Edward Spring is Tom Dorsch
Sam Sloan
I am surprised at this result. Tom Dorsch has not posted to this
newsgroup since about June, 2001. Just before dropping out, Dorsch was
involved in a heated exchange of attacks on Jim Pechac. My theory as
to the reason Dorsch dropped out is that Redman, a Dorsch ally and a
Pechac backer, told him to bug off.
Tom Dorsch and Edward Spring are both AOL users.
No person other than Dorsch shares the views of Edward Spring.
Sam Sloan
Bruce Draney
>
> It is virtually a proven fact that Edward Spring is Tom Dorsch.
Edward Spring may be Tom Dorsch, but I am not completely convinced.
>
> I am surprised at this result. Tom Dorsch has not posted to this
> newsgroup since about June, 2001. Just before dropping out, Dorsch was
> involved in a heated exchange of attacks on Jim Pechac. My theory as
> to the reason Dorsch dropped out is that Redman, a Dorsch ally and a
> Pechac backer, told him to bug off.
Dorsch broke with Redman over several foolish policy decisions,
including but not limited to, decisions to downsize B&E, and to raise
TLA rates.
>
> Tom Dorsch and Edward Spring are both AOL users.
Wow. That really narrows it down Sam. Great detective work.
>
> No person other than Dorsch shares the views of Edward Spring.
Now reread that statement Sam. Do you really believe first of all that
Edward Spring who seems fairly kind towards Goichberg is Tom Dorsch?
Also, what are Edward Spring's "views"? He seems to hate George John.
But he seems fairly friendly to you, hardly a Tom Dorsch
characteristic. Isn't Tom one of those people who attacked you at least
10 times a day? Didn't Edward Spring say he lived in New York? Didn't
he say he was supporting you for the Board?
Someone may have copped an old Dorsch identity and begun posting under
that name to make us think it was Dorsch. George believes that Edward
Spring is Tom Dorsch, but I need some convincing. He doesn't seem
nearly anti-Goichberg enough to me. Actually Joe Mama seems a lot more
anti-Goichberg than Edward Spring does. Maybe Joe Mama and Edward
Spring are the same person.
>
> Sam Sloan
Best Regards,
Bruce
5th Imperial Knight
wrote:
>It is virtually a proven fact that Edward Spring is Tom Dorsch.
Great!! I can't wait to read this.
>I am surprised at this result. Tom Dorsch has not posted to this
>newsgroup since about June, 2001. Just before dropping out, Dorsch was
>involved in a heated exchange of attacks on Jim Pechac. My theory as
>to the reason Dorsch dropped out is that Redman, a Dorsch ally and a
>Pechac backer, told him to bug off.
Gee, no kidding? Okay, on to the proof.
>Tom Dorsch and Edward Spring are both AOL users.
Ummm, along with millions of other users.
>No person other than Dorsch shares the views of Edward Spring.
Not sure what Mr. Spring's views are. Aside from using lots of
profanity and calling people names, confabulation is not his strong
suit. I don't even bother reading his posts anymore. I am also
unaware of Mr. Dorsh's views. I realize that everyone else will be
able to make this comparison and agree with you. However,
I was wondering if you could possibly post just a wee bit more PROOF.
Just for my sake.
Thank you
5th Knight
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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ASCACHESS
You seem to have forgotten the numerous misspellings.
But, it is always a pleasure to see you mind at werk.
Richard Peterson
Sam Sloan
> Now reread that statement Sam. Do you really believe first of all that
>Edward Spring who seems fairly kind towards Goichberg is Tom Dorsch?
>Also, what are Edward Spring's "views"? He seems to hate George John.
>But he seems fairly friendly to you, hardly a Tom Dorsch
>characteristic. Isn't Tom one of those people who attacked you at least
>10 times a day? Didn't Edward Spring say he lived in New York? Didn't
>he say he was supporting you for the Board?
It is absolutely true and a valid point that Edward Spring so far has
not attacked me or Bill Goichberg, which Tom Dorsch used to do every
day, and has attacked George John, which I do not remember Tom Dorsch
doing.
However, the explanation is that Dorsch does not want to tip off
everybody as to who he is. If he had been attacking Goichberg and
myself, we would have figured out his identity long ago.
Sam Sloan
Neil Brennen
> It is virtually a proven fact that Edward Spring is Tom Dorsch.
Where is the "smoking gun", Sam?
> I am surprised at this result. Tom Dorsch has not posted to this
> newsgroup since about June, 2001. Just before dropping out, Dorsch was
> involved in a heated exchange of attacks on Jim Pechac. My theory as
> to the reason Dorsch dropped out is that Redman, a Dorsch ally and a
> Pechac backer, told him to bug off.
>
> Tom Dorsch and Edward Spring are both AOL users.
> No person other than Dorsch shares the views of Edward Spring.
James Eade, perhaps? Or some person yet unknown?
Neil Brennen
Petrel
Sam Sloan wrote in message <3c650dd2...@ca.news.verio.net>...
>It is virtually a proven fact that Edward Spring is Tom Dorsch.
The cat doesn't stay in the bag very long around here, does it?
I can think of at least three rgcp regulars, other than Sam, who have come
to the same conclusion. One of them is myself. Silversneak/Spring is
either Tom Dorsch, or someone deliberately framing him, or
someone in his household. This is not confidential information, it's based
on an hour or two of Google-searching.
- 'Silversneak' has only two surviving posts in the Google USENET archive
before December 2001. The first was on December 26, 2000, to r.g.c.p. It
was in the middle of a back-and-forth exchange between Stan Booz and Tom
Dorsch. Dorsch posted under his own name, Booz responded, Dorsch responded
thus:
From: silve...@aol.comspamless (Silversneak)
Booz responded to that, and Dorsch responded again under his own handle.
THAT silversneak was Dorsch with 100% certainty.
Booz may remember this. This is why I sort of thought that when Sloan said
he thought Silversneak was from the 'New York area', and Booz responded 'or
Northern New Jersey', this might have been an arch reference: Not northern
New Jersey, but Northern California. Booz has denied this since, but maybe
he knew it SUBCONSCIOUSLY. :-)
- The other surviving old Silversneak post was to rec.collecting.coins in
September, 2001. A little searching shows that Dorsch used to post there
frequently.
(I should say that Dorsch has apparently removed a lot of his own posts from
the Google archive. None of his own posts to rgcp from late 2001, when he
was involved in long exchanges with Sloan over the Bachler-Smith business,
are in the archive. Sam's memory has slipped when he says that Dorsch
hasn't posted here since last June.)
Other corroborative evidence: Dorsch of course is an AOL user also. The
timing of Silversneak's bursts of posts seems PST-ish to me (I'm not
prepared to swear to this though). And Dorsch -also- argued with Parr over
the drug testing issue. There aren't so many people who hate the red forces
that much but don't so much mind FIDE's drug policies. Usually if they hate
Schultz-Goichberg-McCrary-Sloan-Chesspride they also hate everything about
FIDE.
I should say that I also gave a lot of attention to trying to figure out if
the AOL message IDs and machine would give any information about what part
of the country he is in, and I concluded that as far as I can tell all AOL
users use the same machines. This wasn't always the case, but it seems to
be true since last August.
BTW I didn't respond to Sam's invitation to mail my thoughts to him. He
came up with it himself, or without direct aid from me, anyway.
p>
Timothy Hanke
heard from Dorsch for a long time and Silversneak is filled with bitter
anger and vituperation just like Dorsch. Also, like Dorsch, Silversneak is
not without a certain coarse and brutal wit.
I wondered about this possible connection even before George John posted his
detailed message that listed about 10 things Silversneak and Dorsch seem to
have in common. Surely Silversneak is Dorsch's identical twin if he is not
actually Dorsch.
However, Silversneak is a worse speller and grammarian than Dorsch. Dorsch
is not completely literate but he was a more accurate writer than
Silversneak. If Dorsch is Silversneak, he is dumbing down his English
intentionally. Of course one would expect some sort of disguise along these
lines.
If Silversneak really is Dorsch, and Dorsch really does think FIDE's
drug-testing policies are OK and not a threat to the liberties of
chessplayers, then I would say Dorsch is truly washed up in USCF politics if
word gets out. Up to this point I might have thought Dorsch could possibly
mount a comeback, but his views on the drug-testing issue would probably
sink him for good.
Tim Hanke
--
Newburyport, Mass.
http://www.newburyportchessclub.net
"Petrel" <pet...@enteract.com> wrote in message
news:a43j79$o1e$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
The Creep
Whoa! What a brilliant deduction, Sherlock! Let's look at it:
1. "Tom Dorsch and Edward Spring are both AOL users."
And so are about 20,000,000 other people.
2. "No person other than Dorsch shares the views of Edward Spring."
A broad generalization. This implies that Tom Dorsch is a lone voice
in the wilderness, crying out to the unenlightened masses. Nothing
could be further from the truth. Many people share some or all of Tom
Dorsch's views.
It is possible you could be right. But it is more likely that you are
wrong.
I hear the kid crying, Sam. Go get a job so you can feed her.
StanB
"Petrel" <pet...@enteract.com> wrote in message news:a43j79
> Booz responded to that, and Dorsch responded again under his own handle.
> THAT silversneak was Dorsch with 100% certainty.
>
> Booz may remember this.
I do.
> This is why I sort of thought that when Sloan said
> he thought Silversneak was from the 'New York area', and Booz responded
'or
> Northern New Jersey', this might have been an arch reference: Not
northern
> New Jersey, but Northern California.
Nah, I didn't and still don't think it was lardass.
> Booz has denied this since, but maybe
> he knew it SUBCONSCIOUSLY. :-)
When I can manage that I move to Las Vegas.
StanB
RSHaas
====================
There has been an Edward Winter so why not an Edward Spring, Edward Summer, and
an Edward Fall(guy)?
RSHaas
I have occasionally posted here with an alternate AOL screen name... PhilDPage,
but rarely write enough to fill the page and no one is ever interested in my
posts anyway.
RSHaas
I have a cat named Fa Paux... because it has fo' paws. I had a pet water
moccasin named Hobo but I had to get rid of it. Hobo was getting a little too
interested in Fa Paux.
Bruce Draney
So you're saying that Dorsch hates George John more than he hates you
or Goichberg? Why would he need to disguise his identity by posting
filthy, profane ridden posts to George? Also, he sent a profane and
filthy post in response to me, and certainly I don't think Tom would do
that to me even to hide an identity. He might just ignore me, but it
would surprise me to find out that he would write a diatribe against me
personally even to hide a false identity. He could very easily attack
you but not attack Goichberg if he was merely trying to hide his
identity and yet he hasn't attacked either of you, nor has he attacked
Don Schultz or even the major problems that were endlessly debated by
him and others over the past six years.
Certainly Tom dislikes a number of people, but the three he hates the
most have not been attacked at all. I spoke with him this past week and
he claims that he has not been posting to RGCP. He told me that he
believes someone is using his identity to post inflammatory stuff. He
may not be telling me the truth, but I still would like more proof than
just a single dejapost from Silversneak which certainly looked like it
was a Dorsch pseudonym.
I am reserving judgment presently as to this particular Silversneak's
identity. Why rip George if you're Tom? Tom is completely out of
national politics. What is to be gained by attacking George? George
isn't running. George hasn't even said anything really controversial
lately that I believe Tom would care enough about to make up an identity
and post profane laden remarks about. He didn't go to Framingham, he
isn't going to Parsippany and he's not going to Vegas I don't think.
He's staying away from national politics he told me and concentrating
only on chess in Northern California. People can and will believe as
they wish, I'm only stating it for the record, what I know about it.
You can't prove the negative of course, so one cannot prove that he's
not Silversneak.
Best Regards,
Bruce
StanB
"Bruce Draney" <bdr...@novia.net> wrote in message
> He might just ignore me,
Why not? Everybody else does.
StanB
li...@orc.net
>> Tom Dorsch and Edward Spring are both AOL users.
> Wow. That really narrows it down Sam. Great detective work.
Still it is relevant. How many AOL looosers even know that Usenet exists,
given that they spend most of their lives in Chat rooms and WWW?
Petrel
"Silversneak/Spring is
either Tom Dorsch, or someone deliberately framing him, or
someone in his household. "
Bruce Draney wrote in message <3C65BD...@novia.net>...
> Certainly Tom dislikes a number of people, but the three he hates the
>most have not been attacked at all. I spoke with him this past week and
>he claims that he has not been posting to RGCP. He told me that he
>believes someone is using his identity to post inflammatory stuff. He
>may not be telling me the truth, but I still would like more proof than
>just a single dejapost from Silversneak which certainly looked like it
>was a Dorsch pseudonym.
>
> I am reserving judgment presently as to this particular Silversneak's
>identity.
Silversneak writes,
>Maybe Im someone who grew up in the northeast
>and moved to New York and when I wanted to make some comments about chess I
>picked a name from Googel just
>like James (my middle name is Bullshit!) BShearer did.
>I liked silversneak and Dr. Grau and Mike Hammer of all
>the names.
Stan Booz remembers the exchange from last December but doesn't think the
current Silversneak is Dorsch.
OK, where does that leave us?
Silversneak is either DORSCH -
Pro:
(a) it's the simplest thing to assume that the AOLer who wrote as
Silversneak in December, 2000 (which was certainly Dorsch) is the same AOLer
who is doing it now
(b) hates George John, doesn't oppose drug testing, doesn't flame Redman
Con:
(a) Silversneak 2002 is stupid, misspells words, can't punctuate, and sounds
like a kid.
(b) Doesn't flame Goichberg or Schultz
(c) Why wouldn't Dorsch flame under his own name? He never had any qualms
about it before
(d) Bruce says that Dorsch says it isn't him. I believe Bruce.
(e) Dorsch knows how to remove posts from the Google archive, because he has
removed his own posts from late 2001. If it were him, why wouldn't he have
removed the earlier Silversneak posts when people began speculating about
his identity?
or SOMEONE DELIBERATELY FRAMING HIM (impersonating him) -
Pro:
(a) Silversneak says that himself for what that's worth.
(b) See 'con' arguments above.
Con:
(a) If it's deliberately intended to frame Dorsch as a troll, why does
Silversneak now deny being Dorsch?
(b) If it's deliberately intended to frame Dorsch as a troll, why aren't the
posts even more trollish than they are?
[BUT: these objections don't apply to Silversneak's current story, which is,
in essence, "I decided to impersonate Dorsch at random."]
(c) If Dorsch was selected at random to be impersonated, you have to believe
that Silversneak is a vicious little creep.
[BUT: what's the problem with that?]
or SOMEONE IN DORSCH'S HOUSEHOLD [or who has visited Dorsch or whom Dorsch
has visited]
Pro:
(a) Possibly the Silversneak handle really belonged, in 2000, to someone
else with an AOL account with access to the same computer that Dorsch was
using at the time. This would account for why Dorsch switched handles in
the middle of the exchange with Booz: he did it by accident. I've done
that - I've posted with my wife's account by mistake.
Con:
(a) I don't know if there is such a person (not just with an account, but
also with a propensity to troll in rgcp).
(b) It doesn't jibe with what Silversneak says.
(c) The fact that there may have been a 3rd-party Silversneak in 2000
doesn't make it any less likely that someone is impersonating that handle
now.
My own thoughts now: I don't know, but the idea that Silversneak 2002
deliberately swiped Dorsch's handle more or less at random somehow seems the
most plausible at the moment to me. Yesterday I think I would have thought
this to be quite improbable. Today, it seems not very unlikely.
This can perhaps be settled by Dorsch (or the 3rd party owner of the
Silversneak account, if there is one). Deliberate impersonation is
certainly a violation of the AOL agreement, and ab...@aol.com should be
approached. (If the 2000 Silversneak account was allowed to lapse it might
be more tricky.)
p>
Bill Smythe
> .... Also, he sent a profane and
> filthy post in response to me, and certainly I don't think Tom would do
One possibility is that Dorsch's mental state has changed considerably since
the days of yore.
Still another possibility is that the original Silversneak was Dorsch, but
the Silversneak we have seen lately is somebody else. This would be a
clever way to make almost EVERYBODY look bad, which seems to be
Silversneak's current aim.
Bill Smythe
George John
"Bill Smythe" <chic...@enteract.com> wrote in message
news:a44im4$g9d$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> "Bruce Draney" wrote:
> Still another possibility is that the original Silversneak was Dorsch, but
> the Silversneak we have seen lately is somebody else. This would be a
> clever way to make almost EVERYBODY look bad, which seems to be
> Silversneak's current aim.
Bill,
You have made a very good point. I thought about this a few hours ago.
Does anyone know if AOL recycles ID's? If they do, Tom Dorsch may have had
Silverstreak, let it expire, and someone else picked it with the knowledge
that it was his, or at least with at least a strong suspicion that it was
previously held by him.
George
Wickdeer3
>Does anyone know if AOL recycles ID's?
I know they do.
A friend of mine quit AOL, and a year later someone else was using his old
screanname.
Wick Deer
George John
"Wickdeer3" <wick...@cs.comKillSpam> wrote in message
news:20020209220809...@mb-dh.news.cs.com...
> A friend of mine quit AOL, and a year later someone else was using his old
> screanname.
Wick,
Thanks for the information. I'm going to assume there is no easy way to
determine how long an account has been held. That would of course be
interesting to know. My current guess is that Tom Dorsch or an imitator had
this account in December, 2000, but based on what Bruce and now you have
told me, someone else now has this account. The fact that some of the
targets of the old and new Silverstreak are the same may or may not be a
coincidence.
Regardless, I apologize to Tom Dorsch for suggesting the new Silverstreak
may be he.
George
Bruce Draney
Obviously not. Nice comeback though Stan.
Best Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Draney
First Tom stayed completely out of the election where George was a
leading candidate this past summer. Tom was furious with Redman for
serious policy blunders and Redman's unwillingness to alter or change
them. I don't know that Tom has strong feelings one way or another
about drug testing. I know he has argued with Parr about stuff over the
years, but I certainly do not count Tom as a pro-FIDE fanatic or
particularly pro-drug testing. If anything, Tom views FIDE matters as a
distraction to our own major problems. If he cared about drug testing,
he never proposed any motions about it this past year, and he never
issued any strong pro-drug testing statements that I can recollect.
This Silversneak doesn't necessarily state support for drug testing,
he/she merely believes that Goichberg will never agree to it. Although
Parr seems to believe that stating it will not happen equates with
supporting it, I do not necessarily read things that way.
If Tom wished to trash George under a false identity, why wouldn't he
do it in a year when George was running and might make it onto the
Board? Why would he wait until 2002 when George has pretty much bowed
out of running? From Tom's perspective, what would be the purpose or
value in undermining George's candidacy, assuming George was running,
other than to help the current Board majority to continue to hold
complete power? Also, why would he not rip Redman? Redman was the one
doing the policies, not George John. It's always possible that he's
doing all of these un-Dorsch like things in order to convince people
that he's not Dorsch when he really is. Another nastier possiblity has
occurred to me, and in this case I hope I'm wrong. Suppose that this
person is afraid George is considering running and is deliberately
trying to get him to back off from running by baiting him with these
posts. This person could be considering a candidacy under his/her real
name and might wish to see George admit on RGCP that he definitely isn't
running. Then if George does decide to run, it will make it look like
George doesn't keep his word or his promises.
Has anyone tried to send an e-mail to Silversneak and see if it
bounces? Suppose the person merely grabbed a name and put it in front
of an AOL.COM?
>
> Con:
> (a) Silversneak 2002 is stupid, misspells words, can't punctuate, and sounds
> like a kid.
> (b) Doesn't flame Goichberg or Schultz
> (c) Why wouldn't Dorsch flame under his own name? He never had any qualms
> about it before
> (d) Bruce says that Dorsch says it isn't him. I believe Bruce.
I'm not absolutely sure. But I am somewhat unconvinced, as I said
earlier, based upon what I've been told by Tom and also because there
doesn't seem to be any particular rhyme or reason for Tom to out of the
blue just start anonymously attacking George, when he has told me he's
through with national politics and hasn't been paying attention to this
forum for months.
> (e) Dorsch knows how to remove posts from the Google archive, because he has
> removed his own posts from late 2001. If it were him, why wouldn't he have
> removed the earlier Silversneak posts when people began speculating about
> his identity?
>
> or SOMEONE DELIBERATELY FRAMING HIM (impersonating him) -
>
> Pro:
> (a) Silversneak says that himself for what that's worth.
> (b) See 'con' arguments above.
>
> Con:
> (a) If it's deliberately intended to frame Dorsch as a troll, why does
> Silversneak now deny being Dorsch?
> (b) If it's deliberately intended to frame Dorsch as a troll, why aren't the
> posts even more trollish than they are?
> [BUT: these objections don't apply to Silversneak's current story, which is,
> in essence, "I decided to impersonate Dorsch at random."]
> (c) If Dorsch was selected at random to be impersonated, you have to believe
> that Silversneak is a vicious little creep.
> [BUT: what's the problem with that?]
>
> or SOMEONE IN DORSCH'S HOUSEHOLD [or who has visited Dorsch or whom Dorsch
> has visited]
Unless you're suggesting it's his wife, I don't think there is anyone
else in his household. I seriously doubt his wife would have the time
or inclination to do it. I don't think his wife even knows George John,
and even if she did, I doubt she would waste the time to send profanity
laced posts to him.
>
> Pro:
> (a) Possibly the Silversneak handle really belonged, in 2000, to someone
> else with an AOL account with access to the same computer that Dorsch was
> using at the time. This would account for why Dorsch switched handles in
> the middle of the exchange with Booz: he did it by accident. I've done
> that - I've posted with my wife's account by mistake.
This is an interesting theory. I'm not sure yet that I buy it, but
it's interesting.
>
> Con:
> (a) I don't know if there is such a person (not just with an account, but
> also with a propensity to troll in rgcp).
> (b) It doesn't jibe with what Silversneak says.
> (c) The fact that there may have been a 3rd-party Silversneak in 2000
> doesn't make it any less likely that someone is impersonating that handle
> now.
>
> My own thoughts now: I don't know, but the idea that Silversneak 2002
> deliberately swiped Dorsch's handle more or less at random somehow seems the
> most plausible at the moment to me. Yesterday I think I would have thought
> this to be quite improbable. Today, it seems not very unlikely.
>
> This can perhaps be settled by Dorsch (or the 3rd party owner of the
> Silversneak account, if there is one). Deliberate impersonation is
> certainly a violation of the AOL agreement, and ab...@aol.com should be
> approached. (If the 2000 Silversneak account was allowed to lapse it might
> be more tricky.)
If it is Tom, I can't figure out why he'd bother. He's never mentioned
to me that he's particularly angry or upset at George John. If he was
angry at George, why wouldn't he have attacked George anonymously during
last year's campaign when George was the favorite of the Blacks to gain
a seat on the Board? Particularly if George isn't running for office,
I cannot figure out what his motivations would be to attack him.
Best Regards,
Bruce
>
> p>
Sam Sloan
>What is to be gained by attacking George? George isn't running.
I am not convinced that George is not running. I and many others
believe that George has something up is sleeve. We would like to know
what it is.
>George hasn't even said anything really controversial lately.
George John never says anything really controversial. George only
makes goody-goody statements which everybody will agree with and
realize what a brilliant person he is.
The reason I am against George is exactly that. For example, I often
disagree with Kevin, Liam and Eric Johnson, but at least I know where
they stand. If any of them were to run for office, I would say that if
elected at least we would know what we were getting. With George John,
nobody has any idea what he is really up to and why he wants to badly
to be a high official in the USCF. We would like to know.
Edward Spring, by attacking George John all the time, has raised some
issues which others have been afraid to raise. I actually had a dream
about this a few nights ago.
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
wrote:
>Regardless, I apologize to Tom Dorsch for suggesting the new Silverstreak
>may be he.
>
>George
Why do you back out like this? Have you no balls?
Joe Mama
> Another nastier possiblity has
> occurred to me, and in this case I hope I'm wrong. Suppose that this
> person is afraid George is considering running and is deliberately
> trying to get him to back off from running by baiting him with these
> posts. This person could be considering a candidacy under his/her real
> name and might wish to see George admit on RGCP that he definitely isn't
> running. Then if George does decide to run, it will make it look like
> George doesn't keep his word or his promises.
What do we know about this latest 'mouse?
Let's see, lives in New York, or says he does.
Doesn't attack Goichberg.
Doesn't attack Sloan.
Attacks George John.
States his open support of Sloan in the election.
Uses frequent profanity in posts.
If not Dorsch, deliberately or accidently used former Dorsch name.
It's elementary dear Watson, all of the clues point to an ex-New York
cabdriver and well known perjuror who is also running for political
office in New York state.
What gave it away was the fact that there are very few people who
attack George John on RGCP. Sam in fact is the only one that I've ever
seen attack George John on RGCP.
Why hadn't we thought of it before? Thanks Draney.
Joe
Bill Smythe
> .... during
> last year's campaign when George was the favorite of the Blacks to gain
Hold on just a cotton-pickin' minute. Depends what you mean by "favorite".
If you mean he was the candidate the Blacks most wanted to elect, I'd say
that's false. Some Blacks in this area supported only three candidates, and
he wasn't one of them.
If, by "favorite", you mean most likely to win, then probably yes. He also
got a lot of votes from Red-leaners, such as myself.
Bill Smythe
Sam Sloan
> States his open support of Sloan in the election.
> Uses frequent profanity in posts.
Not true. Edward Spring has never expressed support for me.
Also, I have never used profanity in my posts.
Sam Sloan
Bruce Draney
By "favorite" I mean the one with the best chance to win. As it turns
out he got the 5th most votes, an indication that he was perceived as a
reasonable candidate by those people who were not voting a straight Red
slate. This must have most likely included most so-called "Black" slate
voters. I never meant to suggest that he got the support of all of
those supporting other "Black" candidates. In fact Bill you have hit
upon the primary reason that the Reds won and the Blacks were thoroughly
trounced. Most of the so called Black slate candidates were opposed to
the most controversial policies of the Redman administration. In many
ways, George's endorsement by Redman during the campaign may have
actually cost him votes rather than helped him.
Best Regards,
Bruce
Sam Sloan
> In many
>ways, George's endorsement by Redman during the campaign may have
>actually cost him votes rather than helped him.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bruce
One thing to be admired and respected about Bruce Draney was that Tim
Redman offered him a bribe of a free all expenses paid trip to the
USCF Headquarters in New Windsor, New York.
Bruce declined the bribe offer, and for that reason the Redman Gang
chose George John as their fourth candidate, instead of Bruce.
I believe that George John did receive at least one free all expenses
paid trip to New Windsor while Tim Redman was on the Board. George
John accepted this.
Sam Sloan
Rev. Dr. Calvin Abu Hindoo Qusz, Jr
>> last year's campaign when George was the favorite of the Blacks to gain
>> a seat on the Board? ....
>
>Hold on just a cotton-pickin' minute. Depends what you mean by "favorite".
>If you mean he was the candidate the Blacks most wanted to elect, I'd say
>that's false. Some Blacks in this area supported only three candidates, and
>he wasn't one of them.
We gonna elect Jesse Jackson to be our USCF President and then we gonna
kick honkey chess player ass so no whitey will be allowed to play chess
only African Americans will be allowed to play chess. Fuck White Chess!
--
Vote Morris Ahsley for FIDE President-for-life
Rev. Dr. Calvin Abu Hindoo Qusz, Jr
>those supporting other "Black" candidates. In fact Bill you have hit
>upon the primary reason that the Reds won and the Blacks were thoroughly
>trounced. Most of the so called Black slate candidates were opposed to
The primary reason is always white racism. Red Man rulez!
Slavery Reparations for African American Chess Players Now!
George John
> "Bruce Draney" wrote:
Bill,
> Hold on just a cotton-pickin' minute. Depends what you mean by
"favorite".
> If you mean he was the candidate the Blacks most wanted to elect, I'd say
> that's false. Some Blacks in this area supported only three candidates,
and
> he wasn't one of them.
You are correct. My strong, open support of OMOV was the likely reason.
I think some of the "black party" leaders may have failed to adequately
understand that, when I said I was an independent, I meant it. A review of
deja will show I sharply disagreed with some of the polities of the "black
party", including "fiddle/activity points", and the excessive TLA rate
increases and how they were implemented, at the time they were adopted and
not just part of some campaign rhetoric designed to appeal to the Electors.
> If, by "favorite", you mean most likely to win, then probably yes. He
also
> got a lot of votes from Red-leaners, such as myself.
I appreciated very much the support you and others gave me. This was one of
the major positives of my unsuccesful run.
My shift to an independent was mostly complete by the end of the St. Paul
meeting, but I think the inertia of my "black party" leanings from 1999 was
simply too great. I think many Electors remained or were easy to convince
that I had strong ties to the "black party" and was not a true independent.
The "black party" had some very unpopular policies and anyone tied to them
was likely going to lose.
I never pulled my endorsement letter from the 1999 campaign from my USCF
Politics Website. Not doing so was politically illadvised, but very
intentional. I am a neutral Webmaster over that site. My pulling only my
endorsement letter and not all others would have been wrong. And, I think
it's important for all those materials from the 1999 election to remain
there as long as possible. Perhaps some day I should review those
endorsements and post my current thoughts in more detail, but then again
maybe not. I'd prefer to look forward and not backwards. And, I'd prefer
to look at policies and not people.
Some of my endorsements were a mistake in 1999. I have freely and openly
acknowledged to anyone who has asked. I didn't make that part of my
campaign because I didn't consider it appropriate. I eventually became
aware of the selective "hit letter" that was mailed with the ballots that
referred to my 1999 endorsements, but it came late in the game. And, I
didn't think it appropriate to send out a postcard or letter that
specifically addressed that.
For the record, I am opposed to "hit letters" letters in general, especially
those mailed with the ballots and without the candidate being "hit" being
informed. Both "parties" used such tactics and have for some time. It's
part of the reason why national chess politics has such a poor reputation
and why some people (at least in part) won't consider running. A plus of
OMOV may be that this tactic will become much more expensive, perhaps
unaffordably so, and more open to a backlash among the members.
George
George John
"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:3c66b664...@ca.news.verio.net...
This was the trip I made in November, 1999 along with Gary Prince and
Richard Koepcke to evaluate the information technology status, including
Y2K, of the New Windsor office. Recall, among other things, that although
Y2K testing (not just the software upgrade) was promised by ED Cavallo (in
Reno) to be complete by October 1st, that deadline had passed and no testing
had been done. Given some of the software in use was written in the 70's
and 80's, a complete failure of the USCF software, including a complete
shut-down of the membership and rating system, was a real concern.
Bob Smith was President at the time. The USCF provided food and the hotel
room. I would have also been reimbursed for my airfare, but I did not ask
to be reimbursed and this became in essence a $400 plus donation to the
organization. I put in a very long day Saturday, a more normal day Sunday,
and later put together a lengthy written report for the Board. This was all
done as an unpaid volunteer.
Unpaid volunteers are often reimbursed for their expenses. There is nothing
unusual about his. Computing professionals do not come inexpensively, and I
think the USCF office was in urgent need of the review and received good
value from the money it spent.
Richard and I were co-chairs of the Internet/Computer Committee at the time.
I had some familiarity with the office upgrade from my attempt to review
Cavallo's performance with regard to the IT upgrade. Richard and I had
face-to-face meetings with the new Board and Mike Cavallo while were in
Reno. Gary Prince was a past USCF Webmaster and was within driving range of
the office. I think Richard and Gary were very good choices and it was a
pleasure working with them on this review. Since the USCF money and staff
time was involved, the Board asked me to submit my resume to them which I
did. This was appropriate.
I think volunteer or even paid professional reviews, as budget permits,
conducted by outside, independent review teams is important. Many
successful not-for-profits have professional reviews conducted on a routine
basis.
George
li...@orc.net
> One thing to be admired and respected about Bruce Draney was that Tim
> Redman offered him a bribe of a free all expenses paid trip to the
> USCF Headquarters in New Windsor, New York.
> Bruce declined the bribe offer, and for that reason the Redman Gang
> chose George John as their fourth candidate, instead of Bruce.
Did that include a hotel room, or was Bruce supposed to sleep in Eric's
former encrusted office?
li...@orc.net
> On 9 Feb 2002 18:29:04 -0600, Bruce Draney <bdr...@novia.net> wrote:
> George John never says anything really controversial. George only
> makes goody-goody statements which everybody will agree with and
> realize what a brilliant person he is.
They're only neutral to a person of moderate IQ.
Although I will admit that he crafts his individual sentences carefully,
so that no one attempting to quote one of them as an example of a position
that George really does hold will be able to do so successfully.
George John
> On 9 Feb 2002 18:29:04 -0600, Bruce Draney <bdr...@novia.net> wrote:
> I am not convinced that George is not running. I and many others
> believe that George has something up is sleeve.
> We would like to know
> what it is.
WYSIWYG.
Please let me know how many more times I will need to state that I do not
intend to run and have little interest in running. I need to decide if it
worth my time to write a computer program to track this issue in rgcp and
write automatic responses. -big grin-
> but at least I know where
> they stand. If any of them were to run for office, I would say that if
> elected at least we would know what we were getting. With George John,
> nobody has any idea what he is really up to and why he wants to badly
> to be a high official in the USCF. We would like to know.
I ran a campaign. I answered a good deal of questions by private e-mail. I
posted (they can be found via http://www.georgejohn.com) and mailed two
campaign letters and a postcard. I have posted a good deal on rgcp and
these posts can be found via www.deja.com.
After reading these materials, if anyone remains confused about why I ran,
what I favored and didn't favor, and what future I wanted for the USCF and
its members, they are welcomed to ask me specific questions to help gain
clarity.
George
Rev. Dr. Calvin Abu Hindoo Qusz, Jr
>Did that include a hotel room, or was Bruce supposed to sleep in Eric's
>former encrusted office?
Did it also include a blow job from Eric?
(He's a virtuoso cocksucker and likes to swallow.)
--
Vote Morris Ahsley for FIDE President-for-life
USCF must pay Slavery Reparations to African American Chess Players Now!
StanB
"George John" <geo...@neosoft.com> wrote in message
> After reading these materials, if anyone remains confused about why I ran,
> what I favored and didn't favor, and what future I wanted for the USCF and
> its members, they are welcomed to ask me specific questions to help gain
> clarity.
If elected will you serve?
StanB
George John
<li...@orc.net> wrote in message news:W3A98.432$NR6....@news.shore.net...
Let's try a test.
I am 100% opposed to raising the scholastics and youth dues to $40.00 (the
regular member rate).
What, if anything, do you find unclear about that position?
Now for some general comments.
For some issues are black and white and simple, and for others many shades
of gray and complex. For some the search for truth is an easy, cut and
dried process; for others it's a struggle with a progression of (hopefully)
increasingly better approximations toward the truth. Some seem to show
little regard for the truth while others value it greatly.
George
StanB
"George John" <geo...@neosoft.com> wrote in message
> > Although I will admit that he crafts his individual sentences carefully,
> > so that no one attempting to quote one of them as an example of a
position
> > that George really does hold will be able to do so successfully.
>
> Let's try a test.
>
> I am 100% opposed to raising the scholastics and youth dues to $40.00 (the
> regular member rate).
Shilly-shallying. You could favor 45 or 13.
StanB
StanB
"StanB" <stan...@homeNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
StanB
StanB
"StanB" <stan...@homeNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
StanB
"StanB" <stan...@homeNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
George John
"StanB" <stan...@homeNOSPAM.com> wrote in message
You're right, I have never answer that question. -grin-
Now what did Lyndon Johnson say about this? -big grin-
George
Sam Sloan
<fuc...@honkey.motherfuckers> wrote:
>The primary reason is always white racism. Red Man rulez!
I am fairly certain that this person does play chess.
How else would he know that Redman rules?
George John
"StanB" <stan...@comcast.net NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:SgB98.36646$X64.12...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com...
Stan,
You are a little testy today, aren't you? -big grin-
George
Paul Rubin
> One thing to be admired and respected about Bruce Draney was that Tim
> Redman offered him a bribe of a free all expenses paid trip to the
> USCF Headquarters in New Windsor, New York.
>
> Bruce declined the bribe offer, and for that reason the Redman Gang
> chose George John as their fourth candidate, instead of Bruce.
>
> I believe that George John did receive at least one free all expenses
> paid trip to New Windsor while Tim Redman was on the Board. George
> John accepted this.
First prize is a week in New Windsor. Second prize is TWO weeks in
New Windsor.
Rev. Dr. Calvin Abu Hindoo Qusz, Jr
>I am fairly certain that this person does play chess.
Of course I plays chess. I is an African American. We is born knowing
how to play chess. That's why the moment we takes over USCF, every
African American will be given a 2200 rating to compensates us for
past discriminations and honkey racisms.
--
Vote Morris Ahsley for FIDE President-for-life
USCF must pay Slavery Reparations to African American Chess Players Now!
Bill Smythe
> .... In many
> ways, George's endorsement by Redman during the campaign may have
Yes. I remember receiving an endorsement letter from somebody in Texas
other than Tim Redman -- maybe it was Selby Anderson -- in which he strongly
supported George John, but unfortunately couldn't resist throwing in a
paragraph endorsing another "black party" candidate or two. My reaction to
that paragraph was, "oh no, there goes the ball game", and sure enough,
that's what happened.
Bill Smythe
StanB
"George John" <geo...@neosoft.com> wrote in message >
> You are a little testy today, aren't you? -big grin-
If there was ever a question as to my using phony names, it is now answered.
I find it a major pain in the ass just to have my isp change its address.
StanB
George John
> On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 04:12:18 GMT, "George John" <geo...@neosoft.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Regardless, I apologize to Tom Dorsch for suggesting the new Silverstreak
> >may be he.
> >
> >George
>
> Why do you back out like this?
-snip-
Sam,
I don't like making unsubstantiated allegations against someone. If I think
I may have wronged someone, I'm comfortable apologizing to them.
I realize some people are very comfortable making unsubstantiated
allegations based on little or no evidence and will continue making those
allegations regardless how much evidence to the contrary is presented to
them. I'm not one of them.
Tom Dorsch is someone who has previously demonstrated to me considerable
skill at shading and distorting the truth, but I have never known him to
willfully lie. If he says he hasn't been posting, I believe him. At least
for now. So, Tom Dorsch telling Bruce that he hasn't been posting is
sufficient for me, at least until some very strong evidence emerges to the
contrary.
Remember when someone reported on rgcp my son was involved in a cheating
scandal at the 2000 Denker? I considered that to be a very serious
insinuation, one that I knew was absolutely incorrect. That same poster
later said that he did not think or intend to imply that my son was aware of
or a contributor to that alleged violation. I took that poster at his word
and let the matter drop. Do you see any parallels here?
George
Bill Smythe
> .... I am not convinced that George is not running. I and many others
> believe that George has something up is sleeve ....
Has it ever occurred to you, Sam, that perhaps George does not want to run,
but could conceivably be arm-twisted into it if conditions are right? So
why should he slam the door on the possibility?
> .... George John never says anything really controversial ....
Wonks are like that. They make intelligent points that are impossible to
argue with because they are so sensible, and prefer to discuss ideas rather
than people.
> .... I often
> disagree with [ XXXX ] , but at least I know where
> they stand .... With George John,
> nobody has any idea what he is really up to ....
Maybe that's because he's not "up to" anything. Maybe he just wants what's
best for USCF.
I may not be able to descern whether he'll be a red-leaner or a
black-leaner, but I really don't care. In fact, that's one advantage of
George John -- he calls 'em as he sees 'em, and won't feel obligated to go
along with bad ideas just because they originated with one alliance or the
other.
Bill Smythe
Sam Sloan
wrote:
>I never pulled my endorsement letter from the 1999 campaign from my USCF
>Politics Website. Not doing so was politically illadvised, but very
>intentional. I am a neutral Webmaster over that site. My pulling only my
>endorsement letter and not all others would have been wrong. And, I think
>it's important for all those materials from the 1999 election to remain
>there as long as possible. Perhaps some day I should review those
>endorsements and post my current thoughts in more detail, but then again
>maybe not. I'd prefer to look forward and not backwards. And, I'd prefer
>to look at policies and not people.
>
>Some of my endorsements were a mistake in 1999. I have freely and openly
>acknowledged to anyone who has asked. I didn't make that part of my
>campaign because I didn't consider it appropriate. I eventually became
>aware of the selective "hit letter" that was mailed with the ballots that
>referred to my 1999 endorsements, but it came late in the game.
What is the address of that endorsement letter? Where can I find it?
In 1999, the Redman Gang was not yet a gang. Nobody knew or even
imagined how bad they would be. For example, Bill Goichberg supported
Doris Barry for election. Many people supported Jim Pechac. Most had
forgotten how bad Tim Redman was when he was last president and he had
widespread support.
Nobody will hold it against George John or anybody else if he
supported these candidates for election in 1999.
I am fairly certain that none of them will ever be elected to USCF
office again. A more terrible and destructive group cannot be
imagined, but nobody knew that in 1999.
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
wrote:
>After reading these materials, if anyone remains confused about why I ran,
>what I favored and didn't favor, and what future I wanted for the USCF and
>its members, they are welcomed to ask me specific questions to help gain
>clarity.
>
>George
Let's try this one:
What was your position on spyware in US Chess Live? Did or did not US
ChessLive have spyware? Did or did not you find that spyware to be
objectionable?
You talked out of both sides of your mouth on this issue.
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
Verio has just completely screwed me by tranferring my access provider
to Earthlink, and Earthlink has blocked the port Verio uses to send
e-mail.
Therefore, for several days I could not send e-mail and I thought that
my e-mail was going out when it was not.
Is that your problem too?
I am posting this while using AOL as my access provider.
Sam Sloan
George John
> What is the address of that endorsement letter? Where can I find it?
It has been posted to my USCF Politics Website since July 11, 1999.
The URL is http://www.neosoft.com/~george/chess/USCF/politics/gj1.html
-snip-
George
Bill Smythe
> .... What was your position on spyware in US Chess Live? ....
> .... You talked out of both sides of your mouth on this issue ....
I believe the software itself spoke out of both sides of its mouth. First
USCL had it, then it had a less intrusive version, now it has none. It's
easy for a reasonable person's position on such an issue to shift over time.
Bill Smythe
Bill Smythe
> .... For example, Bill Goichberg supported
> Doris Barry for election ....
I believe he also supported Jim Eade, before that. And Tim Redman, two or
three decades ago.
> .... Nobody will hold it against George John or anybody else if he
> supported these candidates for election in 1999 ....
Aha! Sam turns over a (slightly) new leaf. It is a good idea not to hold
grudges forever.
Bill Smythe
Don C. Aldrich
is no shrinking violet, and certainly was never shy about voicing his
views.
I just don't see it.
==Dondo
li...@orc.net
> This was the trip I made in November, 1999 along with Gary Prince and
> Richard Koepcke to evaluate the information technology status, including
> Y2K, of the New Windsor office. Recall, among other things, that although
> Y2K testing (not just the software upgrade) was promised by ED Cavallo (in
> Reno) to be complete by October 1st, that deadline had passed and no testing
> had been done. Given some of the software in use was written in the 70's
> and 80's, a complete failure of the USCF software, including a complete
> shut-down of the membership and rating system, was a real concern.
And I'm sure that if there had been Y2K problems in the software, you'd
have been there in plenty of time, in November 1999, to fix things.
> Bob Smith was President at the time. The USCF provided food and the hotel
> room. I would have also been reimbursed for my airfare, but I did not ask
> to be reimbursed and this became in essence a $400 plus donation to the
> organization. I put in a very long day Saturday, a more normal day Sunday,
> and later put together a lengthy written report for the Board. This was all
> done as an unpaid volunteer.
> Unpaid volunteers are often reimbursed for their expenses. There is nothing
> unusual about his. Computing professionals do not come inexpensively, and I
> think the USCF office was in urgent need of the review and received good
> value from the money it spent.
> Richard and I were co-chairs of the Internet/Computer Committee at the time.
> I had some familiarity with the office upgrade from my attempt to review
> Cavallo's performance with regard to the IT upgrade. Richard and I had
> face-to-face meetings with the new Board and Mike Cavallo while were in
> Reno. Gary Prince was a past USCF Webmaster and was within driving range of
> the office. I think Richard and Gary were very good choices and it was a
> pleasure working with them on this review. Since the USCF money and staff
> time was involved, the Board asked me to submit my resume to them which I
> did. This was appropriate.
> I think volunteer or even paid professional reviews, as budget permits,
> conducted by outside, independent review teams is important. Many
> successful not-for-profits have professional reviews conducted on a routine
> basis.
> George
George John
> Let's try this one:
>
> What was your position on spyware in US Chess Live? Did or did not US
> ChessLive have spyware? Did or did not you find that spyware to be
> objectionable?
>
> You talked out of both sides of your mouth on this issue.
It wasn't a black and white issue for me and still isn't. I discussed this
topic extensively on rgcp. Here is one of my posts, dated April 3rd, 2001.
********* Quote:
"EZoto" <ez...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:3AC8F1F6...@bellatlantic.net...
> I would like to ask you a question. Some posts have stated that you are
> a principal defender of spyware ( you probably know who stated it so
> don't get your feathers ruffled ) and I would like to hear it from your
> own posts. Is this true?
Hi,
Almost nothing gets my feathers ruffled anymore. -grin-
Perhaps my favorite Website on this and other issues of security is
http://www.grc.com. I learned about this site as a result of a post made in
July or August, 2000 that concerned the USCL client's use of the Radiate
technology.
A definition on this site of what spyware is follows. I quote:
"Spyware is ANY SOFTWARE which employs a user's Internet connection in the
background (the so-called "backchannel") without their knowledge or explicit
permission.
Silent background use of an Internet "backchannel" connection MUST BE
PRECEDED by a complete and truthful disclosure of proposed backchannel
usage, followed by the receipt of explicit, informed, consent for such use.
ANY SOFTWARE communicating across the Internet absent these elements is
guilty of information theft and is properly and rightfully termed: Spyware."
Unquote.
I think this is a reasonable definition. I strongly oppose the USCF's
endorsement or use of any software bundle that reasonably fits this
definition.
I will add, however, part of the controversy may be due to what constitutes
"complete and truthful disclosure" and "receipt of explicit, informed,
consent". That's an area that's open to reasonable debate. I was
*personally* comfortable with the Conducent privacy policy and the level of
disclosure provided by the GamesParlor software. I recognize and understand
that other people do not share my feeling of comfort.
The above is my personal, private consumer opinion.
Now I'll speak as an Executive Board candidate. The USCF must provide
excellent customer service and provide products and services its members
have faith in. If its customers (members) have concerns and questions, they
must be addressed promptly and adequately. If some of our members think
the USCL client is "spyware", the USCF staff has a responsibility to work
with its partners and/or 3rd party consultants to come up with an adequate
response and/or fix the problem. The Board should step in only if the
office isn't getting the job done, perhaps by restructuring priorities.
I hope this helped answer your question.
George
Unquote **************
The Board asked the Internet Committee to comment on this subject. As
chair, I created a subcommittee devoted to USChessLive, chaired by Myron
Lieberman. Myron has done an outstanding job with this subcommittee and,
with the help of his subcommittee, prepared some excellent reports on this
topic.
See http://www.neosoft.com/~george/chess/USCF/Computer/USCL1.htm
http://www.neosoft.com/~george/chess/USCF/Computer/USCL2.htm
http://www.neosoft.com/~george/chess/USCF/Computer/USCL3.htm
I'll briefly and informally summarize some of what happened.
While a USCL client beta tester, based on what I read on www.grc.com in
July/August, 2000, Radiate software worried me enough that I completely
removed the USCL client from my and my son's system and privately informed
the developer and the other members of my testing team that I would not
continue using a USCL client that had Radiate technology. I was mostly
concerned about the potential back door hole it opened on the system that
could allow a hacker to enter the system. Fortunately, the vendor and the
USCF responded quickly to this problem and removed the Radiate software from
the client.
Like Radiate, Conducent was added to the USCL client without the knowledge
of either me or the Internet/Computer Committee. And as before, I learned
about this concern on rgcp. I was initially alarmed that we might have
another Radiate on our hands and asked two experts about Conducent.
Although both were concerned about Radiate, neither were concerned about
Conducent. I did a search on the Web for any *credible* information that
documented actual problems with Conducent. Given the use of the technology
in over 500 products deployed on over eight million systems, I expected if
there were a problem, I would find something. I found nothing. Although
www.grc.com had Conducent listed as "spyware", it didn't document any of the
problems that alarmed me about Radiate. I let the matter mostly drop until
someone made the following claim:
"US CHESSLIVE software is infected with spyware. It installs
spyware into your system, enabling the operators to read your entire
hard drive, including your credit card numbers, your bank account
passwords and the like."
IMO, this was a very strong allegation to make and needed to be supported
with some credible evidence. To the best of my knowledge no credible
evidence has ever been ever offered. Eventually, Conducent was removed from
the client by the vendor for financial reasons and not due to security
concerns.
My last attempt at installing the USCL client in clean VMWare/Windows
session generated no "spyware" issues when tested with the lavasoft product.
What lessons were learned? One I already knew. The USCF should avoid the
software business. This is due to the lack of in-house IT expertise, Boards
that routinely lack IT expertise, and a failure of both to adequate utilize
professional and volunteer expertise on a routine, systematic basis. The
second lesson is for the Board and office to listen to customer concerns and
deal with them promptly and professionally and raw upon expert resources as
needed. The third is choose your business partners carefully, particularly
if you decide to strike exclusive agreements with them.
It was a significant area of learning for me. Prior to July/August 2000, I
wasn't aware of www.grc.com and the various security issues and concerns
surrounding the Internet and "adware/spyware". All of my professional work
since the mid 90's has been for large corporations with security teams and
my focus has been software development. So, the positive from the "spyware
controversy" was that I became much better informed on the subject. Another
positive is GamesParlor and the USCF improved their privacy policy statement
and procedures.
Was any USCF member actually "harmed" by any of the "adware" (alleged
"spyware") software in the USCL client? I am not aware of any problems and
doubt any will ever emerge.
George
Sam Sloan
wrote:
>Sam,
>
>I don't like making unsubstantiated allegations against someone. If I think
>I may have wronged someone, I'm comfortable apologizing to them.
>
>I realize some people are very comfortable making unsubstantiated
>allegations based on little or no evidence and will continue making those
>allegations regardless how much evidence to the contrary is presented to
>them. I'm not one of them.
>
>Tom Dorsch is someone who has previously demonstrated to me considerable
>skill at shading and distorting the truth, but I have never known him to
>willfully lie. If he says he hasn't been posting, I believe him. At least
>for now. So, Tom Dorsch telling Bruce that he hasn't been posting is
>sufficient for me, at least until some very strong evidence emerges to the
>contrary.
>
>Remember when someone reported on rgcp my son was involved in a cheating
>scandal at the 2000 Denker? I considered that to be a very serious
>insinuation, one that I knew was absolutely incorrect. That same poster
>later said that he did not think or intend to imply that my son was aware of
>or a contributor to that alleged violation. I took that poster at his word
>and let the matter drop. Do you see any parallels here?
>
>George
This is a perfect example of a gross misrepresentation. Here is the
posting by me in its entirely:
> I have just discovered that there may be a minor scandal involving
> David John, the son of George John.
>
> David John won the Denker Tournament of High School Champions on
> tie-breaking points. However, at the October meeting of the Executive
> Board, it was brought out that one of the players who tied for first
> was a Junior in College and had never attended high school.
>
> The transcript is at
> http://www.uschess.org/org/govern/ebtranscript001007.html
It is plainly apparent from the above that I never accused your son or
anybody else of cheating. It was you in fact who made that accusation.
More than that, in a subsequyent posting on this subject, you
identified the 17 year old chess player in question. While you did not
provide his name, you did point to the website where his name could be
obtained.
You did not drop this subject. I did. I did not accuse anybody of
cheating. You made the accusation that a 17-year-old player by name
had cheated.
I considered filing an ethics complaint against you, but decided not
to.
Sam Sloan
George John
<li...@orc.net> wrote in message news:m1F98.442$NR6....@news.shore.net...
> And I'm sure that if there had been Y2K problems in the software, you'd
> have been there in plenty of time, in November 1999, to fix things.
There were Y2K problems and they were remediated in time. Fortunately, the
number of problems proved to be far fewer than what could have been the
case. The USCF lucked out.
The office dropped the ball badly on this one. A Board member was reported
to have asked the ED about this in 1998 (Question to Cavallo from a Board
member, "Are you ready for Y2K", and Cavallo's response was, "I certainly
hope so"), but the Board didn't follow up adequately and demand results. So
what else is new. -grin-
George
Rev. Dr. Calvin Abu Hindoo Qusz, Jr
Why de fuck not???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Spoilsport.
Rev. Dr. Calvin Abu Hindoo Qusz, Jr
>$13 is less than it costs for a lunch and dinner for a parent and kid.
Do USCF accepts food stamps?
Neil Brennen
> On 10 Feb 2002 09:53:05 -0600, Joe Mama <jm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > States his open support of Sloan in the election.
> > Uses frequent profanity in posts.
Sam is on the pitcher's mound. He winds up, here comes the pitch.....
>
> Not true. Edward Spring has never expressed support for me.
On January 27, 2002, silve...@aol.com wrote:
"Your my candidate, butnot my friend!!"
> Also, I have never used profanity in my posts.
> Sam Sloan
On July 22, 2001, Sam Sloan wrote, in response to Neil Brennen:
"I just really wonder who the fuck you think you are.
You call yourself a "chess historian", yet you have only been playing
the game for five years."
Neil Brennen, scoring a double off the slow-pitch softball king of rgcp.
George John
-snip-
> It is plainly apparent from the above that I never accused your son or
> anybody else of cheating. It was you in fact who made that accusation.
I accused my son of cheating? There enough spin on this one to make me
dizzy? -grin- Others construed *your* comments as implying that my son was
somehow involved in a cheating scandal.
> More than that, in a subsequyent posting on this subject, you
> identified the 17 year old chess player in question. While you did not
> provide his name, you did point to the website where his name could be
> obtained.
What a LOL irony, the site is the one you gave above! It's an USCF
Executive Board official transcript.
> You did not drop this subject. I did. I did not accuse anybody of
> cheating.
Right, only a "minor scandal" involving my son and a player who "tied for
first" (my son tied for 1st) who should have been ineligible since he was a
college student. If a person says 1 + 1 = ?, others will fill in the 2.
Help refresh my memory. Why did you post this comment about my son in the
first place? What was your intent?
> You made the accusation that a 17-year-old player by name
> had cheated.
What are you talking about?
>
> I considered filing an ethics complaint against you, but decided not
> to.
And others urged me to file an ethics complaint against you, and I said no.
I'm pleased we both did the right thing.
George
Kaiju
Judge sets bonds for men charged in death of pregnant woman
01/09/02
By GARY McELROY
Staff Reporter
Shannon Ingram, 21 and six-weeks pregnant, died Dec. 5 after being shot in
the chest with a .380-caliber pistol and hit in the head with a shotgun
blast, a police investigator said Tuesday at a bond hearing for the three
men accused of killing her.
Ingram died in her west Mobile apartment after Jeremiah Patterson, Shamaine
Crayton and Delvecchio Alston barged in with guns blazing, according to
Mobile Police Detective Glenn Garside.
Ingram's boyfriend, Alvin Woods, was wounded in the shooting but survived.
Following a 20-minute hearing Tuesday, Presiding Mobile County District
Judge Charles McKnight set bonds of $100,000 for murder, $25,000 for at
tempted murder, $50,000 for first-degree robbery and $50,000 for
first-degree burglary for each of the three men.
In addition, McKnight set a $5,000 bond for Crayton, 25, on a cocaine
possession charge and a $500 bond for Alston, 24, for possession of
marijuana.
McKnight said he would require electronic monitoring for any of the three
who posts bond.
According to Garside, shortly before dawn on Dec. 5, a woman had just
emerged from the victims' Cambridge West Apartments in the 7500 block of
Zeigler Boulevard when three men approached her, ordering her to go back and
knock on the door.
The men took identification from her and told her they would kill her if she
revealed their own identities to authorit ies, Garside said.
When the victims opened the door, the men rushed in and started shooting,
Garside said.
No motive for the attack was mentioned in the hearing Tuesday, but shortly
after the incident, police said it might stem from an earlier altercation at
another west Mobile apartment complex.
Garside told McKnight that several gunshots cut completely through the walls
of the victims' apartment. He said it was "fortunate" the shots were fired
in an easterly direction instead of west and into an adjoining apartment,
where other people could have been hit.
Assistant District Attorney Jo Beth Murphree told McKnight that charges
against the men could be upgraded to capital murder. If so, each could face
the electric chair.
Alston, a huge man with long black dreadlocks erupting from his head, and
Crayton, short and stocky, were captured by police before they could escape
the apartment complex. Patterson, lean and callow, whose 18th birthday fell
just after the shooting, surrendered to police five days after Ingram was
killed.
http://www.al.com/news/mobileregister/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard
.xsl?/base/news/1010571301226961.xml
***TNB***
Errant bullet causes three minor injuries inside Frayser store
By Kevin McKenzie
mcke...@gomemphis.com
Three customers in a Frayser store suffered minor injuries Tuesday when
gunfire erupted outside, sending at least one bullet into the business,
Memphis police said.
The shooting occurred about 3:10 p.m. at Sunny's Grocery and Delicatessen,
4210 Overton Crossing, near Hawkins Mill.
During an altercation outside the store, which faces a small parking lot,
someone fired a gun, said police Maj. G. Crenshaw with the department's
North Precinct.
A bullet pierced a store window and then apparently chipped bullet-resistant
glass that separates the store's cashier area from customers.
Crenshaw said three customers were hit by flying glass. She said the names
of the victims, at least two of them women, were not available.
She said police had no suspects by Tuesday evening.
In a Nov. 14 police report, officers called the 4200 block of Overton
Crossing "a known area for drug sales."
In that incident, police chased and arrested a man who dropped a brown paper
bag containing eight pieces of crack cocaine.
On Dec. 14 police found crack cocaine on a young man who tried to escape,
ran into Sunny's Grocery, grabbed snack foods and threw them toward an
officer. He was captured and taken to Juvenile Court.
http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/local_news/article/0,1426,MCA_437_934697,00.htm
l
***nigger rapes, kills 12 year old***
Charges filed in deadly attack on girl
Man admits raping, killing 12-year-old
January 9, 2002
BY DAN SHINE
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER
A 22-year-old Detroit man has been charged in the August 2000 rape and
homicide of a 12-year-old girl he allegedly attacked while she slept.
Ricardo Stubbs, who has been in police custody since a Nov. 26 arraignment
on two unrelated cases, is expected to be arraigned on the new charges
Wednesday. He was charged in the death of J'Nai Glasker, a seventh-grader at
Beaubien Middle School in Detroit, after DNA tests linked him to the
killing.
J'nai's body was found in her blood-soaked bed. Her bedroom walls and floor
were splattered with blood; she had been struck in the head more than 30
times.
Stubbs is charged with premeditated murder, felony murder, first-degree
criminal sexual conduct, first-degree home invasion and habitual
offender-fourth offense.
Stubbs has charges pending in two other cases. Police said Stubbs broke into
a Detroit woman's home in May and assaulted her. Investigators said he
committed a similar assault in June on a woman in her Detroit home. In both
cases, the women were hit on the head with a hammer or other metal object.
Both women survived the attacks.
"A couple of alert officers saw a disturbing pattern related to what
happened to Ms. Glasker," said Mike Cox, a Wayne County assistant prosecutor
in charge of the homicide division. "They were able to compare evidence and
identify Mr. Stubbs, find out where he was and pursue him."
Stubbs was arrested in Memphis, Tenn., where he fled after being identified
by one of the women. During questioning by Detroit investigators, Stubbs
confessed to raping and killing J'Nai, said Detroit Police Inspector William
Rice.
Stubbs' confession was the second confession in the case. An initial
suspect, who has an IQ of 71 and reads at a sixth-grade level, had also
confessed to the crime, police said. He was cleared because the DNA test
showed he was not a match.
Cox and Rice said a collaborative effort by homicide investigators, the sex
crimes section, a surveillance unit and a task force led to Stubbs being
charged with J'Nai's death. J'Nai's father, Jaren Glasker, thanked police
for their diligence.
"It is a relief having him taken off the streets for all our children,"
Glasker said Tuesday.
Just after midnight Aug. 31, 2000, J'nai's mother heard moans and looked in
on her daughter. She saw a man raping her. She ran from their home in the
19300 block of Stansbury screaming for help. She called police at a
neighbor's house and returned with officers to find that her daughter had
been killed.
http://www.freep.com/news/locway/stubbs9_20020109.htm
***Company sues over race preferences***
Contractor sues over minority preference
Lawsuit: City practice breaches Constitution
By SHARIF DURHAMS
A Charlotte construction company sued the city in federal court Tuesday,
alleging the City of Charlotte's policy of seeking out minority contractors
for projects is unconstitutional.
United Construction of Charlotte wants the court to ban Charlotte's minority
contracting rules and to force the city to pay an undetermined amount in
damages for a contract it lost. Attorneys said the company is seeking at
least $300,000.
"We're here for racial equity," said Phil Kent, president of the
Southeastern Legal Foundation, a conservative Atlanta-based group backing
the suit. "We say this is a quota. That's wrong. There should be no racial
or gender quotas in affirmative action programs."
City attorneys dispute the claim, saying the rules only encourage, but do
not require, the hiring of minority firms.
The suit, filed in U.S. District Court, argues the city's Minority and
Women-Owned Business Development Program puts undue burdens on all
contractors and encourages them to violate the Equal Protection Clause of
the U.S. Constitution.
City attorney Mac McCarley wouldn't say whether the city would fight the
suit. But he said he believed council members still supported the policies.
"We are in the process of studying the cases out there," he said. "I think
there is national, state and local policy in favor of (such) programs," he
said. He added later: "I suspect (City Council) will ask for the most
aggressive program allowable under law."
Courts have been scaling back affirmative action programs. The Southeastern
Legal Foundation has successfully challenged affirmative action policies in
bidding laws in Atlanta, Jacksonville, Nashville and Richmond. A 1995 U.S.
Supreme Court ruling calls on courts to scrutinize federal programs with
racial preferences to ensure they are "narrowly tailored" to meet "a
compelling government interest."
The suit against Charlotte, however, is the first in which the city rules
are backed by state law. The statutes require local governments to adopt
laws that encourage minority participation, and 10 percent of all projects
built with state money is supposed to go to minority-owned entities.
Council members will be briefed on the case at a closed meeting Monday. The
city has 20 days to respond to the suit. The court will require both sides
to talk about how they might settle the case, Kent said.
A catch in the city's affirmative action rules caused the city to pass over
United Construction for a $2.5 million road building contract last year,
even though the company is Asian-owned.
The council voted 8-3 in October to award the contract to white-owned
Sealand Construction Corp. of Charlotte, the next-lowest bidder, which
planned to give 6percent of the work to minority and women-owned firms.
It passed over United Construction because that firm planned to award only
1.2percent of the project to a female-owned company. The city's rules
require any contractor that uses subcontractors to make a "good faith
effort" to enlist minority companies - even if the contractors are women or
minorities.
The city ended up offering Sealand Construction an additional $170,000 - or
a total of $2.7million - to build turn lanes and make other improvements to
the Sharon Amity/Monroe Road intersection.
United co-owner Ali Bahmanyar referred questions to Kent.
http://www.charlotte.com/observer/local/pub/minority0109.htm
***nigger kills whole family of niggers***
Man accused in slayings of 3
Suspect in weekend stabbings was less than a month out of prison
Associated Press
ASHEVILLE -- Police have charged an Asheville man in the stabbing deaths of
a woman and her two daughters, found in their home over the weekend.
Demetrius Antonio Jones, 31, has been charged with three counts of
first-degree murder for the deaths of Charlene Major and her two daughters,
Octavia Denise Major, 16, and 10-year-old Shanika Niyiel Major. The woman
and girls were found stabbed to death in their Asheville home on Sunday.
Police believe Jones and Major are acquaintances but don't know the nature
of their relationship or have a motive for the killings.
"There's nothing to say," said Capt. Tom Aardema of the Asheville Police
Department. "There's nothing to say that makes sense."
Police believe Jones was at a local club and went to Major's apartment
sometime before 4a.m. Officers allege he committed the murders between 4 and
5a.m., then changed his bloodstained pants and took them with him.
http://www.charlotte.com/observer/local/pub/triplemurder0109.htm
***Atlanta trying to find 12 people who will aquit H. Rap***
Jury selection in Al-Amin case
expected to be long, tedious
By STEVE VISSER
Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer
Rich Addicks / AJC
Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin, on trial in Fulton County for the shooting death of
a Fulton County sheriff and the wounding of another, during the jury
selection process on Tuesday.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
A population equivalent to a small town is expected to trudge through the
Fulton County courtroom during this week as lawyers begin picking jurors in
the high-profile trial of Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin.
A total of 1,500 people have been summoned for jury duty -- a number several
lawyers said is the most they could remember being called for a criminal
case in Fulton County.
"I've been doing this for well over 20 years, and I've never seen this
number of jurors called before . . . not in Georgia," said Michael Mears,
director of the Multi-County Public Defender Office.
Al-Amin is on trial for his life on charges of murdering a deputy sheriff.
He was once known as the 1960s militant H. Rap Brown -- who sparked legions
of admirers and critics -- and now is a prominent Muslim cleric. The case
against Al-Amin was scheduled for trial in September, but was postponed
after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks because of fears of a backlash.
Tom West, a lawyer with experience in death-penalty cases, said he has seen
as many as 500 people called to ensure an adequate jury pool. Prosecutors
said the largest pool of jurors they could recall was 600 for a case in
which the murder victim was an Atlanta police officer.
The enormous jury pool will make it easier to exclude people in the early
stages of jury selection because of concerns they can't be fair-minded,
Mears said. That means court officials shouldn't have to worry about running
out of jurors in the publicity-saturated case, Mears said.
"The more potential jurors you have, the easier it is for the judge to make
reasonable decisions about disqualifying people because of exposure to
pretrial publicity and being biased," he said.
Superior Court Judge Stephanie Manis is managing the jury selection by
calling the jury pool in through Friday to fill out questionnaires about
themselves and their beliefs.
Court officials don't expect all of the 1,500 people to attend. Only about
half of the 250 summoned Tuesday actually showed up. Manis told the
potential jurors to fully answer the written questions because it would
reduce the amount of courtroom time spent questioning jurors next week.
Beginning next week, 24 members of the jury pool will be called each day for
more extensive questioning by lawyers. Potential jurors have to phone the
court each day to see if it is their day to report. Some may never be called
because once the court has qualified enough people to allow lawyers to pick
a jury -- in this case probably about 60 -- the others' service won't be
needed.
For security reasons, potential jurors will be identified only by numbers so
the individuals can remain unidentified. Manis said the completed
questionnaires won't be released to the public.
Jury selection is expected to last about a month.
Tuesday, one potential juror asked the judge how long she thought selecting
the jury would take because those summoned have to "put our lives on hold"
until a jury is selected.
"I have no idea," Manis said. "It's going to take some weeks."
http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/metro/alamin/010902.html
***TNB***
Suspects sought in fatal shooting
Wednesday, January 9, 2002
BY GLENN SMITH
Of The Post and Courier Staff
Charleston County investigators continued to search for suspects
Tuesday in the fatal shooting of a 28-year-old man in West Ashley the
previous night.
Dante Craig Tobias II was found shot to death on the enclosed porch of
a home at 36 Magnolia Road Monday night. Tobias rented a room at the house,
authorities said.
Tobias was shot once in the back about 6:30 p.m., and was pronounced
dead nearly an hour later at Medical University Hospital, said Charleston
County Deputy Coroner Bobbi Jo O'Neal. An autopsy was conducted Tuesday
morning, she said.
Investigators have made no arrests and have not established a motive,
said Mitch Lucas, a spokesman for the Charleston County Sheriff's Office.
Tobias was the first homicide victim in Charleston County this year.
On Tuesday, three cars were parked in front of the yellow,
Depression-era house where Tobias was found slain, but no one answered the
door. The porch where his body was found was cluttered with plastic chairs,
yard tools and other debris. On the floor lay a small biohazard sticker, the
only visible remnant of the previous night's violence.
The few neighbors who were around Tuesday said they didn't know Tobias
or any of the occupants of the home.
One nearby renter said she was in her kitchen at the time of the
shooting but did not hear gunfire. She didn't realize anything had happened
until she saw police cruisers lining the street.
"It does make you concerned because you like to think your neighborhood
is safe," said the woman, who would not give her name.
Another neighbor said she had often seen Tobias sitting on the front
porch. The house was home to several renters at one time or another, and
people were always coming and going from the home, she said.
Anyone with information is asked to call the Charleston County
Sheriff's Office at 554-4700.
Glenn Smith covers police and crime. Contact him at 937-5556.
http://www.charleston.net/pub/news/local/murd0109.htm
***Mo TNB***
1 charged with killing man in car
More arrests expected in Nov. 19 shooting at Harris, America streets
Wednesday, January 9, 2002
BY EDWARD C. FENNELL
Of The Post and Courier Staff
A man was charged Tuesday with murder in the death of a 19-year-old man
slain last year at Harris and America streets in Charleston.
Antwon Deangelo Goodwin, 22, of Rutledge Avenue is the first of several
suspects authorities said they expect to arrest in connection with the Nov.
19, 2001, killing of Dwayne Devon Brown, 19, of Simons Street. Charleston
police charged Goodwin with murdering Brown; with assault and battery with
intent to kill in the wounding by gunfire of Tikahia Parker, 20; and with
possession of a firearm during a violent crime.
Goodwin was denied bail Tuesday on the murder charge. Magistrate Jack
Guedalia set bail totaling $250,000 on the assault and weapons charges.
Brown and Parker were in a parked car near Harris and America streets
when, police believe, several men approached and opened fire into the
driver's side, where Brown was seated. Shots hit Parker in her neck and
shoulder, and hit Brown several times in his back, arm and leg.
Witnesses told officers they heard between four and 10 shots, police
said. Brown drove a short distance before losing control of the vehicle and
crashing into a fence on Nassau Street, police said.
Brown died, while Parker ended up in a hospital. Brown, the middle
child of three sons, had worked as a construction worker and attended the
Wil Lou Gray Opportunity School in Columbia.
Goodwin was tied to the crime by witness statements, Police Chief
Reuben Greenberg said Tuesday. Police are looking for two or three
additional suspects, he said.
According to arrest warrants, witnesses saw Goodwin and two other
people with a gun talking on Harris Street prior to the shooting. The trio
was also seen fleeing from the scene minutes after the shooting, warrants
said.
Goodwin surrendered Tuesday after an officer notified his family that
investigators had warrants for his arrest, Greenberg said.
Investigators haven't determined a motive in the shooting, police
spokesman Charles Francis said.
Goodwin was one of three men arrested last year for a robbery police
later determined they had not committed. Victims of the March robbery at
Bull and Smith Streets had identified Goodwin and two other men as the trio
who took their money at gunpoint. The wrongly arrested men were freed after
five men arrested in Columbia confessed to that holdup and three others.
Staff writer Glenn Smith contributed to this report.
http://www.charleston.net/pub/news/local/arsd0109.htm
***Stil som mo TNB***
Beaufort deputies killed in shootout
Wednesday, January 9, 2002
BY EDWARD C. FENNELL
Of The Post and Courier
BURTON-Two Beaufort County sheriff's deputies died and a suspect was
wounded in a shootout that began when the officers were called to a domestic
dispute at a residence Tuesday afternoon.
A search for other possible suspects continued into the night, but was
called off late Tuesday because authorities could not confirm that anyone
else was involved. However, the sheriff said the possibility had not been
ruled out.
"This is a very tragic day in Beaufort County. We lost two of our
officers today," Beaufort County Sheriff P.J. Tanner said.
The deputies, Lance Cpl. Dana Lyle Tate, 44, and Cpl. Dyke "A.J."
Coursen, 35, had responded to a domestic call just after 4 p.m. Tuesday at a
residence in this small community in northern Beaufort County.
The two deputies went inside the home, said Beaufort County sheriff's
spokeswoman Debbie Szpanka.
"A gunbattle erupted. In the process, two of our deputies were killed,"
she said.
Soon after, the department received numerous calls from neighbors who
heard shots fired, Tanner said.
"Not knowing if we had any more suspects involved, we had to set up a
perimeter," he said.
A suspect, 39-year-old Tyree Alfonzo Roberts was injured in the
gunbattle. He was taken first to a Beaufort hospital, then transported by
ambulance to Medical University Hospital in Charleston, Tanner said. The
sheriff refused to give information about Roberts' condition or the nature
of his wounds, but said he will be charged with two counts of murder. It was
unclear whether he was a resident of the Riley Road home where the shootings
occurred.
Tanner refused to provide information about the nature of the domestic
call or the officers' wounds. He said they were the only two deputies who
had responded to the call.
"This is a very serious matter, not something we want to subject to too
much media attention," Tanner said.Police took control of an elementary
school in the neighborhood right after the shootings.
Students in Broad River Elementary's after-school program were released
to their parents under guard as a search for possible suspects nearby
continued, said Beaufort County School District spokesman John Williams.
Dozens of law enforcement vehicles from various agencies lined the
street in this suburban area of modest homes. Officers from numerous local
agencies, including the city of Charleston and Charleston County, came to
assist in the search for more suspects. Also present were the FBI, Marine
Corps and State Law Enforcement Division.
"When there is a tragedy, like any family, we in law enforcement come
together to help our own," Szpanka said.
"They can't bring back our loss, but it sure is a good feeling to see
the outpouring of support," Tanner said.
Deputy Tate was a Navy veteran who had been with the department for
more than four years, and Coursen would have completed his first year with
the department later this month, Tanner said.
They were making less than $35,000 a year to protect the residents of
Beaufort County, the sheriff said. "They've been everything to this county,
and they paid the ultimate price."
The deputies are the first Beaufort County officers to die in the line
of duty in more than a decade. Russell Bell died in 1990.
http://www.charleston.net/pub/news/state/kld0109.htm
***Lucy really likes this kind of story Nigger killed in robbery attempt***
Bread delivery truck driver shoots holdup man
Wednesday, January 9, 2002
BY GLENN SMITH
Of The Post and Courier Staff
A bread vendor shot and killed an 18-year-old man who tried to rob him
Tuesday morning as he made a delivery to a Harris Teeter supermarket on
James Island, Charleston police said.
Police said Jay Baldwin Wrenn, a former Hanahan police officer, grabbed
a gun from his pickup truck and shot the robber twice in the chest. The
robber claimed to have a gun, but police found only a pair of pliers in the
man's jacket, police Chief Reuben Greenberg said.
Investigators have determined that Wrenn, 27, acted in self-defense,
Greenberg said. He was not arrested, and Greenberg said he would not support
any effort to charge Wrenn with a crime.
"No crime has been committed, and you can't charge someone if no crime
has been committed," he said. "If people decide to engage in armed robbery,
they take a chance. It's a highly risky occupation."
Authorities identified the dead man as Tyrone McDaniel of Riley Road,
which is a few blocks from the Folly Road supermarket. McDaniel had a
"substantial" criminal record and is suspected of robbing two other vendors
at the supermarket in the past two weeks, Greenberg said.
McDaniel died at Medical University Hospital shortly after the
shooting, Charleston County Deputy Coroner Bobbi Jo O'Neal said.
Investigators say a man approached Wrenn as he was delivering bread in
the rear of Harris Teeter at 8 a.m. The man motioned with his hand under his
jacket as if he had a gun and told Wrenn to "give me your money or I'll
blast you," police said.
The robber then walked Wrenn back to his pickup truck so the vendor
could get his wallet from the glove compartment, which also contained a
.38-caliber revolver, police said. State law allows pistol owners to carry
their guns in vehicles, as long as the weapons are secured in a closed glove
box, console or trunk.
"Mr. Wrenn, fearing for his life, reached inside the glove compartment,
grabbed his revolver and shot the perpetrator twice," Greenberg said.
Greenberg said standard police training calls for officers to fire
twice, or "double tap," targets. He described Tuesday's shooting as a
"range-type shot."
"He fired only the shots that appeared to be necessary," he said.
When police arrived at the supermarket, they found Wrenn clutching his
revolver in one hand and a cell phone in the other. McDaniel lay on his back
at Wrenn's feet. Wrenn was ordered to drop the weapon and lie on the ground,
which he did.
He was then handcuffed for a short time until police could determine
what happened, according to a police report.
Charleston police didn't know how long Wrenn served as a police
officer, and Hanahan authorities could not be reached for comment. Wrenn
declined to comment on the incident.
After speaking with police, Wrenn left the area with his father. His
sister, Rhonda Metts, remained behind to finish loading bread into the
supermarket.
"I feel relieved Jay is OK and it turned out the way it did," Metts
said.
She said she was worried, but not surprised, when she learned _someone
had tried to rob her _brother.
"In this business, it's bound to happen sooner or later because we work
in the dark in the early morning hours," she said.
In the past two weeks, two vendors were robbed at Harris Teeter. A
Krispy Kreme deliveryman was robbed on Dec. 29, and another vendor was
robbed Monday, Greenberg said.
Monday's victim, who reported the crime to police on Tuesday,
identified McDaniel as the man who robbed him after looking at a photo
line-up, Greenberg said. The Krispy Kreme deliveryman had not been contacted
Tuesday, but words used by the robber in that crime were identical to those
by McDaniel Tuesday morning, he said.
McDaniel, who would have turned 19 on Friday, had a lengthy criminal
record as a juvenile, with arrests for vandalism, auto theft, assault and
possession of stolen property, Greenberg said. As an adult, he was convicted
of criminal domestic violence in August 2000 and was awaiting trial on
similar charges, according to State Law Enforcement Division records.
A woman who answered the phone at McDaniel's home Tuesday afternoon
said the family was "in distress" and was unavailable for comment.
Mike Mock, another bread vendor who is a friend of Wrenn, said it was
senseless for someone to try to rob vendors because they operate by charge
accounts and carry little cash.
"It just makes you mad that this had to happen, especially when we
don't carry nothing but pocket change," he said.
"Unless he had some personal money on him, there was probably nothing
there."
http://www.charleston.net/pub/news/local/brea0109.htm
***Niggers say they didn't do it***
Two plead not guilty in Brown killing
By MAE GENTRY
Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer
Two of the three men charged with murder in the December 2000 slaying of
DeKalb County Sheriff-elect Derwin Brown pleaded not guilty Tuesday.
David Ramsey
Melvin Walker
David Ramsey and former DeKalb Deputy Melvin Walker appeared before Superior
Court Judge Robert Mallis to hear the charges against them. The third
defendant, former Sheriff Sidney Dorsey, has not been indicted but remains
jailed on the murder charge.
The three allegedly conspired to kill Brown, who had defeated Dorsey in a
runoff. Two other men, ex-Deputy Patrick Cuffy and ex-Dorsey employee Paul
Skyers, have been granted immunity and are cooperating with police. Cuffy
remains jailed in a separate case. Skyers has not been charged.
Before the case against Ramsey and Walker can proceed, Mallis said, he will
consider a defense attorney's request that he disqualify himself because of
a possible conflict of interest.
"That's the threshold issue," Mallis said. "I've got to determine that
first."
Ramsey's lawyer, Xavier Dicks, wants Mallis to recuse himself because the
judge is scheduled to sentence Cuffy in a separate case. Cuffy pleaded
guilty to aggravated assault in a March 18 confrontation that began in
Cuffy's front yard and ended with the death of drug dealer Jeffery George.
On Tuesday, DeKalb District Attorney J. Tom Morgan's office cited a prior
case to support the position that Mallis can remain on the case of Ramsey
and Walker. Dicks said he would study the prior case and then file his
motion asking Mallis to step aside today.
http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/metro/0102/0109brownhear.html
***Fed after Atlanta HNIC***
Feds seize Campbell computers
Franklin OKs taking them, buys new ones
Richard Whitt - Staff
Wednesday, January 9, 2002
Federal authorities investigating corruption in Atlanta City Hall asked city
officials to secure desktop computers from former Mayor Bill Campbell's
offices, apparently to protect any potential evidence from being
inadvertently destroyed.
New Mayor Shirley Franklin said she immediately complied with the request
and ordered new computers for her offices.
City technicians removed two computer workstations from the mayor's office
Saturday, while Campbell officially was still in office, said Edgar Taylor,
manager of the city Bureau of Information Services.
Those computers, including one used by Campbell's secretary, have been
placed in storage, Taylor said.
This week, Taylor said, he was asked to inventory other computer
workstations in the mayor's offices and to install seven new computers for
the new administration.
"We took inventory of all the hardware and were told that the computers are
not to be touched," Taylor said.
Taylor said he was asked by city lawyers to secure the computers, but
understood it was at the request of federal investigators.
Deputy City Attorney Bob Godfrey said the request came from Assistant U.S.
Attorney Sally Yates, who is heading the federal investigation.
"She said that she was concerned that in the process of clearing out the
offices that nothing was erased," said Godfrey.
A spokesman for the U.S. attorney's office declined to comment.
Michael Coleman, one of Campbell's lawyers, said he didn't know federal
authorities had requested the preservation of the computer records until
told by a reporter.
"The witch hunt continues," Coleman said, "but there's nothing there."
Authorities have been investigating corruption in Atlanta's city government
for more than two years. Several city officials and close friends of
Campbell's have been indicted or have pleaded guilty to corruption charges.
However, Campbell has insisted that he has done nothing illegal and last
week predicted that he would never be indicted.
"They have to have evidence that you've done something," Campbell said.
"I've done things the right way."
Federal authorities have appealed to city employees to come forward if they
have information that might help the investigation.
http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/epaper/editions/today/metro_c3b38e4ed42e902
80036.html
***Driving while black**
Harvey driver hits home; sister dies
19-year-old pinned underneath the car By Wayne Knabb Staff writer
01/08/02
A 19-year-old Harvey woman died Monday night after her older sister, a
student driver, accidentally drove her car into her home, pinning her sister
under the car , the Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office said.
Gayrol Payton, 20, was driving a 1992 blue four-door Ford Taurus about 10:20
p.m. on Max Drive when the accident occurred. Col. Robert Garner, a
sheriff's spokesman, said apparently Payton hit the accelerator instead of
the brake while trying to make a sharp turn in front of her house at 3721
Max. Adromadanna Payton, 19, died at the scene, police said.
Police said the student driver's fiance and owner of the car, Devon Jones,
who lives on the West Bank, was with her in the car, the spokesman said.
Three boys, ages 5 months, 2 years and 3 years, were taken to West Jefferson
Medical Center in Marrero to be examined for unspecified injuries, Garner
said.
The driver's mother, Sharon Payton, 43, complained of an injured foot, the
spokesman said.
Jones was cited for having no proof of insurance and for allowing an
unlicensed person to operate his vehicle. He may face additional charges,
Garner said.
The driver may face charges when the investigation is finished, the
spokesman said.
http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/metro/index.ssf?/newsstory/fatal08(2).html
"Rev. Dr. Calvin Abu Hindoo Qusz, Jr" <fuc...@honkey.motherfuckers> wrote in
message news:a478os$8q6$0...@dosa.alt.net...
Kaiju
LAW & DISORDER: Estranged boyfriend sought in killing
By P. Douglas Filaroski
Times-Union staff writer
Police are looking for a Jacksonville man they say broke into a beauty salon
Friday night and shot his estranged girlfriend to death.
Witnesses told police Shirae Levanley Hickson, 28, of Jenkins Road fired
several shots that killed Chiffon Bryant as she tried to hide in a restroom.
Bryant, 28, worked at House of Styles, a salon on McDuff Avenue owned by her
sister, Tonya House. House witnessed the attack around 11:30 p.m.
Other witnesses also were with Bryant at the salon, police said. They told
police Hickson followed Bryant to the rear of the salon and confronted her
about differences in their relationship before opening fire.
Bryant died at the scene, police said.
Anyone with information on Hickson's whereabouts can call police at (904)
630-2172.
ARMED ROBBERIES: A vehicle used by two men who robbed a McDuff Avenue
convenience store Friday night matched one used minutes later in an
unsuccessful robbery attempt on Edgewood Avenue West, Jacksonville police
said.
Police are searching for two men who brandished shotguns as they robbed
Sprint Foods on McDuff, making off with cash and a clerk's gold necklaces.
The first robbery happened around 11:45 p.m. A witness said he saw an
assailant run toward a black sport utility vehicle.
Police said the description matched the vehicle used by two armed men who
tried to rob the B.P. Amoco on Edgewood Avenue West around 12:30 p.m.
In that robbery, the men unsuccessfully tried to gain entrance to a locked
clerk's area. When the clerk picked up the phone to call police, the men
fled.
A witness outside the store saw them flee southbound on Tarleton Road in a
black sport utility vehicle.
LAUNDRY HOLDUP: A man robbed the Powers Avenue Laundry in Jacksonville
around 9:30 p.m. Friday after holding a gun to a 17-year-old clerk's head.
The clerk said the man asked to use the bathroom, then asked for change. He
turned, put a gun to the young women's head, and said: "Give me all the
money."
She said the man fled in a small, possibly maroon, vehicle.
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/012002/met_8390788.html
***Mo TNB***
Hoping to spur arrests, police list 'most wanted'
By Veronica Chapin
Times-Union staff writer
Kenyatte Sykes was riding his bicycle near his Jacksonville home when he was
shot, run over and buried behind a Blair Street residence. A suspect,
Charles Quaintance III, has been wanted since the drug-related slaying Aug.
13.
Nearly four months later in an unrelated case, convicted cocaine dealer
William Henry Gilliard was shot dead in his Cesery Boulevard home. Kenneth
Boggs, who recently had been released from prison on a murder conviction,
still is being sought in his death.
In March, Paul Kenneth Spence was left to die in an open field on East 25th
Street in a drug deal gone bad. Antwan Eugene Miller was arrested Monday and
police are looking for another suspect, Samuel James, in the slaying.
Quaintance, Boggs and James recently were touted as Jacksonville's most
wanted and police are offering a reward for information leading to their
arrests.
"We believe that two of these men are still here locally, and we are looking
to the community for help in capturing them," homicide Lt. Rick Graham said.
"They're dangerous. They are totally capable of committing a crime again if
they aren't apprehended."
Boggs may have left the state, Graham said. Information on the three men has
been put into the National Crime Information Center database to help
authorities identify the suspects if they're picked up on other charges
outside the state.
Quaintance is 22, Boggs is 33 and James is 22. All are from Jacksonville.
A couple of days after 22-year-old Sykes was gunned down on his bike,
Quaintance's father was shot execution-style in apparent retaliation, police
said. He was helping a 3-year-old out of a car at his Arlington home, his
pregnant fiancee and a 10-year-old were standing only feet away.
About 8 percent of the homicides in Jacksonville are drug-related, Graham
said.
They are among the 79 homicides reported in 2000 countywide and the 74 in
2001. The 2001 number hasn't yet been finalized and could change, Capt. Bill
Chitty said.
"These people [the victims] were targeted because of the relationship they
had with the suspect," Chief Frank Mackesy said. "They're separate and
distinct incidences."
Anyone with information on the whereabouts of the three men can call the
Sheriff's Office at 630-0500.
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/012002/met_8390748.html
***Cop wants to send nigger back to Africa***
Officer's remarks taped; comment surfaces during DA probe
By EMILY HEFFTER
Staff Writer
LA VERGNE - A La Vergne police officer told a suspect last summer that he
should ''ship him back to Africa'' for lying to him, a police department
memo shows.
A tape recorder captured Officer Wade Hatfield's voice making the comment.
The local district attorney's office already is investigating Hatfield and
another La Vergne police officer in the beating of a handcuffed suspect last
year, another incident that was recorded.
City spokeswoman Angie Mayes said investigators found Hatfield's taped
comment while they were looking for information about the beating incident.
Advertisement
A videotape of the beating incident allegedly shows Officer Carl McMillen
hitting a suspect with a baton, then Hatfield kneeing the man in the groin.
Hatfield could not be reached at work, and his home phone number is
un-listed.
The police department did not formally investigate Hatfield's comments, and
no disciplinary action was taken. The information is not in his personnel
file.
Police Chief Ted Boyd would not comment on the incident.
''That's not becoming of a police officer in our department,'' Mayor Mike
Webb said. ''That's certainly not the actions we want them to take, the ones
we put out on the street.''
''That statement alone shows that this is a policeman who is out of
control,'' said Dwight Ogleton, president of the Murfreesboro/Rutherford
County branch of the NAACP.
Ogleton said he would contact department heads next week to address the
issue.
Mayes said she did not know the name of the suspect to whom Hatfield spoke
on the tape, or his race. The city documents didn't say. Hatfield is white.
According to a city memo, the audiotape that Hatfield submitted in September
was broken, nicked and stretched in two places.
A department detective used a splicing device and some computer software to
recover the voices on the tape.
''The tape had gotten eaten in the tape player and he was piecing it back
together when he found'' the comment, Mayes said.
http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/02/01/12635242.shtml?Element_ID=126
35242
***South Carolina to take on niggers***
Confederate flag supporters stage subdued rally
Sunday, January 20, 2002
Associated Press
COLUMBIA-A Confederate flag supporter has one message for the NAACP:
keep out of South Carolina.
"Don't cross the border, stay on the other side," said Jerry Creech of
the Southern Small Business Association during a Confederate flag rally on
Saturday. "We don't want you here."
A little more than 100 people turned out for the rally at the
Statehouse, but organizers say the events of Sept. 11 and a forecast of rain
subdued the small crowd.
About half the supporters, many in Stars and Bars hats, T-shirts, and
bandanas, carried large Confederate flags and waved them throughout the
two-hour demonstration.
A group of men in gray Confederate soldier garb toted rifles instead of
flags and some women in 1800s hoop-style dresses strolled throughout the
crowd.
The Confederate flag issue has continued to divide the state after the
Legislature decided to move the flag from the Statehouse dome to the
Confederate soldier monument on the grounds in July 2000 as part of a
compromise.
For the past three years, the National Association for the Advancement
of Colored People has staged an economic boycott of the state to pressure
lawmakers to completely remove the flag from Statehouse grounds. Another
protest is planned Monday in honor of the birthday of slain civil rights
leader the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
The NAACP last week said they will stage "border patrols" along state
lines, using signs to urge motorists not to stop in South Carolina.
Clarkson said the NAACP just needs something to fight.
"They need a cause," he said. "They went around looking and found the
flag."
Rally organizer Robert Clarkson of Anderson says the Southern Rights
Association's event counters the NAACP's Monday rally.
Clarkson said the flag isn't about racism, though. It's about heritage.
"It's not a political symbol to us," he said. "We just don't like other
people saying things about our flag."
Saturday's rally included speeches, songs and prayer. The most rousing
speech was by the only black speaker, Stanley Lott, a member of the Sons of
Confederate Veterans.
"Southern white people were right to stand up to the U.S. government,"
Lott, 41, said as the crowd cheered.
But other protesters were less radical in their rhetoric, like Olin
Huffman, 55, of Cherokee.
Huffman took time before the rally to check out the African-American
monument on the Statehouse grounds. He said it was "absolutely proper" to be
placed on the grounds and said the damaged monument should have been fixed
by now.
In December, a Columbia man drove his car onto the grounds and hit the
side of the monument.
Rep. JoAnne Gilham, R-Hilton Head Island, said she fears increased
publicity about the NAACP's boycott could detract attention from issues she
said are truly affecting South Carolinians.
"The flag issue was settled two years ago with a compromise, and we
need to move forward," Gilham said.
"There are tremendous issues that we need to deal with in this state,
issues like education, the economy and health issues. Those are things we
need to address. The flag issue will not be reopened."
http://www.charleston.net/pub/news/state/conf0120.htm
***KKK comes to East Tennessee***
Klansmen outnumbered by counterprotesters at wet Eaststate rally
AP
A Tennessee state trooper stands ready in full riot gear as a member of the
Ku Klux Klan speaks at a rally on the steps of the courthouse yesterday in
Newport, Tenn.
By DUNCAN MANSFIELD
Associated Press
NEWPORT, Tenn. - The words of two dozen Ku Klux Klansmen were drowned
yesterday by a cold, driving rain and the constant drumbeats of
counterprotesters.
''Hey, hey, ho, ho. KKK has to go,'' the counterprotesters chanted.
For nearly two hours, the Klansmen railed from the Cocke County Courthouse
steps, waving a Confederate battle flag and periodically giving a Nazi
salute.
A crowd of about 400 people watched from behind yellow police tape. More
than 125 state troopers stood shoulder to shoulder in riot gear between the
audience and the Klan. Sharpshooters were on the roof.
Advertisement
There were four arrests for public drunkenness, and two Klan supporters were
arrested on unrelated minor charges before the event began. But there were
no fights.
''Thankfully, we can end this day with no conflict,'' said Dana Keeton,
spokeswoman for the state Department of Safety.
The rally, the first public Klan event in the region in decades, fell on
Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee's birthday and two days before the observance
of the Martin Luther King Jr. holiday.
Klan organizers said this town of 7,100 was selected because it was a
convenient location, not because it has a black mayor. They denied
involvement in the cross burning early Wednesday at his house.
The leader of the Church of the Knights of Yahweh, the Morristown-based KKK
branch behind the rally, told a reporter afterward that he knew it was hard
to hear what was said at the rally.
But grand dragon Scott Fultz said the news media weren't listening anyway.
''Really, I am here to protest you all,'' he said before police ushered him
into his car. ''Because you people have neglected to hear the sovereign
people, the people in the counties. You are not hearing East Tennessee.''
There were sympathizers in the crowd. Rick Spring said he drove all the way
from Arkansas ''to support my white brothers.''
AP
Takisha Fitzgerald, assistant district attorney of the 6th Judicial
District, yells at Ku Klux Klansmen during yesterday's rally.
There also were opponents, many carrying signs saying, ''End Racism.''
Two New York ministers, the Rev. Willie Wade of the Bronx and the Rev. Ron
Weinbaum of Brooklyn, happened to be studying in the area and came out of
curiosity.
''Evil has to always be checked,'' said Wade, who is black. ''It has to know
that it will be fought, it will be ashamed and it will be embarrassed, and
that love will win out.''
''We had a lot of people tell us that this is ignorance and that we
shouldn't come down here,'' said Weinbaum, who is white. ''Our view is that
ignorance needs to be answered.''
The community sponsored a diversity festival at the local high school in an
effort to draw people away from the Klan event. About 800 people attended
the festival.
''Now is the time for Americans to renounce the protests of a vocal
minority, which opposes our fight to preserve and promote freedom,'' Mayor
Roland Dykes said in opening the festival.
He received a standing ovation.
Vicki Smith said the festival was a positive consequence of the Klan rally.
''It might have awakened us,'' she said. ''I think the community is united
now, not in hatred but in love.''
http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/02/01/12635459.shtml?Element_ID=126
35459
****sounds like jew/nigger propaganda***
Racial divide fosters isolation, intolerance
Segregation's social costs set back region in multihued world
By Gordon Trowbridge, and Oralandar Brand-Williams / The Detroit News
The Cost of Segregation Part II: Paying For Preferences
Monday, The Detroit News will publish the second of three special reports
examining the impact of segregation in Metro Detroit. Monday's installment
will focus on the heavy costs residents pay for having the most racially
polarized housing in the nation.
Read previous installments of this series.
Would you be willing to participate in a town-hall forum on the issue of
segregation? Please CLICK HERE and fill out the form to be considered for
participation.
More on WDIV/TV 4
Watch for special reports by Emery King and Roger Weber during Monday's 5
p.m. and 11 p.m. newscasts.
Comment on this story
Send this story to a friend
Get Home Delivery
Lori Turner knows the real world isn't like this.
Turner realizes she's raising her 13-month-old son in a community --
Macomb Township, which is 96 percent white, and in a metropolis -- the
Detroit area -- that's the most racially segregated in the country.
"It's certainly unusual to see much variety when you go to the grocery
store," she said. "You know you're living in an all-white area.
"In the work place, in academics, it's not like that," said Turner, who
knows her son someday will have to interact with people of other races.
"When children are brought up around only one cultural or ethnic makeup, it
doesn't encourage them to be accepting."
It is a common story across Metro Detroit, where some believe segregation
breeds several social ills: a false sense of America's diversity, racial
isolation, intolerance toward others and, in the end, a perpetuation of
separate living patterns.
Monday, The Detroit News explores the price of segregation, a price paid
by Metro Detroiters black and white. From depressed black neighborhoods in
Detroit to traffic-clogged suburbs to inflated suburban housing values, The
News found effects of segregation that are seldom realized but are many and
steep.
Ultimately, the most universal of all may be how much the separateness
Metro Detroit neighborhoods keeps many unprepared for the rest of a
multihued, melting-pot globe.
A world apart
Some of segregation's costs are starkly economic: depressed home values
in African-American neighborhoods and inflated prices in white suburbs.
Others are matters of convenience: mushrooming gridlock on the suburban
fringe, or the lack of a good grocery store in a black neighborhood.
Despite mountains of academic research documenting these costs, The News
found that, for the most part, Metro Detroiters seldom notice them.
"I just haven't seen it to be a problem," said 55-year-old Marilyn
Simpson of Macomb Township. "I just don't know of anybody that's personally
affected by it."
Her feelings aren't unique. In more than 200 interviews with Metro
Detroit residents, and in two public-opinion polls, the area's attitudes
toward its overwhelming racial segregation is clear: We're not exactly ready
to put our No. 1 ranking on a Chamber of Commerce brochure, but we don't
really see how it costs us anything, either.
Still, many are at least aware that things here are different, and not
always for the better. People new to Metro Detroit, or unfamiliar with its
black-white dividing lines, can find the separation shocking.
Angela Kaza came to the area from Southern California when she was 12. As
the only minority in a largely white school, Kaza said she felt something
she'd never experienced in California: isolation.
"It freaked them out a little bit, I think," Kaza, who is Indian, said of
fellow students. "I was the only person of a different group and a different
religion. It felt really uncomfortable.
"It was totally different in California, a lot more diverse. It didn't
seem like there was any sort of segregation." Kasa now is a senior at
University of Detroit Mercy High, where the racial and ethnic diversity
makes her feel more comfortable.
Her story points to one of the subtle but telling repercussions of
neighborhood segregation: How little Metro Detroiters know of other races
before they reach the work place.
Work is by far the most common place for Metro Detroiters to befriend
people of different races; more than half of the people surveyed in a
Detroit News/WDIV poll in August said they first met their friends of
different races at work. By contrast, only a quarter of those polled said
they had met a friend of a different race in school and far fewer -- only 8
percent -- had made a friend of another race who was their neighbor.
Still, one in three Metro Detroiters said they've never had a close
friend of a different race.
'They should be able to share'
"Children who grow up in these areas have a false sense of reality when
it comes to diversity in the United States," said University of
Detroit-Mercy sociologist Lyn Lewis. "It affects the degree to which they
embrace diversity and appreciate diversity.
"All of these things will affect them more when they go to college and
eventually get into the workplace. Then they are forced to deal with people
different from themselves."
It's a worry to African Americans such as the Rev. Pamela Reed, a Detroit
minister.
"Blacks and whites should be able to know our histories," said Reed.
"They should be able to share."
The lack of familiarity shows up in surprising places. Mark Wyckoff is
president of the Planning & Zoning Center, a Lansing-based consulting firm
that consults with governments and private groups on land use and
development issues. He regularly meets with government officials and
business people in big cities, suburbs and rural areas, and said he often
finds himself cringing at a racially insensitive remark.
"When we don't live together, the benefits of diversity don't exist -- we
don't know what we're missing," Wyckoff said. "The more homogeneous a
population becomes, the less tolerance there is."
To some observers, young Metro Detroiters are beginning to recognize
their segregated neighborhoods aren't all that the world has to offer.
Detroiter James Turner, a historic-preservation activist, said younger
whites are bucking the trend, however, and making an effort to learn about
others from different backgrounds.
"What we're starting to see is the migration of suburban youth into urban
centers primarily because of the blandness of suburbia and the blandness of
one norm," Turner said.
http://www.detnews.com/2002/metro/0201/20/a01-395018.htm
***CDC spends $700,000 in Wake county N.C. to tell niggers about syph***
Victories against syphilis
Grass-roots effort helps cut Wake rate
By BONNIE ROCHMAN, Staff Writer
At Pete Utley's barber shop in Southeast Raleigh, it costs $10 for a
haircut, $5 for a shave. Condoms and brochures on the perils of syphilis are
free.
Explaining the various stages and symptoms of the sexually transmitted
disease, the pamphlets are nothing like the usual collection of dog-eared
magazines found at barber shops. But as far as Utley is concerned, it's the
least he can do for his community.
"Look around," he said, gesturing to young men hanging out on street corners
in the middle of a workday this week. "That's not my war they're fighting
over there with [Osama] bin Laden. This is my war right here."
And, thanks to people like Utley and to six-figure federal grants, officials
say victory is a real possibility.
Between 1998 and December of last year, the number of infectious syphilis
cases in Wake dropped by 56 percent to 21 people, according to the state's
most recent figures. This year, officials hope to see a further reduction of
up to 30 percent.
Three years ago, Wake County was singled out by the U.S. Centers for Disease
Control and Prevention. With 105 cases of syphilis that year, it ranked
among 28 counties that accounted for half of all syphilis diagnoses
nationwide.
Compared with incidences of other public health scourges, the numbers
themselves are not large, measured in tens or hundreds, not thousands. In
fact, about 80 percent of counties nationwide have already succeeded in
wiping out syphilis, a potentially fatal disease marked by rashes and
lesions that can lead to blindness, mental illness and heart disease.
Wake's grass-roots approach
To speed the process in the remaining counties, federal health officials
designated Wake as one of three nationwide sites where intense,
community-based intervention and testing seeks to whittle the number of
people with syphilis.
So far, Wake has received close to $700,000 from the CDC for its five-year
campaign, which relies heavily on grass-roots education, neighborhood
testing sites and what is essentially door-to-door marketing as Wake Human
Services staffers canvass streets armed with graphic pictures of angry
syphilis sores.
Sharlene Simon, who coordinates Wake County's participation in the
nationwide Syphilis Elimination Project, attributes the success so far to
the emphasis on community involvement, unlike previous national efforts in
the 1930s and 1950s that relied on increased public health testing and
surveillance. A community task force advises health workers where they
should focus and how to communicate with residents.
As a result, staffers are dispatched daily to convenience stores, to soccer
games, to gay nightclubs to spread the word. They also go to the county
jail, where every inmate who agrees is tested. And there are blurbs about
syphilis in "Hip Hop Heads," a new local music magazine, and in radio spots
and booklets featuring Bro-Man, created in the image of a streetwise and
STD-savvy rapper. He uses what Simon calls "street-based language" -- "Don't
be in the dark, bro! Check out the 411 on syphilis" -- to target
African-American men between the ages of 21 and 35.
The communities where they live, typically poorer and lacking easy access to
health care, are a breeding ground for syphilis, Simon said.
"When you can tailor your outreach, you show much greater success," she
said.
Setting an example
Wake's strategies have proved so successful that Human Services employees
have given presentations on their methods at the National STD Conference in
Milwaukee in 2000. In March, they will discuss their progress again at this
year's conference in San Diego. Meanwhile, federal officials are drawing on
Wake's experience and that of the other two participating counties -- where
Nashville and Indianapolis are located -- to evaluate and guide national
elimination efforts.
But narrowing the numbers further won't be easy. The accepted goal of
syphilis elimination is 0.4 new cases per 100,000 people per year. In Wake,
that would mean just 2.5 new cases a year, a figure that Peter Leone, the
medical director for Wake's STD and HIV program, thinks is optimistic but
reachable by 2005.
This year, he would consider it significant progress if just 15 new cases
are found.
"As you get closer to elimination, it gets much harder to drop the rates,"
Leone said. "It becomes more difficult to identify the cases."
In North Carolina, the network of interstates makes eradication particularly
challenging. Major highways are often associated with drug trafficking and
swapping drugs for sex, much of it unprotected, Leone said. That phenomenon
is illustrated not only in Wake, which is sliced in half by Interstate 40,
but in Robeson County, which had the highest number of infectious syphilis
cases in the country in 2000, and Columbus County, which usurped it in 2001.
Robeson is bisected by I-95, and Columbus is its eastern neighbor.
Difficult as wiping out syphilis may be, the best hope seems to lie with
Utley and others like him.
About a year ago, outside the window of his barber shop, Utley noticed a
woman crisscrossing the neighborhood, distributing condoms. They struck up a
conversation, and she asked if she could leave him several hundred to pass
out to the neighborhood. Sure, he said. Once he learned what she was doing,
he volunteered to transform his one-room shop into a syphilis testing site.
To draw people, the 33-year-old married father of two suggested free food.
Wake Human Services bought 20 pounds of filleted trout, and Utley fried it
on a Monday in November. About 100 people showed up, drawn in by the aroma.
Of 21 who took the blood test, one was positive.
That was proof that Utley, tall and broad-shouldered with a shaved head, had
accomplished something in those streets that may be rundown but are his.
"I know I'm not going anywhere," he said "I work in this community. I ain't
got nothing. I just wish everyone was clean like me."
http://www.newsobserver.com/sunday/news/Story/905005p-903779c.html
"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:3c66e331...@ca.news.verio.net...
1st_mississippi/mlk_is_a_poor_pet_nigger_it_never_answers_me
<fuc...@honkey.motherfuckers> wrote:
>sl...@ishipress.com (Sam Sloan) done wrote:
>>I considered filing an ethics complaint against you, but decided not to.
>
>Why de fuck not???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
>
>Spoilsport.
>
>--I love to suck dick while playing chess. :et's play chess
>Vote Morris Ahsley for Queer President-for-life
>USCF must pay Slavery Reparations to Nigger American Chess Players Now!
You are posting in alt flame niggers, do you want to be a pet nigger,
you can pick cotton or milk the cow, but never talk back to whites,
get a life motherfucker!
______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source
Ofergneezy II
Rev. Dr. Calvin Abu Hindoo Qusz, Jr
>You are posting in alt flame niggers, do you want to be a pet nigger,
>you can pick cotton or milk the cow, but never talk back to whites,
>get a life motherfucker!
I'se gonna shit wherever I wants to, cuz we is taking over the
*** United States Chess Federation ***
Adios, honkeys! No more chess for vomit-colored white people.
Sam Sloan
wrote:
>"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
>news:3c6724b...@ca.news.verio.net...
>
>-snip-
>
>> It is plainly apparent from the above that I never accused your son or
>> anybody else of cheating. It was you in fact who made that accusation.
>
>I accused my son of cheating? There enough spin on this one to make me
>dizzy? -grin- Others construed *your* comments as implying that my son was
>somehow involved in a cheating scandal.
>
>> More than that, in a subsequent posting on this subject, you
>> identified the 17 year old chess player in question. While you did not
>> provide his name, you did point to the website where his name could be
>> obtained.
>
>What a LOL irony, the site is the one you gave above! It's an USCF
>Executive Board official transcript.
>
>> You did not drop this subject. I did. I did not accuse anybody of
>> cheating.
>
>Right, only a "minor scandal" involving my son and a player who "tied for
>first" (my son tied for 1st) who should have been ineligible since he was a
>college student. If a person says 1 + 1 = ?, others will fill in the 2.
>
>Help refresh my memory. Why did you post this comment about my son in the
>first place? What was your intent?
>
>> You made the accusation that a 17-year-old player by name
>> had cheated.
>
>What are you talking about?
>
>>
>> I considered filing an ethics complaint against you, but decided not
>> to.
>
>And others urged me to file an ethics complaint against you, and I said no.
>I'm pleased we both did the right thing.
>
>George
Apparently, I did the wrong thing. I should have filed an ethics
complaint against you.
Here is a direct quote from you:
>There's one more part of the transcript worth mentioning. I have
replaced the name of the state with XXXXXX. The state mentioned in
the transcript is not Texas. I quote:
" 25 received, not only did he represent the Denker, he
OCTOBER 6-8, 2000
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
U.S. CHESS FEDERATION EXECUTIVE BOARD MEETING 200
1 had been playing in high school tournaments on a
2 national level, representing a certain high school in
3 [XXXXXX]."
To repeat, the transcript contains the name of the state and it is not
Texas. I maintain that a careful, unbiased reading of the transcript
would cause any reasonable person to conclude that the "controversy"
did not involve my son.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Now, to find out the name of the player whom you (not me) say was
cheating, one need only go to the USCF website at the transcript of
the OCTOBER 6-8, 2000 meeting, which is at
http://www.uschess.org/org/govern/ebtranscript001007.html
That transcript will show the name of the state of the student whom
you say was cheating. The state is Washington. Then, one need only
look up the results of the Denker to see who represented that state.
As to your claim that you "dropped this issue", I just went through
the Deja archives to find this quote and there were more than 100
postings on this subject, almost all of which were by you or inspired
by you. The record is clear that you brought up this subject again and
again over a period of months, just as you have brought it up again
today more than one year later.
Sam Sloan
Bruce Draney
>
> On 10 Feb 2002 11:26:06 -0600, Bruce Draney <bdr...@novia.net> wrote:
>
> > In many
> >ways, George's endorsement by Redman during the campaign may have
> >actually cost him votes rather than helped him.
> >
> >
> > Bruce
>
> One thing to be admired and respected about Bruce Draney was that Tim
> Redman offered him a bribe of a free all expenses paid trip to the
> USCF Headquarters in New Windsor, New York.
>
> Bruce declined the bribe offer, and for that reason the Redman Gang
> chose George John as their fourth candidate, instead of Bruce.
>
> I believe that George John did receive at least one free all expenses
> paid trip to New Windsor while Tim Redman was on the Board. George
> John accepted this.
>
> Sam Sloan
First Sam,
I don't really think I would call it a bribe. Last April in Kansas
City, I had been asked to give a major report on rescinding the
unpopular TLA increases. I was chairing a committee on the matter and
we had come up with several excellent alternatives. At the time I went
to Kansas City I was fully expecting at least 4 and possibly 5 votes in
favor of one of our plans. I was extremely disappointed that instead of
changing TLA's they merely put it off until I could come to New Windsor
and meet with George DeFeis in order to work out a compromise.
Since George is now gone and the matter has been solved, let's just
suffice to say that I don't really believe that Tim or George (D) not
(G), ever intended to follow through on reducing TLA fees. At the end
of the Framingham meetings, Bill, his wife, Frank Brady, George and I
went downstairs to discuss TLA's and let's just say that even at that
late hour, George was insisting that he wasn't going to reverse TLA fees
without a major squawk. I was a full hour late getting on the road to
Maine to visit relatives, but finally the meeting ended with Bill,
Brenda, Frank and myself agreeing that changes were going to be made
with or without George's support.
Had I gone in June last year to New Windsor, the plan was to put me up
in the Day's Inn or Super 8 or whatever the local hotel is called, and
pay for my trip there and back. I decided not to go that route for
several reasons, one was that I thought it was ridiculous to go to New
Windsor when George DeFeis and I and Tim Redman were all right there in
Kansas City. If we couldn't settle it in Kansas City, why would I think
we'd be able to settle it in New Windsor when an election where that was
a major issue was only a month away? Another reason I turned it down is
that I was running for the Board and it would appear very inappropriate
to be taking junkets to New Windsor at membership expense while also
attempting to get elected. The other reason I chose not to do it, is
that I felt the offer was made to shut me up and not to really solve the
problem.
I never considered it a bribe, but on the other hand, had I accepted, I
don't think very many people who found out about it would have respected
me a whole lot either. With the organization in financial trouble, I
don't believe that anyone would have been helped significantly by my
going to New Windsor just to meet with an ED who really didn't want to
change the policies.
Best Regards,
Bruce
George John
Sam,
> That transcript will show the name of the state of the student whom
> you say was cheating.
I normally don't respond to you for a very good reason. IMO, you spin,
twist, distort, omit, state that people said or did things they never said
or did, etc. IMO, it's not a productive use of my time to continue to
respond. It's likely not a productive use of other people's time to
continue reading this exchange either. So, this will most likely be my last
response to you.
The potential seemed to be there for others to misconstrue your comments
about my son. So I, as most fathers likely would do, responded to protect
my son's reputation, as he was completely without blame. I only pointed out
an additional portion of the official, public, posted USCF transcript that
would prove to others that my son was not the one involved in the
controversy and that your insinuation was without any merit. I even edited
out the state, because all that was necessary was to say it was not Texas.
I *never* accused anyone of cheating. I was concerned that others might
misconstrue your comments and think my son may have been possibly involved
in a cheating incident when this was most definitely not the case.
I note for the record you have not answered my questions about why you
posted what you did about my son.
Finally, come April 1st, if I think there is even the slightest chance there
will only be two people on the ballot for the Executive Board and that you
will be one of them, I promise I will fax a petition to Secretary Smith.
Before that date, I will need to read a statement from the USCF Secretary
that he has approved as official candidates at least two people (in
reasonable physical health) other than you, or I will submit a petition.
But you have assured me I need not worry my "little head" -grin- that there
will be only two candidates, so the above scenario is likely not going to
happen. -grin-
George
Bruce Draney
>
> Bruce Draney <bdr...@novia.net> wrote:
>
> >> Tom Dorsch and Edward Spring are both AOL users.
>
> > Wow. That really narrows it down Sam. Great detective work.
>
> Still it is relevant. How many AOL looosers even know that Usenet exists,
> given that they spend most of their lives in Chat rooms and WWW?
Do we know absolutely that this person is really an AOL user? That's
why I wondered if anyone had tried to send an e-mail to see if the
address was even legitimate? It's very possible that the address itself
is completely fake. The person may have just posted under the name
silversneak and used an AOL address that doesn't really exist.
Also, if you'll recollect, just a couple months ago, someone on this
forum stole your identity and started posting stuff trying to confuse
people or discredit you.
Someone with tons of enemies like Tom is certain to have plenty of
people out there who might use the opportunity to not only hurt Tom, but
also attack George John for whatever reason at the same time.
I'm not saying that Silversneak is not Tom, but I have no reason to
believe that Tom favors drug testing, that Tom hates George John and
that Tom is afraid to say what he thinks about people using his own
identity. I also see no particular motivation for Tom to suddenly start
anonymously attacking George John, while sparing the three people that
he dislikes or opposes the most in USCF.
Best Regards,
Bruce
Petrel
Bruce Draney wrote in message <3C674C...@novia.net>...
>li...@orc.net wrote:
>>
>> Bruce Draney <bdr...@novia.net> wrote:
>>
>> >> Tom Dorsch and Edward Spring are both AOL users.
>>
>> > Wow. That really narrows it down Sam. Great detective work.
>>
>> Still it is relevant. How many AOL looosers even know that Usenet exists,
>> given that they spend most of their lives in Chat rooms and WWW?
>
> Do we know absolutely that this person is really an AOL user?
We do. Here is a Silversneak header:
Path:
reader4.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!feeder.qis.ne
t!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol
.com!not-for-mail
Lines: 9
X-Admin: ne...@aol.com
From: silve...@aol.comspamless (Silversneak)
Newsgroups: rec.games.chess.politics
Date: 08 Feb 2002 17:22:45 GMT
References: <3C619D...@hotmail.com>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: Open Letter to Frank Niro
Message-ID: <20020208122245...@mb-cv.aol.com>
Xref: reader4.news.rcn.net rec.games.chess.politics:110852
The 'silve...@aol.comspamless' part is easily forged, but the
'audrey04.news.aol.com' part and the 'mb-cv.aol.com' part are clear evidence
that it is an AOL user.
However, there are an awful lot of AOL users, and I agree that it doesn't
prove very much.
p>
Paul Rubin
> The 'silve...@aol.comspamless' part is easily forged, but the
> 'audrey04.news.aol.com' part and the 'mb-cv.aol.com' part are clear evidence
> that it is an AOL user.
That part is also easy to forge, since it's way at the other end of
the path.
Petrel
Paul Rubin wrote in message <7xeljsz...@ruckus.brouhaha.com>...
The 'mb-cv.aol.com' part is in the Message-ID.
p>
Paul Rubin
> >That part is also easy to forge, since it's way at the other end of
> >the path.
>
> The 'mb-cv.aol.com' part is in the Message-ID.
The Message-ID is also trivial to forge.
Rev. Dr. Calvin Abu Hindoo Qusz, Jr
>complaint against you.
It's not too late. You can still do it.
P.S. It takes a real mensch to admit he done wrong.
Sam Sloan
postings George John has made over the past more than one year
regarding this subject matter will see that he is llying:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 04:41:58 GMT, "George John" <geo...@neosoft.com>
wrote:
>
>"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
>news:3c67463d...@ca.news.verio.net...
>
>Sam,
>
>> That transcript will show the name of the state of the student whom
>> you say was cheating.
>
>I normally don't respond to you for a very good reason. IMO, you spin,
>twist, distort, omit, state that people said or did things they never said
>or did, etc.
In fact, it is George John that "spin, twist, distort, omit, state
that people said or did things they never said or did, etc."
I have never once accused either the son of George John or the other
player of cheating. I have never even used the word "cheating" in any
of my postings. On the other hand, every time the subject comes up,
George John always uses the word "cheating" to describe what happened.
It is George John who is making the accusation of cheating, not me.
His motivation is obvious. The son of George John and the other boy
tied for first prize in the Denker Tournament of High School
Champions. The other player, although only 17 years old, was a college
student. George John obviously feels that the other player cheated and
therefore his son was the sole winner and did not merely tie for
first.
However, Eric Johnson, who was the USCF official in charge of the
event at that point in time, feels and states in a posting below that
the player from Washington was the proper player in the event. Thus,
what we really have here is George John saying that the Washington
player cheated and Eric Johnson saying that he did not.
In order to create the false impression that George John is a nice guy
and that I am the one making a false accusation, George John says over
and over again here and has said more than 20 times in the past that I
accused his son of cheating, when I did no such thing.
> IMO, it's not a productive use of my time to continue to
>respond. It's likely not a productive use of other people's time to
>continue reading this exchange either. So, this will most likely be my last
>response to you.
Good, but I do not believe it, since this has been one of your
favorite topics for more than one year regarding a tournament which
took place in August, 2000.
>The potential seemed to be there for others to misconstrue your comments
>about my son. So I, as most fathers likely would do, responded to protect
>my son's reputation, as he was completely without blame.
I see. And this explains why you keep bringing up this subject up over
and over again including yesterday when everybody else including me
had forgotten about this over one year ago.
I have eight children. If somebody accused my daughter of cheating and
I knew it was not true, I would respond but otherwise not say anything
unless somebody asked me about it. You, on the other hand, keep
bringing this subject up, when nobody including myself has accused
your son of cheating.
> I only pointed out
>an additional portion of the official, public, posted USCF transcript that
>would prove to others that my son was not the one involved in the
>controversy and that your insinuation was without any merit. I even edited
>out the state, because all that was necessary was to say it was not Texas.
The name of your son was mentioned in the transcript. The name of the
other player was not.
Anybody who checks the Deja archives will see that we have had this
same dialog before. All of the above is just a repeat of what has been
said many times perviously. There have been more than one hundred
postings on this subject and each time you are the one who brings this
up and re-starts it.
What you could have done was simply state that the other player was
not from Texas. That would have meant that there were 50 states to
chose from. Instead of that, you pointed to the exact line in the
transcript which shows that the player in question came from the State
of Washington, something which I did not know and which nobody else
would have known had you not pointed it out.
>I *never* accused anyone of cheating. I was concerned that others might
>misconstrue your comments and think my son may have been possibly involved
>in a cheating incident when this was most definitely not the case.
By saying over and over again that your son did not cheat, especially
when nobody has remotely accused your son of cheating, you are no
doubt creating the impression in the minds of some that your son
possibly actually did cheat.
>I note for the record you have not answered my questions about why you
>posted what you did about my son.
If you go back to my original posting, which you keep quoting out of
context, you will find the answer.
I noted that you had not posted to this newsgroup in a few months. I
was wondering if this was the reason.
>Finally, come April 1st, if I think there is even the slightest chance there
>will only be two people on the ballot for the Executive Board and that you
>will be one of them, I promise I will fax a petition to Secretary Smith.
I see. Now you have provided yourself with the back door to create an
excuse to run for election.
I and several others have believed all along that you are planning to
run for election and your frequent statements that you are not running
are just another George John lie, especially since you did the same
thing last year, saying that you were not running when actually you
were.
>Before that date, I will need to read a statement from the USCF Secretary
>that he has approved as official candidates at least two people (in
>reasonable physical health) other than you, or I will submit a petition.
But to do that, you are obviously going to have to collect the
signatures in advance, right?
>But you have assured me I need not worry my "little head" -grin- that there
>will be only two candidates, so the above scenario is likely not going to
>happen. -grin-
>
>George
Four people that I know about have indicated that they intend to run
for election. There may be others. However, with this statement by
George John above, there are now five.
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
> I'm not saying that Silversneak is not Tom, but I have no reason to
>believe that Tom favors drug testing,
Tom Dorsch does favor drug testing. Back when he was posting, he
posted in favor of drug testing many times. Jim Eade, who is Tom's
close friend, also favors drug testing.
> that Tom hates George John and
>that Tom is afraid to say what he thinks about people using his own
>identity. I also see no particular motivation for Tom to suddenly start
>anonymously attacking George John, while sparing the three people that
>he dislikes or opposes the most in USCF.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Bruce
The statements by "Edward Spring" are completely wacko and far beyond
anything Tom Dorsch said publicly.
Sam Sloan
Silversneak
Your dying to run. Your unable to control yourself.
You want it so bad you can't shit straight.
Everybody could see this coming all along no matter
how many times you weasled and weaved.
Edward Spring.
Loren St. Vincent
> "Wickdeer3" <wick...@cs.comKillSpam> wrote in message
> news:20020209220809...@mb-dh.news.cs.com...
>
> > A friend of mine quit AOL, and a year later someone else was using his old
> > screanname.
>
If you delete a name from AOL, it remains in your file for 6
months: if it is not renewed (ie; pulled up and used), it is flushed
from your files and open for use by others...
LSV
> Wick,
>
> Thanks for the information. I'm going to assume there is no easy way to
> determine how long an account has been held. That would of course be
> interesting to know. My current guess is that Tom Dorsch or an imitator had
> this account in December, 2000, but based on what Bruce and now you have
> told me, someone else now has this account. The fact that some of the
> targets of the old and new Silverstreak are the same may or may not be a
> coincidence.
>
> Regardless, I apologize to Tom Dorsch for suggesting the new Silverstreak
> may be he.
>
> George