Stan Vaughan

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Leland L Fuerstman

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May 2, 2001, 10:00:25 AM5/2/01
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To Whom It May Concern:

Subject: Stan Vaughan

Before any of you jump of this guy's bandwagon, may I recommend that
you go to "Google"and type in Stan Vaughan. My knowledge, experience
and dubious opinion of Vaughan is based on his involvement in chess in
NC & SC back in the 70's. Since then, he has resided in many states.
It is my understanding that he is currently a resident of the state of
Nevada. A current USCF lawsuit now has him under court order "NOT to
represent himself as either a member or director of the USCF"

Respectfully,

NM Leland Fuerstman

Tom Klem

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May 3, 2001, 7:51:48 PM5/3/01
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Loathe as I am to write this,

hatred & bigotry have driven Stan Vaughan out of Chess.

Are you happy now?

There is no band wagon.


"Leland L Fuerstman" <lel...@juno.com> wrote in message
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Phil Innes

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May 3, 2001, 8:08:35 PM5/3/01
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In article <tf3rnua...@corp.supernews.com> , "Tom Klem"
<the...@666nospam.com> wrote:

> Loathe as I am to write this,
>
> hatred & bigotry have driven Stan Vaughan out of Chess.
>
> Are you happy now?
>
> There is no band wagon.

Heh Tom - if he was an actor he would be descrbed as "resting," a term to
cover a variety of possibilities, including 'unknown.'

If he still has a feeling for the game he'll be back, meanwhile my synopsis,
ex-cathedra USCF, seems to be becoming a truism, no? At some point the
pressure on the outside is greater than the centre can stand, and, unless a
more straightforward and centered chess program becomes evident, USCF will
collapse.

But also evident is the degree of chess thinking as displayed here, and that
it is drawn from ambition rather than experience, fatally mixed with various
degrees of cupidity.

Seems to me that Stan should decide to be a player, rather than an organiser
(or teacher, journalist...), and that it is regretable that there is not
sufficient structure in place to accommodate that.

You might both take heart from this sense of things, shared even at very
high levels of chess play.

Cordially, Phil Innes


Tom Klem

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May 3, 2001, 8:25:34 PM5/3/01
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As is oft the case, we agree.

"Phil Innes" <in...@together.net> wrote in message
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ches...@mindspring.com

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May 3, 2001, 9:54:17 PM5/3/01
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Tom Klem wrote in message ...

>Loathe as I am to write this,
>hatred & bigotry have driven Stan Vaughan out of Chess.
>Are you happy now?
>There is no band wagon.

Dear Tom,

First, it's good to have you back, I was getting concerned.

I'm afraid I may be partly responsible for this thread. As part of a
response to a posting about an "icon of chess", namely Whitaker, I asked
that Fuerstman post his evidence of Vaghan's cheating. As is common on
usenet, I got flamed for my troubles, and we see Fuerstman's tight logical
argument below.

A lot of smoke is blown about Vaughan, but no one can show me the fire.

Neil Brennen

Chessphoto

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May 3, 2001, 11:19:41 PM5/3/01
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Dear Mr. Brennen,

You have written:

>A lot of smoke is blown about Vaughan, but no one can show me the fire.
>

I'm inclined to believe the condemnation of others, because of my own personal
knowledge. As International Representative of the Chess Association for the
People of South Africa (CAPSA) during the anti-apartheid days, I was asked by
CAPSA to see if I could arrange sanctions against Vaughan for accepting
apartheid blood money to visit South Africa and play in the apartheid South
African Chess Federation's Open Championship. I support this claim, not with
documentation from CAPSA -- or other anti-apartheid sources -- but with the
following quotation from the apartheid SACF's unofficial organ, "South African
Chessplayer" (May - June, 1986; Vol. XXXIV, Nos. 5 & 6; Page 63):

" It has become a tradition to invite at least one strong overseas player to
each S. A. Open Championship. ... This year Dr. Stanley Vaughn of Fort Myers,
Florida, USA was the invited master. Vaughn was assigned a provisional rating
of 2350, but it soon became clear that he was at least 500 points over-rated.
He scored 6.5/11 (the 6.5 in the magazine was printed as 6 plus the standard
fraction symbol for one half, which I can't reproduce for this post) against an
average field of 1 614, and this was mainly due to his winning his last three
games against weak opposition.

"One wonders how the SACF came to invite Vaughn to South Africa. The
federation should be more careful in future. In fact, my feeling is that only
titled players should be invited to compete in official events. OTHERWISE THE
EXPENSE IS NOT WARRANTED . (The emphasis is mine -- JB.) Even if a player
such as Vaughn was worth his rating this would be almost equivalent to one more
top South African entering the event.

" ... "

On Page 67, Vaughan is mentioned again:

"What of the overseas Master? Ben Hosiosky played very well in this
tournament, but I'm sure he also regards the following game as a joke. Play it
over, it's worth a laugh'

(All of the following is in boldface, except the parenthetical annotations.)
" B. Hosiosky - S. Vaughn: 1 d4 c5; 2 d5 Nf6 3 c4 Ne4?!; 4 e3 Qa5+ (The idea
of this opening is to misplace White's Q-knight. Unfortunately, you need to
know more than the first four moves to play such an opening.) 5 Nd2 Nd6; 6 Nf3
f5 (Only Roger Schackis can play such an opening and survive.) 7 Bd3! e6; 8 0-0
Qd8; 9 e4 fxe4; 10 Nxe4 Nxe4; 11 Bxc4 Qf6; 12 Qb3! d6; 13 dxe6 Qe7; 14 Qb5+
1-0"

The article was written by David Goodman, who became South Africa's first IM
after the FIDE boycott of South Africa was lifted in 1992, because CAPSA, the
SACF and a relatively new organization -- the South African Chess Congress --
were all subsumed into the non-racial Chess South Africa.

Fraternally,

Jerome Bibuld

gens una sumus

Bill Smythe

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May 4, 2001, 3:20:31 AM5/4/01
to
Chessphoto wrote:

> .... the 6.5 in the magazine was printed as 6 plus the standard
>fraction symbol for one half, which I can't reproduce for this post ....
______________

Yes, you can, as follows:

1. Make sure your keyboard is in num-lock mode (num-lock light on).

2. Press the Alt key and hold it down.

3. While holding down the Alt key, press and release first 1, then 7, then
1, on the numeric keypad (NOT the number keys on the top row). Nothing will
appear on the screen just yet.

4. Now release the Alt key. Voila! ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ etc.

The ASCII code for the ½ character is 171. You can produce any character
from its ASCII code in this way. ASCII codes vary from 32 to 255 for
displayable characters. Uppercase letters A-Z have ASCII codes 65-90, for
example.

Bill Smythe

Sam Sloan

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May 4, 2001, 7:37:40 AM5/4/01
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On 04 May 2001 03:19:41 GMT, chess...@aol.comnospam (Chessphoto)
wrote:

>The article was written by David Goodman, who became South Africa's first IM
>after the FIDE boycott of South Africa was lifted in 1992, because CAPSA, the
>SACF and a relatively new organization -- the South African Chess Congress --
>were all subsumed into the non-racial Chess South Africa.
>
>Fraternally,
>
>Jerome Bibuld
>
>gens una sumus

David Goodman is an English International Master who now lives in New
York City.

How did he become South Africa's first IM?

I met him on the Lexington Avenue Subway line about one year ago. I
said in jest "I'm surprised they let you into the country."

Goodman replied, "I'm a US citizen now, so they can't keep me out."

Sam Sloan

Chessphoto

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May 4, 2001, 12:30:30 PM5/4/01
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I apologize for this crosspost, but I wanted to make sure that Spam Scam's
misinformation was corrected on both bbses that he had spammed.

Poor Spam Scam needs some background in our species. I'm not interested in
educating him, but I don;t want his misinformation to cloud my postings. (In
this case, I don;t believe he is lying or consciously scamming.)

There probably are more than two David Goodmans floating around on this planet
at present. Among them is the formerly English IM (who, incidentally was a
defender of the apartheidists, along with his associates -- both of whom, I
believe were in-laws -- David Levy and Raymond Keene). Another is the person
who played apartheid chess and became the first IM from South Africa, after
FIDE lifted its boycott. This latter David Goodman did indeed write the
article from which I quoted.

Fraternally,

Jerome Bibuld

gens una sumus

Chessphoto

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May 4, 2001, 12:50:35 PM5/4/01
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Dear Bill,

Thank you very much!

½, ½, ½, ½! Eureka!

Thanks again.

gens una sumus

Tom Klem

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May 4, 2001, 5:34:07 PM5/4/01
to
Well said. Thank you, I've been saying the same for years.

The only thing Vaughan is good for (as far as the USCF is concerned) is to
use as a straw man to scare the oligarchy to vote for them.

I'm afraid that warts and all, Stan Vaughan is head and shoulders above most
of the riff raff found on this newsgroup (including me), in the only
category that counts, playing Chess.

The lawyers admitted they had nothing wrong in June of '96, but the
political barrages continued unabated combined with the old "let's burn up
Vaughan's legal bucks" scenario, by continuing to demand that he give up his
rights to due process. They refused to abide by their agreement to conclude
in September of '96 (after the big lie convention) the matter, as it suited
the politicians to continue to be able to say that Vaughan was revoked, if
only to destroy Vaughan's Chess related student income and tournament
venues. Since this destruction was wrought by the memberships money, the
politicians had absolutely nothing to lose.

Until you (not you Neil, them) see how the destruction of one man not only
diminishes us, but prevents us from going forward as long as the outrage
continues unabated (false publication of revocations, recognition of
unlawfully non-elected air-heads in Nevada Chess, Inc), the USCF is probably
going to continue to decline. People have a way of avoiding the smell of
death, which in my opinion, continues to cling to the fabric of
non-democracy in the USCF.

I have been saying for over six years now, among other things, that OMOV
would go along way towards solving the problems. Once the membership becomes
aware of the goings on, the membership has the power, however infrequently
used, to sweep liars and bigots from our governance. As in chess, the threat
is often all that's needed to clean things up. All Vaughan, and the honest
hearted forty or fifty individuals who initially supported the revival of
the USCF Nevada affiliate through democratic process (mostly Masters and
Experts, I might add) were asking for was a fair hearing and due process.
Instead, we got Kangaroo Kourts, legal bills and headaches, and the
realization of the membership here (one by one), that nothing could be done,
so why give up Chess.

Some of OMOV's false friends, for their own personal reasons, continue to
secretly thwart OMOV at every turn. Their own interests, and their own
counsel they do keep, with regard to why they persist in the fantasy that
the USCF will right itself without OMOV, to their eternal shame. Through
this continued reliance on past failed practice, they doom the USCF to a
future riddled with self-doubt, shunning by honest people, and a "I don't
give a damn" attitude which permeates the voting membership.

If it smells like carrion, lies there like carrion and doesn't make a sound
(like carrion), it probably is carrion.

Watch the bigots and liars pick the carcass clean if you wish. I fought the
good fight. The fight (from my point of view) is over. We all lost.

Tom Klem

<ches...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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ches...@mindspring.com

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May 4, 2001, 7:31:32 PM5/4/01
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Tom Klem wrote in message ...
>Well said. Thank you, I've been saying the same for years.
(Snip)

You make me blush Tom, stop it!

But seriously, as with the frequent charges against Goichberg, some sort of
evidence, any evidence, should accompany such a charge, and it should be
investigated. However, unpopularity and gossip don't quite cut it. I hope
I'm not being classified as a defender of Vaughan; it's more that I believe
a certain level of information should go with presentations of hysteria as
proof.

>Until you (not you Neil, them) see how the destruction of one man not only
>diminishes us, but prevents us from going forward as long as the outrage
>continues unabated (false publication of revocations, recognition of
>unlawfully non-elected air-heads in Nevada Chess, Inc), the USCF is
probably
>going to continue to decline. People have a way of avoiding the smell of
>death, which in my opinion, continues to cling to the fabric of
>non-democracy in the USCF.

Perhaps, but I do not see the USCF's future as darkly as you do, my friend.

Well, I see Mr. Fuerstman has posted a response about Stan Vaughan, and he
gets his shot in at me also. I guess you'd better read it and make the poor
many happy.

Neil Brennen

Tom Klem

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May 4, 2001, 9:06:08 PM5/4/01
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Which charges against Goichberg do you seek redress for?

BTW, deja is back, and the archives are up. I presented lots and lots of
evidence over the past six years.

Tom Klem

<ches...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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ches...@mindspring.com

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May 4, 2001, 9:21:22 PM5/4/01
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Tom Klem wrote in message ...
>Which charges against Goichberg do you seek redress for?


None in particular, but the rating fixing charge has been surfacing lately.
Again, just like with Stan Vaughan.

>BTW, deja is back, and the archives are up. I presented lots and lots of
>evidence over the past six years.

I'll try to find some later. Thanks for the tip.

Neil Brennen


Tom Klem

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May 5, 2001, 1:07:09 AM5/5/01
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The ratings fixing stuff was originally reported by Tom Dorsch.

I'm sure he has all the evidence that he needs, even though Arpad Elo's no
longer around to verify, someone who knew him probably could.

As far as tarring Stan Vaughan with the same brush, as you would Bill
Goichberg, forget about it.

The lawyers in Nevada Judicial Administrative hearing held on June 22, 1996,
found no fault with Vaughan, even saying publically that they were
embarrassed to be present at the hearing and had no idea why they were there
(rough paraphrase of Ulrich Smith's comments as told me by third party).

In addition, the transcript of the event also shows that the lawyer's after
extensive testimony, found no harm, no foul, nothing violating any bylaw or
regulation then in force.

In addition to that, the USCF's star (and I mean this as in 'Star Chamber')
witnesses refused to appear, even though they were under subpaeona, and
after failing to show, were technically in contempt of court. Clearly, they
did not wish to repeat their lies under oath.

So tell me, pray tell, what legal scrutiny has Bill Goichberg ever been
subjected too by the USCF?

Oh, I'm sorry, there is a different standard for Bill Goichberg. Afterall,
he had keys to the building, didn't he?

What legal bills did Bill Goichberg ever have to spend (his own money), to
defend his good name and his business?

When was Bill Goichberg ever subjected to a three year witch hunt, during
which time little children were brow-beaten and subjected to hours of
harrassment and child abuse by scary looking old witches sent from New
Windsor?

How many children in the Hunter School program ever had to defend, let alone
name, hundreds of games they had played over three years with a score sheet,
and a recollection of what the weather was on the day they played the game?

The two fisted, pistol packing USCF struck a blow alright, but never against
Bill Goichberg. Only for and on behalf of him.

The fact is, the USCF strayed way afield of it's mission statement, and far
afield of anything resembling due process and basic fairness. Court
documentary evidence shows that most if not all of it, was at the behest of
William Jefferson Goichberg. But of course, there's no evidence against him
anywhere. Check google.

Let us hope those days are behind us.

I will never forget them, and if you really want to read about them let me
know. I'll post the newspapers we wrote here at the time for you if you
want. There's plenty of evidence in them, plus a few of the 'newly
converted' Goichberg/USGF lovers who told the truth before their forced
conversion in print.

Tom Klem

<ches...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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ches...@mindspring.com

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May 5, 2001, 1:26:00 AM5/5/01
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Dear Tom,

No attempt to tar anyone was made, I just stated both Vaughan and Goichberg
had come under fire on this issue recently.

This is just an observation.

Neil Brennen


Sam Sloan

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May 5, 2001, 3:43:53 AM5/5/01
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On Fri, 4 May 2001 18:06:08 -0700, "Tom Klem" <the...@666nospam.com>
wrote:

>Which charges against Goichberg do you seek redress for?
>
>BTW, deja is back, and the archives are up. I presented lots and lots of
>evidence over the past six years.
>
>Tom Klem

Sorry to see you back. I have been reading your posts for years and I
have never seen you make any specific charges against anybody, much
less provide evidence or facts to back them up.

You are just like a broken record, saying the same thing over and over
again.

When asked to produce proof, you say that it is in your files and you
will pull it out when you have a chance.

Sam Sloan

Sam Sloan

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May 5, 2001, 3:46:28 AM5/5/01
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On Fri, 4 May 2001 22:07:09 -0700, "Tom Klem" <the...@666nospam.com>
wrote:

>The ratings fixing stuff was originally reported by Tom Dorsch.


>
>I'm sure he has all the evidence that he needs, even though Arpad Elo's no
>longer around to verify, someone who knew him probably could.
>
>As far as tarring Stan Vaughan with the same brush, as you would Bill
>Goichberg, forget about it.
>
>The lawyers in Nevada Judicial Administrative hearing held on June 22, 1996,
>found no fault with Vaughan, even saying publically that they were
>embarrassed to be present at the hearing and had no idea why they were there
>(rough paraphrase of Ulrich Smith's comments as told me by third party).
>
>In addition, the transcript of the event also shows that the lawyer's after
>extensive testimony, found no harm, no foul, nothing violating any bylaw or
>regulation then in force.
>
>In addition to that, the USCF's star (and I mean this as in 'Star Chamber')
>witnesses refused to appear, even though they were under subpaeona, and
>after failing to show, were technically in contempt of court. Clearly, they
>did not wish to repeat their lies under oath.

You are doing the same thing again, making it sound like you won the
case when actually you lost the case.

The end result of the case was that a judgment in favor of the USCF
was entered, a fact you neglect to mention.

Sam Sloan

Tom Klem

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May 5, 2001, 1:13:36 PM5/5/01
to
Nothing personal, I'm sure.

Alright. Can we agree that you mentioned the two in the "same breath", and
let it go at that.

I'm sure you didn't mean it as if to say, they are both equally guilty of
anything.

Tom Klem

<ches...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
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Tom Klem

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May 5, 2001, 1:14:20 PM5/5/01
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You obviously missed my previous posts.

How are you?

Tom Klem

"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
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Tom Klem

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May 5, 2001, 1:15:16 PM5/5/01
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Yes you are right, the record is broken. You now hold the record (er, it's
pieces), in your hot little hands.


"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message

news:3af3ae39...@nntp.mindspring.com...

ches...@mindspring.com

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May 5, 2001, 7:22:12 PM5/5/01
to

Tom Klem wrote in message ...
>Nothing personal, I'm sure.
>
>Alright. Can we agree that you mentioned the two in the "same breath", and
>let it go at that.
>
>I'm sure you didn't mean it as if to say, they are both equally guilty of
>anything.


Correct.


Tom Klem

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May 5, 2001, 9:19:40 PM5/5/01
to
Fair enough.

The thing which always rings my bells on this subject, is the FACT that
Vaughan's detractors couldn't beat him legitimately, either over the board,
or as a teacher here in Nevada, so they resorted to using the USCF's
governance machinery to destroy him. They suceeded, with Goichberg's help,
beyond their wildest dreams. Chess is mostly dead in Nevada.
Congratulations.

I'm certain from everything which I have read on this subject, that Bill
Goichberg played a large role in all of this, and I think even the most
dispassionate reader here could connect the dots as to why the USCF's
largest organizer would want to destroy a competitor. Had it been through
business means, ie: driving him out of business with better product at lower
prices, no harm no foul.

Since the above stated concept is as far from the Goichbergian mindset as
any meglomaniac you could find in history, I will simply state the obvious;
unfair Chess organization; dead Chess organization.

No one with half a live brain cell is going to build anything on clay or
loose rock. Neither will they attempt to build customers for an organization
with a proven, and as yet unredressed, track record for the destruction of
innocent hobbiests.

Stagnation == Failure.

If you are not growing, and you fail to address the reasons, you are either
stupid, or in the employ of the one wishing to destroy you. Take your pick.

(the YOU in the above statements is not meant to case any aspersions on
either the reader or Neil Brennen).

Tom Klem

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Sam Sloan

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May 6, 2001, 6:15:55 AM5/6/01
to
On Sat, 5 May 2001 18:19:40 -0700, "Tom Klem" <the...@666nospam.com>
wrote:

>Fair enough.

Chess is mostly dead in Nevada? What about the National Open last
month, which you did not attend, probably the strongest chess event
ever held in the US, with the exception of the FIDE World Championship
which was held in Las Vegas in 1999.

Las Vegas also has its own chess e-mail list, the only community in
America to do so.

Las Vegas has the most active chess community in America and you are
no longer part of it.

Sam sloan

StanB

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May 6, 2001, 10:17:47 AM5/6/01
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"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message

> Las Vegas has the most active chess community in America

Nonsense.

StanB


ches...@mindspring.com

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May 6, 2001, 11:45:25 AM5/6/01
to

Sam Sloan wrote in message <3af52336...@nntp.mindspring.com>...

>Las Vegas has the most active chess community in America...

What happened to New York? I though they were number one.

Also, isn't San Francisco perhaps more "active" than Las Vegas?

Neil Brennen


ASCACHESS

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May 6, 2001, 1:28:15 PM5/6/01
to
>
>What happened to New York? I though they were number one.
>
>Also, isn't San Francisco perhaps more "active" than Las Vegas?
>
>Neil Brennen

What about Phoenix? They certainly have many times the membership of Las
Vegas.
Perhaps there is an Las Vegas email list because there are so few that no one
complains about all of them being listed.

Richard Peterson

Tom Klem

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May 6, 2001, 2:03:11 PM5/6/01
to
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Blah!

"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:3af52336...@nntp.mindspring.com...

StanB

unread,
May 6, 2001, 2:31:39 PM5/6/01
to

<ches...@mindspring.com> wrote in message >

> Sam Sloan wrote in message

> >Las Vegas has the most active chess community in America...

> What happened to New York? I though they were number one.
> Also, isn't San Francisco perhaps more "active" than Las Vegas?

As is the Balt-Wash area.

StanB

Michael Gosselin

unread,
May 6, 2001, 3:16:26 PM5/6/01
to
In article <9ctl6h$e92$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>, "Bill Smythe"
<chic...@enteract.com> wrote:

>Chessphoto wrote:
>
>> .... the 6.5 in the magazine was printed as 6 plus the standard
>>fraction symbol for one half, which I can't reproduce for this post ....
>______________
>
>Yes, you can, as follows:
>

That's only if you're on a PC. On the mac, I get a pi symbol.

This is, btw, one of my pet peeves about the two systems. What was so
WRONG about using the same system?

--
Michael Gosselin

doanf...@home.com

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May 6, 2001, 3:52:33 PM5/6/01
to

IBM used (uses) a lot of the 128-255 character range for a bewildering array
of box drawing characters since boxes and the like had to be produced in text
mode (the resolution of the graphics on the original PC's made a text-graphics
display infeasible). Pretty much all of the USCF's software uses text mode
displays. Lots of boxes. The Mac, on the other hand, drew everything in
graphics mode, including the text, and so was able to use the high ASCII codes
differently.

Tom Doan

Tom Klem

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May 6, 2001, 7:15:46 PM5/6/01
to

"Michael Gosselin" <nile...@enoaidem.ten> wrote in message
news:nilessog-060...@192.168.1.254...

To answer your question simply, "Hypercompetition"

In the "bad" old days of DOS, no two different brands of machines could talk
to each other, let alone transfer files (a necessary facility, as I recall
it), keyboard compatibility? Not a chance.

Hypercompetitiveness means cutting off the competition at it's knees, and
it's communications.

Natch, I'm writing to you this on a Microsoft "broken" keyboard, which skips
keystrokes. But, Mickeysoft won the war, and here we are. I actually prefer
all things MickeySoftically.

The fact that ASCII was even invented still astonishes me to this day.

IBM's favorite dictum, "Anything that can be divided, can be controlled" ---
Seems like a familiar theme these days in the Chess world.

Tom Klem

ches...@mindspring.com

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May 6, 2001, 10:00:45 PM5/6/01
to
Tom Klem wrote in message ...
>Blah, blah blah....

Tom, that was a rather blah post.

Neil Brennen


Tom Klem

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May 7, 2001, 1:30:27 AM5/7/01
to
I'm afraid we agree again. Oh darn.

:)
<ches...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9d4vhi$4vt$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...

Bill Smythe

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May 7, 2001, 10:54:06 PM5/7/01
to
Michael Gosselin wrote:

>That's only if you're on a PC. On the mac, I get a pi symbol.

_______________

Odds are ½ has a different ASCII code on the Mac. Try each one from 128
through 255 to see what it is on yours.

The next question is, if you go for 171 on your Mac and get a pi symbol,
then post it on RGCP, will IBM users see a pi or a one-half?

Bill Smythe

Michael Gosselin

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May 8, 2001, 8:15:13 PM5/8/01
to
In article <5YhJ6.27674$3c6.7...@news1.elmhst1.il.home.com>,
doanf...@home.com wrote:

I read Bill's reply, then deleted it before I could test.

Okay, Bill, here's what I'm doing. I'm going to the Key Caps application,
and I'm going to insert pi here. Ready? Ľ Oh, that's only the lower
case. Here's Pi. ˝

Now, since I know these shortcuts, I'm going to type them here.

First, Pi. ˝

Now, pi. Ľ

Other funny things: If I look at a crosstable with a half (1/2, but
smaller) symbol, I get an Omega. Like this: ‡. That's option-z on the
Mac.

So, I guess if I go to work tomorrow, and look at these on the computer,
I'll see the half, and two other symbols.

And all this time, I thought it was half-K.

BTW: when I do a web crosstable, I manually change the halves to "1/2" and
reduce the font. One day, I'm going to write a script.

--
Michael Gosselin

Bill Smythe

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May 8, 2001, 8:28:51 PM5/8/01