Clock purchase questions
Hollins
I've been researching clocks and would appreciate feedback on a few
issues. Forgive my newbie ignorance.
Mainly, I am looking for recommendations for specific brands and
models. I'd also like input on:
Analog vs. Digital
For analog: mechanical vs. quartz.
I have played enough five minute games to recognize the need for
durability, reliablility, and accuracy in these devices, but I am still
having trouble coming to terms with the fact that a good one will likely
set me back $70 or more. As a mechanical engineer I have trouble
believing that I'd be getting my money's worth with one of the top
quality clocks, which for the most part appear to be constructed
primarily of plastic. If I'm way off base here, please be gentle in
setting me straight, but it seems to me someone could build a reliable,
easy to read clock that can take a few years of reqular play for thirty
bucks or so. I would think that except for a couple of robust buttons
and hard shell, the components for a digital model should only cost a
few dollars.
David Mathys Jr.
Pretty funny comment. I think everyone who has bought a chess clock feels
the same way!!! You are exactly right, they should not cost so much, but
unfortunately they do. Personally, I prefer the wood Jerger clocks over
digitals. I just don't like to see my time counting down in a tournament
game. A normal clock face "feels" better. However, speed chess is better
with a digital clock.
--
David "The Mangler" Mathys
2 time US Amateur Chess Champ
Hollins <hollin...@mindspring.com> wrote in article
<352866C0...@mindspring.com>...
Ron Moskovitz
I think everybody blanches the first time they see how much chess clocks
cost. I mean, let's face it, it doesn't seem like an analog clock
should cost more than $20 or $30.
I've had BHB analog for three years now, and I'm quite happy with it.
On the other hand, if you're using it primarily (or only) for blitz,
you might want to go digital. An analog which isn't designed for
blitz is hard to set exactly fairly.
(I like having an analog with me. Occasionally at a tournament somebody
will misprogram his digital, or the move count will get off, and then
you can just pull out the analog and say "Here, let's just set this
and not wory about it." But for blitz the precision of a digital is
nice to have.)
-Ron
Jack Jeffery
I own a FIDE Digital Game Timer because many tournaments now have a "sudden
death" secondary time control in which **all** of the remaining moves must
be made in a given time period, usually an hour. (This secondary time
control usually immediately follows the primary time control. For example,
a recent tournament I played in had a primary time control of 50 moves in 2
hours, and a secondary time control of sudden death in one hour.)
With all the advantages of sudden death time controls, unfortunately ugly
things can happen to determine the outcome of tournament games which have
nothing to do with chess. For example, I have seen games where a player,
short on time in sudden death, loses merely because his opponent was marking
time in an endgame just to make a move--**any move**--and keep his
opponent's clock running. Eventually, after just making meaningless moves,
the player short on time simply runs out of time and loses.
To avoid this ugly and cheesy scenario, tournament directors sometimes will
allow a "delay" (usually 5 seconds) in sudden death which means the clock
doesn't actually start counting down until after a 5 second delay. This
approach minimizes these ridiculous time scrambles.
But, in order to take advantage of this "gift" of a delay in sudden death,
you'll need a clock that can implement the delay. You can't implement a
delay on an analog clock.
And, some digital clocks don't have the delay feature. The newer digital
clocks such as the FIDE Digital Game Timer, the Saitek digital timer, and
the USCF GameTime clock all have the delay mode.
BTW, I ordered my FIDE Digital Game Timer from Inside Chess. Check it out
at http://merch.tcc.net/ice/product.asp?sku=C1112DC
Hope this helps.
Jack Jeffery
Ron Moskovitz wrote in message ...
Steve Moody
The reason chess clocks are so expensive (in my opinion) has everything
to do with supply and demand and very little to do with cost to the
manufacturer. The market (demand) for chess clocks is not that large
(how often does a chessplayer purchase a new clock?), so the prices are
driven up. Anyone who wants to make a chess clock and sell it for a
little above cost ($30-40, if that's accurate) can do so. Heck, they
could probably corner the market if it was a good clock! Why hasn't
anyone done this? I don't know... maybe making so few clocks drives the
costs and the price up... but I think it has more to do with the fact
that if you know that you can sell 1000 clocks at $30 or 500 clocks at
$100, which will you choose?
Anyway, from reading this newsgroup for a few months, I have gathered
that the two best clocks are the Saitek and the Chronos. I have no
personal experience with either, but these two clocks are always being
touted as the best.
Eduardo Suastegui
Steve Moody wrote:
> The reason chess clocks are so expensive (in my opinion) has everything
> to do with supply and demand and very little to do with cost to the
> manufacturer. The market (demand) for chess clocks is not that large
> (how often does a chessplayer purchase a new clock?), so the prices are
> driven up.
Not according to my economics professor. As demmand goes up, supply staying
equal, prices go up. As demmand goes down, supply staying equal, prices go
down. Perhaps what you meant to say is that the supply is relatively low,
given the fact that the demand is low. A decreasing supply with demmand
staying roughly equal would drive prices up.
> Anyone who wants to make a chess clock and sell it for a
> little above cost ($30-40, if that's accurate) can do so. Heck, they
> could probably corner the market if it was a good clock! Why hasn't
> anyone done this? I don't know... maybe making so few clocks drives the
> costs and the price up... but I think it has more to do with the fact
> that if you know that you can sell 1000 clocks at $30 or 500 clocks at
> $100, which will you choose?
I think the real reason why clocks like Chronos are above $100.00 can be
understood by seeing why nice digital watches, which one might argue are
similar in complexity to the fancy chess clocks, are about the same price.
For example, a nice Casio G-Shock diving watch is about $120.00 USD. The
electronics in such clocks as the Chronos clock are nothing to sneeze at (by
the way I do not work for Chronos), and I think the cost of the technology
is really what keeps the price up. In addition, there's a lot to be said for
durability when it comes to a chess clock, so as you spend more in materials
and mechanisms (like the plungers) to make a clock last through a life of
blitz play, the price will go up. So I don't think that putting together a
cheap chess digital clock would be such an easy thing. If you are not
careful, you might end up with the reputation of a Yugo or Hunday.
> Anyway, from reading this newsgroup for a few months, I have gathered
> that the two best clocks are the Saitek and the Chronos. I have no
> personal experience with either, but these two clocks are always being
> touted as the best.
For the money, the Chronos is excellent. If you do not have the money, save
up for it instead of buying an inferior clock. As an electrical engineer who
worked for 5 years on building durable digital electronics for military
applications I really appreciate what these guys have done with the Chronos.
--
Eduardo Suastegui
"Once upon a time, chess players would gather at coffee houses.
Now, they ponder chess over a cup of Java."
Remove the 101 when replying via email.
Nightman
Eduardo Suastegui <esche...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>For the money, the Chronos is excellent. If you do not have the money, save
>up for it instead of buying an inferior clock. As an electrical engineer who
>worked for 5 years on building durable digital electronics for military
>applications I really appreciate what these guys have done with the Chronos.
>--
>Eduardo Suastegui
>"Once upon a time, chess players would gather at coffee houses.
>Now, they ponder chess over a cup of Java."
>Remove the 101 when replying via email.
Do you happen to know if the Chronos has added the "delay" feature to
its available programs yet?
Thanks.
Steve Moody
Eduardo Suastegui wrote:
>
> Steve Moody wrote:
>
> > The reason chess clocks are so expensive (in my opinion) has everything
> > to do with supply and demand and very little to do with cost to the
> > manufacturer. The market (demand) for chess clocks is not that large
> > (how often does a chessplayer purchase a new clock?), so the prices are
> > driven up.
>
> Not according to my economics professor. As demmand goes up, supply staying
> equal, prices go up. As demmand goes down, supply staying equal, prices go
> down. Perhaps what you meant to say is that the supply is relatively low,
> given the fact that the demand is low. A decreasing supply with demmand
> staying roughly equal would drive prices up.
>
You're absolutely right. I was talking about the *total* demand, not a
*change* in demand.
Eduardo Suastegui
Nightman wrote:
> Eduardo Suastegui <esche...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >For the money, the Chronos is excellent. If you do not have the money, save
> >up for it instead of buying an inferior clock. As an electrical engineer who
> >worked for 5 years on building durable digital electronics for military
> >applications I really appreciate what these guys have done with the Chronos.
>
> >--
>
> Do you happen to know if the Chronos has added the "delay" feature to
> its available programs yet?
>
> Thanks.
My clock has several modes where one can set a delay. For example, you can set a
delay of 5 seconds, and if you make your move within 5 seconds, you lose no time
off your clock. I have heard discussion of a "Bronstein" time delay, which is
implemented in the Saitek clock, for example. As far as I can tell, there is no
Bronstein time on the Chronos.