Pinocchio's nose and Susan Polgar

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samsloan

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Jul 13, 2009, 8:42:01 AM7/13/09
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The home page of ChessBase magazine today has a picture of Pinocchio's
nose.

http://www.chessbase.com/index.asp

"12.07.2009 – Chess authors and publishers have a tendency to become
over-excited, to put it mildly, when trying to induce potential
customers to part with their money. But a darker side also emerges on
occasion. With some grim examples the Editor of Chess Notes shows that
there are cases where hype tips over into something far more
reprehensible. It is time for a reality check."

This leads to an article entitled "reality check" by Edward Winter in
which he points out what many others have noticed, that Susan Polgar
has a habit of greatly exaggerating her actual accomplishments.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5578

"Regarding titles for over-the-board play, authors and publishers
often lose all sense of proportion. The following comes from the back
cover of A World Champion’s Guide to Chess by Susan Polgar and Paul
Truong (New York, 2005):

"There is much more. The front and back covers also describe
‘Grandmaster Susan Polgar’ as ‘Four-time Women’s World Chess
Champion’, ‘2004 Olympiad Gold Medalist’, ‘a living legend’ and ‘a
four-time Women’s World Champion and the top-ranked woman chess player
in the United States’. Once the reader’s toes have uncurled after that
torrent, he may feel that the boasting mainly springs from vain
indecorum rather than an attempt to deceive"

One wonders: Will Susan Polgar now sue Chess Base Magazine for
comparing her to Pinocchio? Perhaps for $26 million this time, uping
the ante?

Sam Sloan

Taylor Kingston

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Jul 13, 2009, 9:01:08 AM7/13/09
to

Funny, the article does not seem to be there at the moment. The
latest entry is #5577, about Kramnik winning Dortmund. No #5578, at
least at this time.

Kalyan

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Jul 13, 2009, 9:40:58 AM7/13/09
to
On Jul 13, 6:01 pm, Taylor Kingston <taylor.kings...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> least at this time.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I could see the article. It also has potshots at Keene and Schiller
and links to Kingpin reviews/satire. And then it was gone. Could it be
that Chessbase was threatened with a lawsuit?

samsloan

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Jul 13, 2009, 9:49:19 AM7/13/09
to

Amazing. The article disappeared right before our very eyes. It was
there and then an instant later it was gone.

I will bet that Jim Killion, Susan Polgar's lawyer in Texas, made a
threatening telephone call to ChessBase Magazine in Germany
threatening legal action if they did not take down the article
comparing his client to Pinocchio.

Sam Sloan

MrVidmar

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Jul 13, 2009, 10:17:59 AM7/13/09
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samsloan wrote:
> On Jul 13, 9:40 am, Kalyan <kkolach...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 13, 6:01 pm, Taylor Kingston <taylor.kings...@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 13, 8:42 am, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The home page of ChessBase magazine today has a picture of Pinocchio's
>>>> nose.
>>>> http://www.chessbase.com/index.asp
>>>> "12.07.2009 � Chess authors and publishers have a tendency to become

>>>> over-excited, to put it mildly, when trying to induce potential
>>>> customers to part with their money. But a darker side also emerges on
>>>> occasion. With some grim examples the Editor of Chess Notes shows that
>>>> there are cases where hype tips over into something far more
>>>> reprehensible. It is time for a reality check."
>>>> This leads to an article entitled "reality check" by Edward Winter in
>>>> which he points out what many others have noticed, that Susan Polgar
>>>> has a habit of greatly exaggerating her actual accomplishments.
>>>> http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5578
>>>> "Regarding titles for over-the-board play, authors and publishers
>>>> often lose all sense of proportion. The following comes from the back
>>>> cover of A World Champion�s Guide to Chess by Susan Polgar and Paul

>>>> Truong (New York, 2005):
>>>> "There is much more. The front and back covers also describe
>>>> �Grandmaster Susan Polgar� as �Four-time Women�s World Chess
>>>> Champion�, �2004 Olympiad Gold Medalist�, �a living legend� and �a
>>>> four-time Women�s World Champion and the top-ranked woman chess player
>>>> in the United States�. Once the reader�s toes have uncurled after that

>>>> torrent, he may feel that the boasting mainly springs from vain
>>>> indecorum rather than an attempt to deceive"
>>>> One wonders: Will Susan Polgar now sue Chess Base Magazine for
>>>> comparing her to Pinocchio? Perhaps for $26 million this time, uping
>>>> the ante?
>>>> Sam Sloan
>>> Funny, the article does not seem to be there at the moment. The
>>> latest entry is #5577, about Kramnik winning Dortmund. No #5578, at
>>> least at this time.- Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> I could see the article. It also has potshots at Keene and Schiller
>> and links to Kingpin reviews/satire. And then it was gone. Could it be
>> that Chessbase was threatened with a lawsuit?
>
> Amazing. The article disappeared right before our very eyes. It was
> there and then an instant later it was gone.
>
> I will bet that Jim Killion, Susan Polgar's lawyer in Texas, made a
> threatening telephone call to ChessBase Magazine in Germany
> threatening legal action if they did not take down the article
> comparing his client to Pinocchio.
>
> Sam Sloan
It has indeed been pulled. However, I do have a copy of it and will
make it available later today for all to see. Ironically, it does not
accuse them of lying. Rather, it highlights their puffery.

The Historian

unread,
Jul 13, 2009, 10:23:16 AM7/13/09
to

The article is back up, sans reference to Polgar and Truong.

foad

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Jul 13, 2009, 10:51:54 AM7/13/09
to

"MrVidmar" <vid...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:f5adnSa2563H38bX...@giganews.com...

Good thinking laughingstock. That way, if it was taken down because it was
libelous, Polgar can sue you for re publishing it. Which'd be quite amusing.

PS When did you stop hot saucing your wife?

PPS ARCHIVED

MrVidmar

unread,
Jul 13, 2009, 11:14:12 AM7/13/09
to
The clip art of Pinocchio's nose is still up as is the lead in written
by chessbase. The words that chessbase has pulled are correctly quoted
above by Sloan and do not contain anything false. Polgar dust jacket
puffery is out there for all to see. Vain in-decorum is another way of
saying "puffery." Puffery is defined as

puff�ery \'p?-f(?-)re-\ n (1782) : exaggerated commendation esp. for
promotional purposes : hype

Being accused of hype is not the same as being accused of
untruthfulness. Just like being criticized is not the same as being
defamed. But, you understand that, Paul.

samsloan

unread,
Jul 13, 2009, 11:30:25 AM7/13/09
to
On Jul 13, 10:23 am, The Historian <neil.thehistor...@gmail.com>

Right. The picture of Pinocchio's Nose is back up and the article by
Edward Winter is back up too except that the entire sections of the
article discussing the outrageous fabrications and exaggerations by
Susan Polgar have been deleted from the article.

Sam Sloan

foad

unread,
Jul 13, 2009, 12:23:00 PM7/13/09
to

"MrVidmar" <vid...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:AKudnXdhouQX0sbX...@giganews.com...

My name's not Paul you fucking retard.

ChessFire

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Jul 13, 2009, 1:52:53 PM7/13/09
to

Quite possibly next week Chessbase will do a peep show comparing Sam
Sloan to another part of Pinocchio's anatomy? The simile need only be
suggested to be universally intuited.

They can take it down as soon as anyone notices it, for fear of
litigious Americans reaching across the ocean.

I note, BTW, that the real Pinocchio had his strings pulled.

[not to Spinrod and Kingbone, this is not a sexual allusion]

Phil Innes

Kalyan

unread,
Jul 13, 2009, 2:20:43 PM7/13/09
to
On Jul 13, 8:14 pm, MrVidmar <vid...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> foad wrote:
>
> > "MrVidmar" <vid...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >news:f5adnSa2563H38bX...@giganews.com...
> >> samsloan wrote:
> >>> On Jul 13, 9:40 am, Kalyan <kkolach...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Jul 13, 6:01 pm, Taylor Kingston <taylor.kings...@comcast.net>
> >>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Jul 13, 8:42 am, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> The home page of ChessBase magazine today has a picture of
> >>>>>> Pinocchio's
> >>>>>> nose.
> >>>>>>http://www.chessbase.com/index.asp
> >>>>>> "12.07.2009 – Chess authors and publishers have a tendency to become

> >>>>>> over-excited, to put it mildly, when trying to induce potential
> >>>>>> customers to part with their money. But a darker side also emerges on
> >>>>>> occasion. With some grim examples the Editor of Chess Notes shows
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>> there are cases where hype tips over into something far more
> >>>>>> reprehensible. It is time for a reality check."
> >>>>>> This leads to an article entitled "reality check" by Edward Winter in
> >>>>>> which he points out what many others have noticed, that Susan Polgar
> >>>>>> has a habit of greatly exaggerating her actual accomplishments.
> >>>>>>http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5578
> >>>>>> "Regarding titles for over-the-board play, authors and publishers
> >>>>>> often lose all sense of proportion. The following comes from the back
> >>>>>> cover of A World Champion’s Guide to Chess by Susan Polgar and Paul

> >>>>>> Truong (New York, 2005):
> >>>>>> "There is much more. The front and back covers also describe
> >>>>>> ‘Grandmaster Susan Polgar’ as ‘Four-time Women’s World Chess
> >>>>>> Champion’, ‘2004 Olympiad Gold Medalist’, ‘a living legend’ and ‘a
> >>>>>> four-time Women’s World Champion and the top-ranked woman chess
> >>>>>> player
> >>>>>> in the United States’. Once the reader’s toes have uncurled after
> puff·ery \'p?-f(?-)re-\  n (1782) : exaggerated commendation esp. for

> promotional purposes : hype
>
> Being accused of hype is not the same as being accused of
> untruthfulness.  Just like being criticized is not the same as being
> defamed. But, you understand that, Paul.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Just noticed that this issue is also being discussed in Mig's blog.

jspinrad

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Jul 13, 2009, 3:08:53 PM7/13/09
to
On Jul 13, 9:17 am, MrVidmar <vid...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> samsloan wrote:
> > On Jul 13, 9:40 am, Kalyan <kkolach...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Jul 13, 6:01 pm, Taylor Kingston <taylor.kings...@comcast.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> On Jul 13, 8:42 am, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> The home page of ChessBase magazine today has a picture of Pinocchio's
> >>>> nose.
> >>>>http://www.chessbase.com/index.asp
> >>>> "12.07.2009 – Chess authors and publishers have a tendency to become

> >>>> over-excited, to put it mildly, when trying to induce potential
> >>>> customers to part with their money. But a darker side also emerges on
> >>>> occasion. With some grim examples the Editor of Chess Notes shows that
> >>>> there are cases where hype tips over into something far more
> >>>> reprehensible. It is time for a reality check."
> >>>> This leads to an article entitled "reality check" by Edward Winter in
> >>>> which he points out what many others have noticed, that Susan Polgar
> >>>> has a habit of greatly exaggerating her actual accomplishments.
> >>>>http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5578
> >>>> "Regarding titles for over-the-board play, authors and publishers
> >>>> often lose all sense of proportion. The following comes from the back
> >>>> cover of A World Champion’s Guide to Chess by Susan Polgar and Paul

> >>>> Truong (New York, 2005):
> >>>> "There is much more. The front and back covers also describe
> >>>> ‘Grandmaster Susan Polgar’ as ‘Four-time Women’s World Chess
> >>>> Champion’, ‘2004 Olympiad Gold Medalist’, ‘a living legend’ and ‘a
> >>>> four-time Women’s World Champion and the top-ranked woman chess player
> >>>> in the United States’. Once the reader’s toes have uncurled after that

> >>>> torrent, he may feel that the boasting mainly springs from vain
> >>>> indecorum rather than an attempt to deceive"
> >>>> One wonders: Will Susan Polgar now sue Chess Base Magazine for
> >>>> comparing her to  Pinocchio? Perhaps for $26 million this time, uping
> >>>> the ante?
> >>>> Sam Sloan
> >>>   Funny, the article does not seem to be there at the moment. The
> >>> latest entry is #5577, about Kramnik winning Dortmund. No #5578, at
> >>> least at this time.- Hide quoted text -
> >>> - Show quoted text -
> >> I could see the article. It also has potshots at Keene and Schiller
> >> and links to Kingpin reviews/satire. And then it was gone. Could it be
> >> that Chessbase was threatened with a lawsuit?
>
> > Amazing. The article disappeared right before our very eyes. It was
> > there and then an instant later it was gone.
>
> > I will bet that Jim Killion, Susan Polgar's lawyer in Texas, made a
> > threatening telephone call to ChessBase Magazine in Germany
> > threatening legal action if they did not take down the article
> > comparing his client to Pinocchio.
>
> > Sam Sloan
>
> It has indeed been pulled.  However, I do have a copy of it and will
> make it available later today for all to see.  Ironically, it does not
> accuse them of lying.  Rather, it highlights their puffery.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I would not make it available without getting the permission of Winter
first, as a proprietary issue as opposed to any libel issue.

It is barely possible that Chessbase was only asked to remove this
portion of the article until after the election, and consented to do
so. If, as seems far more likely, they were threatened with a lawsuit,
that would be an example of boorish (though not illegal) behavior,
which would be appropriate for discussion in a political campaign. Can
any supporters of Polgar and Truong find out whether they had this
article taken down with threats of a lawsuit? I hope we can all agree
that Winter's statements were well within the bounds of acceptable
general discussion, and do not deserve threats of legal action.

Jerry Spinrad

Offramp

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Jul 13, 2009, 3:16:06 PM7/13/09
to
That is right - it has definitely changed since I read it this
morning. However, Winter, as usual, did little more than quote the
actual text before his eyes, ie the back cover blurb.

None

unread,
Jul 13, 2009, 7:46:52 PM7/13/09
to
On Jul 13, 11:14 am, MrVidmar <vid...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> foad wrote:
>
> > "MrVidmar" <vid...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >news:f5adnSa2563H38bX...@giganews.com...
> >> samsloan wrote:
> >>> On Jul 13, 9:40 am, Kalyan <kkolach...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Jul 13, 6:01 pm, Taylor Kingston <taylor.kings...@comcast.net>
> >>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Jul 13, 8:42 am, samsloan <samhsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> The home page of ChessBase magazine today has a picture of
> >>>>>> Pinocchio's
> >>>>>> nose.
> >>>>>>http://www.chessbase.com/index.asp
> >>>>>> "12.07.2009 – Chess authors and publishers have a tendency to become

> >>>>>> over-excited, to put it mildly, when trying to induce potential
> >>>>>> customers to part with their money. But a darker side also emerges on
> >>>>>> occasion. With some grim examples the Editor of Chess Notes shows
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>> there are cases where hype tips over into something far more
> >>>>>> reprehensible. It is time for a reality check."
> >>>>>> This leads to an article entitled "reality check" by Edward Winter in
> >>>>>> which he points out what many others have noticed, that Susan Polgar
> >>>>>> has a habit of greatly exaggerating her actual accomplishments.
> >>>>>>http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5578
> >>>>>> "Regarding titles for over-the-board play, authors and publishers
> >>>>>> often lose all sense of proportion. The following comes from the back
> >>>>>> cover of A World Champion’s Guide to Chess by Susan Polgar and Paul

> >>>>>> Truong (New York, 2005):
> >>>>>> "There is much more. The front and back covers also describe
> >>>>>> ‘Grandmaster Susan Polgar’ as ‘Four-time Women’s World Chess
> >>>>>> Champion’, ‘2004 Olympiad Gold Medalist’, ‘a living legend’ and ‘a
> >>>>>> four-time Women’s World Champion and the top-ranked woman chess
> >>>>>> player
> >>>>>> in the United States’. Once the reader’s toes have uncurled after
> puff·ery \'p?-f(?-)re-\  n (1782) : exaggerated commendation esp. for

> promotional purposes : hype
>
> Being accused of hype is not the same as being accused of
> untruthfulness.  Just like being criticized is not the same as being
> defamed. But, you understand that, Paul.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Puffery is quite acceptable pursuant to article 2 of the Uniform
Commercial Code.

samsloan

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Jul 14, 2009, 6:52:42 AM7/14/09
to
[quote="artichoke"][quote]Downmarket it is a different story. As
reported in C.N. 2345, the dust-jacket of Chess by K.M. Grover and T.
Wiswell (London, 1952) stated: ‘Kenneth M. Grover, when 12 years old,
was hailed as a chess child-prodigy, and today he is America’s number-
one chess player.[/quote]

I wouldn't say "downmarket" for that one. Wiswell was the real world
champion for many years, of checkers. I dunno about Grover, but
Wiswell was the real thing.[/quote]

I knew Ken Grover. He was at one point America's Number One Checker
Player.

He was a chess master too. He won the 1964 Koltanowski Chess Friends
Money Tournament in Oakland California, defeating Peter Cleghorn,
rated 2350, in the last round.

Last I knew him was in 1967 when he was a professional Poker Player
playing every day at the Oakes Club in Emeryville, California.

Sam Sloan

RayLopez99

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Jul 14, 2009, 9:30:06 AM7/14/09
to
On Jul 13, 9:01 am, Taylor Kingston <taylor.kings...@comcast.net>
wrote:

>
>   Funny, the article does not seem to be there at the moment. The
> latest entry is #5577, about Kramnik winning Dortmund. No #5578, at
> least at this time.

How do you find CHess LIfe except as a subscriber through the mails?
I remember the days when it was buried at the back of the magazine
stand at Barnes and Noble bookstores.

RL

samsloan

unread,
Jul 14, 2009, 5:11:57 PM7/14/09
to

Eric Osbun has corrected me.

Ken Grover won the Chess Friend's Money Tournament, defeating Peter
Cleghorn in the last round, in 1963, not in 1964.

Nobody knew who he was at the time, as he had just arrived in the Bay
Area. It was a real shock.

Sam Sloan

Rob

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Jul 24, 2009, 8:58:11 PM7/24/09
to
The suspected author of the book "My 61 Memorable Games" has stated
the Fischer's closest Icelandic friends were liars!

http://my61fraud.blogspot.com/

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