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Fortran Dragon

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Nov 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/29/98
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From the Void comes Spock bearing this piece of Light...
> I've received my confirmation letter from Bababooey Dragon. I'm officially
> a Wyrm!

Congratulations. ;)

> Cape Dweller Dragon cleans the shell off his scales, blinking to adjust his
> eyes to his new vision.
>
> "Hmm. I heard that a new Dragon should expect to be covered with pies by
> now. I wonder where everyone is?"
>
> CD looks around, and notices a large, mean looking Dragon coming towards
> him.
>
> "Hey, I recognize you! You're the legendary Fortran Dragon! It's so nice
> to see you, I was beginning to think I was forgotten!"
>
> CD does not notice the evil gleam in Fortran's eyes.
>
> "Where are your pies? I'm all ready to be splutted, but I... brrblbl..."
>
> Fortran stands over the lifeless body of Cape Dweller. "That was easy. New
> Dragons don't stand a chance. Who's next?"

<sigh> And the Pkillers told me this would be fun. About as fun
as taking a 'bon from a baby.

Oh well, eleven little dragons...

--

Fortran Dragon -==(UDIC)==- | "There isn't enough darkness in the world
-=[MT]=- | to quench the light of one small candle."
Hidalgo Trading Company: <http://home.earthlink.net/~fortran/index.html>
rgcud FAQ: <http://home.earthlink.net/~fortran/faq/rgcudfaq.html>

psz

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Nov 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/30/98
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<SNIP>


Hmmm.... I was all ready to greet CD, but I don't see him...


<shrug>


--
--------------------------------------
Darkling Dragon --==(UDIC)==-- --==(unSPLUT)==--
Phillip Zibilich \/
ps...@gnofn.org ps...@bellsouth.net
Plingiest Dragon and 6-2 on Othello on Weyrmount 2
* Holder of one (1) Money Dragon Flame Point *
"Time is a play thing. But when
it breaks, you're fucked." -- psz
--------------------------------------

Paul Ryan

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Nov 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/30/98
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The Earth Trembles, as the Words of Spock Arise from the Depths...

> I've received my confirmation letter from Bababooey Dragon. I'm officially
> a Wyrm!
>
>

> Cape Dweller Dragon cleans the shell off his scales, blinking to adjust his
> eyes to his new vision.
>
> "Hmm. I heard that a new Dragon should expect to be covered with pies by
> now. I wonder where everyone is?"
>
> CD looks around, and notices a large, mean looking Dragon coming towards
> him.
>
> "Hey, I recognize you! You're the legendary Fortran Dragon! It's so nice
> to see you, I was beginning to think I was forgotten!"
>
> CD does not notice the evil gleam in Fortran's eyes.
>
> "Where are your pies? I'm all ready to be splutted, but I... brrblbl..."
>
> Fortran stands over the lifeless body of Cape Dweller. "That was easy. New
> Dragons don't stand a chance. Who's next?"
>
>

> Cape Dweller Dragon -==(UDIC)==-

After a while Fortran leaves, and Paulon sneaks up, looking at the sad
remains of Cape Dweller. Then he looks closer. "A crash test dummy with
scales and wings glued on? Tacky indeed. So where is the real Cape
Dweller?" Paulon pauses in thought a moment. "No matter. A little spell
should get him wherever he's hiding."
Throwing a three pies up into the air, Paulon freezes them in place with
a glance. Then he recites a little rhyme...

<Warning! Paulon's Poetry Perpetrated Post-warning Although being
plagiarised, it isn't too awful.>

"They seek him here,
They seek him there,
Those pies seek him everywhere...
But is he in Heaven?
Or is he in Hell?
That Demmed Elusive Cape Dwell. Er."

The pies immediately streak off, each heading in a different direction.
Paulon waits.

Upon an endless white plain, Cape Dweller hears a faint whistling noise,
moments before three pies appear from nowhere, striking simultaneously
from three different directions.
*SPLUT!* *SPLUT!* *SPLUT!*

Paulon hears the faint sound of impacting pies, and speaks out once more.
"Welcome to the Dragons and to this newsgroup. Enjoy thy time here."

--
Paulon Dragon d++ e- N T+ Om U1!23!4!5!6!7'!S'!8!K!A!L!W!M!
-==(UDIC)==- u++ uC+ uF uG uLB+ uA+ nC nH+ nI nPT nS+ nT+ y?
The Other Codex http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~paulryan/Ultima/Codex.htm

Settle for what you can get, but first ask for the World
Ka'a Orto'o, Gnomic Utterances, C IV

Negate the Spell to Wish Me Well

Destrius

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Nov 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/30/98
to
...and it was written on the heavens that on Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:13:39 -0600,
the entity named Fortran Dragon (for...@earthlink.net)
inscribed the following words in rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons:

-clip-


> Oh well, eleven little dragons...

-clip-

Within a dark, musty room, a body slowly stirrs.

Destrius stands up, and looks around.

Dead Dragons. Somebody has been killing the Dragons.

The mage grabs his staff, chants a few syllables of magic, and melts into
the dust...

--
+-------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Destrius Dragon | -=*[UnSPLUT!]*=- |
| Official Mad Mage | Web: http://destrius.simplenet.com |
| -=*[~UDIC~]*=- | Email: d e s t r i u s @ g e o c i t i e s . c o m |
+-------------------+-----------------------------------------------------+
| "Am I dreaming of a butterfly, or is the butterfly dreaming of me...?" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Samurai

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Nov 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/30/98
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Quoth u...@the.sig.addy (Destrius):
>Spock (ccr...@cgNoSPAMcable.net) inscribed the following words:

>>I've received my confirmation letter from Bababooey Dragon.
>>I'm officially a Wyrm!
>

>Greetings. *SPLUT*

Another welcome,
This one both poetic and
Food-filled. To wit: *SPLUT!*

;)

>Sorry for being so brief, but I've got a murderer to catch...

I'm beginning to get a little worried about Fortran's tendencies.
Indeed, perhaps only PLOT THREAD can save us now! :D
--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon ~~ UDIC Code ~~
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e N T--Om+U146MA7'L8u-uC++
\ `^--^ Founder \/ of SAPS uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
\ \ \ (Remove fish to reply) nI++nPT+nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a22
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________

Fortran Dragon

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Nov 30, 1998, 3:00:00 AM11/30/98
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From the Void comes HelgrazB bearing this piece of Light...
> Steps out of the shadows behind Fortran and cuts loose with a ripper.
>
> While he's stunned, chants :
>
> IN VAS GRAV CORP
>
> "Next time, learn how to kill a dragon mage. Ten little dragons - and one
> idgit."
>
> :: takes to the sky and flitters off to Shangri La ::

<thwack!>

Off he goes...

Heehee. Illusions. Don't you love 'em? <evil grin>

Also, don't you love the arrogance of Dragon Mages? They all
think that only they can cast Magic. It gets them every time.

<Fortran is suddenly glad he isn't a native Britannian Dragon>

<sigh>

I hate doing this to them, but they need the shock. If I can grab
them unsuspecting like this, then I hope their native paranoia and
intellect will kick in and prevent someone else from hoodwinking them so
easily.

I wish you luck, my fellow Dragons.

Alright, who will be next?

Destrius

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Dec 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/1/98
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...and it was written on the heavens that on Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:33:14 GMT,
the entity named Samurai (Sam...@daisho.prestelcod.co.uk)
inscribed the following words in rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons:

-clip-


>Another welcome,
>This one both poetic and
>Food-filled. To wit: *SPLUT!*

-clip-

Nice. :)

-clip-


>I'm beginning to get a little worried about Fortran's tendencies.
>Indeed, perhaps only PLOT THREAD can save us now! :D

-clip-

PLOT THREAD! Hero of Goodness, Light, and all those fluffy things!

Fortran Dragon

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Dec 1, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/1/98
to
From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...
[Snip]

> I'm beginning to get a little worried about Fortran's tendencies.
> Indeed, perhaps only PLOT THREAD can save us now! :D

.... somewhere a floating horse begins to lose buoyancy ....

Samurai

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Dec 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/14/98
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Quoth for...@earthlink.net (Fortran Dragon):

>From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...

>> I'm beginning to get a little worried about Fortran's tendencies.


>> Indeed, perhaps only PLOT THREAD can save us now! :D
>
>.... somewhere a floating horse begins to lose buoyancy ....

It appears playing the waiting game was for the best, in this
instance. You dropped the horse on Helgraf in the finish, so I
managed to escape your sudden desire to imitate slasher flicks totally
unscathed. *smug grin*


--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon ~~ UDIC Code ~~

| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'L8u-uC++
\ `^--^ \/ uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++
\ \ \ (Remove fish to reply) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a23
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________

Fortran Dragon

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Dec 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/15/98
to
From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...
[Snip]

> It appears playing the waiting game was for the best, in this
> instance. You dropped the horse on Helgraf in the finish, so I
> managed to escape your sudden desire to imitate slasher flicks totally
> unscathed. *smug grin*

There;'s always a floating horse...

Samurai

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Dec 17, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/17/98
to
Quoth for...@earthlink.net (Fortran Dragon):

>From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...

>> It appears playing the waiting game was for the best, in this


>> instance. You dropped the horse on Helgraf in the finish, so I
>> managed to escape your sudden desire to imitate slasher flicks
>> totally unscathed. *smug grin*
>
> There's always a floating horse...

There's more than one?! Well, I admire your extensive telekinetic
powers in keeping them all up there, anyway.

Even if your concentration does lapse from time to time. :)


--
___________________________________________________________
\^\^//
,^ ( ..) Samurai Dragon ~~ UDIC Code ~~
| \ \ -==(UDIC)==- d++e+N T--Om+U146MA7'L8u-uC++
\ `^--^ \/ uF-uG++uLB+uA+nC++uR nH+nP+++

\ \ \ (Note Reply-To addy) nI--nPT nS+++nT--wM-wC y+ a23
ksj ^--^ ___________________________________________________________

Fortran Dragon

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Dec 17, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/17/98
to
From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...
[Snip]

> There's more than one?! Well, I admire your extensive telekinetic
> powers in keeping them all up there, anyway.

Psionics are for the puny. ;) I prefer a permanent magic spell.



> Even if your concentration does lapse from time to time. :)

I don't drop the ball when it comes to falling horses...

Fortran Dragon

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Dec 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/18/98
to
From the Void comes HelgrazB bearing this piece of Light...
> :: a sealed letter appears from the Ether near Fortran Dragon ::
>
> A simple bit of fine manipulation reveals a brief missive inside.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> The horse was quite tasty - please send more posthaste, you're falling behind
> on tribute.
> ~ Helgraf Dragon
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hmm. <evil grin> That does give me an idea where I can send
those horsely byproducts on my stable floor...


<chuckle> Tribute this...

Fortran Dragon

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Dec 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/19/98
to
From the Void comes HelgrazB bearing this piece of Light...
> :: snickers :: Fortunately I've been quite careful to ward my lair against . .
> by products.

What? You haven't been accepting your 'tribute'? What a naughty
Dragon. ;)

Fortran Dragon

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Dec 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/19/98
to
From the Void comes HelgrazB bearing this piece of Light...
> *smile* Oh, I've been accepting it - and having it third party forwarded to
> Daemonstroemer, F-15 and the various other trolls of late.

<rotflmao!> What a well thought out plan.


<chuckle>

<chuckle>

<guffaw>

<chuckle>

:)

Samurai

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Jan 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/3/99
to
[From the vaults ...]

Quoth for...@earthlink.net (Fortran Dragon):
>From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...


>
>> There's more than one?! Well, I admire your extensive
>> telekinetic powers in keeping them all up there, anyway.
>
> Psionics are for the puny. ;) I prefer a permanent magic spell.

Puny, eh ...? Don't like all of that tedious mucking about with
reagents and gestures, myself -- easier just to concentrate on
something, and have it happen.



>> Even if your concentration does lapse from time to time. :)
>
>I don't drop the ball when it comes to falling horses...

So it was deliberate when all those people got squashed, then?

*taps the concealed microphone in his trenchcoat*

Fortran Dragon

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Jan 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/7/99
to
From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...
[Snip]

> Puny, eh ...? Don't like all of that tedious mucking about with
> reagents and gestures, myself -- easier just to concentrate on
> something, and have it happen.

Not all forms of magic require reagents and/or gestures...

[Snip]


> So it was deliberate when all those people got squashed, then?
>
> *taps the concealed microphone in his trenchcoat*

It was just as deliberate as all of those pie spluts. <evil grin>

Samurai

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Jan 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/10/99
to
Quoth for...@earthlink.net (Fortran Dragon):

>From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...

>> Puny, eh ...? Don't like all of that tedious mucking about with


>> reagents and gestures, myself -- easier just to concentrate on
>> something, and have it happen.
>
>Not all forms of magic require reagents and/or gestures...

True -- there are the Power Word spells in D&D, for starters. Most of
the cool spells have a bit more to them than just a verbal component,
though. 'Sides, psionics doesn't even require that!



>> So it was deliberate when all those people got squashed, then?
>>
>> *taps the concealed microphone in his trenchcoat*
>
>It was just as deliberate as all of those pie spluts. <evil grin>

Oh. Erm ... we'll just leave it at that, then, shall we?

kewh...@indiana.edu

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Jan 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/11/99
to

Samurai wrote:

> Quoth for...@earthlink.net (Fortran Dragon):


> >Not all forms of magic require reagents and/or gestures...
>
> True -- there are the Power Word spells in D&D, for starters. Most of
> the cool spells have a bit more to them than just a verbal component,
> though. 'Sides, psionics doesn't even require that!

So sorry to nitpick, but I have to inform everyone that psionics, being
not a form of magic, doesn't qualify as a reply to Fortran's post. It's
all in your head (pun intended).

-Lumina Dragon


Allan Olley

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to

First, depending on who you believe magic may just be a form of
psionics. Also, you nit is out of line because Fortran and Samurai
are debating which is superior magic or psionics, so your comment is
rather out of line I think.
--
d e- N- T- Om++ UK!1!2!3!4!6A78! u uC uF- uG+ uLB+ uA nC nR nH+ nP nI+
nPT nS+ nT- y- a19
Member of the Cinnaguard
Blue Bow [B><B]
-----------
Yours Truly Saint George's Dragon
Allan Olley -==UDIC==-
-----------
"Conscription if necessary, but not necessarily conscription."
William Lyon Mackenzie King.

kewh...@indiana.edu

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Jan 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/12/99
to

Allan Olley wrote:

> First, depending on who you believe magic may just be a form of
> psionics. Also, you nit is out of line because Fortran and Samurai
> are debating which is superior magic or psionics, so your comment is
> rather out of line I think.

I did not know that. I only saw the one post.... OK, I think I'll join in
then. :) (I *am* well-versed in many things AD&Dish. Well, the PHB, the
Complete Books of Fighters, Priests, Thieves, Wizards, and Psionicists, and
parts of the DMG. And a lot of FR-specific stuff. But I digress.)

Psionics v. Magic, eh?

Psionics: Pros
Pure willpower; no VSM components.
Usually faster then magic with its casting times.
Undetectable by magic; only other psionicists cas percieve it as psionics.

Magic: Pros
Usually more powerful.
Wish. Need I say more?
You don't see psionic items lying around, do you?

Pros to both:
Each has certain powers undoable by the other.

Cons to both:
Are mutually exclusive due to mental training req'd for each.

-Lumina Dragon


Samurai

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Jan 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/16/99
to
Quoth kewh...@indiana.edu:
>Allan Olley wrote:

>> First, depending on who you believe magic may just be a form of
>> psionics.

Potentially, yes. It's all a matter of definitions.

>> Also, you nit is out of line because Fortran and Samurai are
>> debating which is superior magic or psionics,

Indeedly.

>> so your comment is rather out of line I think.
>
>I did not know that. I only saw the one post.... OK, I think I'll
>join in then. :)

That's Lumina, all right. :)

>(I *am* well-versed in many things AD&Dish. Well, the PHB, the
>Complete Books of Fighters, Priests, Thieves, Wizards, and
>Psionicists, and parts of the DMG. And a lot of FR-specific
>stuff. But I digress.)

We were talking more generally than the AD&D sphere, I think, but any
input is welcome, given the not-entirely-serious nature of the debate.
:)

>Psionics v. Magic, eh?
>
>Psionics: Pros
>Pure willpower; no VSM components.
>Usually faster then magic with its casting times.
>Undetectable by magic; only other psionicists cas percieve it as
>psionics.

Well, quite.

>Magic: Pros
>Usually more powerful.

Pfft. Depends on your perspective.

>Wish. Need I say more?

I can do without ageing five years for the sake of one spell, thank
you. :)

>You don't see psionic items lying around, do you?

Sometimes, you do. And there are quite a number of artifacts, I
submit, that would not exist without some sort of psionic influence.

>Pros to both:
>Each has certain powers undoable by the other.
>
>Cons to both:
>Are mutually exclusive due to mental training req'd for each.

Hmm. I dunno about that ... I think it's more a question of not
having _time_ to devote to the study of both to achieve much in
either.

Fortran Dragon

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Jan 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/17/99
to
From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...
[Snip]

> Potentially, yes. It's all a matter of definitions.

Quite. I see psionics as tapping the power inside the individual,
whereas magic taps the power inherent in things outside of the mage.

[Snip]
> Indeedly.

In many cases they are complementary. In _general_ psionics are
usually available, but limited in power, whereas magic is harder to
'do', but of greater potential power.

[Snip]


> We were talking more generally than the AD&D sphere, I think, but any
> input is welcome, given the not-entirely-serious nature of the debate.
> :)

Definitely.

[Snip]


> Sometimes, you do. And there are quite a number of artifacts, I
> submit, that would not exist without some sort of psionic influence.

Or is it that they have magic properties that replicate psionic
powers? (The problem with psionics in the 1st edition AD&D was that
psionics was poorly integrated with the rest of the rules. In my
opinion if you are going to have psionics in a FRPG then you need to
create the psionics rules at the same time you create the magic rules.)

Samurai

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Jan 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/19/99
to
Quoth for...@earthlink.net (Fortran Dragon):

>From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...

>> Potentially, yes. It's all a matter of definitions.


>
>Quite. I see psionics as tapping the power inside the individual,
>whereas magic taps the power inherent in things outside of the mage.

That's more or less how I look at them, yes, though Jedi skills are
difficult to slot into that definition. I'd say they're definitely
psionic rather than magical, yet we know from Yoda that the Force
flows through everything. The jedi acts as little more than a channel
for that, really.

The oriental idea of 'Chi' is very similar, in some ways.

[munch]


>In many cases they are complementary. In _general_ psionics are
>usually available, but limited in power, whereas magic is harder
>to 'do', but of greater potential power.

Because the universe as a whole can contain more potential power than
one person's body, yes. OTOH, if you're of the opinion that there are
no real limits to the human mind, psionics could be the most powerful
force in the universe with a truly focused mind.

[munch]


>> And there are quite a number of artifacts, I submit, that would
>> not exist without some sort of psionic influence.
>
>Or is it that they have magic properties that replicate psionic
>powers?

Hmm. Potentially, but I see it more as the creators spending so much
time and effort in creating their masterpiece that some of their own
essence seeps into it, giving the artifact at least some of its
extraordinary power.

That 'seepage', I would say, can only be classed as psionic, even if
unintentional.

>(The problem with psionics in the 1st edition AD&D was that
>psionics was poorly integrated with the rest of the rules. In my
>opinion if you are going to have psionics in a FRPG then you need
>to create the psionics rules at the same time you create the magic
>rules.)

I entirely agree -- it's another of the reasons I find the Second
Edition so much better. Admittedly, psionics weren't in the PH, but
making psionicists a separate class in the handbooks made the concept
blend a lot better, I thought.

It remains to be seen what TSR make of it in the Third Edition. :)

Fortran Dragon

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Jan 20, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/20/99
to
From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...
[Snip]

> Because the universe as a whole can contain more potential power than
> one person's body, yes. OTOH, if you're of the opinion that there are
> no real limits to the human mind, psionics could be the most powerful
> force in the universe with a truly focused mind.

Well, if you follow the David Eddings school of thought, the human
mind is limited and a mage/psionicists have to study long and hard to
stretch their minds. Even then some people can do things that no one
else can replicate because of the unique nature of individual thought.

[Snip]


> It remains to be seen what TSR make of it in the Third Edition. :)

I'm afraid that it will move even further away from the fun parts
of AD&D and become something bland and generic. <sigh>

Vulcan Dragon

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Jan 21, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/21/99
to
A mind meld with for...@earthlink.net (Fortran Dragon) on Wed, 20 Jan
1999 18:57:17 -0600 revealed:

> Well, if you follow the David Eddings school of thought, the human
>mind is limited and a mage/psionicists have to study long and hard to
>stretch their minds. Even then some people can do things that no one
>else can replicate because of the unique nature of individual thought.

Well, if we're sinking into our treasured pulp books now, I prefer
Jordan's method: Magic/Psionics ability is innate. However new
skills must be learned. And if you're really bad, you can lose your
ability completely. But if the DM is really nice, you can get that
back at a greatly reduced max strength.

;-)
----------------------------------------------------
Vulcan Dragon -=UDIC=-
Lord of the Chicken Wings
mcar...@columbus.rr.com

Fortran Dragon

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Jan 21, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/21/99
to
From the Void comes Vulcan Dragon bearing this piece of Light...
[Snip]

> Well, if we're sinking into our treasured pulp books now, I prefer
> Jordan's method: Magic/Psionics ability is innate. However new
> skills must be learned. And if you're really bad, you can lose your
> ability completely. But if the DM is really nice, you can get that
> back at a greatly reduced max strength.
>
> ;-)

That would be the system for Destrius since all the males go
mad...

kewh...@indiana.edu

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Jan 21, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/21/99
to

Fortran Dragon wrote:

> From the Void comes Vulcan Dragon bearing this piece of Light...
> [Snip]
> > Well, if we're sinking into our treasured pulp books now, I prefer
> > Jordan's method: Magic/Psionics ability is innate. However new
> > skills must be learned. And if you're really bad, you can lose your
> > ability completely. But if the DM is really nice, you can get that
> > back at a greatly reduced max strength.
> >
> > ;-)
>
> That would be the system for Destrius since all the males go
> mad...

Heh. Indeed. I, too, was thinking along the lines of RJ's method after your
post from that other author. But I was thiking about the part about limits
and how it could be applied to psionics. In your post, you proposed that
there are no limits to the human mind, but in RJ's books, you will notice a
few instances where it refers to the mind setting its own limits. What one
thinks is undoable, is. Something wich culd be applied to psionics as well,
due to it being from the mind.

-Lumina Dragon


Fortran Dragon

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Jan 21, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/21/99
to
From the Void comes kewh...@indiana.edu bearing this piece of Light...
[Snip]

> In your post, you proposed that
> there are no limits to the human mind,

That was Samurai. :)

Destrius

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Jan 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/23/99
to
...and it was written on the heavens that on Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:02:19 -0600,
the entity named Fortran Dragon (for...@earthlink.net)
inscribed the following words in rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons:

-clip-


>> Well, if we're sinking into our treasured pulp books now, I prefer
>> Jordan's method: Magic/Psionics ability is innate. However new
>> skills must be learned. And if you're really bad, you can lose your
>> ability completely. But if the DM is really nice, you can get that
>> back at a greatly reduced max strength.
>>
>> ;-)
>
> That would be the system for Destrius since all the males go
>mad...

-clip-

Mad magic is much more powerful than other other form of magic in the
known universe...

--
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| Destrius Dragon | -=*[UnSPLUT!]*=- |
| Official Mad Mage | Web: http://destrius.simplenet.com |

| -=*[~UDIC~]*=- | Email: d e s t r i us@ge o c i t i e s . c o m |


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+--<INFP>-------------------------------------------------<SG: +8 GMT>----+

Spock

unread,
Jan 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/23/99
to
Samurai wrote:
>
> Quoth for...@earthlink.net (Fortran Dragon):
>
> >In many cases they are complementary. In _general_ psionics are
> >usually available, but limited in power, whereas magic is harder
> >to 'do', but of greater potential power.
>
> Because the universe as a whole can contain more potential power than
> one person's body, yes. OTOH, if you're of the opinion that there are
> no real limits to the human mind, psionics could be the most powerful
> force in the universe with a truly focused mind.

Remembering of course that magic still has to be channeled through the
mage, so is limited in that respect.

Cape Dweller Dragon -==UDIC==-
current debt: $9999824

Samurai

unread,
Jan 24, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/24/99
to
Quoth for...@earthlink.net (Fortran Dragon):
>From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...
>[Snip]

>> Because the universe as a whole can contain more potential power
>> than one person's body, yes. OTOH, if you're of the opinion that
>> there are no real limits to the human mind, psionics could be the
>> most powerful force in the universe with a truly focused mind.
>
>Well, if you follow the David Eddings school of thought, the human
>mind is limited and a mage/psionicists have to study long and hard
>to stretch their minds.

Yes, but look how _much_ they can stretch them. Polgara, for example,
granted Salmissra immortality!

Also, I'm not so sure wht you said applies to magic in Eddings' books.
The Morindim managed to conjure up daemons without _too_ much effort,
but I suppose that's because the daemons _wanted_ to be summoned.

And the knights militant in the Elenium and the Tamuli could replicate
Styric magic without even knowing the language -- all they had to do
was mirror the gestures their Styric teachers showed them.

Of course, some like Sparhawk were better at it than others (I seem to
recall Kalten's magic being awful), as you mention below, which I'd
guess is a mixture of talent and dedication.

>Even then some people can do things that no one else can replicate
>because of the unique nature of individual thought.

Or because they've got one of the fundamental forces of the universe
stuck on their sword pommel or in their saddlebag ... ;)

>> It remains to be seen what TSR make of it in the Third Edition. :)
>
>I'm afraid that it will move even further away from the fun parts
>of AD&D and become something bland and generic. <sigh>

I can't believe WotC could be that dim. GURPS seems to have the
generic RPG market pretty sewn up, and a lot of the attraction of AD&D
was its unique elements.

(Though I still think Armour Class and Saving Throws suck. ;)

Fortran Dragon

unread,
Jan 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/25/99
to
From the Void comes Destrius bearing this piece of Light...
[Snip]

> Mad magic is much more powerful than other other form of magic in the
> known universe...

Death.

Fortran Dragon

unread,
Jan 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/25/99
to
From the Void comes HelgrazB bearing this piece of Light...
[Snip]
> Another point is that not all magic flows through the caster - some users of
> magic merely take energies in existance and reshape them to their desires.

Which is a premise in AD&D. A third level spell would kill the
caster if they tried to pull the energy from themselves.

Allan Olley

unread,
Jan 25, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/25/99
to
On Sun, 24 Jan 1999 00:04:47 GMT, Sam...@see.reply-to-header
(Samurai) wrote:
>And the knights militant in the Elenium and the Tamuli could replicate
>Styric magic without even knowing the language -- all they had to do
>was mirror the gestures their Styric teachers showed them.
>Of course, some like Sparhawk were better at it than others (I seem to
>recall Kalten's magic being awful), as you mention below, which I'd
>guess is a mixture of talent and dedication.

Except that Styric magic was nothing more than calling upon the Styric
gods, and then directing the power they gave you with your will IIRC,
and so not magic in many people's sense since it relies on divinity.
Actually, Kalen IIRC was the knight you was incapable of thinking in
Styric (he used his Elenium intellegence to determine that they were
smarter because everyone else had to translate their thoughts from
Elenium (I hope I got that right)) and had no magic ability.


>>> It remains to be seen what TSR make of it in the Third Edition. :)
>>I'm afraid that it will move even further away from the fun parts
>>of AD&D and become something bland and generic. <sigh>
>I can't believe WotC could be that dim. GURPS seems to have the
>generic RPG market pretty sewn up, and a lot of the attraction of AD&D
>was its unique elements.
>(Though I still think Armour Class and Saving Throws suck. ;)

I have to ask, what is are the unique attractions AD&D offers (and
offered in 1st).

Not that I can be considered to have good judgement in regards to RPGs
I like Rifts (actually I like all the RPGs made by Palladium, but that
is the one with the most (in)famous reputation).

Fortran Dragon

unread,
Jan 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/26/99
to
From the Void comes Samurai bearing this piece of Light...
[Snip]

> Yes, but look how _much_ they can stretch them. Polgara, for example,
> granted Salmissra immortality!

Yes, but did she do it alone, or did the Prophecy help her? :)

> Also, I'm not so sure wht you said applies to magic in Eddings' books.
> The Morindim managed to conjure up daemons without _too_ much effort,
> but I suppose that's because the daemons _wanted_ to be summoned.

Ah, but remember that one guy in the Mallorean they found that
talked about studying a decade or so to learn how to summon demons? I
suspect the Morindim and the like were specialists, whereas others were
generalists.



> And the knights militant in the Elenium and the Tamuli could replicate
> Styric magic without even knowing the language -- all they had to do
> was mirror the gestures their Styric teachers showed them.

They were consecrated knights, though, so I imagine their deity
had something to do with it. (or the Younger Styric gods, anyway.)



> Of course, some like Sparhawk were better at it than others (I seem to
> recall Kalten's magic being awful), as you mention below, which I'd
> guess is a mixture of talent and dedication.

Considering he was the Anadak (?) and was outside the influence of
many things...

[Snip]


> Or because they've got one of the fundamental forces of the universe
> stuck on their sword pommel or in their saddlebag ... ;)

That's one thing I didn't like about Eddings work. The fact that
everything was pre-ordained. There was no real free will.

[Snip]


> I can't believe WotC could be that dim. GURPS seems to have the
> generic RPG market pretty sewn up, and a lot of the attraction of AD&D
> was its unique elements.
>
> (Though I still think Armour Class and Saving Throws suck. ;)

I'd prefer a more general Magic Resistance over the saving throws.
I would speed up the game.

I do like Armor Class, but I don't ever use the Weapon Type versus
modifiers, though, and having the AC scale start with one or ten (as has
been suggested by TSR for a potential 3rd edition) would make more sense.

Spock

unread,
Jan 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/26/99
to
Fortran Dragon wrote:
>
> From the Void comes HelgrazB bearing this piece of Light...
> [Snip]

> > Another point is that not all magic flows through the caster - some users of
> > magic merely take energies in existance and reshape them to their desires.
>
> Which is a premise in AD&D. A third level spell would kill the
> caster if they tried to pull the energy from themselves.

They still have to have enough control to do it, though. How exactly
would they reshape the magical energies without passing it through
themselves then? Perhaps we've reached the point where psionics and
magic come together. That must be why they're mutually exclusive - you
either use your psionic powers by themselves, or to control magic. Tell
me if I'm just repeating what is said somewhere else :) It's been a
long time since I looked at the AD&D rules.

Cape Dweller Dragon -==UDIC==-
current debt: $9999806

Allan Olley

unread,
Jan 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/26/99
to
On Tue, 26 Jan 1999 14:54:44 -0600, for...@earthlink.net (Fortran
Dragon) wrote:
>[Snip]
>> Or because they've got one of the fundamental forces of the universe
>> stuck on their sword pommel or in their saddlebag ... ;)
> That's one thing I didn't like about Eddings work. The fact that
>everything was pre-ordained. There was no real free will.

This may suprise you but every book is preordained (I am suprised you
never noticed the characters doing the same stupid things over and
over):).

Also, at least in the Belgariad setting, their certainly was free will
you could either choose except their was only one choose to make,
between the two possible destinies of the universe. Of course, in
that universe this split into possible futures was an unatural
occurence. No one knew until whats her name made the decision what
final future would unfold.

Beyond that how does it make the characters any less realistic or
whatever that their actions were preordained. I never got the
impression that say Garion ever really did anything against his will
as such, his nature and circumstances lead to every decision he made
just like with "free will" the only difference is that someone can
predict what he is going to do.

Ibn al-Hazardous Dragon

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Jan 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM1/28/99
to
In the hall of rec.games.computer.ultima.dragons the entity commonly
known as Allan Olley on Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:56:51 GMT uttered the
following message:

}Except that Styric magic was nothing more than calling upon the Styric
}gods, and then directing the power they gave you with your will IIRC,
}and so not magic in many people's sense since it relies on divinity.
}Actually, Kalen IIRC was the knight you was incapable of thinking in
}Styric (he used his Elenium intellegence to determine that they were
}smarter because everyone else had to translate their thoughts from
}Elenium (I hope I got that right)) and had no magic ability.

I recently reread that book, and you got everything right except the
last part. He was able, though Aphrael didn't generally (though there
were exceptions) answer has "prayers" since she (rightly) presumed he
didn't _really_ want what he through bad pronounciation appeared to ask
for. Also there is a place where Sparhawk just asks for some light in
Elenic, and gets it... (At their first encounter with the Cyrgai.)
-- F
Ibn al-Hazardous Dragon /\
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