Avoiding the Grunfeld.
Ellery K Bann
Does the follow work:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 O-O 5.Nc3 when black cannot play ...d5
since he cannot afford to go on without a claim in the center, so i would
expect 5...d6 or maybe 5...c5.
The reason why is that i am used to the fianchetto variation of the king's
indian defence and the fianchetto variation of the benoni. Any help would
be appreciated.
-Ellery Bann
ba...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
Jeffrey Ely
>
>HI! I'm wondering how one can avoid the Grunfeld starting with 1.d4.
>The reason why is that i am used to the fianchetto variation of the king's
>indian defence and the fianchetto variation of the benoni. Any help would
>be appreciated.
You could open 1.c4 You will have to learn some independent lines
if black plays 1....c5, but you can avoid the grunfeld with 1.c4 Nf6
2.Nc3 g6 3.e4
If black is really itching to play the grunfeld he might play 2. ...d5,
but white gets an improved version since he has not commited to 2.d4.
Jeff
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Jeff Ely "The Sun's not yellow...
Department of Economics, UC Berkeley It's Chicken!"
je...@econ.berkeley.edu
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"...a man of great talent will normally pay less attention to other
people's foolishness than would a fool." -Proust
Joseph Albert
Ellery K Bann <ba...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu> wrote:
>HI! I'm wondering how one can avoid the Grunfeld starting with 1.d4.
>Does the follow work:
>
>1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 O-O 5.Nc3 when black cannot play ...d5
>since he cannot afford to go on without a claim in the center, so i would
>expect 5...d6 or maybe 5...c5.
you can also delay Nc3, playing Nf3 and 0-0 first, since d5 is usually
bad if white hasn't committed to Nc3 (after cxd5, Nxd5, e4, black
doesn't have Nxc3 and must retreat the N, which isn't great-- it
isn't active at b6, and blocks the dark square B at f6).
you cannot, however, avoid the grunfeld, but only force black to
play the Sletcher System with c6 and d5. what you avoid with
these move orders is the standard open gruenfeld positions.
in your line above, black can insist on a gruenfeld with 5 ... c6
and 6 ... d5 if that be black's desire. i think alot of gruenfeld
players however, might prefer transposing to the K's indian in these
positions.
Joseph Albert
alb...@cs.wisc.edu
Maher Saleh
In a previous article, ba...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Ellery K Bann) says:
>HI! I'm wondering how one can avoid the Grunfeld starting with 1.d4.
>Does the follow work:
>
>1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 O-O 5.Nc3 when black cannot play ...d5
>since he cannot afford to go on without a claim in the center, so i would
>expect 5...d6 or maybe 5...c5.
Don't be surprised when your opponent plays 4...d5!
>The reason why is that i am used to the fianchetto variation of the king's
>indian defence and the fianchetto variation of the benoni. Any help would
>be appreciated.
The best way to prevent the Grunfeld is to play 1. e4
--
__o Maher Saleh
_\<, ap...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
|/'(*) Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
.,(*),../""""
Paul A. Lane
>In a previous article, ba...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Ellery K Bann) says:
>>HI! I'm wondering how one can avoid the Grunfeld starting with 1.d4.
>>Does the follow work:
>>
>>1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 O-O 5.Nc3 when black cannot play ...d5
>>since he cannot afford to go on without a claim in the center, so i would
>>expect 5...d6 or maybe 5...c5.
Though not directly to your question, 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 ... seems to
have become awfully popular in my neck of the woods. Betwee July
(Des Moines Open) to Memorial day this year (Chicago Open), I did
not encounter 2. c4 once!
If you might be interested, check out some of the annotations to
the U.S. Amateur Team Championships. I believe some examples of
this are annotated by the winning team.
Paul
--
Fabian Maeser
ba...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu writes:
>HI! I'm wondering how one can avoid the Grunfeld starting with 1.d4.
>Does the follow work:
>
>1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 O-O 5.Nc3 when black cannot play ...d5
>since he cannot afford to go on without a claim in the center, so i would
>expect 5...d6 or maybe 5...c5.
>
king's
>indian defence and the fianchetto variation of the benoni. Any help would
>be appreciated.
>
>-Ellery Bann
>ba...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
In this line Black can play c6 followed by d5 - there's been some
Karpov-Kasparov games that went like this. I guess White has a
small advantage (especially if he's Karpov :-)
Another way to avoid the Grunfeld is 1.c4 (or Nf3) Nf6 2.Nf3 g6
3.Nc3 when 3...Bg7 can be answered with 4.e4 leading to a King's
Indian (after d7-d6). Of course, Black can play c7-c5 at some
point which leads to the English or Sicilian (Maroczy).
febi
Mark S. Hathaway
3. g3 d5 or 4. Bg2 d5 keeps Black in Gruenfeld territory.
If you're not intent on playing 2. c4 you could try
the Torre Attack with 2. Nf3 and 3. Bg5 or
the Trompowsky with 2. Bg5 or
the Colle with 2. Nf3, 3. e3, 4. Bd3 and no c2-c4 or
the Stonewall with 2. e3, 3. f4, 4. Nf3.
If you want to play 2. c4 then you could try 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. g3 O-O
5. Bg2 d5 6. cxd5 Nxd5 7. O-O. It's a Fianchetto Var., Gruenfeld where
Nb1-c3 is best met with Nd5-b6 (according to GM practice). This might be
more comfortable to you than the main line Exchange Var., Gruenfeld.
Black could also play c7-c6, d7-d5 to get to a Slav Gruenfeld.
Incidentally, there were some interesting Gruenfeld, Fianchetto Var.
games between Romanishin and Anand in their PCA/Intel Candidates Match
you could study.
Good luck,
Mark S. Hathaway <hath...@muvms6.mu.wvnet.edu>
James P Dix
>HI! I'm wondering how one can avoid the Grunfeld starting with 1.d4.
>Does the follow work:
>
>1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 O-O 5.Nc3 when black cannot play ...d5
>since he cannot afford to go on without a claim in the center, so i would
>expect 5...d6 or maybe 5...c5.
>
>The reason why is that i am used to the fianchetto variation of the
king's
>indian defence and the fianchetto variation of the benoni. Any help would
>be appreciated.
>
>ba...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
For what it's worth...
For several years I played nothing but the Gruenfeld (in Correspondence
Chess). I did have a fair amount of success with it. However, my sense
is that many of my opponents had some fear of it and didn't really know
how to play against it. The ones who successfully avoided it typically
played some sort of King's Indian Attack. Against the English, I had a
fair success with 1...e5 or 1...Nf6, 2...e5. 1...c5, of course, often
led to semi-open games. When I did play 1...g6 or 1...Nf6, 2...g6, I
still found playing ...d5 useful, although because White has more
flexibility than in the "standard" Gruenfeld, the "standard" Gruenfeld
plan didn't always pan out.
I am now trying to expand my repertoire. I currently have the feeling
that the Gruenfeld is probably not sound. Those more dedicated to this
defense than I might be able to plug the leaks, but it seems that White
has greater unexplored options. From my perspective you should not be
afraid of it. The best approach against it is probably the exchange
variation, but those games with an early Bf4 or even Bg5 are also very
good. Further, in consideration of your style, the Neo-Gruenfeld works
equally well.
Jim Dix
jim...@qmgate.arc.nasa.gov
Joseph F. Ford
: > In article <32c60p$r...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
: > ba...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Ellery K Bann) writes:
: > HI! I'm wondering how one can avoid the Grunfeld starting with 1.d4.
: > Does the follow work:
: >
: > 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 O-O 5.Nc3 when black cannot play ...d5
: > since he cannot afford to go on without a claim in the center, so i would
: > expect 5...d6 or maybe 5...c5.
: >
: > The reason why is that i am used to the fianchetto variation of the king's
: > indian defence and the fianchetto variation of the benoni. Any help would
: > be appreciated.
: 3. g3 d5 or 4. Bg2 d5 keeps Black in Gruenfeld territory.
:
: If you're not intent on playing 2. c4 you could try
: the Torre Attack with 2. Nf3 and 3. Bg5 or
: the Trompowsky with 2. Bg5 or
: the Colle with 2. Nf3, 3. e3, 4. Bd3 and no c2-c4 or
: the Stonewall with 2. e3, 3. f4, 4. Nf3.
Do any r.g.c.'ers have an opinion on 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6
3. f3 !? "Forcing" the Samiesch (sp) after 3. ... Bg7 4. e4.?
3. ... d5 4. cd Nd5 5. e4 Nb6 6. Nc3 followed by f4 seems to favor
white.
Michael Nieves
nie...@nieves.eglin.af.mil
David Hanley
: Do any r.g.c.'ers have an opinion on 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6
: 3. f3 !? "Forcing" the Samiesch (sp) after 3. ... Bg7 4. e4.?
: 3. ... d5 4. cd Nd5 5. e4 Nb6 6. Nc3 followed by f4 seems to favor
: white.
Why play f4? White looks good after developing the bishops,
queen-side castling, and g4.
You're right about white being better in this line, I think.
--
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