U9: DING DONG! DEL CASTILLO HAS FLED!

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Carlos DaSilva

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Jul 17, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/17/98
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It's official...

ED DEL CASTILLO has been DEL CANNED!

He was tossed from the project and Richard Garriott has taken command.

The news is at http://headline.gamespot.com/news/98_07/17_ascen/index.html

I might actually give Ultima IX a chance...

Break out the champagne!

There may yet be hope...

CJD

robb

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Jul 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/18/98
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about fucking time, garriott probably got up off his ass finally and played
a demo of the game, and realized that it was no longer ultima.

- robb

Carlos DaSilva wrote in message
<6op6lf$582$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...

Contrapuntal Dragon

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Jul 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/18/98
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In Chapter rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons on Sat, 18 Jul 1998 06:57:22
- -0400, "robb" <joyma...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net> scribed into the Great Tome
of Farnarkling thusly:

[slight reformatting]

> Carlos DaSilva wrote in message
> <6op6lf$582$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> >It's official...
> >
> >ED DEL CASTILLO has been DEL CANNED!
> >
> >He was tossed from the project and Richard Garriott has taken command.
> >
> >The news is at
http://headline.gamespot.com/news/98_07/17_ascen/index.html
> >
> >I might actually give Ultima IX a chance...
> >
> >Break out the champagne!
> >
> >There may yet be hope...
> >
> >CJD
> >
> >
>

> about fucking time, garriott probably got up off his ass finally and
played
> a demo of the game, and realized that it was no longer ultima.

<G> Too true. It must be said that DeCastillo was the worst possible
advertisement for Origin's Ultima team possible, especially given his
statements to folks like Sith Dragon, whose been slogging his guts out
getting info together for ages now (Sagacious passed it on about '95ish?)

IMO the clown oozed arrogance and contempt for the longtime fan base, and I
for one will not miss him. Seems his penchant for going against common
RPG-design sense and constructive criticism from the public finally turned
and bit him on the arse. Good.

Let's hope it's not too late after all..

> - robb

Contrapuntal.

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--
Contrapuntal Dragon (Michael Fleming) -=(UDIC)=- <<SDAAS>>
mfle...@powerup.com.au http://www.powerup.com.au/~mfleming/ultima/
AWE FAQ Maintainer, Official RGCUD Troll/Spam Nemesis and Greybeard.
"Anyway, this is just an offical 'I'm stupid' post." - Twilight Dragon

Christoph Nahr

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Jul 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/18/98
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On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:55:53 -0400, "Carlos DaSilva"
<cdas...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>It's official...
>
>ED DEL CASTILLO has been DEL CANNED!
>
>He was tossed from the project and Richard Garriott has taken command.

Who would have thought it? I wonder who was behind this?

Judging from the report he sure didn't leave on his own account: his
affiliation with Origin was "terminated immediately", and he refused
to comment...

Can Garriott actually fire an important member of the team without
EA's approval? Or was it an EA supervisor who came in and decided
that something had gone wrong, and put Garriott in place as the
temporary project leader?

Oh well, the press release next week will probably show us what will
happen to Ascension. Perhaps you should wait for a while with the
champaign, it might well be that EA has decided that the game was too
complex and too demanding!
--
Chris Nahr (cn...@hal.net, replace hal with ibm to reply by e-mail)
MM6 Quick Reference at http://home.t-online.de/home/Christoph.Nahr

joelm...@geocities.com

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Jul 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/18/98
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In article <6op6lf$582$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,

"Carlos DaSilva" <cdas...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> It's official...
>
> ED DEL CASTILLO has been DEL CANNED!
>
> He was tossed from the project and Richard Garriott has taken command.
>
> The news is at http://headline.gamespot.com/news/98_07/17_ascen/index.html
>
> I might actually give Ultima IX a chance...
>
> Break out the champagne!
>
> There may yet be hope...

This isn't necessarily a good thing. Remember that Garriott okayed all the
changes, its not like Castillo decided that he would just recreate Ultima
on his own, you know. And of course, Garriott was the one who made U8.

I don't think Castillo would have made the game I want, but I also don't
think that swapping this much staff around is good for the project in
general.

Joel Mathis

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

Ophidian Dragon

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Jul 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/18/98
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joelm...@geocities.com wrote in article
<6or0qm$v8v$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> In article <6op6lf$582$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,

> This isn't necessarily a good thing. Remember that Garriott okayed all
the
> changes, its not like Castillo decided that he would just recreate Ultima
> on his own, you know. And of course, Garriott was the one who made U8.

Garriott hasn't been seriously involved in Ultima since U7 (U6?), IIRC.

-Ophidian Dragon


Kangaeru Hito

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Jul 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/18/98
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Carlos DaSilva wrote in message
<6op6lf$582$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>It's official...
>
>ED DEL CASTILLO has been DEL CANNED!
>
>He was tossed from the project and Richard Garriott has taken command.
>
>The news is at http://headline.gamespot.com/news/98_07/17_ascen/index.html
>
>I might actually give Ultima IX a chance...
>
>Break out the champagne!
>
>There may yet be hope...
>
>CJD
>
>

I'm ecstatic! Castillo was too interested in making U9 a mainstream title
(sell a million copies at whatever cost). I just hope Garriot allows his
hands to get dirty with this one (unlike U8).

Juha Jantunen

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Jul 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/19/98
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cn...@hal.net (Christoph Nahr) writes:
> On Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:55:53 -0400, "Carlos DaSilva"
> <cdas...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Oh well, the press release next week will probably show us what will
> happen to Ascension. Perhaps you should wait for a while with the
> champaign, it might well be that EA has decided that the game was too
> complex and too demanding!

I think that the worst thing that could happen was that somebody would
consider any Ultima to be "too complex and too demanding"... I, having
played through most of the Ultimas, think that U7 part 2 was the best of
them, primarily because it was quite complex and occasionally demanding...
Which apparently upset a lot of people and resulted in the platformer
called U8... I hope that the next time Origin decides to release something
like that again, it won't be called Ultima... The Avatar is a hero of
virtues, philosophy... How can one make a game from someone like that so
that it's "simple"...?

It's been interesting to see his fall from grace, and that, if nothing else,
was continued in Ultima 8... Consider the state of things in Pagan... I hear
of the dead walking the streets, the weather isn't just bad, it's raining fire
and brimstone, and generally the people seem more likely to die than survive
all of it... And why was all that? The Avatar just wants to get home.

So much for the hero of the people... ;)

Just my thoughts, what do I know, I started Ultima IV again two nights
ago. ;)

Thine, "the new guy", Shifter Dragon,
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Juha Jantunen | ========================== Talgor - Janus - Shifter
Sädetie 2 | ===== Minna baka. =============== Shadowrun - Magic
45910 Voikkaa | ====================== Life - Universe - Everything
Finland | == Anime - Manga - MAY - Babylon 5 - Trek - Sandman
tal...@iki.fi | Jean-Michel Jarre - Bob Marley - Christopher Franke
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
\+358-40-566 6543/ \-UDIC-/ \http://iki.fi/talgor/me.html/
\--------------/ \----/ \--------------------------/

AcK!

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Jul 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/19/98
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Fri, 17 Jul 1998 23:55:53 -0400 was when "Carlos DaSilva"
<cdas...@earthlink.net> babbled:

>It's official...

Another huge thread is born!

>ED DEL CASTILLO has been DEL CANNED!
>
>He was tossed from the project and Richard Garriott has taken command.

fled, tossed, just semantics, eh? ;)

That link appears down. What happened? Some many dragons landed on the
headline server that it crashed?
If you can't get the news there, try the long story at
http://ultima.scorched.com/

>I might actually give Ultima IX a chance...

ditto

>Break out the champagne!
>There may yet be hope...

Will we get a party? Will Ultima be turned around?
If the game is released this year, probably not.

I suspect that most dragons, however, wouldn't mind waiting a bit to
get the game turned around.

Hmm... Origin's going to release more info on the game next week. Time
to watch the cheering and idle speculation...

BTW, that 'philosophical differences' crap looks like he got the boot.
<g>

TTYL

Do what you will with this tagline, just don't bother me about it!
EASYSIGN98....http://easysign98.home.ml.org
krup...@yahoospa.com
remove "spa" to email

Destrius

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Jul 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/19/98
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Christoph Nahr wrote:
-clip-

> Who would have thought it? I wonder who was behind this?
-clip-

Perhaps Moa's inbox floods worked after all.
I mean, nobody can take so much lousy spelling... :)

--
+------------------------------------+-------------------------+
| Destrius Dragon | |
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Sir Cabirus Dragon

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Jul 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/19/98
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Destrius schrieb in Nachricht <35B1A413...@the.sig.addy>...

>Christoph Nahr wrote:
>-clip-
>> Who would have thought it? I wonder who was behind this?
>-clip-
>
> Perhaps Moa's inbox floods worked after all.
> I mean, nobody can take so much lousy spelling... :)
>


Your German isn't better as Christophs's English I guess ;-)

Sir Cabirus Dragon
-=UDIC=-

KReverri

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Jul 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/19/98
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Hmmm after viewing the title and a few of the posts

Think about ED's Feelings when he sees these

Then savory it

Eric

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Jul 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/19/98
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I find it strange how people are overjoyed about Ed leaving (or being fired)
because what it boils down to is now OSI has yet another excuse to delay the
game. I downloaded the AVI of the gameplay and I thought the engine was
really hitching bad. I think the game's future is in serious trouble and
wouldn't be surprised to see a major overhaul of what they have done thus
far.

--
^ +~+~~
"Fair winds and following seas." ^ )`.).
)``)``) .~~
-Eric ).-'.-')|)
eli...@ix.netcom.com |-).-).-'_'-/
~~~\ `o-o-o' /~~~
~~~'---.____/~~

Kangaeru Hito wrote in message <6orl46$2...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>...


>
>Carlos DaSilva wrote in message
><6op6lf$582$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>>It's official...
>>

>>ED DEL CASTILLO has been DEL CANNED!
>>
>>He was tossed from the project and Richard Garriott has taken command.
>>

>>I might actually give Ultima IX a chance...
>>

>>Break out the champagne!
>>
>>There may yet be hope...
>>

Kenneth G. Cavness

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Jul 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/19/98
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KReverri <krev...@aol.com> foolishly gave up the right to remain silent in
message <199807191911...@ladder03.news.aol.com>:

> Hmmm after viewing the title and a few of the posts
>
> Think about ED's Feelings when he sees these

I doth cogitate mightily.

> Then savory it

*grin*

--
Kenneth G. Cavness
http://conan.proxicom.com/~kcavness

MdmeDis

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Jul 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/19/98
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In article <01bdb28e$2ea7f020$e9bedfcf@widdershins>,
dev...@ix.takethisout.netcom.com says...

> Garriott hasn't been seriously involved in Ultima since U7 (U6?), IIRC.

Well - looks like he's gonna be now! Wonder if he might speak to us
now?

--
Disoriented Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-

D'ya ever have those days when you think
maybe its you, and not the rest of the world
that's fucked up?

Ophidian Dragon

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Jul 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/19/98
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Kenneth G. Cavness <kcav...@proxicom.com> wrote in article
<MPG.101c18518...@news.erols.com>...


> KReverri <krev...@aol.com> foolishly gave up the right to remain silent
in
> message <199807191911...@ladder03.news.aol.com>:
> > Hmmm after viewing the title and a few of the posts
> >
> > Think about ED's Feelings when he sees these
>
> I doth cogitate mightily.

Well I do feel a bit guilty about saying mean stuff.

But I'm pretty much a cream puff :-)

-Ophidian Dragon

Eric

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Jul 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/19/98
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I disagree. I think Ed was let go because he mismanaged the project and was
probably asking for a lot more time (and money) for development (he did have
an excuse for asking this since U:A lost three developers recently...maybe
OSI placed the blame for this on Ed...OSI lost several good people and you
have to wonder where all of these "philosophical differences" are
originating from). I think EA is very tired of all the delays and bad press
this game has received, and to have their project manager come to them and
say "it'll ship when it is ready" when they were expecting an Xmas release
did not sit well at all. I also have to wonder if the rest of the
developers were preparing to leave, if they were not treated better. I must
retract my earlier statement that the game may go through yet another
overhaul. I downloaded the 40 meg avi of Lord British demoing the game and
I think this is the type of direction he has always wanted to go with the
series. Oh well, the soap opera continues...

--
^ +~+~~
"Fair winds and following seas." ^ )`.).
)``)``) .~~
-Eric ).-'.-')|)
eli...@ix.netcom.com |-).-).-'_'-/
~~~\ `o-o-o' /~~~
~~~'---.____/~~

joelm...@geocities.com wrote in message
<6ouae0$s2q$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <6otidf$2...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,


> "Eric" <eli...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> I find it strange how people are overjoyed about Ed leaving (or being
fired)
>> because what it boils down to is now OSI has yet another excuse to delay
the
>> game. I downloaded the AVI of the gameplay and I thought the engine was
>> really hitching bad. I think the game's future is in serious trouble and
>> wouldn't be surprised to see a major overhaul of what they have done thus
>> far.
>

>Yep, ironically banishing the Dark Lord of Mainstreamization may kill U9.
>I have to wonder, though, if the firing had something to do with the
>initial stirring up of the fans through his comments.

joelm...@geocities.com

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
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Destrius

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
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Sir Cabirus Dragon wrote:
-clip-

> Your German isn't better as Christophs's English I guess ;-)
-clip-

Errr.... *scratches head*
I don't get you. I don't know a single word of German, btw... :)

James Dowd

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
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Eric wrote in message <6ougt6$t...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>...

>I disagree. I think Ed was let go because he mismanaged the project
and was
>probably asking for a lot more time (and money) for development (he did
have
>an excuse for asking this since U:A lost three developers
recently...maybe
>OSI placed the blame for this on Ed...OSI lost several good people and
you


I disagree with you. (now this is confusing) I'd say that Castillo's
comments, especially "it's not about baking bread," did him in. From
what I've read of interviews, RG has consistently insisted it WAS about
baking bread. I mean, the whole engine of U5 was based on using every
little thing in the world, like the harpsichord. I have a feeling - no,
I hope - that RG is realizing that much of what we've been saying since
U9 started its course towards ruin is true.

Talraen "Wishful Thinking" Dragon

Wayfarer

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
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MdmeDis wrote:
>
> In article <01bdb28e$2ea7f020$e9bedfcf@widdershins>,
> dev...@ix.takethisout.netcom.com says...
>
> > Garriott hasn't been seriously involved in Ultima since U7 (U6?), IIRC.
>
> Well - looks like he's gonna be now! Wonder if he might speak to us
> now?
>
If so, I hope he does it before looking through DejaNews... The posts here
and elsewhere haven't been at all that supportive of him. ;)

I'm not even going to start on that Cindy Yans thing again... :P

|
\ / Supernova Dragon -==<UDIC>==- d++e+N+T--Om++U1!2!3!4!5!6!7'!S'!8!A!L!
- * - a.k.a. Telerandil the Wayfarer u+++uC++uF+++uG++++uLB+uA++nC++nR-nHnPn
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|

joelm...@geocities.com

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
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In article <EwE6x...@news2.new-york.net>,
"James Dowd" <jd...@unix.asb.com> wrote:

> I disagree with you. (now this is confusing) I'd say that Castillo's
> comments, especially "it's not about baking bread," did him in. From
> what I've read of interviews, RG has consistently insisted it WAS about
> baking bread. I mean, the whole engine of U5 was based on using every
> little thing in the world, like the harpsichord. I have a feeling - no,
> I hope - that RG is realizing that much of what we've been saying since
> U9 started its course towards ruin is true.

I don't know about Garriott's emphasis, but if you look back over the
statements made Castillo started with comments that stirred up a real
frenzy and then later (look at the E3 reports) Origin seemed to be
trying to contain the fire that had broken out. Now, if the major part
of Castillo's job was promoting the game, then I can see Origin dropping
him for that. And even if it wasn't the sole reason, I do think that the
problems that errupted were brought up at some point.

AcK!

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
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18 Jul 1998 20:58:23 GMT was when "Ophidian Dragon"
<dev...@ix.takethisout.netcom.com> babbled:

>> This isn't necessarily a good thing. Remember that Garriott okayed all
>the
>> changes, its not like Castillo decided that he would just recreate Ultima
>> on his own, you know. And of course, Garriott was the one who made U8.
>

>Garriott hasn't been seriously involved in Ultima since U7 (U6?), IIRC.

I hate to read PC Lamer as it groups Ascension with a bunch of other
games under the collective name 'Tomb Raider look-alikes\clones.' The
worst part is of that, is that there's (some) truth to that...

boo...@origin.ea.com

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
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On 19 Jul 1998 19:11:18 GMT, krev...@aol.com (KReverri) wrote:

>Hmmm after viewing the title and a few of the posts
>
>Think about ED's Feelings when he sees these
>

>Then savory it

man.. you guys are cold ;)

Boomer

Ophidian Dragon

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
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boo...@origin.ea.com wrote in article
<35b3b1b1....@newshost.ea.com>...

Well, I feel kinda sorry for him.
Of course, I felt kinda sorry for the Emporer in Star Wars.
I'm just a marshmellow.

-Ophidian Dragon


Mark Asher

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
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On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:43:59 GMT, joelm...@geocities.com wrote:

>I don't know about Garriott's emphasis, but if you look back over the
>statements made Castillo started with comments that stirred up a real
>frenzy and then later (look at the E3 reports) Origin seemed to be
>trying to contain the fire that had broken out. Now, if the major part
>of Castillo's job was promoting the game, then I can see Origin dropping
>him for that. And even if it wasn't the sole reason, I do think that the
>problems that errupted were brought up at some point.

You can kind of sum up Del Castillo's remarks as "Most of those things
the Ultima Dragons liked I think are dumb!" <g>

I would like to know what caused the reputed blow-up between Castillo
and Garriott. I have to think that dropping the party, the focus on
graphics at the expense of interaction, etc., were all approved by
Garriott. What was it that Castillo pushed for or did that caused him
to be sacked?

Mark Asher

Matthew T. Linehan

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
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On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 12:05:55 GMT, "James Dowd" <jd...@unix.asb.com>

wrote:
>I disagree with you. (now this is confusing) I'd say that Castillo's
>comments, especially "it's not about baking bread," did him in. From
>what I've read of interviews, RG has consistently insisted it WAS about
>baking bread. I mean, the whole engine of U5 was based on using every
>little thing in the world, like the harpsichord. I have a feeling - no,
>I hope - that RG is realizing that much of what we've been saying since
>U9 started its course towards ruin is true.
>
>Talraen "Wishful Thinking" Dragon

Well, on the baking bread thing. One UO was in beta, didn't RG spend a
lot of time hyping how the UO world would allow players to do things
like bake bread? I remember that bread baking was one of his favorite
examples of how open life in UO was. If my memory is correct, expect
baking bread to be in the final U:A product! :-)

From the video, we know that the street lights are interactive (can be
turned on and off by the player). Personally I think the RG will make
sure that the world if highly interactive. The first person view has
nothing to do with the interactivity of the world.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I have Faith in RG. He is
going to make an awesome game. It won't ship until it's ready, as long
as he does not get over ruled by EA.

Selling out to EA was probably a big mistake. On one hand OSI gained
access to the incredible resources of EA, but on the other hand, look
how much control he lost in the bargain. Of course will never know the
truth, but I sometimes wonder if RG ever regrets the decision at
night.

- -
|ZZzz +------------------------------------------------+
|Zzz | |Zzz | Quantum Void Dragon -=(UDIC)=- |
/_\ /\ | /\ /_\ | http://quantum.detour.net |
|*|_||/_\||_|*| | Signature Version 1.2 |
|.....|*|.....| |Error: EARTH.INI is corrupt, reboot planet(Y/N)?|
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William Harris

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
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In article <35b3c2ef....@gatekeeper.impacttech.com>, ma...@cdmnet.com
says...

>I would like to know what caused the reputed blow-up between Castillo
>and Garriott. I have to think that dropping the party, the focus on
>graphics at the expense of interaction, etc., were all approved by
>Garriott. What was it that Castillo pushed for or did that caused him
>to be sacked?

O to be the fly on the wall. :-)

But I agree. With the way so many things in Ascension have gone, why -now-?
Developer revolt ("we're all quitting") might be one thing. One would hope
that RG was already aware of how they were walking the tightrope on fan
support and on the aspects of the game that were of concern to fans of the
series.

Ed's departure -really- leaves Ascension in a swamp. Just when some
fans were beginning to accept the game for what it was going to be; maybe not
another U7, not a U8, but something unique for itself.
--
William Harris
http://home.earthlink.net/~williamharri


Wilhelm Elmore

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
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Of course we're cold Boomer. It's been a long four years.


boo...@origin.ea.com wrote in message >man.. you guys are cold ;)
>
>Boomer

Cayuga Dragon

Eric

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Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
to
I doubt he regrets his decision. OSI was totally broke the year EA bought
them. Sure, they had a great reputation, but they also had severly
overspent on Ultima 7, Wing Commander, etc.. Dr. Cat said it was a miracle
that EA stepped in when it did. Now look what OSI has become since the
takeover...they have been producing fewer titles, their staff has become
bloated, they delay products by years with impunity. Sounds like a dream
job for Richard...go to the trade shows and have no deliverables.

--
^ +~+~~
"Fair winds and following seas." ^ )`.).
)``)``) .~~
-Eric ).-'.-')|)
eli...@ix.netcom.com |-).-).-'_'-/
~~~\ `o-o-o' /~~~
~~~'---.____/~~

Matthew T. Linehan wrote in message <35b6c204.102351718@news-server>...

Eric

unread,
Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
to
Once again, I think it is because he could not keep his development team
together. I don't think OSI is as concerned with what the press/public
thinks after they see an early alpha build...they have come under criticism
before...and usually emerge on top. But when fairly long term employees
start leaving your company you have to question why. And if you are
concerned about keeping the rest of the team together you had better answer
that question real quick.

--
^ +~+~~
"Fair winds and following seas." ^ )`.).
)``)``) .~~
-Eric ).-'.-')|)
eli...@ix.netcom.com |-).-).-'_'-/
~~~\ `o-o-o' /~~~
~~~'---.____/~~

Mark Asher wrote in message
<35b3c2ef....@gatekeeper.impacttech.com>...


>On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 14:43:59 GMT, joelm...@geocities.com wrote:
>
>>I don't know about Garriott's emphasis, but if you look back over the
>>statements made Castillo started with comments that stirred up a real
>>frenzy and then later (look at the E3 reports) Origin seemed to be
>>trying to contain the fire that had broken out. Now, if the major part
>>of Castillo's job was promoting the game, then I can see Origin dropping
>>him for that. And even if it wasn't the sole reason, I do think that the
>>problems that errupted were brought up at some point.
>
>You can kind of sum up Del Castillo's remarks as "Most of those things
>the Ultima Dragons liked I think are dumb!" <g>
>

>I would like to know what caused the reputed blow-up between Castillo
>and Garriott. I have to think that dropping the party, the focus on
>graphics at the expense of interaction, etc., were all approved by
>Garriott. What was it that Castillo pushed for or did that caused him
>to be sacked?
>

>Mark Asher
>
>
>
>

Humbreto

unread,
Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
to
Matthew T. Linehan wrote:

<snip>

> From the video, we know that the street lights are interactive (can be
> turned on and off by the player). Personally I think the RG will make
> sure that the world if highly interactive. The first person view has
> nothing to do with the interactivity of the world.

<snip>

The first person/3D close-up view makes it so that you cant easily show
interactivity with objects in the world. In U7, for example, the view
was from far enough away and the resolution was low enough that the
character could move a few pixil-arms over an object and create the
illusion that he/she was "using" the item. But with the U9 engine, with
the greatly detailed characters and rotateable view, it will be
extremely hard to realisticly show interaction with the world, such as
walking up to a wall and throwing a switch, or turning on a lamp.

Mary Jo DiBella

unread,
Jul 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/20/98
to
While clearly I have no way of knowing this is what happened here...boy,
it looks a lot like a pattern I've seen repeated so many times in
different sorts of development endeavors: the project is put into the
hands of a manager that nobody can stand working for...all the best
creative people bail out because the guy is such a jerk...finally,
senior management figures out what's happening and they fire him...

But it's too late because all the best people are gone and the project
has nobody left to work on it.

How sad...

Rest In Peace, Ultima.

MJ

William Wueppelmann

unread,
Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to
In article <MPG.101c41689...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, MdmeDis wrote:
> In article <01bdb28e$2ea7f020$e9bedfcf@widdershins>,
> dev...@ix.takethisout.netcom.com says...
>
> > Garriott hasn't been seriously involved in Ultima since U7 (U6?), IIRC.
>
> Well - looks like he's gonna be now! Wonder if he might speak to us
> now?

``Why can't you people just shut up and smile and buy my game?!?''

I won't say this shatters my faith in the game (what faith)? But if
this development results in having to make a choice between another
lengthy delay and rushing the product out with serious flaws, I'd like
to remind the people at Origin that they may still have the Original
Ultima IX lying around somewhere. Maybe it's time to finish that one
and have it done with?

--
The Silly Dragon | It is pitch black. You are likely to receive spam
-=(UDIC)=- | from a grue.

joelm...@geocities.com

unread,
Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to
In article <35b6c204.102351718@news-server>,

mlin...@nospam.columbus.rr.com (Matthew T. Linehan) wrote:

> From the video, we know that the street lights are interactive (can be
> turned on and off by the player). Personally I think the RG will make
> sure that the world if highly interactive. The first person view has
> nothing to do with the interactivity of the world.

Castillo said that much of the interactivity had been removied due to
the use of the 3D engine.

Jena

unread,
Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to
On Mon, 20 Jul 1998 17:15:13 GMT, Mary Jo DiBella
<md...@roch875.mc.xerox.com> wrote:

>While clearly I have no way of knowing this is what happened here...boy,
>it looks a lot like a pattern I've seen repeated so many times in
>different sorts of development endeavors: the project is put into the
>hands of a manager that nobody can stand working for...all the best
>creative people bail out because the guy is such a jerk...finally,
>senior management figures out what's happening and they fire him...
>
>But it's too late because all the best people are gone and the project
>has nobody left to work on it.
>

This isn't that bad, it gives new talent the chance to show off their
ideas....it could be bad though....

Castellan

unread,
Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to
ma...@cdmnet.com (Mark Asher) writes:


>I would like to know what caused the reputed blow-up between Castillo
>and Garriott. I have to think that dropping the party, the focus on
>graphics at the expense of interaction, etc., were all approved by
>Garriott. What was it that Castillo pushed for or did that caused him
>to be sacked?

He probably made Lord British killable, or had him killed as a
plot device. :)


--- ---
Douglas L. Erickson - ECN Computer Publications and Training Specialist
mail to: dou...@mailhost.ecn.ou.edu --- http://www.ecn.ou.edu/~douglas
SegaNet: http://www.seganet.com/ for Sega-related info ICQ#: 12822495
--- ECN does not, in any way, sponsor or endorse my rabid opinions. ---

Matthew T. Linehan

unread,
Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to
On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:02:10 GMT, joelm...@geocities.com wrote:
>Castillo said that much of the interactivity had been removied due to
>the use of the 3D engine.
>
>Joel Mathis


First, I don't see a good reason why a polygon engine would have to be
"less interactive". Sounds like a cop out to me. Anyways Castillo is
now gone, so anything he said is now suspect! If he was flying the
straight and narrow, management would not have removed him, so
therefore even if he WAS correct in his statements, the system will
soon be revised to render him wrong.

Carlos DaSilva

unread,
Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to
Castellan wrote in message <6p31mf$48t$1...@artemis.backbone.ou.edu>...

>ma...@cdmnet.com (Mark Asher) writes:
>
>
>>I would like to know what caused the reputed blow-up between Castillo
>>and Garriott. I have to think that dropping the party, the focus on
>>graphics at the expense of interaction, etc., were all approved by
>>Garriott. What was it that Castillo pushed for or did that caused him
>>to be sacked?
>
> He probably made Lord British killable, or had him killed as a
>plot device. :)


"Plot? Plot. What an interesting word that is. Plot. Plotplotplotplotplot.
What is it?"
- Most Recently Del Castillo, originally a Hollywood Exec on The Critic

CJD

Robert Perrett

unread,
Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to

Carlos DaSilva wrote:

It's official...

ED DEL CASTILLO has been DEL CANNED!

He was tossed from the project and Richard Garriott has taken command.

The news is at http://headline.gamespot.com/news/98_07/17_ascen/index.html

I might actually give Ultima IX a chance...

Break out the champagne!

There may yet be hope...
 

 

Oh Great, this sounds like a Soap Opera. Oh golly, I am probaly the stuip newbie that is why Ultima 9 is being desinger for us newbies, maçios. I never tried an Utilma game. Most people dislike RPG because they act as if you need a degree to play one. Thanks goodnes for Sir-tech. They think about everybody in mind. They FAQ's are funny, too.

Break out the champagne. It sounds like you want to have a party. I am SHOCK by this. Amazing.
 

Filarion Dragon

unread,
Jul 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/21/98
to
A distant thunder told me that Robert Perrett <tip9...@pacbell.net>
roaming the skies on Tue, 21 Jul 1998 15:57:35 -0700 ,screamed out::

>
>--------------EC24F7E767D20D1CE4E9FF4A
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
>
>

>
>Break out the champagne. It sounds like you want to have a party. I am SHOCK
>by this. Amazing.
>

A gaming magazine I read (PC-Player for german Drags) just stated that
U:A will be released the first quarter of ´99 ..dunno if they´re right
there....


Filarion Dragon -==(UDIC)==-
***The other Co-Founder of the CinnaGuard***

aka Fractal unLtd. ho3...@hof.baynet.de
U C :d++ e- N+ T+ Om+ U1234!5!6!7´!S´!8!KA!L u++ uC++ uF-
D O :uG+ uLB- uA+ nC++ nH+ nP+ nI++ nPT nS+++ nT-- wM++
I D :wC++ wS wI- wN+ o- z+ a19
C E /UIN:12658441

"And I will send the demons-You´ll run but you cannot hide-
And I will send all my minions-To haunt you..."by Lake of Tears

Wyatt R Johnson

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
In article <6p31mf$48t$1...@artemis.backbone.ou.edu>,

Castellan <douglasBE...@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu> wrote:
>ma...@cdmnet.com (Mark Asher) writes:
>
>
>>I would like to know what caused the reputed blow-up between Castillo
>>and Garriott. I have to think that dropping the party, the focus on
>>graphics at the expense of interaction, etc., were all approved by
>>Garriott. What was it that Castillo pushed for or did that caused him
>>to be sacked?
>
> He probably made Lord British killable, or had him killed as a
>plot device. :)
>
...using LB's own fork

Wyatt

Jeff Howell

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:07:52 -0500, gwn(^)@gameworlds.com (GWN) wrote:

>In article <6p3jnp$q...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, wjoh...@shay.ecn.purdue.edu
>says...


>> > He probably made Lord British killable, or had him killed as a
>> >plot device. :)
>> >
>> ...using LB's own fork
>>
>> Wyatt
>

>Good Lord, someone actually remembers the fork!
>

Ah, the immortal 'fork' thread.. I remember that fondly..
Say, Tina, it's nice to know you still wander through the ng once in a
while.. whatever happened to ya, anyways? :P


--
Ash Dragon An oldtimer from the 'agud'
-=(UDIC)=- days and relic of a forgotten
time.

Eric

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
That would add another two years to the development time.

--
^ +~+~~
"Fair winds and following seas." ^ )`.).
)``)``) .~~
-Eric ).-'.-')|)
eli...@ix.netcom.com |-).-).-'_'-/
~~~\ `o-o-o' /~~~
~~~'---.____/~~

William Wueppelmann wrote in message ...

JP Morris

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
Jeff Howell wrote:
>
> On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:07:52 -0500, gwn(^)@gameworlds.com (GWN) wrote:
> >Good Lord, someone actually remembers the fork!
> >
>
> Ah, the immortal 'fork' thread.. I remember that fondly..
> Say, Tina, it's nice to know you still wander through the ng once in a
> while.. whatever happened to ya, anyways? :P

The Fork is a myth! It's actually the mug of ale that you mustn't
touch..

Dave Litchman

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
In article <35B5ECB7...@calderauk.com>, jmo...@calderauk.com says...

>
>Jeff Howell wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:07:52 -0500, gwn(^)@gameworlds.com (GWN) wrote:
>> >Good Lord, someone actually remembers the fork!
>> >
>>
>> Ah, the immortal 'fork' thread.. I remember that fondly..
>> Say, Tina, it's nice to know you still wander through the ng once in a
>> while.. whatever happened to ya, anyways? :P
>
>The Fork is a myth! It's actually the mug of ale that you mustn't
>touch..

If you've come for the fork, you'll be sorely disappointed...

(Sorry, a little off topic, even for this thread.)

--
Dave Litchman
da...@discovernet.net
---------------------------------------------------------------------
SF2 Code v1.0: t- c+ T r-(++) f g++ m+ s -> + v+(++) M+ n+: o+
---------------------------------------------------------------------


^ GWN

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to
In article <35b5cdc...@news.pce.net>, jho...@pce.net says...

> Ah, the immortal 'fork' thread.. I remember that fondly..
> Say, Tina, it's nice to know you still wander through the ng once in a
> while.. whatever happened to ya, anyways? :P

You mean the immortal fork *years*, dontcha? :) Those were fun times
indeed.

I've always been around. As you can see by my .sig file, I run the Game
Worlds Network, which is coming along quite nicely. We're about to
launch a kid's section that will cover all children's titles, both fun
and educational. Been pretty swamped with that sort of thing. Drop me a
line anytime, I'm always here.

--
Tina Haumersen
Editor/Publisher
Game Worlds Network
http://gameworlds.com
(remove (^) to reply)

Panu Aaltio

unread,
Jul 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/22/98
to

Humbreto wrote in message <35B409...@geocities.com>...

>the greatly detailed characters and rotateable view, it will be
>extremely hard to realisticly show interaction with the world, such as
>walking up to a wall and throwing a switch, or turning on a lamp.

Yes it will, but that gladly doesn't seem to be a problem for the design
team, not yet anyway. Garriott was happy to demonstrate the Avatar using
levers etc. in the Gamestar movie, even though there was no animation, which
is of course just like in U7. I don't think they'll go the "if you can't do
it perfectly, don't do it" way here, luckily.

--
Panu Aaltio, paaltio <at> mikrobitti.fi
Grotto Dragon -==(UDIC)==-

Lord Kinbote

unread,
Jul 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/23/98
to

Dave Litchman wrote in message <6p4ssa$1gp$1...@206.165.146.114>...

>If you've come for the fork, you'll be sorely disappointed...
>
>(Sorry, a little off topic, even for this thread.)
>


Wasn't Bioforge a "Lord British Production?"

Kinbote

Desslock

unread,
Jul 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/23/98
to
Matthew T. Linehan wrote:
>
> On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 12:02:10 GMT, joelm...@geocities.com wrote:
> >Castillo said that much of the interactivity had been removied due to
> >the use of the 3D engine.
> >
> >Joel Mathis
>
> First, I don't see a good reason why a polygon engine would have to be
> "less interactive". Sounds like a cop out to me. Anyways Castillo is
> now gone, so anything he said is now suspect! If he was flying the
> straight and narrow, management would not have removed him, so
> therefore even if he WAS correct in his statements, the system will
> soon be revised to render him wrong.

And the engine was always the same one that was demonstrated before.
Interactivity was, at least for a time during production, not emphasized
because it may have been considered relatively unimportant by some
members of the development team, like Del Castillo. I strongly suspect
the final version of Ultima: Ascension will have a considerable amount
of interactivity.

Desslock

--
Desslock's RPG News: http://www.gamepen.com/rpg/
Desslock's Domain at Gamespot:
http://www.gamespot.com/misc/columns/desslock_980417.html

Desslock's Guide to RPGs - http://www.gamepen.com/desslock/ For detailed
interviews/previews relating to Asheron's Call, Baldur's Gate,
EverQuest, Might and Magic VI, Wizardry 8 and more...

Chris McCubbin

unread,
Jul 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/24/98
to

No, Bioforge was created by a team called Brute Force, produced by Eric
Hyman. It was that team's only major release - Hyman left Origin about a
year later.
--
____________________________________________
A writer wants to affect his reader. He'd prefer that effect not be
expressed in the form of death threats, but beggars can't be choosers. -
Jose Chung
Chris W. McCubbin, Writer
"A very sick man indeed" - Mondo 2000

Lord Kinbote wrote in message <6p6ee4$cp7$2...@supernews.com>...

Ophidian Dragon

unread,
Jul 24, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/24/98
to

Chris McCubbin <cmcc...@incanmonkey.com> wrote in article
<6pa7vd$opv$1...@hiram.io.com>...


>
> No, Bioforge was created by a team called Brute Force, produced by Eric
> Hyman. It was that team's only major release - Hyman left Origin about a
> year later.

Did they break Hyman..........'s spirit?

Oh man, that's another pretty bad name.

-Ophidian Dragon

omega_1

unread,
Jul 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/25/98
to

Carlos DaSilva <cdas...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
6p355u$6iq$1...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net...

>Castellan wrote in message <6p31mf$48t$1...@artemis.backbone.ou.edu>...
>>ma...@cdmnet.com (Mark Asher) writes:
>>
>>
>>>I would like to know what caused the reputed blow-up between Castillo
>>>and Garriott. I have to think that dropping the party, the focus on
>>>graphics at the expense of interaction, etc., were all approved by
>>>Garriott. What was it that Castillo pushed for or did that caused him
>>>to be sacked?
>>
>> He probably made Lord British killable, or had him killed as a
>>plot device. :)
>
>
>"Plot? Plot. What an interesting word that is. Plot. Plotplotplotplotplot.
>What is it?"
>- Most Recently Del Castillo, originally a Hollywood Exec on The Critic
>
>CJD
>


Its something the U9 don't have.

Fortran Dragon

unread,
Jul 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/26/98
to
In article <35b7129b.73346296@news-server>, mlin...@nospam.columbus.rr.com
says...
[Snip]

> First, I don't see a good reason why a polygon engine would have to be
> "less interactive". Sounds like a cop out to me. Anyways Castillo is
> now gone, so anything he said is now suspect! If he was flying the
> straight and narrow, management would not have removed him, so
> therefore even if he WAS correct in his statements, the system will
> soon be revised to render him wrong.

If U9 is going to be out for Christmas there simply isn't time to
revise anything. The U9 team would be working their asses off to make sure
they could ship a product that was stable with the features currently
present.

Adding features would delay U9 past the XMAS sales season.

--

Fortran Dragon -==(UDIC)==- | "There isn't enough darkness in the world
-=={MDLAM}==- | to quench the light of one small candle."
Hidalgo Trading Company: http://home.earthlink.net/~fortran/index.html

Fortran Dragon

unread,
Jul 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/26/98
to
In article <35b6c204.102351718@news-server>, mlin...@nospam.columbus.rr.com
says...
[Snip]

> Selling out to EA was probably a big mistake. On one hand OSI gained
> access to the incredible resources of EA, but on the other hand, look
> how much control he lost in the bargain. Of course will never know the
> truth, but I sometimes wonder if RG ever regrets the decision at
> night.

If Origin hadn't you wouldn't see Origin around today. Origin was
constantly skirting on the edge of bankruptcy since at least the days of
Ultima VI.

Fortran Dragon

unread,
Jul 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/26/98
to
In article <199807191911...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
krev...@aol.com says...
> Hmmm after viewing the title and a few of the posts
>
> Think about ED's Feelings when he sees these
>
> Then savory it

I don't know how savory Del Castillo is (my guess is: not very), but I
will savor his moving on.

Perhaps this means that U9 will focus more on its CRPG roots, but I
doubt it.

Fortran Dragon

unread,
Jul 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/26/98
to
In article <35b3b1b1....@newshost.ea.com>, boo...@origin.ea.com
says...
[Snip]
> man.. you guys are cold ;)

Last time you were bitching that we were too hot... :)

Matthew T. Linehan

unread,
Jul 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/27/98
to
On Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:43:04 -0500, for...@earthlink.net (Fortran
Dragon) wrote:

> Adding features would delay U9 past the XMAS sales season.

yea, and that surprises ya. There is no way were going to see U:A in
98.

Christopher Van Allen

unread,
Jul 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/27/98
to
There's a reason that U:A was given the distinction of being Vaporware
3 years ago. Until I actually see it on the Shelf, it's Vaporware,
never to actually be available to the public.

Dave Litchman

unread,
Jul 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/27/98
to
In article <35c8f0a5.523392234@news-server>, mlin...@nospam.columbus.rr.com
says...

>
>On Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:43:04 -0500, for...@earthlink.net (Fortran
>Dragon) wrote:
>
>> Adding features would delay U9 past the XMAS sales season.
>
>yea, and that surprises ya. There is no way were going to see U:A in
>98.

Methinks you underestimate the lenths that EA will go to for a big name holiday
release. Do the words "not beta-tested" mean anything to you?

Fortran Dragon

unread,
Jul 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/27/98
to
My glass typewriter shows Matthew T. Linehan saying...
[Snip]

> yea, and that surprises ya. There is no way were going to see U:A in
> 98.

It doesn't surprise me. I'm a programmer you see. ;)

Jon...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Jul 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/27/98
to
In article <MPG.102647f7d...@news.alt.net>,

for...@earthlink.net (Fortran Dragon) wrote:
> My glass typewriter shows Matthew T. Linehan saying...
> [Snip]
> > yea, and that surprises ya. There is no way were going to see U:A in
> > 98.
>
> It doesn't surprise me. I'm a programmer you see. ;)


There isn't a lot of information available either publicly or privately about
the timing of U:A, but based on what I've heard, I'd guess that the game
*could* be finished this year if Origin puts the hammer down, and if they
don't make any substantial changes to what's already in progress.

If this guess/analysis is accurate, the big question is whether they will
decide to do that or re-set their schedule for some time next year. Based on
little more than gut feel, my guess is next year, March or later.

Jonric

The Vault Network
http://www.vaultnetwork.com
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Fortran Dragon

unread,
Jul 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/27/98
to
My glass typewriter shows Jon...@my-dejanews.com saying...
[Snip]

> If this guess/analysis is accurate, the big question is whether they will
> decide to do that or re-set their schedule for some time next year. Based on
> little more than gut feel, my guess is next year, March or later.

What else does Origin have lined up for this Xmas season?

My gut guess is that Origin will continue to cut features until they
have something shippable for the xmas buying season. They'd miss too many
potential purchasers otherwise.


<Obscure radio reference>

Then again, I could be wrong. They call me Mel.

</Obscure radio reference>

Matthew T. Linehan

unread,
Jul 27, 1998, 3:00:00 AM7/27/98
to
On Mon, 27