** DeeP 8.35 is now available **
Jack Vermeulen
Edits DOOM, DOOMII, Ultimate DOOM,
HERETIC or HEXEN in ONE program.
Hi all,
DeeP 8.35 is out and can be downloaded from the following sites:
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/newstuff/deep835s.zip
ftp://ftp.wolfenet.com/pub/sbs/deep835s.zip
Below is a complete list of what's new for DeeP 8.35. In case you're
wondering, intermediate versions were only shipped to registered
users.
There is a HTML enhanced version of this text available now at:
http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/whatsnew.html
The Official DeeP Home Page is at:
http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/
===========================================================================
Update summary for DPMI DeeP v8.35
The Second Official 1996 DeeP HEXEN release.
DeeP has Power, Speed and Ease of use. A long list of features you
Dream of: from Texture drawing, Map printing, Cut, Copy, Undo, and
Paste (even between different levels) to powerful -interactive-
WYSIWYG drawing tools.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following is a list of new features for those with prior versions
to see if the changes warrant an upgrade.
NOTE : To add the new features, prior projects need to be
reconstructed!
===========================================================================
New Features in DeeP 8.35
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Draw on any FLAT with more Awesome Direct Drawing (ADD)! Combine this
with the earlier Texture & Sprite drawing to make your level stand
out.
- You can draw dot-to-dot, snap lines, or free hand.
- Copy and paste pieces of one Flat to another (registered).
- Graphics pasting can rescale images.
Edit the look of any floor and ceiling and have it instantly show up
in your level with no complicated steps to follow. Either group the
modified FLATs with your level or add as -FILE ... and it works!
No other graphics program required.
= New file Paste option fills the paste buffer with -any- PWAD.
You can use this to make a library of shapes or take advantage of the
easiest way possible to precisely merge levels.
- New option to set the default paste path.
- New statistics on paste buffer contents.
= New command to save all FLATs in one file.
All the FLATs need to be together, you can't just add parts and pieces
as you can for wall textures. This commands makes it easy.
= New command to save all SPRITES in one file.
Don't like a weapon, change it! Works the same as Texture drawing.
SPRITES have the same requirement as FLATs, they all need to be in one
file if you want to change any of them.
= New command to save the palette to a text file.
Compatible with PaintShopPro or any JASC enabled graphics editor.
= Dump Lump command now repeats for quicker investigating of Lump
structures.
= Enhanced Thing editing:
- MAPSPOTS automatically prompt for Tids.
- TELEPORTS automatically prompt for Tids.
- POLYOBJs automatically prompt for Polyobject number.
= Any Architectural grid size now possible, not just a power of 2!
For example, a grid size of 25 is valid.
This is for advanced users who like to replicate to an exact scale.
Normally, you also supply custom textures to "fit like glove".
Press Shift+Ctrl+G and set any grid size you like.
= HEXENTUT.WAD version of tutorial level added.
We kept forgetting to show an example of the "metal grate" door, so
we finally remembered to show you how in this level. Yup, this works
for all the games.
See TUTORIAL.DOC for showing the HEXEN problem area in this level!
The PWAD also contains some simple scripting for sounds and a door
that swings open and closed.
= Save ALL graphics command is removed, since the two new ones above
are easier to work with. You can still save any Lump to a PWAD if you
want to touch up some of the other graphics, for example, the
introduction.
= Additional checks and information for HEXEN levels.
Tid and PolyId stats as well as node statistics. Press F1 in the node
viewer to view the statistics.
= New Help Index to find subject areas easier. Quickly browse areas
of interest. Very useful when starting out and helpful for quick DeeP
learning by experienced users.
= Changed grid minimum default to 2 (since many didn't know you can
set the range using F6 to anything you want).
Weird problems fixed:)
= Map level was inadvertantly closed and not reset when drawing on
textures.
= Error check for missing Tid and PolyId was always reporting -0-,
although the LineDef number was correct.
= Error check sometimes erroneously reported missing normal textures
after playing the game (whew, finally found it).
= The top menu scrolled sometimes making it "unreachable" (same whew
here).
..Watch this space for more advanced DOOM+HEXEN+HERETIC editor
features!..
Please review README.1ST and DeeP's homepage for prior features.
Mike Vermeulen
--
Visit the Official DeeP home page: http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/
Download DeeP from these FTP sites:
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/newstuff/deep835s.zip
ftp://ftp.wolfenet.com/pub/sbs/deep835s.zip <-- FAST!!
Questions relating to DeeP? E-mail: s...@wolfenet.com
Doug Bora
: DeeP 8.35 released!
:
: Edits DOOM, DOOMII, Ultimate DOOM,
: HERETIC or HEXEN in ONE program.
BTW, the FILE_ID.DIZ in this one was exactly correct.
--
Doug Bora
stig...@wwa.com
George R Faulkner
Vermeulen) writes:
>
> DeeP 8.35 released!
Wasn't DeeP 8.15 just released?
>
> Edits DOOM, DOOMII, Ultimate DOOM,
> HERETIC or HEXEN in ONE program.
Doom, Doom II, Ultimate Doom, Heretic, OR Hexen? Do you randomly
decide which it will edit? Perhaps you mean Doom, Doom II,
Ultimate Doom, Heretic, AND Hexen.
>
>Hi all,
Bye.
>
>DeeP 8.35 is out and can be downloaded from the following sites:
>
>ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/newstuff/deep835s.zip
Obviously.
>ftp://ftp.wolfenet.com/pub/sbs/deep835s.zip
>
>Below is a complete list of what's new for DeeP 8.35. In case you're
What's new for 8.35? How about a new editing style. I hate that
vertexes-up, low-level style editing.
>wondering, intermediate versions were only shipped to registered
>users.
>
>There is a HTML enhanced version of this text available now at:
>http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/whatsnew.html
No thanks, I don't feel like waiting 5 minutes to view the same
text except with a few useless GIF's.
>
>The Official DeeP Home Page is at:
>http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/
As if you didn't say that already.
>
>======================================================================
====
>
> Update summary for DPMI DeeP v8.35
Is there a non-DPMI version? If not, than why bother saying DPMI?
> The Second Official 1996 DeeP HEXEN release.
I'll stick to HCK for now, thank you very much.
>DeeP has Power, Speed and Ease of use. A long list of features you
I'm not sure about that "Ease of use" part.
>dream of: from Texture drawing, Map printing, Cut, Copy, Undo, and
>Paste (even between different levels) to powerful -interactive-
>WYSIWYG drawing tools.
<sarcasim mode on> Wow. It's even interactive. I hate all those
editors that aren't interactive. You just sit there and watch it
build a level for you. But not DeeP.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------
>
> The following is a list of new features for those with prior versions
>
> to see if the changes warrant an upgrade.
Or to see if the changes warrant downloading it at all.
>
>NOTE : To add the new features, prior projects need to be
>reconstructed!
>
>======================================================================
====
>
> New Features in DeeP 8.35
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>Draw on any FLAT with more Awesome Direct Drawing (ADD)! Combine this
>with the earlier Texture & Sprite drawing to make your level stand
>out.
I'll use WinTex for my graphics editing, thank you very much.
>
> - You can draw dot-to-dot, snap lines, or free hand.
> - Copy and paste pieces of one Flat to another (registered).
> - Graphics pasting can rescale images.
I think I'll draw my graphics in CorelPhotoPaint and PaintBrush
instead, and convert them with WinTex. Just a liddle bit easier,
and better quality drawing, too.
>
>Edit the look of any floor and ceiling and have it instantly show up
>in your level with no complicated steps to follow. Either group the
>modified FLATs with your level or add as -FILE ... and it works!
>
> No other graphics program required.
No other graphics program can be used with it, either.
>
>= New file Paste option fills the paste buffer with -any- PWAD.
>You can use this to make a library of shapes or take advantage of the
>easiest way possible to precisely merge levels.
I think DCK and HCK already have this feature.
>
> - New option to set the default paste path.
> - New statistics on paste buffer contents.
>
> = New command to save all FLATs in one file.
Do you mean like what DeuSF does? Supposedly that's not required, if
you save FLATS and SPRITES in the correct way.
>
>All the FLATs need to be together, you can't just add parts and pieces
>as you can for wall textures. This commands makes it easy.
Nope, you jsut need an F_END for the F_START, or something like that.
>
> = New command to save all SPRITES in one file.
Not required anymore.
>
>Don't like a weapon, change it! Works the same as Texture drawing.
DeHackEd is required for seriously changing a weapon.
>SPRITES have the same requirement as FLATs, they all need to be in one
>file if you want to change any of them.
>
> = New command to save the palette to a text file.
>Compatible with PaintShopPro or any JASC enabled graphics editor.
>
>= Dump Lump command now repeats for quicker investigating of Lump
>structures.
>
> = Enhanced Thing editing:
>
> - MAPSPOTS automatically prompt for Tids.
> - TELEPORTS automatically prompt for Tids.
> - POLYOBJs automatically prompt for Polyobject number.
Sounds useful.
>
> = Any Architectural grid size now possible, not just a power of 2!
> For example, a grid size of 25 is valid.
Hey, Ben Morris. You might want to do something like this in DCK. I
can't stand being able to snap only to the standard 64x64 grid. Makes
doors, windows, and indented switches a pain in the *ss.
>
>This is for advanced users who like to replicate to an exact scale.
>Normally, you also supply custom textures to "fit like glove".
>Press Shift+Ctrl+G and set any grid size you like.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
>
> = HEXENTUT.WAD version of tutorial level added.
> We kept forgetting to show an example of the "metal grate" door, so
>we finally remembered to show you how in this level. Yup, this works
>for all the games.
That's nice.
>
>See TUTORIAL.DOC for showing the HEXEN problem area in this level!
>The PWAD also contains some simple scripting for sounds and a door
>that swings open and closed.
Interesting.
>
> = Save ALL graphics command is removed, since the two new ones above
>are easier to work with. You can still save any Lump to a PWAD if you
>want to touch up some of the other graphics, for example, the
>introduction.
>
> = Additional checks and information for HEXEN levels.
>
>Tid and PolyId stats as well as node statistics. Press F1 in the node
>viewer to view the statistics.
Hmm.
>
> = New Help Index to find subject areas easier. Quickly browse areas
>of interest. Very useful when starting out and helpful for quick DeeP
>learning by experienced users.
>
> = Changed grid minimum default to 2 (since many didn't know you can
>set the range using F6 to anything you want).
Eh?
>
> Weird problems fixed:)
>
> = Map level was inadvertantly closed and not reset when drawing on
>textures.
>
> = Error check for missing Tid and PolyId was always reporting -0-,
>although the LineDef number was correct.
Hmm.
>
> = Error check sometimes erroneously reported missing normal textures
>after playing the game (whew, finally found it).
>
> = The top menu scrolled sometimes making it "unreachable" (same whew
>here).
>
> ..Watch this space for more advanced DOOM+HEXEN+HERETIC editor
>features!..
>
>Please review README.1ST and DeeP's homepage for prior features.
No, thanks. I'll pass.
>
>Mike Vermeulen
>
>
>--
>Visit the Official DeeP home page: http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/
>Download DeeP from these FTP sites:
>ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/newstuff/deep835s.zip
>ftp://ftp.wolfenet.com/pub/sbs/deep835s.zip <-- FAST!!
>Questions relating to DeeP? E-mail: s...@wolfenet.com
Interesting, but I'll stick to DCK for now (provided DCK 3.0 is here
soon! A new DeeP version comes ~once a month, a new DCK version
is ~once a year).
--
Dave Faulkner
"With a name like Dave, it has to be good."
Binh Vu
DeeP 8.35 released!
Edits DOOM, DOOMII, Ultimate DOOM,
HERETIC or HEXEN in ONE program.
Hi all,
DeeP 8.35 is out and can be downloaded from the following sites:
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/newstuff/deep835s.zip
ftp://ftp.wolfenet.com/pub/sbs/deep835s.zip
--
Too bad. It doesn't compatible with Win32.
--
The truth is out there.
The X-Files
George R Faulkner
Kirsty Damerell) writes:
>
>[I don't believe it. I'm supporting Vermeulen. This can't happen. I'll
>have to be rude about him up here, or something - Jack, you're a jerk,
but
>not _nearly_ as much of a jerk as George R Faulkner, who calls himself
>Dave - probably a kid using his father's account or summat.]
What the hell is your problem? Just because you were dropped a few
too many times as a kid, doesn't mean you have to take it out on
everyone else.
>
>George R Faulkner <faul...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>s...@wolfenet.com (Jack Vermeulen) writes:
>>> DeeP 8.35 released!
>>Wasn't DeeP 8.15 just released?
>
>I'd hardly flame someone for making a lot of progress.
It wasn't a flame. You must be very paranoid if you take everything
as a flame. I'm just saying that v8.15 was just released. It wasn't
intended to be an insult or a compliment, just a statement.
>
>>> Edits DOOM, DOOMII, Ultimate DOOM,
>>> HERETIC or HEXEN in ONE program.
>>Doom, Doom II, Ultimate Doom, Heretic, OR Hexen? Do you randomly
>>decide which it will edit? Perhaps you mean Doom, Doom II,
>>Ultimate Doom, Heretic, AND Hexen.
>
>That's exactly the sort of silly terminology quibble that Vermeulen
>claims everything is. You might as well say it should be 'or', because
at
>any given time you only edit one of them.
It was a joke. Can you say joke? J-O-K-E, that spells joke. Now,
maybe you'd be better off with a better understanding of what people
mean when they say things. Not everything everybody says is intended
as an insult, flame, or whatever. Maybe everything you say is....
>
>>>DeeP 8.35 is out and can be downloaded from the following sites:
>>>ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/newstuff/deep835s.zip
>>Obviously.
>
>Not everyone is noted for their FAQ-reading ability, and I for one
would
>take the absence of such a line to imply that it _wasn't_ sent to
>ftp.cdrom.com.
Not to bright, eh?
>
>>>Below is a complete list of what's new for DeeP 8.35. In case
you're
>>What's new for 8.35? How about a new editing style. I hate that
>>vertexes-up, low-level style editing.
>
>Don't be an idiot: there's the sector-mode camp, and the vertex-mode
>camp, and Deep's always been in the latter: if you don't like
>vertex-mode, that's hardly reason to criticise new vertex-mode
editors. I
>don't post every time a new DCK version comes out saying 'strip out
all
>that line-drawing stuff, I never use it.', do I?
I'm just saying I don't like that editing style. I'm not saying
"change DeeP to make it so I like it" or "everybody must like
sectors-mode editing style", I'm just stating that I dislike
vertexes-up, and therefore won't use DeeP if it doesn't support
vertexes-up.
>
>>>There is a HTML enhanced version of this text available now at:
>>>http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/whatsnew.html
>>No thanks, I don't feel like waiting 5 minutes to view the same
>>text except with a few useless GIF's.
>
>Turn off image loading, then.
Crappy Netcruiser won't support that.
>
>>>The Official DeeP Home Page is at:
>>>http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/
>>As if you didn't say that already.
>
>... which he didn't, this post.
He just said before
>>>There is a HTML enhanced version of this text available now at:
>>>http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/whatsnew.html
and I take that to imply that the DeeP Home Page is
at the same site.
>
>>> Update summary for DPMI DeeP v8.35
>>Is there a non-DPMI version? If not, than why bother saying DPMI?
>
>To tell people that it _is_ DPMI, idiot.
What the hell is your problem? I'm almost surprised you're
not an aoler, as you talk and act like one. How many friends
do you have? 1? 0? < 0? You can't have too many, if you
insist on insulting anyone who does not have the exact
same opinion as you. And by saying "DPMI DeeP v8.35", it
sounds like there is a seperate DPMI and non-DPMI version.
He could just say DPMI somewhere else in the article, such
as saying "DeeP v8.35, a DOS DPMI editor" or something like
that.
>
>>> The Second Official 1996 DeeP HEXEN release.
>>I'll stick to HCK for now, thank you very much.
>
>Shut up, then. If you don't use Deep, or anything like it, you've no
>place criticising it. I use DETH, which is essentially a different
>approach to the same thing as Deep - so I actually have some idea of
what
>the users of a vertex-based editor want. You don't have a fucking
clue.
You have PMS now or something? I'm just saying I prefer HCK
for now. I'm not saying "DeeP sucks like shit", which is
essentially what you seem to misinterpret everything I say as.
Maybe you should get some psychological help. You seem to
be acting like you're under a lot of stress, and taking it
out on poor, innocent newgroup posters.
>
>>>DeeP has Power, Speed and Ease of use. A long list of features you
>>I'm not sure about that "Ease of use" part.
>
>FFS, that's because your idea of an editing paradigm is totally
>different. It is not necessary - or desirable - for you to followup to
>every vertex-mode post saying how bad vertex-mode is.
What I said about DeeP being uneasy to use does not have to
do with it being vertexes-up, it has to do with it not
having a very good interface. And, I don't see how you
_could_ say vertexes-up is easier than sectors-down,
for instance, to make a rectangular sector in DCK requires
one step, in DeeP, quite a few more steps are involved,
with no benefit to taking those extra steps.
>
>>> The following is a list of new features for those with prior
versions
>>> to see if the changes warrant an upgrade.
>>Or to see if the changes warrant downloading it at all.
>
>No shit, Sherlock. I don't really think we needed you pointing that
out.
Wow, you're pretty kEwL, I wish I was as KeWl as you, then I
could talk as kEWl as you.
>
>>>Draw on any FLAT with more Awesome Direct Drawing (ADD)! Combine
this
>>>with the earlier Texture & Sprite drawing to make your level stand
>>>out.
>>I'll use WinTex for my graphics editing, thank you very much.
>>> - You can draw dot-to-dot, snap lines, or free hand.
>>> - Copy and paste pieces of one Flat to another (registered).
>>> - Graphics pasting can rescale images.
>>I think I'll draw my graphics in CorelPhotoPaint and PaintBrush
>>instead, and convert them with WinTex. Just a liddle bit easier,
>>and better quality drawing, too.
>
>Pixel editing is pixel editing - on a 64x64 flat, you don't _need_
Corel's
>capabilities, really, and I suspect that Vermeulen can produce
something
>with Paintbrush's capabilities that's smaller and stabler, because
>Paintbrush is a bloated hack with the functionality of a herring, and
I
>think there's a lot to be said for a paint program with a good
>understanding of the specifics of doom graphics, which hides a lot of
the
>intermediate hassle one has with an exterior paint program, and which
>will enable a quick graphics hack while editing the level. Quite
frankly,
>if DETH gets something like this I'll be delighted.
I'm just saying the graphics quality of Corel and even PBrush are
better than the quality of DeeP. Sure, for a quick hack if you're
already using DeeP, the drawing can be useful, but for making
any decent, high-quality graphics I wouldn't be using DeeP.
For instance, try converting a BMP/PCX/GIF file on your HD to
Doom using DeeP.
>
>I'd quibble with the use of the word 'Awesome', though. It's quite
>unnecessary: the feature can speak for itself.
>
>>>Edit the look of any floor and ceiling and have it instantly show up
>>>in your level with no complicated steps to follow. Either group the
>>>modified FLATs with your level or add as -FILE ... and it works!
>>> No other graphics program required.
>>No other graphics program can be used with it, either.
>
>Don't see why not. I presume Deep produces output that can be read by
>Deu/ Wintex...
Than use WinTex to create the graphics in the first place.
>
>>>Don't like a weapon, change it! Works the same as Texture drawing.
>>DeHackEd is required for seriously changing a weapon.
>
>... but not for new graphics. OTOH, given that it's already been said
>that we can change sprites, I'm not sure why this was put in.
I consider changing ammo amount, rate of fire, damage, etc. to be
part of a weapon, not just the graphics that compose of the weapon.
Besides, DeeP can't edit the sounds.
>
>>>Press Shift+Ctrl+G and set any grid size you like.
>>I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Never mind, I do see what you mean by that.
>
>It's the keystroke to use the feature - this sort of thing is quite
>common in documentation...
>
>[Vermeulen - what determines the initial X and Y offset of a custom
grid?
>Powers of 2 obviously fit nicely into the 64x64 Doom grid, but if the
>grid size is, say, 25, I should be able to say where it starts.]
Gee, maybe the starting offset is (0,0)...Gee, I didn't
know that....I'm too stupid taking out my drug problems on
people, I forgot to think....
>
>>> = Changed grid minimum default to 2 (since many didn't know you can
>>>set the range using F6 to anything you want).
>>Eh?
>
>Many people did not know you could change the range. Therefore, the
>default has been set to the most useful value. Understand?
Not really, why have a range for grid settings? Why not just
have the user press a hot-key, a box appears, user types in
grid size, grid size is set.
>
>>Interesting, but I'll stick to DCK for now (provided DCK 3.0 is here
>>soon! A new DeeP version comes ~once a month, a new DCK version
>>is ~once a year).
>
>This is an advantage?
I never said it was. That was more of a complaint about DCK
than it was about DeeP.
>
>--
>David 'Gotterdammerung' Damerell, GCV Sauricon.
djs...@hermes.cam.ac.uk.
>Trinity College, Cambridge University. CUWoCS President. All Hail
Discordia!
>|___| WOODHAL2.WAD ftpable from ftp.cdrom.com and the current mirrors.
Probably sucks.
|___|
>| | | I'm currently working on an as yet nameless WAD for Aliens-TC.
Don't expect me to download it, because I won't, even if it is
for Aliens-TC.
| | |
You're even _worse_ than Vermeulen. Damerell, I gotta' hand it
to you, you're one of THE biggest assholes I have ever known.
You redefine the meaning of loser. I'd pay big money to know
if there's anyone who is more of a complete fucking loser
that you. You _really_ need to see a psychologist, because
you _really_ have problems, or it may just be that you're
just starting those magical years of puberty and have
suddenly decided you have to act all KeWl. Or maybe
you were beaten by your parents as a child, or you
just lost your job, or just got divorced (can't see
why....loser), or whatever, just don't take out your
problems on me or anyone else. You are such as loser,
it's unbelievable. And your article was obviously
not written without any intelligence, patience, humor,
or anything else but stupidity, anger, and foolishness.
It's scum like you who make me sick, if I walked by you
on the street, I'd spit on you you're such an asshole.
Adam Williamson
writes
>> = Any Architectural grid size now possible, not just a power of 2!
>> For example, a grid size of 25 is valid.
>
>can't stand being able to snap only to the standard 64x64 grid. Makes
>doors, windows, and indented switches a pain in the *ss.
You can, just reduce grid size (- key). At least I think you can, I just
tend not to use snap to grid, as it's just as easy without.
--
Adam Williamson, D1M - ad...@scss.demon.co.uk
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/The_Williamsons/
Doom2: The Tyranny Levels, Insertion, Memento Mori 2
Doug Bora
: >Dave - probably a kid using his father's account or summat.]
: What the hell is your problem? Just because you were dropped a few
: too many times as a kid, doesn't mean you have to take it out on
: everyone else.
Interesting that you'd ask what the hell his problem is. I read your
post the exact same way, and applaud his reply to you. Your the one with
a problem. You attacked the Deep editor posting for absolutely no
reason that I could see.
Doug Bora
stig...@wwa.com
!David / Kirsty Damerell
have to be rude about him up here, or something - Jack, you're a jerk, but
Dave - probably a kid using his father's account or summat.]
George R Faulkner <faul...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>s...@wolfenet.com (Jack Vermeulen) writes:
>> DeeP 8.35 released!
>Wasn't DeeP 8.15 just released?
I'd hardly flame someone for making a lot of progress.
>> Edits DOOM, DOOMII, Ultimate DOOM,
>> HERETIC or HEXEN in ONE program.
>Doom, Doom II, Ultimate Doom, Heretic, OR Hexen? Do you randomly
>decide which it will edit? Perhaps you mean Doom, Doom II,
>Ultimate Doom, Heretic, AND Hexen.
That's exactly the sort of silly terminology quibble that Vermeulen
claims everything is. You might as well say it should be 'or', because at
any given time you only edit one of them.
>>DeeP 8.35 is out and can be downloaded from the following sites:
>>ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/newstuff/deep835s.zip
>Obviously.
Not everyone is noted for their FAQ-reading ability, and I for one would
take the absence of such a line to imply that it _wasn't_ sent to
ftp.cdrom.com.
>>Below is a complete list of what's new for DeeP 8.35. In case you're
>What's new for 8.35? How about a new editing style. I hate that
>vertexes-up, low-level style editing.
Don't be an idiot: there's the sector-mode camp, and the vertex-mode
camp, and Deep's always been in the latter: if you don't like
vertex-mode, that's hardly reason to criticise new vertex-mode editors. I
don't post every time a new DCK version comes out saying 'strip out all
that line-drawing stuff, I never use it.', do I?
>>There is a HTML enhanced version of this text available now at:
>>http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/whatsnew.html
>No thanks, I don't feel like waiting 5 minutes to view the same
>text except with a few useless GIF's.
Turn off image loading, then.
>>The Official DeeP Home Page is at:
>>http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/
>As if you didn't say that already.
... which he didn't, this post.
>> Update summary for DPMI DeeP v8.35
>Is there a non-DPMI version? If not, than why bother saying DPMI?
To tell people that it _is_ DPMI, idiot.
>> The Second Official 1996 DeeP HEXEN release.
>I'll stick to HCK for now, thank you very much.
Shut up, then. If you don't use Deep, or anything like it, you've no
place criticising it. I use DETH, which is essentially a different
approach to the same thing as Deep - so I actually have some idea of what
the users of a vertex-based editor want. You don't have a fucking clue.
>>DeeP has Power, Speed and Ease of use. A long list of features you
>I'm not sure about that "Ease of use" part.
FFS, that's because your idea of an editing paradigm is totally
different. It is not necessary - or desirable - for you to followup to
every vertex-mode post saying how bad vertex-mode is.
>> The following is a list of new features for those with prior versions
>> to see if the changes warrant an upgrade.
>Or to see if the changes warrant downloading it at all.
No shit, Sherlock. I don't really think we needed you pointing that out.
>>Draw on any FLAT with more Awesome Direct Drawing (ADD)! Combine this
>>with the earlier Texture & Sprite drawing to make your level stand
>>out.
>I'll use WinTex for my graphics editing, thank you very much.
>> - You can draw dot-to-dot, snap lines, or free hand.
>> - Copy and paste pieces of one Flat to another (registered).
>> - Graphics pasting can rescale images.
>I think I'll draw my graphics in CorelPhotoPaint and PaintBrush
>instead, and convert them with WinTex. Just a liddle bit easier,
>and better quality drawing, too.
Pixel editing is pixel editing - on a 64x64 flat, you don't _need_ Corel's
capabilities, really, and I suspect that Vermeulen can produce something
with Paintbrush's capabilities that's smaller and stabler, because
Paintbrush is a bloated hack with the functionality of a herring, and I
think there's a lot to be said for a paint program with a good
understanding of the specifics of doom graphics, which hides a lot of the
intermediate hassle one has with an exterior paint program, and which
will enable a quick graphics hack while editing the level. Quite frankly,
if DETH gets something like this I'll be delighted.
I'd quibble with the use of the word 'Awesome', though. It's quite
unnecessary: the feature can speak for itself.
>>Edit the look of any floor and ceiling and have it instantly show up
>>in your level with no complicated steps to follow. Either group the
>>modified FLATs with your level or add as -FILE ... and it works!
>> No other graphics program required.
>No other graphics program can be used with it, either.
Don't see why not. I presume Deep produces output that can be read by
Deu/ Wintex...
>>Don't like a weapon, change it! Works the same as Texture drawing.
>DeHackEd is required for seriously changing a weapon.
... but not for new graphics. OTOH, given that it's already been said
that we can change sprites, I'm not sure why this was put in.
>>Press Shift+Ctrl+G and set any grid size you like.
>I'm not sure what you mean by that.
It's the keystroke to use the feature - this sort of thing is quite
common in documentation...
[Vermeulen - what determines the initial X and Y offset of a custom grid?
Powers of 2 obviously fit nicely into the 64x64 Doom grid, but if the
grid size is, say, 25, I should be able to say where it starts.]
>> = Changed grid minimum default to 2 (since many didn't know you can
>>set the range using F6 to anything you want).
>Eh?
Many people did not know you could change the range. Therefore, the
default has been set to the most useful value. Understand?
>Interesting, but I'll stick to DCK for now (provided DCK 3.0 is here
>soon! A new DeeP version comes ~once a month, a new DCK version
>is ~once a year).
This is an advantage?
--
David 'Gotterdammerung' Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djs...@hermes.cam.ac.uk.
Trinity College, Cambridge University. CUWoCS President. All Hail Discordia!
|___| WOODHAL2.WAD ftpable from ftp.cdrom.com and the current mirrors. |___|
Stephen Heaslip
>Jack Vermeulen (s...@wolfenet.com) wrote:
>: DeeP 8.35 released!
>:
>: Edits DOOM, DOOMII, Ultimate DOOM,
>: HERETIC or HEXEN in ONE program.
>BTW, the FILE_ID.DIZ in this one was exactly correct.
And his .sig was much smaller! 8D
--
blue
ZlatkO ThE GoDFatheR
[ ... lots of things that might upset "someone" ;-) ... ]
> > = Any Architectural grid size now possible, not just a power of 2!
> > For example, a grid size of 25 is valid.
> Hey, Ben Morris. You might want to do something like this in DCK. I
> can't stand being able to snap only to the standard 64x64 grid. Makes
> doors, windows, and indented switches a pain in the *ss.
Erm ... did you ever read the docs? The grid size can be changed with
the '[' and ']' keys! Only powers of 2, though.
[ ... ]
> --
> Dave Faulkner
> "With a name like Dave, it has to be good."
Bye,
Thomas (already looking forward to the next DeeP flame war -
well, sort of)
=---------------------------------=---------------------------------=
- ZlatkO ThE GoDFatheR - "trust and you'll be trusted" -
- aka Thomas Zajic - said the liar to the fool -
- Vienna/Austria - type 'o' negative -
= ------------------------------- = ------------------------------- =
- <thomas...@non-hp-austria-om1.om.hp.com> -
=-------------------------------------------------------------------=
Drake O'Brien
Actually when Damerell isn't flaming me he has the occasional lucid
moment...
Anyhow, both of you should actually fire up DeeP and check out its functions
before arguing about them. DeeP has a LINEDRAW tool, RECTANGLE draw tool,
POLYGON draw tool, and STAIR tool, accessed by ^D, ^R, ^P, ^A, respectively.
Thus it appears that DeeP has the best of both 'top-down' and 'bottom-up'
functionality.
Doug Bora
: >: Edits DOOM, DOOMII, Ultimate DOOM,
: >: HERETIC or HEXEN in ONE program.
: >
: >BTW, the FILE_ID.DIZ in this one was exactly correct.
: Glad to hear it. I'll make sure to keep that file is the correct size
: before each upload. Please let me know if the size is incorrect.
: Thanks for letting me know it's okay.
I figured since I busted yer chops over it before, the least I could do
was let you know that it now fit within the specs quite well. :-)
--
Doug Bora
stig...@wwa.com
Adam Windsor
>
> In <4g20cu$q...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> djs...@thor.cam.ac.uk (!David /
> Kirsty Damerell) writes:
>
> >George R Faulkner <faul...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >>s...@wolfenet.com (Jack Vermeulen) writes:
> >>> DeeP 8.35 released!
> >>Wasn't DeeP 8.15 just released?
> >
> >I'd hardly flame someone for making a lot of progress.
>
> It wasn't a flame. You must be very paranoid if you take everything
> as a flame. I'm just saying that v8.15 was just released. It wasn't
> intended to be an insult or a compliment, just a statement.
Newsflash: whether a post is a "flame" or not is in the eye of the
beholder -- you may not mean it that way, but it people _see_ it that
way, then it becomes one. David (you're Dave, he's David) read it
that way, I guarantee Vermeulen read it that way -- hell, I read it as
being less-than-friendly, myself.
> >>>Below is a complete list of what's new for DeeP 8.35. In case
> >>What's new for 8.35? How about a new editing style. I hate that
> >>vertexes-up, low-level style editing.
> >
> >Don't be an idiot: there's the sector-mode camp, and the vertex-mode
> >camp, and Deep's always been in the latter
>
> I'm just saying I don't like that editing style. I'm not saying
> "change DeeP to make it so I like it" or "everybody must like
> sectors-mode editing style", I'm just stating that I dislike
> vertexes-up, and therefore won't use DeeP if it doesn't support
> vertexes-up.
"how about a new editing style" reads like "change DeeP" to me, and
probably just about everybody who read your post.
> >>No thanks, I don't feel like waiting 5 minutes to view the same
> >>text except with a few useless GIF's.
> >
> >Turn off image loading, then.
>
> Crappy Netcruiser won't support that.
Then get a real WWW-browser. Netcom users can use Netscape quite
readily, you know.
> >>> The Second Official 1996 DeeP HEXEN release.
> >>I'll stick to HCK for now, thank you very much.
Your choice. Personally, I don't like HCK or DCK. Either way, the
comment above was pointless baiting and it, and the replies to it
that I just clipped (yes, and this reply, too) are steadily adding to
the cost of many UK user's phone-bills.
> What I said about DeeP being uneasy to use does not have to
"uneasy"? :)
> >>I'll use WinTex for my graphics editing, thank you very much.
> >>I think I'll draw my graphics in CorelPhotoPaint and PaintBrush
> >>instead, and convert them with WinTex. Just a liddle bit easier,
> >>and better quality drawing, too.
More of the same pointless baiting. Newsflash 2: not everybody has
Wintex or Corel (or Paintbrush, for that matter -- or Windows :) )
Many people with crowded HDDs or limited finances will be very happy
to see a "does it all" single editor.
> >if DETH gets something like this I'll be delighted.
ditto. :)
> >I'd quibble with the use of the word 'Awesome', though. It's quite
> >unnecessary: the feature can speak for itself.
I suspect Vermeulen wanted a better acronym than "DD" :)
Besides, he doubtless does think it was "Awesome"
(flame or not? you decide)
> Gee, maybe the starting offset is (0,0)...Gee, I didn't
> know that....I'm too stupid taking out my drug problems on
> people, I forgot to think....
The question was "what _determines_ where it starts and can I change
it?" NOT "where does it start?"
> Not really, why have a range for grid settings? Why not just
> have the user press a hot-key, a box appears, user types in
> grid size, grid size is set.
Lessee, my range for grid settings is 2-128. To get to 64 (the one
I do most work on) I need to hit "G" twice. To get to it by your
method is 4 keystrokes. To change from 64 to 128, 32 or 16 (which
covers about 98% of my editing needs) is 2, 1 or 2 key presses - your
method? 5, 4 or 4.
> >|___| WOODHAL2.WAD ftpable from ftp.cdrom.com and the current mirrors.
>
> Probably sucks.
Actually, no. Got a .WAD of your own I can compare it too?
> >| | | I'm currently working on an as yet nameless WAD for Aliens-TC.
>
> Don't expect me to download it, because I won't, even if it is
> for Aliens-TC.
Well, gee, _that's_ mature.
<<LARGE FLAME DELETED>>
> Dave Faulkner
>
> "With a name like Dave, it has to be good."
Apparently not. Pity, usually your posts are halfway worthwhile.
Adam Windsor
wind...@pigeon.qut.edu.au
Author of DFEAR*.WAD
George R Faulkner
>
>: >not _nearly_ as much of a jerk as George R Faulkner, who calls
himself
>: >Dave - probably a kid using his father's account or summat.]
>
>: What the hell is your problem? Just because you were dropped a few
>: too many times as a kid, doesn't mean you have to take it out on
>: everyone else.
>
>post the exact same way, and applaud his reply to you. Your the one
with
>a problem. You attacked the Deep editor posting for absolutely no
>reason that I could see.
>
>Doug Bora
>stig...@wwa.com
Why do some people insist on taking everything as an "attack", a
"flame", or an "insult"? The way somebody takes a message depends
on their nature, so anyone who takes everything as an insult
or attack must think of nothing but insults, violence, anger,
and hatred all day long. In my original post (the one
responding to Vermeulean (sp?), I did not say anything
like "Jack, you're a jerk" or "Jack, you're an asshole",
or "DeeP sucks" or anything like that. Then, even the
person _defending_ DeeP calls Vermeulean (sp?) a jerk.
Can't people take messages as what they mean, not as flames,
attacks, insults, or anything else with harmful intent?
NOT ALL CRITICISM IS MEANT AS AN INSULT. Children tend
to have a problem understanding this concept, so I suppose
it fits you, then (that _was_ intended as an insult).
Sorry, Jack, if you're reading this, I didn't mean to
insult you or DeeP, just offer my 2 cents. If you're
going to argue with anybody, maybe you should pick on
the loser you called you a jerk while defending you....
Can't we all just get along?
George R Faulkner
<wind...@pigeon.qut.edu.au> writes:
>
>faul...@ix.netcom.com(George R Faulkner ) wrote:
>>
>> In <4g20cu$q...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> djs...@thor.cam.ac.uk (!David /
>> Kirsty Damerell) writes:
>>
>> >George R Faulkner <faul...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >>s...@wolfenet.com (Jack Vermeulen) writes:
>> >>> DeeP 8.35 released!
>> >>Wasn't DeeP 8.15 just released?
>> >
>> >I'd hardly flame someone for making a lot of progress.
>>
>> It wasn't a flame. You must be very paranoid if you take everything
>> as a flame. I'm just saying that v8.15 was just released. It
wasn't
>> intended to be an insult or a compliment, just a statement.
>
>Newsflash: whether a post is a "flame" or not is in the eye of the
>beholder -- you may not mean it that way, but it people _see_ it that
>way, then it becomes one. David (you're Dave, he's David) read it
>that way, I guarantee Vermeulen read it that way -- hell, I read it as
>being less-than-friendly, myself.
Insulting people generally take things as being insults.
>
>> >>>Below is a complete list of what's new for DeeP 8.35. In case
>
>> >>What's new for 8.35? How about a new editing style. I hate that
>> >>vertexes-up, low-level style editing.
>> >
>> >Don't be an idiot: there's the sector-mode camp, and the
vertex-mode
>> >camp, and Deep's always been in the latter
>>
>> I'm just saying I don't like that editing style. I'm not saying
>> "change DeeP to make it so I like it" or "everybody must like
>> sectors-mode editing style", I'm just stating that I dislike
>> vertexes-up, and therefore won't use DeeP if it doesn't support
>> vertexes-up.
>
>"how about a new editing style" reads like "change DeeP" to me, and
>probably just about everybody who read your post.
It was more like "well, I'm not going to use it if it is vertexes
editing style", which simply states I do not like that kind of
editing style. It did not mean I'm saying Vermeulen must change
DeeP to my preferences, I'm just saying I'm not going to use
an editor of that style. I'll try to be more clear of my
intent in future posts.
>
>> >>No thanks, I don't feel like waiting 5 minutes to view the same
>> >>text except with a few useless GIF's.
>> >
>> >Turn off image loading, then.
>>
>> Crappy Netcruiser won't support that.
>
>Then get a real WWW-browser. Netcom users can use Netscape quite
>readily, you know.
32-bit Netscape won't work with Netcruiser, only with the Win95
dialer, and I haven't quite gotten around to setting that up
yet. And why bother read an html version of a text without the
graphics, when all it will give you then is some different
fonts and some links to sites I don't have to time to explore.
>
>> >>> The Second Official 1996 DeeP HEXEN release.
>> >>I'll stick to HCK for now, thank you very much.
>
>Your choice. Personally, I don't like HCK or DCK. Either way, the
>comment above was pointless baiting and it, and the replies to it
>that I just clipped (yes, and this reply, too) are steadily adding to
>the cost of many UK user's phone-bills.
Hmm, here in the US local calls are usually free, and my Netcom node
is local. So I'm not used to dealing with phone bills here in the US.
Can't your newreader just read articles which you select? Or get
a faster modem?
>
>> What I said about DeeP being uneasy to use does not have to
>
>"uneasy"? :)
I don't find it's interface to be the most convenient of all
interfaces. But then again, I think the DOS command prompt
is a better shell than the MacOS shell <g>, so my opinion
probably doesn't count to much about that subject.
>
>> >>I'll use WinTex for my graphics editing, thank you very much.
>> >>I think I'll draw my graphics in CorelPhotoPaint and PaintBrush
>> >>instead, and convert them with WinTex. Just a liddle bit easier,
>> >>and better quality drawing, too.
>
>More of the same pointless baiting. Newsflash 2: not everybody has
>Wintex or Corel (or Paintbrush, for that matter -- or Windows :) )
>Many people with crowded HDDs or limited finances will be very happy
>to see a "does it all" single editor.
WinTex is free. And if you have any OS or GUI, it most likely
comes with at least a somewhat usable drawing program. And
PBrush doesn't take much HD space, and I run Corel off the CD,
so it takes very little space on my HD at all.
>
>> >if DETH gets something like this I'll be delighted.
>
>ditto. :)
I can't say anything bad about DETH, as it totally screws
up with the old "Coproccessor not available" problem,
even when I try to use EMU387.
>
>> >I'd quibble with the use of the word 'Awesome', though. It's quite
>> >unnecessary: the feature can speak for itself.
>
>I suspect Vermeulen wanted a better acronym than "DD" :)
>Besides, he doubtless does think it was "Awesome"
>(flame or not? you decide)
Well, since I'm not as violent and insulting as _some_ people,
I wouldn't take that as a flame.
>
>> Gee, maybe the starting offset is (0,0)...Gee, I didn't
>> know that....I'm too stupid taking out my drug problems on
>> people, I forgot to think....
>
>The question was "what _determines_ where it starts and can I change
>it?" NOT "where does it start?"
Well, most likely it starts at the center of the map, as that's
just about the only logical place to start the grid at. But if
you think it's more convenient to start it at (47,982) or
somesuch, that's your problem.
>
>> Not really, why have a range for grid settings? Why not just
>> have the user press a hot-key, a box appears, user types in
>> grid size, grid size is set.
>
>Lessee, my range for grid settings is 2-128. To get to 64 (the one
>I do most work on) I need to hit "G" twice. To get to it by your
>method is 4 keystrokes. To change from 64 to 128, 32 or 16 (which
>covers about 98% of my editing needs) is 2, 1 or 2 key presses - your
>method? 5, 4 or 4.
Oh, I see (that's not a flame, by the way, I'm just saying I
realize what you mean).
>
>> >|___| WOODHAL2.WAD ftpable from ftp.cdrom.com and the current
mirrors.
>>
>> Probably sucks.
>
>Actually, no. Got a .WAD of your own I can compare it too?
I was a liddle angry while writing my response to the
Mad Flamer, so that comment is unlikely to be totally
accurrate. And if you want a WAD to compare it to,
wait for MM2.
>
>> >| | | I'm currently working on an as yet nameless WAD for
Aliens-TC.
>>
>> Don't expect me to download it, because I won't, even if it is
>> for Aliens-TC.
>
>Well, gee, _that's_ mature.
Yeah, and Damerell's comments like "no shit, Sherlock" are _much_
more mature.
>
><<LARGE FLAME DELETED>>
>
>> Dave Faulkner
>>
>> "With a name like Dave, it has to be good."
>
>Apparently not. Pity, usually your posts are halfway worthwhile.
My flame response wasn't intended to be worthwhile, it was
intended to defend myself and insult to asshole you insulted
me. I have little interest in flames (except those directed
to me) myself.
>
>Adam Windsor
>wind...@pigeon.qut.edu.au
>Author of DFEAR*.WAD
--
Jack Vermeulen
>Jack Vermeulen (s...@wolfenet.com) wrote:
>: DeeP 8.35 released!
>:
>: Edits DOOM, DOOMII, Ultimate DOOM,
>: HERETIC or HEXEN in ONE program.
>
>BTW, the FILE_ID.DIZ in this one was exactly correct.
Glad to hear it. I'll make sure to keep that file is the correct size
before each upload. Please let me know if the size is incorrect.
Thanks for letting me know it's okay.
Mike Vermeulen
Adam Williamson
writes
>NOT ALL CRITICISM IS MEANT AS AN INSULT. Children tend
>to have a problem understanding this concept, so I suppose
Will you stop degrading children please? I only happen to be 13.
Adam Williamson
writes
>Hmm, here in the US local calls are usually free, and my Netcom node
>is local. So I'm not used to dealing with phone bills here in the US.
>Can't your newreader just read articles which you select? Or get
>a faster modem?
Like I HAVE got time to go through every header of every group (7) I
read EVERY day picking out articles through what is basically guesswork,
'cos in a lot of groups (check alt.tv.red-dwarf) the best threads can
often come under headers like "kewl binary 0/0".
George R Faulkner
<Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>In article <4g3b4m$b...@reader2.ix.netcom.com>, faul...@ix.netcom.com
>writes
>>NOT ALL CRITICISM IS MEANT AS AN INSULT. Children tend
>>to have a problem understanding this concept, so I suppose
>
>Will you stop degrading children please? I only happen to be 13.
>Adam Williamson, D1M - ad...@scss.demon.co.uk
>http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/The_Williamsons/
>Doom2: The Tyranny Levels, Insertion, Memento Mori 2
You're 13? I never would've known, you act much more mature
than some of the people here who claim to be adults. By
children, I mean childish in nature, not childish in age.
!David / Kirsty Damerell
>>[I don't believe it. I'm supporting Vermeulen. This can't happen. I'll
>>have to be rude about him up here, or something - Jack, you're a jerk,
>>but not _nearly_ as much of a jerk as George R Faulkner, who calls himself
>>Dave - probably a kid using his father's account or summat.]
[It's still wierd.]
>What the hell is your problem? Just because you were dropped a few
>too many times as a kid, doesn't mean you have to take it out on
>everyone else.
Are you or are you not George Faulkner, the person in whose name this
account is registered? No: you are Dave Faulkner, someone else, who I
presume is related to George. I suspect you are his son. Am I correct?
>>George R Faulkner <faul...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>s...@wolfenet.com (Jack Vermeulen) writes:
>>>> DeeP 8.35 released!
>>>Wasn't DeeP 8.15 just released?
>>I'd hardly flame someone for making a lot of progress.
>It wasn't a flame.
As we say in Britain: bollocks.
>>>> Edits DOOM, DOOMII, Ultimate DOOM,
>>>> HERETIC or HEXEN in ONE program.
>>>Doom, Doom II, Ultimate Doom, Heretic, OR Hexen? Do you randomly
>>>decide which it will edit? Perhaps you mean Doom, Doom II,
>>>Ultimate Doom, Heretic, AND Hexen.
>>That's exactly the sort of silly terminology quibble that Vermeulen
>>claims everything is. You might as well say it should be 'or', because at
>>any given time you only edit one of them.
>It was a joke. Can you say joke? J-O-K-E, that spells joke.
Jokes are funny: that was not a joke.
>>>>DeeP 8.35 is out and can be downloaded from the following sites:
>>>>ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/newstuff/deep835s.zip
>>>Obviously.
>>Not everyone is noted for their FAQ-reading ability, and I for one would
>>take the absence of such a line to imply that it _wasn't_ sent to
>>ftp.cdrom.com.
>Not to bright, eh?
I know the difference between 'to' and 'too', if that's what you mean.
However, let me explain:
Most Doom-related releases go to cdrom.com. Some of them do not. Hence,
if a release announcement doesn't say that the release did go to
cdrom.com, I don't know whether it did or not. Understand?
>>>>Below is a complete list of what's new for DeeP 8.35. In case
>>>What's new for 8.35? How about a new editing style. I hate that
>>>vertexes-up, low-level style editing.
>>Don't be an idiot: there's the sector-mode camp, and the vertex-mode
>>camp, and Deep's always been in the latter: if you don't like
>>vertex-mode, that's hardly reason to criticise new vertex-mode editors. I
>>don't post every time a new DCK version comes out saying 'strip out all
>>that line-drawing stuff, I never use it.', do I?
>I'm just saying I don't like that editing style. I'm not saying
You've said that hundreds of times already. We know. Kindly do me the
service of not telling us again.
>>>No thanks, I don't feel like waiting 5 minutes to view the same
>>>text except with a few useless GIF's.
>>Turn off image loading, then.
>Crappy Netcruiser won't support that.
Vermeulen's hardly responsible for your software being broken, old chap.
>>>>The Official DeeP Home Page is at:
>>>>http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/
>>>As if you didn't say that already.
>>... which he didn't, this post.
>He just said before
>>>>There is a HTML enhanced version of this text available now at:
>>>>http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/whatsnew.html
>and I take that to imply that the DeeP Home Page is
>at the same site.
A reasonable, but by no means certain, deduction. I hardly see why Jack
should be penalised for letting us know things explicitly.
>>>> Update summary for DPMI DeeP v8.35
>>>Is there a non-DPMI version? If not, than why bother saying DPMI?
>>To tell people that it _is_ DPMI, idiot.
>What the hell is your problem? I'm almost surprised you're
>not an aoler, as you talk and act like one.
You _are_ aware that ix.netcom.com is Netcom's answer to AOL, aren't you?
>How many friends do you have? 1? 0? < 0? You can't have too many, if
>you insist on insulting anyone who does not have the exact same opinion
>as you.
I don't get on too well with people who talk nonsense all the time - this
could explain the problem I have with you...
>I'm just saying the graphics quality of Corel and even PBrush are
>better than the quality of DeeP.
You've not even tried this version of Deep yet...
>Sure, for a quick hack if you're
>already using DeeP, the drawing can be useful, but for making
>any decent, high-quality graphics I wouldn't be using DeeP.
>For instance, try converting a BMP/PCX/GIF file on your HD to
>Doom using DeeP.
That's not what Vermeulen said this feature was for, is it? (Mind you,
for all I know, Deep 8.35 _can_ do that.)
>>>> No other graphics program required.
>>>No other graphics program can be used with it, either.
>>Don't see why not. I presume Deep produces output that can be read by
>>Deu/ Wintex...
>Than use WinTex to create the graphics in the first place.
Don't try and divert the discussion. You made an untrue assertion about a
piece of software you hadn't used, and I pointed this out...
>>[Vermeulen - what determines the initial X and Y offset of a custom grid?
>>Powers of 2 obviously fit nicely into the 64x64 Doom grid, but if the
>>grid size is, say, 25, I should be able to say where it starts.]
>Gee, maybe the starting offset is (0,0)...Gee, I didn't
Idiot. If you had read my post, you would see that I want to control the
offset.
>>Many people did not know you could change the range. Therefore, the
>>default has been set to the most useful value. Understand?
>Not really, why have a range for grid settings? Why not just
>have the user press a hot-key, a box appears, user types in
>grid size, grid size is set.
That's slower than G - Shift-G.
>>>Interesting, but I'll stick to DCK for now (provided DCK 3.0 is here
>>>soon! A new DeeP version comes ~once a month, a new DCK version
>>>is ~once a year).
>>
>>This is an advantage?
>
>I never said it was. That was more of a complaint about DCK
>than it was about DeeP.
[rant forwarded to postmaster.]
--
David 'Gotterdammerung' Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djs...@hermes.cam.ac.uk.
Trinity College, Cambridge University. CUWoCS President. All Hail Discordia!
|___| You bought a mask: I put it on: you never thought to ask me if I wear
| | | it when you're gone. The Sisters of Mercy: When You Don't See Me.
!David / Kirsty Damerell
>faul...@ix.netcom.com says...
>Actually when Damerell isn't flaming me he has the occasional lucid
>moment...
Thanks, I think...
>Anyhow, both of you should actually fire up DeeP and check out its functions
>before arguing about them. DeeP has a LINEDRAW tool, RECTANGLE draw tool,
>POLYGON draw tool, and STAIR tool, accessed by ^D, ^R, ^P, ^A, respectively.
> Thus it appears that DeeP has the best of both 'top-down' and 'bottom-up'
>functionality.
I stand corrected.
--
David 'Gotterdammerung' Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djs...@hermes.cam.ac.uk.
Trinity College, Cambridge University. CUWoCS President. All Hail Discordia!
|___| So you think you can stone me and spit in my eye? So you think |___|
| | | you can love me and leave me to die? Queen: Bohemian Rhapsody. | | |
!David / Kirsty Damerell
>Bye,
>Thomas (already looking forward to the next DeeP flame war -
> well, sort of)
It won't be the same with me and Jack on the same side...
George R Faulkner
Kirsty Damerell) writes:
[ranting and raving all snipped]
How about a truce? I don't have time for a flame war right now, I'm
kinda busy....
Razorback
{lots of editor war stuff deleted}
{lots of personal attack stuff deleted}
Why the heck are you going off on this guy? You say how childish he is, and
you're the one cutting him down. Please take this crap to private e-mail,
and bitch at each other that way, because no one wants to hear it: it has
absolutly nothing to do with _doom_editing_. I also seriouly doubt that
anyone gives a crap about what you think of him, either. Now I'll shut up,
take my own advice, and stop wasting bandwidth.
Razorback
Paul Noble
Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk "Adam Williamson" writes:
> Will you stop degrading children please? I only happen to be 13.
> --
Hey Adam, i'm sure you've been 13 for about 2 years now =)
--
:============================================================:
Humourous twenty line sig deleted because of
Pedantic Net Nazi's Actions : Available on request
-- --
Paul Noble edi...@elbon.demon.co.uk
Djinni
) wrote:
>Why do some people insist on taking everything as an "attack", a
>"flame", or an "insult"? The way somebody takes a message depends
>on their nature, so anyone who takes everything as an insult
>or attack must think of nothing but insults, violence, anger,
>and hatred all day long.
I suspect you take everything as an asshole ;)
>Can't we all just get along?
>--
>Dave Faulkner
>
>"With a name like Dave, it has to be good."
Try: With a name like Dave, he has to be an asshole. Or maybe just
this one.
Regards,
Jens.
/* ----------------------------------------------
Co-author of Memento Mori for Doom II. The 32 map
replacement for the critical Doom players!
Other pwads done for Doom II:
Corridors of Hell, single-death (cor_hel4.zip)
Walkabout, single,cooperative (wlkabot2.zip)
Check out my homepage for Hexen editing stuff:
http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2298
---------------------------------------------- */
Drake O'Brien
>
>Drake O'Brien <a13...@mindlink.bc.ca> wrote:
>>faul...@ix.netcom.com says...
>>>djs...@thor.cam.ac.uk (!David /Kirsty Damerell) writes:
>>[MEGA SNIP!]
>>Actually when Damerell isn't flaming me he has the occasional lucid
>>moment...
>
>Thanks, I think...
>
negatives in the 'deth.ini' file would appreciate the line ;)
Adam Williamson
<edi...@elbon.demon.co.uk> writes
>Hey Adam, i'm sure you've been 13 for about 2 years now =)
No, 1 year - 4 days, i'm 14 on Thursday :)
Jack Vermeulen
hope the following clears up some interpretations that could be
misleading to some readers. I also wish to thank David Damerell
specifically for his comments (even though I am a jerk<g>).
>>faul...@ix.netcom.com(George R Faulkner ) wrote:
>> I hate that vertexes-up, low-level style editing.
I am not sure what each person calls "low" vs "high", but most who
have designed complicated levels tend to want easy quick access to the
essential parts of construction. This is not really "vertex" editing
though, just a method to permit direct control of the level structure.
Yes, DeeP does allow that "precision" control and you can shift
vertexes around, but that is a separate issue from "vertex up..."
DeeP draws LINES, not put vertexes down, press INS, etc.
The DeeP drawing tool objects such as the rectangle, polygon, doors,
.. are high level. I intended these to be used as quick learning
aids to get started, but did not design DeeP to rely on them for level
construction for intermediate to advanced designers as some editors
do.
This has nothing to do with each person's subjective taste, like
whatever you want.
>> It did not mean I'm saying Vermeulen must change
>DeeP to my preferences, I'm just saying I'm not going to use
>an editor of that style.
I try to accommodate users who state clear objective for a feature.
Many of the Autocad type zooming features were suggested by others.
Sometimes it turns out that a preconception someone has makes them
think something works one way, but there is another way to do the same
thing. Well written desires or complaints let me experience views
outside my own conceptions. I think most of the authors would express
the same view.
>>I'll use WinTex for my graphics editing, thank you very much.
>>I think I'll draw my graphics in CorelPhotoPaint and PaintBrush
The drawing mode in DeeP is not intended to replace Wintex (which does
not do graphics editing really..think about it). Instead, the key
word here is "instant". The amount of work required using WinTex+
another drawing program + the palette learning curve is very hard for
those who just want to put their name on the wall. That takes about 5
minutes from start to finish.
>>instead, and convert them with WinTex. Just a liddle bit easier,
>>and better quality drawing, too.
There is no need to convert. Isn't skipping about 3 steps simpler?
DeeP drawing feature is not intended to be a competitor to Corel,
PSP.... However, if you use the cut and paste feature, you'll see a
tool that can turn out really professional results in quite a short
period of time. You cut pieces from other textures and paste them
together very rapidly. So you can take the light from one and slap it
in a repeat pattern in about the time it took me to write this
paragraph. AND you are done. No import, no transparency probs, no
PWAD merge, etc.
These new textures are 100 percent compatible with all existing
editing tools. Just export the texture or extract using whatever you
like.
>> I wrote... New file Paste Option.<<
and Faulkner wrote
>> I think DCK and HCK already have this feature<<
This works differently from prior paste from level to level. You can
read a PWAD into the paste buffer at any time. This can be a complete
level or just some special structures (the latter should be the most
common use). The level file browser shows you what's in each file, so
don't have to remember too much what's in the files.
>>David Damerell had a question about the origin of the grid in a previous message.<<
All grids have the same origin (0,0), so offsets are calculated from
that point. The origin of all maps is implicitly 0,0 in all editors,
not where you start drawing. There is a minor design goal for large
maps, to center on 0,0 to prevent coordinate overflow problems at the
edges.
Jack Vermeulen
Jim Wraith, the resident Gypsy stalker.
*than some of the people here who claim to be adults. By
*children, I mean childish in nature, not childish in age.
Good! Just for the record, I'm 13 and all.. I've met Adam, and he's a mature
erm... Manchester Ushited fan (why not Altrincham ;) ).. Also the two childish
by age ones are working on Memento Mori 2 (Check Adam's sig, he's working on
other projects too!)..
--
** "Question deserving answers, |X| Is there heaven? Is there hell? **
** Answers deserving action, |X| Is that tuna melt I smell? Come on.. **
** What am I of the populi? |X| -Primus "Hellbound 17 1/2" **
** I am but a fraction.. |X|Jim Wraith'-_-'j...@kildare.demon.co.uk**
Adam Williamson
<s...@wolfenet.com> writes
>
>The DeeP drawing tool objects such as the rectangle, polygon, doors,
>.. are high level. I intended these to be used as quick learning
>aids to get started, but did not design DeeP to rely on them for level
>construction for intermediate to advanced designers as some editors
>do.
>
>This has nothing to do with each person's subjective taste, like
>whatever you want.
Thanks for putting that straight Jack. If you want vertex up/line up try
DeeP or DEU. For the other styles use DCK, EdMap or WadAuthor. Don't try
one style with the others - DCK and DeeP cross over in a limited way but
DCK is not very good lines up and DeeP not too good sectors down.
>The drawing mode in DeeP is not intended to replace Wintex (which does
>not do graphics editing really..think about it). Instead, the key
>word here is "instant". The amount of work required using WinTex+
>another drawing program + the palette learning curve is very hard for
>those who just want to put their name on the wall. That takes about 5
>minutes from start to finish.
Yes, it could be pretty useful just to call up a texture viewer and draw
on a texture. Must need some pretty nifty code, too :)
>>> I wrote... New file Paste Option.<<
>and Faulkner wrote
>>> I think DCK and HCK already have this feature<<
>
>This works differently from prior paste from level to level. You can
>read a PWAD into the paste buffer at any time. This can be a complete
>level or just some special structures (the latter should be the most
>common use). The level file browser shows you what's in each file, so
>don't have to remember too much what's in the files.
Plus, of course, just because DCK has it doesn't mean DeeP can't do it.
If DeeP _hadn't_ implemented it you would be saying, "shit, can't DeeP
even do a file paste option?"
Ted Mielczarek
says...
>You can, just reduce grid size (- key). At least I think you can, I just
>tend not to use snap to grid, as it's just as easy without.
Hmm, well, changing the grid size is possible in DCK ( the [ and ] keys)
but it doesn't have nonstandard grid sizes. Would be nice, although flats
would probably look pretty bad that way.
I use snap to grid at about 64 when i start a level, then end up finishing
it at snap to 2, zoomed in fully :)
Ted Mielczarek
George R Faulkner
INTENDED AS A FLAME, AN INSULT, OR AN ATTACK, IT IS MERELY A
RESPONSE IN DEFENSE OF MYSELF AND A COMPLAINT TO THE PEOPLE IN
GENERAL. IF YOU DO TAKE THIS PERSONALLY AS SOME KIND OF INSULT,
THEN YOU REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM.
In <312763b3...@news.uni-c.dk> per...@po.ia.dk (Djinni) writes:
>
>On 17 Feb 1996 01:31:02 GMT, faul...@ix.netcom.com(George R Faulkner
>) wrote:
>
>>Why do some people insist on taking everything as an "attack", a
>>"flame", or an "insult"? The way somebody takes a message depends
>>on their nature, so anyone who takes everything as an insult
>>or attack must think of nothing but insults, violence, anger,
>>and hatred all day long.
Does that look like a flame to you? If so, then you _really_ have
problems. If not, then why the hell are you flaming me for it?
In that message there was not a single word "asshole", "fuck",
"shit", "loser", or anything other insults, nor was it directed
at any particular person.
>I suspect you take everything as an asshole ;)
Uh, no. I'm not exactly clear what you mean by that. Maybe you
should try learning good writing skills so you can make your
messages understandable. And a ;) usually means that you're
joking, which is usually isn't used in a flame, which, judging
by the rest of your message, this was intended to be.
>
>>Can't we all just get along?
>>--
>>Dave Faulkner
>>
>>"With a name like Dave, it has to be good."
>Try: With a name like Dave, he has to be an asshole. Or maybe just
Now your joining the "lets all gang up on Dave because he made a
few comments that could by negative people be interpreted as
flames" bandwagon.
>this one.
What do you mean "Or maybe just this one." ?
>
>Regards,
>Jens.
>
>/* ----------------------------------------------
>Co-author of Memento Mori for Doom II. The 32 map
> replacement for the critical Doom players!
>
> Other pwads done for Doom II:
> Corridors of Hell, single-death (cor_hel4.zip)
> Walkabout, single,cooperative (wlkabot2.zip)
>
> Check out my homepage for Hexen editing stuff:
> http://www.geocities.com/hollywood/2298
>---------------------------------------------- */
11 sigs are too long.
This, folks, is just what I mean. I post a message with no flames,
and what do I get for it in return? Flames. Pretty soon I'll just
have to start forwarding these things to the postmaster and have
people's accounts disconnected. The worst thing of all is that
these flames are coming from people who I previously thought to
be nice, decent people, but my opinion has changed about them
due to some of the things they've recently said. For instance,
I always thought Jens was such a nice guy, but I suppose I
was wrong. I always thought David Damerell was a nice guy,
too, but I was wrong about him.
Now, can we just call this THE END of this incredibly stupid
thread. All it's accomplishing is making people complain of
slow newsreaders and expensive phone bills. I'm sorry I
originally posted that response to Jack, I didn't know it
would piss everyone off so much. I bet people won't call
this the end, though, since people just _love_ to argue,
and insult and flame people under some stupid excuse that
whoever they're insulting unwittingly provided, and people
find it much easier to tell their newsreader to quote and
respond to somebody's message and type in a few flames
that took two seconds to think up rather than actually
THINK of what the original message was intended to mean.
Maybe I'll have to start writing Cliff Notes for my messages
so that those too stupid (or too lazy) to tell the
difference between a flame an a general comment can
tell which my message was intended to be.
THIS IS THE END OF THIS THREAD. THE END. GOODBYE.
GO READ AND RESPOND TO ANOTHER THREAD. LOOK IN THE
DICTIONARY AND FIND THE DEFINITION OF INSULT. GO
MAKE DOOM LEVELS. GO DO SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES
MORE BRAINPOWER THAN BRAINLESS FLAMES.
!David / Kirsty Damerell
>In article <4g5c1i$4...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, djs...@thor.cam.ac.uk says...
>>Drake O'Brien <a13...@mindlink.bc.ca> wrote:
>>>faul...@ix.netcom.com says...
>>>>djs...@thor.cam.ac.uk (!David /Kirsty Damerell) writes:
>>>[MEGA SNIP!]
>>>Actually when Damerell isn't flaming me he has the occasional lucid
>>>moment...
>>Thanks, I think...
>Heh, I figured anyone who could breeze thru' all those triple and quadruple
>negatives in the 'deth.ini' file would appreciate the line ;)
#Failing to turn this option off results in not having the alternative
#info bar hidden.
Eh, whaddya mean? :-)
--
David 'Gotterdammerung' Damerell, GCV Sauricon. djs...@hermes.cam.ac.uk.
Trinity College, Cambridge University. CUWoCS President. All Hail Discordia!
|___| YOU MUST LEARN THE COMPASSION PROPER TO YOUR TRADE. |___|
| | | "What is that?" A SHARP EDGE. Terry Pratchett, Mort. | | |
!David / Kirsty Damerell
>>>David Damerell had a question about the origin of the grid in a
previous message.<<
>All grids have the same origin (0,0), so offsets are calculated from
>that point. The origin of all maps is implicitly 0,0 in all editors,
>not where you start drawing. There is a minor design goal for large
>maps, to center on 0,0 to prevent coordinate overflow problems at the
>edges.
Uuurrr. What about allowing any offset from (0,0) - especially useful
with grids which aren't a power of two?
(If I'm laying out some stuff in 50x50 squares, say, I can do this
_really_ quickly if I can shift the 50x50 grid to where I want it in the
existing room...)
Doug Bora
: NOTE TO THOSE TOO STUPID TO REALIZE THIS ALREADY: THIS MESSAGE IS NOT
: INTENDED AS A FLAME, AN INSULT, OR AN ATTACK, IT IS MERELY A
: RESPONSE IN DEFENSE OF MYSELF AND A COMPLAINT TO THE PEOPLE IN
: GENERAL. IF YOU DO TAKE THIS PERSONALLY AS SOME KIND OF INSULT,
: THEN YOU REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM.
Yeah, as you insult everyone in the first sentence. You'll never learn.
Doug Bora
stig...@wwa.com
Leath Muller
>In article <BqC+bBAU...@scss.demon.co.uk>, Ad...@scss.demon.co.uk
>says...
>>You can, just reduce grid size (- key). At least I think you can, I just
>>tend not to use snap to grid, as it's just as easy without.
>Hmm, well, changing the grid size is possible in DCK ( the [ and ] keys)
>but it doesn't have nonstandard grid sizes. Would be nice, although flats
>would probably look pretty bad that way.
>I use snap to grid at about 64 when i start a level, then end up finishing
>it at snap to 2, zoomed in fully :)
Just on DCK, I use 2.2...are there any newer versions of this??? Whenever
I try and swap between say a heretic map, and a doom map, I get all sort
of problems!!!! And Heretic only seems to have about 100 textures!!! This
cant be right can it???
Leathal.
Jack Vermeulen
Damerell) wrote:
>Jack Vermeulen <s...@wolfenet.com> wrote:
>>>>David Damerell had a question about the origin of the grid in a
>previous message.<<
>>All grids have the same origin (0,0), so offsets are calculated from
>>that point. The origin of all maps is implicitly 0,0 in all editors,
>>not where you start drawing. There is a minor design goal for large
>>maps, to center on 0,0 to prevent coordinate overflow problems at the
>>edges.
>Uuurrr. What about allowing any offset from (0,0) - especially useful
>with grids which aren't a power of two?
Changing the origin is directly tied to the map coordinates which are
harder to mess with (meaning test time) to be sure I don't break
anything. As it is, the new grid feature accidently forced a
snap-to-grid for stairs.
For now, I suggest to anyone who makes curved stairs to set the grid
to a small size (a size of 1 is the same as no grid) if it gets in the
way. Sorry about that.
>(If I'm laying out some stuff in 50x50 squares, say, I can do this
>_really_ quickly if I can shift the 50x50 grid to where I want it in the
>existing room...)
I'll keep this in mind for future versions. The "any grid" feature
was actually suggested about 4 months ago, so you see I try not to
forget what people want.
Jack Vermeulen
--
Visit the Official DeeP home page: http://www.wolfenet.com/~sbs/
Download DeeP from these FTP sites:
ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/idgames/utils/level_edit/deep835s.zip
ftp://ftp.wolfenet.com/pub/sbs/deep835s.zip <-- FAST!!
Questions relating to DeeP? E-mail: s...@wolfenet.com
Ted Mielczarek
>Just on DCK, I use 2.2...are there any newer versions of this??? Whenever
>I try and swap between say a heretic map, and a doom map, I get all sort
>of problems!!!! And Heretic only seems to have about 100 textures!!! This
>cant be right can it???
DCK 3.0 is out. Go get it. It rules. Except it's now BEGWARE. Well, I'l
hafta scrounge up the $25 to register...
Ted Mielczarek
>Leathal.
Djinni
) wrote:
>NOTE TO THOSE TOO STUPID TO REALIZE THIS ALREADY: THIS MESSAGE IS NOT
>INTENDED AS A FLAME, AN INSULT, OR AN ATTACK, IT IS MERELY A
>RESPONSE IN DEFENSE OF MYSELF AND A COMPLAINT TO THE PEOPLE IN
>GENERAL. IF YOU DO TAKE THIS PERSONALLY AS SOME KIND OF INSULT,
>THEN YOU REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM.
Right !
>In <312763b3...@news.uni-c.dk> per...@po.ia.dk (Djinni) writes:
>>
>>On 17 Feb 1996 01:31:02 GMT, faul...@ix.netcom.com(George R Faulkner
>>) wrote:
>>
>>>Why do some people insist on taking everything as an "attack", a
>>>"flame", or an "insult"? The way somebody takes a message depends
>>>on their nature, so anyone who takes everything as an insult
>>>or attack must think of nothing but insults, violence, anger,
>>>and hatred all day long.
>Does that look like a flame to you? If so, then you _really_ have
>problems. If not, then why the hell are you flaming me for it?
>In that message there was not a single word "asshole", "fuck",
>"shit", "loser", or anything other insults, nor was it directed
>at any particular person.
>
>>I suspect you take everything as an asshole ;)
>
>Uh, no. I'm not exactly clear what you mean by that. Maybe you
>should try learning good writing skills so you can make your
>messages understandable. And a ;) usually means that you're
>joking, which is usually isn't used in a flame, which, judging
>by the rest of your message, this was intended to be.
You are the one taking everything as a flame. YOU are the one trying
to pick on Mr.V without a reason at all. Also stating alot of BULLSHIT
and still saying: "Why do everyone take everything as a flame...." and
still flame them. Telling me I lack writing skills, got problems, etc.
THIS I TAKE AS A FUCKING FLAME!
"The way somebody takes a message depends
on their nature, so anyone who takes everything as an insult
or attack must think of nothing but insults, violence, anger,
and hatred all day long."
You wrote this, Dave. That's why I suspected you took everything as an
asshole. I also used the ;), to make sure you didn't take it as a
flame. But you did. Too easy to bait?
>>>Can't we all just get along?
>>>--
>>>Dave Faulkner
Of course, just shut up!
>Now your joining the "lets all gang up on Dave because he made a
>few comments that could by negative people be interpreted as
>flames" bandwagon.
Maybe there is a reason for this.
>>this one.
>
>What do you mean "Or maybe just this one." ?
I find you have a ego the size of your ...., or maybe your .sig is
just pissing me off.
<my own large sig removed>
>11 sigs are too long.
Only a stupid would say that after posting my entire .sig. You waste
more bandwith than me :)
>This, folks, is just what I mean. I post a message with no flames,
>and what do I get for it in return? Flames. Pretty soon I'll just
>have to start forwarding these things to the postmaster and have
>people's accounts disconnected. The worst thing of all is that
>these flames are coming from people who I previously thought to
>be nice, decent people, but my opinion has changed about them
>due to some of the things they've recently said. For instance,
>I always thought Jens was such a nice guy, but I suppose I
>was wrong. I always thought David Damerell was a nice guy,
>too, but I was wrong about him.
We are nice guys, but you were picking on the innocent and then
flaming people in all directions. Also flaming someone and then
telling him it's not a flame. It's not nice, when it's obvious, it's a
flame.
>Now, can we just call this THE END of this incredibly stupid
>thread. All it's accomplishing is making people complain of
>slow newsreaders and expensive phone bills. I'm sorry I
>originally posted that response to Jack, I didn't know it
>would piss everyone off so much. I bet people won't call
>this the end, though, since people just _love_ to argue,
>and insult and flame people under some stupid excuse that
>whoever they're insulting unwittingly provided, and people
>find it much easier to tell their newsreader to quote and
>respond to somebody's message and type in a few flames
>that took two seconds to think up rather than actually
>THINK of what the original message was intended to mean.
>Maybe I'll have to start writing Cliff Notes for my messages
>so that those too stupid (or too lazy) to tell the
>difference between a flame an a general comment can
>tell which my message was intended to be.
It's not nice to pick on Jack, just because he made some statements
for some time ago. Just so you know it, I am a registered user of Deep
and I have no problems. And yes, there is alot in Deep 8.35, which
warrants a new upgrade, but you wouldn't know, would you? You never
tried anything but DCK/HCK. DCK 3.0 is very nice, but way too slow.
>THIS IS THE END OF THIS THREAD. THE END. GOODBYE.
>GO READ AND RESPOND TO ANOTHER THREAD. LOOK IN THE
>DICTIONARY AND FIND THE DEFINITION OF INSULT. GO
>MAKE DOOM LEVELS. GO DO SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES
>MORE BRAINPOWER THAN BRAINLESS FLAMES.
Do you feel insulted?
<ego .sig killed>
Tom Gibson
DCK 2.2-f is supposed to fix the crashing problems of 2.2. I didn't see
any improvement.
DCK30 is out, and might as well be back in. It's like my cooking.
Full of bugs.