--
Jeffrey Ruber
a011...@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us
: --
: Jeffrey Ruber
: a011...@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us
I have to agree at least partially here - I think Descent _is_ better
(there - I've said it!) than Doom and Doom ][. But it does have some
things missing - it's not as instantly playable as Doom, you don't get
quite the satisfaction when you destroy something as you do in Doom -
i.e. blowing sargeants away, etc. And I don't think the Deathmatch mode
is as good - possibly because I haven't played it much, but Doom
deathmatch is a lot to improve on.
Jamie.
--
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| mpui3@central. |"The word is no. I am therefore going anyway." |
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I've noticed this idea quite a lot recently that either Doom has to be better
than Descent or Descent has to better than Doom.
Why?
_Both_ games are very good. They have different styles and one person who likes
one game will not like the other, and vice versa.
At the moment, add-ons for Descent are not possible. When (or if) they do become
possible, Descent will become a lot more popular.
I like Doom because it's visceral in-your-face mayhem is a blast. It's a
one-on-many frag fest that's very personal.
I like Descent because I've always liked space-type games and I'm personally
biased to better and better realism anyway. Being inside a ship doesn't quite
make it such a personal battle - it's like it's your ship that's being attacked,
not you (which is why I always play full screen, to remove the constant
reminder that I'm in a ship).
I think Descent might have had more of a Doom feel if one was wearing a
hoverpack or something, instead of being inside a ship. It would have made the
conflict much more personal, especially in deathmatch. Remember the VR scene
in Lawnmower Man where Jobe and the kid play the through-the-tunnels game?
Something like that maybe.
I like Descent because of its 3D feel and gameplay - I find it very easy to
maneuver, etc.
Descent has better graphics, yes, but that's hardly surprising. The Doom engine
is well over a year old. This is why, when people pester Id for Doom III, Id
says 'No! We're finished with the Doom Engine! We're onto something new, bigger,
better...'.
I play both Doom & Descent, and until Quake is released, I'll continue to do so.
I still don't own a pc, but I'll buy Registered Descent soon, just as I bought
registered Doom.
Ian.
> I have to agree at least partially here - I think Descent _is_ better
> (there - I've said it!) than Doom and Doom ][. But it does have some
> things missing - it's not as instantly playable as Doom, you don't get
> quite the satisfaction when you destroy something as you do in Doom -
> i.e. blowing sargeants away, etc. And I don't think the Deathmatch mode
> is as good - possibly because I haven't played it much, but Doom
> deathmatch is a lot to improve on.
Sorry, you're both full of it. Descent is only 10% as fun as Doom.
I've played them both VERY EXTENSIVELY and I think descent is very
slow action-wise.
My biggest problem with Descent is that you can't whip around 180
degrees in an instant, like you can in doom. I hate it in Descent
when someone is nailing you from behind and you can only run or
wait 2 seconds for your ship to rotate.
Also, I don't like the fact that descent does not have a "speed" mode
like doom. You'd think they'd be able to put a turbocharger on that
ship.
I agree that Descent is more technically advanced, but that does not
always make a fun game. Doom is more fun because they whittled down
its feature set to the most perfect action combination.
Examples:
Descent: You get damaged if you hit a wall too hard. It is more
realistic that way.
Doom: You don't get damaged by walls. It is less realistic. BUT WHO
CARES? It is more fun to run around and slam into things.
Descent: You can move in any axis. It is very realistic.
Doom: You can only move in 2-D. It is less realistic. BUT WHO
CARES? In doom, there are fewer controls to worry about, and you
can concentrate on moving QUICKLY and WITH AGILITY to stay alive.
Anyone want to debate me?
+------------------------------------------------+
| Tony Fabris tfa...@oro.net |
+------------------------------------------------+
| REALITY.SYS corrupted. Re-boot Universe? (Y,N) |
+------------------------------------------------+
Having an SVGA monitor makes no difference since descent does not run
in SVGA. And you certainly *do not* have a 32 bit sound system. There
is no such thing. Even the highest end proffesional signal processors
operate in 24 bit as the human ear does not respond to resolutions higher
than this. If you have an AWE32 this is 16bit.
Descent has one or two advantages over doom (eg. it's true 3d). I don't
find it as satisfying to laser other ships as I do blowing away monsters
with a shotgun, but I enjoy playing both. Who cares which is better?
--
Steve Rawlinson
>Examples:
>Descent: You get damaged if you hit a wall too hard. It is more
>realistic that way.
>Doom: You don't get damaged by walls. It is less realistic. BUT WHO
>CARES? It is more fun to run around and slam into things.
>Descent: You can move in any axis. It is very realistic.
>Doom: You can only move in 2-D. It is less realistic. BUT WHO
>CARES? In doom, there are fewer controls to worry about, and you
>can concentrate on moving QUICKLY and WITH AGILITY to stay alive.
The reasons you stated for not liking Descent are exactly the reasons I do
like it. I like being able to drop under a ledge and pop up just in time to
see three drones staring me in the face.
Which brings up another difference in the game. The robots in Descent
actually seem to take a strategy to get to you. Instead of taking a beeline
as soon as they see you, they'll wait and take potshots or ambush you if you
run into a room without looking first.
As for the controls, I feel more agile in Descent than Doom. But then I play
Doom when I feel like kicking the shit out of everything. Descent's for when
I want to think and plan. And Aliens-TC is for when I want to jump out of my
seat when a damn alien comes out of the freaking wall!
There isn't really any debate. The games are suited to different tastes.
Hunter
Right on! Descent is not better than Doom, Descent's _graphics
engine_ is! But, as you pointed out, WHO CARES?? Descent doesn't
even compare to Doom when in comes to sheer fun and playability!!
> Sorry, you're both full of it. Descent is only 10% as fun as Doom.
> I've played them both VERY EXTENSIVELY and I think descent is very
> slow action-wise.
> My biggest problem with Descent is that you can't whip around 180
> degrees in an instant, like you can in doom. I hate it in Descent
> when someone is nailing you from behind and you can only run or
> wait 2 seconds for your ship to rotate.
> Also, I don't like the fact that descent does not have a "speed" mode
> like doom. You'd think they'd be able to put a turbocharger on that
> ship.
> I agree that Descent is more technically advanced, but that does not
> always make a fun game. Doom is more fun because they whittled down
> its feature set to the most perfect action combination.
> Examples:
> Descent: You get damaged if you hit a wall too hard. It is more
> realistic that way.
> Doom: You don't get damaged by walls. It is less realistic. BUT WHO
> CARES? It is more fun to run around and slam into things.
yes Yes YES! I agree with all the above completely!
> Descent: You can move in any axis. It is very realistic.
Not really... Zero-g mine tunnels?
> Doom: You can only move in 2-D. It is less realistic.
Umm, no. You can fall down, go up/down stairs, take elevators, etc... You
*CAN* move in any axis, just not all the time... It's every bit as
realistic as descent, if not more...
Oh, then there's Heretic, if you have the wings you can move in any axis
any time... Realistic? No, not really...
> BUT WHO CARES? In doom, there are fewer controls to worry about, and you
> can concentrate on moving QUICKLY and WITH AGILITY to stay alive.
Exactly.
--
Genesis Krzyzaniak - Gene...@Eden.Com - http://www.eden.com/~genesisk
G>yes Yes YES! I agree with all the above completely!
Ditto, for the most part, but a 1-point penalty for slamming something
hard isn't much to worry about - AND you make noise. Handy for tracking
careless Dea...uh, I mean Anarchy players...
G>> Descent: You can move in any axis. It is very realistic.
G>Not really... Zero-g mine tunnels?
I figure somewhere in the deep dark details of the storyline that all
the robots and your ship have some kind of anti-gravity thingy. That
would explain why you bob up and down when sitting still (fluctuations
in power or something) and why the hostages are always standing on the
floor...
G>> Doom: You can only move in 2-D. It is less realistic.
G>Umm, no. You can fall down, go up/down stairs, take elevators, etc... You
>*CAN* move in any axis, just not all the time... It's every bit as
>realistic as descent, if not more...
G>Oh, then there's Heretic, if you have the wings you can move in any axis
>any time... Realistic? No, not really...
In fact, if Heretic had come out before Doom, I don't think anyone would
have ever realized that it only supported 2D coordinates for objects
(though I suppose that the fact of only 2D sectors would have been
discovered fairly quickly...)
G>> BUT WHO CARES? In doom, there are fewer controls to worry
about, and you
>> can concentrate on moving QUICKLY and WITH AGILITY to stay alive.
G>Exactly.
Agreed. Basically, to play the game, I have to limit myself to 5
"real-time" keyboard controls. (the ones I use are ` for flare, Q to
roll left, A and Z to move forward and backward, and alt for str...uh,
slide mode.) anything beyond that requires me to let go of either those
control keys or the joystick (and as I don't have one of the rather
expensive million-control joysticks...)
Mind you, the only control I really miss with this configuration is the
"Bomb" key, I can get along fine with the other controls, only letting
go to select a different weapon or to view the map.
Finally - a request: How about a single-key control to "scroll" through
your weapons (i.e. instead of letting go and hitting "4" to switch from
lasers to plasma gun, just hit the "scroll" key rapidly 3 times...)
* QMPro 1.52 * Four out of five herrings that smoke get bagels.
:
:G>> Examples:
: >> Descent: You get damaged if you hit a wall too hard. It is more
: >> realistic that way.
: >> Doom: You don't get damaged by walls. It is less realistic. BUT WHO
: >> CARES? It is more fun to run around and slam into things.
:
:G>yes Yes YES! I agree with all the above completely!
:
:Ditto, for the most part, but a 1-point penalty for slamming something
:hard isn't much to worry about - AND you make noise. Handy for tracking
:careless Dea...uh, I mean Anarchy players...
I agree. banging to walls is fun, but a small penalty would be nice
:
:G>> Descent: You can move in any axis. It is very realistic.
:
:G>Not really... Zero-g mine tunnels?
:
:I figure somewhere in the deep dark details of the storyline that all
:the robots and your ship have some kind of anti-gravity thingy. That
:would explain why you bob up and down when sitting still (fluctuations
:in power or something) and why the hostages are always standing on the
:floor...
first time I saw any hostages, I thought they were hanging from the
ceilings!
:
: G>> Doom: You can only move in 2-D. It is less realistic.
:
:G>Umm, no. You can fall down, go up/down stairs, take elevators, etc... You
: >*CAN* move in any axis, just not all the time... It's every bit as
: >realistic as descent, if not more...
:
:G>Oh, then there's Heretic, if you have the wings you can move in any axis
: >any time... Realistic? No, not really...
:
:In fact, if Heretic had come out before Doom, I don't think anyone would
:have ever realized that it only supported 2D coordinates for objects
:(though I suppose that the fact of only 2D sectors would have been
:discovered fairly quickly...)
exactly. imo, doom is still the best.
:
: G>> BUT WHO CARES? In doom, there are fewer controls to worry
:about, and you
: >> can concentrate on moving QUICKLY and WITH AGILITY to stay alive.
:
:G>Exactly.
:
:Agreed. Basically, to play the game, I have to limit myself to 5
:"real-time" keyboard controls. (the ones I use are ` for flare, Q to
:roll left, A and Z to move forward and backward, and alt for str...uh,
:slide mode.) anything beyond that requires me to let go of either those
:control keys or the joystick (and as I don't have one of the rather
:expensive million-control joysticks...)
:
:Mind you, the only control I really miss with this configuration is the
:"Bomb" key, I can get along fine with the other controls, only letting
:go to select a different weapon or to view the map.
:
:Finally - a request: How about a single-key control to "scroll" through
:your weapons (i.e. instead of letting go and hitting "4" to switch from
:lasers to plasma gun, just hit the "scroll" key rapidly 3 times...)
:
: * QMPro 1.52 * Four out of five herrings that smoke get bagels.
--
Martijn Dekker | PFF: http://www.fwi.uva.nl/~mdekker/pff.html
University of Amsterdam | or finger -l mde...@turing.fwi.uva.nl
Math department | E-mail: mde...@fwi.uva.nl
>Tony Fabris (tfa...@oro.net) wrote:
>> Sorry, you're both full of it. Descent is only 10% as fun as Doom.
>> I've played them both VERY EXTENSIVELY and I think descent is very
>> slow action-wise.
>> My biggest problem with Descent is that you can't whip around 180
Lot of stuff deleted ....
>Oh, then there's Heretic, if you have the wings you can move in any axis
>any time... Realistic? No, not really...
>> BUT WHO CARES? In doom, there are fewer controls to worry about, and you
>> can concentrate on moving QUICKLY and WITH AGILITY to stay alive.
>Exactly.
Descent is NOT Doom !!!
Doom is a good game - and it is one year old - I like it and we play it often.
Descent is a good game - it is up to date, and needs more powerfull computers -
you see what I mean, if you play 8-player Descent on machines, which are not
min 486-80.
You must use other controlls to play Descent - we use the mouse and 4 Keys from
the keyboard - it is a great action game - a great network game.
If we are tired of Descent, we switch to Doom, if we are tired of Doom, we switch to Descent.....
Doom has one mistake - you can only play with 4 players....
But now - let this - is better than - shit !
Ciao
Chris
BWAHAHAHAHAH! That's great! Maybe it should be that way on purpose!
That's too funny!
Easy is good. Easy keeps you alive. Easy wins the tournament!
In article <3kh962$e...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> gra...@cs.tu-berlin.de (Christian
Gran) writes:>Path:
>ncrcae!ncrhub2!ncrgw2.ncr.com!uunet!EU.net!Germany.EU.net!news.dfn.de!zeus.rbi.i
>nformatik.uni-frankfurt.de!terra.wiwi.uni-frankfurt.de!news.th-darmstadt.de!faue
>rn!cs.tu-berlin.de!granch
>From: gra...@cs.tu-berlin.de (Christian Gran)
>Newsgroups: rec.games.computer.doom.misc
>Subject: Re: Descent vs Doom
>Date: 19 Mar 1995 12:48:02 GMT
>Organization: Technical University of Berlin, Germany
>Lines: 43
>Message-ID: <3kh962$e...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de>
>References: <3jnpli$g...@bcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
><3jp65l$f...@infa.central.susx.ac.uk> <3jqka5$2...@ag.oro.net>
><3k5urs$e...@boris.eden.com>
>NNTP-Posting-Host: quepasa.cs.tu-berlin.de
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
You got it - and Descent is easy !
We play it with mouse and 4 Keys - it is Action if there are 6 or more players.
We are all Doomers, but Doom is old and you can not play it with more than
4 players.....
So - play Doom and Descent (p.s. the first time someone plays Doom, he sees not
the difference between a wall and a Door, he runs slow and if I plays deathmatch
with experienced players, he will get a horror of such a difficult game!)
Think about your first steps in Doom and then - try Descent
Ciao
Chris
>cbu...@aol.com (CBus222) writes:
>Ciao
> Chris
i agree, doom and descent are both killer games
they aren't even comparable their so different
doom does have more action/violence, which i love
but descent is definitely the most sophisticated and
the controls are easy as hell after a little practice,
i use only keyboard controls and i can fly circles around
any motherfucker
>The fundamental difference for me was the ease of game play.
I set Descent to play with essentially the same key combination as I use
for Doom. Yes, this is obviously extended for roll, bomb, flares and such
but the basic movement controls are very similar (otherwise I'd go haywire
changing from one game to the other!)
If you play Doom at a reasonable level you need good reactions, the game
is essentially as fast as you are (on a decent PC with a mouse at any rate).
I think this is what gives it the adrenaline edge, you have to be forever
primed to react. Descent is more strategic. While good reactions certainly
help they are not as important as in Doom and you can compensate with good
positioning and a good aim and anticipation. All of these things apply to
both games but to different extents.
> Descent is technologically excellent, and actuall\
>y provides for a fun game, but not nearly the adrenaline rush of a DOOM
> deathmatch.
I've only tried 2 player Descent which can get a bit boring due to the
size of many of the levels. However I would guess that 4 or more player games
would be quite lively!
--
-----------------------------------------
Lawrence Kirby | fr...@genesis.demon.co.uk
Wilts, England | 7073...@compuserve.com
-----------------------------------------
Actually Descent is more appealing to the Fight-Sim or Wing
Commander / Tie Fighter / X-Wing crow, not the Flight-Sim crowd..
I LIKE descent, but I REALLY HATE Flight-Sims -- they're WAY too
boring and 'realistic' for me.
Todd Wagner
--todd...@vt.edu
Phil (pjmi...@cix.compulink.co.uk)
That's interesting. I prefer the keyboard. maybe your touch is too
heavy. i found the joystick hard to control (although i am new to
joysticks). In general joysticks feel more like `real' flying and are
fun. But I get my butt kicked a lot less when I use the keyboard.
imho, of course.
--
--
John Patrick Lestrade | Begin PGP Public Key
cnesta::lestrade or SSL::lestrade | ``Open Sesame''
lest...@ra.msstate.edu | End PGP Public Key
- Joseph
In article <D663u...@cix.compulink.co.uk>, pjmi...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Phil
Miller") writes:
|> X-News-Software: Ameol
|> Lines: 6
>I found Descent completely uncontrollable. I don't have a joystick so I
>was forced to use the keyboard. A touch of the down arrow and I was
>staring at the floor, a tap of the up arrow and there I was looking
>vertically upwards. Hopeless if you ask me...
I hope you didn't base your entire opinion of the game on this first
impression. I did the same thing when I first started playing. It takes a
lot of getting used to, but I switched to the mouse for better control (I had
a laptop and couldn't use a joystick :-( ). For Descent I don't think
there's any way of getting around using two hands for control unless you have
a super-duper 100+ button Thrustmaster, and I even have a friend who refuses
to play it because he won't learn the controls. Try using the right hand for
rotational movement and the left hand for sliding and forward-backward.
I still love Doom for all-out destruction but I feel more graceful playing
Descent. Aliens-TC is a whole story in itself.
Hunter
I imagine you'll be eating your words in less than two years, if that...
Remember when we were kids: "Adventure for my Atari 2600 is the BEST!"
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
R Pickett * This line under construction -- pardon our dust.*
eme...@sfsu.edu Not responsible blahblahblah my own words blahblah,
eme...@opcode.com blahblah reflect the opinions blahblah get it blah?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>I've only tried 2 player Descent which can get a bit boring due to the
>size of many of the levels. However I would guess that 4 or more player games
>would be quite lively!
Yes, Descent with 4 (or more) is quite 'Lively'. I've played Descent
with 5 playing at the same time, and it's more like 'HECTIC' to figure out who
is who (if you are trying to play teams), and it slowed down a little for me
(since I'm still on a DX2-50).
I enjoyed playing the 2 person better, so it wasn't so damn confusing.
Scott
hb...@lainet.com
-Team OS/2-
OS/2 v.3 Warp!
Michael Barr || ro...@uiuc.edu
Senior, Computer Science || University of Illinois
System Administrator || Air Compliance Advisor Development Group
My <A HREF="http://www.cen.uiuc.edu/~mb9530/Doom.html">Doom</A> Page.