Thy Flesh Consumed
Martin Read
saving" trick.
I'd forgotten exactly how dire it was.
What the hell drugs were they on when they wrote a level, with a grand
total of ten blue potions and no stimpacks or medikits, that's crawling
with sergeants (E4M1)?
m.
--
\_\/_/| Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\ / | we are few / and far between / i was thinking about her skin / love
\/ | is a many splintered thing / don't be afraid now / just walk on in
------+ -- Sisters of Mercy, "Ribbons"
Led
> What the hell drugs were they on when they wrote
> a level, with a grand total of ten blue potions and
> no stimpacks or medikits, that's crawling with
> sergeants (E4M1)?
Uh, yeah. It's always been my opinion that E4M1 is
way too hard for the first map of a new Episode.
Still, it is possible to get through alive, and leave the
map in better shape than when you entered:
http://classicdoom.com/d1demos.htm#e4m1b
(And hey, if *I* can do it... ;-)
Happy Dooming,
--Led
Support for console and PC Doom games
http://ClassicDOOM.com
Stephen Howe
> saving" trick.
>
> I'd forgotten exactly how dire it was.
>
> What the hell drugs were they on when they wrote a level, with a grand
> total of ten blue potions and no stimpacks or medikits, that's crawling
> with sergeants (E4M1)?
I can do it every time without saving and I am not a doom God. It is just
method.
If I am cautious and extremely lucky I exit with about 75-80+% health, less
cautious down to 50-60% health, I have to be behaved stupid to exit with
20%-40%. I usually lose a bit of health grabbing the rocket and going for
the 2 shells from the secret chamber next to the rocket. The 1st Baron (and
other creatures) can be lulled out by pressing your face near the vertical
bars. If your lucky, some imps will fire at you and hit him weakening him.
The remaining 4 Barons, Spectres and Imps can be lulled out if you rapidly
enter the teleporter-like hole and press on one of the lights and retreat to
castle-like room behind the bars. A few empty fist punches will pull the
Barons, Spectres & Imps out. Behind the bars, any Baron fire can cause
Spectre fights. Then with the 12 rockets, all 4 Barons can be disposed of.
Levels E4M2 and E4M9 have a much tougher initial start in that you are
forced to fight waves of monsters on UV. After that, they settle down.
E4M2 and E4M6 are my favourites. But then John Romero, ID's Head Sadist
then, created these :-). E4M1 and E4M9 are good levels. I like E4M5 for its
architecture alone. The only real poor level IMO is E4M3.
Stephen Howe
Raymond Martineau
<mpr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>I recently spun Episode 4 up for a bash at the "beating levels without
>saving" trick.
>
>I'd forgotten exactly how dire it was.
>
>What the hell drugs were they on when they wrote a level, with a grand
>total of ten blue potions and no stimpacks or medikits, that's crawling
>with sergeants (E4M1)?
>
Ugh... I hate that level. Been trying to finish it on Nightmare...
I've gotten 100% kills and secrets for my submission to the DHT6, while it
was still around. Don't know where it is, let alone if it's still up, but
it can be found somewhere. It's my first demo submission proving that Doom
isn't all that challenging as it could be.
This is all more challenging, considering that there is a mandatory NUKAGE
RUN if you want to get all secrets.
At least there's health at the beginning of the next level.
Martin Read
>Levels E4M2 and E4M9 have a much tougher initial start in that you are
>forced to fight waves of monsters on UV. After that, they settle down.
I count six cacodemons on E4M2 that constitute immediate threats, plus
the two sergeants right next to you. I dare say if it was a D2 level it
would have been heaving with bloody chaingunners.
E4M9's quite fluffy by comparison; by the time you get there, you're
decently armed.
>E4M2 and E4M6 are my favourites. But then John Romero, ID's Head Sadist
>then, created these :-). E4M1 and E4M9 are good levels. I like E4M5 for its
>architecture alone. The only real poor level IMO is E4M3.
E4M2 has a very tiresome "trick key" feature - telefragging a cyberdemon -
that's fun *once*. The rest of the level's not terribly good either.
Nice architecture in the central chamber, but that's about all it's got
going for it.
100% kills and secrets from scratch on E2M4 is *still* fun. (Actually, I
think E2M3 is more of a challenge.)
Martin Read
>Ugh... I hate that level. Been trying to finish it on Nightmare...
>
>I've gotten 100% kills and secrets for my submission to the DHT6, while it
>was still around. Don't know where it is, let alone if it's still up, but
>it can be found somewhere. It's my first demo submission proving that Doom
>isn't all that challenging as it could be.
>
>This is all more challenging, considering that there is a mandatory NUKAGE
>RUN if you want to get all secrets.
The nukage run to get all the secrets on E4M1 costs about 2 health and 2
armour on ultraviolence. I don't touch Nightmare; life's too short :)
>At least there's health at the beginning of the next level.
Yeah. Shame it's on the other side of the sergeants and in the field of
fire of the tomatoes :)
Stephen Howe
> the two sergeants right next to you.
You can stand behind the first sergeant and he will be hit by the imps or
cacos
and then leave him to lose; get the shotgun and shotgun box of ammo and then
do the same for the second seargent and then leave him to lose. It is then
time to take out the cacos. I usually find that with a bit of manoeuvring
you can arrange for the imps to hit some of the cacos. Sometimes the cacos
can be overwhelming. Not enough ammo can be a problem as well until you don
the radiation suit and get the ammo in the ooze.
> E4M2 has a very tiresome "trick key" feature - telefragging a cyberdemon -
> that's fun *once*. The rest of the level's not terribly good either.
> Nice architecture in the central chamber, but that's about all it's got
> going for it.
I find the monsters are decently arranged and I think there are decent
challenges. Some of the Barons are surprises. Finding the blue armour and
raising the central area is another trick to this level. Taking out the 12
Barons from scratch on E4M2 is hard for a beginner.
> 100% kills and secrets from scratch on E2M4 is *still* fun. (Actually, I
> think E2M3 is more of a challenge.)
I made a mistake on my previous message. I meant E4M4 is the dullest level
out of the whole E4 series. E4M3 is very good from scratch and the initial
wave of attacks could be tough without the invulnerability. After a while it
settles down once you have taken the stairs going down.
But did you make a mistake? Do you really mean E2M4 and E2M3?
Stephen Howe
Raymond Martineau
<mpr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>bk...@freenet.carleton.ca (Raymond Martineau) wrote:
>>Ugh... I hate that level. Been trying to finish it on Nightmare...
>>
>>I've gotten 100% kills and secrets for my submission to the DHT6, while it
>>was still around. Don't know where it is, let alone if it's still up, but
>>it can be found somewhere. It's my first demo submission proving that Doom
>>isn't all that challenging as it could be.
>>
>>This is all more challenging, considering that there is a mandatory NUKAGE
>>RUN if you want to get all secrets.
>
>The nukage run to get all the secrets on E4M1 costs about 2 health and 2
>armour on ultraviolence. I don't touch Nightmare; life's too short :)
That sounds a bit better than what I've had previously, although I
generally needed to use the secret before I have the ammunition to take out
approaching spectres. Looks like something that could make things a bit
easier.
>
>>At least there's health at the beginning of the next level.
>
>Yeah. Shame it's on the other side of the sergeants and in the field of
>fire of the tomatoes :)
In Doom, Friendly Fire isn't. :)
Martin Read
>> 100% kills and secrets from scratch on E2M4 is *still* fun. (Actually, I
>> think E2M3 is more of a challenge.)
>
>I made a mistake on my previous message. I meant E4M4 is the dullest level
>out of the whole E4 series. E4M3 is very good from scratch and the initial
>wave of attacks could be tough without the invulnerability. After a while it
>settles down once you have taken the stairs going down.
>
>But did you make a mistake? Do you really mean E2M4 and E2M3?
God's teeth, *YES*.
I have *never* found an FPS experience as much fun as episode two of
Doom. OK, it starts to lose its edginess once you've scored 100% kills
and secrets (without saving, on UV) on E2M4, admittedly, but... it's
*fun*, dammit, in a way that nothing else really manages.
Doom II is too hard (I want to ram MAP30 up Romero's ass, with MAP20's
trick key not far behind; Tricks And Traps and Dead Simple can follow
shortly thereafter). Quake is the Brownest Game In History (apart from
the bit where you get blue monsters in blue corridors). Quake II is
better than Doom II, but not as good as Doom epsiode 2. Serious Sam
is too staged. Half-Life has too much plot and too many "if you don't
know where the ambushes are, you die a horrible death" moments to be a
good "I know, I'll turn on my computer and slaughter monsters/thugs/
whatever" FPS. Return To Castle Wolfenstein has a ludicrous endgame.
Red Faction becomes unplayably hard when you get to the showdown with
Capek.
...
PLUTONIA.WAD has *that* MAP11 ("Hunted"). HR2FINAL.WAD has an archvile
before MAP06 on *I'm Too Young To Die* (worse, it appears as if by magic
in an area you've already been through!). I'll forgive people archviles
that early on Ultraviolence, but frankly... I think the guy who
implemented the archvile should be tied to the base of Nelson's Column
and publicly bastinadoed at midday, on a Saturday, on national television,
with running commentary by Des Lynam.
(What I really want, of course, is a multiplayer version of _Oni_ :)
David Damerell
>Martin Read <mpr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>I have *never* found an FPS experience as much fun as episode two of
>>Doom. OK, it starts to lose its edginess once you've scored 100% kills
>grins. E1M7 competes with MMori1 map21 for my most fave map. Ep2 is
>not as interesting except for parts of individual maps, and it often
>lacks the visual "rightness" that marked Ep1.
Oh, I disagree. Episode 1's very good, but it is a little samey.
[This is all relative. It _is_ very good.]
Also, Episode 2's where we saw a lot of things for the first time.
Tomatoes and lost souls, yes, but barons as normal opponents, and the
first real ammo crunch - we forget, now, but E2M4 E2M5 is where one first
learns to punch pinkbeasts and lure imps in close enough to dispatch them
with a single shell.
>>Doom II is too hard (I want to ram MAP30 up Romero's ass, with MAP20's
>>trick key not far behind; Tricks And Traps and Dead Simple can follow
Trick keys!
That's what's wrong with Doom II; trick keys. With the notable exception
of E2M9, Doom doesn't have trick keys; Doom II is full of them.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Stephen Howe
That can be tricky :-)
>, with MAP20's
> trick key not far behind...
I don't find that hard at all. It is the order which it is tackled that
matters.
>...; Tricks And Traps
Tricks and Traps can be done from scratch (50 bullets), it is just a matter
of tackling it in the right order. For example, you can lure the Cacodemon
out of the door containing the long passageway, go into the end, the Baron
teleports and if you do it right, the Cacodemon hits the Baron and fight
starts. You can now hack at the Baron with the chainsaw and he won't fight
you.
Other times I have lured the Cacodemon into the room where all the Demons
are on a ledge, but just beforehand kill the Shotgun guy in the roomful of
Cacos and then
hit 2 rockets into the pack of Demons and then rotated round the room. The
solitary Caco, slowly finishes the Demons and you have enough Shotgun ammo
and punches to finish the rest.
>... and Dead Simple can follow...
Well Dead Simple is the first level on Doom 2 where you have to keep moving.
You cannot rest at all. Strafing is vital. If you plan 30 minute lunch
breaks, you are dead :-)
The level that I think is tough from scratch is LV28 as for a while, you
have very little ammo to start with.
TNT and Plutonia levels are in general, much harder than Doom2 levels. You
just need to practice. :-)
S
Stephen Howe
> grins. E1M7 competes with MMori1 map21 for my most fave map. Ep2 is
> not as interesting except for parts of individual maps, and it often
> mathematical relationships among visible elements.)
Well except E1M8, all the rest was a single author, yes?
> >shortly thereafter). Quake is the Brownest Game In History (apart from
>
> I've learned to hate brown maps, but got that from Plutonia.
<puzzled>, Brown as in the colour or is this a slang term I have not picked
up on?
> >that early on Ultraviolence, but frankly... I think the guy who
> >implemented the archvile should be tied to the base of Nelson's Column
>
> I like it. I have the "ghosts" bug turned on too, because without it,
> there's one less scarey element, and DOOM is, as someone once put it,
> essentially about FEAR.
Me too. I like archvile. I have lost my fear of him. He is a nuisance
mainly. You can quite happily use your own body to stop him advancing down a
passage, just making sure that you have an out-of-sight bolthole when he
fires. You basically don't want him running around.
> >and publicly bastinadoed at midday, on a Saturday, on national
television,
> >with running commentary by Des Lynam.
>
> I have no idea who those are, but they sound like politicians :)
UK Sports commentator :)
S
Stephen Howe
> >>trick key not far behind; Tricks And Traps and Dead Simple can follow
>
> Trick keys!
>
> That's what's wrong with Doom II; trick keys. With the notable exception
> of E2M9, Doom doesn't have trick keys; Doom II is full of them.
What trick keys? I don't get that at all. Can someone elaborate?
S
John Gaughan
> What trick keys? I don't get that at all. Can someone elaborate?
You grab the key and about 4,000 monsters teleport in, the door closes,
a ledge drops into nukage, etc.
--
John Gaughan
http://www.johngaughan.net/
jo...@johngaughan.net
David Damerell
>>That's what's wrong with Doom II; trick keys. With the notable exception
>>of E2M9, Doom doesn't have trick keys; Doom II is full of them.
>What trick keys? I don't get that at all. Can someone elaborate?
In Doom I, you tackle all levels (except E2M9) by positioning yourself so
that you can fire into your enemies effectively while evading incoming
fire, and try to take out monsters in a sensible order (the closing
pinkbeast first, say, then the lost soul that just went behind you, then
the imps...) while making good use of your ammunition.
That's what I enjoy.
A "trick key" is where that's the wrong thing. The room in "Tricks and
Traps" with the 20-odd barons facing the cyberdemon is a trick key; the
spiderdemon on The Crusher is too, or leaving the last fattie alive on
Dead Simple while you collect a bunch of health and ammo to tackle the
babyspiders - or the big fight in Gotcha.
I don't enjoy that so much. A bit of it's OK; I don't mind getting the
tomatos and imps to fight on E3M1, or luring monsters into crushers, or
positioning myself so enemies of different species are likely to infight;
but when that sort of gameplay entirely takes over from Doom I gameplay,
I'm not going to have so much fun.
David Damerell
>>...; Tricks And Traps
>Tricks and Traps can be done from scratch (50 bullets), it is just a matter
>of tackling it in the right order.
I don't think the difficulty of Tricks and Traps is the issue here. I can
do it starting with the popgun and 50 bullets, no worries; I still don't
like it.
David Damerell
>Stephen Howe wrote:
>>What trick keys? I don't get that at all. Can someone elaborate?
>You grab the key and about 4,000 monsters teleport in, the door closes,
>a ledge drops into nukage, etc.
Actually, I don't mean keys like the red keycard at all - I mean in the
sense that "the key to this situation is that the cyberdemon will fire
into the barons and have to fight them all".
Not that massive ambushes aren't pretty corny, too.
Stephen Howe
I don't see that that is an exception. I can get the Barons to fight the
Cacos and then tackle the weakened Barons or I can take them out separately.
It is horses for courses :-)
The same could be said for other levels.
And as it stands, there are numerous times where you can take out monsters
by firing at barrels and in some cases you can argue that that ws in the
mind of the level designer (E1M8, E3M4 spring to mind). Do you regard that
as a trick?
Then there is the false exit on E2M6. Do you regard that as a trick?
There there is the rocket-propelled thrust on E3M6 to get to the secret
level. Do you regard that as a trick?
I see all these things as just a continuation and exploitation of what is
possible in level design for the Doom engine and I do not regard them as
unenjoyable or a real downer on level construction. If these tricks were
used on a regular basis in every room, we would get bored..
> A "trick key" is where that's the wrong thing. The room in "Tricks and
> Traps" with the 20-odd barons facing the cyberdemon is a trick key; the
> spiderdemon on The Crusher is too, or leaving the last fattie alive on
> Dead Simple while you collect a bunch of health and ammo to tackle the
> babyspiders - or the big fight in Gotcha.
>
> I don't enjoy that so much. A bit of it's OK; I don't mind getting the
> tomatos and imps to fight on E3M1, or luring monsters into crushers, or
> positioning myself so enemies of different species are likely to infight;
> but when that sort of gameplay entirely takes over from Doom I gameplay,
> I'm not going to have so much fun.
Noted
S
Stephen Howe
> do it starting with the popgun and 50 bullets, no worries; I still don't
> like it.
Ok
S
Stephen Howe
from
> >> I've learned to hate brown maps, but got that from Plutonia.
> ><puzzled>, Brown as in the colour or is this a slang term I have not
picked
> >up on?
>
Hrrrmm.
I remember purple skies in E3M6 and E4M2
And green floors in E1M3, E4M6
And blue walls in E2M5
And metallic grey walls and floors in E3M2
And cyan floors in E3M7
And cyan acid baths in E2M5, E2M7
Not much yellow or red. So not completely brown :-)
S
>
> [archvile]
> >> I like it. I have the "ghosts" bug turned on too, because without it,
> >> there's one less scarey element, and DOOM is, as someone once put it,
> >> essentially about FEAR.
> >Me too. I like archvile. I have lost my fear of him. He is a nuisance
> >mainly. You can quite happily use your own body to stop him advancing
down a
> >passage, just making sure that you have an out-of-sight bolthole when he
> >fires. You basically don't want him running around.
>
> Exactly!
>
> And there are few things creepier than *wondering* if you just heard
> the horrid <sccclrrpp> sound of a monster being resurrected...
> somewhere just out of reach. :)
>
> >> >and publicly bastinadoed at midday, on a Saturday, on national
> >television,
> >> >with running commentary by Des Lynam.
> >> I have no idea who those are, but they sound like politicians :)
> >UK Sports commentator :)
>
> <thinks of Howard Cosell, runs away screaming>
>
> ~REZ~
>
Tim Williams
news:403a7b03$0$7066$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net...
> > >> I've learned to hate brown maps, but got that from Plutonia.
> I remember purple skies in E3M6 and E4M2
> Not much yellow or red. So not completely brown :-)
Erm...look again... ^^
Plutonia isn't that bad in my estimation. I'm playing it through again..
been a few years. ;-) I don't blame them for using brown a lot since it is
the most common color in all the textures and goes with damn near anything.
Tim
--
"I have misplaced my pants." - Homer Simpson | Electronics,
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --+ Metalcasting
and Games: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
John Gaughan
> But I don't get tired of chocolate either!
So you are a woman?
Raymond Martineau
<stephenPOINThoweATtns-globalPOINTcom> wrote:
>> >> >shortly thereafter). Quake is the Brownest Game In History (apart
>from
>> >> I've learned to hate brown maps, but got that from Plutonia.
>> ><puzzled>, Brown as in the colour or is this a slang term I have not
>picked
>> >up on?
>>
>> Brown as in the colour. Brown adobe. Brown sludge. Brown sky. Bleah!!
>
>Hrrrmm.
>
>I remember purple skies in E3M6 and E4M2
>And green floors in E1M3, E4M6
>And blue walls in E2M5
>And metallic grey walls and floors in E3M2
>And cyan floors in E3M7
All this is true for Quake. However, since brown is prevailent in most of
the maps (combined with the low brightness of GLQuake), it can be debatable
on whether a specific texture is brown, off-brown, or a colour with a brown
tint.
The first missions of each Quake episode (E1M*) are good examples of brown
maps, which are all "military base" style. Also, E1M3 shows large areas of
brown water.
The only official maps that have non-brownish water would be in the
expansion packs of Quake.
>And cyan acid baths in E2M5, E2M7
I'd say this is more like a dark emerald or something - If I had a graphics
application installed right now, I'd be able to give a slightly better
description of the colour.
Stephen Howe
> the maps (combined with the low brightness of GLQuake), it can be
debatable
> on whether a specific texture is brown, off-brown, or a colour with a
brown
> tint.
<laugh> So blue, purple, cyan are all off-tints of brown? Well, I guess so.
> The first missions of each Quake episode (E1M*) are good examples of brown
> maps, which are all "military base" style. Also, E1M3 shows large areas of
> brown water.
Yes, true. They did not have transparent water then. GLQuake did that and
VQuake but last time I ran it, it was amazingly dark.
> The only official maps that have non-brownish water would be in the
> expansion packs of Quake.
Hrrrmmm, thinking. I have those. I'll have to recheck.
> >And cyan acid baths in E2M5, E2M7
>
> I'd say this is more like a dark emerald or something - If I had a
graphics
> application installed right now, I'd be able to give a slightly better
> description of the colour.
It was definitely cyan or turquoise without a shadow of a doubt. We are
talking Quake here not GLQuake or VQuake where the colours are different
(and that is so because in the Quake newsgroups, Shaggy gets asked how you
make it lighter).
S
Stephen Howe
"Tim Williams" <tmor...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:103l5u3...@corp.supernews.com...
> "Stephen Howe" <stephenPOINThoweATtns-globalPOINTcom> wrote in message
> news:403a7b03$0$7066$ed9e...@reading.news.pipex.net...
> > > >> I've learned to hate brown maps, but got that from Plutonia.
> ^ ^ ^ ^
> > I remember purple skies in E3M6 and E4M2
> ...
> > Not much yellow or red. So not completely brown :-)
>
> Erm...look again... ^^
That was talking about Quake. I was pointing out that all levels were not
100% brown.
S
David Damerell
>Stephen Howe" <stephenPOINThoweATtns-globalPOINTcom> wrote:
>>Well except E1M8, all the rest was a single author, yes?
Nope. E1M4 and E1M8 are both Petersen, the rest are Romero. E2 and E3 are
all Petersen, who I guess was a little burned out by E3M7.
I finished CASTEVIL with no saving, BTW - well, no loading. I can't break
myself of the habit of hitting F6 every now and then, but I don't reload
it. It was OK once I cleaned out a bit of it and made a safe base of
operations. One trouble with a non-linear level is it's hard to dish out
armour at the right time; when I found the blue armour in the secret room
buried at the end of the goo trench I had 180% armour and left it to come
back to; then I got stuck in the large green marble area outside and had
to kill all those tomatos and barons with no armour. Bleh.
I did miss 4 kills and 20% secrets but I'm really not inclined to dig
through the whole thing looking for 'em.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
David Damerell
>>In Doom I, you tackle all levels (except E2M9)...
>I don't see that that is an exception. I can get the Barons to fight the
>Cacos and then tackle the weakened Barons or I can take them out separately.
I think there's a definite expectation that you get them to fight; and
that demands prior knowledge of the level that you simply won't have going
in for the first time. The normal thing to do when confronted with 4
barons is just wrong here.
Prior knowledge is part of what makes a trick key. If you can't possibly
get things right without already having played the level and got it wrong,
or examined it in a level editor, that's a bad sign.
>And as it stands, there are numerous times where you can take out monsters
>by firing at barrels and in some cases you can argue that that ws in the
>mind of the level designer (E1M8, E3M4 spring to mind). Do you regard that
>as a trick?
Not really, but if a level came along where you _had_ to fire at the
barrels, where firing into the monsters would be definitely a mistake, I'd
think that was a mistake.
Prior knowledge doesn't help when you find a bunch of monsters and some
barrels.
>Then there is the false exit on E2M6. Do you regard that as a trick?
That's a fair-enough ambush. Prior knowledge helps, but you can survive it
without.
>There there is the rocket-propelled thrust on E3M6 to get to the secret
>level. Do you regard that as a trick?
Yes, definitely - but, hell, it is the secret exit.
Tim Williams
> That was talking about Quake. I was pointing out that all levels were not
> 100% brown.
Oh. Then in that case, there's all the blue stone halls like in E2... not
the least of which is Azure Agony... ack! :o
Stephen Howe
> all Petersen, who I guess was a little burned out by E3M7.
Yes you are right. I should have checked up :)
Mind you, some of the levels Petersen did were originally worked on Tom
Hall.
S
David Damerell
>David Damerell wrote:
>>Nope. E1M4 and E1M8 are both Petersen, the rest are Romero. E2 and E3 are
>>all Petersen, who I guess was a little burned out by E3M7.
>Hall.
Isn't it Tom Hall who said something like "Hey, these new crate textures
are nice, I think a big room full of crates would be interesting"?
Raymond Martineau
<stephenPOINThoweATtns-globalPOINTcom> wrote:
>> All this is true for Quake. However, since brown is prevailent in most of
>> the maps (combined with the low brightness of GLQuake), it can be
>debatable
>> on whether a specific texture is brown, off-brown, or a colour with a
>brown
>> tint.
>
><laugh> So blue, purple, cyan are all off-tints of brown? Well, I guess so.
>
I was basing this off of GLQuake, which is uncomfortably dark. With this
level of darkness, everything looks like brown. :)
>> The first missions of each Quake episode (E1M*) are good examples of brown
>> maps, which are all "military base" style. Also, E1M3 shows large areas of
>> brown water.
>
>Yes, true. They did not have transparent water then. GLQuake did that and
>VQuake but last time I ran it, it was amazingly dark.
GlQuake seems to have a hard-coded Gamma value of 1.0, and IDGamma doesn't
appera to be working under WinXP (probably some patch or new version that I
haven't got yet - I'll look into it later).
>> >And cyan acid baths in E2M5, E2M7
>>
>> I'd say this is more like a dark emerald or something - If I had a
>graphics
>> application installed right now, I'd be able to give a slightly better
>> description of the colour.
>
>It was definitely cyan or turquoise without a shadow of a doubt. We are
>talking Quake here not GLQuake or VQuake where the colours are different
>(and that is so because in the Quake newsgroups, Shaggy gets asked how you
>make it lighter).
>
Okay, it does look like a brightish cyan when the gamma gets turned down a
bit (from 1.0 to 0.7). Not only that, but the rest of the map doesn't look
so brown anymore. :)
Len Pitre
>Half-Life has too much plot and too many "if you don't
>know where the ambushes are, you die a horrible death" moments to be a
>good "I know, I'll turn on my computer and slaughter monsters/thugs/
>whatever" FPS.
Wow. Saying that in public takes guts. There's groups that would issue a
fatwah over such a statement.
>Return To Castle Wolfenstein has a ludicrous endgame.
I've never had the, er, pleasure. May I ask what happens?
Len
--
Pointless sig file.
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Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail.
End pointless sig file.
John Gaughan
> I also don't get tired of raw beef or killing hellspawn. What does
> that tell you? :)
Ugh. Caveman smash!
Borax Man
> Martin Read wrote:
>
>
>>Half-Life has too much plot and too many "if you don't
>>know where the ambushes are, you die a horrible death" moments to be a
>>good "I know, I'll turn on my computer and slaughter monsters/thugs/
>>whatever" FPS.
>
>
> Wow. Saying that in public takes guts. There's groups that would issue a
> fatwah over such a statement.
>
time was just plain irritating. Too much stop start, and crawling
through airduct after airduct! I found Daikatana slightly more enjoyable.
Borax Man
> In article <F6t*Gu...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Martin Read <mpr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>I have *never* found an FPS experience as much fun as episode two of
>>Doom. OK, it starts to lose its edginess once you've scored 100% kills
>
>
> grins. E1M7 competes with MMori1 map21 for my most fave map. Ep2 is
> not as interesting except for parts of individual maps, and it often
> lacks the visual "rightness" that marked Ep1. (Probably a matter of
> mathematical relationships among visible elements.)
>
atmosphere. You really get this sense of underlying evil in Episode 2
more than anyother episode.
>
>>and secrets (without saving, on UV) on E2M4, admittedly, but... it's
>>*fun*, dammit, in a way that nothing else really manages.
>
>
> DOOM in general manages that. :)
>
>
>>Doom II is too hard (I want to ram MAP30 up Romero's ass, with MAP20's
>>trick key not far behind; Tricks And Traps and Dead Simple can follow
>
>
> Neither of those is my idea of great design tho Dead Simple can be
> good if I'm in Bad Assed Dude mood and simply want to slaughter things
> with no regard for my tender hide. It's amazing how quickly it becomes
> total carnage in that mode.
>
>
Those 'trick keys' make Doom 2 great. Sure maybe the first time you
don't figure it out, but it makes the game just that little more cerebral.
In MAP06 when you see the Spiderdemon and think "what am I going to do
here?" you stumble accross the solution.
MAP16, the Suburbs has the best trick key. One massive monster infight.
>>shortly thereafter). Quake is the Brownest Game In History (apart from
>
>
> I've learned to hate brown maps, but got that from Plutonia.
>
>
>>PLUTONIA.WAD has *that* MAP11 ("Hunted"). HR2FINAL.WAD has an archvile
>
>
> That one I've got to be in the mood for. If I'm in Hunter mode, the
> poor Viles don't have a chance in hell. But it's not really all that
> interesting of a map. And I hate the music.
>
>
>>before MAP06 on *I'm Too Young To Die* (worse, it appears as if by magic
>>in an area you've already been through!). I'll forgive people archviles
>
>
> But that's what they're partly for -- to cause random respawns in
> places you THOUGHT were safe! :D
>
>
>>that early on Ultraviolence, but frankly... I think the guy who
>>implemented the archvile should be tied to the base of Nelson's Column
>
>
> I like it. I have the "ghosts" bug turned on too, because without it,
> there's one less scarey element, and DOOM is, as someone once put it,
> essentially about FEAR.
>
>
>>and publicly bastinadoed at midday, on a Saturday, on national television,
>>with running commentary by Des Lynam.
>
>
> I have no idea who those are, but they sound like politicians :)
>
> ~REZ~
>
>
David Damerell
>Those 'trick keys' make Doom 2 great. Sure maybe the first time you
>don't figure it out, but it makes the game just that little more cerebral.
But "cerebral" is not what Doom is about. Doom is about learning tactics
and applying them to new situations. The question should be "how can I
most effectively dispatch these monsters without taking damage myself",
not "what completely new thing is here to find and dispatch the monsters
with".
Of course, there's a grey area between using infighting (which is fair
enough) and maps like Gotcha or the cyberdemon/baron room of Dead Simple
which are a puzzle with infighting as the answer.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Today is Brieday, November.