Romero: why he is really leaving id.
rj
IMO. Romero is leaving id because he has an ego the size of
Alaska. And guess what? People actually now know who is the
brains behind id. Carmack. Without Carmack there would be no
Quake, or doom, or any other program they have recently worked
on. Romero received MUCH of the limelight for doom/doom2 because
he was THE mouthpiece, the showman, the marketing person for the
game. His ego was large enough for him to put his own face in
doom2, get a grip John.
Face it, Romero is now second string to Carmack, and he cannot
handle it. Everyone knows who does what at id, and from the
looks of it, Romero doesn't do SHIT anymore. And now that everyone
knows it, it is time for him to leave so he can once again be head
cheese. The easiest and the most permanent way is at his own company.
New from Romero Inc: 3D Pong, with 50 weapons. Why hit a ball back
and forth when you can just shoot the other player in the head with a
shotgun?
rj
--
sig? I don't need no stinkin sig
Tim Behrendsen
rj <r...@cet.com> wrote in article <C4dCykw8...@cet.com>...
I have to admit, how much do we talk about Romero in this
newsgroup? How much was Romero talked about in reference to
Doom? I used to think Romero did the Doom engine, before I
heard of Carmack.
However, don't discount the influence of his creativity. If
understand the id organization (and I may not), Romero provided a
lot of the spark behind the playability of Doom/Quake. An Engine
is crap without a good game, and a good game is crap without
a good engine.
-- Tim Behrendsen (t...@airshields.com)
Geese Howard
In article <C4dCykw8...@cet.com>, r...@cet.com (rj) wrote:
>IMO. Romero is leaving id because he has an ego the size of
>Alaska. And guess what? People actually now know who is the
>brains behind id. Carmack. Without Carmack there would be no
>Quake, or doom, or any other program they have recently worked
>on. Romero received MUCH of the limelight for doom/doom2 because
>he was THE mouthpiece, the showman, the marketing person for the
>game. His ego was large enough for him to put his own face in
>doom2, get a grip John.
>
>Face it, Romero is now second string to Carmack, and he cannot
>handle it. Everyone knows who does what at id, and from the
>looks of it, Romero doesn't do SHIT anymore. And now that everyone
>knows it, it is time for him to leave so he can once again be head
>cheese. The easiest and the most permanent way is at his own company.
>
>New from Romero Inc: 3D Pong, with 50 weapons. Why hit a ball back
>and forth when you can just shoot the other player in the head with a
>shotgun?
>
I agree completely!
Gholston J James
(alt.games.quake not supported by jove as it hasn't added a new alt group
in years... left in followup line, tho. Nothing here pertains to Quake
Servers, but this thread isn't being spammed there, I have something
related to editing here, so I left editing in... enough blather)
In article <C4dCykw8...@cet.com>, rj (r...@cet.com) wrote:
> IMO. Romero is leaving id because he has an ego the size of
> Alaska. And guess what? People actually now know who is the
> brains behind id. Carmack. Without Carmack there would be no
> Quake, or doom, or any other program they have recently worked
> on. Romero received MUCH of the limelight for doom/doom2 because
> he was THE mouthpiece, the showman, the marketing person for the
> game. His ego was large enough for him to put his own face in
> doom2, get a grip John.
THAT wasn't as bad as rubbing one of the more pathetic limits of the
engine in the player's face. It totally negated suspension of belief, as
the vertical-auto-aim bug doesn't have anything even CLOSE in the real world.
> Face it, Romero is now second string to Carmack, and he cannot
> handle it. Everyone knows who does what at id, and from the
> looks of it, Romero doesn't do SHIT anymore.
WARNING: Many innovative groups/companies have declined rapidly and
permanantly after splits like this one. 8(
Untendable creative arguments is what I've heard... how this will affect
id is unknown, but, best-case scenario, it might double the amount of neat
games by putting out both ideas instead of having Carmack and Romero
fighting each other over irreconcilable and incompatible ideas. I'm not
sure about engine idea differences, tho... Quake's (engine) biggest
shortcoming to me is the limits of its indexed 256 color pallate... if you
want to support 256 color machines, dither the color on the fly or simply
reduce the number of colors for 256 color screens... Grayscale? What was
Romero's position on dropping unindexed support?
I would argue that Romero's idea for Quake was more innovative than what
we got. I'm also kinda miffed I can't pick up the Ogres' chainsaws to use
instead of that dinky little axe...
> And now that everyone
> knows it, it is time for him to leave so he can once again be head
> cheese. The easiest and the most permanent way is at his own company.
It's possible that they might still do some coordination or share
ideas... I don't know what terms they're on right now.
> New from Romero Inc: 3D Pong, with 50 weapons. Why hit a ball back
> and forth when you can just shoot the other player in the head with a
> shotgun?
No, Carmack wanted the shotguns. Romero would have you hack the ball (or
other player) a few times, have him/her/it slowly get back up, wounded, to
try and get you, only for you to finally splatter his/hers/its inner
fluids all over the wall with your axe, as he/she/it was too worn out to
put up a fight... I'm kinda jaded on the hit-point zero/nonzero boolean
fatality method, personally.
It can be done better, preferably crit-based (have HP recover to a point
automatically, to include regaining consiousness after having been at
zero if your opponent didn't fatally crit you, while crits should be hard to
fix, if at all)... QuakeC code for such, anyone? 8)
--
James Gholston, Acting Chair, NT Libertarians
The Democrats are a delusion; the Republicans are a FRAUD!
REALLY cut the budget! REALLY cut taxes! Browne/Jorgensen '96
http://www.HarryBrowne96.org
Steven Stimpson
In article <C4dCykw8...@cet.com>, r...@cet.com says...
>
>IMO. Romero is leaving id because he has an ego the size of
>Alaska. And guess what? People actually now know who is the
>brains behind id. Carmack. Without Carmack there would be no
>Quake, or doom, or any other program they have recently worked
>on. Romero received MUCH of the limelight for doom/doom2 because
>he was THE mouthpiece, the showman, the marketing person for the
>game. His ego was large enough for him to put his own face in
>doom2, get a grip John.
>
>handle it. Everyone knows who does what at id, and from the
>knows it, it is time for him to leave so he can once again be head
>cheese. The easiest and the most permanent way is at his own company.
>
>and forth when you can just shoot the other player in the head with a
>shotgun?
>
>--
>sig? I don't need no stinkin sig
>
I love it! It's true! I thought "What a bummer it would be to find out this
was just a rumor"..But its true, he's really leaving..Which means...
We wont have to shoot his head at the end of quake 2..Which means..Quake 2
wont be an endless stupid maze of outdoor quake 1 levels like doom 2 was..
Which means..The people who REALLY did the hard work for wolf, doom and
quake will finally get the recognition they deserve for the hard work
and endless hours of education it took to develop wolf doom and quake..
Looking forward to some more realistic and mature games from id now that
sportscar johnny is gone.....
Steven
TJ
r...@cet.com (rj) wrote:
>New from Romero Inc: 3D Pong, with 50 weapons. Why hit a ball back
>and forth when you can just shoot the other player in the head with a
>shotgun?
Heh..heh...heh...I tend to agree with you here. Romero isn't the brain
behind Quake, or Doom. He has designed a great deal of levels,
especially in Quake (I think Sandy Peterson did the most of the levels
in Doom 2). But Carmack is the man behind the game engines, and that's
what really matters.
I'm sure id will find somebody else to be their "showman", let's hope
he/she won't hype their games to death in the future. I will still
wait for Quake 2 with as much confidence as before. Damned Romero if
he has screwed up that one. I don't know the reason why he left, but
what counts is that id doesn't need people who can't cooperate. That
said, I still wish Romero luck, in whatever he plans to do next.
TJ
MisterMike
rj <r...@cet.com> wrote in article <C4dCykw8...@cet.com>...
> Face it, Romero is now second string to Carmack, and he cannot
> handle it. Everyone knows who does what at id, and from the
> looks of it, Romero doesn't do SHIT anymore. And now that everyone
> knows it, it is time for him to leave so he can once again be head
> cheese. The easiest and the most permanent way is at his own company.
That's not why. I heard he was forced out because he was dipping into
Carmack's crack stash.
stev
In article <C4dCykw8...@cet.com>, r...@cet.com says...
>
>IMO. Romero is leaving id because he has an ego the size of
>Alaska. And guess what? People actually now know who is the
>brains behind id. Carmack. Without Carmack there would be no
>Quake, or doom, or any other program they have recently worked
>on. Romero received MUCH of the limelight for doom/doom2 because
>he was THE mouthpiece, the showman, the marketing person for the
>game. His ego was large enough for him to put his own face in
>doom2, get a grip John.
>
>handle it. Everyone knows who does what at id, and from the
>looks of it, Romero doesn't do SHIT anymore. And now that everyone
>knows it, it is time for him to leave so he can once again be head
>cheese. The easiest and the most permanent way is at his own company.
>
>and forth when you can just shoot the other player in the head with a
>shotgun?
>
Do you know him or something? You ever worked at or with the guys
at iD? You ever talk to him before? Do you know in person anyone
at iD? Just wondering.
stev
rj
In article <4uephm$c...@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com>, st...@ix.netcom.com (stev) wrote:
>In article <C4dCykw8...@cet.com>, r...@cet.com says...
>>IMO. Romero is leaving id because he has an ego the size of
>Do you know him or something? You ever worked at or with the guys
>at iD? You ever talk to him before? Do you know in person anyone
>at iD? Just wondering.
>stev
Er, IMO stands for In My Opinion in case you missed it.. heh
It is easy to gleam what Romero thinks of himself by reading his
interviews. By his .plan of the past. By sticking his face in
a game. By his previous doom2 matches with people who challenged
him to a modem game (he lost a lot btw).
Adam Williamson
In article <4ue741$j...@noc1.biddeford.com>, Steven Stimpson
<stim...@biddeford.com> writes
>I love it! It's true! I thought "What a bummer it would be to find out this
>was just a rumor"..But its true, he's really leaving..Which means...
> We wont have to shoot his head at the end of quake 2..Which means..Quake 2
>wont be an endless stupid maze of outdoor quake 1 levels like doom 2 was..
>Which means..The people who REALLY did the hard work for wolf, doom and
>quake will finally get the recognition they deserve for the hard work
>and endless hours of education it took to develop wolf doom and quake..
>
wasn't exactly complimentary? Something like "there won't be any more
grandiose statements about our future, all I can promise is my best
efforts"? Heh...
--
Adam Williamson
Memento Mori 2 Level 6
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/themes/mm/mm2.zip
Adam Williamson
In article <4ue0tp$6...@news.orst.edu>, TJ <tor...@alfa.itea.ntnu.no>
writes
>especially in Quake (I think Sandy Peterson did the most of the levels
>in Doom 2). But Carmack is the man behind the game engines, and that's
>
steven thurgood
previously in rec.games.computer.quake.editing Adam Williamson
<Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk> wrote
>Did any also notice how...was it Carmack?...'s finger after Romero left
>wasn't exactly complimentary? Something like "there won't be any more
>grandiose statements about our future, all I can promise is my best
>efforts"? Heh...
Carmack just isn't the Unstoppable Hype Machine that Romero was. Oh
well, I hope that his new companies at least make good games, and stay
on good terms with the rest of id.
-Steve
Jim S Dodge
Geese Howard wrote:
>
> In article <C4dCykw8...@cet.com>, r...@cet.com (rj) wrote:
> >IMO. Romero is leaving id because he has an ego the size of
> >brains behind id. Carmack. Without Carmack there would be no
> >Quake, or doom, or any other program they have recently worked
> >on. Romero received MUCH of the limelight for doom/doom2 because
> >he was THE mouthpiece, the showman, the marketing person for the
> >game. His ego was large enough for him to put his own face in
> >doom2, get a grip John.
> >
> >Face it, Romero is now second string to Carmack, and he cannot
> >handle it. Everyone knows who does what at id, and from the
> >looks of it, Romero doesn't do SHIT anymore. And now that everyone
> >knows it, it is time for him to leave so he can once again be head
> >cheese. The easiest and the most permanent way is at his own company.
> >
> >New from Romero Inc: 3D Pong, with 50 weapons. Why hit a ball back
> >and forth when you can just shoot the other player in the head with a
> >shotgun?
> >
>
> I agree completely!~
I am going to miss John Romero, he may not have done allot of
programming but he created most of the atmosphere. I dont think
Quake (or doom) would have been nearly as scary if it wasnt for
his input. id splitting up kinda sucks :(
imho his levels were the best
IguanaGuy
The Lord Leto II
In article <01bb854f$f56ea3c0$87ee...@timpent.airshields.com> "Tim Behrendsen" <t...@airshields.com> writes:
>rj <r...@cet.com> wrote in article <C4dCykw8...@cet.com>...
>> Alaska. And guess what? People actually now know who is the
>> brains behind id. Carmack. Without Carmack there would be no
>> Quake, or doom, or any other program they have recently worked
>> on. Romero received MUCH of the limelight for doom/doom2 because
>> he was THE mouthpiece, the showman, the marketing person for the
>> game. His ego was large enough for him to put his own face in
>> doom2, get a grip John.
I'm sure his ego had something to do with it. I virtually, however,
credit him with the success of Doom and Doom2 -- he didn't write
the engine, sure, but there's something about him that becomes
prevalent in the games -- it's the style, the finishing touches.
>> Face it, Romero is now second string to Carmack, and he cannot
>> handle it. Everyone knows who does what at id, and from the
>> looks of it, Romero doesn't do SHIT anymore. And now that everyone
>> knows it, it is time for him to leave so he can once again be head
>> cheese. The easiest and the most permanent way is at his own company.
In programming, he's low on the totem pole, and in deathmatch, he's
second to McGee. But I don't think he left because he couldn't
stand being #2.
>> New from Romero Inc: 3D Pong, with 50 weapons. Why hit a ball back
>> and forth when you can just shoot the other player in the head with a
>> shotgun?
>
>I have to admit, how much do we talk about Romero in this
>newsgroup? How much was Romero talked about in reference to
>Doom? I used to think Romero did the Doom engine, before I
>heard of Carmack.
>However, don't discount the influence of his creativity. If
>understand the id organization (and I may not), Romero provided a
>lot of the spark behind the playability of Doom/Quake. An Engine
>is crap without a good game, and a good game is crap without
>a good engine.
Right. Romero's job was very important. He kept things in check.
Right now I'm of the opinion that Carmack is fragged in the head,
and Romero's leaving might leave a little bit of the quality
assurance out of id Software (or Id Software, or ID Software, it's
spelled all three ways! Check license.txt)
************ The Lord Leto II God Emperor of Arrakis *************
* You did one thing wrong * F--A--C--E * You woke up *
* It looked better before * F--G--Bb-D * More -- more! *
* When the headache's gone * E--G#-B--D# * The sun's not *
* Forgot to turn the alarm * Faith No * On -- on! *
* Don't look at me * More * I'm ugly in the morning *
Adam Williamson
In article <10AUG96.03...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU>, The Lord Leto
II <T9...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU> writes
>I'm sure his ego had something to do with it. I virtually, however,
>credit him with the success of Doom and Doom2 -- he didn't write
>the engine, sure, but there's something about him that becomes
>prevalent in the games -- it's the style, the finishing touches.
>
Doom1, and written by John Carmack. Artwork by Adrian Carmack. Levels by
American McGee (I think he was the only designer). Where did Romero come
in?!
The Lord Leto II
In article <Ojp3rnAX...@scss.demon.co.uk> Adam Williamson <Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>
>Did any also notice how...was it Carmack?...'s finger after Romero left
>wasn't exactly complimentary? Something like "there won't be any more
>grandiose statements about our future, all I can promise is my best
>efforts"? Heh...
Also notice Carmack's wording's subtleties: He didn't say "Romero
has left"; he said "Romero is gone". *BIG* difference.
root
Adam Williamson (Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: Romero had pretty much nothing to do with Doom2. The engine was out of
: Doom1, and written by John Carmack. Artwork by Adrian Carmack. Levels by
: American McGee (I think he was the only designer). Where did Romero come
: in?!
You killed him to win the game.
--
__,,,,_
- Tiger (AKA Steven Lang) _ __..-;''`--/'/ /.',-`-.
ti...@ecis.com (`/' ` | \ \ \\ / / / / .-'/`,_
http://www.ecis.com/~tiger /'`\ \ | \ | \| // // / -.,/_,'-,
/<7' ; \ \ | ; ||/ /| | \/ |`-/,/-.,_,/')
And he's watching / _.-, `,-\,__| _-| / \ \/|_/ | '-/.;.\'
us all through the `-` f/ ; / __/ \__ `/ |__/ |
eye of the tiger! `-' | -| =|\_ \ |-' |
__/ /_..-' ` ),' //
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,fL,((__.-'((___..-''\__.',,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
ZU0...@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu
In article <nx8pAaAK...@scss.demon.co.uk>
Adam Williamson <Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk> writes:
>In article <10AUG96.03...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU>, The Lord Leto
>II <T9...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU> writes
>>I'm sure his ego had something to do with it. I virtually, however,
>>credit him with the success of Doom and Doom2 -- he didn't write
>>the engine, sure, but there's something about him that becomes
>>prevalent in the games -- it's the style, the finishing touches.
>>
>Doom1, and written by John Carmack. Artwork by Adrian Carmack. Levels by
>American McGee (I think he was the only designer). Where did Romero come
>in?!
DWANGO and Raven Software (not working FOR them, WITH them on
the Doom Engine that they were using for their product/service).
All this time I could tell that Romero really wanted to do something
bigger than Doom was and Quake is. You could pick out things that
he said in interviews and such that pointed to this. I would
imagine that he got tired of just making the engine and wanted to
get out there and do what Raven did in Heretic/Hexen and Velocity
did in Strife, put a little substance in the game. In about 6
months we'll probably see a RPG based on the Quake engine, complete
with Multiplayer internet support and tons of extra features from
Romero's new studio. Of course, by that time there will be tons
of extra features for FREE on the net with all these Quake-C
gurus that are popping up everywhere (unless Romero plans on
hiring them, hehe) Anyway I hope the break was friendly and I
hope that he's happy with his new company (God knows he has
enough money sitting around to do this).
Andreas
Im not sure but i think Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk (Adam Williamson) said...
>
>In article <10AUG96.03...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU>, The Lord Leto
>II <T9...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU> writes
>>I'm sure his ego had something to do with it. I virtually, however,
>>credit him with the success of Doom and Doom2 -- he didn't write
>>the engine, sure, but there's something about him that becomes
>>prevalent in the games -- it's the style, the finishing touches.
>>
>Romero had pretty much nothing to do with Doom2. The engine was out of
>Doom1, and written by John Carmack. Artwork by Adrian Carmack. Levels by
>American McGee (I think he was the only designer). Where did Romero come
>in?!
I think Romero made parts of doom2(as a level designer), at least he made
the final boss level. I wonder what kind of games he will make in the
future? modern-styled-evil doom games or more like he wanted Quake to be
from the beginning, the medival gods and everything. Guess only time will
tell.
--
Andreas.
"...two roads diverged in a wood, and i took the one less traveled by,
and that has made all the difference."
-R. Frost.
Lawrence
root wrote:
>
> Adam Williamson (Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> : Romero had pretty much nothing to do with Doom2. The engine was out of
> : Doom1, and written by John Carmack. Artwork by Adrian Carmack. Levels by
> : American McGee (I think he was the only designer). Where did Romero come
> : in?!
>
>
Adam Williamson
In article <4ukd8l$u...@news.ecis.com>, root <ro...@ecis.com> writes
>Adam Williamson (Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>: Romero had pretty much nothing to do with Doom2. The engine was out of
>: Doom1, and written by John Carmack. Artwork by Adrian Carmack. Levels by
>: American McGee (I think he was the only designer). Where did Romero come
>: in?!
>
>You killed him to win the game.
>
Wilbur
In article <11AUG96.02...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU>,
The Lord Leto II <T9...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU> wrote:
->In article <Ojp3rnAX...@scss.demon.co.uk> Adam Williamson
<Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk> writes:
->>>
->>Did any also notice how...was it Carmack?...'s finger after Romero left
->>wasn't exactly complimentary? Something like "there won't be any more
->>grandiose statements about our future, all I can promise is my best
->>efforts"? Heh...
->
->Also notice Carmack's wording's subtleties: He didn't say "Romero
->has left"; he said "Romero is gone". *BIG* difference.
->
->************ The Lord Leto II God Emperor of Arrakis *************
->* You did one thing wrong * F--A--C--E * You woke up *
->* It looked better before * F--G--Bb-D * More -- more! *
->* When the headache's gone * E--G#-B--D# * The sun's not *
->* Forgot to turn the alarm * Faith No * On -- on! *
->* Don't look at me * More * I'm ugly in the morning *
Leto,
I've always wanted to say this. You have superb taste in music.
\/\/iLbur
====================================
\/\/iLbur - Protector of the Camel.
"I will not lie."
wil...@citecuf.citec.qld.gov.au
====================================
William Harris
In article <C4dCykw8...@cet.com>, r...@cet.com says...
>IMO. Romero is leaving id because he has an ego the size of
>Alaska. And guess what? People actually now know who is the
>brains behind id. Carmack. Without Carmack there would be no
>Quake, or doom, or any other program they have recently worked
>on.
(groups trimmed)
One can only say that we all must be grateful for the X-files to come to
life: the first documented telepath who can faultlessly diagnose
motivations and the reasons behind people's actions, without knowing
the people in question. I salute you. Personally, it'd be hinda hard
for me to have done this superb detective work on my own, seeing that
I live quite some distance from Texas.
All irony aside, has anything heard anything about Abrash lately?
--
William Harris
YoGrE
> Romero had pretty much nothing to do with Doom2. The engine was out of
> McGee (I think he was the only designer). Where did Romero come in?!
Well, if I am not mistaken, Romero came in on level 30 and his head was
chopped off and impaled on a stake inside the Big Bosses head.
Tom Green
>
>All irony aside, has anything heard anything about Abrash lately?
>--
>William Harris
>
Nope, but I think he sorts out things whioch noone else does:)
Tom Green
On 11 Aug 1996 12:52:11 GMT, andreas....@mailbox.swipnet.se
(Andreas) wrote:
>Im not sure but i think Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk (Adam Williamson) said...
>>
>>In article <10AUG96.03...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU>, The Lord Leto
>>II <T9...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU> writes
>>>I'm sure his ego had something to do with it. I virtually, however,
>>>credit him with the success of Doom and Doom2 -- he didn't write
>>>the engine, sure, but there's something about him that becomes
>>>prevalent in the games -- it's the style, the finishing touches.
>>>
>>Romero had pretty much nothing to do with Doom2. The engine was out of
>>Doom1, and written by John Carmack. Artwork by Adrian Carmack. Levels by
>>American McGee (I think he was the only designer). Where did Romero come
>>in?!
>
>I think Romero made parts of doom2(as a level designer), at least he made
>the final boss level. I wonder what kind of games he will make in the
>future? modern-styled-evil doom games or more like he wanted Quake to be
>from the beginning, the medival gods and everything. Guess only time will
>tell.
>
>--
>Andreas.
>"...two roads diverged in a wood, and i took the one less traveled by,
> and that has made all the difference."
> -R. Frost.
>
From a book I read he had the feeling that Quake would be a fight for
Justice and that the players can teleport to differnet dimensions,
"something akin to what D&D is all about". He also wants better AI and
I suppose maybe iD will be wnating to use multylplayer human vs Human
while Romero is a fan of Human vs Computer.
The interseting thing is that he says" Most importantly, we must also
share a vison and be like-minded".
Hope this helps
Tom
Tom Green
>In article <10AUG96.03...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU>, The Lord Leto
>II <T9...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU> writes
>>I'm sure his ego had something to do with it. I virtually, however,
>>credit him with the success of Doom and Doom2 -- he didn't write
>>the engine, sure, but there's something about him that becomes
>>prevalent in the games -- it's the style, the finishing touches.
>>
>Romero had pretty much nothing to do with Doom2. The engine was out of
>Doom1, and written by John Carmack. Artwork by Adrian Carmack. Levels by
>American McGee (I think he was the only designer). Where did Romero come
>in?!
>--
>Adam Williamson
>Memento Mori 2 Level 6
>ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/themes/mm/mm2.zip
This si too do with Doom1, Romero did company helping with the Doom
engine.
What about Sandy Peterson. Romero designed the first episode in Doom1
(except E1M8), and Sandy and I quote said" John's levels are riddled
with special vantage points, cunning secret areas, and multilevel
action".
All the best
Tom
Ian
tor...@alfa.itea.ntnu.no (TJ) wrote:
>r...@cet.com (rj) wrote:
>>New from Romero Inc: 3D Pong, with 50 weapons. Why hit a ball back
>>and forth when you can just shoot the other player in the head with a
>>shotgun?
>Heh..heh...heh...I tend to agree with you here. Romero isn't the brain
>behind Quake, or Doom. He has designed a great deal of levels,
>especially in Quake (I think Sandy Peterson did the most of the levels
>in Doom 2). But Carmack is the man behind the game engines, and that's
>what really matters.
Nol, actually, it's not. Remember, Heretic and Doom 2 work on almost the same
engine, so does Strife, but they're all VERY different games in terms of how
they play and how popular they were. Carmack made the engine, but Carmack was
_not_ the main guy behind the creative stuff. From what I know, Carmack loves
the Doom idea. He was the one who made thems scrap the original Quake ideas,
from the fantasy orientation to the Hammer of Thor to the exchanging items in
deathmatch, in favor of Doom 3. Reading between the lines, Carmack will get
his way and Quake 2 will be Doom 4. Then the next game they do will be Doom 5,
et cetera. The engines will keep on improving, but the basis of the games will
stay the same. Eventually, this does get pretty boring, especially when the
hardware advancements make it possible to innovate in new ways - for example,
Unreal's more "realistic" levels taking advantage of 3D, rather than Quake's
levels which were basically all maze-type places.
>I'm sure id will find somebody else to be their "showman", let's hope
>he/she won't hype their games to death in the future. I will still
>wait for Quake 2 with as much confidence as before. Damned Romero if
>he has screwed up that one. I don't know the reason why he left, but
>what counts is that id doesn't need people who can't cooperate.
"Can't cooperate"? Sounds like Romero and Carmack had conflicting visions
about what Quake would be like. I preferred Romero's ideas. However, he _did_
cooperate, as testified to the fact that Quake came out a neat game, he's
leaving now because Quake is done and he wants to do his own stuff.
Ian
The Lord Leto II <T9...@ACADEMIC.NEMOSTATE.EDU> wrote:
>Right. Romero's job was very important. He kept things in check.
>Right now I'm of the opinion that Carmack is fragged in the head,
>and Romero's leaving might leave a little bit of the quality
>assurance out of id Software (or Id Software, or ID Software, it's
>spelled all three ways! Check license.txt)
Id is also getting competition for the first time. They succeeded using a
small company and a great engine, with shareware, and now other companies are
following the example. And the truth of it is, they have creative visions and
programming talent every bit as good as the people at Id. Duke Nukem 3D,
whether you enjoyed it or not, was a well-made game with a good engine.
Unreal, coming out sometime after Quake and probably being a better game in
many ways, will also have a great engine, a good premise, and probably will
fit together solidly as a game. Also from a previously-low-key, small company.
And unlike the past, these games have their own, unique engines and styling,
rather than obviously copying off some previous Id game.
Adam Williamson
In article <3210be2a...@news.dungeon.com>, Tom Green
<to...@girona.dungeon.com> writes
Romero was bad, just that he had nothing to do with Doom2, practically.
His levels are absolutely excellent, Doom E1 are still the best levels
Id ever made for a Doom engine game.
TJ
nstn...@fox.nstn.ca (Ian) wrote:
>Nol, actually, it's not. Remember, Heretic and Doom 2 work on almost the same
>engine, so does Strife, but they're all VERY different games in terms of how
>they play and how popular they were.
I was talking (and thinking) solely about the current state of id
software. Heretic and Strife has basically nothing do with id, and
definitely nothing to do with John Carmack (other than that it's his
engine they're based on). Besides, would you argue if I said that
Doom2 is the best of the three games you mentioned?
Romero had not much to do with Doom2, although I will now rush to say
that I'm not having ANYTHING against Mr. Romero. He's made excellent
Doom and Quake levels, and he's a very competent idea-maker and level
designer, but _he's_ the one who left, so I have to approach the issue
based on that.
>Carmack made the engine, but Carmack was
>_not_ the main guy behind the creative stuff. From what I know, Carmack loves
>the Doom idea. He was the one who made thems scrap the original Quake ideas,
>from the fantasy orientation to the Hammer of Thor to the exchanging items in
>deathmatch, in favor of Doom 3. Reading between the lines, Carmack will get
>his way and Quake 2 will be Doom 4. Then the next game they do will be Doom 5,
>et cetera. The engines will keep on improving, but the basis of the games will
>stay the same.
And why can't you let Carmack make "Doom 4" or "Doom 5", if you want
to call it that, when there are other comanies (Raven, LucasArt,
3DRealms etc., maybe even Romero's new stuff) that make _other_ type
of games? I'm addicted to Doom-type games with the "old thrustworthy
shotgun", so I don't know if I could manage to live without it :)
>Eventually, this does get pretty boring, especially when the
>hardware advancements make it possible to innovate in new ways - for example,
>Unreal's more "realistic" levels taking advantage of 3D, rather than Quake's
>levels which were basically all maze-type places.
Well...they certainly had their share of multilevel design that took
great advantage of the 3D engine, IMO.
>"Can't cooperate"? Sounds like Romero and Carmack had conflicting visions
>about what Quake would be like. I preferred Romero's ideas. However, he _did_
>cooperate, as testified to the fact that Quake came out a neat game, he's
>leaving now because Quake is done and he wants to do his own stuff.
Romero did finsih Quake along with the others, no doubt, but not
unitil Carmack (or maybe Wilbur?) throwed him and the others into the
now famous "war room", where they got Quake finished. I don't have the
impression that "excellent team-work" was on the agenda there at the
time. But I really don't know anything more about it, other than to
speculate.
TJ
John Caporale
> >Heh..heh...heh...I tend to agree with you here. Romero isn't the brain
> >behind Quake, or Doom. He has designed a great deal of levels,
> >especially in Quake (I think Sandy Peterson did the most of the levels
> >in Doom 2). But Carmack is the man behind the game engines, and that's
> >what really matters.
> they play and how popular they were. Carmack made the engine, but Carmack
was
> _not_ the main guy behind the creative stuff. From what I know, Carmack
loves
> the Doom idea. He was the one who made thems scrap the original Quake
ideas,
> from the fantasy orientation to the Hammer of Thor to the exchanging
items in
> deathmatch, in favor of Doom 3. Reading between the lines, Carmack will
get
> his way and Quake 2 will be Doom 4. Then the next game they do will be
Doom 5,
> "Can't cooperate"? Sounds like Romero and Carmack had conflicting visions
> about what Quake would be like. I preferred Romero's ideas. However, he
_did_
> cooperate, as testified to the fact that Quake came out a neat game, he's
> leaving now because Quake is done and he wants to do his own stuff.
Personally, I stand by Carmack's idea. Having only two weapons, a Hammer,
and a Hellgate Cube, is not my idea of fun. Oh yeah, and a little
correction on the Doom 3, 4, etc. titles. Since Doom was essentially an
upgraded Wolfenstein, and there were 2 Wolfenstein adventures, Quake is
essentially Wolf3d 5. =) Yes, it's true that Romero did have a lot of
creative input on Doom, and he did design a lot of Quake levels. Start,
E1M1, all of E2, E3M1, and END were all designed by him. He was a busy
guy. However, Dave Taylor (someone else who left id Software) basically
said that Carmack *is* id, and Romero isn't that big a deal in the long
run. Everybody has ideas, not everyone can make an engine that looks like
Quake.
--
Joseph Caporale
j.cap...@worldnet.att.net
Adam Williamson
John Romero has confirmed that the project leader of Prey, Tom Hall, has
left 3D Realms to work for Dream Design. Heh :)
--
Adam Williamson
steven thurgood
>left 3D Realms to work for Dream Design. Heh :)
Life just gets better...
-Steve
Andrew Laska
Hmm...
It is obvious after reading this thread that not many of the posters are
aware of the goals and influences of commercial software designers. Notice I
did not say "programmer." I said "designer." There is a big difference. Most
peoples posts were from a players perspective.
The whole process of managing and designing a piece of software is not as
simple minded as many of the posters make it out to be. For example, the
marketing and commercial end of the process is probably a big influence to
Romero yet mention as such is nearly absent from this thread.
It is simply too simple minded to say that Romero left because he had a big
ego. If he felt that id was not going to go in directions that he thought it
should than he *should* leave. He has enough influence and money to gather
resources to make products that he wants to. So why shouldn't he? More power to
him and good luck!!!
I will be excited to see what he produces.
--
Andrew Laska
.
http://www.wallstreet.net
http://www.aikido.org/dallas/index.html
.
**************************************
"I don't have to know an answer.
I don't have to. I don't feel frightened by not knowing things...
By being lost in the mysterious universe without having any purpose which is
the way it really is as far as I can tell...possibly.
It doesn't frighten me." -- Richard Feynman
Jim Grossl
ste...@thurgood.demon.co.uk (steven thurgood) wrote:
>Life just gets better...
>-Steve
Not to mention 'puter games.
***********************************
| Jim Grossl |
| jg...@micron.net |
| Boise, Idaho USA |
| AKA 'Spiff' on NetQuake |
***********************************
NATAS6
Things said about John Romero's departure by J. Carmack:
Romero had been on a sort of probation because of not getting behind
projects and not pulling his weight. He was on final probation
toward the end of Quake.
He basically had his resignation handed to him.
They parted on okay terms though. This seemed to be the case as Carmack,
Cash, and Romero were talking together for a while inside
about various things. Seemed friendly.
Andreas
Im not sure but i think jan...@adam.com.au (Bludlust) said...
>Unreals levels???? YOU'VE SEEN UNREAL??????????
>I have an ancient Alpha Version, which looked promising, but the levels
>looked like my Notepad(tm) Quake levels! <mind you, the fact that the
>walls didn't pixelate at close range was impressive> I know we are close
>to unreal, but I want it now!
I have'nt seen the engine demo, most people said it sucked anyway. But the
Monster-alpha(As opposed to the Engine-alpha) animation stuff was sort of
cool. But my favorite part of the Unreal illegal-alphas are the .mod's(or
S3M's or whatever they are) that came with the monster alpha, they were way
cool, really freaky moody music. (Still have'em somehwere, deleted the
otherstuff though)
Bludlust
Ian wrote:
>
> tor...@alfa.itea.ntnu.no (TJ) wrote:
>
> >r...@cet.com (rj) wrote:
>
> >>New from Romero Inc: 3D Pong, with 50 weapons. Why hit a ball back
> >>and forth when you can just shoot the other player in the head with a
> >>shotgun?
>
> >behind Quake, or Doom. He has designed a great deal of levels,
> >especially in Quake (I think Sandy Peterson did the most of the levels
> >in Doom 2). But Carmack is the man behind the game engines, and that's
> >what really matters.
>
> engine, so does Strife, but they're all VERY different games in terms of how
> _not_ the main guy behind the creative stuff. From what I know, Carmack loves
> the Doom idea. He was the one who made thems scrap the original Quake ideas,
> from the fantasy orientation to the Hammer of Thor to the exchanging items in
> deathmatch, in favor of Doom 3. Reading between the lines, Carmack will get
> his way and Quake 2 will be Doom 4. Then the next game they do will be Doom 5,
> hardware advancements make it possible to innovate in new ways - for example,
> Unreal's more "realistic" levels taking advantage of 3D, rather than Quake's
> levels which were basically all maze-type places.
>
> >he/she won't hype their games to death in the future. I will still
> >wait for Quake 2 with as much confidence as before. Damned Romero if
> >he has screwed up that one. I don't know the reason why he left, but
> >what counts is that id doesn't need people who can't cooperate.
>
> about what Quake would be like. I preferred Romero's ideas. However, he _did_
> cooperate, as testified to the fact that Quake came out a neat game, he's
> leaving now because Quake is done and he wants to do his own stuff.
Kayos
> i REALLY don't know what you're talking about, Doom2 was much better
> than doom1, not as original maybe, but the levels were so much better
> for deathmatch, and afterall thats all that really counts isn't it?
Whew... i dunno. I prefer the atmosphere in Doom1... in Doom2 it actually
FEELS commercial.
And the music in Doom1 was way cool compared to Doom2. If u liked Doom2
level 1 dmatch, check out my new lev on stomped.. KYSENTRY.ZIP
Its basically converted to quake (from memory) and suped up... have fun
fraggin.
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