> might be experience, gold or even a unique item like a magical
> sword which cannot be optained elsewhere.
Fine, though not strictly in keeping with U1.
> - Some monsters might have parts you can sell or trade with in
> the towns. For example you might be able to sell a poison bag
> from a giant spider to the local alhemist on a town. Of course
> sometimes the poison bag is emptied or damaged during the battle
> so not all battles with spiders gives you a bag.
Likewise.
> - Monsters will be fewer and harder to kill in the dungeons. A kill
> will then be more rewarding than in the original.
Fair enough. Realistically, there is no way a local ecology could
support the number of monsters in U1's dungeons, anyway.
> - Your characters level affects the power of the spells he throws
> along with his intelligence. Some spells might be restricted to
> higher levels.
Makes sense.
> - The experience needed to raise a level should not be linear. Maybe
> we'll use the "classic" ultima system (200, 400, 800, etc...)
That would be nice, yes, again to give it a more consistent feel with
the later Ultimas.
Another suggestion, unrelated to the above, is to provide a way for
regaining hitpoints other than leaving dungeons or transacting with
Kings. Both made absolutely no sense to me, though I suppose one could
rationalise the leaving dungeons one by saying the PC stops to rest
outside the cave entrance after staggering back towards the sunlight.
>That was all for now, be sure to check the project page out ;) And I
>really hope some of you haves some comments - together we can make
>this a great game!!
Let's hope so, but the caveat is that the more you change, the less the
game you are producing is Ultima 1.
--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon ~~ UDIC Code ~~
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'L8u-uC++
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\ \ \ (Note Reply-To addy) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a24
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dominik R.
news:DldK4.32901$y4.11...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> Telemachos <telem...@peroxide.dk> wrote in message
> news:38f855d3...@news.stofanet.dk...
> > As some of you regulars know I'm currently working on recreating
> > Ultima1 in a totally new engine. Until now we have tried to create a
> > copy as close to the original as possible but at the last team meeting
>
> Ultima 1 was a simple game for simple times (as far as CRPG's go).
Removing
> the space elements robs the game of its character--It will be an RPG, but
it
> will no longer be Ultima 1. I suggest creating your own game, like
several
> others. True, the space and sci-fi sequences do not fit in perfectly.
But,
> it was an early game by a young Lord British who was experimenting and
> trying to push as much as he could into the game--I think it then stands
on
> its own merits.
I tend to agree
> > The more time we use on the project, the more we want this game to be
> > something special and there are lots of things which could be improved
> > from the original (at least we think so).
>
> One person's improvement is another's detriment. As soon as you begin
> modifying the storyline or the character of the game, you cease to be
> creating a remake, and instead you are producing a spin-off.
>
> > The game is first and foremost for ourselves - but it is also thought
> > as a present to the whole Ultima community on the net, so we value you
> > guys oppinions ALOT! After all - who would be better suited for
> > designing an ultima game than the fans.
>
> That's a noble ideal, so why not design an altogether new game? A new
> Ultima to continue where the series left off; or a new game altogether.
>
> > - The most important change! This I would REALLY like some oppinions
> > on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> > having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> > something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> > tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> > Suggestions are welcommed!!
>
> I would prefer that if you intend to call the game "Ultima 1" that you
> remain faithful to the original game. THis sounds like what happens when
> you create a movie spinoff of a book--things get dropped, things get
> added--to the point that the novel's author refuses to endorse the movie
at
> it is no longer representative of the work from whence it came.
Without that stupid space stuff it is no longer U1 (as sad as it is)...
> > - The towns will be in 3D (see an early example of the style on the
> > project page)
>
> Stick to a single perspective throughout.
>
> > - The ability to bake bread ;)
>
> Baking bread is not an end into itself, it must be placed into a contect
of
> a fully interactive world. Ultima 1's plot is too simple to allow for
that.
> Perhaps a new game would be appropriate; IIRC the title, "World of Ultima"
> has lost its trademark....
In most Ultimas you couldn´t bake bread and those were really good Ultimas,
so I couldn´t care less about this ability. Sorry...
> > - Monsters will be fewer and harder to kill in the dungeons. A kill
> > will then be more rewarding than in the original.
>
> Wandering dungeons for a specific kind of monster is annoying enough
without
> wandering randomly and prayin you happen to bump into it...
>
> Again, I suggest you stick to the original or create your own game,
perhaps
> an Ultima spinoff. I am quite happy with U1 as it is, because I take into
> account the time and philosophy behind its creation.
Hm, yes call it "Ultima1 Changed", or just "An early Ultima"...
I´m looking forward to this game but I hope you won´t change too much.
--
Dom
http://members.aol.com/machtfluss/
Boa XXIII
wrote:
> - The towns will be in 3D (see an early example of the style on the
> project page)
Neat.
> - The ability to bake bread ;)
Well, nice, just remember not to plan TOO much; finish a fully
functioning "remake", and then start to add this stuff.
> - The monsters you are sent to kill in the kings quests should not
> just be SOME monster. Instead of just saying : "go kill a rat" a
> king would say something like : "go kill the Giant rat which has
> been terrorizing the Dungeon of Mt. Drash on the Land of Lord B".
> In other words, there will be unique quest monsters and they will
> appear in only ONE dungeon which you must the find and explore.
> This is to avoid that the game only takes place in ONE dungeon (as
> it often does in the current version)
Unique monsters like Diablo?
> - You can get small Subquests from people in the taverns. Reward
> might be experience, gold or even a unique item like a magical
> sword which cannot be optained elsewhere.
Yeah.
> - Some monsters might have parts you can sell or trade with in
> the towns. For example you might be able to sell a poison bag
> from a giant spider to the local alhemist on a town. Of course
> sometimes the poison bag is emptied or damaged during the battle so
> not all battles with spiders gives you a bag.
Yeah.
> - Monsters will be fewer and harder to kill in the dungeons. A kill
> will then be more rewarding than in the original.
Yeah.
> - Your characters level affects the power of the spells he throws
> along with his intelligence. Some spells might be restricted to
> higher levels.
Yeah.
> - The experience needed to raise a level should not be linear. Maybe
> we'll use the "classic" ultima system (200, 400, 800, etc...)
Yeah.
-Boa
Mils
> >you're doing instead is worth it. I must say that the space part
> >was not my favorite one of U1.
>
> Hmm.. it seems that most dragons are FOR that suggestion while many at
> Horizons would call it blashpemy..
> Hmm.. I'll have to see what people say during the next few days.
Do as you feel. If you're not sure about how to do it and decide to
make it even then the odds are that it is going to suck. (no offense meant.)
> >> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
> >> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
> >> that can damage Mondain.
> >
> >It could be ince.
>
> Someone reminded me elsewhere that having such a weapon is part of the
> plot of Ultima 2 ;) Hmm.. I guess thats what missing a few !'s in the
> signature will get me ;)
That's Enilno yes.
(Why the heck Enilno is Online backwards ?)
> >> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
> >> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
> >Will you actually be able to experience the taming ? Or you just go to
> >a shop and get the Griffon.
> Hmm.. do you have any suggestions on how to tame a griffon ?
You meet a Griffon on a random encounter, throw vegetables at him and
kill the other monsters around, while feeding the Griffon with vegetables
with some folk music on the background.
Nah. That's a bit too FF7 like :p
There surely is a way :p
> >> - The ability to bake bread ;)
> >Waaaaho ! Will you be able to craft swords or something else ?
>
> Maybe. I don't think that would be TOO hard to make...
Maybe you'd need to forge the Ultra Magic Sword That Kills Mondain.
> >Nice, but the player should have a chance to flee against the demons.
> >I mean, it would suck if you were killed by bad luck. Do dungeons
> >have themes ? (undead, animals, demons ?)
> >Difficulty should also be harder if you go deeper underground.
>
> Yes, of course. Probably the density of monsters will increase the
> father down you go...
Hmmm, and about the strength of these monsters ?
> ><jamiroquai mode on>
> >"I'm going deeeeepeer undergroouuuuunnndd"
> ><jamiroquai mode off>
> <Telemachos makes a few fancy dance steps>
> >Sorry.
> You are welcome ;)
I couldn't help myself from doing this.
> Hmm, that reminds me of Betrayal at Krondor... maybe the poison sacks
> of a spider could be applied to a sword or dagger....
And what about making an armor out of Dragon Scales ?
(Not MY scales though :p )
> I hope I wont dissapoint you ;) I want this game done more than anyone
> else I think. I plan on using it to get into the industy in a year or
> two - all major game companies wants people with previous experience
> or a shipped product...
> Telemachos Dragon d-- e- N++ Om+ U1!234!5!6!7!S'!8!9!K!A!L!W!M
If it turns out as well as it looks and reads, then I have no doubt you will
find easily job in this industry.
Oh, and BTW, what about multiplayer ? Would it be too hard to implement ?
Moa Dragon
Vulcan Dragon
telem...@peroxide.dk (Telemachos) revealed:
>Well, to cut to the cheese - what I hope to do with this post is to
>start a discussion about the features I've suggested below and also
>maybe get some new thoughts on the table.
I haven't read any of the other responses yet, so forgive me if I say
something that has already been said.
>Here is the list of features we discussed :
>
> - The most important change! This I would REALLY like some oppinions
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> Suggestions are welcommed!!
> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
> that can damage Mondain.
> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
Personally, I don't like this. The entire game revolves around putting
together a time-travel device. Why is it so far fetched to include some
sci-fi elements in the game? From the other angle, if the entire world
is fantasy based, the time ship seems very out of place as the primary
quest.
As an alternative, perhaps you could integrate the time travel into the
game more. Perhaps you are not building the time ship from scratch, but
instead discovered it. Each subquest that formerly built the timeship
can now simply enable a jump to a different time period. I'm not
talking about new maps in each period like in U2 (although it's not a
terrible idea), but definitely making the more advanced technology
available. Perhaps changing the textures and monsters that wander
around could be done as well. Then the Space Ace quest could be part of
the most advanced time period and it would fit right in.
Just some ideas of course, but I would certainly not change the game to
the extent that dropping the sci-fi would do.
The other ideas you tossed out were good. One other idea I would add is
changing the way hit points are attained. Killing monsters in a dungeon
and getting out alive does not make any sense as the way acquire hit
points.
========================================================================
Vulcan Dragon -=(UDIC)=- mcar...@columbus.rr.com
Lord of the Chicken Wings
Vulcan Dragon
<mi...@club-internet.fr> revealed:
>That's Enilno yes.
>
>(Why the heck Enilno is Online backwards ?)
Because Sierra Online was the publisher.
Vulcan Dragon
<Clau...@hotmail.com> revealed:
>no scfi elements in a fantasy game. that´s something which annoyed me
>when playing wizardry 7. swords, phasers, firearms, grenades??
>fantasy heroes, stick to swords and magic!
This is rubbish. I bet you're one of those people who thinks Star Wars
is sci-fi, aren't you? It is very possible to mix traditional
swords-and-sorcery elements with futuristic elements and still be
fantasy.
Boa XXIII
Dragon) wrote:
>On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 01:37:18 +0200, a Vulcan mind-meld with Claus Dragon
><Clau...@hotmail.com> revealed:
>
>>no scfi elements in a fantasy game. that´s something which annoyed me
>>when playing wizardry 7. swords, phasers, firearms, grenades??
>>fantasy heroes, stick to swords and magic!
>
>This is rubbish. I bet you're one of those people who thinks Star Wars
>is sci-fi, aren't you? It is very possible to mix traditional
>swords-and-sorcery elements with futuristic elements and still be
>fantasy.
Otherland?
-Boa
WernerP
>
>
>Yeah, graphics-wise. Actually there is already a windows port of
>Ultima2 out there.
Where?
Werner
WernerP
>
>http://ultima2.voyd.net/
>You need the original U2 in order to run it.
Hey runs great, thanks.
Werner
Singing Dragon
>>labyrinth thing.
>
>re-create WHAT ?
Theseus... Isle of Crete. Minotaur. Rar. :)
Singing Dragon
>On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 01:37:18 +0200, a Vulcan mind-meld with Claus Dragon
><Clau...@hotmail.com> revealed:
>
>>no scfi elements in a fantasy game. that´s something which annoyed me
>>when playing wizardry 7. swords, phasers, firearms, grenades??
>>fantasy heroes, stick to swords and magic!
>
>This is rubbish. I bet you're one of those people who thinks Star Wars
>is sci-fi, aren't you? It is very possible to mix traditional
>swords-and-sorcery elements with futuristic elements and still be
>fantasy.
Depends WHICH elements you're mixing, really... I mean, having
someone flying a spaceship, fighting off bug eyed aliens with a
sword is more than a bit messed up... Though star wars DOES manage
to fit the sword (light sabers) in with the other stuff very very
nicely. Generally, really low-tech just doesn't stand a chance
against very high tech, so it's silly to put them in the same game
together....
Singing Dragon
>Hmm.. do you have any suggestions on how to tame a griffon ?
Feed it cake.
Wtcher Dragon
Singing Dragon wrote:
>
> Telemachos, you shouldn't talk with your mouth full...
> >Hmm.. do you have any suggestions on how to tame a griffon ?
>
> Feed it cake.
>
It is edible.
Vulcan Dragon
jo...@redowl.penguinpowered.com (Singing Dragon) revealed:
>Vulcan Dragon, you shouldn't talk with your mouth full...
>>This is rubbish. I bet you're one of those people who thinks Star Wars
>>is sci-fi, aren't you? It is very possible to mix traditional
>>swords-and-sorcery elements with futuristic elements and still be
>>fantasy.
>
>Depends WHICH elements you're mixing, really... I mean, having
>someone flying a spaceship, fighting off bug eyed aliens with a
>sword is more than a bit messed up... Though star wars DOES manage
>to fit the sword (light sabers) in with the other stuff very very
>nicely.
The lightsabre was a good example. It's a traditional fantasy element
(a magic sword) placed in a sci-fi context.
>Generally, really low-tech just doesn't stand a chance
>against very high tech, so it's silly to put them in the same game
>together....
Oh really? Have you seem some of the magic spells available in
traditional fantasy genres? That droid army from Phantom Menace would
have crumbled under a Tiltowait spell. Darth Vader can be taken down to
1 hit point with a Mabadi spell. (Why am I remembering all these
Wizardry I spells all of the sudden?) And the only difference between
Armageddon and the Death Star is that Armageddon leaves the big dead
rock hanging in space instead of vaporizing it.
My point is that once you start injecting magic into your fantasy
setting, which I think most of us agree is a good idea, saying that
traditional sci-fi elements are an odd fit is at that point purely a
matter of personal taste. And considering the raging success of the
Final Fantasy series, I know that many people *like* the mix.
Musashi Dragon
with the following Twist material...
> Vulcan Dragon, you shouldn't talk with your mouth full...
> >Armageddon and the Death Star is that Armageddon leaves the big dead
> >rock hanging in space instead of vaporizing it.
>
> only the most powerful mages (and often not even them) have the
> power to do things like that, whereas anyone can get a gun and shoot
> someone....
Anybody can try to shoot someone, but unless you spend time learning how
to aim, you probably won't kill them. Movies and such have given us a
very warped idea of how accurate guns are... at least, that's what the
only person that I know who's used guns says. :)
But anybody can still cast armageddon in a fantasy setting -- if a mage
creates an item that does it (potion, scroll, whatever). The proper
analogy to a fantasy setting is that, while not everybody can cast
armageddon, not everybody can assemble a nuclear bomb from the seperate
materials. :)
--
Musashi Dragon Graduate student of Innuendo and Twisting
-==(UDIC Greybread)==- Official rgcud NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!-sayer
Angle of Hot Sex GSD's Brat Child
Extremely Sic Linux Junkie
Zarathustra Dragon
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> Suggestions are welcommed!!
> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
> that can damage Mondain.
> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
By changing those things you are creating a new game instead of remaking an
old one.
> - The towns will be in 3D (see an early example of the style on the
> project page)
Good idea.
> - The ability to bake bread ;)
Then it shall be a glorious rebirth for U1
> - The monsters you are sent to kill in the kings quests should not
> just be SOME monster. Instead of just saying : "go kill a rat" a
> king would say something like : "go kill the Giant rat which has
> been terrorizing the Dungeon of Mt. Drash on the Land of Lord B".
> In other words, there will be unique quest monsters and they will
> appear in only ONE dungeon which you must the find and explore.
> This is to avoid that the game only takes place in ONE dungeon (as
> it often does in the current version)
It depends on the player, but again you are making too important changes.
> - Dungeons may vary in size and difficulty. It's not certain that a
> dungeon has 10 levels and you cannot be sure that rats and thiefs
> are on level 1-2 etc etc... Some dungeons might have demons on
> level 1 and you would have to wait with the exploration of those.
> Again this is to spread the game out to more areas.
It may be nice.
> - You can get small Subquests from people in the taverns. Reward
> might be experience, gold or even a unique item like a magical
> sword which cannot be optained elsewhere.
Too important change... (it would be really useful if your project wasn't a
remake of Ultima I)
> - Some monsters might have parts you can sell or trade with in
> the towns. For example you might be able to sell a poison bag
> from a giant spider to the local alhemist on a town. Of course
> sometimes the poison bag is emptied or damaged during the battle so
> not all battles with spiders gives you a bag.
That's fine
> - Monsters will be fewer and harder to kill in the dungeons. A kill
> will then be more rewarding than in the original.
Very good point!
> - Your characters level affects the power of the spells he throws
> along with his intelligence. Some spells might be restricted to
> higher levels.
Good
> - The experience needed to raise a level should not be linear. Maybe
> we'll use the "classic" ultima system (200, 400, 800, etc...)
A good idea
> That was all for now, be sure to check the project page out ;) And I
> really hope some of you haves some comments - together we can make
> this a great game!!
I'm sure it will be a great game, but you have to chose either remaking
Ultima I which involves some restrictions or creating a new Ultima game with
all the improvements you've mentioned. The choice is yours.
Zarathustra Dragon
Red Right Hand
r...@list.pl
Paulon
> telem...@peroxide.dk (Telemachos) wrote:
> Where?
You need the original U2 in order to run it.
--
Paulon Dragon d++ e- N T+ Om U1!2!3!4!5!6!7'!S'!8!9!K!A!L!W!M!
-==(UDIC)==- u++ uC+ uF uG uLB+ uA+ nC nH+ nI nPT nS+ nT+ y?
The Other Codex http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~paulryan/Ultima/
Settle for what you can get, but first ask for the World
Ka'a Orto'o, Gnomic Utterances, C IV
Negate the Spell to Wish me Well...
Singing Dragon
>>against very high tech, so it's silly to put them in the same game
>>together....
>
>Oh really? Have you seem some of the magic spells available in
>traditional fantasy genres? That droid army from Phantom Menace would
>have crumbled under a Tiltowait spell. Darth Vader can be taken down to
>1 hit point with a Mabadi spell. (Why am I remembering all these
>Armageddon and the Death Star is that Armageddon leaves the big dead
>rock hanging in space instead of vaporizing it.
However, in most fantasy settings (the ones that make much sense)
only the most powerful mages (and often not even them) have the
power to do things like that, whereas anyone can get a gun and shoot
someone....
>My point is that once you start injecting magic into your fantasy
>setting, which I think most of us agree is a good idea, saying that
>traditional sci-fi elements are an odd fit is at that point purely a
>matter of personal taste. And considering the raging success of the
>Final Fantasy series, I know that many people *like* the mix.
I think the real point is that you have to explain how everything
happens - the lightsabers are somewhat explained, and given the
Jedi's powers, it fits in nicely. Likewise, in Dune, the
swordfighting is explained by the ubiquitous prescence of the
Shields (a very nifty little device).
I just think it gets a little silly when you have people strolling
about with swords and axes fighting robots with kill-o-zap guns,
etc... when it's not handled well, with a story to explain the
disparate levels of tech, it can get pretty goofy.
Singing Dragon
>Anybody can try to shoot someone, but unless you spend time learning how
>to aim, you probably won't kill them. Movies and such have given us a
>very warped idea of how accurate guns are... at least, that's what the
>only person that I know who's used guns says. :)
You don't have to be too accurate with a grenade... ;)
But that is true of course. Though the same can be said of fantasy
weapons - sure, you can hurt someone if you have an axe, but they
can probably get out of the way/defend themselves if you don't know
what you're doing...
>But anybody can still cast armageddon in a fantasy setting -- if a mage
>creates an item that does it (potion, scroll, whatever). The proper
>analogy to a fantasy setting is that, while not everybody can cast
>armageddon, not everybody can assemble a nuclear bomb from the seperate
>materials. :)
Depends on your setting... But I suppose that's possible in most of
them. Just like the powerful mages generally don't create artifacts
like that, and then CERTAINLY don't leave them lying around,
governments don't typically have their nuclear arsenals sitting
where anyone can get at them. :)
Anyway, I do think crossovers can work very well, but some that I've
seen, like u1 that started this, don't bother to explain anything
whatsoever... they just have guns. And space ships. That bugs me...
Dominik R.
news:PTpK4.90366$1C2.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Vulcan Dragon, you shouldn't talk with your mouth full...
> >On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 01:37:18 +0200, a Vulcan mind-meld with Claus Dragon
> ><Clau...@hotmail.com> revealed:
> >
> >>no scfi elements in a fantasy game. that´s something which annoyed me
> >>when playing wizardry 7. swords, phasers, firearms, grenades??
> >>fantasy heroes, stick to swords and magic!
> >
> >is sci-fi, aren't you? It is very possible to mix traditional
> >swords-and-sorcery elements with futuristic elements and still be
> >fantasy.
>
> Depends WHICH elements you're mixing, really... I mean, having
> someone flying a spaceship, fighting off bug eyed aliens with a
> sword is more than a bit messed up... Though star wars DOES manage
> to fit the sword (light sabers) in with the other stuff very very
> against very high tech, so it's silly to put them in the same game
> together....
possible that a story is set in a typical fantasy world where they get
visited by aliens?
Why are people so opposed to this fantasy/scifi mix. For me both belonged
more together than apart.
Did anybody read the Darksword-Series? Admittedly not very good, but it had
me hooked anyway (could be that it was because I was travelling NZ and in
every second backpacker I came upon another book of the series). This series
started off as a typical fantasystory (featuring a Blackrock-Sword !!!) and
ended up in a kind of Sci-Fi one...
Singing Dragon
>Well, normally fantasy stories feature stars and such... Why is it not
>possible that a story is set in a typical fantasy world where they get
>visited by aliens?
Again, I'm not opposed to the idea, but they way it can be carried
out - if a fantasy world is attacked by aliens, and must fight them
using the tools at their disposal, great! (kinda war or the worlds
ish...) but if there are aliens with big guns, and a bunch of people
walking around with swords just for the hell of it... credibility
goes out the window. :)
Claus Dragon
>
> On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 01:37:18 +0200, a Vulcan mind-meld with Claus Dragon
> <Clau...@hotmail.com> revealed:
>
> >no scfi elements in a fantasy game. that´s something which annoyed me
> >when playing wizardry 7. swords, phasers, firearms, grenades??
> >fantasy heroes, stick to swords and magic!
>
> This is rubbish. I bet you're one of those people who thinks Star Wars
> is sci-fi, aren't you? It is very possible to mix traditional
> swords-and-sorcery elements with futuristic elements and still be
> fantasy.
vulcan, you have lost your bet. i don´t think star wars is sci-fi.
sure, it is possible to mix all styles, look at "dune": there you have
shields, lasguns, swords, aristocrazy, atomic bombs, spaceships and
magic (bene gesserit training).
but as far as the ultima series is concerned, i am of the opinion that
this mix does not really work. period.
claus dragon
Claus Dragon
>
> jo...@redowl.penguinpowered.com (Singing Dragon) revealed:
>
>
> >>This is rubbish. I bet you're one of those people who thinks Star Wars
> >>is sci-fi, aren't you? It is very possible to mix traditional
> >>swords-and-sorcery elements with futuristic elements and still be
> >>fantasy.
> >
> >someone flying a spaceship, fighting off bug eyed aliens with a
> >sword is more than a bit messed up... Though star wars DOES manage
> >to fit the sword (light sabers) in with the other stuff very very
> >nicely.
>
> (a magic sword) placed in a sci-fi context.
>
> >against very high tech, so it's silly to put them in the same game
> >together....
>
> traditional fantasy genres? That droid army from Phantom Menace would
> have crumbled under a Tiltowait spell. Darth Vader can be taken down to
> 1 hit point with a Mabadi spell. (Why am I remembering all these
> Wizardry I spells all of the sudden?) And the only difference between
> Armageddon and the Death Star is that Armageddon leaves the big dead
> rock hanging in space instead of vaporizing it.
did you not read the post? singing stated that low-tech weapons don´t
stand a chance against high-tech. and what is your reaction? you come
along with magic, which nobody talked about or referred to...
Litmus Dragon
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> Suggestions are welcommed!!
> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
> that can damage Mondain.
> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
I'm a purist, so I'll have to say that this is a bad idea. I would enjoy
the remake more if it were faithful to the original storyline.
> - The towns will be in 3D (see an early example of the style on the
> project page)
Will they still have the same layout?
> - The ability to bake bread ;)
Excellent.
> - The monsters you are sent to kill in the kings quests should not
> just be SOME monster. Instead of just saying : "go kill a rat" a
> king would say something like : "go kill the Giant rat which has
> been terrorizing the Dungeon of Mt. Drash on the Land of Lord B".
> In other words, there will be unique quest monsters and they will
> appear in only ONE dungeon which you must the find and explore.
> This is to avoid that the game only takes place in ONE dungeon (as
> it often does in the current version)
The one dungeon thing is no doubt a bug that they missed. Change that.
Still, me purist, change bad, would leave the rest alone ...
> - Dungeons may vary in size and difficulty. It's not certain that a
> dungeon has 10 levels and you cannot be sure that rats and thiefs
> are on level 1-2 etc etc... Some dungeons might have demons on
> level 1 and you would have to wait with the exploration of those.
> Again this is to spread the game out to more areas.
>
> - You can get small Subquests from people in the taverns. Reward
> might be experience, gold or even a unique item like a magical
> sword which cannot be optained elsewhere.
>
> - Some monsters might have parts you can sell or trade with in
> the towns. For example you might be able to sell a poison bag
> from a giant spider to the local alhemist on a town. Of course
> sometimes the poison bag is emptied or damaged during the battle so
> not all battles with spiders gives you a bag.
>
> - Monsters will be fewer and harder to kill in the dungeons. A kill
> will then be more rewarding than in the original.
>
> - Your characters level affects the power of the spells he throws
> along with his intelligence. Some spells might be restricted to
> higher levels.
>
> - The experience needed to raise a level should not be linear. Maybe
> we'll use the "classic" ultima system (200, 400, 800, etc...)
This would be changing the basic system of how level advancement, combat,
and spellcasting works. This would involve reworking the balance and
pacing of the game. This is risky stuff. Not that Ultima 1 was a paragon
of balance and pacing itself but least it was Ultima 1 ... sticking with my
same answer. I'm a purist, I would enjoy the remake more if this were kept
the same.
--
/_itmus /)ragon
-=UDIC=-
email: litmus...@mailcity.com
The Dragon Engine Homepage: http://www4.50megs.com/litmus/de.html
Vulcan Dragon
<Clau...@hotmail.com> revealed:
>did you not read the post? singing stated that low-tech weapons don´t
>stand a chance against high-tech. and what is your reaction? you come
>along with magic, which nobody talked about or referred to...
Of course I read the post, and I believe I responded correctly. The
context of the discussion is traditional fantasy elements versus
fantasy/sci-fi crossbreeds. His wording eliminated the possibility of
magic in a fantasy game, and I chose to reintroduce it because *all*
fantasy games have magic elements in them. (Well maybe not *all*, but
the vast majority.)
I referred to the context of the thread, not the literal text of the
post. And I will always do so if someone's wording places boundaries on
a subject that were not there initially. Anyone who has sparred with
F-15 has to learn that skill really fast.
Vulcan Dragon
<Clau...@hotmail.com> revealed:
>vulcan, you have lost your bet. i don´t think star wars is sci-fi.
Well good.
[snip]
>but as far as the ultima series is concerned, i am of the opinion that
>this mix does not really work. period.
Well, since one third of the main series has sci-fi elements (U1, U2,
and U7), this position is somewhat tenuous. (Granted that U7's sci-fi
element was just a nod to Wing Commander, but it is in there!)
J.P. Morris
>
> On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 13:28:35 +0200, a Vulcan mind-meld with "Mils"
> <mi...@club-internet.fr> revealed:
>
> >That's Enilno yes.
> >
> >(Why the heck Enilno is Online backwards ?)
>
> Because Sierra Online was the publisher.
They weren't called Sierra Online then, were they?
>
> ========================================================================
> Vulcan Dragon -=(UDIC)=- mcar...@columbus.rr.com
> Lord of the Chicken Wings
--
JP Morris - aka DOUG the Eagle (Dragon) -=UDIC=- DOU...@bigfoot.com
Fun things to do with the Ultima games (http://ithe.cjb.net)
Developing a U6/U7 clone (http://fly.to/ire)
d+++ e+ N+ T++ Om U1234!56!7'!S'!8!9!KA u++ uC+++ uF+++ uG---- uLB----
uA--- nC+ nR---- nH+++ nP++ nI nPT nS nT wM- wC- y a(YEAR - 1976)
WernerP
>
>As some of you regulars know I'm currently working on recreating
>Ultima1 in a totally new engine. Until now we have tried to create a
>copy as close to the original as possible but at the last team meeting
>
>we let our minds fly and discussed various changes/additions to the
>original game.
Snip
I just wanted to throw a thought into the whole design discussion.
There are legal problems since the Name Ultima is owned by EA and LB
is owned by Richard Garriot. Given EAs past you might end up in a big
legal mess. The best thing IMHO would be to alter and put all the
names in a separate textfile and let the users patch the names
themselves (or publish a separate patch on some underground pages).
Good luck for your project I'm looking forward to it.
Werner
Mike Stucke
>
> Vulcan Dragon wrote:
> > Because Sierra Online was the publisher.
>
> They weren't called Sierra Online then, were they?
Yup. I just checked the back of the Ultima 2 box.
--
Mike Stucke
Stoical Dragon
Paulon
> On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:11:42 +0200, a Vulcan mind-meld with Claus Dragon
> <Clau...@hotmail.com> revealed:
> [snip]
>
> >but as far as the ultima series is concerned, i am of the opinion that
> >this mix does not really work. period.
>
> Well, since one third of the main series has sci-fi elements (U1, U2,
> and U7), this position is somewhat tenuous. (Granted that U7's sci-fi
> element was just a nod to Wing Commander, but it is in there!)
What about U3? And there was a Kilrathi, and hence somewhat sci-fi
reference in UW2 as well.
Ricktaxx Mang
"Litmus Dragon" <litmus...@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:8F1983AC8...@207.126.101.100...
> > - The most important change! This I would REALLY like some oppinions
> > on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> > having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> > something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> > tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> > Suggestions are welcommed!!
> > The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
> > like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
> > that can damage Mondain.
> > Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
> > have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
>
> I'm a purist, so I'll have to say that this is a bad idea. I would enjoy
> the remake more if it were faithful to the original storyline.
I would have to agree. I know that I am a new voice around here, but I feel
you would be loosing part of the challenge of Ultima I by dropping the space
hunt all together. The game was advertised and "From dark dungeon to deep
space".
I might be the only one who ever look at the game this way but I feel you
where fighting and striving to defeat our nasty wizard well after he had
claimed the world. It could have taken place even hundreds of years after
U9. You go back in time, stop Mondain and start a new time line. So who is
to say that powerful weapons and spacecraft could not have been built....
If you remove too much it can not be called Ultima I, that much I think most
agree on. I would not mind a dungeon system that was a bit more random or at
least each dungeon having it's own personality as U4 up do.
Helgraf Dragon
>
> Vulcan Dragon, you shouldn't talk with your mouth full...
> >>against very high tech, so it's silly to put them in the same game
> >>together....
> >
> >Oh really? Have you seem some of the magic spells available in
> >traditional fantasy genres? That droid army from Phantom Menace would
> >have crumbled under a Tiltowait spell. Darth Vader can be taken down to
> >1 hit point with a Mabadi spell. (Why am I remembering all these
> >Wizardry I spells all of the sudden?) And the only difference between
> >Armageddon and the Death Star is that Armageddon leaves the big dead
> >rock hanging in space instead of vaporizing it.
>
> only the most powerful mages (and often not even them) have the
> power to do things like that, whereas anyone can get a gun and shoot
> someone....
Yes, but not _anyone_ can get a Death Star and vaporize a planet,
--
Helgraf Dragon, the NSA Dragon, Fossil, Mao Count : 5
A Chronicler of the Circle of Dragons, King of Sloth
__ The Exodus of the *Other Side*|Plonk Count: 5
/__\ d++ e++ N T-- Om+ U1!23!4!5!6!7'!S'!8!KA!L!
/|__|\ u+++ uC++ uF uG++ uLB+ uA++ nC+ nH+ nP+ nI+ nPT nS++ nT+
|----| y++ a25;a1600 When home is a torus, expect curves.
|_||_|
Helgraf Dragon
>
> As Vulcan Dragon speaks, the Universe trembles...
>
> > On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:11:42 +0200, a Vulcan mind-meld with Claus Dragon
> > <Clau...@hotmail.com> revealed:
>
> > [snip]
> >
> > >but as far as the ultima series is concerned, i am of the opinion that
> > >this mix does not really work. period.
> >
> > Well, since one third of the main series has sci-fi elements (U1, U2,
> > and U7), this position is somewhat tenuous. (Granted that U7's sci-fi
> > element was just a nod to Wing Commander, but it is in there!)
>
> What about U3? And there was a Kilrathi, and hence somewhat sci-fi
> reference in UW2 as well.
Yes, I was going to say, what about that big scifi Exodus
computer?
Helgraf Dragon
>Ultima1 in a totally new engine. Until now we have tried to create a
>copy as close to the original as possible but at the last team meeting
Would it be too much work to set up two "sets" if you will? One
with all the traditional objects (aircars, blasters, et al) for
the ultima purists, and one for the "fantasy" purists?
Admittedly, since the fantasy purists don't want to go into space,
this creates something of a problem for that side of the stack . .
.
Concussed
"Vulcan Dragon" <mcar...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:38fef21a....@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> On Sun, 16 Apr 2000 01:37:18 +0200, a Vulcan mind-meld with Claus Dragon
> <Clau...@hotmail.com> revealed:
>
> >no scfi elements in a fantasy game. that´s something which annoyed me
> >when playing wizardry 7. swords, phasers, firearms, grenades??
> >fantasy heroes, stick to swords and magic!
>
> is sci-fi, aren't you? It is very possible to mix traditional
> swords-and-sorcery elements with futuristic elements and still be
> fantasy.
impression that their sci fi/fantasy hybrid plots were somewhat inspired by
the the somewhat wacky themes of the early Ultimas.
Vulcan Dragon
<paul...@InVasAnSpam.ihug.co.nz> revealed:
>As Vulcan Dragon speaks, the Universe trembles...
>> Well, since one third of the main series has sci-fi elements (U1, U2,
>> and U7), this position is somewhat tenuous. (Granted that U7's sci-fi
>> element was just a nod to Wing Commander, but it is in there!)
>
>What about U3? And there was a Kilrathi, and hence somewhat sci-fi
>reference in UW2 as well.
Overlooked Exodus being a computer, and completely forgot about the
Kilrathi ref in UW2 (because I didn't get it when I played it,
probably).
Fortran Dragon
[Snip]
> - The most important change! This I would REALLY like some oppinions
> on : We are planning to cut out ALL space references! Instead of
> having to fight spaceships to be a space-ace you will have to do
> something else to make the princess help you. Maybe win a
> tournement, be master of quests, help an oracle or whatever.
> Suggestions are welcommed!!
> The best weapon will not be a phaser gun but something more fantasy
> like - like a special enchanted sword which might be the only thing
> that can damage Mondain.
> Instead of air-cars you'll be able to buy or tame a griffon which
> have the same moving abilities as the air-car.
Uggh. I dislike this intensely. One of the fun things about the
original Ultima is that it doesn't take itself so seriously. Having
everything including the kitchen sink is fun. :)
--
Fortran Dragon -==(UDIC)==-
Hidalgo Trading Company: <http://home.kc.rr.com/hidalgo/>
rgcu.* FAQ: <http://home.kc.rr.com/hidalgo/faq/rgcudfaq.html>