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Félix Croteau

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Jun 20, 2001, 3:01:21 PM6/20/01
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Hi all, I'm making a great TC on Edge 1.24, and I need someone to help me. I
want using SLIGE to generate levels, but I need someone to modify the code C
in SLIGE to support new monsters I added in things.ddf and modify the code
again because with EDGE we can make a level with 3d bridges and floor over
floor, but SLIGE doesn't do this at this time..

Every help will be appreciate!

Thank you


Smola

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Jun 20, 2001, 5:52:51 PM6/20/01
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"Félix Croteau" <fel...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:Db8Y6.24412$J73.1...@wagner.videotron.net...

> Hi all, I'm making a great TC on Edge 1.24, and I need someone to help me.
I
> want using SLIGE to generate levels, but I need someone to modify the code
C
> in SLIGE to support new monsters I added in things.ddf and modify the code
> again because with EDGE we can make a level with 3d bridges and floor over
> floor, but SLIGE doesn't do this at this time..

I'm not so good at c, but If you don't find anyone in a week, contact me at:


Smola
--
(replace the "ASS" from my address with "supersmola")

David M.Chess

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Jun 21, 2001, 10:22:10 AM6/21/01
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Felix's original question hasn't made it to my news server yet,
but I'll reply a little based on this snippet. Just last night
I was going through the SLIGE code with an eye toward moving the
monster descriptions out to the CFG file, rather than being
hardcoded. In my current rough idea, you'd be able to specify
these things about a monster:

hex id
how much ammo (in bullet-damage units or something) it takes for
an "I'm to young to die" player to kill one
how much ammo it takes for a "Hurt me plenty" player to kill one
how much ammo it takes for an Ultraviolence player to kill one
how much damage the ITYTD player takes from it before it's killed
how much damage the HMP player takes
how much damage the UV player takes
what weapon (if any) it drops when it dies
what ammo, and how much, it drops when it dies
how wide it is
how tall it is
whether it flies
whether it's melee-only (like them invisible pink guys)
whether it can be a sniper
what versions of the vanilla IWAD it's in (if any)
whether it counts as a "big" monster for the -bimo switch and all

Does that seem like a good set of things? Is there anything else
SLIGE might need to be told about an EDGE/DDF monster (or any
other kind of monster)?

Note that as usual I make no promises about when a SLIGE with
this feature might actually be released! *8)

I'm likely to do the monster stuff first, because it would be
useful to everybody (since it would let people tweak existing
monsters as well as add new ones). Support for EDGE-specific
features like extrafloors and liquids is lower priority for now.
Anybody who's using EDGE and would like to see those things
added to SLIGE, do speak up! And of course if anyone would
like to take a crack at writing some code, let me know...

DC
http://www.doomworld.com/slige/
http://www.davidchess.com/

Félix Croteau

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Jun 21, 2001, 1:55:48 PM6/21/01
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Hi, you don't need to make the cfg file like this, we have just add the hex
code and the rest is detailed in the things.ddf file of edge, example, when
I using wad author to add my new monsters on a map, I just modify the
doom2.cfg to add theses things:

0xbd9 example

and when I starting the game, the new monsters is there.

We don't have to specific the health and others everything allready
specified in things.ddf and this is the same method for everything, I mean
to add weapons or any objects.

and for the bridge its just a method of sector manipulation like if we want
to create stairs or a door, its very easy :)


David M.Chess

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Jun 22, 2001, 4:22:48 PM6/22/01
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I've probably explained myself badly, here! To make reasonably
playable levels, SLIGE has to know lots of things about the
monsters, like how much ammo they take to kill, how much damage
they do, and so on. Otherwise it wouldn't know when to put
down more ammo, health kits, and so on. And obviously it has
to know how wide the monsters are, otherwise it might put one
down where it'd be stuck in a wall!

If you're suggesting that SLIGE could read all that stuff out
of the .ddf file itself, that might be possible (although
inferring the amount of damage the monster does might be
sort of tough). But given that people not using .ddf might
want to fiddle with SLIGE's opinions of monsters, I'll
probably just put it in the SLIGE CFG file; if someone
wants to write a utility that automatically produces
SLIGE CFG information based on an EDGE .ddf file, that
would of course be cool!

> and for the bridge its just a method of sector manipulation like
> if we want to create stairs or a door, its very easy :)

I'm sure it's easy to do in a map editor! Teaching SLIGE to
do it, on the other hand, would require writing code. *8)

DC

Len Pitre

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Jun 23, 2001, 12:15:45 AM6/23/01
to
Rez wrote:

>Um.. to a large extent it sounds like you're reinventing Dehacked.
>Most of this stuff (Len?? speak up!) can already be controlled with a
>.DEH file. It's not WAD-specific.

Some of it. Here's my take:

>> how much ammo (in bullet-damage units or something) it takes for
>> an "I'm to young to die" player to kill one
>> how much ammo it takes for a "Hurt me plenty" player to kill one
>> how much ammo it takes for an Ultraviolence player to kill one

This is sort of arbitrary, based on the idea of how much skill someone who
plays at that level takes.

>> how much damage the ITYTD player takes from it before it's killed
>> how much damage the HMP player takes
>> how much damage the UV player takes

Again, arbitrary.

>> what weapon (if any) it drops when it dies
>> what ammo, and how much, it drops when it dies

Hard-coded, though tweaking MBF's Spawn codepointer can meddle with it.
(They're not properly-dropped weapons, though.)

>> how wide it is
>> how tall it is
>> whether it flies
>> whether it's melee-only (like them invisible pink guys)

These four are parts of DEH. First two have their own entries, third is a
flag, fourth is simply a check to see if "Far attack frame" is nonzero.

>> whether it can be a sniper

Which means...?

>> what versions of the vanilla IWAD it's in (if any)

Sort of hard-coded.

>> whether it counts as a "big" monster for the -bimo switch and all

Again, arbitrary.

>>Note that as usual I make no promises about when a SLIGE with
>>this feature might actually be released! *8)
>

><g> In fact I was about to wonder where the heck you were and whether
>Slige had been updated lately!!

Maybe he's like me, except with a different outside obsession.:)

Len

--
Pointless SIG file.
http://archonrealm.cjb.net/ | http://archonrealm.tripod.com
Replace "Doom!" with "Hotmail" to send e-mail.
End pointless SIG file.

Andre Majorel

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Jun 23, 2001, 6:26:49 AM6/23/01
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In article <3B33A918...@us.ibm.com>, David M.Chess wrote:

>If you're suggesting that SLIGE could read all that stuff out
>of the .ddf file itself, that might be possible (although
>inferring the amount of damage the monster does might be
>sort of tough). But given that people not using .ddf might
>want to fiddle with SLIGE's opinions of monsters, I'll
>probably just put it in the SLIGE CFG file; if someone
>wants to write a utility that automatically produces
>SLIGE CFG information based on an EDGE .ddf file, that
>would of course be cool!

Yes, this sounds like the right thing. That way, you wouldn't
have to bloat SLIGE, and the code in question could be reused
for other purposes and maintained separately.

Even that way, the two could be well-integrated by having SLIGE
suck the cfg data on the fly from the utility through a pipe
(popen("ddf2slige foo.ddf")).

--
André Majorel <amaj...@teezer.fr> (it's really "teaser")
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/
You can not distinguish creation from discovery. -- Christopher Weare

David M.Chess

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Jun 25, 2001, 10:59:26 AM6/25/01
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Tx to all who responded!

REZ:

>Well, it would be nice to be able to specify difficulty level. You
>might look at WADWHAT's source and run some checks using it to get
>an idea what it's making right now.

Difficulty level being basically the (ammo+health)/monsters ratio?
Being able to twiddle how much ammo you get per various sorts of
monster, and how much health you're assumed to lose, would let you
control that indirectly. I'll think about giving more direct
control over it. Sort of like the existing -macho switch?

>The main problem I've run into is too many heavy dudes near the
>start, before I've got any ammo or weapons to speak of. I'd like
>to see them at least partially shifted further along the flow of
>the map.

Yeah, some kind of gradual introduction of bigger monsters as
the level goes along (or just keeping the first couple of
rooms uneventful) might be a good option.

><g> In fact I was about to wonder where the heck you were and
>whether Slige had been updated lately!!

The version currently on my hard disk has a few changes for the
RISC and SPARC ports, but nothing really significant.

>more development of Slige's creative layout-making
>ability.

That's *definitely* the hard part! *8)

Len:

>>> how much ammo (in bullet-damage units or something) it takes for
>>> an "I'm to young to die" player to kill one
>>> how much ammo it takes for a "Hurt me plenty" player to kill one
>>> how much ammo it takes for an Ultraviolence player to kill one
>
>This is sort of arbitrary, based on the idea of how much skill someone
>who plays at that level takes.

Arbitrary in that it's not something that can be (easily?) calculated
from a .deh/.ddf file; on the other hand it's something that SLIGE
*definitely* needs to have a number for, otherwise it can't do
its thing. Which is why I suspect it belongs in a SLIGE-specific
CFG file. No one else knows it, or needs to know it. Same for
the expected-damage stats.

>>> whether it can be a sniper
>
>Which means...?

Whether or not it makes sense to put one in a niche with a "blocks
monsters" linedef keeping it from charging. Riflemen and chaingun
guys make good snipers. Floating heads aren't bad. Them pink
running guys, and the flaming skulls, do a much worse job. *8)

This is very similar to "has a distant attack", except that
the flaming skulls sort of do have a distant attack (in that they
turn themselves into projectiles), but can't actually snipe.

>><g> In fact I was about to wonder where the heck you were and
>>whether Slige had been updated lately!!
>
>Maybe he's like me, except with a different outside obsession.:)

Numerous outside obsessions! See

http://www.davidchess.com/words/log.html

for constant updates... *8)

DC

Len Pitre

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Jun 26, 2001, 12:11:48 AM6/26/01
to
David M.Chess wrote:

>>>> how much ammo (in bullet-damage units or something) it takes for
>>>> an "I'm to young to die" player to kill one
>>>> how much ammo it takes for a "Hurt me plenty" player to kill one
>>>> how much ammo it takes for an Ultraviolence player to kill one
>>
>>This is sort of arbitrary, based on the idea of how much skill someone
>>who plays at that level takes.
>
>Arbitrary in that it's not something that can be (easily?) calculated
>from a .deh/.ddf file; on the other hand it's something that SLIGE
>*definitely* needs to have a number for, otherwise it can't do
>its thing.

Is it really that different for each monster, as far as percentages go? For
instance, does an ITYTD player use, say 150% the ammo a HMP player uses to
kill an imp, but uses 200% to kill a Baron?

>>>> whether it can be a sniper
>>
>>Which means...?
>
>Whether or not it makes sense to put one in a niche with a "blocks
>monsters" linedef keeping it from charging. Riflemen and chaingun
>guys make good snipers. Floating heads aren't bad. Them pink
>running guys, and the flaming skulls, do a much worse job. *8)

Ah, yes. The special case of Lost Souls (and, by extension, Pain Elementals).
I'd forgotten about those.

>>><g> In fact I was about to wonder where the heck you were and
>>>whether Slige had been updated lately!!
>>
>>Maybe he's like me, except with a different outside obsession.:)
>
>Numerous outside obsessions! See
>
> http://www.davidchess.com/words/log.html
>
>for constant updates... *8)

Being the self-aggrandizing fellow I am, I'm going to tie this in with my page
of obsessions - http://archonrealm.cjb.net/cathink3.htm (not to be confused
with my page of general ranting: http://archonrealm.cjb.net/cathinkn.htm )....

"Run Lola Run, huh? (...) I loved this movie. Story of my life." - Vanessa
Whitaker, "Roswell"

David M.Chess

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Jun 26, 2001, 12:04:54 PM6/26/01
to
>Is it really that different for each monster, as far as percentages
>go? For instance, does an ITYTD player use, say 150% the ammo a HMP
>player uses to kill an imp, but uses 200% to kill a Baron?

The values that are in there now are just rough guesses that I
typed in many many moons ago. I imagine the percentages aren't
consistent. Should they be? Maybe! Maybe the CFG file could
have one mode where you specify all three (all six) values for
each monster, and another mode where you just specify one (two)
values for each monster, and then give %age conversions for
the various skill levels. An interesting thought!

> Being the self-aggrandizing fellow I am, I'm going to tie this in
> with my page of obsessions - http://archonrealm.cjb.net/cathink3.htm
> (not to be confused with my page of general ranting:
> http://archonrealm.cjb.net/cathinkn.htm )....

Cool! Been watching TV much lately? *8)

DC

Len Pitre

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Jun 27, 2001, 5:06:58 PM6/27/01
to
David M.Chess wrote:
>>Is it really that different for each monster, as far as percentages
>>go? For instance, does an ITYTD player use, say 150% the ammo a HMP
>>player uses to kill an imp, but uses 200% to kill a Baron?
>
>The values that are in there now are just rough guesses that I
>typed in many many moons ago. I imagine the percentages aren't
>consistent. Should they be? Maybe!

I don't know. I was just wondering, since it's been so long since I've been at
ITYTD skill and I don't think I could emulate it that well.

>Maybe the CFG file could
>have one mode where you specify all three (all six) values for
>each monster, and another mode where you just specify one (two)
>values for each monster, and then give %age conversions for
>the various skill levels. An interesting thought!

Or maybe just take a guess at unknowns using an average percentage of the ones
it does know.

>> Being the self-aggrandizing fellow I am, I'm going to tie this in
>> with my page of obsessions - http://archonrealm.cjb.net/cathink3.htm
>> (not to be confused with my page of general ranting:
>> http://archonrealm.cjb.net/cathinkn.htm )....
>
>Cool! Been watching TV much lately? *8)

Just too much Martial Law - one hour a weeknight.:) I tried to see a few
episodes of Roswell (for reasons plainly denoted in a June 4, 2001 AD entry)
but the WB dropped the show. (Been picked up by the UPN, but that doesn't do
me any good, since the character I was tuning in for was dry-roasted by a live
wire early in season 2. I wonder how multi-network reruns work.... I guess
they just treat 'em like two different shows?)

That page started off when I made a few comments on the glaringly painful
problems with one or two episodes of Martial Law and then sort of expanded it
to commentary on every episode, mostly to keep track of odd things I'd see in
one episode that turned out to be multi-episodic trends. I'm clearly writing
it for myself and just tossing it up on the Internet in some odd bid at
self-gratification; it takes me as long to write the thing as it does to watch
the show! I've done half of them now, and the HTML of the latest (unuploaded)
version is 150K! Add images and it pushes half a meg. Once season one finishes
showing on TNN next week, I think I'll re-rig the page into episodic order.

Len Pitre

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Jun 27, 2001, 5:16:51 PM6/27/01
to
Rez wrote:
>>Is it really that different for each monster, as far as percentages go? For
>>instance, does an ITYTD player use, say 150% the ammo a HMP player uses to
>>kill an imp, but uses 200% to kill a Baron?
>
>Well, I can tell you when I was green, I could run out of ammo in
>Ep.1 on skill 2, and often did so at the start of E1M3. No shit. How
>embarrassing :)

Heh.:)

>>>Numerous outside obsessions! See
>>> http://www.davidchess.com/words/log.html
>>>for constant updates... *8)
>>Being the self-aggrandizing fellow I am, I'm going to tie this in with my page
>
>>of obsessions - http://archonrealm.cjb.net/cathink3.htm (not to be confused
>>with my page of general ranting: http://archonrealm.cjb.net/cathinkn.htm )....
>

>We obsessed sorts must stick together, or we will all come unstuck :)

What are we going to stick together with...?

Amarande

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Jun 28, 2001, 3:30:29 PM6/28/01
to
On Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:38:11 GMT, askme...@earthlink.net (Rez)
dumped into the public bit supply:

>In article <8YTZ6.119$_H.5...@sapphire.mtt.net>, I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com (Len Pitre) wrote:


>>David M.Chess wrote:
>>
>>Is it really that different for each monster, as far as percentages go? For
>>instance, does an ITYTD player use, say 150% the ammo a HMP player uses to
>>kill an imp, but uses 200% to kill a Baron?
>

>Well, I can tell you when I was green, I could run out of ammo in
>Ep.1 on skill 2, and often did so at the start of E1M3. No shit. How
>embarrassing :)

Yeah, but you can't really link the skill levels to absolute player
skill, especially today, when WADs tend to be harder than they used to
be.

Hell Revealed on ITYTD, for instance, can be as hard or harder than
some older classic WADs (MM1, for instance), on UV. I, for instance,
tend to get pretty far in MM1 on UV, but I still don't often get past
level 16 of HR playing it through, even on ITYTD - and I'm an
experienced player who rarely misses shots.

(Speaking of missed shots, has anyone else ever had a strange
occurrence where they shoot something dead on at point blank with the
SSG, yet do no discernible damage at all? ... I can never seem to
figure out why. It usually happens with things such as imps, demons,
or spectres ...)

Perhaps how much ammo wastage is permitted at each skill level should
also be configurable? ...

Led

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Jun 28, 2001, 7:48:07 PM6/28/01
to
Amarande writes

> [...]


> (Speaking of missed shots, has anyone
> else ever had a strange occurrence where
> they shoot something dead on at point
> blank with the SSG, yet do no discernible
> damage at all? ...

> [...]

I think it's a semi-random bug that tends to pop up more often in some places
than in others. Something about the design of the map (nearby walls/rooms) can
bring it out.
If you have the Master Levels CD, load up MANOR.WAD and check out the demo
here:
http://m1.aol.com/ledmeister/odddemos.htm#13
(look for MANORMIS.LMP). I meet up with a Sergeant and blast him a few times
with the SSG at close range. A couple of the shots MIGHT have missed, but
there's at least one that HAD to have hit, but didn't... funny thing is, if I
turn on the map cheats during playback I can't see the pellets hit anything,
anywhere on the map.
In the same WAD the bug turns up even more frequently in one of the other
rooms... but I never did get a demo there.

--Led

Support for console and PC Doom games
http://m1.aol.com/ledmeister

Len Pitre

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Jun 29, 2001, 3:09:44 PM6/29/01
to
Rez wrote:
>
>>ITYTD skill and I don't think I could emulate it that well.
>
>Kill your strafe key and you'll get a good approximation.

Just the thought of doing that scares me!

>>Just too much Martial Law - one hour a weeknight.:) I tried to see a few
>>episodes of Roswell (for reasons plainly denoted in a June 4, 2001 AD entry)
>>but the WB dropped the show. (Been picked up by the UPN, but that doesn't do
>

>Oh yeah? Cool. I can get the UPN channel well enough to at least have
>a fuzzy idea of what's going on -- but the WB channel has been nothing
>but a staticky soundtrack for a couple years now.

I get some channels with no sound but okay picture. I'll send you a copy of
the video that you can play the audio to.:)

"During commercials they play the local feed audio and the national feed
video. I was sitting here wondering why Colin Powell was doing a public
service announcement for a Chicago stage show."

- Heard on WGN

>>me any good, since the character I was tuning in for was dry-roasted by a live
>
>>wire early in season 2. I wonder how multi-network reruns work.... I guess
>>they just treat 'em like two different shows?)
>

>They're entirely independent.

I figured.

>>the show! I've done half of them now, and the HTML of the latest (unuploaded)
>>version is 150K! Add images and it pushes half a meg. Once season one finishes
>
>>showing on TNN next week, I think I'll re-rig the page into episodic order.
>

>Len's ML Roast site, get 'em while they're hot!

Yeah, though I've lightened up on Lee Goldberg a bit and taken a heavier hand
to Carlton Cuse, since re-watching the Cuse stuff (season one) plainly reveals
that the last few episodes of season one had many of the same problems of
season two. I also wrote "Len's Lack-of-Sleep Litanies 1.0", something that
got on my mind when I was falling asleep and didn't let go 'til I wrote it
out. (And I'm paying for it today!) Basically, Lee Goldberg had mentioned on
his site some of the stuff that would have happened in season three had the
show not been cancelled. In the end, I extrapolated it into the following
script idea: "A woman who's a bit of a fangirl (newly-wed to a man who's
cheated on her at least once) and the hunky object-of-her-fangirlishness get
trapped somewhere confining." And I thought I wrote bent stuff based on
EXISTING shows.

And I told a dirty joke.:)

160K and counting....

Len Pitre

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Jun 29, 2001, 3:14:04 PM6/29/01
to
Rez wrote:

>>>We obsessed sorts must stick together, or we will all come unstuck :)
>>What are we going to stick together with...?
>

>Duct tape, of course!! As everyone knows, it binds the rest of the
>universe together;

Except for ducts.:)

>surely it can keep a few obsessives from wandering off. :)

Okay, but if I ever go see an off-Broadway show with gratuitous nude scenes,
you're buying your own damn ticket.:)

Amarande

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Jun 30, 2001, 3:29:15 AM6/30/01
to
On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 05:38:18 GMT, askme...@earthlink.net (Rez)

dumped into the public bit supply:

>>Hell Revealed on ITYTD, for instance, can be as hard or harder than


>>some older classic WADs (MM1, for instance), on UV. I, for instance,
>>tend to get pretty far in MM1 on UV, but I still don't often get past
>>level 16 of HR playing it through, even on ITYTD - and I'm an
>>experienced player who rarely misses shots.
>

>Nowadays I can do all the MM1/2 maps on UV without excessive trouble.

BTW, have you figured out yet how to do MM1 level 30 with straight
100's and absolutely no real danger or time pressure whatsoever?
(Unfortunately, the technique involved, which I will let you a chance
to figure out before I tell you, seems to be impracticable for any
sort of speed run ...) :>

>IIRC I got to map 20 or so in HR on UV before bailing out, mainly
>because I was sick and tired of "trading rockets" with the endless
>barons and cybes. IMO, HR is mostly rather tedious. Any map that has,
>and NEEDS, 1500 rockets, has some pretty severe issues.

Yes, cyberdemons and spiderbosses tend to be boring, and even in
super-hard WADs they are often not really all that appropriate. For
instance, the as yet unreleased Dark Quadrant level 13 is one of the
largest levels made for DOOM II (so large that it prompted the
switchover of DQ from a straight DOOM II to a BOOM project - it was to
be a plain DOOM II project, but the size of the level made it crash
the DOOM II engine, so I decided to just move the whole thing to BOOM
and make use of its special features), yet features only 334 monsters,
and only 2 cyberdemons, with no spider bosses at all.

I tend to find that Arch-Viles are the best monsters to use in
quantity if you want a level to be hard. DQ 13, for instance, has 21.
Even then, you don't want to use *too* many.

>>Perhaps how much ammo wastage is permitted at each skill level should
>>also be configurable? ...
>

>Well, that starts to interfere with how the engine works, and IMO
>becomes a sort of cheat.

However, given that such things as DMTHA, WADWHAT, and Son of WADWHAT
(The new thing I saw posted a few months or a year or so ago that's a
lot like WADWHAT. What *is* that thing actually called, anyway?) seem
to use the ammo:monster ratio as the chief measure of difficulty,
being able to set that ratio seems like a good idea.

Colin Phipps

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Jun 30, 2001, 11:26:18 AM6/30/01
to
In article <20010628194807...@ng-fi1.aol.com>, Led wrote:
> Amarande writes
>
>> [...]
>> (Speaking of missed shots, has anyone else ever had a strange occurrence
>> where they shoot something dead on at point blank with the SSG, yet do no
>> discernible damage at all? ...
>> [...]
>
> I think it's a semi-random bug that tends to pop up more often in some places
> than in others. Something about the design of the map (nearby walls/rooms)
> can bring it out.

I was intrigued by this so I decided to take a look in more detail...

> If you have the Master Levels CD, load up MANOR.WAD and check out the demo
> here:
> http://m1.aol.com/ledmeister/odddemos.htm#13
> (look for MANORMIS.LMP). I meet up with a Sergeant and blast him a few times
> with the SSG at close range. A couple of the shots MIGHT have missed, but
> there's at least one that HAD to have hit, but didn't...

It's caused by a combination of two bugs it seems:

- in original Doom, an error in the blockmap lines iterator meant that linedef 0
is considered to be in every blockmap block (this was fixed in Boom)
- an overflow in the linedef intersection code means that a line can be
calculated to be much closer than it really is (apparently unfixed to this
day, but unlikely to be triggered in practice)

In manor.wad, linedef 0 is a very long line and a long way away, and inside that
room the calculation happens to overflow to a very small result. So doom2.exe
thinks the shots hit linedef 0 before anything else.

> funny thing is, if I turn on the map cheats during playback I can't see the
> pellets hit anything, anywhere on the map.

It hits linedef 0, but in manor.wad linedef 0 is in an outdoor area, so it's
assumed to have hit sky (YADB) so no puff is created.

> In the same WAD the bug turns up even more frequently in one of the other
> rooms... but I never did get a demo there.

Basically one should avoid having a long linedef 0 (well, frankly one should
avoid using doom2.exe :)

--
Colin Phipps <cph...@doomworld.com> http://www.cph.demon.co.uk/

Amarande

unread,
Jun 30, 2001, 5:22:42 PM6/30/01
to
On Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:26:18 GMT, cph...@doomworld.com (Colin Phipps)

dumped into the public bit supply:

>Basically one should avoid having a long linedef 0 (well, frankly one should
>avoid using doom2.exe :)

Yep, even I, who was going to insist that my megawad project remain
doom2.exe, ended up switching to Boom.

Although this wasn't so much because I wanted to use Boom, as that, as
I mentioned, one of the levels ended up being so large that it caused
venetian blinds in doom2.exe. So I just decided to switch to Boom
anyway, and find that I actually like using the Boom features. :)

The only thing that annoys me is that I had to scrap one of the levels
I happened to like (former DQ 19 - it was a small rocky level inspired
by Icarus levels 24 and 25) because it is impossible to guarantee that
ghosts will occur in Boom, as this is dependent on the user's
configuration, and the default configuration does not produce ghosts.

It would be really nice if it was possible to configure on a level by
level basis which levels could create ghosts, but this doesn't seem to
be possible, except maybe in ZDoom, and ZDoom is an impracticable
possibility because too many of the current Dark Quadrant levels have
architecture that would make parts of the level ridiculously easy if
jumping was permitted, and once again, I cannot find a way to
guarantee that the user's configuration will not permit jumping, so
ZDoom is out, and thus any level by level configuration of this sort
is out ... :/

Led

unread,
Jun 30, 2001, 9:56:20 PM6/30/01
to
Excellent detective work, Colin. :) It's cool that someone finally figured
that one out.

Anyone feel like trying to nail down the All Ghosts bug (all monsters and
players suddenly become ghosts)?
Opulent and some others here should know where to find the Doom 1 example of a
player encountering the bug during a Nightmare game on map E1M3.
Some Doom 2 Master Levels examples of the bug are here:
http://m1.aol.com/ledmeister/manorbug.lmp
(for Manor.wad, most illustrative demo of that bug on my site)
http://m1.aol.com/ledmeister/meph-bug.lmp
(Mephisto.wad)
http://m1.aol.com/ledmeister/blackbug.lmp
(Blacktwr.wad, fastest demo)
I'd strongly suggest playing them back only under DOS Doom II v1.9... otherwise
they might not play back correctly, and/or may lock up the game or your
computer.

Last edition of the Ghost FAQ (describes general symptoms of Ghosting) is here,
if it helps track down the bug:
http://m1.aol.com/ledmeister/ghostfaq.htm

:)

Led

unread,
Jun 30, 2001, 10:14:48 PM6/30/01
to
Whups, in editing I cut a sentence but forgot to paste...
Ahem:
"It might be interesting to see if a WAD could ever be designed that could
force the bug to occur."
(The "All-ghosts" bug, that is.)

:)

opu...@goodnet.com

unread,
Jul 1, 2001, 1:22:42 AM7/1/01
to
http://www.goodnet.com/~opulent/n1m3bug.zip

Donatas Tamonis playing.
personally, I have gotten this bug 3 times -- all on Hell Revealed.
only seen it with doom(2).exe
the other 3 demos are on my demos page.

strange miscalculation.
Opulent

Colin Phipps

unread,
Jul 1, 2001, 9:16:19 AM7/1/01
to
In article <20010630215620...@ng-md1.aol.com>, Led wrote:
> Anyone feel like trying to nail down the All Ghosts bug (all monsters and
> players suddenly become ghosts)?
> Opulent and some others here should know where to find the Doom 1 example of a
> player encountering the bug during a Nightmare game on map E1M3.
> Some Doom 2 Master Levels examples of the bug are here:
> http://m1.aol.com/ledmeister/manorbug.lmp
> (for Manor.wad, most illustrative demo of that bug on my site)

Looks like it's causes by an intercepts overflow; on that demo it SEGV's in
linuxxdoom-1.10:

Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x80645df in PIT_AddThingIntercepts (thing=0x40323720) at p_maputl.c:671
671 intercept_p->d.thing = thing;

(interestingly, it's actually the sergeant shooting at the player when this
occurs on manorbug.lmp)

extern intercept_t intercepts[MAXINTERCEPTS];
extern intercept_t* intercept_p;

As soon as Doom exceeds MAXINTERCEPTS, intercept_p gets overwritten and it
starts trashing memory. Fixed in Boom (without demo compatibility, but it's
kinda hard to be demo compatible with that kind of lunacy :).

opu...@goodnet.com

unread,
Jul 1, 2001, 10:41:01 AM7/1/01
to
neat!
thanks Colin.

Led

unread,
Jul 1, 2001, 11:13:24 AM7/1/01
to
Cool! Thank you sir.

Colin wrote:

> [...] As soon as Doom exceeds


> MAXINTERCEPTS, intercept_p gets
> overwritten and it starts trashing memory.

--Led

Led

unread,
Jul 1, 2001, 11:20:15 AM7/1/01
to
Opulent writes:

Yes, that's it. :)

> personally, I have gotten this bug 3 times
> -- all on Hell Revealed.
> only seen it with doom(2).exe

Yeah, I've never had it happen with Doom 1; And don't think I've seen it happen
with Doom 2's built-in maps, with the possible exception of MAP30.

Andre Majorel

unread,
Jul 6, 2001, 5:39:31 AM7/6/01
to
In article <0kvqjtk7d8oirs2b5...@4ax.com>, Amarande wrote:

>BTW, have you figured out yet how to do MM1 level 30 with straight
>100's and absolutely no real danger or time pressure whatsoever?
>(Unfortunately, the technique involved, which I will let you a chance
>to figure out before I tell you, seems to be impracticable for any
>sort of speed run ...) :>

I gave it a try and couldn't figure out any. How do you do that ?
Give us a clue !

--
André Majorel <amaj...@teezer.fr> (it's really "teaser")
http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/

"UNIX® is the essential partner for eyespot or rynchosporium
control in barley." -- Advertisement for a fungicide

Amarande

unread,
Jul 6, 2001, 5:56:22 PM7/6/01
to
On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:39:31 +0000 (UTC), a...@vulcain.knox.com (Andre
Majorel) dumped into the public bit supply:

>In article <0kvqjtk7d8oirs2b5...@4ax.com>, Amarande wrote:
>
>>BTW, have you figured out yet how to do MM1 level 30 with straight
>>100's and absolutely no real danger or time pressure whatsoever?
>>(Unfortunately, the technique involved, which I will let you a chance
>>to figure out before I tell you, seems to be impracticable for any
>>sort of speed run ...) :>
>
>I gave it a try and couldn't figure out any. How do you do that ?

I discovered rather quickly that the Spawner will never wake up unless
you fire a shot -while inside the building it's in-. I.e., the place
you teleport to that's full of imps, a health sphere, and the switch
to reveal the place where you have to shoot to destroy Romero's Head.

It turns out that it is possible to kill all of the imps inside this
building with rockets from below. You generally have to stand in the
burning muck, though, so it's a good thing there's all those
megaspheres on the level :> However, once all of the imps there are
dead, you can just kill the few remaining monsters (I believe there
are less than 20 nonspawned monsters on that level other than the imps
in the spawner building), teleport to the building, get the goodie and
flip the switch, teleport back, kill the Revenants, and then destroy
the Cyberdemon and Romero's Head.

BTW, the Cyberdemon can be killed from below also, though once again
you have to stand in the damage area. You still need to go up on the
lift to destroy Romero's Head as far as I can tell.

Andre Majorel

unread,
Jul 7, 2001, 2:35:38 PM7/7/01
to
In article <cocckt8cdsf4ge9rj...@4ax.com>, Amarande wrote:
>On Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:39:31 +0000 (UTC), a...@vulcain.knox.com (Andre
>Majorel) dumped into the public bit supply:
>
>>In article <0kvqjtk7d8oirs2b5...@4ax.com>, Amarande wrote:
>>
>>>BTW, have you figured out yet how to do MM1 level 30 with straight
>>>100's and absolutely no real danger or time pressure whatsoever?
>>>(Unfortunately, the technique involved, which I will let you a chance
>>>to figure out before I tell you, seems to be impracticable for any
>>>sort of speed run ...) :>
>>
>>I gave it a try and couldn't figure out any. How do you do that ?
>
>I discovered rather quickly that the Spawner will never wake up unless
>you fire a shot -while inside the building it's in-. I.e., the place
>you teleport to that's full of imps, a health sphere, and the switch
>to reveal the place where you have to shoot to destroy Romero's Head.
>
>It turns out that it is possible to kill all of the imps inside this
>building with rockets from below. You generally have to stand in the
>burning muck, though, so it's a good thing there's all those
>megaspheres on the level :> However, once all of the imps there are
>dead, you can just kill the few remaining monsters (I believe there
>are less than 20 nonspawned monsters on that level other than the imps
>in the spawner building), teleport to the building, get the goodie and
>flip the switch, teleport back, kill the Revenants, and then destroy
>the Cyberdemon and Romero's Head.

Neat trick ! Milo Casali must have had that in mind when he
wrote the level because he carefully enclosed the demon building
in sound-blocking linedefs, but not so as to prevent the boss
from hearing noise in the other parts of the building.

>You still need to go up on the lift to destroy Romero's Head as
>far as I can tell.

And even that way, I find it hard.

Len Pitre

unread,
Jul 7, 2001, 3:25:56 PM7/7/01
to
Rez wrote:
>>>>>We obsessed sorts must stick together, or we will all come unstuck :)
>>>>What are we going to stick together with...?
>>>Duct tape, of course!! As everyone knows, it binds the rest of the
>>>universe together;
>>Except for ducts.:)
>
>Um, ya know, you're right.

Apparently someone tried it on a lark by sticking bits of it to whatever they
could find. The only thing it didn't work well for was ductwork. (I know a guy
who used it to patch his work pants. Before long there was more tape than
pants.)

>What holds ducts together? For that matter,
>what holds duct tape together??

A fundamental force of nature.:)

>>>surely it can keep a few obsessives from wandering off. :)
>>Okay, but if I ever go see an off-Broadway show with gratuitous nude scenes,
>>you're buying your own damn ticket.:)
>

>Oh come now, if I come all that way to see a show, the least you could
>do is treat me... no, no, not what you're thinking!! :D

I'm not going to let you sit on my lap, either.:)

Len Pitre

unread,
Jul 7, 2001, 3:26:00 PM7/7/01
to
Rez wrote:
>>>Kill your strafe key and you'll get a good approximation.
>>Just the thought of doing that scares me!
>
>I always played Gumby until BOOM let me configure the WinKey for
>strafe -- first time I could use one that was comfortable to my hands.
>And now I can't do without it. Well, at least I have to relearn how to
>do without it.

It'd be painful, since I've used it from day one.

>>I get some channels with no sound but okay picture. I'll send you a copy of
>>the video that you can play the audio to.:)
>

>It's a deal!

Okay, now just get me the audio for the first three minutes of "The Talented
Mr. Ripley" and I'll be happy.:)

>>"During commercials they play the local feed audio and the national feed
>>video. I was sitting here wondering why Colin Powell was doing a public
>>service announcement for a Chicago stage show."
>

>Yeah, I've seen stuff like that!

I'm still thinking of the horse's ass that was onscreen during the voiceover,
"Hello, I'm Bob Vila." Never gets old, just wish I had it on tape.:)

>>season two. I also wrote "Len's Lack-of-Sleep Litanies 1.0", something that
>

><snork>


>
>>got on my mind when I was falling asleep and didn't let go 'til I wrote it
>>out. (And I'm paying for it today!) Basically, Lee Goldberg had mentioned on
>

>I've had that happen a time or two!! And have learned to give in,
>because 1) otherwise you can't sleep anyway, 2) if you DO speel, I
>mean sleep, you lose the scene and then you're ticked.

Yep. I've been up until 3:00 AM on one of those things, but otherwise I just
toss and turn until around then anyway.

>>cheated on her at least once) and the hunky object-of-her-fangirlishness get
>>trapped somewhere confining." And I thought I wrote bent stuff based on
>>EXISTING shows.
>

>I know! a new series that takes place entirely trapped on an elevator!

That would be an idea for a bare stage kind of thing.:) Hard to do character
entries and exits, though. ("I got here as soon as I could. I had to... run up
the cable!")

>>And I told a dirty joke.:)
>>160K and counting....

234K and counting....

>All dirty jokes? :)

Nah, just the one about "Titty bum titty bum titty bum bum bum."

Though some of the item headings are kind of crass.:)

Amarande

unread,
Jul 8, 2001, 4:53:57 AM7/8/01
to
On Sun, 08 Jul 2001 05:27:20 GMT, askme...@earthlink.net (Rez)

dumped into the public bit supply:

>I used to be pretty good at it -- hell, I did HR first time that way!

Um, how'd you get past level 11 without strafe or cheating? As far as
I can tell, one of the switches that must be used to complete the
level MUST be reached via a strafe jump.

At least, *I* can't seem to get there Gumby, monsters or not.

Len Pitre

unread,
Jul 8, 2001, 10:24:29 PM7/8/01
to
Rez wrote:

>>Apparently someone tried it on a lark by sticking bits of it to whatever they
>>could find. The only thing it didn't work well for was ductwork. (I know a guy
>>who used it to patch his work pants. Before long there was more tape than
>>pants.)
>

>I've got a down jacket that has more down held in by duct tape than by
>fabric :)

Doesn't it chafe?:)

>>>What holds ducts together? For that matter,
>>>what holds duct tape together??
>> A fundamental force of nature.:)
>

>Must be the Dark Side :)

"Duct Tape and the Grand Unified Theory" by D. Vader.

>>>>>surely it can keep a few obsessives from wandering off. :)
>>>>Okay, but if I ever go see an off-Broadway show with gratuitous nude scenes,
>>>>you're buying your own damn ticket.:)
>>>Oh come now, if I come all that way to see a show, the least you could
>>>do is treat me... no, no, not what you're thinking!! :D
>>I'm not going to let you sit on my lap, either.:)
>

>Well, next time don't be so cheap -- reserve two seats! :)

Maybe I should reserve four so there'll be a buffer zone.:)

Len Pitre

unread,
Jul 8, 2001, 10:25:37 PM7/8/01
to
Rez wrote:

>>>And now I can't do without it. Well, at least I have to relearn how to
>>>do without it.
>>It'd be painful, since I've used it from day one.
>

>I used to be pretty good at it -- hell, I did HR first time that way!

Aiie! I can't do HR, period. Not without a lot of saving and reloading.

>>Okay, now just get me the audio for the first three minutes of "The Talented
>>Mr. Ripley" and I'll be happy.:)
>

>Alas, I haven't seen or heard any minutes of it!

I've seen it, but didn't hear it (the wonders of attempting to steal premium
TV on short notice - no sound). Sort of dulls the impact when it's a singing
bit.

>>I'm still thinking of the horse's ass that was onscreen during the voiceover,
>>"Hello, I'm Bob Vila." Never gets old, just wish I had it on tape.:)
>

><snork> Yeah, the last person I'd let touch my house :)

I can't hammer two boards together with any skill and *I've* winced at his
incompetence.

>>Yep. I've been up until 3:00 AM on one of those things, but otherwise I just
>>toss and turn until around then anyway.
>

>One trick, tho, is to write it in your head, same story over and over
>every night, just tweaking details or dialog. After a while you'll get
>yourself trained to fall asleep the moment you start in on that story!

From boredom?;)

>>>>And I told a dirty joke.:)
>>>>160K and counting....
>>234K and counting....
>

><eeep> UL'd yet?

Not yet. I'm going to punch it up a bit (two items I might need to add yet to
Friday's rant) and then upload.

>>>All dirty jokes? :)
>>Nah, just the one about "Titty bum titty bum titty bum bum bum."

Have you actually heard that one?:)

>And Tweedlebum and Tweedled-- never mind :)

:)

>>Though some of the item headings are kind of crass.:)
>

>Same ones as inflicted on the list today? :)

Yes. Disturbing, isn't it? :)

Len Pitre

unread,
Jul 14, 2001, 6:17:52 PM7/14/01
to
Rez wrote:

>>>I used to be pretty good at it -- hell, I did HR first time that way!
>>Aiie! I can't do HR, period. Not without a lot of saving and reloading.
>

>The older maps in the set aren't real hard (aren't real good either).

Wasn't there a 7-map version released at some early point? I remember playing
one like that.

>Some of 'em, yeah, I did more saving/reloading than playing. I did
>once get about halfway thru map15 w/o saving, tho, much to everyone's
>astonishment (especially since I think I've only been there twice in
>all). I really don't care much for the maps, they're too repetitive,
>and either too easy or too hard with very little sense of balance.

Yeah.

>For lack of anything newer to do, the other day I went thru the older
>Kessler maps, and that's a problem there too -- not for "hard" (the
>monsters are more or less okay-placed) but no balance. He just sorta
>flings tons of ammo at the maps. While I don't like having to
>=constantly= worry about spending that single needless bullet, having
>ammo laying around in PILES isn't so good either.

I don't remember much of those maps. Except one thing in my early
messing-with-DEH days where I had replaced the Barons with flying monsters,
then replayed the level. I got the wits scared out of me when one flew across
a lavapit to meet me.:)

>>>>I'm still thinking of the horse's ass that was onscreen during the
> voiceover,
>>>>"Hello, I'm Bob Vila." Never gets old, just wish I had it on tape.:)
>>><snork> Yeah, the last person I'd let touch my house :)
>>I can't hammer two boards together with any skill and *I've* winced at his
>>incompetence.
>

>What I build usually stays up, but I often do it the hard way, or so I
>find out later when I watch a real carpenter :) And what I build may
>be difficult to recognise. Once I was trying to get 3 equal boxes off
>a 12' long piece. Easy, right? Er... wanna explain why I had 'em of
>widths 4', 3.5', and 4.5' when I was done??!

:D That's one of my tricks, too. Of course, I inherited it. My father is known
for taking a 48x36 inch piece of (ply?)wood and, to saw a 12x36 slice off of
it, sawing the 36 inches out of the 48 long side, and the 12 inches out of the
36 inch long side!

>>>One trick, tho, is to write it in your head, same story over and over
>>>every night, just tweaking details or dialog. After a while you'll get
>>>yourself trained to fall asleep the moment you start in on that story!
>>From boredom?;)
>

>And the habit of eventually falling asleep while doing it. It's more
>the habit than the boredom.

Ah. But there's clearly boredom.:)

>>>>>>And I told a dirty joke.:)
>>>>>>160K and counting....
>>>>234K and counting....

The version on my HD is now one episode away from breaching the 300K mark.

>>><eeep> UL'd yet?
>>Not yet. I'm going to punch it up a bit (two items I might need to add yet to
>>Friday's rant) and then upload.
>

>Ah. Just as well I forgot to go look :)

It's there now, as you may know.:)

>>>>>All dirty jokes? :)
>>>>Nah, just the one about "Titty bum titty bum titty bum bum bum."
>>Have you actually heard that one?:)
>

>No??

To quote my webpage.... It went something like "What song do you get when you
see a naked woman facing towards you, a naked woman facing away from you, a
naked woman facing towards you, a naked woman facing away from you, a naked
woman facing towards you, and three naked woman facing away from you?"

Answer: The William Tell Overture. (Sing "Titty bum titty bum titty bum bum
bum!" to the classic eight-note bit that symbolizes the overture and you'll
figure it out, eventually.)

>>>And Tweedlebum and Tweedled-- never mind :)
>>:)
>

>Ya know, we could still reserve those seats... :)

No thankee.:)

>>>>Though some of the item headings are kind of crass.:)
>>>Same ones as inflicted on the list today? :)
>>Yes. Disturbing, isn't it? :)
>

>No more than usual :)

No more than the affixed text.:)

Matthew W. Miller

unread,
Jul 15, 2001, 11:14:13 PM7/15/01
to
On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 21:05:50 GMT, Rez <askme...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>For lack of anything newer to do, the other day I went thru the older
>Kessler maps, and that's a problem there too -- not for "hard" (the
>monsters are more or less okay-placed) but no balance. He just sorta
>flings tons of ammo at the maps. While I don't like having to
>=constantly= worry about spending that single needless bullet, having
>ammo laying around in PILES isn't so good either.

Kind of like MM2 map 30, aren't they? "Picked up a backpack full of
ammo!" Oh boy, I'll add it to my collection.

>>>>I'm still thinking of the horse's ass that was onscreen during the voiceover,
>>>>"Hello, I'm Bob Vila." Never gets old, just wish I had it on tape.:)
>>><snork> Yeah, the last person I'd let touch my house :)

Do you mean Bob, or the horse?
--
Matthew W. Miller -- mwmi...@columbus.rr.com

Len Pitre

unread,
Jul 20, 2001, 1:24:07 PM7/20/01
to
Rez wrote:
>>Wasn't there a 7-map version released at some early point? I remember playing
>>one like that.
>
>Yeah, 7 or 10 or 11, I forget.

So do I. I must have been impressed!:)

>>I don't remember much of those maps. Except one thing in my early
>>messing-with-DEH days where I had replaced the Barons with flying monsters,
>>then replayed the level. I got the wits scared out of me when one flew across
>>a lavapit to meet me.:)
>

>Tee hee!! Yeah, that'd make you jump, all right -- and run the other
>way, as soon as you got your feet and your gun disentangled :)

Scared the wits out of me when they flew *over* a crate maze and came to get
me.

>>for taking a 48x36 inch piece of (ply?)wood and, to saw a 12x36 slice off of
>>it, sawing the 36 inches out of the 48 long side, and the 12 inches out of the
>
>>36 inch long side!
>

>Oooh, that sounds like my mom. First side she comes to of anything.
>Me, I fiddle and measure and try to squeeze everything out of the same
>board twice. And I'll use up every scrap. Trouble is the end result :)

At least you don't have a bunch of gnomon* boards when you're done.

(*L-shaped, basically.)

>>>And the habit of eventually falling asleep while doing it. It's more
>>>the habit than the boredom.
>>Ah. But there's clearly boredom.:)
>

>I'll fall asleep when I intend to develop some new idea, so it really
>is mostly the habit.

Oh, that reminds me. I was going to write up an outline for a new movie.
Catechistic Park. Can't go into detail without blasphemizing.:)

>>The version on my HD is now one episode away from breaching the 300K mark.
>

>Get that baby ready for syndication! :)

It should.:) I'm going to break it up into smaller (100K?) bits later with a
bit of editing to make it episodic and not in chronological order. I'll keep
the full page somewhere, though.:)

>>>>Friday's rant) and then upload.
>>>Ah. Just as well I forgot to go look :)
>>It's there now, as you may know.:)
>

>The one I just commented on?

Yeah.

>>To quote my webpage.... It went something like "What song do you get when you
>>see a naked woman facing towards you, a naked woman facing away from you, a
>>naked woman facing towards you, a naked woman facing away from you, a naked
>>woman facing towards you, and three naked woman facing away from you?"
>

>Oh! I missed that somehow! But it's an insanely funny image!!

I think that's the idea.:)

>And have 'em all turn around and discover the other side is a naked
>man! There was some commercial done that way once, real funny. (Only
>it just had a couple people, not eight)

We're back to those strippers I mentioned on my page.:)

>>Answer: The William Tell Overture. (Sing "Titty bum titty bum titty bum bum
>>bum!" to the classic eight-note bit that symbolizes the overture and you'll
>>figure it out, eventually.)
>

><snork> Would you believe I tried first to fit it into Beethoven's
>5th??! (Where'd that come from?) Boy, did THAT not scan!!

No. Funny as hell trying, though.:)

>>>>And Tweedlebum and Tweedled-- never mind :)
>>>>:)
>>>Ya know, we could still reserve those seats... :)
>>No thankee.:)

>Not into travelling holidaze, eh? :)

That's for sure!

>>>>Yes. Disturbing, isn't it? :)
>>>No more than usual :)
>>No more than the affixed text.:)
>

>At least the headings serve as a warning :)

Some warning. My next bunch includes:

I'm not a lesbian, if that's what you mean!

Funny Chinese stoics:

Armando, Armando, Ah-Ah-Armando:

The world laughs at you, then claim they're laughing with you.

Chinamen are from Mars:

Non? What's "Non" mean? Oh, "No N"!

Offical police department press release: "Ticket Quota? Youse says it don't
exist or youse legs might get broke."

Dylan's Inferno:

Does not compute, you freaking moron:

What do you mean, the woman I'm lusting after is a Great Old One? She's only
in her twenties!

Can you be such a fanboy that even YOU can't stand yourself?

She's just like one of the guys. What do you mean, she's got a boyfriend? She
doesn't dress that butch because... hand me my pants!

Len Pitre

unread,
Jul 25, 2001, 12:40:14 AM7/25/01
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Rez wrote:
>>>>Wasn't there a 7-map version released at some early point? I remember
> playing
>>>>one like that.
>>>Yeah, 7 or 10 or 11, I forget.
>>So do I. I must have been impressed!:)
>
>I was so impressed, I can't remember what we're talking about :)

Hell Revealed.

>>>Tee hee!! Yeah, that'd make you jump, all right -- and run the other
>>>way, as soon as you got your feet and your gun disentangled :)
>>Scared the wits out of me when they flew *over* a crate maze and came to get
>>me.
>

>Which reminds me... rats can jump. I mean REALLY jump, like as high
>as your head if properly motivated. You see where I'm going with that?
><evil grin>

Yes.:) Problem is making sure they don't get too bouncy.

>>>Oooh, that sounds like my mom. First side she comes to of anything.
>>>Me, I fiddle and measure and try to squeeze everything out of the same
>>>board twice. And I'll use up every scrap. Trouble is the end result :)
>>At least you don't have a bunch of gnomon* boards when you're done.
>>(*L-shaped, basically.)
>

>Nope, I wind up with Pieces Too Small To Save!

:)

>(*this is a real word?)

Indeed it is. Learned it from the Infocom game "Trinity". It's actually the
part of the sundial that casts a shadow. It sort of got usurped to refer to
what's left of a parallelogram after a smaller copy is removed at one corner.
It comes from some Greek word "gignoskein", meaning "to know", from which we
also get the word "gnome" - the pithy saying, not the earth elemental.

>>Oh, that reminds me. I was going to write up an outline for a new movie.
>>Catechistic Park. Can't go into detail without blasphemizing.:)
>

>Oh, this one I can't wait to read!

Still need to write it. But I started from reading something about the Shroud
of Turin while an ad for the new Jurrasic Park flick was on, and my mind
started to warp the two concepts.

>>>>The version on my HD is now one episode away from breaching the 300K mark.
>>>Get that baby ready for syndication! :)
>>It should.:) I'm going to break it up into smaller (100K?) bits later with a
>>bit of editing to make it episodic and not in chronological order. I'll keep
>>the full page somewhere, though.:)
>

>Less scary to folk still on slow modems (or on the best connexion I
>could get today -- down in the low 21k range :(

Eeep! Maybe I'll break it up into 50K sections....

>>We're back to those strippers I mentioned on my page.:)
>

>Put a little whipped cream around the edges...

They can't make that much whipped cream.:)

>>>>>Ya know, we could still reserve those seats... :)
>>>>No thankee.:)
>>>Not into travelling holidaze, eh? :)
>>That's for sure!
>

>Too bad. I could drive. :)

You'd have to.:)

>>>At least the headings serve as a warning :)
>>Some warning. My next bunch includes:
>>
>>I'm not a lesbian, if that's what you mean!
>

>Are these your pants??

That sort of comes into play later, actually.:)

>>Chinamen are from Mars:
>
>No, they're from the pit Crispin and Monkey Boy dug in the back yard!

Wasn't Crispin in one of the King's Quest games?:)

>>Dylan's Inferno:
>
>"When they say Dylan, you think they're talking about a guy named
>Thomas!!"

LOL!

>>What do you mean, the woman I'm lusting after is a Great Old One? She's only
>>in her twenties!
>

>Spoken like a true 14 year old :)

Spoken like I just played something based off of Lovecraft's work and then
noticed some similarities between a Certain Name and some of Lovecraft's
torturously-named uber-beings.:)

>>Can you be such a fanboy that even YOU can't stand yourself?
>

>Now that's sick!

And about how I feel at times.

>>She's just like one of the guys. What do you mean, she's got a boyfriend? She
>>doesn't dress that butch because... hand me my pants!
>

>Hmm. Amazing how this list just came full circle <gd&r>

Full Circle is another of my headings, actually.:)

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