UO/Virtues/And the coming times
Lost Dragon
>role-playing. Playing the role of an assassin is legitimate, if
>distasteful, and as long as one plays his role correctly I have no problem
>with it.
Excellent point. I kill for profit. If someone hires me to kill the
person that I have been gaming with for the past three months, then I
shall do it (price would probably exceed anything anyone could pay, but
the option is still there). I also reserve the right to turn a job down.
There is honor, even among assassins.
I worry more about the game becoming a graphical IRC than I worry about
random player-killers (players who just run out and start killing
typically do not stay in the game long enough to matter).
I dislike intervention by "gods" of any game. Let the players take care
of their own problems (for instance, killing anyone who doesn't role play
;).
/| .oo__. .-----.----------Lost-Dragon-----------.-----. .__oo. |\
| \| ,-'' | _O_ | lost...@cris.com | _O_ | ``-, |/ |
`,_/,(_)\_ | | | Member: Ultima Dragons | | | _/(_),\_,'
_.,-=(_)_)_ ''`-----`-http://www.cris.com/~lostdrgn/-'-----'`` _(_(_)=-,._
Centurion
> There is also a concern that the Virtues will be all but lost. I hope
> that Origin at least distributes some background information with the
> release of the game so that incoming players that are new to Ultima
> will at least understand what some of us are talking about. Think
> about the amount of people that will feel better about playing a game
> knowing that there are thousands of players who believe in the
> Virtues, or who at least try to follow them in some fashion. With
> several players claiming strict adherence to them, new players cannot
> help but come in contact with kinder souls from time to time.
Yech. Lets not shove morality down peoples throats; especially if its
just a game. UOL will be an opportunity to create a fantasy persona
different from your real self. To be a player-killer sounds like fun to
me. To be a real killer does not. To adopt the virtues of a GAME seems
reprehensible to me, even if they do seem Ok. I wouldn't want to give
Ultima a religious quality.
(snip)
> In essence I think that there are enough of us planning to be good
> players that the fear of PK's and other assorted childish players will
> be kept to a minumum. I am not saying that playing the role of an
> assassin is not allowed. Just don't be surprised if the role players
> decide to role play your demise. A job is a job, but some jobs are
> very sociably acceptable.
My impression is that UOL will default to barbarism. I think most people
will want to be deviants, and this will be the norm. I'll roll my eyes
at the Avatar's of the game the same way I do real holy-rollers (unless
there are real benefits to Avatarhood).
Centurion
Jeffrey Morgan
There has been much discussion concerning the coming days...all quite
exciting and relevant. Many are concerned about the player killers
that will undoubtably come to haunt the game. Others are concerned
that the game will become stale and uninteresting because of the lack
of interesting things to do. Some say Guilds will spend all of their
time in petty squabbles designed to rake power from the other and lord
over all.
There is also a concern that the Virtues will be all but lost. I hope
that Origin at least distributes some background information with the
release of the game so that incoming players that are new to Ultima
will at least understand what some of us are talking about. Think
about the amount of people that will feel better about playing a game
knowing that there are thousands of players who believe in the
Virtues, or who at least try to follow them in some fashion. With
several players claiming strict adherence to them, new players cannot
help but come in contact with kinder souls from time to time.
I myself will be a believer. No matter what else I may do, I will
treat a new player as a potential friend until that player is proven
to be an enemy. I am separate from the petty squabbles of the other
Guilds as I hope to use UO as a world with a blank slate for the
esthetic need to roam the land in search of enlightenment that burns
in me. My wife will come to hate the game, though, I am sure. :)
In essence I think that there are enough of us planning to be good
players that the fear of PK's and other assorted childish players will
be kept to a minumum. I am not saying that playing the role of an
assassin is not allowed. Just don't be surprised if the role players
decide to role play your demise. A job is a job, but some jobs are
very sociably acceptable.
Perhaps the social aspects that some are afraid of will be best
handled in the inns and taverns. Afterall, that is where they are best
done. Still, if one is role playing then constant speech during
travels is expected.
The coming world is glorius. Await the future.
Michael Carmack
Jeffrey Morgan (my...@sel-mor.com) wrote:
: In essence I think that there are enough of us planning to be good
: players that the fear of PK's and other assorted childish players will
: be kept to a minumum. I am not saying that playing the role of an
: assassin is not allowed. Just don't be surprised if the role players
: decide to role play your demise. A job is a job, but some jobs are
: very sociably acceptable.
This is the attitude I hold as well. There's a big difference between
killing another player and being a PKiller in my eyes. Two players may
eventually come to blows for legitimate purposes, resulting in the other's
death. That does not constitute PKilling, it's just the downside of
role-playing. Playing the role of an assassin is legitimate, if
distasteful, and as long as one plays his role correctly I have no problem
with it.
PKillers, on the other hand, simply want to fight and fight and fight and
kill other players for the sheer joy of ruining someone else's fun. In an
online world, you might classify them as psychopaths; they kill for no
real reason and they do so without remorse. As in the real world, these
individuals need to be dealt with in the harshest fashion: removal from
society, i.e. ejection from the online game.
But then that brings up the "Where do you draw the line?" question. Who
is to decide what is legitimate killing of other players and what is
out-and-out PKilling? The Origin staff, of course; in the world of
Ultima Online, the staff are essentially the "gods". It would be a simple
matter to keep track of the number of other players you've killed in a
predefined time interval. Once that number reaches a certain unacceptable
threshold, a staff member could begin monitoring your activites for a
short while to determine your fate and issue warnings or something (e.g.
first warning: verbal; second warning: dramatic reduction in skills and
posessions, stronger verbal; third and final: kill the PKiller,
complete reset of skills and posessions to newbie level, final verbal
warning; fourth: Cancellation of UOL account.)
My personal fear is that the PKillers and the PKiller-hunters are going to
get in the way of the rest of us having a fantastic experience. I hope
I'm proven wrong.
--
========================================================================
"In sports, it's not who wins or | Mike Carmack
loses; it's how drunk you get." | Vulcan Dragon -==(UDIC)==-
- Homer Simpson | mcar...@freenet.columbus.oh.us
Lady Whisper
In article <325cc61f...@news.atl.mindspring.com>
my...@sel-mor.com (Jeffrey Morgan) wrote:
> I myself will be a believer. No matter what else I may do, I will
> treat a new player as a potential friend until that player is proven
> to be an enemy. I am separate from the petty squabbles of the other
> Guilds as I hope to use UO as a world with a blank slate for the
> esthetic need to roam the land in search of enlightenment that burns
> in me. My wife will come to hate the game, though, I am sure. :)
> In essence I think that there are enough of us planning to be good
> players that the fear of PK's and other assorted childish players will
> be kept to a minumum. I am not saying that playing the role of an
> assassin is not allowed. Just don't be surprised if the role players
> decide to role play your demise. A job is a job, but some jobs are
> very sociably acceptable.
For any wishing to walk the path of the virtuous, the PVLBs should
interest you. We aren't what is currently being referred to as a "guild",
as most of the UO guilds are just a bunch of thug gangs. We have
existed for many years now and aren't just being created for UO. Find
out more about the PVLBs (Protectors of Virtue and Lord British) at the
following URL: http://www.bestware.net/whisper/pvlb.shtml
Lady Whisper
WORLDS OF ORIGIN: http://www.bestware.net/whisper/woo
PVLBs: http://www.bestware.net/whisper/pvlb.shtml
Darren Rhodes
On 9 Oct 1996 13:26:20 -0400, mcar...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Michael
Carmack) wrote:
>My personal fear is that the PKillers and the PKiller-hunters are going to
>get in the way of the rest of us having a fantastic experience. I hope
>I'm proven wrong.
Don't be too hasty to rebuke the P-Ker's, because IMHO they too have
their place in a world of virtue and faith, because there will always
be those who will follow the paths of chaos!! I mean whilst you are at
it, why don't you get Origin to remove all the nasty monsters from the
game and why not get them to put comfy mattresses at the bottom of
perilous drops and chasms!!
If you want to look at PKer's in a different light think of them as
intelligent monsters!! I for one won't particularly enjoy getting
killed by them, but then i won't really enjoy getting staked by any of
the monsters!! at least you may be able to pay off a pker!!
Menthos Dragon
Lost Dragon
>apart from other services I've payed for. Too often, developers have so
>much fun boosting their egos by stomping players that they forget that the
>"players" are also "customers".
Absolutely a valid concern!! Although I believe I read in the UO FAQ that
the roaming "ultima employee gods" would be very limited in terms of
"special" powers. Nothing kills a game faster than getting crushed by
some min. wage employee with an over-extended ego.
I've played in MUDs where you basically had to worship the employees
or suffer their "wrath". I got so frustrated that I lead a gang of about
20 low level guys and we trashed one of the "gods" of the game. We took
his special weapons and hid them all over the game. It was fun, but we
were punished. After that the game became stale and. It eventually lost
so many players that it ceased to exist.
Alan Magnan
> If you want to look at PKer's in a different light think of them as
> intelligent monsters!! I for one won't particularly enjoy getting
> killed by them, but then i won't really enjoy getting staked by any of
> the monsters!! at least you may be able to pay off a pker!!
>
I think it will be relatively easy to avoid these PKers. First of all,
cities will be pretty safe, providing for those NPC guards. Other means of
providing safety during travel will crop up I'm sure. Maybe people will get
together to move from one city to another in small convoys, thus avoiding
that "here I am, ripe for the picking" look.
Or you could hire a couple of PCs or maybe even NPCs for that matter, to
escort you. The point is, I think there'll be plenty of ways to get around
PKers.
"I am Homer of Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is... OOOH!
DONUTS!"
Alan Magnan
Jeffrey Morgan
Centurion <cent...@aristotle.net> wrote:
>
>Yech. Lets not shove morality down peoples throats; especially if its
>just a game. UOL will be an opportunity to create a fantasy persona
>different from your real self. To be a player-killer sounds like fun to
>me. To be a real killer does not. To adopt the virtues of a GAME seems
>reprehensible to me, even if they do seem Ok. I wouldn't want to give
>Ultima a religious quality.
>
There is a difference between a religious quality and a spiritual
quality. In a world where most people play mindless shoot 'em up and
crush-the-skull-of-your-opponent games, it is very refreshing to note
a game that requires you to be aware of the consequences of your
actions: something very unlikely to happen in today's world.
Adopting the virtues of a game is reprehensible yet adopting the idea
that it is ok to kill a human in a game is ok. What do you do for a
living? It might be amusing to note that we take the game all too
serious, but your logic is very skewed here.
>(snip)
>
>> In essence I think that there are enough of us planning to be good
>> players that the fear of PK's and other assorted childish players will
>> be kept to a minumum. I am not saying that playing the role of an
>> assassin is not allowed. Just don't be surprised if the role players
>> decide to role play your demise. A job is a job, but some jobs are
>> very sociably acceptable.
>
>My impression is that UOL will default to barbarism. I think most people
>will want to be deviants, and this will be the norm. I'll roll my eyes
>at the Avatar's of the game the same way I do real holy-rollers (unless
>there are real benefits to Avatarhood).
>
>Centurion
Which, it seems, might explain your decision that pkilling is ok.
Being a deviant is one thing; non-conformists pride themselves on
defying the norm, but that doesn't make your social deviancy
acceptable. I think that you will find yourself in the decided
minority.
Gary Heikura
My biggest concern for the world isn't players and their antics, but the
problem that I have seen on many online worlds. The problem is abuse of
power by employees. I understand that powerful employees may roam Ultima,
which isn't really horrible, but it's their friends that I'm concerned
about.
Invariably, employees give favors and advantages to friends of theirs
who join the game. Nothing kills my illusion and motivation for playing
faster than getting stomped by someone who didn't earn their power.
I'd like to see Origin assure us that they have a code of conduct for
their staff that addresses this concern. That would certainly set them
apart from other services I've payed for. Too often, developers have so
much fun boosting their egos by stomping players that they forget that the
"players" are also "customers".
Jim Beavens
In article <325bfe9e...@newnews.dial.pipex.com>,
Darren Rhodes <darren...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>On 9 Oct 1996 13:26:20 -0400, mcar...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Michael
>Carmack) wrote:
>
>
>
>>My personal fear is that the PKillers and the PKiller-hunters are going to
>>get in the way of the rest of us having a fantastic experience. I hope
>>I'm proven wrong.
>
>Don't be too hasty to rebuke the P-Ker's, because IMHO they too have
>their place in a world of virtue and faith, because there will always
>be those who will follow the paths of chaos!!
I don't know why those of you striving for the way of the Avatar
don't look upon all of this chaos as a golden opportunity! I mean,
Ultima 4 never would have happened if the the world wasn't losing
its way in a directionless morass of mayhem and sorrow.
Look at this as a way to create your very own Quest of the Avatar!
It is up to you to be the shining example of light and purity that
will lead us heathens from our destructive and morally bankrupt
ways. Lead by example, and we will follow!!!
Me, I'm gonna go carve out a corner of Destard that I can call home.
See ya online. =)
Subconscious Dragon
(this is gonna be a cool game).
--
Jim Beavens <jbea...@ichips.intel.com> | If I had a witty remark that
MD6 Design Engineer, Intel Corp, Hillsboro OR | would better the lives of my
-=(UDIC)=- Subconscious Dragon -=(UDIC)=- | fellow mankind, do you really
** I don't speak for Intel ** | think I would put it HERE?
Michael Carmack
Darren Rhodes (darren...@dial.pipex.com) wrote:
: On 9 Oct 1996 13:26:20 -0400, mcar...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Michael
: Carmack) wrote:
: >My personal fear is that the PKillers and the PKiller-hunters are going to
: >get in the way of the rest of us having a fantastic experience. I hope
: >I'm proven wrong.
: Don't be too hasty to rebuke the P-Ker's, because IMHO they too have
: their place in a world of virtue and faith, because there will always
: be those who will follow the paths of chaos!!
Nope, reread my post. A PKiller is not role-playing, thus he is not
role-playing a chaotic character. He is just killing a player because
it's more fun to kill a real person than it is to kill an NPC or a monster.
That's not chaos at all, at least not by any RPG's definition of
"chaos" that I've played. It's a projection of external attitudes into the
online world, which I personally do not like.
As I stated, killing players is fine within the context of role-playing.
I plan to kill players and be killed by players; it's part of
role-playing.
Glenn Hiscock
> It would be a simple
> matter to keep track of the number of other players you've killed in a
> predefined time interval. Once that number reaches a certain
unacceptable
> threshold, a staff member could begin monitoring your activites for a
> short while to determine your fate and issue warnings or something (e.g.
> first warning: verbal; second warning: dramatic reduction in skills
and
> posessions, stronger verbal; third and final: kill the PKiller,
> complete reset of skills and posessions to newbie level, final verbal
> warning; fourth: Cancellation of UOL account.)
That is insane. I don't agree with playerkillers, but your oppinion here is
ridiculous, especially for the final version, when users are paying! The
customer is always right, and in UO they should be allowed to do what they
want. Fortunatley, players(like yourself) can deal with menaces like this
because they too can do what they want. If a PKiller arises, deal with it
like a medieval nation would, hunt him down and kill him! This bit about
cancelling accounts, and monitoring actions is just unfair, impossible, and
stupid.
I am not insulting you in any way, so please don't take it in that way.
Lyre Dragon
Victor
Glenn Hiscock wrote:
>
> That is insane. I don't agree with playerkillers, but your oppinion here is
> ridiculous, especially for the final version, when users are paying! The
> customer is always right, and in UO they should be allowed to do what they
> want. Fortunatley, players(like yourself) can deal with menaces like this
> because they too can do what they want. If a PKiller arises, deal with it
> like a medieval nation would, hunt him down and kill him! This bit about
> cancelling accounts, and monitoring actions is just unfair, impossible, and
> stupid.
>
> I am not insulting you in any way, so please don't take it in that way.
Actually, if you read the official FAQ, you would have noticed
that Origin made a special provision for chronic PKillers. That
is the case exactly because we are paying -- they would not
want to risk many disgruntled paying customer quitting just
because some asshole is getting an ego boost. I am sure that
such extreme measures will be very, very rare, but there ARE
people who openly claim that they will kill newbies on sight,
just for the hell of it (like Death Knights.) I can easily
envision situations where Origin's sanctions against such
people are the only way for them to keep many others paying.
--
Daermonestroer Dragon (min...@ix.netcom.com)
(dani...@cs.umass.edu)
o
//
O-==(UDIC)==-HXXXXXXXX>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>=-
\\
o
Michael Carmack
Glenn Hiscock (ly...@netcom.ca) wrote:
: That is insane. I don't agree with playerkillers, but your oppinion here is
: ridiculous, especially for the final version, when users are paying! The
: customer is always right, and in UO they should be allowed to do what they
: want. Fortunatley, players(like yourself) can deal with menaces like this
: because they too can do what they want. If a PKiller arises, deal with it
: like a medieval nation would, hunt him down and kill him! This bit about
: cancelling accounts, and monitoring actions is just unfair, impossible, and
: stupid.
Hardly insane; it's precendented my most major ISPs in the country. When
someone using their service beings abusing that service in such a manner
that the majority of the other users suffer, or the reputation of the
service in general suffers, then some sort of proactive measure against
the offendor by the service is totally acceptable. Don't tell me you've
never heard of an ISP cancelling someone's internet account for
broadcasting spam ads, or posting really offensive and off-topic material
to newsgroups, or any number of other breaches of netiquette.
It would be exactly the same in an online game, although the etiquette of
such a world has yet to be solidly defined. If too many PKillers start
slashing their way through Britannia, UOL will undoubtedly lose customers
who don't want to deal with that sort of childish behavior. Even worse,
they may get a reputation in forums such as this for having too many
PKillers, in which case they may not even get potential customers to try
the service!
As I've stated several times, players being killed by players will always
happen. But setting some sort of watchdog program to catch true PKillers
while letting the probable legitimate player killings go unobserved is not
an insane idea.
Michael Carmack
Victor (min...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Actually, if you read the official FAQ, you would have noticed
: that Origin made a special provision for chronic PKillers. That
: is the case exactly because we are paying -- they would not
: want to risk many disgruntled paying customer quitting just
: because some asshole is getting an ego boost.
Oh, I haven't seen that. That's good news, and they seem to be doing it
for the exact reasons I've stated.
Alexei S. Kambalov
Michael Carmack wrote:
>
> Darren Rhodes (darren...@dial.pipex.com) wrote:
> : On 9 Oct 1996 13:26:20 -0400, mcar...@freenet.columbus.oh.us (Michael
> : Carmack) wrote:
>
> : >My personal fear is that the PKillers and the PKiller-hunters are going to
> : >get in the way of the rest of us having a fantastic experience. I hope
> : >I'm proven wrong.
>
> : Don't be too hasty to rebuke the P-Ker's, because IMHO they too have
> : their place in a world of virtue and faith, because there will always
> : be those who will follow the paths of chaos!!
>
> Nope, reread my post. A PKiller is not role-playing, thus he is not
> role-playing a chaotic character. He is just killing a player because
> it's more fun to kill a real person than it is to kill an NPC or a monster.
> That's not chaos at all, at least not by any RPG's definition of
> "chaos" that I've played. It's a projection of external attitudes into the
> online world, which I personally do not like.
>
> As I stated, killing players is fine within the context of role-playing.
> I plan to kill players and be killed by players; it's part of
> role-playing.
> ========================================================================
> "In sports, it's not who wins or | Mike Carmack
> loses; it's how drunk you get." | Vulcan Dragon -==(UDIC)==-
> - Homer Simpson | mcar...@freenet.columbus.oh.us
and Hunters. In fact, I plan to become a Hunter. I also accept the fact
that players can and will die at the hands of other players, whether the
killer is a PKiller out for fun, a Hunter out for justice, or any other
player ROLE-PLAYING.
--
Alexei S. Kambalov "Althas Dragon" -==(UDIC)==-
"Ego?! I don't NEED an ego!"
Visit my homepage at http://www.duke.edu/~ask2/
Britannian Dragon
> : because they too can do what they want. If a PKiller arises, deal with it
> : like a medieval nation would, hunt him down and kill him! This bit about
I agree - do it diplomatically.. Go and hire the local guild/get your
comrades-in-arms together and slay the foe..
> Hardly insane; it's precendented my most major ISPs in the country. When
True, most muds tend to blacklist/siteban pk'ers, but then again, most
muds don't generally charge for their service. How about an NPC marshal
service reminiscent of the US Marshals crossed with the Britannian
Guards (or mud cityguards for that matter..)? A group of impossibly
strong NPCs that goes after PK'ers, if they can survive, the PK'er can
stay.. if they die, better luck next time...
> It would be exactly the same in an online game, although the etiquette of
> such a world has yet to be solidly defined. If too many PKillers start
> slashing their way through Britannia, UOL will undoubtedly lose customers
> who don't want to deal with that sort of childish behavior. Even worse,
This may be the case, but then again, it could also get UO a reputation
for being the most REALISTIC medieval environment.. Even in good ol' D&D
there's the EVIL character.. I think it's naive to believe that everyone
that will be playing UO is going to be 'dudley do-right' - after all,
who here hasn't heard Iolo question their virtue while playing the
regular games??
> they may get a reputation in forums such as this for having too many
> PKillers, in which case they may not even get potential customers to try
> the service!
This may be as well, but there are several MUDs that allow PK and don't
seem to have a problem regulating it.. It's sort of the David vs.
Goliath principle - the little guy always seems to overcome the big bad
guy..
Think of the possibilities..
An assassin's guild that kills players.. bad idea? nay.. reality.. who
hasn't been snubbed by some holier-than-thou player on a mud when they
were a newbie? This would provide a resource for players to hunt down
the selfish dogs (for the right price, of course) But the guild would
get pretty ticked at non-members performing assassinations as well, now
you've got the guild AND the guards after the PK'ers..
A vigilante guild that hunts down PK'ers.. got someone after you? hire a
mercenary (team if needed) to get them back..
In either case, the guilds are comprised of Players, and since the
bounty/reward/fee has already been paid, the job exists (as a quest)
EVEN IF THE PLAYER DIES.. after all, they may not even know the player
died, so as far as they know, they're hired to kill a specific
individual.. Mission's not complete until the "customer" relieves them
of responsibility, or the job is done (by the guild, a monster, or
anyone else..)
The Britannian Dragon/UDIC
Eager Dragon
Here is my problem. I hope you all think about this.
The problem of abusing players:
If we like a game, it is completely stupid to put the game in jeopardy. If
too many players get trashed, then there will be no new players and the
revenue flow for Origin will stop. This in turn will cause Origin to
shutdown this service, as such we all lose.
So please think a little before you all go around trashing or harassing
other players. Fun is fun but there is always a line that you should not
cross!!!!!
--
Eager Dragon
-==(UDIC)==-
-----------------------------------------------------------
Reinaldo Perez
bor...@ma.ultranet.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
Centurion <cent...@aristotle.net> wrote in article
<325B2D...@aristotle.net>...
> > There is also a concern that the Virtues will be all but lost. I hope
> > that Origin at least distributes some background information with the
> > release of the game so that incoming players that are new to Ultima
> > will at least understand what some of us are talking about. Think
> > about the amount of people that will feel better about playing a game
> > knowing that there are thousands of players who believe in the
> > Virtues, or who at least try to follow them in some fashion. With
> > several players claiming strict adherence to them, new players cannot
> > help but come in contact with kinder souls from time to time.
>
> Yech. Lets not shove morality down peoples throats; especially if its
> just a game. UOL will be an opportunity to create a fantasy persona
> different from your real self. To be a player-killer sounds like fun to
> me. To be a real killer does not. To adopt the virtues of a GAME seems
> reprehensible to me, even if they do seem Ok. I wouldn't want to give
> Ultima a religious quality.
>
Mithra
Eager Dragon wrote:
>
> Here is my problem. I hope you all think about this.
>
> The problem of abusing players:
> If we like a game, it is completely stupid to put the game in jeopardy. If
> too many players get trashed, then there will be no new players and the
> revenue flow for Origin will stop. This in turn will cause Origin to
> shutdown this service, as such we all lose.
>
> So please think a little before you all go around trashing or harassing
> other players. Fun is fun but there is always a line that you should not
> cross!!!!!
Which line? Oh, the one that delineates the town from the countryside.
Players in towns will have protection, which is where people who dont
like
to fight will end up staying. ;)
You claim the game would be jeopardized because people will be harrassed
by other players? Au contraire, I would not want to play if I could not!
Why be on the net? If I want to kill NPC's, I'll play U9 or whatever.
The
point of UOL is the interactivity with real people, and that involves
all
the combat, gang warfare, and slander that you'll find in real life.
If I get killed because Im a weak player, that only makes me more
determined to build my character and hunt the other guy down. And the
only way for 'too many' players to get trashed is if everybody trashes
each other, in which case no ones cares. The UOL world will no doubt be
large enough for weaklings to evade the baddies anyway.
Mithra
Richard Ranft
Hmm, I see no reason for senseless violence, but there will doubless be
duels, not to mention plain old bullys. I don't intend to seek out
people and hack 'em up for no apparent reason, but believe me I intend
to role-play a character who will stand up and fight for his honor. If
that means "you wanna step out of town and settle this," so be it.
In addition, I can see no reason for sociopathic behavior and it will
get you nowhere in the long run. Assuredly you will be hunted down by
vigilante groups or bounty hunters and slain for your lack of restraint.
I don't expect the presence of PKillers to cause any harm to the game
because it would be worth a group's time to hunt down the abusive
characters and split the fruits of his ill-gotten plunder.
Thadius Dragon
Patrick Mills
Richard Ranft <ric...@anv.net> wrote in article <3272A7...@anv.net>...
> In addition, I can see no reason for sociopathic behavior and it will
Sociopathic behavior is not inherently voilent. I think you meant to say
pychopathic behavior.
--
------------------------------------
Tezcatlipoca Dragon
-==<UDIC>==-
Patrick Mills
pncm...@txdirect.net
"I don't want the world.
I just want your half."
-They Might Be Giants
Max Wilcox
I see no difference between fighting another player and fighting, for
example, a skeleton. Ofcourse there's going to be players that are going
to want to beat up on other players, and there is no diference between
this and anythin else, except that the character is being controlled by
a player. No one would complain, and then quit playing Ultima with the
problem that the Guardian kills people, so I don't realy see the
diference.
The most off putting aspect of UOL that may well rear it's ugly head,
is the kind of snootyness towards new players. "Oooohhh, I've been
playing since the Beta test, and I'm the leader of so and so guild, so
I've got the right to push you newbies around". It's a bit like the
discussion that's going on at the moment concerning giving ranks to
Dragon members, and I've even read of people suggesting that we test
each new dragon to see their worthyness to enter into the Dragons. It is
this sort of thing that will turn prospective players away from the
game, rather than the odd player who goes around fighting others.
If the FAQ is to be beleaved, a character will be resurected after
dying anyway, so it's not as if one has to start over.
This isn't to say that I think guilds (and other similar kinds of
belief systems) are a bad idea, they can be quite fun, but when they are
forced upon prospective players, that is when things can go slightly
wrong.
Anyway, that's my rant for today.
-Max Wilcox
greg
> duels, not to mention plain old bullys. I don't intend to seek out
> people and hack 'em up for no apparent reason, but believe me I intend
> to role-play a character who will stand up and fight for his honor. If
> that means "you wanna step out of town and settle this," so be it.
> vigilante groups or bounty hunters and slain for your lack of restraint.
> I don't expect the presence of PKillers to cause any harm to the game
> because it would be worth a group's time to hunt down the abusive
> characters and split the fruits of his ill-gotten plunder.
>
> Thadius Dragon
there you get groups of psychopaths who think it's cool
to go around tourturing other plyaers
guilds like "cirlce of evil" the "trouture" guild etc.
let's just hope thta there is some other force to balence them.
Steve Orcutt, Jr.
> Richard Ranft wrote (at least I think it was him, hard to tell from all
the previous messages carried over):
> you've obviously never been on a mud recently...
> there you get groups of psychopaths who think it's cool
> to go around tourturing other plyaers
> guilds like "cirlce of evil" the "trouture" guild etc.
> let's just hope thta there is some other force to balence them.
>
After reading the F***heads guild stories, I think they might like to rock
these psychopaths you speak of just a little bit. <G>.
My experience in Meridian 59 was that if there was a PKer on a rampage,
most people crowded indoors to complain about it, rather than go out there
and tag the psycho down. Of course, sometimes it was quite fun, for the
hunted as well as the hunter, but there were times when it got old.
Especially after everyone started thinking they could be the next infamous
outlaw. You see there was a bug in the software that allowed anyone with a
vampire wand, or who practiced Qor spells to "vamp" NPC's in the cities and
pump their hp up in the high hundreds. Most of the veteran players had
60-80 hp and they had been playing forever. Hardly a match for a 200+ hp
killer, but we went after them anyway.
Still, it did get old. Especially for those who had just hit 30 hp (in
Meridian 59 you can't normally attack or be attacked by other players until
you hit 30 hp) and found themselves being backstabbed to death by 200+hp
PKers.
Of course, things evened out a bit after we discovered the healing wand bug
. . . <G>.
Rest assured that there will be PKers, there will be PK Hunters, and then
there will those who just want to hack away at rabbits. I think there will
be some sort of balance.
Dakyon Lore Dragon ==(UDIC)==
greg
Steve Orcutt, Jr. wrote:
>
> > Richard Ranft wrote
it was me, i'll own up to it
> > you've obviously never been on a mud recently...
> > there you get groups of psychopaths who think it's cool
> > to go around tourturing other plyaers
> > guilds like "cirlce of evil" the "trouture" guild etc.
> > let's just hope thta there is some other force to balence them.
> >
>
> After reading the F***heads guild stories, I think they might like to rock
> these psychopaths you speak of just a little bit. <G>.
>
> My experience in Meridian 59 was that if there was a PKer on a rampage,
> most people crowded indoors to complain about it, rather than go out there
> and tag the psycho down. Of course, sometimes it was quite fun, for the
> hunted as well as the hunter, but there were times when it got old.
> Especially after everyone started thinking they could be the next infamous
> outlaw.
<snip>
> Rest assured that there will be PKers, there will be PK Hunters, and then
> there will those who just want to hack away at rabbits. I think there will
> be some sort of balance.
>
> Dakyon Lore Dragon ==(UDIC)==
well, you know the problem is that every 13 year old who thinks they can
be the next jessi james gangs up (read the serious pkillers page,
these guys want "newbie" grounds to be theres. from what i under stand
from origin, these lands will be directly controlled by LB, <G> wonder
where all those fanatical knights, guards and PC's came from? <EG>)
and tried to be that way. Sure it's fun the first HUNDRED times..
but unless they are actually smart (some are) it's not fun.
however, if you get someone of the OLD SCHOOL gameing ideals, then
hell, it's sherlock holmes and moriarty all over again, and that
IS fun!
but then again, moriarty wasn't out to "kill" people, he had much
HIGHER goals in mind.
and he didn't take it personally when you stoped him, he just went right
back to thinking up great new schemes.
trouble is that most pkiller psychophants are just board 13(or 13 year
old mentality, like my step-brother) who like to kill other people.
<shrug> hopefully there will be some serious ass whoping if they try
to make a hit on LB:) or the library guild (which i approve of)
just another one of my 2 cents.
Michael Carmack
Max Wilcox (s33...@student.uq.edu.au) wrote:
: I see no difference between fighting another player and fighting, for
: example, a skeleton.
Depends on how you look at it. The skeleton was placed there for no other
reason than to try and kill. It will *always* be trying to kill *you*.
Players aren't like that; they may just want you to leave them alone.
: The most off putting aspect of UOL that may well rear it's ugly head,
: is the kind of snootyness towards new players. "Oooohhh, I've been
: playing since the Beta test, and I'm the leader of so and so guild, so
: I've got the right to push you newbies around".
Call me crazy, but I don't expect that to happen. The guilds are
organizations created by players, not by Origin. If the leader of a guild
wants to boss his guild-members around, fine. The rest of us don't have
to care.
Besides, some of us have been playing since the pre-alpha test before
there were any guilds! So we have the right to push the guilds around! ;-)
: If the FAQ is to be beleaved, a character will be resurected after
: dying anyway, so it's not as if one has to start over.
According to LB on the MSN chat transcript, dead characters will become
ghosts. No mention as to whether you can be revived or if you have to
start over if you get tired of being a ghost.